@AverageGamer I wish I had your optimism but not a chance - clearly this sudden change of direction has been forced by the money men (the CFO for example) so there's no way they'll agree even more expenditure (and the likely regulatory clashes and legal costs) to pick up more publishers when many are scaling back themselves.
Given no ABK games have reached Game Pass yet I doubt any new acquisition would have much benefit to us gamers anytime soon anyway - and definitely not enough to stem the feeling of slow decline this decision has brought on
@Titntin Nice, yeah I've seen them I'm just hoping they've got the DualSense features as I'm intrigued by the triggers etc.
It's why I was getting quite excited by the new Xbox controller that's (I hope still) coming - and yes comfort with the controller is why I'll still get a good amount of use of my XSX.
Worst case, I'll just get used to the PS5 controller - it is bigger than the PS4 one which should help.
I'll likely get the PS5 Pro as a starting point back into their ecosystem after the PS4, as I've not got one of the "refreshed" consoles before in any generation so thinking if I've waited this long I might as well wait for the "best" version of the PS5.
I'll still be enjoying Game Pass (unless they change something around GP in which case we'll see) on my XSX and my backlog, then we'll see with the run up to next generation if I do bother with the next Xbox - I suspect I'll get both as I'm slightly too into Forza Horizon to wait a year for it to reach PlayStation...
It'll just suck a little on that next-gen Xbox - it already feels bad at times being on the last-place console when third-parties skip us, and if this does proceed as feared then that's just going to get worse as more gamers choose PlayStation so they can get both sets of games (in time)
I've generally been a big fan of Phil, and I do think he's a gamer at heart and that's good for Xbox - and he did improve things considerably after the awful Xbox One launch.
However, both in communication around this, and in general management I do have to wonder if he's actually done that great a job - yes there's been great innovations like Game Pass, and there's been acquisitions, but the key thing - games - just hasn't reached the level needed.
We needed Halo Infinite, Starfield, Forza Motorsport and so many others to be Sony-quality AAA experiences - I enjoyed them, but they're not that, the only big one that's come close really has been Forza Horizon 5.
Given how many studios Xbox now has, how many developers and how much resource it had, it's insane that they've not been able to get at least as many games out as Sony have in the last 5 or 6 years, and very few reaching the heights of true AAA.
It feels like an epic management fail, that we're now going to pay for by our exclusives going to PlayStation with nothing in return
@BrilliantBill I more meant it's PR 101 - you kill the story dead before it gets out of hand.
Yes it already got out of hand in the gaming media, but now it's going to start hitting mainstream news so casual gamers and parents will see it - so it's going to impact brand value and likely console sales (as you can bet if the update is a boring "case-by-case basis" corporate-speak "Xbox gamers you're still our priority" it won't be as widely reported so the public will just remember the headlines "Xbox is dead?" etc.)
@StonyKL I actually have no issue with your scenario, if MS could also help Sony sort out their services (for example free cloud saves).
My biggest gripe moving over would be the controller, so a DualSense with the Xbox layout would be ideal for me!
I'll always have a soft spot for Xbox given my uni days of Halo 3 online with large groups of housemates and friends, and be a little sore how Sony leveraged their market dominance to help finish Xbox off after the One debacle, but at this point I'm fed up of console wars and not getting all the games PlayStation gets so would love such a utopian future
(Game Pass and my Xbox purchases coming over would be great too in that utopia, but I imagine my XSX will live a long enough live for me to enjoy my purchases when I wanted to anyway)
@Kaloudz I think record high console users is just because the old generation has stayed playable much longer - so you've got One, Series and even 360 users still playing.
PlayStation have a similar phenomenon, where the huge PS4 install base is joining the large PS5 install base to give them a vast potential player base at the moment
If it was that rosy, we wouldn't suddenly be having a "business update" when none of us thought much was wrong.
I agree I think (and hope) Game Pass changes are unlikely, but if all recent / new games go over after 6/12/24 months (including tentpole titles like Gears remastered collection or a new Halo game) then it'll seriously undermine console sales.
"Case by case" screws us too as people will roll the dice on many Xbox games they like coming over as they pick up a PlayStation - only "small and live service" games would work but that's unlikely as they'd have said it by now.
Why get an Xbox when you can get a PlayStation with their exclusives plus much better third party support?
Yes some Xbox consoles will still be sold, and they'll probably still have hardware for a while yet - but as the install base dwindles as the PS5 increases its dominance over the Series consoles, and the next generation it gets even worse, only bigger third party games may take the risk of porting over - leaving Xbox as a true "first party" machine only us enthusiasts will want...
It does just feel like throwing the towel in without waiting to see if taking over the CoD marketing would have finally started to turn the tide...
On the plus side it's convinced me that I'll buy a PS5 Pro if it releases later this year - I'll keep Game Pass for indies that I love and to try games, but a more powerful PS5 Pro will likely handle the games better (even Xbox ones), and I might as well catch up on PlayStation and third party games I've missed sticking with Xbox.
I do seriously hope if they go this route they at least get their act together - Forza Motorsport released with minimal content, Redfall was a mess and even Forza Horizon 5 launched with major server issues.
We cannot be the beta testers for PlayStation who get complete, bug-free versions after we've put up with all the issues...
@Stamnoso The problem if Xbox games go to PlayStation 6/12/24 months later or they say "case by case", it'll impact console sales (the latter as many may take a punt on a game they like eventually reaching PlayStation).
Yes casuals who don't know what's going on / don't care and us fans will still buy a new console potentially, but anyone who's into gaming but can only afford one console / anyone who normally gets both but doesn't mind waiting won't.
The danger with that is Xbox falls even further behind the PS5 (then PS6), with the install base becoming small enough that only the biggest third party games will be ported to it - so less games, making it less attractive so less console sales and so less third party games.
It won't kill Xbox consoles today, and potentially never as they may become mini-PCs (hopefully!) or just first-party only machines, but it really screws us owners in terms of our libraries being locked here, it reduces our choice as it'll impact the console sales so even less third party games arrive and we get to beta test games for PlayStation users - as many Xbox games have released either lacking in content or with issues that need fixing...
The only way they avoid this is by confirming it's just small games like HiFi Rush or live service games like Sea of Thieves - but if that was the case we wouldn't need a "business update"...
The analysis in it (where they voice their opinion), suggests basically a default of every new / recent game across the business including Xbox Game Studios going to PlayStation after a year or two, with few exceptions - or it'll be a wide selection from across Xbox.
Either way, it fits closely with the sheer variety of games we've heard discussed by trusted news sites, while potentially avoiding the worst case scenario of Day 1 ports or bad changes to Game Pass (although can't rule that out I guess ).
It's still pretty terrible for console sales, given only casual gamers could buy only an Xbox next generation and not miss out as the smaller install base = only the biggest third party games being ported, but they'll likely still make a cloud-boosted mid-power console us fan boys can have alongside a PC or PS6.
It's not the future any of us wanted, with ABK ideally having closed a year or so earlier and allowed Xbox to kick into high gear instead of that radio silence, and maybe start to emulate the 360 generation - instead it seems MS are pressuring Xbox to act more like the parent company and gracefully release everything everywhere, annoyingly giving "victory" to the most anti-consumer, nickel and diming Sony I've seen in a decade or two...
@theduckofdeath Yeah that's why they need to kill this story much faster - every YouTuber, streamer, gaming site and maybe news site is going to cover this endlessly all week with more and more outlandish theories, damaging discussions and "business analysis".
The Xbox brand will take a hammering, and if his update (as is most likely) ends up being a boring update about just a few games at the moment, it won't get as much coverage so all the majority of people will remember is the "is Xbox dead?" discourse.
And that's even more lethal for future console sales than the current playing field where PS5 has dominance in exclusives, brand awareness and cultural cachet...
@Kaloudz Given the thousands upon thousands of reactions across gaming media, social media and comments / forums, this statement won't stop the circus.
Indeed, with comment from Xbox now I suspect even BBC News and other major sites will pick up the rumours and the "business update coming next week" which will probably lead to those mini-comment boxes in them "Is this the end of Xbox?" etc and bad headlines that casuals will read.
I'm really hoping they do some calming noises before then, via back channels, bringing events forward or saying something - but I get the feeling there's still a major battle happening internally over the breadth of this which is why they're delaying.
Stupidly bad PR - let this get even wilder and out of hand for another week...
We've already had respected outlets suggesting HiFi Rush, Starfield, Indiana Jones, Sea of Thieves and potentially Hellblade 2.
Meanwhile the rumour mill is already going nuts that the next Halo will go multi-platform, as will Gears of War (I'm guessing the rumoured collection), and potentially all future Xbox releases - and even crazy things like Game Pass losing Day 1 (and their worries over GP explaining why ABK games and particularly CoD haven't reached it yet, plus the suggestion they might try ads or an ad-supported tier).
That's in one day - they give this over a week and we'll end up with truly crazy rumours...
@Kaloudz If it was good news he'd say so - even if it's not as bad as the many rumours going around you think they'd quash some of them via off-the-record chats with Jez Corden and Tom Warren and others.
Instead all we have is confirmation it's at least as bad as feared (SoT, HiFi Rush, Indiana Jones and Starfield porting over) and potentially as bad as the worst rumours with them not being stopped (Gears / Gears collection going over, Halo next game, all recent / new games going over, even Game Pass stopping Day 1 and it's why we've not seen CoD or ABK games on it yet).
It just screams bad PR - stories like this need putting to bed instantly so they don't get out of hand, letting them run on and get out of control for over a week till a "business update" that we didn't realise we needed...
Phil has apparently tweeted they'll lay out the future vision for Xbox next week - PushSquare has the story and the link to the tweet.
Weirdly, the tweet is still accessible but not in Phil's list - but it is the right profile, not a fake one...
I assume they're withdrawing it realising it's insane to wait a week with this crazy rumour mill - particularly given "the future of Xbox" is mentioned so sounds ominous...
@Kaloudz I might be misreading Jez's post, but it seems upper MS management have decided hardware is becoming pointless in the new world of handheld PCs, streaming etc and may port pretty much all XSX games:
I really hope he doesn't mean exactly that - but the brave new world part suggests it, and the fact there's no immediate denials from Xbox (which would be easy if only a few were going over) does suggest to me they're putting together a full response to get ahead of this...
@Kaloudz It's not a small number if the rumours are true - out of 7 first-party console exclusives in 2023 and 2024, 4 would be going to PlayStation too.
Hellblade 2, Indiana Jones, HiFi Rush and Starfield, with only Avowed, Redfall and Forza Motorsport staying exclusive (and those last 2 didn't really review / sell well, even if I do like the racing in FM).
That's well over half of Xbox's output for 2 years.
Even the other exclusive for 2024, Stalker 2, is said to have just a 3 month exclusivity window.
It's not a great look when a company has given us so few exclusives for years (barely anything in 2022 for example) is now giving away most of the ones it's offering us...
@datamonkey Yep it's already been picked up by Metro GameCentral and a bunch of other tabloids in the UK, which means it's moved beyond the gamersphere.
Once Xbox finally comment, then if there's any truth at all (and there has to be some, given the HiFi Rush datamine for example) I suspect even BBC News will pick up the story.
You'd have thought they'd have had a press release ready in case it leaked that someone could pull the trigger on soon, rather than waiting for 5/6PM in the UK and Europe for MS to finally start work in Seattle and react to this...
Am slightly concerned that out of the first-party exclusives for 2023 and 2024, the rumours are potentially 4 out of 7 going across:
Starfield
HiFi Rush
Indiana Jones
Hellblade 2
Leaving us with just Redfall, Forza Motorsport and Avowed as true exclusives (assuming they don't go over).
Before that, in this generation we've only had 5 other first-party exclusives as far as I can recall - Pentiment, FH5, Halo Infinite, Flight Sim and Grounded...
After years of "next year will be better" with Xbox, this year is already looking barren exclusives-wise until the second half and it sounds like every one in the future we'll be thinking "oh when / if will PlayStation get it?" - which does suck as an Xbox owner when you know you won't be getting any PlayStation exclusives in return
@Lightning720 They won't stay silent for long - it's all over the gaming media (whether you use sites like this, or the younger crowds with YouTube etc.) and eventually will reach the tabloid press and even mainstream news sites.
It's too much of a risk having "Xbox exclusives to be released on PlayStation" or "Is Xbox dying?!" headlines all over the place as even casuals see them and it affects their purchasing decisions.
As for them knowing what they're doing, I've no doubt the money men have crunched the numbers, realised they'll make way more money releasing a lot more games on PlayStation, and (probably correctly) surmising most Xbox players will stomach it for now.
The next generation is too far away for them to worry about that decision point for now, better to get returns for the shareholders - the concern is, by the time we get to the next gen and console sales are miniscule as most gamers choose the PS6 as it has both, many of the current management and even shareholders will be long gone and it'll be someone else's issue.
Or they're counting on by then xCloud being good enough they can pivot to "we're on every screen everywhere" which sucks for those of us who like their consoles
This mostly reflects my feelings - while for the developers and other gamers I'm glad PS players will get to try games like HiFi Rush, and get the next instalment of Hellblade, I mostly fear for Xbox.
I much prefer the Xbox controller layout, and while I've got a lot of digital purchases on my PS4 I've mostly stuck with Xbox over the years as it's where I've had my best memories and I've generally preferred their UI, openness and exclusives.
If this was happening because PlayStation exclusives were coming our way, or some big ruling had enforced "all games must be on all platforms" or something silly like that, I'd probably be much happier - instead this does feel a bit like MS are giving in and going where the money is.
Yes casuals will still buy Xbox, yes those who always have all 3 will buy Xbox, and those looking for a bargain Game Pass machine. And those we already own for the most part aren't going anywhere.
But in the next generation, when the tech-savvy early adopters pick their poison, the list of reasons to go PS over Xbox has got a little larger (better exclusives, more third-party support, "cooler" - now got Xbox games too) and I fear that will lead to much fewer sales out of the gate.
At that point, if say 75% of new consoles next generation as PlayStation and 25% are Xbox then the narrative continues to be "Xbox is dying" and we get less third-party games and the casuals buying consoles after the early-adopters mostly go PS too, so that the skew towards PS gets even heavier (like PS5 to XS was likely 60/40 in the early days, now 2 to 1 and increasing as PS5 stock issues have been sorted)
@Kaloudz That's the issue - Xbox often lets bad news leak then after it gets to a head finally speaks up.
They're generally pretty good for positive communications - apart from being really bad at just fronting up and saying "yes we don't have any games for the first half of this year, despite our one-a-quarter pledge" which is annoying given we had a Developer Direct of 4 games for this whole year, when PS had a State of Play with more than that for this quarter (admittedly third party exclusives).
But they need to shut this down fast - it's already all over gaming news, commentators, streamers etc. and will likely reach mainstream news soon (or will once MS confirm something).
If they don't come out with a specific ruleset of what goes where and when, and some positive news for Xbox gamers from it (I don't think there is any) then even casual gamers reading BBC News will see "Xbox to release games on PlayStation" with the "case by case basis" in the text.
That'll reinforce the "is this the death of Xbox?" stuff on YouTube / gaming sites etc. and from having worked in retail years ago it can filter through to casuals who come in with a vague grasp of what's happening and why they "definitely don't want an Xbox as I heard they're closing, show me the PlayStation or Nintendo areas".
It's not great mood music when we were expecting a strong showing after the ABK close, and we're already suffering a lack of first-party / strong third-party exclusive games for 2022 and the first 6 months of many years it seems (including this one), and when we do finally get them they're often not as polished / great as they should be, bar FH5...
@themightyant I'm not saying it'll kill Xbox any time soon - I suspect they'll continue to push for the casual market with cheaper consoles than Sony, and I still know people with 360s who've only just got a One, so the current install base will be around for a while yet.
It just makes the "which console should I buy?" question even more tilted in PS's favour, which it was already by their better exclusives, more third-party support and the cultural cache they've acquired.
It'll likely not make much difference to the final figures between PS5 and XSS|X, as PS5 does appear to be dominating and this would only maybe impact say at most 10% of sales which is what the money men are count on.
But next generation (and this is where my main concern is, @Kaloudz), when it's time for the passionate early adopters (who are more likely to be engaged around exclusives etc.) to choose their console it'll make even more go PS first for the reasons already discussed.
Many of us may still grab one as a Game Pass machine or because we prefer the Xbox ecosystem / UI / controller, but it'll likely cause the next console to lose even harder to the PS6 which will be riding the crest of a wave like the PS5 has thanks to the PS4.
And at that point, I do worry if MS stays in hardware long term or has enough of a following left that they can bring everyone to xCloud when streaming becomes the default - or whether yes, they become a publisher and Sony gets to rule the roost and be as anti-consumer as they like
For those who get every console every generation (I've usually been one, and it looks like I will be again this generation as I'm likely to finally be tempted if Sony release a PS5 Pro) then it doesn't make much difference.
They can still use the Xbox for Game Pass and playing the exclusives day one (although it does feel a little like we've been beta testers for Starfield while PlayStation will get a tidy version!).
For casual gamers, it might not matter too much where they play FIFA, CoD or Fortnite - but they'll probably go where their friends are, and unfortunately there's normally one in a group who's more "into" gaming and they'll follow them.
The gamers who can only afford one console and do like the non-"casual" games though are much more likely now to go PlayStation (more than they already were - it already felt like an uphill battle for Xbox) as they'll get all the PS exclusives, some number of Xbox games and a lot more third-party support...
(And if this impacts console sales, it'll reduce the financial incentives for publishers to port games to Xbox, meaning we miss out on even more third-party games and it becomes a vicious cycle where there becomes even less reason that gamers would pick Xbox).
Game Pass helps a bit yes, but casuals don't really care (they don't play enough different games to make it worthwhile) and others will either have an Xbox alongside their PS / will use PC or cloud (in time) or just use PS Plus which hasn't been too bad in the last year either (Essential in particular)
@Kaloudz There's strong rumours about Hellblade 2 too, which could be justified as a "the previous game was on PlayStation".
But that means of the 4 games from the Developer Direct, 1 is PC only and 2 are potentially going to PlayStation too (Hellblade and Indiana Jones) - that's a pretty weak year for making someone in the market now want to buy an Xbox.
The "case by case" line kills Xbox - as it leads to a hope that X or Y might jump over. They have to come out with very specific rules about what could be ported, but I suspect they won't and it's because the money men appear to be winning...
The rumours from Jez and others is that there's a big battle going on between those thinking you shouldn't screw your loyal customers, and those seeing the earning potential from releasing games on the massive PlayStation install base - with much of this likely leaked (apart from the HiFi Rush t-shirts) by those trying to fight the money men.
The console install base isn't going to disappear overnight - those of us with one will likely keep it, and those that get sold will be picked up cheap by others and get used, and those who just have their Xbox for Fortnite / CoD / FIFA won't really care.
The money men appear to be thinking that this move won't affect console sales in future either, or reduce the install base next generation when we all have to pick again - and that's the fatal mistake that Jez Corden has pointed out, that next gen there's little reason to stick Xbox so the console sales plummet and eventually the money men go "well it's not worth staying in the hardware business" as the revenues from console players reduce.
Or it could just be the money men are betting the income from selling games to PlayStation gamers can make up any losses from Xbox gamers until the cloud comes along...
@XboxistheBestBox I really doubt it - once this approach takes hold, Xbox console sales are going to be limited to casual gamers who just want a console to play Fortnite / FIFA / CoD, and those who want a Game Pass machine / get every console every generation.
Series consoles are already not selling great, having a spike around Starfield but apparently lagging far behind PS5 especially when they had the big discounts when the "fat" one was discontinued - which not even similar discounts on the XSX seems to have help with much.
It's 2 to 1 at the moment, and it's likely not worth the cost to Sony to port their games to Xbox (they've similar hardware but quite different underlying operating systems / code libraries) particularly given the blowback they'd get from their fans.
I suspect PC a year or two later is more than enough for them revenue wise at the moment.
And I say all of this as someone who would love exclusives to be a thing of the past, and be able to play Spider Man 2 on my XSX with an Xbox pad with DualSense features (as I much prefer the Xbox layout)...
@Kaloudz As soon as the floodgates open though, it doesn't matter if it's 5, 10 or 50 games - the precedent is there.
Gamers will know Sony is never going to let their exclusives go the other way (not that the porting to Xbox would be worth the cost to them, given what so many third parties seem to say), so they'll just go PlayStation and hope the game they like from Xbox is "one of the exceptions".
And if not, they can just use the cloud or PC to play it, knowing they're safely on the console with the widest possible choice...
The fact Microsoft haven't denied the rumours in the last few weeks around many of the games, and how close to MS many of the commentators saying this are (Jez Corden and Tom Warren in particular have had very close ties) leads me to fear it's mostly true.
It's not that this is going to immediately kill Xbox or even future console generations - it's that it gives gamers even less reason to buy an Xbox over a PlayStation, reducing the attractiveness of the platform to third parties to release on (thus giving even less reason to buy an Xbox, so it becomes a vicious circle).
Why would you buy the next Xbox over a PS6 when you know Sony will have all their exclusives, plus their higher third-party support (much of it just from their market share) and a significant number of the Xbox exclusives?
When the Xbox doesn't have any Sony exclusives back, and you're locked out of so much?
I'm more concerned that the message it sends, even if it's a "on a case-by-case basis", is that you'll get more choice if you go PlayStation - meaning Xbox hardware sales will struggle even more and so third parties will ignore us even more than they currently do.
Even "case by case" / older games means if someone's choosing between Xbox and PS and thinking "I love Forza Horizon and God of War" they can pick the PS thinking "Forza might come over at some point", knowing the alternative will never happen.
I gave Xbox a bit of a pass for not being aggressive enough fighting for console sales during the ABK takeover, primarily because the thinking was "once it's over, they'll come out fighting" - but it looks like now, just as things were starting to look up they've thrown in the towel to some extent.
Game Pass helps, but in reality Xbox hasn't really been releasing enough first party games (even this year we're only scheduled for 3 officially, and Indiana Jones might not make it) to sustain it alone - and a lot of the third-party games also feature at some point on PS Plus.
In addition, you can just use Game Pass on the cloud or on PC if you got a PS instead of Xbox (the same argument we all used about exclusives during the ABK case) so you don't miss out - while not missing out on all the PlayStation exclusives / third-party games that don't bother porting to Xbox...
According to PushSquare the rumour mill is Starfield is going across now too, and more games will follow - there's a big battle going on inside Xbox over exclusivity vs profit, and it appears the money men are winning to some extent.
We'll see how it goes, but I'm likely going to get a PS5 Pro if one releases (so I can play the games I've missed the best way possible) and probably upgrade my PC and keep it up-to-date for gaming.
I may even give a Switch 2 a go, although Nintendo's games like most of Sony first party (I'd only be buying PS5 for GoT2, Final Fantasy and Spider Man 2) aren't really my thing.
But if most of the big Xbox exclusives go to PlayStation too, my Series X will probably be my last Xbox - I do love the user friendly features but if I can have all the Game Pass / exclusive games on my PC (and for a long time on my Series X till they stop making games for it) and Sony exclusives on PlayStation plus many Xbox games, it would probably be a waste of money.
And while I see the logic of more games going across money wise, and it'd be nice for the console wars to finally die, in reality Sony's utter dominance in recent years hasn't made them a consumer friendly company and I fear they'll get worse with even less competition - but I can't deny, they give their console owners experiences (or at least the best versions, with so much exclusive junk) that they can't get elsewhere.
Xbox instead I feel sonetimes treats us like we bought a PC, not a walled garden console where we can't play the games of others so need them to fight for us to get us as good a selection as PlayStation owners get - instead we often get less game for the same money (Hogwarts Legacy etc) or many less games to choose from
To be honest, for most retailers there's no point - our local supermarkets for example seem to have ancient games and a few new bestsellers (usually just the latest FIFA and COD).
The Xbox section is tiny in each of them, and clearly they're not selling many games at all, let alone Xbox ones - Amazon is usually much cheaper, and if you really want it in person they're often the same price as GAME or other gaming stores where you can potentially trade-in or look at a wider variety.
It's sad, but I last bought a physical game 3 years ago and they now just annoy me as I have to change the discs (it helps I've got the expansion drive and filled it with my favourite games I sometimes give another run out)
Didn't realise Judas wasn't exclusive (shows how powerful the console-specific marketing can be given I read up more than a casual gamer), that's cool will probably take a look
@DennisReynolds PalWorld isn't, the creator has confirmed he's looking into a PlayStation version - it's that it's an Early Access release which PlayStation doesn't seem to allow.
Persona Xbox paid for ports so they got priority - in the same way P5R got a re-release for PS5 I imagine they'll arrive at some point.
The 360 was years ago - Sony are now completely dominant yet still have "you can release on anything but Xbox" clauses in contracts with publishers (as we found out during the ABK trials) but Xbox haven't had an exclusive DLC in the last two generations.
As for all the new studios, many will probably not be making exclusive content - MS appear to be adjusting their approach, so we'll see
I'd quite like some of the Dual Sense features just to see what they're like, and I'd definitely buy it - I prefer the joystick layout on Xbox so haven't bought a DS for my PC
@Mephisto2869 Exclusive stuff in general, as it's cheaper for Sony to do it given they only have to compensate for a small potential loss of sales from unhappy Xbox players than the other way around.
Obviously I'm exaggerating slightly at monopoly, but no one can deny Sony's install base is huge by comparison.
It's often not fun being on the Xbox side as we often miss out on games not being ported either due to Sony paying for exclusivity or our install base being too small, and when we do get them on some of the biggest games we get less content for the same price...
@DennisReynolds That was ages ago, and at least Xbox had a reason for such deals - after the PS2 dominance they were the underdog going into the next generation.
Sony are already incredibly dominant - they don't need to do stuff like this, in many ways I've no idea how they get away with it given their combined PS4 and PS5 market share over Xbox as surely it would come close to abusing a monopoly position...
@Timorteus That definitely makes me hate Sony more for pulling this crap.
I've long since finished the game, finished all side missions and got all the collectibles etc that I wanted - I did love it so I'll probably jump back in to do this mission but now I'll likely be overpowered for it yet also rusty.
Really wish I'd been strong enough to wait and not reward the publisher for this behaviour, but everyone I knew was playing it so I couldn't resist dammit
@InheritNegative No there's definitely a place for open-source engines, and even Unity (when they're not being dumb) - and for in-house engines when they're built by specialists.
Ubisoft's one is a good example - AC Valhalla, WD Legion and Far Cry 6 all looked good on both last gen and this gen, and have insane draw distances and pretty foliage etc.
The Forza Tech engine is another good example, with FH5 looking amazing, so is id's engine, and so are the Decima / in-house Sony engines.
It's when a developer attempts to use an engine that isn't suited to the game type (Frostbite for Anthem for example) or an engine that's now out of date: SlipSpace for Halo Infinite for example is pretty and allows for great Forge tools, but is apparently a nightmare to develop in now, and the Creation engine is prettier in Starfield but causes all those annoying loading screens as it can't really handle modern open worlds well.
It's more a "right tool for the right job" situation - in this instance they were trying to use an engine for mobile games and develop it further, which then becomes a nightmare as you can end up with one team changing the engine while another team is building the game on it and has to constantly adapt to the changes.
It's quite a different situation if the developer is a specialist in the engine like Playground Games, who understand it so well they can coordinate the changes properly
It sounds like another game where an in-house engine has caused issues - Anthem, Halo Infinite and even Starfield are other examples.
The report says even adding hundreds more developers in the hope of a 2026 release seemed unrealistic - so we'd likely have been talking of doubling or tripling the development team for a potential 2027 or 2028 release date.
4 or 5 years of exorbitant costs on an unknown new IP (which has already had 6 years of expenditure) that sits in an over-saturated sector of the market (survival games) does seem a huge risk - so I can see why it was cancelled, no matter how promising it seemed.
The developers may look back in a few years and think differently - nearly all teams think what they're on currently is great (unless an external supplier is involved / you're forced to compromise too much, in which case you blame them!) but in hindsight years later you can re-visit and think "what on earth was I thinking, why did we do that that way?!".
The biggest surprise to me though is letting the team go - surely re-deploying them within Microsoft Gaming would have been a better answer...
Really hope everyone lands on their feet and is able to find work fast
The actor has also said he hated the romantic bits in the first series and fought hard against them - and appears to have won out for series 2.
So the second season definitely sounds better, the clips look good - and as for the whole helmet thing it's a bit nuts anyway, a character who keeps his armour and helmet on 24/7 is not realistic...
(That said, I do hope he keeps it on more in battles, as clearly taking it off risks the Chief becoming a sniper's dream headshot!)
@__jamiie Yep as someone who hates to miss out on anything, BG3 really wasn't fun for it - I get a stupidly low roll on something and I've now no idea where someone went (which seems dumb to me) or I can miss whole plotlines / approaches / companions.
As a completionist who doesn't have a huge amount of time to game, it's probably going to break me if I do go back to it!
I have the opposite solution to you though - I actually prefer open worlds as I can bypass difficult things and come back later when I'm a higher level, or I can go back if I've missed something. I instead don't like games that won't let me go back to old areas or retry something...
The Outer Worlds is a good middle ground I guess - it's not really open-world (due to the spaceship travel between each level) but it feels big enough to allow different ways through (and small enough I can avoid missing anything) and allows me to go back to areas I've previously visited.
I think as long as Microsoft are flexible to a degree, for example allowing split-screen co-op to be missing from the Series S version because of the high overheads involved, then there's no reason for developers to miss the console.
BG3 is a bit different as they targeted PC first with no thought of console, but even then they would have had to target different PC builds.
Developers have to factor in high and mid level PCs, it's no different really - not everyone has a PC with an RTX 4090, 128GB RAM and a monster CPU.
I think Larian are an outlier in other ways too - a big publisher may have moved more developers over to optimising the Xbox version so the two could release at the same time (and discreetly reached out to Microsoft where needed), in order to avoid clashing with MS, but Larian seem to like being outspoken / honest and almost forcing climbdowns / assistance instead
@TheCrafter1578 Same for me in that I often buy games I've loved on Game Pass, so I have them in case they leave (and to support the devs).
Opposite experience of the game though - I've bounced off it a bit and didn't really like it, having bought it at full price I'll probably force myself back to it at some point but apparently I've already missed one companion because I didn't use a guide and the die-rolling for every tiny thing is kinda doing my head in...
If he doesn't want to be on subscription services, the very least he could do is provide a demo.
I bought BG3 to give it a go, and while I'll probably go back to it at some point it's not exactly screaming "game of the year" to me so far - I admit I'm not a huge fan of turn-based combat but I got through Like a Dragon fine and didn't mind the combat too much here.
I'm definitely not too happy I paid full price for it (particularly since it's had discounts in the sales), more fool me I guess - but I won't be buying a Larian game again without trying it out, so either demos or sub services...
With everything going on, it's a big plus we get this game at all - I can't imagine it's been easy for them.
I played the original Stalker only briefly, but loved the setting - will definitely make sure to give this one a proper play, it looks stunning so I'll probably be shot lots while admiring everything
@Kaloudz It's more that it's just a reminder we have a smaller install base, and so are a less attractive target for publishers.
While in this case, the slightly-higher number of digital-only Xbox users compared to other consoles has definitely not helped, those numbers themselves aren't going to be a significant enough difference - it's primarily an install-base number game.
0.01% of owners buy the game = break even on Nintendo and PlayStation, not on Xbox.
I've no issue with Limited Run as it's an honest answer, which is better than many publishers who skip Xbox give - but it is just a reminder that it sucks being on the third most popular console, as we often get deprioritised, skipped by publishers or have performance issues despite the XSX being more powerful than the PS5 because optimisation work is carried out more for the bigger platform...
I'm actually more hopeful about Xbox than I have been for a while, as they seem to be understanding the need for regular games and showcases / directs - which PlayStation have lacked a little in the last year - and are hopefully learning a little to stop shooting themselves in the foot...
(And I guess a little because I'm planning a PC upgrade and if Sony announce a PS5 Pro and some must-have games I may end up grabbing that and being multi-platform again - so I'm a little less invested now I'm through Christmas and can afford to think about more choice again)
@GeeEssEff You may be right it's not so much cult-like but a simple following on of the PS4's success - but I think myself and @OldGamer999 were also more referring to the PS5 somehow becoming a bit of status symbol (at least in the UK and US) associated with wealthier gamers - in a similar way to the iPhone etc. - which is odd given that true expensive gaming is the really high end PC market.
And you're right, last generation was the worst one to lose as it's where everyone built up game libraries - it's very much a "what could have been" given everyone I know played on the 360 and if the One had been better they'd likely have carried over to it.
Instead, many moved to the PS4 when there still wasn't much tying you to a platform - and now people are too locked in, so either have both (I did last generation, not really seen the point in a PS5 yet) or stick to what they know which by last gen's sales is the PS4...
This but on a larger level does highlight why when people say "who cares how many consoles Xbox sells? You've already got one" that I get annoyed.
I've invested in an Xbox console, but in order for games to be ported to it the userbase needs to be large enough to justify the cost.
In this case, these two games won't sell enough given the smaller user base so they're not being ported - and many developers may have a similar thought about porting games to Xbox.
Yes the digital split being 0 in this case is a particular issue, but the high level of digital-first users on Xbox probably isn't as we can't be much higher than other consoles - the latest UK retail figures from VGC show digital makes up like 66% of game sales without taking into account Nintendo digital sales which are likely significant.
So it's mostly the smaller user base - and if MS can't turn that around this gen, then like last generation we'll continue to miss out on games except for those Xbox pays to be brought over.
I am slightly hopeful in that they seem to be making the right moves, and Sony appear to be struggling for first party games, but overall the cult-like devotion around the PlayStation still worries me...
Comments 1,046
Re: Phil Spencer Addresses Xbox Speculation Ahead Of 'Business Update Event'
@AverageGamer I wish I had your optimism but not a chance - clearly this sudden change of direction has been forced by the money men (the CFO for example) so there's no way they'll agree even more expenditure (and the likely regulatory clashes and legal costs) to pick up more publishers when many are scaling back themselves.
Given no ABK games have reached Game Pass yet I doubt any new acquisition would have much benefit to us gamers anytime soon anyway - and definitely not enough to stem the feeling of slow decline this decision has brought on
Re: Rumour: These Games Are Coming To Xbox Game Pass (February 2024)
Lol everything else is leaking so why not the GP games
I'm hoping the selection is a little bigger than that, particularly to distract us at the moment!
I'm not really a fan of horror games or NFL, so A Little to the Left is the only one I'm likely to give a go
Re: Phil Spencer Addresses Xbox Speculation Ahead Of 'Business Update Event'
@Titntin Nice, yeah I've seen them I'm just hoping they've got the DualSense features as I'm intrigued by the triggers etc.
It's why I was getting quite excited by the new Xbox controller that's (I hope still) coming - and yes comfort with the controller is why I'll still get a good amount of use of my XSX.
Worst case, I'll just get used to the PS5 controller - it is bigger than the PS4 one which should help.
I'll likely get the PS5 Pro as a starting point back into their ecosystem after the PS4, as I've not got one of the "refreshed" consoles before in any generation so thinking if I've waited this long I might as well wait for the "best" version of the PS5.
I'll still be enjoying Game Pass (unless they change something around GP in which case we'll see) on my XSX and my backlog, then we'll see with the run up to next generation if I do bother with the next Xbox - I suspect I'll get both as I'm slightly too into Forza Horizon to wait a year for it to reach PlayStation...
It'll just suck a little on that next-gen Xbox - it already feels bad at times being on the last-place console when third-parties skip us, and if this does proceed as feared then that's just going to get worse as more gamers choose PlayStation so they can get both sets of games (in time)
Re: Phil Spencer Addresses Xbox Speculation Ahead Of 'Business Update Event'
I've generally been a big fan of Phil, and I do think he's a gamer at heart and that's good for Xbox - and he did improve things considerably after the awful Xbox One launch.
However, both in communication around this, and in general management I do have to wonder if he's actually done that great a job - yes there's been great innovations like Game Pass, and there's been acquisitions, but the key thing - games - just hasn't reached the level needed.
We needed Halo Infinite, Starfield, Forza Motorsport and so many others to be Sony-quality AAA experiences - I enjoyed them, but they're not that, the only big one that's come close really has been Forza Horizon 5.
Given how many studios Xbox now has, how many developers and how much resource it had, it's insane that they've not been able to get at least as many games out as Sony have in the last 5 or 6 years, and very few reaching the heights of true AAA.
It feels like an epic management fail, that we're now going to pay for by our exclusives going to PlayStation with nothing in return
Re: Phil Spencer Addresses Xbox Speculation Ahead Of 'Business Update Event'
@BrilliantBill I more meant it's PR 101 - you kill the story dead before it gets out of hand.
Yes it already got out of hand in the gaming media, but now it's going to start hitting mainstream news so casual gamers and parents will see it - so it's going to impact brand value and likely console sales (as you can bet if the update is a boring "case-by-case basis" corporate-speak "Xbox gamers you're still our priority" it won't be as widely reported so the public will just remember the headlines "Xbox is dead?" etc.)
Re: Phil Spencer Addresses Xbox Speculation Ahead Of 'Business Update Event'
@StonyKL I actually have no issue with your scenario, if MS could also help Sony sort out their services (for example free cloud saves).
My biggest gripe moving over would be the controller, so a DualSense with the Xbox layout would be ideal for me!
I'll always have a soft spot for Xbox given my uni days of Halo 3 online with large groups of housemates and friends, and be a little sore how Sony leveraged their market dominance to help finish Xbox off after the One debacle, but at this point I'm fed up of console wars and not getting all the games PlayStation gets so would love such a utopian future
(Game Pass and my Xbox purchases coming over would be great too in that utopia, but I imagine my XSX will live a long enough live for me to enjoy my purchases when I wanted to anyway)
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@Kaloudz I think record high console users is just because the old generation has stayed playable much longer - so you've got One, Series and even 360 users still playing.
PlayStation have a similar phenomenon, where the huge PS4 install base is joining the large PS5 install base to give them a vast potential player base at the moment
If it was that rosy, we wouldn't suddenly be having a "business update" when none of us thought much was wrong.
I agree I think (and hope) Game Pass changes are unlikely, but if all recent / new games go over after 6/12/24 months (including tentpole titles like Gears remastered collection or a new Halo game) then it'll seriously undermine console sales.
"Case by case" screws us too as people will roll the dice on many Xbox games they like coming over as they pick up a PlayStation - only "small and live service" games would work but that's unlikely as they'd have said it by now.
Why get an Xbox when you can get a PlayStation with their exclusives plus much better third party support?
Yes some Xbox consoles will still be sold, and they'll probably still have hardware for a while yet - but as the install base dwindles as the PS5 increases its dominance over the Series consoles, and the next generation it gets even worse, only bigger third party games may take the risk of porting over - leaving Xbox as a true "first party" machine only us enthusiasts will want...
It does just feel like throwing the towel in without waiting to see if taking over the CoD marketing would have finally started to turn the tide...
On the plus side it's convinced me that I'll buy a PS5 Pro if it releases later this year - I'll keep Game Pass for indies that I love and to try games, but a more powerful PS5 Pro will likely handle the games better (even Xbox ones), and I might as well catch up on PlayStation and third party games I've missed sticking with Xbox.
I do seriously hope if they go this route they at least get their act together - Forza Motorsport released with minimal content, Redfall was a mess and even Forza Horizon 5 launched with major server issues.
We cannot be the beta testers for PlayStation who get complete, bug-free versions after we've put up with all the issues...
Re: Phil Spencer Addresses Xbox Speculation Ahead Of 'Business Update Event'
@Stamnoso The problem if Xbox games go to PlayStation 6/12/24 months later or they say "case by case", it'll impact console sales (the latter as many may take a punt on a game they like eventually reaching PlayStation).
Yes casuals who don't know what's going on / don't care and us fans will still buy a new console potentially, but anyone who's into gaming but can only afford one console / anyone who normally gets both but doesn't mind waiting won't.
The danger with that is Xbox falls even further behind the PS5 (then PS6), with the install base becoming small enough that only the biggest third party games will be ported to it - so less games, making it less attractive so less console sales and so less third party games.
It won't kill Xbox consoles today, and potentially never as they may become mini-PCs (hopefully!) or just first-party only machines, but it really screws us owners in terms of our libraries being locked here, it reduces our choice as it'll impact the console sales so even less third party games arrive and we get to beta test games for PlayStation users - as many Xbox games have released either lacking in content or with issues that need fixing...
The only way they avoid this is by confirming it's just small games like HiFi Rush or live service games like Sea of Thieves - but if that was the case we wouldn't need a "business update"...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@Kaloudz Hmm Windows Central always seem extremely close to Xbox, and they've posted the below:
https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/xbox/microsoft-gaming-ceo-phil-spencer-xbox-is-planning-a-business-update-event-for-next-week
The analysis in it (where they voice their opinion), suggests basically a default of every new / recent game across the business including Xbox Game Studios going to PlayStation after a year or two, with few exceptions - or it'll be a wide selection from across Xbox.
Either way, it fits closely with the sheer variety of games we've heard discussed by trusted news sites, while potentially avoiding the worst case scenario of Day 1 ports or bad changes to Game Pass (although can't rule that out I guess ).
It's still pretty terrible for console sales, given only casual gamers could buy only an Xbox next generation and not miss out as the smaller install base = only the biggest third party games being ported, but they'll likely still make a cloud-boosted mid-power console us fan boys can have alongside a PC or PS6.
It's not the future any of us wanted, with ABK ideally having closed a year or so earlier and allowed Xbox to kick into high gear instead of that radio silence, and maybe start to emulate the 360 generation - instead it seems MS are pressuring Xbox to act more like the parent company and gracefully release everything everywhere, annoyingly giving "victory" to the most anti-consumer, nickel and diming Sony I've seen in a decade or two...
Re: Phil Spencer Addresses Xbox Speculation Ahead Of 'Business Update Event'
@theduckofdeath Yeah that's why they need to kill this story much faster - every YouTuber, streamer, gaming site and maybe news site is going to cover this endlessly all week with more and more outlandish theories, damaging discussions and "business analysis".
The Xbox brand will take a hammering, and if his update (as is most likely) ends up being a boring update about just a few games at the moment, it won't get as much coverage so all the majority of people will remember is the "is Xbox dead?" discourse.
And that's even more lethal for future console sales than the current playing field where PS5 has dominance in exclusives, brand awareness and cultural cachet...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@Kaloudz Given the thousands upon thousands of reactions across gaming media, social media and comments / forums, this statement won't stop the circus.
Indeed, with comment from Xbox now I suspect even BBC News and other major sites will pick up the rumours and the "business update coming next week" which will probably lead to those mini-comment boxes in them "Is this the end of Xbox?" etc and bad headlines that casuals will read.
I'm really hoping they do some calming noises before then, via back channels, bringing events forward or saying something - but I get the feeling there's still a major battle happening internally over the breadth of this which is why they're delaying.
But jeez it feels like too high stakes to wait...
Re: Phil Spencer Addresses Xbox Speculation Ahead Of 'Business Update Event'
Stupidly bad PR - let this get even wilder and out of hand for another week...
We've already had respected outlets suggesting HiFi Rush, Starfield, Indiana Jones, Sea of Thieves and potentially Hellblade 2.
Meanwhile the rumour mill is already going nuts that the next Halo will go multi-platform, as will Gears of War (I'm guessing the rumoured collection), and potentially all future Xbox releases - and even crazy things like Game Pass losing Day 1 (and their worries over GP explaining why ABK games and particularly CoD haven't reached it yet, plus the suggestion they might try ads or an ad-supported tier).
That's in one day - they give this over a week and we'll end up with truly crazy rumours...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@Kaloudz If it was good news he'd say so - even if it's not as bad as the many rumours going around you think they'd quash some of them via off-the-record chats with Jez Corden and Tom Warren and others.
Instead all we have is confirmation it's at least as bad as feared (SoT, HiFi Rush, Indiana Jones and Starfield porting over) and potentially as bad as the worst rumours with them not being stopped (Gears / Gears collection going over, Halo next game, all recent / new games going over, even Game Pass stopping Day 1 and it's why we've not seen CoD or ABK games on it yet).
It just screams bad PR - stories like this need putting to bed instantly so they don't get out of hand, letting them run on and get out of control for over a week till a "business update" that we didn't realise we needed...
Re: Reaction: We're Conflicted About Xbox Exclusives Potentially Going To PS5
Phil has apparently tweeted they'll lay out the future vision for Xbox next week - PushSquare has the story and the link to the tweet.
Weirdly, the tweet is still accessible but not in Phil's list - but it is the right profile, not a fake one...
I assume they're withdrawing it realising it's insane to wait a week with this crazy rumour mill - particularly given "the future of Xbox" is mentioned so sounds ominous...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@Kaloudz Yes he edited it yet again...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@Kaloudz I might be misreading Jez's post, but it seems upper MS management have decided hardware is becoming pointless in the new world of handheld PCs, streaming etc and may port pretty much all XSX games:
https://twitter.com/JezCorden/status/1754560778701513122
I really hope he doesn't mean exactly that - but the brave new world part suggests it, and the fact there's no immediate denials from Xbox (which would be easy if only a few were going over) does suggest to me they're putting together a full response to get ahead of this...
Re: Reaction: We're Conflicted About Xbox Exclusives Potentially Going To PS5
@Kaloudz It's not a small number if the rumours are true - out of 7 first-party console exclusives in 2023 and 2024, 4 would be going to PlayStation too.
Hellblade 2, Indiana Jones, HiFi Rush and Starfield, with only Avowed, Redfall and Forza Motorsport staying exclusive (and those last 2 didn't really review / sell well, even if I do like the racing in FM).
That's well over half of Xbox's output for 2 years.
Even the other exclusive for 2024, Stalker 2, is said to have just a 3 month exclusivity window.
It's not a great look when a company has given us so few exclusives for years (barely anything in 2022 for example) is now giving away most of the ones it's offering us...
Re: Reaction: We're Conflicted About Xbox Exclusives Potentially Going To PS5
@datamonkey Yep it's already been picked up by Metro GameCentral and a bunch of other tabloids in the UK, which means it's moved beyond the gamersphere.
Once Xbox finally comment, then if there's any truth at all (and there has to be some, given the HiFi Rush datamine for example) I suspect even BBC News will pick up the story.
You'd have thought they'd have had a press release ready in case it leaked that someone could pull the trigger on soon, rather than waiting for 5/6PM in the UK and Europe for MS to finally start work in Seattle and react to this...
Re: Reaction: We're Conflicted About Xbox Exclusives Potentially Going To PS5
Am slightly concerned that out of the first-party exclusives for 2023 and 2024, the rumours are potentially 4 out of 7 going across:
Leaving us with just Redfall, Forza Motorsport and Avowed as true exclusives (assuming they don't go over).
Before that, in this generation we've only had 5 other first-party exclusives as far as I can recall - Pentiment, FH5, Halo Infinite, Flight Sim and Grounded...
After years of "next year will be better" with Xbox, this year is already looking barren exclusives-wise until the second half and it sounds like every one in the future we'll be thinking "oh when / if will PlayStation get it?" - which does suck as an Xbox owner when you know you won't be getting any PlayStation exclusives in return
Re: Reaction: We're Conflicted About Xbox Exclusives Potentially Going To PS5
@Lightning720 They won't stay silent for long - it's all over the gaming media (whether you use sites like this, or the younger crowds with YouTube etc.) and eventually will reach the tabloid press and even mainstream news sites.
It's too much of a risk having "Xbox exclusives to be released on PlayStation" or "Is Xbox dying?!" headlines all over the place as even casuals see them and it affects their purchasing decisions.
As for them knowing what they're doing, I've no doubt the money men have crunched the numbers, realised they'll make way more money releasing a lot more games on PlayStation, and (probably correctly) surmising most Xbox players will stomach it for now.
The next generation is too far away for them to worry about that decision point for now, better to get returns for the shareholders - the concern is, by the time we get to the next gen and console sales are miniscule as most gamers choose the PS6 as it has both, many of the current management and even shareholders will be long gone and it'll be someone else's issue.
Or they're counting on by then xCloud being good enough they can pivot to "we're on every screen everywhere" which sucks for those of us who like their consoles
Re: Reaction: We're Conflicted About Xbox Exclusives Potentially Going To PS5
This mostly reflects my feelings - while for the developers and other gamers I'm glad PS players will get to try games like HiFi Rush, and get the next instalment of Hellblade, I mostly fear for Xbox.
I much prefer the Xbox controller layout, and while I've got a lot of digital purchases on my PS4 I've mostly stuck with Xbox over the years as it's where I've had my best memories and I've generally preferred their UI, openness and exclusives.
If this was happening because PlayStation exclusives were coming our way, or some big ruling had enforced "all games must be on all platforms" or something silly like that, I'd probably be much happier - instead this does feel a bit like MS are giving in and going where the money is.
Yes casuals will still buy Xbox, yes those who always have all 3 will buy Xbox, and those looking for a bargain Game Pass machine. And those we already own for the most part aren't going anywhere.
But in the next generation, when the tech-savvy early adopters pick their poison, the list of reasons to go PS over Xbox has got a little larger (better exclusives, more third-party support, "cooler" - now got Xbox games too) and I fear that will lead to much fewer sales out of the gate.
At that point, if say 75% of new consoles next generation as PlayStation and 25% are Xbox then the narrative continues to be "Xbox is dying" and we get less third-party games and the casuals buying consoles after the early-adopters mostly go PS too, so that the skew towards PS gets even heavier (like PS5 to XS was likely 60/40 in the early days, now 2 to 1 and increasing as PS5 stock issues have been sorted)
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 Dev Gives His 'Optimistic' Thoughts On Xbox-To-PS5 Rumours
@Kaloudz That's the issue - Xbox often lets bad news leak then after it gets to a head finally speaks up.
They're generally pretty good for positive communications - apart from being really bad at just fronting up and saying "yes we don't have any games for the first half of this year, despite our one-a-quarter pledge" which is annoying given we had a Developer Direct of 4 games for this whole year, when PS had a State of Play with more than that for this quarter (admittedly third party exclusives).
But they need to shut this down fast - it's already all over gaming news, commentators, streamers etc. and will likely reach mainstream news soon (or will once MS confirm something).
If they don't come out with a specific ruleset of what goes where and when, and some positive news for Xbox gamers from it (I don't think there is any) then even casual gamers reading BBC News will see "Xbox to release games on PlayStation" with the "case by case basis" in the text.
That'll reinforce the "is this the death of Xbox?" stuff on YouTube / gaming sites etc. and from having worked in retail years ago it can filter through to casuals who come in with a vague grasp of what's happening and why they "definitely don't want an Xbox as I heard they're closing, show me the PlayStation or Nintendo areas".
It's not great mood music when we were expecting a strong showing after the ABK close, and we're already suffering a lack of first-party / strong third-party exclusive games for 2022 and the first 6 months of many years it seems (including this one), and when we do finally get them they're often not as polished / great as they should be, bar FH5...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@themightyant I'm not saying it'll kill Xbox any time soon - I suspect they'll continue to push for the casual market with cheaper consoles than Sony, and I still know people with 360s who've only just got a One, so the current install base will be around for a while yet.
It just makes the "which console should I buy?" question even more tilted in PS's favour, which it was already by their better exclusives, more third-party support and the cultural cache they've acquired.
It'll likely not make much difference to the final figures between PS5 and XSS|X, as PS5 does appear to be dominating and this would only maybe impact say at most 10% of sales which is what the money men are count on.
But next generation (and this is where my main concern is, @Kaloudz), when it's time for the passionate early adopters (who are more likely to be engaged around exclusives etc.) to choose their console it'll make even more go PS first for the reasons already discussed.
Many of us may still grab one as a Game Pass machine or because we prefer the Xbox ecosystem / UI / controller, but it'll likely cause the next console to lose even harder to the PS6 which will be riding the crest of a wave like the PS5 has thanks to the PS4.
And at that point, I do worry if MS stays in hardware long term or has enough of a following left that they can bring everyone to xCloud when streaming becomes the default - or whether yes, they become a publisher and Sony gets to rule the roost and be as anti-consumer as they like
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 Dev Gives His 'Optimistic' Thoughts On Xbox-To-PS5 Rumours
For those who get every console every generation (I've usually been one, and it looks like I will be again this generation as I'm likely to finally be tempted if Sony release a PS5 Pro) then it doesn't make much difference.
They can still use the Xbox for Game Pass and playing the exclusives day one (although it does feel a little like we've been beta testers for Starfield while PlayStation will get a tidy version!).
For casual gamers, it might not matter too much where they play FIFA, CoD or Fortnite - but they'll probably go where their friends are, and unfortunately there's normally one in a group who's more "into" gaming and they'll follow them.
The gamers who can only afford one console and do like the non-"casual" games though are much more likely now to go PlayStation (more than they already were - it already felt like an uphill battle for Xbox) as they'll get all the PS exclusives, some number of Xbox games and a lot more third-party support...
(And if this impacts console sales, it'll reduce the financial incentives for publishers to port games to Xbox, meaning we miss out on even more third-party games and it becomes a vicious cycle where there becomes even less reason that gamers would pick Xbox).
Game Pass helps a bit yes, but casuals don't really care (they don't play enough different games to make it worthwhile) and others will either have an Xbox alongside their PS / will use PC or cloud (in time) or just use PS Plus which hasn't been too bad in the last year either (Essential in particular)
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@Kaloudz There's strong rumours about Hellblade 2 too, which could be justified as a "the previous game was on PlayStation".
But that means of the 4 games from the Developer Direct, 1 is PC only and 2 are potentially going to PlayStation too (Hellblade and Indiana Jones) - that's a pretty weak year for making someone in the market now want to buy an Xbox.
The "case by case" line kills Xbox - as it leads to a hope that X or Y might jump over. They have to come out with very specific rules about what could be ported, but I suspect they won't and it's because the money men appear to be winning...
The rumours from Jez and others is that there's a big battle going on between those thinking you shouldn't screw your loyal customers, and those seeing the earning potential from releasing games on the massive PlayStation install base - with much of this likely leaked (apart from the HiFi Rush t-shirts) by those trying to fight the money men.
The console install base isn't going to disappear overnight - those of us with one will likely keep it, and those that get sold will be picked up cheap by others and get used, and those who just have their Xbox for Fortnite / CoD / FIFA won't really care.
The money men appear to be thinking that this move won't affect console sales in future either, or reduce the install base next generation when we all have to pick again - and that's the fatal mistake that Jez Corden has pointed out, that next gen there's little reason to stick Xbox so the console sales plummet and eventually the money men go "well it's not worth staying in the hardware business" as the revenues from console players reduce.
Or it could just be the money men are betting the income from selling games to PlayStation gamers can make up any losses from Xbox gamers until the cloud comes along...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@XboxistheBestBox I really doubt it - once this approach takes hold, Xbox console sales are going to be limited to casual gamers who just want a console to play Fortnite / FIFA / CoD, and those who want a Game Pass machine / get every console every generation.
Series consoles are already not selling great, having a spike around Starfield but apparently lagging far behind PS5 especially when they had the big discounts when the "fat" one was discontinued - which not even similar discounts on the XSX seems to have help with much.
It's 2 to 1 at the moment, and it's likely not worth the cost to Sony to port their games to Xbox (they've similar hardware but quite different underlying operating systems / code libraries) particularly given the blowback they'd get from their fans.
I suspect PC a year or two later is more than enough for them revenue wise at the moment.
And I say all of this as someone who would love exclusives to be a thing of the past, and be able to play Spider Man 2 on my XSX with an Xbox pad with DualSense features (as I much prefer the Xbox layout)...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@Kaloudz As soon as the floodgates open though, it doesn't matter if it's 5, 10 or 50 games - the precedent is there.
Gamers will know Sony is never going to let their exclusives go the other way (not that the porting to Xbox would be worth the cost to them, given what so many third parties seem to say), so they'll just go PlayStation and hope the game they like from Xbox is "one of the exceptions".
And if not, they can just use the cloud or PC to play it, knowing they're safely on the console with the widest possible choice...
Re: Starfield, Indiana Jones And Many Other 'Xbox Exclusives' Could Be Heading To PS5
@themightyant @Kaloudz
The fact Microsoft haven't denied the rumours in the last few weeks around many of the games, and how close to MS many of the commentators saying this are (Jez Corden and Tom Warren in particular have had very close ties) leads me to fear it's mostly true.
It's not that this is going to immediately kill Xbox or even future console generations - it's that it gives gamers even less reason to buy an Xbox over a PlayStation, reducing the attractiveness of the platform to third parties to release on (thus giving even less reason to buy an Xbox, so it becomes a vicious circle).
Why would you buy the next Xbox over a PS6 when you know Sony will have all their exclusives, plus their higher third-party support (much of it just from their market share) and a significant number of the Xbox exclusives?
When the Xbox doesn't have any Sony exclusives back, and you're locked out of so much?
I'm more concerned that the message it sends, even if it's a "on a case-by-case basis", is that you'll get more choice if you go PlayStation - meaning Xbox hardware sales will struggle even more and so third parties will ignore us even more than they currently do.
Even "case by case" / older games means if someone's choosing between Xbox and PS and thinking "I love Forza Horizon and God of War" they can pick the PS thinking "Forza might come over at some point", knowing the alternative will never happen.
I gave Xbox a bit of a pass for not being aggressive enough fighting for console sales during the ABK takeover, primarily because the thinking was "once it's over, they'll come out fighting" - but it looks like now, just as things were starting to look up they've thrown in the towel to some extent.
Game Pass helps, but in reality Xbox hasn't really been releasing enough first party games (even this year we're only scheduled for 3 officially, and Indiana Jones might not make it) to sustain it alone - and a lot of the third-party games also feature at some point on PS Plus.
In addition, you can just use Game Pass on the cloud or on PC if you got a PS instead of Xbox (the same argument we all used about exclusives during the ABK case) so you don't miss out - while not missing out on all the PlayStation exclusives / third-party games that don't bother porting to Xbox...
Re: Rumours Resurface About Xbox Shadow Drop 'Hi-Fi RUSH' Releasing On More Platforms
According to PushSquare the rumour mill is Starfield is going across now too, and more games will follow - there's a big battle going on inside Xbox over exclusivity vs profit, and it appears the money men are winning to some extent.
We'll see how it goes, but I'm likely going to get a PS5 Pro if one releases (so I can play the games I've missed the best way possible) and probably upgrade my PC and keep it up-to-date for gaming.
I may even give a Switch 2 a go, although Nintendo's games like most of Sony first party (I'd only be buying PS5 for GoT2, Final Fantasy and Spider Man 2) aren't really my thing.
But if most of the big Xbox exclusives go to PlayStation too, my Series X will probably be my last Xbox - I do love the user friendly features but if I can have all the Game Pass / exclusive games on my PC (and for a long time on my Series X till they stop making games for it) and Sony exclusives on PlayStation plus many Xbox games, it would probably be a waste of money.
And while I see the logic of more games going across money wise, and it'd be nice for the console wars to finally die, in reality Sony's utter dominance in recent years hasn't made them a consumer friendly company and I fear they'll get worse with even less competition - but I can't deny, they give their console owners experiences (or at least the best versions, with so much exclusive junk) that they can't get elsewhere.
Xbox instead I feel sonetimes treats us like we bought a PC, not a walled garden console where we can't play the games of others so need them to fight for us to get us as good a selection as PlayStation owners get - instead we often get less game for the same money (Hogwarts Legacy etc) or many less games to choose from
Re: Xbox Games Are Reportedly No Longer Being Stocked At Some European Retailers
To be honest, for most retailers there's no point - our local supermarkets for example seem to have ancient games and a few new bestsellers (usually just the latest FIFA and COD).
The Xbox section is tiny in each of them, and clearly they're not selling many games at all, let alone Xbox ones - Amazon is usually much cheaper, and if you really want it in person they're often the same price as GAME or other gaming stores where you can potentially trade-in or look at a wider variety.
It's sad, but I last bought a physical game 3 years ago and they now just annoy me as I have to change the discs (it helps I've got the expansion drive and filled it with my favourite games I sometimes give another run out)
Re: Roundup: All The Xbox Reveals From January 2024's State Of Play Event
Didn't realise Judas wasn't exclusive (shows how powerful the console-specific marketing can be given I read up more than a casual gamer), that's cool will probably take a look
Re: Microsoft Adds 'Vapor Collection' To Xbox Design Lab & Unveils New Special Edition Controller
Really like the designs, but yeah given the rumours of a new controller arriving soon I'll be waiting for that...
Re: Deus Ex Game Reportedly Cancelled As Another Embracer Studio Hit By Layoffs
Argh I love Deus Ex, have done ever since the first game - stupid Embracer betting the house
Re: Hogwarts Legacy Is Getting New 'Features' And 'Updates' On Xbox This Year
@DennisReynolds PalWorld isn't, the creator has confirmed he's looking into a PlayStation version - it's that it's an Early Access release which PlayStation doesn't seem to allow.
Persona Xbox paid for ports so they got priority - in the same way P5R got a re-release for PS5 I imagine they'll arrive at some point.
The 360 was years ago - Sony are now completely dominant yet still have "you can release on anything but Xbox" clauses in contracts with publishers (as we found out during the ABK trials) but Xbox haven't had an exclusive DLC in the last two generations.
As for all the new studios, many will probably not be making exclusive content - MS appear to be adjusting their approach, so we'll see
Re: Talking Point: Would You Buy A 'Revised' Xbox Series X|S Controller In 2024?
I'd quite like some of the Dual Sense features just to see what they're like, and I'd definitely buy it - I prefer the joystick layout on Xbox so haven't bought a DS for my PC
Re: Hogwarts Legacy Is Getting New 'Features' And 'Updates' On Xbox This Year
@Mephisto2869 Exclusive stuff in general, as it's cheaper for Sony to do it given they only have to compensate for a small potential loss of sales from unhappy Xbox players than the other way around.
Obviously I'm exaggerating slightly at monopoly, but no one can deny Sony's install base is huge by comparison.
It's often not fun being on the Xbox side as we often miss out on games not being ported either due to Sony paying for exclusivity or our install base being too small, and when we do get them on some of the biggest games we get less content for the same price...
Re: Hogwarts Legacy Is Getting New 'Features' And 'Updates' On Xbox This Year
@DennisReynolds That was ages ago, and at least Xbox had a reason for such deals - after the PS2 dominance they were the underdog going into the next generation.
Sony are already incredibly dominant - they don't need to do stuff like this, in many ways I've no idea how they get away with it given their combined PS4 and PS5 market share over Xbox as surely it would come close to abusing a monopoly position...
Re: Hogwarts Legacy Is Getting New 'Features' And 'Updates' On Xbox This Year
@Timorteus That definitely makes me hate Sony more for pulling this crap.
I've long since finished the game, finished all side missions and got all the collectibles etc that I wanted - I did love it so I'll probably jump back in to do this mission but now I'll likely be overpowered for it yet also rusty.
Really wish I'd been strong enough to wait and not reward the publisher for this behaviour, but everyone I knew was playing it so I couldn't resist dammit
Re: Odyssey Was 'Fantastic' Says Blizzard Dev, Despite Reports Of Development Troubles
@InheritNegative No there's definitely a place for open-source engines, and even Unity (when they're not being dumb) - and for in-house engines when they're built by specialists.
Ubisoft's one is a good example - AC Valhalla, WD Legion and Far Cry 6 all looked good on both last gen and this gen, and have insane draw distances and pretty foliage etc.
The Forza Tech engine is another good example, with FH5 looking amazing, so is id's engine, and so are the Decima / in-house Sony engines.
It's when a developer attempts to use an engine that isn't suited to the game type (Frostbite for Anthem for example) or an engine that's now out of date: SlipSpace for Halo Infinite for example is pretty and allows for great Forge tools, but is apparently a nightmare to develop in now, and the Creation engine is prettier in Starfield but causes all those annoying loading screens as it can't really handle modern open worlds well.
It's more a "right tool for the right job" situation - in this instance they were trying to use an engine for mobile games and develop it further, which then becomes a nightmare as you can end up with one team changing the engine while another team is building the game on it and has to constantly adapt to the changes.
It's quite a different situation if the developer is a specialist in the engine like Playground Games, who understand it so well they can coordinate the changes properly
Re: Odyssey Was 'Fantastic' Says Blizzard Dev, Despite Reports Of Development Troubles
It sounds like another game where an in-house engine has caused issues - Anthem, Halo Infinite and even Starfield are other examples.
The report says even adding hundreds more developers in the hope of a 2026 release seemed unrealistic - so we'd likely have been talking of doubling or tripling the development team for a potential 2027 or 2028 release date.
4 or 5 years of exorbitant costs on an unknown new IP (which has already had 6 years of expenditure) that sits in an over-saturated sector of the market (survival games) does seem a huge risk - so I can see why it was cancelled, no matter how promising it seemed.
The developers may look back in a few years and think differently - nearly all teams think what they're on currently is great (unless an external supplier is involved / you're forced to compromise too much, in which case you blame them!) but in hindsight years later you can re-visit and think "what on earth was I thinking, why did we do that that way?!".
The biggest surprise to me though is letting the team go - surely re-deploying them within Microsoft Gaming would have been a better answer...
Really hope everyone lands on their feet and is able to find work fast
Re: Halo TV Star Sends Blunt Message To Fans About No-Helmet Master Chief
The actor has also said he hated the romantic bits in the first series and fought hard against them - and appears to have won out for series 2.
So the second season definitely sounds better, the clips look good - and as for the whole helmet thing it's a bit nuts anyway, a character who keeps his armour and helmet on 24/7 is not realistic...
(That said, I do hope he keeps it on more in battles, as clearly taking it off risks the Chief becoming a sniper's dream headshot!)
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 Dev Reveals Concerns With Xbox Game Pass-Style Subscriptions
@__jamiie Yep as someone who hates to miss out on anything, BG3 really wasn't fun for it - I get a stupidly low roll on something and I've now no idea where someone went (which seems dumb to me) or I can miss whole plotlines / approaches / companions.
As a completionist who doesn't have a huge amount of time to game, it's probably going to break me if I do go back to it!
I have the opposite solution to you though - I actually prefer open worlds as I can bypass difficult things and come back later when I'm a higher level, or I can go back if I've missed something. I instead don't like games that won't let me go back to old areas or retry something...
The Outer Worlds is a good middle ground I guess - it's not really open-world (due to the spaceship travel between each level) but it feels big enough to allow different ways through (and small enough I can avoid missing anything) and allows me to go back to areas I've previously visited.
Re: Indie Dev Says Optimising For Xbox Series S 'Benefits Consumers Immensely'
I think as long as Microsoft are flexible to a degree, for example allowing split-screen co-op to be missing from the Series S version because of the high overheads involved, then there's no reason for developers to miss the console.
BG3 is a bit different as they targeted PC first with no thought of console, but even then they would have had to target different PC builds.
Developers have to factor in high and mid level PCs, it's no different really - not everyone has a PC with an RTX 4090, 128GB RAM and a monster CPU.
I think Larian are an outlier in other ways too - a big publisher may have moved more developers over to optimising the Xbox version so the two could release at the same time (and discreetly reached out to Microsoft where needed), in order to avoid clashing with MS, but Larian seem to like being outspoken / honest and almost forcing climbdowns / assistance instead
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 Dev Reveals Concerns With Xbox Game Pass-Style Subscriptions
@TheCrafter1578 Same for me in that I often buy games I've loved on Game Pass, so I have them in case they leave (and to support the devs).
Opposite experience of the game though - I've bounced off it a bit and didn't really like it, having bought it at full price I'll probably force myself back to it at some point but apparently I've already missed one companion because I didn't use a guide and the die-rolling for every tiny thing is kinda doing my head in...
Re: Baldur's Gate 3 Dev Reveals Concerns With Xbox Game Pass-Style Subscriptions
If he doesn't want to be on subscription services, the very least he could do is provide a demo.
I bought BG3 to give it a go, and while I'll probably go back to it at some point it's not exactly screaming "game of the year" to me so far - I admit I'm not a huge fan of turn-based combat but I got through Like a Dragon fine and didn't mind the combat too much here.
I'm definitely not too happy I paid full price for it (particularly since it's had discounts in the sales), more fool me I guess - but I won't be buying a Larian game again without trying it out, so either demos or sub services...
Re: Stalker 2 Is Officially Launching On Xbox Game Pass This September
With everything going on, it's a big plus we get this game at all - I can't imagine it's been easy for them.
I played the original Stalker only briefly, but loved the setting - will definitely make sure to give this one a proper play, it looks stunning so I'll probably be shot lots while admiring everything
Re: Multiple New Xbox Rumours Are Circulating On Social Media This Week
343i helping with Indiana Jones would be good news for me - I love the gunplay in Halo Infinite, and the general fluid feel of movement.
It's one of my biggest frustrations with Dishonored, that it feels a bit clunky when the stealthy approach fails...
Re: Limited Run Gets Brutally Honest As Xbox Misses Out On Two New Ports
@Kaloudz It's more that it's just a reminder we have a smaller install base, and so are a less attractive target for publishers.
While in this case, the slightly-higher number of digital-only Xbox users compared to other consoles has definitely not helped, those numbers themselves aren't going to be a significant enough difference - it's primarily an install-base number game.
0.01% of owners buy the game = break even on Nintendo and PlayStation, not on Xbox.
I've no issue with Limited Run as it's an honest answer, which is better than many publishers who skip Xbox give - but it is just a reminder that it sucks being on the third most popular console, as we often get deprioritised, skipped by publishers or have performance issues despite the XSX being more powerful than the PS5 because optimisation work is carried out more for the bigger platform...
I'm actually more hopeful about Xbox than I have been for a while, as they seem to be understanding the need for regular games and showcases / directs - which PlayStation have lacked a little in the last year - and are hopefully learning a little to stop shooting themselves in the foot...
(And I guess a little because I'm planning a PC upgrade and if Sony announce a PS5 Pro and some must-have games I may end up grabbing that and being multi-platform again - so I'm a little less invested now I'm through Christmas and can afford to think about more choice again)
Re: Limited Run Gets Brutally Honest As Xbox Misses Out On Two New Ports
@GeeEssEff You may be right it's not so much cult-like but a simple following on of the PS4's success - but I think myself and @OldGamer999 were also more referring to the PS5 somehow becoming a bit of status symbol (at least in the UK and US) associated with wealthier gamers - in a similar way to the iPhone etc. - which is odd given that true expensive gaming is the really high end PC market.
And you're right, last generation was the worst one to lose as it's where everyone built up game libraries - it's very much a "what could have been" given everyone I know played on the 360 and if the One had been better they'd likely have carried over to it.
Instead, many moved to the PS4 when there still wasn't much tying you to a platform - and now people are too locked in, so either have both (I did last generation, not really seen the point in a PS5 yet) or stick to what they know which by last gen's sales is the PS4...
Re: Limited Run Gets Brutally Honest As Xbox Misses Out On Two New Ports
This but on a larger level does highlight why when people say "who cares how many consoles Xbox sells? You've already got one" that I get annoyed.
I've invested in an Xbox console, but in order for games to be ported to it the userbase needs to be large enough to justify the cost.
In this case, these two games won't sell enough given the smaller user base so they're not being ported - and many developers may have a similar thought about porting games to Xbox.
Yes the digital split being 0 in this case is a particular issue, but the high level of digital-first users on Xbox probably isn't as we can't be much higher than other consoles - the latest UK retail figures from VGC show digital makes up like 66% of game sales without taking into account Nintendo digital sales which are likely significant.
So it's mostly the smaller user base - and if MS can't turn that around this gen, then like last generation we'll continue to miss out on games except for those Xbox pays to be brought over.
I am slightly hopeful in that they seem to be making the right moves, and Sony appear to be struggling for first party games, but overall the cult-like devotion around the PlayStation still worries me...