Banjo-Kazooie Revival Would Be 'Instantly Hated' By Some Fans, Says Original Composer

"I hope that last tweet didn’t come across as mean, the Banjo fanverse is a wonderful thing, the reaction when Banjo got into Smash Bros. is something I’ll remember for the rest of my life."

He knows full and well that he dragged down the fan-base in that first tweet, and practically discredited anyone that's either working on it or is yet to work on it. What a moron.

There's plenty of talented devs that could absolutely make this work well. Do I agree with Moon Studios saying it would rival Mario in sales? No. But a brand new Banjo game on Xbox / PS and Switch would certainly come very close if executed correctly imo.

Under one of Xbox best or paid third party correct studios a new Banjo-Kazooie would amazing for this generation. Great visuals smooth 60fps and tremendous gameplay.

Obviously playtronic and toys for bob come to mind. Probably a 4 year turn around if they get on it as a single player game only with all employees at the studio working on this and nothing else.

@OldGamer999 Four years sounds about right to me. Could be less if they are able to take assets from other MS projects. I know the studios can send each other assets and packs seamlessly (FH4 used the water from SoT which was decided over dinner between the dev teams and took just a few days to share).

The problem is that it has been so long since a Banjo game came out that many people have no nostalgia for it. When something has been gone that long you would have to release a pretty special game for it get peoples attention. I'm not saying it can't be done but the expectation from the guy expecting it to do Mario kind of numbers wasn't being realistic. Microsoft is sitting on loads of long dormant once popular game series though and they seem reluctant to try and use many.

Considering how bad Nuts & Bolts was alongside all of Rare's output since like 2006 (I'm talking about quality, not sales) have been, fans would be right to be sceptical.

Fully disagree. Why be so pessimistic? There’s been potential for a great, true Banjo 3 for the past 20+ years now. There are so many great developers that could work on it. Why just assume the worst?

Modern 3D platformers like Mario Odyssey, Bowser’s Fury, Psychonauts 2, Astro Bot, the Crash/Spyro remasters, and more have proven the monumental quality and success this genre can bring. I say give Banjo another chance.

I don't think there is that much of an audience for a new banjo. Maybe I'm wrong but I think this is a case of a small audience being loud about it.

This composer brings up a good point, you would have to attempt to appease the old fans (which will be hard) but ultimately attract new fans as well (also tough). There is zero chance it reaches mario success. Even crash 4's five million copies feels out of reach.

I don't see banjo ever becoming a strong ip again. Maybe it gets a remaster maybe a new game but I think it's one and done if anything does happen.

@themightyant Astro Bot shows that you don't need to have hundreds of Devs and countless years to make a hit. Especially in the platform space.

In regards to a remaster - I think a solid Crash 1-3 style remaster would go down a treat for a primer.

That's not at all a controversial statement.

Given the divisiveness of Tooie, the apathy towards Grunty's Revenge and the continued vitriol towards Nuts & Bolts, I absolutely think Kirkhope's statement has some validity - more than people here will want to admit.

@N00BiSH It stunned me just how bad of a game Tooie was on replay a couple of years ago.

I loved the original two a lot growing up but only the first one is a genuinely good game imo.

Absolutely true. I can already feel my blood boiling on a thing from the past changing. I'm not even over 360 blades being gone! I am a poison in this earth: toxic.

I would play Banjo in Game pass.

Microsoft:

*Buys various well-loved devs

*Basically abandons their established franchises and pretty much wastes them until the original team leaves

=PROFIT??

We want Banjo 3

I'd love to see a new Banjo game come out. At this point, people invested in Banjo and still being big game players are going to be small numbers imo, so making it appeal to newcomers would be the way to go to make such an iconic character recapture his place in people's hearts.
Astro and Mario show there is still plenty of love for games of this type and its always great to have a a mascot for a brand that's fun and appealing.
I doubt it's going to happen, but I'd be excited if it did!

He's not entirely wrong. Look what happened to Yooka-Laylee.

@N00BiSH Tooie was very well-received in its day (90 on Metacritic, as an example!), and though its reputation has diminished a bit, that seems to be mainly to do with the huge levels causing excessive wandering and backtracking, not the BK formula itself. The original BK is still widely regarded as a true classic.

And then Grunty's Revenge was a scaled-down 2D rendition on the GBA (good for what it was, but it was never going to touch the original), and Nuts & Bolts wasn't even a platformer, so that doesn't mean much.

If you had said Yooka-Laylee, then I'd be inclined to agree with you!
Though even there, not all of YL's criticisms were based on its faithfulness to the original material.

Many of us would be happy with a new BK, as long as it's good. And- I shouldn't have to say this- it should be a platformer, not a vehicle game with Lego building!

@smoreon Tooie was well-received at launch, yes, but nowadays people are split on whether or not it's additions either enhance the experience or bloat and hinder it. Grunty's Revenge, while decent wasn't all that remarkable - enough that most people tend to ignore its existence. And the fact that you yourself are so averse to Nuts & Bolts still proves that there's still vitriol towards that title regardless of any positive qualities it possessed.

Really, nothing you've said here actively diminishes the point I made, or Grant's point for that matter - that most fans wouldn't be satisfied with a new Banjo unless it was exactly like that first one, with no unnecessary hitches, which itself is a flawed idea I feel.

As someone who has no nostalgia for Banjo Kazooie because I only played them for the first time not that long ago, Banjo Kazooie is a lot of fun, but Tooie is horrible and did not age well at all.

But!! I don't understand all of the doom and gloom towards bringing back Banjo Kazooie. It doesn't NEED to beat Mario, or make Astrobot levels of sales. It only needs to become relevant again and remind people that Xbox can have an identity separate but just as unique as Nintendo and Sony.

Lots of Banjo talk lately. The other day that it could rival Mario numbers. I don’t think it would rival Mario’s numbers but I do think it could do well. Now “instantly hated by fans,” I don’t think it would be hated. There will be a split within the fanbase. You’ll never make everybody happy, but if given to the right developer, it could do well and please a lot of fans. Really depends on who makes it because there’s a lot of variables involved in that.

He isn't wrong. So many games are met with hatred and opposition now. What happened?

@N00BiSH To clarify, I do agree with your original point, but only because of the mixed reception that Yooka-Laylee got (as it was a pretty faithful, if flawed, successor to BK). It makes no sense to use the audience's reception of spin-off titles as a way to gauge their opinion of the main series, though, and I don't think Tooie proves enough one way or another.

I'm confident that a Banjo-Threeie that properly respects and builds on the original game would be a success, both critically and commercially. It wouldn't please everyone, of course, but it'd do well. Of course, that all goes out the window if the devs decide to turn it into an online roguelite RTS royale with sport sim elements instead!

PS: I'm not averse to Nuts & Bolts as a game! It's just not Banjo-Kazooie at all, besides some surface-level presentation/homage elements.

It can go either way really. I but I can see why with 'but it's not how I remember it or doesn't do the same'. Crash 4 was fair, didn't play but I think took the right angle.

Nuts and Bolts was an interesting direction I don't deny that. But then again the messaging in it felt weird too and to me felt insulting.

The gameplay while different wasn't bad I think just well different.

With how boring Indie platformers are to me (probably fine to others but not me) I assume the fanbases for many platformers are just as bad even if I only dip in on occasion to some of my favourites, very few are open minded unsurprisingly but those that are and understand or respect aspects of even the bad ones shows 'some are willing to' at least.

But I'm not emotionally phased by a game/characters either. I don't use nostalgia as an excuse. I use game design quality as a reason for a game.

I am more open minded but I still point out what I don't like of Indies just being bland and too inspired and not putting enough of themselves in their own projects too. Harsh as it is I think it's necessary to separate their nostalgia/favourite parts or 'oh the characters' yet eh level design/movesets and missions/worlds, look good, play boringly.

I want them to put what they learnt or think that further out of the box but offer what they can of their own skills at their level into them.

Problem is I don't see that outcome, more empty games or more not enough of the inspirations had even at 'their level' and see it repeated of just bland platformers/modders or fan game kind of execution even in finished products and it annoys me a lot among Indies in the platformer space. The platformer space by Indies to me sucks.

I've seen better racing games that do stand out or puzzle games that 'do' put their effort in among a lot of garbage in those genres too I ignore. I've been just as critical of racing games yet finally found some that do meet the level they can and do stand out like they should not just recycling over and over.

Platformers i see the same repetitive garbage and it's frustrating.

@smoreon While I'm glad you don't disagree with my point, I do feel the need to clarify that GR and N&B aren't spin-offs? They're different from Kazooie and Tooie, but they've always been considered mainline titles by Rare - justifiably so, given how they both follow the established collectathon formula(and yes, N&B is technically a collectathon at its core - just with a very different plan and execution).

Also, while I'm sure there'd be an interest in a new Banjo, it doesn't change the fact that a new one is very unlikely nowadays. A lot of the core devs behind those games left Rare, who have gone in a different direction, while Microsoft is pretty much just all talk and no follow-through.