@HonestHick As I said above I didn’t read Phil’s reaction to the Steam comment the same at all. What else could he do except laugh, it was a throw away statement by Destin AFTER Phil had already commented, he can’t confirm it either way. He also said Shuhei Yoshida was one of his best friends in the industry, does that mean Xbox is merging with PlayStation? You can read anything into things like this.
While I think Steam on Xbox is possible, I just think it’s improbable, they could sell a console and never see another penny from buyers. If they were to sell a console for profit instead they would have to add at least £200 to the series x price and likely be $100, $200 or more than the competition. How did that work for the Xbox One, Dreamcast, or PS3?
That all said I AM excited that Microsoft is shaking up the industry and forging their own path, I think that’s both interesting and sensible business considering the position they find themselves in. But I’m also worried about where that leaves console gamers in future. I think you can feel both. As I keep saying Microsoft Gaming can thrive but Xbox, as we know it, can fail. I sincerely hope that doesn’t happen but I think it’s a risk they are taking with this publish everywhere strategy.
@fatpunkslim I'm not saying Xbox doesn't have any exclusives, it does, but it's typically been far less than on PlayStation. As I said look at the number of games on each platform, or the GOTY list, it's not close. The list you put out is nice, but some of those likely aren't even coming till 2026 or maybe later, and I suspect, with their new approach most will be multi-platform now.
@HonestHick That's a good point re:Store 30% that COULD mix things up. However I believe Xbox & PlayStation are far less likely to lose, or if they do will not have to change their rates as much because they sell their consoles at a loss when ALL factors like R&D, marketing etc. are included and not just cost of materials vs. wholesale price. Whereas Apple etc. make gross profits on their devices.
Additionally unlike phones, games consoles are not seen as essential to life, they are primarily entertainment which changes how the courts should view this, they aren't all in the same position and shouldn't all be treated the same.
Interesting how you interpreted that from Phil on Destin's show. I'll go back and take another look, but I don't think Phil did give anything away, he was more smiling at Destin 'trying' to squeeze some juice. (i think Destin said something like "it's confirmed" at that point)
But more broadly, two excellent points. Things can change quickly.
You make some interesting points that each have a hint of truth, and I want to agree with some of it, but there's also plenty glaringly obvious untruths in your comment e.g.
Do you REALLY believe it's "already the case" that Xbox has more exclusives than PlayStation? Utter nonsense. It's hard to get a precise number but fan curated lists online suggest there have been 841 games published on PS5 and just 601 on Xbox Series. It's not close.
You say fewer and fewer third-party publishers want to make exclusive games for a single platform, and I agree TO AN EXTENT, but PlayStation is the first console they make for. Look at the GOTY 2024 at The Game Awards, at that time all 6 were available on PS5, 4 on PC, 3 on Xbox, 1 on Switch.
Xbox DOESN'T have "true backwards compatibility", it's emulation that only works on a small proportion of games. i.e Around 6% of (OG) Xbox games (approx. 63 of 996 games) and around 29% of Xbox 360 games (approx. 632 of 2155 games). Only Xbox One games are truly backwards compatible, most of them except Kinect.
Look I agree Xbox is in a good position, and as a publisher they are doing the right thing. I think their console is great, I love Game Pass, but I think they are selling their console gamers short by losing exclusives, even though as a gamer who wants more people to be able to play games I am partially happy they are doing it. I think Microsoft gaming will THRIVE, but I worry for the console side of the business and the gamers who will be punished because of it.
P.S. Oh and i'm still waiting for a source on 5% and 12%
@Kaloudz I agree the market is heading that way, but not quickly.
See my post above #50 for why Microsoft and Sony are in different positions and don't need to do the same thing. They SHOULD be doing different strategies because the focus of their businesses is now different. Xbox is more a publisher making money from their own games, PlayStation is more a platform making money from other people's games on their console.
BTW I don't agree with ALL the doom and gloom around Xbox (the brand), I think Microsoft is making the right calls and it will make them a LOT of money. But I am on the fence about whether Xbox (the console) does well or even survives much past the next-gen. While I think it's unlikely I do think Microsoft it taking risks that could backfire for people who like consoles only.
I think the key point most people are missing is that Sony and Microsoft simply AREN'T in the same position anymore. By buying ABK and Zenimax Xbox are now one of the largest publishers in the world, PlayStation Studios are not.
Microsoft make more money through first party sales (so you want to sell on as many places as possible) whereas Sony make most of their money through third party sales on PSN (so they want as many people on PlayStation as possible). Therefore they need different strategies. What is right for one isn't necessarily right for the other.
Moreover Sony has sold 2.2X the number of consoles and that gap is widening. With that many Studios AND a much lower number of consoles sold Xbox HAS to sell on multiple platforms to make a reasonable profit. Sony does not HAVE to, not yet.
@Millionski The key point is Sony doesn't make make most of their money from first party games. They make most of their money from third party software sold on PSN... ESPECIALLY Microtransactions.
For Sony to make more money they need to attract people to PlayStation & PSN, and having the widest selection of games many that aren't available elsewhere on console is the best way to do that.
Microsoft are in a different position. They are now one of the biggest publishers. The same rules don't apply to each.
Re: Xbox. I agree 30M units is enough this gen. But what if the next one sells much more slowly, especially around launch? Somewhere there is a line where 3rd party will start to tail off.
@Kaloudz I think you are wrong here. Sony have no need to do this. Their business financials work as it stands and crucially Sony have much less to gain. What do I mean?
Sony has sold more than 71 million PS5s, whereas Xbox has sold around 32 million Xbox Series consoles. In other words Xbox increases their potential console market by a whopping 222% if they publish on PS5. That's huge.
Whereas Sony only gain 45% publishing on Xbox. It's still sizeable, but the amount of brand damage you do to your console by not having exclusives is probably not worth the cost for Sony.
They aren't in the same situation. For Microsoft this is the smart play, but not for Sony.
@Kaloudz I suspect one of the agreements with Microsoft when they gave them a pass to release BG3 without split-screen AT LAUNCH on Xbox is that they would work on it and bring it later.
Most development problems like this can be solved with time. Time to refactor code to make it more efficient, time to optimise etc. Give them another year and a half and they'd probably get it working on Switch!
@Fiendish-Beaver I'm not sure hell needs to freeze over before PlayStation games appear on Xbox, but they do need to be doing bad financially, which they aren't right now. Not happening anytime soon.
FY 2024 is looking super strong with OI up 32.5% in Q1 and up 183.8% in Q2. This is all publicly available on their investor portal e.g. Q2 financials here (page 8).
@fatpunkslim Sony's profit margins have been low for a few years but it was around 6.8% on average for 2 years (FY2022 & FY 2023). But their last quarter Q2 FY2024 was up to 12.95% along with record profits & record income, they are doing fine and don't really need to do this, they sell enough consoles that console + PC should still be profitable for a while yet.
Totally agree with him. There are so many games I don't know if i'd like, maybe it's a genre I'm not keen on, or reviews were average, but with Game Pass you can try for yourself. It makes my gaming life richer and more varied.
I thought Kena: Bridge of Spirits was wonderful, apart from a few brutal difficulty spikes on bosses that didn't really fit with the rest of the vibe of the game.
It's getting mixed reviews so far. There's definitely something good in there, but seems like it's a bit rough around the edges too. That sounds worth trying to me. Beauty of Game pass
Why would they? By my understanding it's the better selling SKU. But more importantly how many games have ACTUALLY had a real problem running on the Series S? I'd posit less than 10. That doesn't mean it isn't work to get it working, but so is it to get it onto Steam Deck, low powered PC etc.
The idea that Series S seriously holds back the Series X is overblown in all but a minority of cases.
@BacklogBrad I agree to an extent. But when people used to say "Xbox has no games" it was never what they really meant. What they meant was "Xbox has no exclusive games" because when weighing up which console to buy you would of course look at what games are available on a system, and crucially what games aren't, this was mostly first party exclusives.
If Xbox are going to publish their games everywhere than I think they will continue to lose that round even if they are one of the largest publishers in gaming (Tencent still dwarf's them in most metrics I believe)
That said I agree with you that "Xbox's" future is bright, but I would be a bit more specific and say as a publisher Xbox / Microsoft Gaming's future is bright, but as a console Xbox's future is a bit more hazy.
Lastly totally agree that Sony need to sort some things out, but with their entrenched playerbase and market share I doing think they are in as much trouble (from a console perspective) as Xbox. Though I hope they all find their own niche and thrive, only time will tell.
Even PlayStation is in the red with all their 1st parties games because they do not sell enough.
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Because the insomniac leak strongly proves otherwise. It showed most Sony first party games were making healthy profits for now, but as the cost to make games goes up those profits will shrink.
But that ISN’T the same as being in the red. They are still making profits on most first party games (though obviously some occasionally fail, that is normal.) The difference is their profit margins on these games are shrinking and in order to increase those margins they need to publish on more places like PC.
But that is different to them being “in the red”, don’t mistake the two, they aren’t the same.
@Weebleman I agree that there’s a type of fan who is using things like profits as a **** measuring contest in their boorish console wars. Much like the 12TF vs 10TF, or other childish nonsense, basically cherry picking ANY metric to wave around as a measuring stick to ‘prove’ they are right. That’s sad and childish.
But, as a bit of a finance guy, I do think finances matter to show the health of a business. Not least that it means studios get to keep making the games we play, but more importantly for me, when they aren’t as financially constrained creatives usually have more freedom to make the games THEY want to make. Whereas tight finances usually stifle creativity and lead to safe sequels and other less interesting games.
@TheEstablishment you are mostly right about revenue, and that Microsoft Gaming can make a lot more money and be more successful by going Multiplatform. I agree with that.
But most gamers aren’t shareholders, we don’t care too much about Microsoft Gaming’s overall profit. As console gamers what we DO care about is how healthy the console business is, because that is where we play.
You say console sales don’t matter and I agree with you in terms of Microsoft Gaming’s overall success, especially as a publisher, it’s not that important to their bottom line. But console sales DO still matter for Xbox the console to survive.
Console sales are fine for now. But there is a tipping point where Xbox is no longer as viable for third parties to port games, and if they dip below this the console will wither.
What you seem to be ignoring is that it is possible that Microsoft Gaming can thrive and make record profits but at the same time Xbox, the console, can fail. Most console gamers care about the platform, not Microsoft’s profits.
So you don’t think it’s bad for GAMERS that in order to play Mario, Master Chief & Kratos we’ve previously had to buy three different and expensive consoles? Imagine if to watch Lord of the Rings, Star Wars and Back to the Future you had to buy 3 different and expensive DVD players, or to listen to The Beatles, Queen and The Rolling Stones you had to buy three different and expensive mp3 players. Exclusivity is bad for gaming in some ways, in that it limits how many people can experience the art. It should be open to all, but it isn’t. It’s a massive barrier to most.
For profit companies exist to make money.
I agree. Which is why Microsoft is doing this. They will make more money by going multi-platform than being exclusive to the console in third place
Play day 6 with Game Pass doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
I wouldn't mind as much but SOMEHOW they are allowed to market "available on day one with Game Pass", which they did as recently as yesterday. It's false advertising and should be illegal.
@Kaloudz I think Lego City Undercover is one of the best Lego games it's a cross between Lego and GTA with a saturday morning cartoon like story. Very hammy, but that's why I liked it. Light entertainment with fun gameplay. Perhaps a bit basic, but you could say that of all the Lego games.
This makes sense. I'm not much of a multiplayer guy, but this always felt a little tacked on as an afterthought and didn't seem to catch on. Better that id get to focus on what they are best at.
@TheEstablishment I don't think Console is going away anytime soon, but I do think there are possible concerns longer term with their CONSOLE strategy. I think they are playing a risky game with console that could backfire E.g. A hypothetical scenario.
Currently a lot of people complain about Series S holding back Series X. But what happens when "everything is an Xbox" and games have to be designed around an even lower hardware target. We're unlikely to get many first party games that really push the console. Right? So why buy an Xbox over the alternatives? Game Pass?
Additionally while I like that they are making games available for more players - especially as they bought entire publishers that previously made these games for other platforms - what happens if a lot of Xbox console gamers realise they can get almost all the 'Xbox' games on PC, PlayStation, or Nintendo as well those other exclusive games? They COULD lose a lot of console sales.
To be clear I think this is probably unlikely, but it is risk. To follow that line through. What happens if NextBox sells only 15 million in the same timeframe? If that happens more small third parties might slowly stop supporting Xbox console. We already see it somewhat at 30 million.
While it would start with smaller publishers this this trickle could turn into a flood and then it is out of Microsoft's hands. Again I don't think this is LIKELY, it's is all a bit doomsday, but I do think it is POSSIBLE. Microsoft is gambling here and console is on the table.
Also to be clear this is about the Xbox CONSOLE only, I think Microsoft it making the right calls for 'Microsoft Gaming' the wider business and it will be very profitable for them. Xbox (the console) can fail, while Microsoft gaming thrives, as a console fan that is the concern that make many of us uneasy. However unlikely.
It’s a tough line to tread because on paper giving a larger group of gamers access to more games is a great thing, exclusivity has always had its bad sides.
But on the other side exclusivity is also important to differentiate your console from the competition.
There’s also the financial side. Xbox consoles simply haven’t sold enough to support around 30 development studios on just Xbox & PC. Something has to give.
I suppose one answer is to make something else the differentiator, which is what they are trying to do with buy once play everywhere, cloud, cross save etc. But I’m not sure that is as much of a pull to enough gamers.
At the end of the day it usually comes back to games and other platforms will be offering their own exclusives AND most Xbox games. I suspect more games is a bigger draw to many gamers than wider access on more devices to fewer games. Tough nut to crack.
Personally I think they have enough studios to make SOME games exclusive and others not and still make more exclusives than say Sony, but that is hard to sell to developers who will be seeing other Xbox Studios get a lot more players on all platforms. It might breed animosity amongst them. Not sure what the solution is.
@FraserG Yep it's a great deal, I almost bought it on price alone. Then I remembered I hadn't played Odyssey or Valhalla despite owning them and i'm trying to buy less games I won't play immediately. (Still might buy it on price alone. lol)
Great show. 4 of 5 games coming in the next 4 months + Avowed next month and a shadow drop today. Plenty to be excited about. Game Pass be eating good.
Great to see a game's success being used to try and help other studios games also achieve success. Also good to see Surgent Studios get another role of the dice. Kenzera: Zau had it's flaws but it was a competent first game.
@Zenszulu That's where a proper remake or Bluepoint style remaster would help to reinvigorate the franchise first as well as test the waters to see if there is a captive audience for a fraction of the cost.
@OldGamer999 Astro Bot took around 3 years with 60-70 people so it's definitely feasible.
@Sol4ris Yes it’s an odd situation where Insomniac owns the IP but Microsoft reportedly holds the publishing rights to the original game and up to two sequels, that means it’s unlikely we’ll see it again sadly. Easiest way would be for them to do a spiritual successor in all but name.
EDIT: Also completely agree on Insomniac under Ted Price, the studio has been voted as one of the best places to work at least a dozen times in the last few decades. Happy staff are more likely to be productive and make good games, hence their output.
Legend! If you are a fan of games and how they are made Ted Price usually hosts a podcast called The Game Makers Notebook where he has talked to hundreds of industry luminaries like Todd Howard, Phil Spencer, Josh Sawyer, Sam Lake, Lorne Lanning, Ron Gilbert, David Grossman etc. It's well worth a listen imo.
All brilliant performances. Though I am surprised not to see Luke Roberts nominated for Silent Hill 2 and, frankly, the entire cast of Still Wakes the Deep. That game has more authentic dialogue than any game i've ever played, it just flows like real conversation. Incredible writing, direction and delivery. Snubbed everywhere.
But congrats to Troy Baker, he was absolutely BRILLIANT as Indy.
@Fiendish-Beaver I believe you can already have more than 16TB TOTAL but you couldn't previously have more than 16TB from ONE storage device, e.g. you couldn't plug a 160TB NAS into it. Now you can and it will show up as 10 different 16TB drives on Xbox. (edit)
This is probably useless for 99.99% of the audience, but a small handful of power users might find a use for it, those that want their entire Xbox library of thousands of games always available.
No, haven't thought about switching as it still offers great value to me. As an enthusiast who typically plays around 20+ games on Game Pass each year, and tries many more, i'm quids in. I also use cloud and local streaming on Steam Deck.
But If I was more casual and played a lot less I would think about it as prices have crept up.
@Kaloudz I think the most likely reason, is one of his friends, or perhaps Phil himself, said "lets play Gears together" and they got into it, as gamers do. But people will see signs in anything, occasionally they will be right.
Comments 6,725
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@HonestHick As I said above I didn’t read Phil’s reaction to the Steam comment the same at all. What else could he do except laugh, it was a throw away statement by Destin AFTER Phil had already commented, he can’t confirm it either way. He also said Shuhei Yoshida was one of his best friends in the industry, does that mean Xbox is merging with PlayStation? You can read anything into things like this.
While I think Steam on Xbox is possible, I just think it’s improbable, they could sell a console and never see another penny from buyers. If they were to sell a console for profit instead they would have to add at least £200 to the series x price and likely be $100, $200 or more than the competition. How did that work for the Xbox One, Dreamcast, or PS3?
That all said I AM excited that Microsoft is shaking up the industry and forging their own path, I think that’s both interesting and sensible business considering the position they find themselves in. But I’m also worried about where that leaves console gamers in future. I think you can feel both. As I keep saying Microsoft Gaming can thrive but Xbox, as we know it, can fail. I sincerely hope that doesn’t happen but I think it’s a risk they are taking with this publish everywhere strategy.
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@Millionski I HOPE you are right. I guess we will have to wait and see how the next gen Xbox sells.
Anyway i'm off to eat. Interesting discussions.
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@fatpunkslim I'm not saying Xbox doesn't have any exclusives, it does, but it's typically been far less than on PlayStation. As I said look at the number of games on each platform, or the GOTY list, it's not close. The list you put out is nice, but some of those likely aren't even coming till 2026 or maybe later, and I suspect, with their new approach most will be multi-platform now.
The Destin video is 21:18 https://youtu.be/-KK8xil5Uy0?si=ZX9qBV9Hx4c9qb1b&t=1278. I didn't read it quite like @HonestHick but i'd be interested to see what you think.
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@HonestHick That's a good point re:Store 30% that COULD mix things up. However I believe Xbox & PlayStation are far less likely to lose, or if they do will not have to change their rates as much because they sell their consoles at a loss when ALL factors like R&D, marketing etc. are included and not just cost of materials vs. wholesale price. Whereas Apple etc. make gross profits on their devices.
Additionally unlike phones, games consoles are not seen as essential to life, they are primarily entertainment which changes how the courts should view this, they aren't all in the same position and shouldn't all be treated the same.
Interesting how you interpreted that from Phil on Destin's show. I'll go back and take another look, but I don't think Phil did give anything away, he was more smiling at Destin 'trying' to squeeze some juice. (i think Destin said something like "it's confirmed" at that point)
But more broadly, two excellent points. Things can change quickly.
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
You make some interesting points that each have a hint of truth, and I want to agree with some of it, but there's also plenty glaringly obvious untruths in your comment e.g.
Do you REALLY believe it's "already the case" that Xbox has more exclusives than PlayStation? Utter nonsense. It's hard to get a precise number but fan curated lists online suggest there have been 841 games published on PS5 and just 601 on Xbox Series. It's not close.
You say fewer and fewer third-party publishers want to make exclusive games for a single platform, and I agree TO AN EXTENT, but PlayStation is the first console they make for. Look at the GOTY 2024 at The Game Awards, at that time all 6 were available on PS5, 4 on PC, 3 on Xbox, 1 on Switch.
Xbox DOESN'T have "true backwards compatibility", it's emulation that only works on a small proportion of games. i.e Around 6% of (OG) Xbox games (approx. 63 of 996 games) and around 29% of Xbox 360 games (approx. 632 of 2155 games). Only Xbox One games are truly backwards compatible, most of them except Kinect.
Look I agree Xbox is in a good position, and as a publisher they are doing the right thing. I think their console is great, I love Game Pass, but I think they are selling their console gamers short by losing exclusives, even though as a gamer who wants more people to be able to play games I am partially happy they are doing it. I think Microsoft gaming will THRIVE, but I worry for the console side of the business and the gamers who will be punished because of it.
P.S. Oh and i'm still waiting for a source on 5% and 12%
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@Kaloudz I agree the market is heading that way, but not quickly.
See my post above #50 for why Microsoft and Sony are in different positions and don't need to do the same thing. They SHOULD be doing different strategies because the focus of their businesses is now different. Xbox is more a publisher making money from their own games, PlayStation is more a platform making money from other people's games on their console.
BTW I don't agree with ALL the doom and gloom around Xbox (the brand), I think Microsoft is making the right calls and it will make them a LOT of money. But I am on the fence about whether Xbox (the console) does well or even survives much past the next-gen. While I think it's unlikely I do think Microsoft it taking risks that could backfire for people who like consoles only.
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@Fiendish-Beaver Totally agree.
I think the key point most people are missing is that Sony and Microsoft simply AREN'T in the same position anymore. By buying ABK and Zenimax Xbox are now one of the largest publishers in the world, PlayStation Studios are not.
Microsoft make more money through first party sales (so you want to sell on as many places as possible) whereas Sony make most of their money through third party sales on PSN (so they want as many people on PlayStation as possible). Therefore they need different strategies. What is right for one isn't necessarily right for the other.
Moreover Sony has sold 2.2X the number of consoles and that gap is widening. With that many Studios AND a much lower number of consoles sold Xbox HAS to sell on multiple platforms to make a reasonable profit. Sony does not HAVE to, not yet.
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@Millionski The key point is Sony doesn't make make most of their money from first party games. They make most of their money from third party software sold on PSN... ESPECIALLY Microtransactions.
For Sony to make more money they need to attract people to PlayStation & PSN, and having the widest selection of games many that aren't available elsewhere on console is the best way to do that.
Microsoft are in a different position. They are now one of the biggest publishers. The same rules don't apply to each.
Re: Xbox. I agree 30M units is enough this gen. But what if the next one sells much more slowly, especially around launch? Somewhere there is a line where 3rd party will start to tail off.
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@fatpunkslim Which were the figures I gave originally, around 6.8% over FY2022 and FY2023, more widely:
What's your source for 5% & 12%?
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@Kaloudz I think you are wrong here. Sony have no need to do this. Their business financials work as it stands and crucially Sony have much less to gain. What do I mean?
Sony has sold more than 71 million PS5s, whereas Xbox has sold around 32 million Xbox Series consoles. In other words Xbox increases their potential console market by a whopping 222% if they publish on PS5. That's huge.
Whereas Sony only gain 45% publishing on Xbox. It's still sizeable, but the amount of brand damage you do to your console by not having exclusives is probably not worth the cost for Sony.
They aren't in the same situation. For Microsoft this is the smart play, but not for Sony.
Re: Xbox Is Adding Three Huge Playtests This Week Via The Free 'Insider Hub'
@Kaloudz I suspect one of the agreements with Microsoft when they gave them a pass to release BG3 without split-screen AT LAUNCH on Xbox is that they would work on it and bring it later.
Most development problems like this can be solved with time. Time to refactor code to make it more efficient, time to optimise etc. Give them another year and a half and they'd probably get it working on Switch!
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@Fiendish-Beaver I'm not sure hell needs to freeze over before PlayStation games appear on Xbox, but they do need to be doing bad financially, which they aren't right now. Not happening anytime soon.
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@fatpunkslim Not accurate. Their operating income has been up every year except FY2022 in recent years.
FY 2024 is looking super strong with OI up 32.5% in Q1 and up 183.8% in Q2. This is all publicly available on their investor portal e.g. Q2 financials here (page 8).
Re: Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev
@fatpunkslim Sony's profit margins have been low for a few years but it was around 6.8% on average for 2 years (FY2022 & FY 2023). But their last quarter Q2 FY2024 was up to 12.95% along with record profits & record income, they are doing fine and don't really need to do this, they sell enough consoles that console + PC should still be profitable for a while yet.
Re: Xbox Is Adding Two Huge Playtests This Week Via The Free 'Insider Hub'
@Kaloudz Yes, but it was never impossible only hard. Look how long it's taken them to do. BG3 came out a year and a half ago!
Re: DOOM's OG Creator Praises Xbox Game Pass For Removing 'Barriers'
Totally agree with him. There are so many games I don't know if i'd like, maybe it's a genre I'm not keen on, or reviews were average, but with Game Pass you can try for yourself. It makes my gaming life richer and more varied.
Re: Deals: Xbox 'Indie Selects' Sale Includes A Bunch Of Big Releases From 2024
I thought Kena: Bridge of Spirits was wonderful, apart from a few brutal difficulty spikes on bosses that didn't really fit with the rest of the vibe of the game.
Re: Hands On: Eternal Strands Brings Single-Player Monster Hunting To Xbox Game Pass
It's getting mixed reviews so far. There's definitely something good in there, but seems like it's a bit rough around the edges too. That sounds worth trying to me. Beauty of Game pass
Re: PSA: Alan Wake 2's 'Lunar New Year' Xbox Discount Includes Two Games & Two Expansions
@oopsiezz It was on sale all over Christmas / New Year without DLC for £24.99. I'm sure it will be again soon.
Re: Xbox Boss Dismisses Idea Of Removing The Series S Parity Clause
Why would they? By my understanding it's the better selling SKU.
But more importantly how many games have ACTUALLY had a real problem running on the Series S? I'd posit less than 10.
That doesn't mean it isn't work to get it working, but so is it to get it onto Steam Deck, low powered PC etc.
The idea that Series S seriously holds back the Series X is overblown in all but a minority of cases.
Re: Xbox Is 'Evolving' Rather Than 'Losing' Its Identity, Says Phil Spencer
@BacklogBrad I agree to an extent. But when people used to say "Xbox has no games" it was never what they really meant. What they meant was "Xbox has no exclusive games" because when weighing up which console to buy you would of course look at what games are available on a system, and crucially what games aren't, this was mostly first party exclusives.
If Xbox are going to publish their games everywhere than I think they will continue to lose that round even if they are one of the largest publishers in gaming (Tencent still dwarf's them in most metrics I believe)
That said I agree with you that "Xbox's" future is bright, but I would be a bit more specific and say as a publisher Xbox / Microsoft Gaming's future is bright, but as a console Xbox's future is a bit more hazy.
Lastly totally agree that Sony need to sort some things out, but with their entrenched playerbase and market share I doing think they are in as much trouble (from a console perspective) as Xbox. Though I hope they all find their own niche and thrive, only time will tell.
Re: Xbox On Keeping Games Off Other Platforms: 'That's Not A Path For Us'
Kuainu wrote:
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Because the insomniac leak strongly proves otherwise. It showed most Sony first party games were making healthy profits for now, but as the cost to make games goes up those profits will shrink.
But that ISN’T the same as being in the red. They are still making profits on most first party games (though obviously some occasionally fail, that is normal.) The difference is their profit margins on these games are shrinking and in order to increase those margins they need to publish on more places like PC.
But that is different to them being “in the red”, don’t mistake the two, they aren’t the same.
Re: Xbox On Keeping Games Off Other Platforms: 'That's Not A Path For Us'
@Weebleman I agree that there’s a type of fan who is using things like profits as a **** measuring contest in their boorish console wars. Much like the 12TF vs 10TF, or other childish nonsense, basically cherry picking ANY metric to wave around as a measuring stick to ‘prove’ they are right. That’s sad and childish.
But, as a bit of a finance guy, I do think finances matter to show the health of a business. Not least that it means studios get to keep making the games we play, but more importantly for me, when they aren’t as financially constrained creatives usually have more freedom to make the games THEY want to make. Whereas tight finances usually stifle creativity and lead to safe sequels and other less interesting games.
Re: Xbox On Keeping Games Off Other Platforms: 'That's Not A Path For Us'
@TheEstablishment you are mostly right about revenue, and that Microsoft Gaming can make a lot more money and be more successful by going Multiplatform. I agree with that.
But most gamers aren’t shareholders, we don’t care too much about Microsoft Gaming’s overall profit. As console gamers what we DO care about is how healthy the console business is, because that is where we play.
You say console sales don’t matter and I agree with you in terms of Microsoft Gaming’s overall success, especially as a publisher, it’s not that important to their bottom line. But console sales DO still matter for Xbox the console to survive.
Console sales are fine for now. But there is a tipping point where Xbox is no longer as viable for third parties to port games, and if they dip below this the console will wither.
What you seem to be ignoring is that it is possible that Microsoft Gaming can thrive and make record profits but at the same time Xbox, the console, can fail. Most console gamers care about the platform, not Microsoft’s profits.
Re: Xbox Will Continue To Ship More Games On PlayStation And Nintendo
Vaako007 wrote:
So you don’t think it’s bad for GAMERS that in order to play Mario, Master Chief & Kratos we’ve previously had to buy three different and expensive consoles? Imagine if to watch Lord of the Rings, Star Wars and Back to the Future you had to buy 3 different and expensive DVD players, or to listen to The Beatles, Queen and The Rolling Stones you had to buy three different and expensive mp3 players. Exclusivity is bad for gaming in some ways, in that it limits how many people can experience the art. It should be open to all, but it isn’t. It’s a massive barrier to most.
I agree. Which is why Microsoft is doing this. They will make more money by going multi-platform than being exclusive to the console in third place
Re: Poll: Are You Buying The 'Early Access' Upgrade For Avowed?
Play day 6 with Game Pass doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
I wouldn't mind as much but SOMEHOW they are allowed to market "available on day one with Game Pass", which they did as recently as yesterday. It's false advertising and should be illegal.
Re: Deals: Lots Of Major Games Reduced By 90% In The Xbox Lunar New Year Sale 2025
@Kaloudz I think Lego City Undercover is one of the best Lego games it's a cross between Lego and GTA with a saturday morning cartoon like story. Very hammy, but that's why I liked it. Light entertainment with fun gameplay. Perhaps a bit basic, but you could say that of all the Lego games.
Re: Phil Spencer Reiterates Hardware Is Still A 'Critical Part' Of Xbox
@Slinko For NOW but they are already talking about a handheld which by it's form factor is already likely to be less powerful than a series S.
Re: DOOM: The Dark Ages Drops Multiplayer In Favour Of 'Most Expansive' Campaign Ever
This makes sense. I'm not much of a multiplayer guy, but this always felt a little tacked on as an afterthought and didn't seem to catch on. Better that id get to focus on what they are best at.
Re: Phil Spencer Reiterates Hardware Is Still A 'Critical Part' Of Xbox
@TheEstablishment I don't think Console is going away anytime soon, but I do think there are possible concerns longer term with their CONSOLE strategy. I think they are playing a risky game with console that could backfire E.g. A hypothetical scenario.
Currently a lot of people complain about Series S holding back Series X. But what happens when "everything is an Xbox" and games have to be designed around an even lower hardware target. We're unlikely to get many first party games that really push the console. Right? So why buy an Xbox over the alternatives? Game Pass?
Additionally while I like that they are making games available for more players - especially as they bought entire publishers that previously made these games for other platforms - what happens if a lot of Xbox console gamers realise they can get almost all the 'Xbox' games on PC, PlayStation, or Nintendo as well those other exclusive games? They COULD lose a lot of console sales.
To be clear I think this is probably unlikely, but it is risk. To follow that line through. What happens if NextBox sells only 15 million in the same timeframe? If that happens more small third parties might slowly stop supporting Xbox console. We already see it somewhat at 30 million.
While it would start with smaller publishers this this trickle could turn into a flood and then it is out of Microsoft's hands. Again I don't think this is LIKELY, it's is all a bit doomsday, but I do think it is POSSIBLE. Microsoft is gambling here and console is on the table.
Also to be clear this is about the Xbox CONSOLE only, I think Microsoft it making the right calls for 'Microsoft Gaming' the wider business and it will be very profitable for them. Xbox (the console) can fail, while Microsoft gaming thrives, as a console fan that is the concern that make many of us uneasy. However unlikely.
Re: Xbox Will Continue To Ship More Games On PlayStation And Nintendo
It’s a tough line to tread because on paper giving a larger group of gamers access to more games is a great thing, exclusivity has always had its bad sides.
But on the other side exclusivity is also important to differentiate your console from the competition.
There’s also the financial side. Xbox consoles simply haven’t sold enough to support around 30 development studios on just Xbox & PC. Something has to give.
I suppose one answer is to make something else the differentiator, which is what they are trying to do with buy once play everywhere, cloud, cross save etc. But I’m not sure that is as much of a pull to enough gamers.
At the end of the day it usually comes back to games and other platforms will be offering their own exclusives AND most Xbox games. I suspect more games is a bigger draw to many gamers than wider access on more devices to fewer games. Tough nut to crack.
Personally I think they have enough studios to make SOME games exclusive and others not and still make more exclusives than say Sony, but that is hard to sell to developers who will be seeing other Xbox Studios get a lot more players on all platforms. It might breed animosity amongst them. Not sure what the solution is.
Re: 'Xbox Play Anywhere' Makes A Welcome Appearance At Developer Direct 2025
I expect EVERY Microsoft title going forward to support Play Anywere, Cloud, Buy Once, Cross-save and Cross-progression, which is great.
But I wonder how many third parties will support this, that will dictate how successful this initiative really is.
Re: Xbox 'Lunar New Year' Sale Now Live, 600+ Games Discounted
@FraserG Yep it's a great deal, I almost bought it on price alone. Then I remembered I hadn't played Odyssey or Valhalla despite owning them and i'm trying to buy less games I won't play immediately. (Still might buy it on price alone. lol)
Re: Roundup: The First Previews Are In For DOOM: The Dark Ages
Was sold from the first trailer. Nothing has changed that. A must play.
Re: Xbox 'Lunar New Year' Sale Now Live, 600+ Games Discounted
You list Assassin's Creed Mirage as 60% off (£17.99 / $19.99) but the Deluxe version is 80% off, just £9.99 in the UK.
Re: Xbox Developer Direct 2025: The Full List Of Reveals, Including Two Surprises
Banger direct covering the next 4 months + Avowed, we be eating good.
Re: Poll: How Would You Grade 2025's Xbox Developer Direct?
Great show. 4 of 5 games coming in the next 4 months + Avowed next month and a shadow drop today. Plenty to be excited about. Game Pass be eating good.
Re: Xbox Game Pass Hit Palworld Was So Successful It's Spawned A New Publisher
Great to see a game's success being used to try and help other studios games also achieve success. Also good to see Surgent Studios get another role of the dice. Kenzera: Zau had it's flaws but it was a competent first game.
Re: Banjo-Kazooie Revival Would Be 'Instantly Hated' By Some Fans, Says Original Composer
@Zenszulu That's where a proper remake or Bluepoint style remaster would help to reinvigorate the franchise first as well as test the waters to see if there is a captive audience for a fraction of the cost.
@OldGamer999 Astro Bot took around 3 years with 60-70 people so it's definitely feasible.
Re: Talking Point: The Dev Who Greenlit Insomniac's Xbox One Classic Is Retiring
@Markatron84 let’s get it made!
Re: Talking Point: The Dev Who Greenlit Insomniac's Xbox One Classic Is Retiring
@Sol4ris Yes it’s an odd situation where Insomniac owns the IP but Microsoft reportedly holds the publishing rights to the original game and up to two sequels, that means it’s unlikely we’ll see it again sadly. Easiest way would be for them to do a spiritual successor in all but name.
EDIT: Also completely agree on Insomniac under Ted Price, the studio has been voted as one of the best places to work at least a dozen times in the last few decades. Happy staff are more likely to be productive and make good games, hence their output.
Re: Talking Point: The Dev Who Greenlit Insomniac's Xbox One Classic Has Now Retired
Legend! If you are a fan of games and how they are made Ted Price usually hosts a podcast called The Game Makers Notebook where he has talked to hundreds of industry luminaries like Todd Howard, Phil Spencer, Josh Sawyer, Sam Lake, Lorne Lanning, Ron Gilbert, David Grossman etc. It's well worth a listen imo.
Re: Xbox's Indiana Jones Voice Actor Wins 'Best Acting' Prize At New York Game Awards 2025
All brilliant performances. Though I am surprised not to see Luke Roberts nominated for Silent Hill 2 and, frankly, the entire cast of Still Wakes the Deep. That game has more authentic dialogue than any game i've ever played, it just flows like real conversation. Incredible writing, direction and delivery. Snubbed everywhere.
But congrats to Troy Baker, he was absolutely BRILLIANT as Indy.
Re: Xbox Is Adding Support For Even Bigger Storage Devices In 2025
@GlasgowGuy Something isn't right if re-indexing is taking days. I have a 2TB + 1TB + 4TB and it takes minutes.
Re: Xbox Is Adding Support For Even Bigger Storage Devices In 2025
@Fiendish-Beaver I believe you can already have more than 16TB TOTAL but you couldn't previously have more than 16TB from ONE storage device, e.g. you couldn't plug a 160TB NAS into it. Now you can and it will show up as 10 different 16TB drives on Xbox. (edit)
This is probably useless for 99.99% of the audience, but a small handful of power users might find a use for it, those that want their entire Xbox library of thousands of games always available.
Re: Talking Point: Have You Been Tempted To Switch To Xbox Game Pass Standard?
No, haven't thought about switching as it still offers great value to me. As an enthusiast who typically plays around 20+ games on Game Pass each year, and tries many more, i'm quids in. I also use cloud and local streaming on Steam Deck.
But If I was more casual and played a lot less I would think about it as prices have crept up.
Re: Here's 20 Minutes Of 'Eternal Strands' Ahead Of Next Week's Xbox Game Pass Launch
Had my eye on this hope they pull it off and it’s not too long.
Re: Xbox 'Investigating' Reports Of Laggy Media Apps After Extended Playback
I noticed this on the Sky app hopefully it's fixed.
Re: Xbox Fans Hoping For 'Marcus Fenix Collection' News After Phil Spencer Revisits Gears Classics
@Kaloudz Yes movie and TV series, though perhaps discussion of those is what organically led to "lets play gears again".
Also good to see you back. 😊
Re: Xbox Fans Hoping For 'Marcus Fenix Collection' News After Phil Spencer Revisits Gears Classics
@Kaloudz I think the most likely reason, is one of his friends, or perhaps Phil himself, said "lets play Gears together" and they got into it, as gamers do. But people will see signs in anything, occasionally they will be right.