Xbox Has 'Right Approach' To Exclusives & PlayStation May Follow, Suggests Ori Dev

As I've said before, I really think Microsoft is on to something with their vision. I just think they are blazing a new trail the rest of the industry will follow. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm still excited for the next generation console and where Xbox goes from here.

Big fan of this guy. I agree with him I think Sony will follow, although they’ll still stagger their releases on other platforms like they do now, we’ll see more and more Sony exclusives become less exclusive.

As long as Sony continues to go ahead with the PlayStation which sells more in hardware than Xbox, I don’t see them needing or having to port any of their 1st party games for a long time. Perhaps they’ll port more to PC is more likely but staggered enough to where it won’t hurt hardware sales.

The notion that PlayStation will follow Xbox all the way down this path is flawed, I believe. Perhaps they will eventually do day 1 releases for PC. Perhaps they will port live service games like Helldivers 3 to Xbox, I could see that on the distant horizon. But we are fools to ever hope for their flagship single player games on Xbox. The day God of War comes to Xbox is the day that hell freezes over and pigs start flying en masse. They won’t even permit the likes of Stellar Blade on Xbox for crying out loud.

Xbox strategy:
1. Yes There will be more Xbox games on Nintendo and PlayStation
2. No. It won't be all Xbox games
3. Many games will launch on Xbox first, and then MS will decide if they port them to other consoles OR NOT

I think PlayStation will eventually follow the same strategy, for the simple reason that their current strategy is not profitable; they only make a 5% margin while Xbox makes 12%. Production costs have skyrocketed, and they will release everything on PC. The disadvantage for them is that they have very few first-party games compared to Xbox. Their exclusive games mainly come from third-party publishers, and they will have fewer exclusives because fewer and fewer third-party publishers want to make exclusives.

I do think Sony follows this path...eventually. I use Sony instead of Playstation because it will likely be forced on Playstation from above. Microsoft will demonstrate that multiplatform offers a higher profit without hurting the brand.

Sony openly complained that their big games do not make a big enough profit margin to be sustainable. They are fully invested in the PC space now. Their live service push has been an epic flop, we could spend years calculating how much money that decision has cost them. Multiplatform (especially on switch 2) is the simplest way to increase their profits.

Nintendo is a wildcard here and don't have the same parent company pressure that xbox and Playstation have. I can still see them going multiplat some day though. One day they might realize that people don't emulate their games because they are frugal, they want to play the game on their high-end systems. Might as well sell the games to an audience that is clearly there.

I guess Microsoft's vision could work if all the companies would follow suit. The question is: are they willing to?

I wouldn't be suprised but I suspect it might be two generations before we see it.

They've already ported games to PC, some even on day one, if budgets keep going as they are the only growth will be all games on PC, and then once stips giving them growth the only other places is Xbox and Nintendo.

@deadmaker the question is not: are they willing to? they are force to ! they have no choice ! Production costs are such that they are forced to go multiplatform. Why do you think they want to move towards service games after canceling a bunch of games? Why do you think they are only making remakes this generation? They are looking for quick profit; the situation is very tense for them financially. The next step is day one on PC; they have to if they want to support their studios.

@fatpunkslim I'll believe it when I see it.

As he said in his interview, the fact that Sony has a massive advantage over the Xbox means that no Sony exclusive will ever appear on the Xbox. People keep arguing that Sony will not have exclusives going forward, and when it comes to PC, that may well be true at some point, but Hell would literally have to freeze over before they put any of their first-party output on the Xbox.

Ultimately, no one should be surprised to hear a developer say that putting their games in front of as many people as possible is what they want, because that means more visibility, more sales, and more success. However, what suits a developer is not necessarily the right thing in terms of console sales, and that is where Xbox will greatly falter. Will Microsoft have huge financial success in putting their games on the PlayStation? Absolutely. Is that good for us that game on the Xbox? Not necessarily. Yes, we will get all the first-party content that Microsoft produce, but what we will lack more and more is the third-party games, be it because Sony have managed to sort an exclusivity deal as they did with Stellar Blade, for example, or because the developers will prioritise the console with the most users. And as more and more people buy a PlayStation instead of an Xbox because they can play both the output of Sony and Xbox there, the worse that will become. Let's face it, if a clueless parent were to walk into a store, who would the salesperson recommend? PlayStation or Xbox? Hands-down they would suggest PlayStation for that very reason.

I know people will often site Game Pass as a reason to buy an Xbox, but there will, without a doubt, be a tipping point where the Service becomes unviable. My guess is that that point will be reached during the next generation, and that best outcome is that Microsoft go down a strictly first-party only service (which may enable the Service to go on the PlayStation). The worst outcome is that they scrap it completely, but with their push into Cloud, I think that less likely.

@deadmaker You already see it without realizing it, just look at the closer release dates of games on PC, and the release of day one games on PC, it's just the beginning.

He hit the nail on the head. Of course they will follow suit. MS gets a lot of hate for (almost) no reason. The whole "Xbox is dead" is crap. Xbox ain't dead, they're as strong as they have been since the dawn of Xbox One. Their current strategy isn't that big a deal, and they (as I and many others have said) won't be the only ones to do this - they're just the first to do it. It's as simple as that.

The industry is changing, and increased cost is chief among that. The studio closures, the layoff, the backlash, and more besides goes to show that. Gamers don't help in the slightest when developers try to mitigate some extra income (we bashed loot boxes, we bashed traditional DLC, we bashed microtransactions, and much more) we go feral. They have to make more money - hence the price hikes.

One failed project or one that doesn't sell enough can break a studio. Like it or lump it, this is the direction the industry is headed in. Give it ten years. MS are just pathing the way.

Totally agree, @Cakefish. We even both went for the Hell freeze over comment too... 🤣

@themightyant you're wrong ,For several years, Sony's profits have been steadily declining. You need to smooth it out over the year; looking at just the last quarter doesn't mean anything. It's the annual figures that matter. Sony's profits are well below the market average, that's a fact!

And we should also count the cost of canceled games and the wasted time, I assure you that things are not going well for them.

Going multiplat might be good for selling more games, but it usually goes with the cost of losing console share, which is an important focus for them. Playstation would be foolish to give away their lead in hardware console share by going full multiplat with their games. Right now they get all the games from all publishers and get a 30% share of all games sold through their platform. And they would give up their huge lead in console hardware like that? Ofcourse anything is possible, but it’s highly unlikely and not to mention foolish.

you wont see sony games on xbox..

Think PC is as far Sony will go sharing games. It just doesn't match their business model. Same as day 1 releases on their premium sub.

They've dropped the PS4, can't see them wasting time and resources downgrading games to get them to run on the series S.

Sony have no need to follow suit, @Kaloudz, that's assuming you mean bringing their titles to the Xbox. Sony are too far ahead to consider the necessity of porting games to the Xbox, and the gap they have opened will only keep getting bigger as each month passes (as is demonstrated by the monthly sales charts).

I know people keep saying Sony is following Xbox when it comes to porting games to the PC, and then they seem to conclude that Sony will follow Xbox into porting their games to their rivals console too. In doing so, they completely overlook two things:

1. Microsoft are not porting games just because they want to, they are doing so because they have too. With Game Pass cannibalising some sales, and with a much smaller userbase, Microsoft have to port their games to the PlayStation in order that making games is sustainable. Sony is not in the same position; first off, they do not put their first-party games day one on their Service, and secondly, they have a much larger userbase, which combined with PC sales, is enough for them to continue with their strategy. Indeed, porting games to the Xbox may actually be done so at a loss, such is the size of the Xbox userbase as opposed to the cost of porting. Anyone that thinks that Microsoft would be doing the same if they had the sort of lead enjoyed by Sony is deluding themselves. If Microsoft had that sort of lead, Hell would have to freeze over before they ported a game to the PlayStation, just as it would have to for Sony to start doing the same now with Xbox.

2. Microsoft first started putting games on the PC in 2007, so it took them 17 years to reach the position wherein they needed to put their output on the PlayStation, and they did so only because they were in such a weakened position. Conversely, Sony is in a strong position, and have only been porting their games in recent years. Thus, we are probably looking at more than a decade before Sony would consider it necessary, and even then, they would have had to suffer a remarkable fall from grace to reach the sort of position that Microsoft finds itself in...

Yes, Yes and Yes! This exclusivity kindergarten has to die out.

The devices are similar enough to do ports. Series s is different but now with switch 2 and PC Handhelds that are close to SS power-wise, things might be changing too.

The devices and ecocystems are different enough in controllers, features and other things. Let us play games where we want them.

However, realistically not sure. I doubt Sony will follow as basically they can wait out until MS loses more market share and get it. I know not everyone will switch to PS necessarily with rise of switch 2, PC and pc handhelds and mobile, however for sure decent chunk of that market share goes directly to sony. So not sure what is the incentive of releasing sony 1st party for 30M players, whereas in 5-10 years they will get another lets say 10M players directly as PS players instead of paying a cut on xbox store audience.

I am also convinced Nintendo wont follow or be the last to follow. Seems like they are the only ones who are truly committed to consoles and exclusivity and are happy with their margins.

@Fiendish-Beaver Great minds think alike and all that haha!

Further to my point is the fact that this likelihood actually decreases with every passing year, as Xbox consoles make up an ever shrinking proportion of the overall market as sales continue to decline. This gives Sony less incentive to port their games, not more. It’s the exact opposite market forces to what Microsoft was facing. Do we really think Xbox ‘Prime’ will outsell XSX|S and restore a more even balance between PlayStation and Xbox marketshare? I sadly doubt that very much.

@Fiendish-Beaver any evidence that they "have to" port games to be sustainable? The most expensive games of this gen were starfield and Halo infinite, both still exclusive. All games are also launching on PC where people buy games rather than sub on GP.
GP is also sustainable and profitable (maybe not as porfitable as MS wanted initially) with the current sub count especially after they jacked up all prices. Thats is proven by analysts simply by calculating GP avg revenues and their spend on 1st and 3rd party content. MS has way less expensive games than sony. And that was before GP changes with tiers and pricing.

Overall I agree that Sony wont follow and rather wait until they naturally steal portion of xbox console share and people will buy their games regardless and without xbox store cut.

@themightyant operating income = It's the revenue generated by the company's main activities, before deducting costs and expenses.

I'm talking about profit margin !!

Here the right numbers: Sony profit margin running 5% and XBOX (without ABK) 12% EA 14%, and ABK 17%? That is more like a Supermarket (4%) than a gaming company. Just a few yesrs ago Sony ran 9%.

If Xbox gets steam on their next hardware than they get Xbox pc and PlayStation games

@Cakefish guaranteed to sell less. I do think it still will be around 30M by the end of "prime gen". If GP count stays, then pretty much 80% of GP right now is on console. Maybe little shift to cloud or PC. Anyways, I dont see it selling less than 25-30M.

Its more important if thats enough for MS and their metrics to keep doing it.

@fatpunkslim and we have to stop doing this ABK exclusion. The deal is done, abk is just a name now, a division internally. Even on fin statements ABK wont be shown separately as it was fully consolidated.

I think the term is right, @themightyant, for a couple of reasons, firstly, Sony is slowly crushing the life out of Xbox. They are steadily widening the gap that exists between the number of people that game on a PlayStation as opposed to the Xbox. Indeed, you see comments on these forums, and on Push, where people profess to having an S for Game Pass, which is all fine and dandy, but it is most likely their second choice console, and you have to wonder just how many of them would not have bothered buying an Xbox if the only option was the X. I imagine that would have hurt Xbox sales considerably.

The second reason is the guttural reaction that would be seen the moment Sony announced a game as going to the Xbox! Recent history has shown that gamers don't want to see their games shared with a rival console. Many Xbox gamers were up in arms, and with many of those that supported it understanding the necessity. With the PlayStation that reaction would be more visceral because there are that many more of them. Sony would simply not want to incur the backlash, and they have no need to endure it either...

He makes some good points in the article. I just don’t see Sony porting over their exclusives, at least not anytime soon. If game costs keep going up like they have been, then eventually I think they will. Either that or they’ll have to learn to lower costs somehow. Time will tell what Sony will do.

@Millionski It was just to show that even without ABK, Xbox makes 2X more profit margins than PlayStation. But you're right, with ABK it's 3X more!

It's funny because these profit margin ratios are identical to the number of games produced! Xbox makes 3 times more games than PlayStation. So one is correlated with the other, it's logical!

Personally, I prefer to be part of the team that creates games, and be sure to be able to play them, play them first, play them thanks to Game Pass, be able to play a game on PC, console, or cloud thanks to Play Anywhere, etc...

@themightyant I think the only reason to do this is that people are mostly already are in some team. All these "switchers" are mostly online in websites like this and represent a tiny 0.1% of total gamers.
Most people just play their box and if they like it, they keep buying next one.
Same as people with iphone dont follow any android phones news, dont know their features and such.

So I guess their point is, maybe even if tomorrow spider man 2 and GOW launches on xbox, people on PS will not switch. Or shift will be immaterial. Hence, they can port the games and earn extra cash without a hit to current PS consoles in any material way.

I do also think its very unlikely as they can just wait till MS loses more share and get those players anyways.

PlayStation has canceled more games than it has created in this generation, it's still crazy!

@Fiendish-Beaver "what we will lack more and more is the 3rd party games" - meanwhile Square Enix and Kodjima releasing games on xbox. seems like 30M series is enough?

Wukong is the only big 3rd party game that skipped xbox so far which I agree is bad.

I think Sony will get in bed with Nintendo long before MS.

Sony will already have data from MLB/destiny. They would have to downgrade games to run parity on series S too.

Even the best selling exclusives hit 20% of install base at the best.
So Xbox would be 6million (approx) then take into account people who own multiple consoles or PC and that number drops even further.

We may get there, but as PS console sales hold steady AND they are getting Xbox games their need to port is much less currently

Definitely makes sense with the Ps5 exclusives going to PC, but still think Sony as of right now has absolutely no incentive to port their games to Xbox outside of certain exceptions. Mean as of right now seems like it’s maybe 30 million and it’s not like Xbox is experiencing insane levels of growth. They still have some incentive for Exclusives, at least timed before a PC release. Vs Xbox which even when they had their biggest exclusives in years last year with Starfield, they still saw a loss in growth for 2023. With them now focusing on multiplatform releases, they are better of focusing of launching everywhere at the same time.

And Stellar Blade, @Millionski, and Rise of the Ronin, and Forspoken...

@Millionski And I agree with you, I think there’s no way next gen outsells XSX|S, if only because as far as we know there won’t be a Series S equivalent that can attract people based on price point alone (though I do think the pivot to multiplatform will have an inevitable detrimental impact too). So with a PS6 that’s in an even more dominant market position, there’s even less incentive for Sony to launch their games on Xbox than there is today.

Canary in the coal mine here is third party exclusives, and as we can see from Stellar Blade and the many other third party games that Sony locked up in 2024, that this canary is sadly very much alive and in full fighting health (apologies to the canaries out there). And even if that canary eventually kicks the bucket one day, it’s still a giant leap to get from no third party exclusives to porting first party exclusives.

Maybe someday all restaurants will serve the same food, while all clothing brands sell exactly the same clothes. Because why should the brick box we walk into matter?

I just don't see Steam being on the next Xbox, @Prestige-worldwide. The simple reason being that a AAA game on Steam generally costs at least £10 less than it does on a console. Thus if people can pay less for a game, they will, and so Xbox will lose the sale of that game. So, for a third-party game sold on Steam Xbox would lose the 30% that they would charge on their own Store front, and for first-party games, not only would it be selling for £10 less, but also they would have to pay 30% to Steam for the privilege of selling it there.

Therefore, where they sell a third-party game on their Store front that costs £70, Microsoft take a fee of £21. For their own first-party games, they get the whole £70. On Steam though, for first-party games, the game would sell for £60 of which they would actually only receive £42 after paying Steam's 30% fee, and for third-party games, they would entirely miss out on that £21 that they would have got from selling the game. Times this by millions of games sales, and the losses to Microsoft in terms of sales, would be huge...

In other words, the future is gaming consoles will essentially become a universal game machine, not dissimilar to how VHS and DVD players were. Its an interesting prospect, but I just dont think Sony and Nintendo are in a position where they need this to survive. Itll be interesting to see how things play out!

I really hope so. I have a PS5 but have a strong preference for my Series X. The controller and quick resume on Xbox are very important to me.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner Your thesis PS is more likely to work with Nintendo doesn’t make sense with your first argument that the Series S being weaker makes it difficult to work with MS.

@Fiendish-Beaver @themightyant I get where you're both coming from (I do), but I think long term, this is the way the market is heading. It's so alien to a lot of people now because for as long as consoles have been a thing, there's been strong divides via exclusives. But looking at the state of just the last few years in the market, something needs to give, and I strongly believe that this is the first of many steps towards that reality.

Sure, Sony are up high right now, but it only takes a few tanks to humble even the biggest of companies. Things can totally flip in just a few short years, pathing the way for change. Microsoft practically spent three quarters of Sony's complete value just on the Xbox sector - so the notion that Xbox is in any danger of closing shop, just eludes me.

Are we a good while yet from seeing Sony do the same? More than likely, but I do think it's coming sooner or later. I think people (not you) just like to crap on MS because it seems to be the cool thing to do. It went from "Xbox is inferior" to Xbox One X. It went from "Xbox has no games" to heaps of acquisitions and a hella stacked lineup. Despite what seems to be popular opinion, they're doing great things.

I can't see too many people jumping ship because (not all) games go multiplat after a timed exclusive window - or in some cases, day one parity. Christ, even SE are ditching exclusivity and leaning multiplat now. Sorry guys I love the socks off you, but I just don't see MS being the only ones to do this as time comes to pass.

@themightyant "PlayStation is more a platform making money from other people's games on their console."

"Yeah! It's right: PlayStation is basically a box for third-party games. The problem with that is it works when this box has exclusive games from third-party publishers. The thing is, it's not looking good on that front, as fewer and fewer third-party publishers want to make exclusive games for a single platform for obvious profitability reasons. It's not a first-party game released once a year that will change anything, especially if it also comes out on PC.

Fewer exclusive games = fewer game sales = forced to turn to multiplatform for profitability. They have already started with PC and Switch. Who would have imagined a few years ago that Sony would release games on PC and Switch? They did it, and they will do it later on Xbox, it's just a matter of time. (And maybe even despite themselves if the next Xbox console integrates Steam.)

In the end, PlayStation will have fewer and fewer exclusive games, even fewer than Xbox, and that's already the case! Xbox makes games, it has Game Pass, Play Anywhere, true backward compatibility. So on paper, Xbox has many more advantages for the player. What Xbox lacks is just marketing, nothing else!

Sounds like more loser talk to me

@LogicStrikesAgain @Kaloudz @themightyant @Cakefish @Fiendish-Beaver

Before we go all in on Sony won’t bring games to other platforms. Keep 2 things in mind that are going on behind the scenes. The first is the biggest elephant in the room. In Europe it is already scheduled to go to court over the 30 % cut Apple, Google, PS, Xbox take from 3rd parties. IF and it’s a BIG IF. That goes down to say 20 or even 15%, there goes PS advantage of making all that 3rd party money. That is something to keep an eye on. I forgot if it’s to start the case in 2025 or 2026. Number 2 and less likely to move Sony but for sure be interesting is a little service you all might have heard of called Steam. It’s coming to Xbox. I will bet my dog and house on it. When that i don’t know but it’s coming. On the Destin podcast with Phil this week it was basically confirmed as Phil just laughed and didn’t answer. Destin laughed and they went to the next topic. Well that would make Sony have to do a whole separate launcher if they don’t want Xbox players playing PS games on Steam and i am not sure if that would even work. So before we say the industry isn’t changing even for Sony with good hardware numbers. I would stop and play the wait and see game.

@Fiendish-Beaver these 3 games are not 3rd party and were were sponsored by Sony.
Stellar and Ronin are published by sony.
Forposken is published by Square Enix which had a long agrement with sony too.

Such games usually considered 2nd party

I am talking real 3rd party like EA/ubi and others. And aside from Wukong and there was some capcom game, I dont remember anything more or less of interest skipping the platform.

@themightyant I dont think Sony will port any 1st party games on xbox this gen or next gen. I am saying they probably could and could earn extra cash without losing any sales or loyalty. People pretty much accepted the PC ports and no one complains now.

Long-term (10+ years) things can change drastically.

Regarding xbox sales. My bet is series gen sells closer to 40M depending if they stop producing it right away with launch of new one or not. Its 31 now or so and is going to sell for another 2 years minimum. Even by taking the worst month data like nov, it still realistic to hit the 40M.

Next gen xbox - I dont see it selling less than 25-30M or so as well. Reason is GP. we know of 35M subs and roughly 80%+ are on console. If GP will be as good as 2025 seems to be, I see all these people sticking in. Plus some brand loyalits and etc.

TLDR: I think the 25-30 is a min for next gen. also handlehd will be there as well and even wihtout parity it would be weird to have game on handheld but not on xbox prime (I would understand other way around due to power). So basically prime can sell less but offset by their own handheld. That means similar share and 3rd party support same as today.
Yeah if all completly goes downhill to like 5M sold in 3 years, they can scrap it. I think its unlikely.

@HonestHick I am convinced steam+xbox is a separate thing that would be integrated on PC. Maybe those PC-xbox hybrids become a thing. We know they are working on xbox interface on PC.

I think next xbox console is a series X successor at a good price point like 599 (basically 500 like last time adjusted for inflation). However, along with that they can try this PC-xbox hybrids at a higher price points with steam available.

I dont see a single reason to not do a proper regular xbox console and I dont see a way to make a steam work on it both technically and from business prospective (selling console at a cost so people spend money on steam instead of xbox store - sounds counter-intuitive)

@themightyant I confirm, it sounds weird but true, Xbox exclusives: south of midnight, stalker 2 , contraband, avowed, Fable, gears, perfect dark, state of decay 3, replaced, everwirl, OD Clockwork Revolution, 33 immortals, ARK 2, project mara, .... And I forget many others. We're still waiting for the rumors that have been around for a year about Forza Horizon 5, Halo, Starfield, etc., supposedly coming to all platforms. Lots of rumors for not much in the end!

Some will surely be temporarily exclusive, but even so, it blows up the PS lineup which is almost empty.

@fatpunkslim Atomfall is on my PS5 store's wishlist.

@HonestHick very interesting point ! At what point in the video do they talk about Steam?

@ButterySmooth30FPS: ok thanks, I corrected it.

@HonestHick ahhh well yes that would be a rather delicious loophole, but I posit that this wouldn’t actually invalidate my argument at all. Firstly, that wouldn’t be Sony actually porting games to the Xbox storefront, but rather Steam instead. Secondly, it wouldn’t be intentional support of Xbox hardware by Sony, it would an unintended consequence of Xbox hardware morphing into living room PCs rather than staying as traditional consoles.

@themightyant You said it all, you speak in the past tense, but that's no longer the case, the acquired studios are running at full capacity and it shows!

Thanks for the link ! His response is quite encouraging, I would say, and between the lines, we can indeed understand that seeing Steam on Xbox is well on its way.

I have a all the major consoles, including Xbox, PS5 and Switch, so I have zero side to take in any console war. I agree with a lot of others. I think exclusivity dying out would be beneficial for gamers. But Sony has zero incentive to do this when they have such a big lead in hardware sales. I am not holding my breath for Sony exclusives going to Xbox, that is for sure. If it happens, it is going to be a long time from now.

@HonestHick @themightyant Very good points on both sides of the proverbial line in the sand. And yeah I don't see the doom and gloom either and agree that following your own path (MS) is more ideal sometimes than competing for dominance (which -dominating - isn't something you necessarily need to succeed). Anything can flip the script at any time.

Take the above, if Steam comes to Xbox, that'd essentially put PS games on Xbox via proxy. I do think it's (Steam) coming sooner or later, perhaps at the beginning next gen, and that will feed into MS' 'everything everywhere' sort of vibe. As for the court case, I reckon there'll be some middle ground achieved depending on how it's framed. 22-25% on the sale is where I would guess it sits. But it's all guesswork for now. We can only wait and see what happens. I just don't see divisions in say 10 years time.

As a gamer, for me, it's more about the service and the ecosystem than anything else. I couldn't care less if exclusivity went out the window altogether. I stick with Xbox because it's amazing value, the service is almost never disrupted, and the whole system is outstanding. Sure we miss the odd third party exclusive here and there but even that's practically coming to an end.

@HonestHick Fair points! Like i said everything is possible, but first one is such a hypothetical. Ofcourse different decisions might be made if things change. But for now, i’d say it’s unlikely, but anything is possible.

As for the second point about having Steam on Xbox. I think that Sony will definitely try to come up with something at that point, maybe there’s a way for not allowing their games on certain hardware. Or they might think twice before releasing some titles to PC. Or maybe by that point they just wouldnt care if some games could be indirectly played on Xbox hardware after a while who knows 🤷🏻‍♂️

You may already have read this, @HonestHick, but just in case you haven't, I'll repost it:

I just don't see Steam being on the next Xbox. The simple reason being that a AAA game on Steam generally costs at least £10 less than it does on a console. Thus if people can pay less for a game, they will, and so Xbox will lose the sale of that game. So, for a third-party game sold on Steam Xbox would lose the 30% that they would charge on their own Store front, and for first-party games, not only would it be selling for £10 less, but also they would have to pay 30% to Steam for the privilege of selling it there.

Therefore, where they sell a third-party game on their Store front that costs £70, Microsoft take a fee of £21. For their own first-party games, they get the whole £70. On Steam though, for first-party games, the game would sell for £60 of which they would actually only receive £42 after paying Steam's 30% fee, and for third-party games, they would entirely miss out on that £21 that they would have got from selling the game. Times this by millions of games sales, and the losses to Microsoft in terms of sales, would be huge...

I must be missing something. All these people in support of this model and yet because Sony has a strong platform and has managed to build a solid customer base, they are able to rake in literal billions off other people's work.

In 2021 PlayStation made around $7.5bn off of microtransactions. If you know PS games you will know they hardly have any, so they are making literal billions off the work of others by being a platform holder.

Why risk that for some extra game sales?

There's no speculation to be had. People need to take a minute and look around the gaming industry. Microsoft is expanding the Xbox ecosystem and have managed to massively grow their gaming business massively. Not just with the big publisher aquistion but the studio acquisitions. Xbox Game Studios is doing incredibly on its own. Overall Xbox is funding and publishing (and Microsoft does not pay all the overhead costs related to ABK and Zenimax games) more than ever. Like way more than ever. Like more than most game companies out there period. On the other hand Sony's third party exclusives have publicly abandoned them and given statements of regret for taking exclusive deals this generation, and Sony's first party studios are struggling to output games. What they are putting out continues to be as good as it always has been, but that doesn't change dwindling margins. Sony themselves are forced to support Steam (and Valve is coming up with major innovations that blur the lines between console and PC), scale back game production a lot (while balancing desperate attempts for live service games), and charge their gamers more than ever (or push for the whole industry to charge more than ever) as they attempt to find stable footing. The options are either A) follow Xbox and Steam and the rest of the industry and try to reach more gamers or B) follow Nintendo and majorly control costs while charging industry standard prices and innovating for differentiation. Sony is doing neither and it does not look good for them. They HAVE to make a change.

@Fiendish-Beaver are you able to give some examples, I looked up doom the dark ages, avowed and south of midnight since they’re first party and they are selling for the same price as on Xbox

@Medic_alert The question can be asked then why Sony is investing hundreds of millions into live service games (in some cases billions) including going as far as to buy Bungie and a heap of new studios specialized in live service (one of which got closed after their first game), and continue to do so despite them all but Helldivers 2 ending up being wastes of money? Why is Sony supporting PC and Steam?

Gamers are worth more money than ever and continue to be. Especially as unlike prior the last gen continues to spend money in games like fortnite. However, the number of gamers on console hasn't majorly increased. In fact Sony has seen less console sales each generation since the PS2 (not unlike Xbox (the PS2 to PS4 and Xbox 360 to Xbox One were both about a 30 million drop)). The core console gamer base is about the same and the gamers who are on console are averaging more enagement and money spent on the platform, but that doesn't change that consoles are largely failing to grow their users in any significant way. The best they can do is hope to keep things flat. This is not remotely sustainable with how costs for everything keeps increasing. Businesses have to either spread out their costs across more consumers, lower their costs, or charge existing consumers more. Sony sees the writing on the wall. There's a huge different between 70% of purchases within a game or of a game itself and 30%. Xbox has the content lineup where as a publisher they'd be idiotic not to expand the reach of their games to help them be as successful as possible and Xbox has taken the stance that they gain far more than they could lose. And I think we see the fruits of that labor. The "nosediving" console sales are actually about the same. A little lower, but they've already passed the halfway mark to 50m after half the usual generation. Playstation 5 sales are a little higher than halfway to PS4 sales. Both companies are on track (pending early Xbox next gen plans) to do about the same in total sales as they did last gen. That's a LOT worse for Sony than it is for Xbox. Xbox having major first party growth vectors in PC. Xbox also has the benefit of having seen their first party games do tremendously well on other platforms because they sell to gamers where they are. Sony is facing a situation where costs are significantly rising, but their consumer base isn't and their unwillingness to evolve with the market has already shown consequences (with their lower output of first party games for example and insane increased prices for consumers for hardware because they can't afford to subsidize costs as much anymore).

@Fiendish-Beaver also idk if this applies but if everyone would just buy at where it’s cheaper than nobody would buy on Xbox or steam because you can get cheaper keys on CD keys or eneba but since it’s easier on steam or Xbox I think convenience adds a big part. If I can buy Xbox and steam games on one console not having to deal with the upkeep a pc requires that is more enticing for me

@anoyonmus You mean like MLB the Show the Sony first party developed and published game that they were literally forced to put on Xbox if they wanted the license? Not only that, but to support day one game pass (which Sony had always been publicly against) for like 3 or 4 years (2025 being the first year since where the game isn't day one game pass; even Sega hasn't supported GP that much; I don't think any other third party publisher has supported game pass as consistently with a yearly AAA release as Sony 😂.)

Sony is a business and they can make whatever decisions they want, but it says a LOT when you look at MLB the Show and when someone who can tell Sony to support more platforms does. "Console wars" had always been a mistake and we're now at the point of squabbling over what would be seen as rounding errors in other markets. Unless Sony massively lowers costs like Nintendo, exclusives will just continue to be a stain on their business. Their own third party partners have spoke out about not seeing financial sense in doing exclusives and support multiplatform (including Xbox) day one. Sony's first party just isn't putting out much at all, and Sony themselves have been throwing money in a pit and burning it as they try to crack Live Service (Helldivers 2 quickly proving itself as the exception (aren't we supposed to have 12 Helldivers 2 by now?)). Sony can choose to keep everything exclusive to their sub 200 million consumer base (that's being REALLY generous; PS5 sales are floating near 70 million and the PS4 ended at 117 million, but most PS5 sales are also going to be upgrades... and neither number is monthly active users on the console). But the way the industry is headed, I don't think anyone can afford to make games at the prices they are and justify not making them as widely available as possible. Consoles especially would be best serve doing so because their market as a whole is about the size (or I think smaller) than PC (a singular platform) and way smaller than mobile. Each individual console is taking a small piece of a small pie and then barricading themselves (or Xbox had been) as if walled gardens grew forests. What we're seeing is that they don't. Playstation has celebrated their 30 year anniversary and individual consoles haven't grown much at all. They went from 100m with the PS1 to 117m with the PS4 with a PS2 peak of 150m. Gamers have their head in the sand with the "they sell more than Xbox", and they do, but that doesn't make these metrics good in a market that's been around so long and sees such increasing costs.

@Westernwolf4 tbh we would probably see Sony’s first party games on Switch 2 before Xbox lmao.

One thing I'd like to see is Sony give up it's own VR and have both PlayStation and Xbox support various third party headsets much like the PC ecosystem does.

@themightyant yeah i don’t even try to pretend i know what courts will rule. So i like everyone else have to sit back and watch it unfold. However Sony with the Pro is not losing money and MS is looking to not lose money on the next Xbox. Especially if they allow others to product Xbox’s which is also heavily rumored. MS was losing around $200 on Series X and $100 ish on S and Phil spoke to that not being the case going forward. We all know MS is going to build a Xbox OS and license it out to handhelds and likely others making Xbox’s. They are looking to go software first and Hardware second, which for Sony its pumping out the hardware to see bigger numbers come in on the software. I really like the change of pace MS is heading, sure it will be met with uncertainty and complaints and it’s breaking tradition of over 20 years of business strategy. But that’s ok with me and i think will really open eyes up to loads of dev teams saying we are not locking any software down to just one platform. Sort of like we are seeing with Square. Destin asked about Steam and Phil said they are our friends right down the road from us and they do some really great things using Windows. Then at the end Destin said so it’s confirmed Steam is coming to Xbox and Phil laughed and didn’t deny it. It’s coming, what it will look like and the business angle behind the scenes, i have zero clue. But it’s coming to Xbox!

@Millionski i can’t say i disagree cause at the current moment it seems odd. But we don’t know what they are working on behind the scenes. Likely the rumored Xbox is, that they license out to handhelds and even others that want to make a Xbox/ PC box. Things are changing in a big way on how MS will do Hardware, they are telling us indifferently every time they speak.i can’t say what you are saying is wrong in 2025, but with the next gen i am still betting my house and dog on Steam on Xbox. The bread crumbs for it keep getting laid.

@fatpunkslim i will have to go back and watch, i watched it in bed a night or two ago. But it is worth your time to see my point in real time. 😊

@Cakefish Sony is not one to allow anyone to play their games without their cut. So again i don’t even pretend to say i know the deals, rules and layout of what steam will look like on Xbox. But i am still betting my house and dog it is coming. The next Xbox will be a PC and be very open from the bread crumbs Phil is dropping us.

We're already seeing Sony branching out to PC over the past several years. Plus we've now got LEGO Horizon on Switch. I think it's definitely plausible we'll see Sony release some of their top franchises on Xbox in the future, espcially after all the money they've been losing on those cancelled/failed liveservice games.

@Kaloudz yeah the rules and paper work on Steam coming to Xbox is far ahead of my pay scale. But it’s coming. As for the court case on the 30% cut, i couldn’t even begin to say i know what that looks like either. But it’s things to consider and believe me Sony, MS, Google and Apple are all very interested in that case as it’s a major deal for them.

To your Ecosystem point, thanks s=for sharing that as i have been saying for years, the free cloud saves, Backwards compatibility, controller layout, friends list etc etc is why i love my Xbox. Is it perfect? No! Nothing is. But i truly enjoy it. It’s where i buy all my games outside of Nintendo and PS exclusives. I am all for the amazing games n the lineup. I am a HUGE Gears of War fan. E-Day is my most wanted title in over a decade. So again we fans have the right to spend our money where and how we like. But Xbox is like a small family to me over the last 20 years. All of you on here whether you agree or disagree with me are Xbox players and a part of something i like to share my thoughts, excitement and joy of the entertainment of Xbox. I simply ain’t walking away from it.

@LogicStrikesAgain Anything is possible. I don’t see Sony being ok with Xbox players being able to play their PC ports and not having their say and cut in it. But that is all paperwork behind the scenes out of my wheelhouse. All i know is Steam and other store fronts are coming, Xbox is going to be a open PC with the new Xbox OS that they intend to license out to handhelds and other OEM’s wanting to build Xbox’s. They are for sure going to change it up in a big way with the next Xbox, Phil is leaving us breads crumbs to that all the time. 😊

@anoyonmus Lego Horizon is already on Switch! 😃

Are people here really believing Sony is ever going to give Microsoft an inch 😅 they don't even want to port their live service games, heck they don't even want 3rd party multiplat games on Xbox.

@Westernwolf4 also Freedom Wars Remastered. That one was published by Sony as well.

I said that as soon as Microsoft bought Activision that they would start to wonder why they're selling millions of copies of COD everywhere but not their other games and for Xbox this does make perfect sense. I think any future hardware is going to be more PC based than console, especially if those Steam rumours are true.

Personally I'm happy Xbox are going down this route, I may not have the console anymore but I'm still playing their games on PC and because they're developed with PC in mind, I'm playing Indiana Jones with path tracing

@Prestige-worldwide perhaps this is a change of strategy but Indiana Jones is £10 less on Steam, as is Starfield, FH5 is £5 less but with CD Keys, even if a game is the same price I can still get it cheaper, Doom The Dark Ages is £52 for example that way

@Isolte Sorry to say this, but you don't seem to know that Xbox runs on a customized version of Windows, and the next OS for Xbox consoles will be much closer to Windows. In fact, Microsoft is working on an OS and an interface that will be identical whether you are on a Windows PC, Xbox, mobile, TV, etc...

So, I really don't see what technically prevents Xbox from integrating Steam. Moreover, in the interview, Phil Spencer did not deny the rumors about this when Destin asked him about the integration of Steam. He said they were in discussions and hinted, without confirming, that it was possible.

I also think that this is why Phil communicates so much about Xbox games on PS, to better ease the acceptance of Steam games on Xbox (and thus PS games). This communication is not trivial.

@themightyant Phil has already stated that he would like choice and other stores on the Xbox tho. Granted he mentioned Epic in that case. But the Steam rumors on Xbox just keep heating up, and no one at Steam nor MS has shut it down yet. I think by 2030 the whole industry outside of Nintendo and maybe PS will be playing everywhere. I don’t think we will see to much more timed deals on 3rd party. The money is everywhere, exclusives don’t make sense in today’s market if you are trying to make profits and keep your game played against the likes of a COD, Fortnite, Apex, Roblox etc etc A good example i seen the other day was Killzone. Everyone knows PS gamers prefer single player games. Imagine if a Killzone was on PC and Xbox? Maybe it would have found the players on those platforms and Sony would have a successful IP there instead of one that is now dead. To me that is how IP’s and dev teams are going to stay in business and not go away against the likes of the big every month hitters. 😊

@HonestHick The idea that PS gamers prefer single player games is such tired nonsense, IF it was true then why are sales and download charts still dominated by multiplayer games. Why did COD6 still sell incredibly well on PS if they all prefer single player games, its just a silly narrative.

The only reason the likes of Killzone and other franchises fell off is that they cannot compete with the juggernauts like COD / Battlefield and even free to play stuff like fortnite now. Those frnachise can bring out games / content so rapidly that smaller entries simply are not able to compete, regardless of how many platforms they target.

Simpy put its not even worth trying to compete in that area, when Horizon is a much easier way to print money with little competition.

@HonestHick As always my friend, I couldn't agree more with everything you said. You hit the nail on the head so much there, you may as well have been my conscience.

You are looking in the wrong place, @Prestige-worldwide! No one buys a AAA game on Steam! They buy it via CDKeys.com. As an example, Doom: The Dark Ages is £69.99 if bought through the Xbox Store, but if bought through CDKeys.com for Steam, the price is £52.99 for exactly the same version. The Premium Edition of South of Midnight is £49.99 on the Xbox and £35.99 on CDKeys.com.

I don't understand what you mean by convenience though. I buy pretty much all my games via CDKeys, and when I buy a game on the Xbox Store, I use an Xbox Gift Cards bought on CDKeys. A £50 costs me £46.99 (a saving of 6.02%), thus any game I do buy on the Xbox store I effectively buy with a 6.02% discount, which if you buy as many games as I do soon mounts up. Everything is very convenient to me, as the codes are instantly available (barring pre-orders) and I just copy and paste them into the Xbox Store on my PC. It takes about 30 seconds, but as can be seen from the above, can save you a considerable amount. £14 is not to sniffed at, in my view, and if all it means is that I'll be playing it on Steam on an Xbox (were the Prime to have Steam on it), but not via my Xbox account, then that is fine by me. And that £14, is not just one game, is usually every game, though not all are available to buy through CDKeys, which is where the Gift Cards come in instead...

@themightyant I very much think next gen will be expensive, something like:

• Switch 2 - $499
• Xbox and PS handheld - $599
• Next gen Xbox and PS6 - $799 (no disc drive)

@FarmDog08 yes agree, but it's not my thing how xbox exclusivity is slowly disappearing, I will always keep buying xbox consoles I love xbox since 2003 but personally I will never get used to xbox games on other brands, that's actually the only thing I will never get used to but other than that nothing changes, about my gaming experience because I'm on an xbox.

@XBOX045 I'm actually very similar to you, believe it or not. I've been with Xbox since 2008 and it's all I game on now. I have a switch, but I barely touch it. All my games are digital. I'll invest in the next generation at some point, but even if this is Xbox's swan song in regards to consoles, I will happily keep playing what I own now until the end of my days. I'm 42 now and know I won't be gaming forever anyway. For now, I'm very happy with my Series X and what Microsoft is doing.

Timed exclusives is the answer for everyone. If Xbox and playstation made all their games timed exclusives, say a year for instance. You'll still be giving your player base the first crack at your first party games when they're new and hot, which will still incentivize hardware sales. But if you're like me who owns a SX and will never own a playstation, you can get some bonus revenue by moving it over after a year and getting some sales from an audience you can't possibly sell to because they don't own your product. Kinda blends the best of both worlds.

@Ilyn you are half way right. Yes everyone knows that the causal COD fan buys a PS and buys COD, maybe even FIFA or Madden. Those numbers are there. So are a few other shooters. But where you might not be as informed is the other website and loads of PS YouTubers constantly say they don’t play online games, they but PS for singe player 1st party. Go over to the other website and look at the hardcore PS fan base. They dislike online games, they want and are screaming for Sony to return to single player games.so yes you aren’t wrong in saying the average Joe or Average Jane plays COD on the PS. But the Hardcore PS fan care less about those games and want their movie like $200 million dollar plus budget single player games only.

@Kaloudz hey buddy you and many others on here are my Xbox Family. You keep the post on point and always share your excitement for the brand and the upcoming games. I do not intend to leave that any time soon. And a little bonus we are going to get to play with is the fact Sony is going to port PS4 games to the Switch 2. Just sit back and watch it unfold. Get your we told you so’s ready. Haha

@HonestHick I would still disagree with you on that front. What fans are calling for is that the studios be left to create games that align with their expertise, rather than the everything must be live service push which happened a few years back.

No one is saying we don't ever want another multiplayer game. they are asking why where studios like Bluepoint where working on a live service GoW rather than just doing something in their wheelhouse.

@Ilyn again I mostly agree. But I read and watch a lot of the hardcore fans and this is what i see them saying. However yes anyone that knows Bluepoint games would think that was a dumb move and it was. Sony needs to get roasted on MS level for that one. The thing that sucks is we might not even see a game from Bluepoint or Sony bend now until PS6. That’s disappointing.

@HonestHick Haha, yeah - even though they already released LEGO Horizon to Switch O_o But for some reason, it's cool to hate on Xbox lol. The day you mention will come. Until then we'll just have to sit back and wait. Glad you're doing well my man!

You might need to think again on how long you game for, @FarmDog08. I'm 19 years your senior, and still game every single day for multiple hours.

In 2024 I played for a total of 2193 hours on my Xbox (that does not include time spent on my PC or PS5, and which would also account for over 1000 hours). That's an average of 6 hours a day on my Xbox alone, and there was a month when I was playing Stellar Blade during that time! I'm retired with a chronic back condition, and my wife died approaching 3 years ago, and so Xbox is how I entertain myself as I'm not really into television. My point being, even though I am now into my 62nd year, I have no intention of slowing down with the amount of time I spend gaming (arthritis be damned!!), so you may think your Xbox console will see out the time you spend gaming, but you will probably want at least one more to come... 😉

It's frustrating how this is spreading like wildfire. People seem to forget WHY Xbox is doing this and how can it be made any more clear? Xbox is doing this because they conned consumers and lost consumer trust. I, thus, pose the question: When Sega went multiplatform, did Nintendo and Sony follow then?

Xbox isn't some great prognosticator, they're screw-ups. Ask an Xbot this last year and you'd have been met with a hellish backlash, but because Xbox was forced to go this route, suddenly, everyone has to play nice?

Xbox feared Sonys threat, and has been the case since the very idea of conception of the Xbox when Bill Gates feared the PS2 would be the marketing tactic PlayStation set out to convey, that PS2 was a supercomputer and Bill Gates feared the PS2 would take over the living room. (Bill Gates was nerdy enough to have figured and saw in his mind, people doing their taxes and spreadsheets on their living room TV on a PS2, but he didn't seem to think it was just a console and DVD player). Xbox has always had this fear. So, with PlayStation getting as close to Activision as they were, playing Xbox's game of Call of Duty content released first on PlayStation and Bungie devs showing favoritism toward PlayStation with Destiny, Xbox was fearful. What did they do? Went to Microsoft asking them to dig into their deep pockets for a bailout, which parent company happily ablidged, and offered an absurd number they knew PlayStation couldn't match, and Sony didn't but instead battled out in court what would profit them most.... Which was a dying Call of Duty anyway and that's exactly what showed. Microsoft over spent on Activision, Call of Duty wasn't profitable and Microsoft wanted their money back but Phil Spencer couldn't deliver so Microsoft called back their favor and Nadela decreed Xbox would pa to back the investment through multiplatform. This isn't some forward thinking plan, it's: "we're dead. Activision wasn't worth $69 billion, but it was an offer Sony wouldn't match. But it doesn't matter because Activision is a dying breed. If it was so profitable, we kind of wouldn't be in this kind of situation.

But, that's only half of the equation. With the announcement of Xbox One, it was the start. Xbox has always been using their consumers as guinea pigs. Remember when they wanted to boost Xbox Live to $120/yr? PlayStation laughed with a: Good luck with that one! Xbox then did as they usually did to loyal fanbase when met with the backlash they couldn't get away with. "Ohhhhhhh. We're sorry. We're reversing our policy. You see, we hear you. We're using your feedback to make a console for you, by you." And wash rise repeat every time Xbox wanted to pull something on their consumers to see if they'd sucker for it. PlayStation was doing it right from the getgo. No imposed restrictions or DRM, consumer control of media, hardware options, etc. THATS LISTENING, that's being connected with consumers and be educated in what the market is and wants

@XBOX045 - How do you think Sega fans feel about Sonic on a Nintendo console, to this day? Same thing

@neoxmahi i switched from sega in 2003 to xbox so yes i can feel that but that doesn't mean i will ever accept and like this in my life, even though i always play xbox now i will never like this and accept that this happens, but my gaming experience won't change because i play on the xbox anyway