themightyant

@RentedPanda to be fair EA Play has only ever been included with Ultimate, this hasn’t changed as far as I’m aware

@Fiendish-Beaver True, but they could say games that come to Standard will come after X months so that we can make an informed decision as consumers whether that tier is for us. As it stands we don't know many things about Xbox's strategy because it changes with ever release. That isn't good for us consumers.

@AccessibleDaydream Because their communication is also on a case-by-case basis like everything else

Love the visual style. Thanks for the heads up.

@RentedPanda EA Play is ONLY on Ultimate it's in their FAQ.

@Kezelpaso @Fiendish-Beaver No official word from Microsoft but Parris Lily did ask on Twitter when releases would enter Game Pass Standard as he felt it needed to be consistent (3, 6, 12 months) for us to make an informed decision as consumers. (Which I agree with) To which Jez Corden of Windows Central replied:

they told me case by case basis between 6 and 12 months and sometimes longer.

Obviously take that with a huge grain of salt, plans can change or may still be being debated, but Jez is right far more often than he's wrong, especially about Xbox.

Always wanted to see what all Neon White hype was about, as on paper it doesn't sound like something i'd like but people rave about it. Game Pass to the rescue!

@theduckofdeath Please let me know how extending your sub to 2028 goes, I was under the impression the max was 3 years (which I'm at currently), I have another 6-8 months worth of points saved up and would rather spend them now before rewards rates rise and before we can only max 13 months.

@Titntin Well said. I don't think there is a shortage of these games at all, they just aren't the big name games anymore.

That said I would like to see AAA developers more often use all their skills and experience to make smaller games with great gameplay loops rather than focussing on visuals, fidelity and stories without them having to leave and go independent. Perhaps incentivise devs similar to a sabbatical e.g. work on 3 titles for us and X amount of you can band together to make a smaller thing. Might even help retention.

@BHPM Completely agree just enjoy wherever you play. I get that these type of articles can rally the fanboys, but that's more on the fanboys, doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported on. Fact is it's big news, even on PlayStation. What happens on one platform often impacts the others indirectly.

As for talking too much... don't we all, lol. But it's a forum, no stress.

@BHPM of course Push Square is publishing an article, this is the biggest gaming news of the week and whether Game Pass or its business model succeeds will indirectly affect all gamers. It would be weirder if they DIDN’T post anything really.

They are also smart enough to realise this will be the most talked about topic all week and as a clicks / engagement based website capitalise on that. I think the angle they have presented it as is fair. “Was Sony right to not make games day 1 on PS+?”

As an enthusiast it’s still good value at £15 a month as I play 20+ games a year on the service and try many more at no risk. But it also needs to be good value to people who play a lot less else they will unsubscribe. That is a problem because if there are less subscribers they will either have to increase prices yet again, or reduce value offered (costs), or both to make the same returns. That is a problem with the subscription model.

European Commission documents showed that 70-80% were already on Ultimate.

@WhiteRabbit "Pay more with Game Pass" is their new slogan

Not only are games no longer Day 1 on the Standard tier, but there will be some games that are exclusive to Ultimate too, AND they want to charge you more for it... LMAO.

They might as well scream "we only want you to buy Ultimate".

This has all the subtlety of when they tried to get rid of Xbox Live Gold by doubling prices. I doubt they will backtrack on this one within 48 hours this time though.

@Foxx_64740 I'm with you that it is still a good deal for me. But you must SURELY understand most people won't have played anything like 18 games in a year, let alone in 6 months. Value is subjective.

The trouble is they can only keep charging what we see as a reasonable price if there are many subscribers, that's how these subscription models work, so if people who play less than us stop subscribing they will have to either further raise prices, reduce value, or both. Ultimately this isn't good for anyone.

@dreadful We don't know. They have haven't specified. What we do know is that there will be some games that will ONLY be on Ultimate according to their FAQ. I assume other games will come after different amount of times, whatever amount of FOMO they can get away with without losing too many subscribers.

@FraserG @NEStalgia @Jenkinss @Weebleman Sorry to be the bearer of more bad news, and add even more fuel to the fire, but it seems not all games will come to the new Game Pass Standard tier and will be exclusive to Ultimate. From the FAQ.

Ultimate also includes day one titles, specific entries to the Game Pass Ultimate library, access to EA Play, Xbox Cloud Gaming, Perks, Quests, and discounts on games in the Game Pass library

ALSO

Xbox Game Pass for Console may have select titles that are not included with Xbox Game Pass Standard.

@WhiteRabbit he's contractually obligated to mention Sony in almost every post

@NEStalgia I agree the value line will be different for everyone. For me personally it's still OK, but I play a lot. But the trouble is subscriptions only mange to keep costs down if they get many subscribers, if they keep raising prices they will lose many at the bottom and then the only other options are to either further raise prices, reduce value, or both. It becomes a vicious circle if they aren't careful.

Obviously today is the bad news day, but it will be interesting to see how this pans out over the coming months and years. If I step away and look at it more holistically and put on my business hat then this actually makes a lot more sense from a business perspective than their existing tiers. Especially offering a version of Game Pass AND online that isn't the top tier.

As it felt inevitable, i'm not as shocked as some. I'm especially interested to see how long people have to wait for games to hit the new Standard tier, and if that is all games.

@GamingFan4Lyf If you have MS rewards to spare it's worth stacking even more now before they hike prices. I did this the other day back up to 2027.

FYI For GP Ultimate subscribers it's actually better value to get 3 months CORE as a reward for 15,000 points which currently gets converted to 50 days ultimate (300 points per day), than it is to get 3 months Ultimate for 35,000 (around 380 points per day) but this could change any time.

Completely agree here. They are two-faced in their messaging. While I accept business plans sometimes change and SOME allowances need to be made for that, the truth is they make too many statements they then have to renege on.

Ryan Mcaffrey always says Xbox love "stepping on rakes" and I think that is spot on. Every time they are up and having some good press they love to shoot themselves in the foot. While I still think Microsoft are in a good position going forward... IF they can deliver on the games with all their studios... this doesn't help.

"Day 1 with Game Pass*" also comes with too many caveats. e.g. * Day 1 only on Ultimate and only some games, for others you have to pay extra to get it on Day 1, Game Pass Ultimate subscribers will get it on Day 4.

It's not a good look even if, as we have been saying for a while, it was inevitable.

That all said, while no one likes a price hike, how you feel about it will be subjective. For me personally it's not too bad. Not least because I haven't paid for Game Pass in years and have it stacked till 2027 through MS Rewards. In reality I don't think I will have paid a penny for it at all this gen. But it's going to be both a shock, and a time of reckoning, when I do probably in 2028/29 at £20 / $25 a month. FYI My last direct payment was £1.00 on 19 June 2019.

The biggest problem with this is for existing Console tier users. They already had a price hike this time last year which means getting access to Day 1 games has effectively DOUBLED in just over a year.

As of June 2023 it cost £8 / $10 to get Day 1 games, going forwards it will be £15 / $20. Double in the US and almost that elsewhere. For Ultimate subscribers it's still a price hike but more manageable.

@user0 regular console tier is gone, they say that in the article

@Weebleman @NEStalgia Yup this was inevitable, and a far way away from what Microsoft said previously, made worse as it’s only a year since the last price hike. Is that what this is now? An annual price hike?

On the flip side £15 a month still makes it good value to ME but I play more games on Game Pass than most (around 20 a year, plus many more I try and drop) and already had Ultimate. But for those who play less, or were on the Console tier, it’s a large price hike and it’s a less enticing prospect.

Gotta agree with @Moby though that the doomsayers will be out, the sky isn’t falling because of this, but they will say it is.

It sucks but there’s still room for nuance

I've said it before but console sales aren't that important a metric for Microsoft. They are spread out now across Xbox, PC, Cloud etc. that looking at just 'consoles sold' isn't that helpful.

Of course there is a low threshold whereby major third parties might start to stop development for Xbox (we already see it with a few smaller games/studios), but I don't think we are close to that so far. As log as they stay over that threshold things look bright. If you look at other metrics like revenue and profit Xbox/Microsoft Gaming is doing great.

Personally I think they are pretty well positioned for the future.

With a different studio and without visionary Ken Levine at the helm they have a lot to prove. Fingers crossed it's great.

@FarmDog08 I've played entire games on Xcloud, at times you forget entirely you are streaming. Steam Deck is a pretty good handheld for it, but i'd probably wait to see if Xbox has a unit coming out, they seem to be teasing it.

The biggest problem right now is it's only Game Pass games not purchased library. They have said this is something they will change, at which point it becomes far more useful as you can continue any game, almost anywhere.

I gave it a try on a Fire 4K stick and was mostly impressed. It wouldn't be my first choice, and I couldn't play twitch games like Halo or Forza on it, but for anything slower it was fine and a good backup.

But of course as ever with game streaming your mileage may vary, it's too dependant on individual setups.

@FarmDog08 It's not really about 'fast' internet, even a 20 Meg connection can stream games at a similar level to faster connections. It's more about the latency of your network infrastructure, distance to server and other factors. Having a CONSISTENT connection with as low a ping as possible is much more important that raw speed for game streaming. Though a little speed overhead might help if you hit a rough patch.

I mean it has "failed game coming to Game Pass" written all over it, and I'm all for it, it's a great way for a game to try and find an audience. It didn't seem like it was a bad game, just a 6 or 7/10 releasing amidst a lot of other better games. I'm sure some will have fun with it.

@johnK Thankfully great games aren't judged by their graphics.

Surprised not to see Bastion or Braid on this list! Shadow Complex, Mark of the Nina and Dust: An Elysian Tail also personal favourites not featured.

@Markatron84 If memory serves correctly they had to increase the filesize limit on Arcade games due to State of Decay. I think it was max. 1GB and they increased it to 2GB

I'd like to see it bought back, but they got rid of it for sensible reasons at the time. Xbox One was struggling to match PS4 in performance they needed to free up every system resource they could to give developers a bit more in games.

But to be honest i've got so used to multi-tasking with a tablet or phone that I doubt i'd actually use it much now.

Glad you mentioned Split/Second that was always more my jam, but both were good.

@johnK People are so quick to jump on that bandwagon. It's been delayed on PS5 too and runs like ass on PC. It's a broken game in all formats. Numerous reports show ways it has been programmed really poorly with modders highlighting so many inefficiencies.

We used to run competitions and this happens FAR more frequently than you might expect. I think most prizes went to the second or third "winner". I suspect a lot of people thought the message was a scam.

@datamonkey Have there been a number saying that? If so I missed it, do you have a source. I HAVE seen devs say it was harder to develop for and hit the targets they want, but that's not quite the same thing as "The S is holding back the ps5/X".

Not looking for beef, just accuracy.

It's only OK now. I don't bother with all the Bing search rewards anymore since they nerfed it, it simply isn't worth the time commitment for the PENNIES you make back, even if those pennies add up over time. But I take what I can get on Xbox doing what I would be doing anyway, just playing games.

But I can't complain I've had over 5 years of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, am stacked till July 2027 and still have 6+ months to redeem. By the time I have to pay again I will likely have earned a few more years. It will a bit of a shock when I do have to pay for it again.

@Titntin Blue Dragon 2 would be an insta-buy!

@Titntin The Switch is not just a handheld is is also a full console attached to the same TVs as series S.

But the Switch was only one line of my argument, not the crux of it. The main point is that the vast majority of lower end PC's with their slower hard drives, less VRAM and more are holding back game dev far more than Series S ever has. But I seem to have angered some people with this view.

Classy move. Always nice to receive recognition.

@InterceptorAlpha There's some truth in what you say, but I still don't think the Series S holds back development as much as lower specced PC's. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Happy gaming.

@InterceptorAlpha Not confused in the slightest. LOL. While you are absolutely right that Microsoft has a specific parity clause, PC simply doesn't need one because developers will almost always develop games that work on the widest range of PC hardware (within reason). That means low to mid range PC hardware. They don't have to have an explicit clause because it is implicitly necessary in order to make money back, especially on graphically demanding/expensive games.

Go and have a look at Steam's hardware survey for instance and you will see that the VAST majority of gamers are playing on low to mid end GPU's, CPUs etc. Well over 50% of them are using XX60 cards, equivalents OR LOWER, most are several generations old. Hell the 2019 low-end GTX 1650 is the second most used GPU on Steam.

• 72% have 8GB VRAM or less.
• 66% have their monitor at 1080p or lower

... developers aren't going to ignore all those users

For more evidence: we know what PCs CAN do, every now and again we get something like Cyberpunk's Overdrive Ray Tracing mode that has to be seen to be believed. Yet almost no games are built like this... for very sensible business reasons, only a tiny percentage of the audience have PCs that can run it, and consoles can't.

Meanwhile most of the best looking games on the market, things like Alan Wake 2 or Hellblade 2 run fine enough on Series S albeit without all the bells and whistles.

I know it's popular round here to bash Series S and say "it holds back the Series X", and in a FEW isolated cases that might be the case, but in FAR more cases it will be lower spec or legacy hardware elsewhere holding us all back.

@Cikajovazmaj There you are calling it a "mess" again on Switch. To you or I who have more refined tastes perhaps, but many are fine with Series S. THAT is the point, gaming is FAR wider than us, we are the minority. Most are happily playing on the Switch, Series S or potato PC not caring about one bit about resolutions, frame rates etc.

@Cikajovazmaj Very subjective calling Series S games on UE5 a "mess". To YOUR eyes perhaps, and to pedants like Digital Foundry, who I like, but also make mountains out of molehills. But to many Series S is fine, it's good enough. Many don't need the game to be graphically superior they just want to play games. Hence one reason why the Nintendo Potato Switch is so popular. Low frame rates, low resolutions etc. don't bother many gamers especially if there is a cheaper option. That's the reality even if not popular here.

(Me personally I prefer higher res, higher frame rates, hence I have a Series X, but we're in the minority)

I agree Series S has some limitations, but so does Series X or any console. As for "Portable PC devices have room to iterate" that's true, but only for those willing to constantly upgrade their hardware constantly. Developers will still be targeting low end PC's, where the bulk of the PC market is, for years to come. This holds us back far more than the Series S ever has.

@nomither6 And low end PC and Handhelds like Steam Deck will be holding it back for the next 4 years. Series S is fine.

Obviously not all markets are equal but it is interesting to see Series S outselling Series X in Japan too. Obviously these are only "estimated" figures but studies in major territories in the west by analysts have said the same. It may get some grief here but Series S is brilliant for non-enthusiasts.

Always seemed over ambitious, that's a LONG time to commit. Look at Skywind or Skyblivion, they're still in development over a decade later. Hopefully they'll get there eventually but it's a long long road.

It's not a bad game, but if you have an Xbox or PC Forza Horizon is simply better. Still good for players on other platforms.

Depends what we are talking about. First party has been disappointing so far.

But across all games more have released I want to play than I can keep up with, so it's not a shortage of games overall. And Game Pass keeps delivering.

So i'm more than happy enough, I don't care if games are first or third party as long as good games keep coming, and I am enjoying them.

@Th3_Highlander It does, but that's the bad side, there are plenty of upsides to their work too.