@Banjo- cool, thanks, I'm probably going to end the GPU sub, so I'll buy it when it hits a sale but probably buy on Xbox/Windows store since apparently own the dlc there already.
@Banjo- PlayStation is the new Vaio. A premium luxury mid-range PC lol.
Yeah the inflation reasoning continues to get my goat to no end. But the bad price comparisons are also really annoying. Including bad comparisons with PC parts. Like, of course initial in investment is higher out of the gate, nobody denies that, but the point is the TCO over a decade. The prices get a lot closer or lean opposite over the long curve. It may work out better or worse but 500+800 (stand and disc drive) plus pricier games maybe subs. You're already up to the price difference and we're only 4 years in. "But you can just buy a base model then" yeah and you can just buy a series s.... Or a steam deck.
@HonestHick I don't think gamers are asking for more. I think devs want to keep pushing their skill sets and marketers want something shiny and keep pushing hardware beyond its limit and gamers just want games that run right and every time we get that they they try to add more reflections and break it again. And the console makers love it because it keeps there cycle rolling.
Mk8 cod@1080p high fps, Minecraft that looks like Doom 1, Fortnite that runs on phones, and a PS3 GTA game are the best selling games over and over. Gamers aren't the ones asking for this. It's pushed on us and then we're told to pay up.
@Banjo- lol absolutely! I'm so tired of writing how just adding inflation doesn't work for discretionary spend items when inflation means necessities consume most if peoples discretionary income. What these people really mean is "I'm high income and enjoy feeling exclusive".
Sony seems to be just writing off the casual gamer as a lost cause to phones and potato pc and just trying to milk the enthusiast whales they see as their remaining market while still capturing game sales from the customers jumping to PC. I don't see that as a great future for them while even their exclusive stellar blades producer said he expects better sales on PC..........
@Banjo- Yeah, I mean I think the logic is "Jim planned this from the start" and "we need to boost the YoY." It seems to be the apple playbook of "make an expensive thing to give people who like owning expensive things something to spend money on"
It sounds seriously awful for the money. All that rationalization that is supposed to be expensive and it's "sO MuCh ChEaPeR tHAn A PC" is insane. Even Nvidia had to cut the price of 4080 via Super because nobody was buying them. Technically it is cheaper but if you have to rationalize the price of products via trade in and resale of your old worn trash to uninformed buyers paying almost full price apple style, the pricing is wrong. The Sony loyal are looking more and more like the apple loyal. Its not about the product it's about brand identity. The people going on about gaming is "luxury" lol. Even PC people don't go on about all glass cases and luxury and this is a plastic box. It's everything wrong with Apple. Though Nintendo and Sony are both trying to be Apple.
@Banjo- @TheLastHarbinger I'm pretty sure "PS5 Pro Game Boost" is the same thing as "PS5 Game Boost" but with a bit of an overclock and is very misleading. Meaning games that weren't hitting stable framerates or were uncapped on PS5 when running PS4 games will be able to do so with a bit more brute force. You know, exactly like how upgrading PC hardware works, but with Sony magic.
So it doesn't sound like it's anything like FPS boost that was adding 60fps modes to games that didn't have one.
PS5 Pro is the best thing that's happened to Phil Spencer all year.
Sony just declared their price intentions for PS6, launched this thing late in the gen, giving Xbox a head start on the next gen where they can charge a fortune and still look like a value for the performance being way superior to PS5 Pro, while Sony will have to lag behind on launching PS6 while they keep feeding PS5 Pro, giving Xbox a large head start, or they'll have to rush a PS6 to market to compete and abandon their $700 premium console with a 2 year shelf life.
Sony "Did an Xbox" here. Jim and Herman are Xbox's best friend.
I redeemed this code way back when it became available. Does anyone happen to know - is the redemption permanent? I.E. if you drop GP entirely after redeeming it, do you still keep the DLC as though purchased?
Debating if I should buy P3R on the XB store because it's cross-buy with PC Play Anywhere and I already "own" the DLC on XB store due to the free perk, or if I should just forget it and get it on Steam down the line if the DLC won't go with me without GP.
Some insider information there. "All the games are coming, but nobody's actually making them right now." Didn't we already know all of this sans the claim to have knowledge that 7 is coming, someday in the future if someone ever works on it, vs just assuming?
Square already said they're going cross platform aggressively. We already knew this. This information provides nothing. After the failure of Rebirth they really need to get it on other platforms but I'm willing to be it won't happen until a trilogy bundle is released after the next game releases in 4+ years. Rebirth isn't even dated for PC yet.
@PsBoxSwitchOwner @themightyant The traditional model is to cut the artists into royalties. The more the game makes, the more the artist makes. If the game bombs, the artist's sales bomb too. That was the most fair system.
Offering a pittance on a likely blockbuster title for perpetual rights is pure corporate strong-arming on a level even Microsoft hasn't done (imagine if they payed Mercedes and the music artists each $7500 for Forza for perpetual rights and no delistings.) 2k is just gross. It's how they approach everything. They have no problem their lawyers can't solve.
@UndyingInsurgent95 I think the problem with the gaming industry goes beyond "corporate, we need growth" mantras. The problem is the game industry runs entirely on borrowed money. A lot of borrowed money. With 5-10 year dev times these days, they're a generation late to finding out they overestimated sales and borrowed waaay too much money, and then they depend on the market being much bigger than it was previously to justify the amount borrowed and reassure financiers. So they've been spending more and more. There's only two ways to make the money and promised margins to investors back. Charge a lot more, or get a lot more customers. The latter failed. The former is failing and causes the inverse of the latter. Thus industry implosion.
Minecraft's primary platforms are budget phones, potato PCs, and Switch. That will remain Minecraft's primary platforms forever. The rest can come as mods. Console gets what's left. Weird that Xbox has zero priority, but, it's Xbox lol.
@Jaxx420 Yeah, and I'm still not convinced gta6 will match gta5 in the new climate either. I think a "sequel" will struggle to pull players from 5 as much as any competitors. Like how Minecraft 2 wouldn't dethrone Minecraft, which is why they don't make one and keep extending the original I can't help but wonder if gta6 might play seconds to 5 for a good while.
@Jaxx420 I think Astrobot will be a success but I didn't think it'll represent the numbers they want to see. Honestly nothing would these days other than maybe gta6.
It still seems unlikely. And MS saying this easily could be cute corporate wording to insinuate a connection where there is none. The classic "Do you still beat your wife?"
On the other hand, Sony and Game Science ghosting every media request for comment, combined with MS insinuating they have a deal.....it REALLY makes one wonder.
I get a policy of not commenting on rumors. But Sony has commented on rumors from Forbes multiple times in the past 4 years, and when the media AND your competitor are publicly insinuating you have secret agreements and you continue ignoring media requests for comment....... Either there's truth to it, or Sony's "doing a Microsoft" and creating their own negative PR by ignoring the negative PR.
@FatalBubbles TBH I haven't cared enough to follow close enough to have a list but there's been lots of games delayed on Xbox due to technical issues that we assume are true. Like wukong. But if there's monkey business here that Sony won't deny then maybe there's more to that? It's all weird
@FatalBubbles agreed. Is honestly the silence on the matter giving it the most credibility now. It would be easy to say no. Do why won't they? And if it's true now, how often has it been true before?
@FatalBubbles We don't know. That's kind of the point where this would be interesting on their response. One could assume there's no contract like this. But Sony so far seems to have had no response to any press inquiries. The silence is curious. It would be easy to say no it's untrue even accused by Forbes. And in fact they've done so before when Forbes printed they cut PS5 production and again when Forbes claimed they cut psvr2 production. They were quick to refute the false claims. This one? Silence. Curious indeed. If this one is real, it means others are probably real that we didn't know about. And if they don't answer I'm pretty much taking that as confirmation that against the odds this one really is true.
I mean it's still twice the framerate of Dragon's Dogma 2 and Cyberpunk on console...
It is such a great take on media though. One on hand the headline is "25FPS on Series S!" OTOH, that means they're 5 frames away from the 30fps target and still in optimization development meaning it's nearly on target. How many "30fps" games dip well below that often on PS5/XSX? Or PC for that matter....
@themightyant The deal thing still seems unlikely to me as well, however, the "they didn't market it" thing doesn't hold water, depends what the deal is, exclusivity money to take the marketing rights and make it their own vs hush money to delay the competition and keep it off the market and tarnish its image. The latter's probably a much cheaper deal yet gets the same benefits.
Do I think that happened here? PROBABLY not. But, so far neither company confirming or denying is raising my suspicions higher than they were. Silence can be pretty loud. And even if it's not this game, they may be sweating being caught on something they've done elsewhere. MS did pointedly accuse them of exactly that during the ABK trials after all.
Most likely for this game it's not a deal, and it's also not a "memory leak problem" so much as, as one dev commented during gamescom "nobody needs Xbox" - i.e. it's just last place priority and they DGAF. But the silence makes me curious. This game or other games...such deals may well exist.
@Cikajovazmaj XSS is still the top selling Xbox, so I don't think there's a strong argument to say it wasn't worth it. If they didn't have the S, how small would the install base be? MS made a gamble on the low cost to entry market with the S and cloud. And a play at gunning for Switch with a similar price point but with expected "big console" games and features. It's a fair play, whether it ultimately succeeds or fails, the original strategy was a sound one. And without the S and the "second console for Game Pass" market it created, it's possible Xbox would be in even worse shape than they are.
S isn't their mistake. It's a challenge, but not a mistake. Annihilating their own momentum and brand presence was their mistake. If they had kept momentum and made Xbox/GP a must-have both on S and X, devs wouldn't have found the challenge of putting games on the S to be a "problem", it would be an opportunity. Like Switch ports.
@electrolite77 Xbox started the $200 controller with the Elite, and it's boomed from there. Paid online, $200 for premium controllers.... How did we end up liking Xbox again?
@Jenkinss Yeah, but the stated phrase of Square not being the most tone-deaf, detached organization lacking all self awareness was still hilarious
With XVI IMO that's still a game that NEEDED 60fps, and should have been built around 60fps, and it's inexplicable the game ever targeted 30fps at all on a single console full exclusive that didn't even have a PC port actively maintained. I can not comprehend the logic that went into that decision. I think that was less about placating forum warriors and more about realizing "oops" but not knowing how to fix it. I tried to play that in performance...I really did.....and I just can't. It's both fugly and low fps at the same time vs quality mode that's just low fps but not fugly. Should be labeled (Poor) Performance Mode.
@PsBoxSwitchOwner Square isn't first party but it was a first party paid full exclusive. Even Obsidian doesn't have that standard as they're doing PC and 2 consoles. XVI was a full exclusive for one single piece of hardware, without a PC port even being actively maintained and still couldn't do it. While making a character action game with the DMC combat director lol.
I hate this generation so much I've started hating consoles like it's 2001 all over again lol
@GamingFan4Lyf Yeah, even with DLSS and frame gen on! It's definitely the most brutally demanding benchmark for GPUs. Cyberpunk and VR are the only two places where "4090 isn't enough" is true lol.
@DennisReynolds. YES! Crackdown 4 is the solution!
@GamingFan4Lyf Of course it depends on the game, Hogwarts gets 100+ at 4k on 4090s with ultra and rt. But this game feels more cyberpunk. 4090s can't hold 60fps with ultra and full rt at 4k.
@Vaako007 What Xbox really needed was an internal standards committee within Xbox that has set guidelines for internal games as to what performance targets are for their hardware so that their studios can design around that template. They don't need to micromanage, they just need to set the technical requirements for their hardware platforms for the teams to meet. It should not be hard. And MS own games shouldn't be a hodgepodge of downscaled PC ports and "we'll look at it later" for the #1 sold hardware SKU support.
I LOOOVE Obsidian, but how are they operating where they have an RTX hyped PC build, an console port at 30fps that they are "surprised" runs better than PC, and another console SKU they basically haven't looked at yet just before they were set to release? That's a lack of internal rules for hardware benchmarks.
@OldGamer999 Kinda funny that in 2024 the high water mark for video games is a platformer. And here we thought platformers have been dead for 20 years!
@InterceptorAlpha Nah, I doubt it's using RT on console, but they're sure happy pimping the RT on PC. Which I bet performs like hot garbage even on a 4090 when cranked.
LOL I bought D2:LoD purely for the 800x600 upgrade. Also Blizzard gonna blizzard, even back then few companies would make you buy an expansion pack just to be able to change the resolution, let alone that change being a whopping 800x600 max. Even Rockstar would free patch that, and that's saying something!
Ever play Neverwinter 2? The game was everything Bioware's hideous NwN was not, they fixed the game and made a great D&D game finally. But the thing was a slideshow even on an upper-midrage card at the time (forget what I had), Rediculous performance crashes. Same with KotR2. Obsidian is a wonderful game designer but they're one of the worst technical teams in the biz. It's why the partnership with Bioware was great in the day. Bioware had great tech teams and horrible game designs and writing.
@InterceptorAlpha "I'll be playing it at 100+FPS on PC,"
Not with RT enabled, you won't. If their own statements about performance here are anything to go by I'm betting 60-ish fps with RT on on a 4090, Cyberpunk style, is the best you'll get.
OTOH when you've been playing Obsidian games since they were founded, we should expect it by now. Amazing games. Terrible technology. That's how they've rolled since day 1. No 800x600 for you, get back in the 640x480 box. 1024x768 is for SLI/Crossfire players.
@OldGamer999 Much as I love Astrobot and Asobi nee Japan Studio, pulling off technical greatness on a 3D platformer on a modern console shouldn't be a test of technical prowess...
@Decimateh Hall effect uses a magnet to detect position. Traditional sticks use a carbon film layered potentiometer that rubs together to detect position. Hall effect can't develop drift the same ways traditional sticks can because theres no contact, it's just a magnetic field, however, the centering spring can always go bad or warp. But that's a much less common problem than the normal potentiometer film wear.
@Markatron84 If you're looking for PC and Switch only (not XB/PS without adapters) also check out Flydigi. Kind of a "no name" here, but they're the #1 brand in China, they have pretty nice stuff. Vaders and Apex's have Hall effect.
@andrewsqual I disagree with that reasoning. The game looking and running way better on the powerful hardware is exactly the point of marketing the powerful hardware. It's a great strategy to upsell the S buyers into an X. Cheap, you get this, expensive you get that. People would expect that. And is the same message PS5 Pro will use.
Making Series X look bad so that it sells more series S's instead of X's is a bad strategy.
Oh wait you're probably right then. lol
But, really that implies too much strategy. I don't think they're planning that far ahead and managing console optics that finely. I think their devs just carp out a PC build and dial it till it runs on consoles and that's the end of "optimization." Mostly that means 30fps mid settings. And accounts for the surprise it's running well.
@OldGamer999 To be fair, it's not an issue of Series S being a problematic thing. It's the fact that even this FIRST party dev didn't even consider it until after they built their game around other hardware and decided to "figure it out later".
The fact that they cite it's running better on XSX than PC, while they're already a formerly PC centric studio, it doesn't look visually demanding, and they didn't even consider their own company's top selling hardware model until after building it says everything that's wrong with game devs. It's not the hardware. It's the devs. Or the managers more like. In the 90's devs built a game to the hardware. In the 2020's devs build a game concept they like, then try to wait for hardware that can run it to exist.
This should be 30fps on series S, 60fps on Series X, lolfps/45-60fps RT with full path tracing. Anything else is just lack of trying.
@SodaPop6548 "Does anyone else notice how this sort of drama doesn't happen on other platforms" " first part developers for those platforms get what their customers want."
@themightyant No you didn't misread. I have a 60hz IPS panel, LG, not some weird Chinese unknown. Granted it's technically a monitor instead of TV but that shouldn't matter in this context. I just double checked the LG specs now to make SURE I didn't have something way more expensive than I thought with 120Hz But nope, listed as 60hz.
However 30fps has horribly noticeably uneven frame timing that appears jerky in motion. (I.E. "30fps is almost unplayable!" as I always say.) 40-45 runs perfectly fine. And 60 is ideal.
If I had to GUESS, the only explanation must be the actual panel is a 120Hz panel and something else on the display is limited, or just business reasons for selling the same panel for more money in a 120hz version means they restricted it to 60hz max, even though it's really a native 120Hz panel. Or something? 40 is playable, 30 is a juddering mess.
Given the amount of people with "30fps is unplayable" comments these days, and the dominance of LG displays in general, I would not doubt at all this is not uncommon for them. Many "60hz" panels may really be 120hz panels artificially limited to 60 (cheaper to produce one panel and limit it for cheaper skus?), and thus 30fps really is nearly unplayable on many displays.
I've always thought the panel market has a lot to do with the unending fps arguments.
@Mustoe "Now it's just a production line"
Yeah, ain't that the truth....that's so much of the problem, absolutely.
EDIT: It's an IPS panel, I typed TN originally for some reason.
@Ralizah Very true but before they mastered self sabotage squares missing presence, especially back when square actually mattered a lot more, did a lot to hold back Xbox credibility and adoption.
@OldGamer999 That's ok, Phil's wandering with you. You might bump into each other.
Yeah, Asobi hasn't let anyone down yet, so I'm expecting quality from any remnant of Japan Studio. Shame Sony disbanded every other part of their best (but not most profitable) team...
@OldGamer999 One problem is of course that the hardware simply sucks. They designed it at a point that hardware wasn't really different from the old pro models. It's not a new generation. But the dev issues apply to PC too.
It's also too many cooks spoiling the broth. Look at the credits on these games. They run for an hour. Top budget Hollywood films credits last 10 minutes. How many different teams from different companies on different continents are working on the pieces of these games? How COULD it gel?
Trying to do too many advanced visual things on hardware that doesn't have room to spare with teams that don't work well together and often aren't even working for the same company.
This gen is so bad it pushed me back to PC. It had to be REALLY bad to do that. I swore it off for life. THAT is how bad it is...
@OldGamer999 I'm not sure what's going on with game development this gen. "Something" happened at the development level. Maybe Nvidia is just lead platform for almost everything with console as an afterthought? It's every publisher, every engine, EVERYTHING has the same problems. Maybe they just got rid of all the experienced talent and staffed up on interns for "good enough" for cheap? Throwing too many shaders and lighting and particle tricks at it beyond what hardware can really handle? Just assuming RTX is lead platform? IDK.
A lot of it has to be shaders/materials/lighting, particle effects going on. Why are resolutions AND performance tanking everywhere? It's not RT, most of these games don't even use RT by default. RT is a whole other mess.
Then we have all the CPU bound games, but why are they CPU bound suddenly when they don't seem to do much more than old gen games? Starfield was one of the only ones with an excuse with the amount of object tracking going on, but then that DID get a 60fps patch. But it's the res that takes a hit.
IDK, something changed in the dev of everything in the past few years, even if the end result doesn't justify the losses. The games all seem like they're being made for future theoretical hardware, or just built around 4080s and just tuned down till it runs on anything else.
Comments 6,846
Re: Reminder: Persona 3 Reload Expansion Releases For Free On Xbox Game Pass This Week
@Banjo- yeah it seems like anything newer than classic Yakuza they fully support it.
Square weirdly supports it with most of their smaller games.
Re: Reminder: Persona 3 Reload Expansion Releases For Free On Xbox Game Pass This Week
@Banjo- cool, thanks, I'm probably going to end the GPU sub, so I'll buy it when it hits a sale but probably buy on Xbox/Windows store since apparently own the dlc there already.
Re: Xbox Series X Vs. PS5 Pro: What Are We Missing Out On?
@Banjo- PlayStation is the new Vaio. A premium luxury mid-range PC lol.
Yeah the inflation reasoning continues to get my goat to no end. But the bad price comparisons are also really annoying. Including bad comparisons with PC parts. Like, of course initial in investment is higher out of the gate, nobody denies that, but the point is the TCO over a decade. The prices get a lot closer or lean opposite over the long curve. It may work out better or worse but 500+800 (stand and disc drive) plus pricier games maybe subs. You're already up to the price difference and we're only 4 years in. "But you can just buy a base model then" yeah and you can just buy a series s.... Or a steam deck.
Re: Xbox Series X Vs. PS5 Pro: What Are We Missing Out On?
@HonestHick I don't think gamers are asking for more. I think devs want to keep pushing their skill sets and marketers want something shiny and keep pushing hardware beyond its limit and gamers just want games that run right and every time we get that they they try to add more reflections and break it again. And the console makers love it because it keeps there cycle rolling.
Mk8 cod@1080p high fps, Minecraft that looks like Doom 1, Fortnite that runs on phones, and a PS3 GTA game are the best selling games over and over. Gamers aren't the ones asking for this. It's pushed on us and then we're told to pay up.
Re: Xbox Series X Vs. PS5 Pro: What Are We Missing Out On?
@Banjo- lol absolutely! I'm so tired of writing how just adding inflation doesn't work for discretionary spend items when inflation means necessities consume most if peoples discretionary income. What these people really mean is "I'm high income and enjoy feeling exclusive".
Sony seems to be just writing off the casual gamer as a lost cause to phones and potato pc and just trying to milk the enthusiast whales they see as their remaining market while still capturing game sales from the customers jumping to PC. I don't see that as a great future for them while even their exclusive stellar blades producer said he expects better sales on PC..........
Re: Xbox Series X Vs. PS5 Pro: What Are We Missing Out On?
@Banjo- Yeah, I mean I think the logic is "Jim planned this from the start" and "we need to boost the YoY." It seems to be the apple playbook of "make an expensive thing to give people who like owning expensive things something to spend money on"
It sounds seriously awful for the money. All that rationalization that is supposed to be expensive and it's "sO MuCh ChEaPeR tHAn A PC" is insane. Even Nvidia had to cut the price of 4080 via Super because nobody was buying them. Technically it is cheaper but if you have to rationalize the price of products via trade in and resale of your old worn trash to uninformed buyers paying almost full price apple style, the pricing is wrong. The Sony loyal are looking more and more like the apple loyal. Its not about the product it's about brand identity. The people going on about gaming is "luxury" lol. Even PC people don't go on about all glass cases and luxury and this is a plastic box. It's everything wrong with Apple. Though Nintendo and Sony are both trying to be Apple.
Re: Xbox Series X Vs. PS5 Pro: What Are We Missing Out On?
@Banjo- @TheLastHarbinger I'm pretty sure "PS5 Pro Game Boost" is the same thing as "PS5 Game Boost" but with a bit of an overclock and is very misleading. Meaning games that weren't hitting stable framerates or were uncapped on PS5 when running PS4 games will be able to do so with a bit more brute force. You know, exactly like how upgrading PC hardware works, but with Sony magic.
So it doesn't sound like it's anything like FPS boost that was adding 60fps modes to games that didn't have one.
Re: Reaction: PS5 Pro's Extortionate Price Justifies Xbox's Lack Of A New Console
PS5 Pro is the best thing that's happened to Phil Spencer all year.
Sony just declared their price intentions for PS6, launched this thing late in the gen, giving Xbox a head start on the next gen where they can charge a fortune and still look like a value for the performance being way superior to PS5 Pro, while Sony will have to lag behind on launching PS6 while they keep feeding PS5 Pro, giving Xbox a large head start, or they'll have to rush a PS6 to market to compete and abandon their $700 premium console with a 2 year shelf life.
Sony "Did an Xbox" here. Jim and Herman are Xbox's best friend.
Re: Soapbox: 12 Months Later, I Definitely Still Miss Xbox Games With Gold
My first week back to Xbox with the 1X after the end of 360 I got AC: Syndicate. Such a far cry from the scheduled trash dumps of the last year.
Re: Reminder: Persona 3 Reload Expansion Releases For Free On Xbox Game Pass This Week
I redeemed this code way back when it became available. Does anyone happen to know - is the redemption permanent? I.E. if you drop GP entirely after redeeming it, do you still keep the DLC as though purchased?
Debating if I should buy P3R on the XB store because it's cross-buy with PC Play Anywhere and I already "own" the DLC on XB store due to the free perk, or if I should just forget it and get it on Steam down the line if the DLC won't go with me without GP.
Re: Heaven 17 Musician Insulted By 'Pathetic' Offer From Rockstar Games For GTA 6
@Fiendish-Beaver You were ahead of the curve by being behind.
I'll still never forgive cassette for
...click...
replacing the far superior 8-Track though.
Re: Rumour: 'Whole Slate' Of Modern Final Fantasy Games Expected To Release On Xbox
Some insider information there. "All the games are coming, but nobody's actually making them right now." Didn't we already know all of this sans the claim to have knowledge that 7 is coming, someday in the future if someone ever works on it, vs just assuming?
Square already said they're going cross platform aggressively. We already knew this. This information provides nothing. After the failure of Rebirth they really need to get it on other platforms but I'm willing to be it won't happen until a trilogy bundle is released after the next game releases in 4+ years. Rebirth isn't even dated for PC yet.
Re: Heaven 17 Musician Insulted By 'Pathetic' Offer From Rockstar Games For GTA 6
@Fiendish-Beaver "On vinyl"
What, no 8-Track player? Dweeb.
@PsBoxSwitchOwner @themightyant The traditional model is to cut the artists into royalties. The more the game makes, the more the artist makes. If the game bombs, the artist's sales bomb too. That was the most fair system.
Offering a pittance on a likely blockbuster title for perpetual rights is pure corporate strong-arming on a level even Microsoft hasn't done (imagine if they payed Mercedes and the music artists each $7500 for Forza for perpetual rights and no delistings.) 2k is just gross. It's how they approach everything. They have no problem their lawyers can't solve.
Re: Tango Gameworks Founder Thought Studio 'Would Be Safe' At Xbox Thanks To Hi-Fi RUSH
@UndyingInsurgent95 I think the problem with the gaming industry goes beyond "corporate, we need growth" mantras. The problem is the game industry runs entirely on borrowed money. A lot of borrowed money. With 5-10 year dev times these days, they're a generation late to finding out they overestimated sales and borrowed waaay too much money, and then they depend on the market being much bigger than it was previously to justify the amount borrowed and reassure financiers. So they've been spending more and more. There's only two ways to make the money and promised margins to investors back. Charge a lot more, or get a lot more customers. The latter failed. The former is failing and causes the inverse of the latter. Thus industry implosion.
Re: Talking Point: A Decade Since Its Xbox One Release, Where On Earth Is Current-Gen Minecraft?
Minecraft's primary platforms are budget phones, potato PCs, and Switch. That will remain Minecraft's primary platforms forever. The rest can come as mods. Console gets what's left. Weird that Xbox has zero priority, but, it's Xbox lol.
Re: Reaction: Xbox Focusing On 'Blockbuster Games' Should Be No Surprise After The Failure Of Concord
@Jaxx420 Yeah, and I'm still not convinced gta6 will match gta5 in the new climate either. I think a "sequel" will struggle to pull players from 5 as much as any competitors. Like how Minecraft 2 wouldn't dethrone Minecraft, which is why they don't make one and keep extending the original I can't help but wonder if gta6 might play seconds to 5 for a good while.
Re: Reaction: Xbox Focusing On 'Blockbuster Games' Should Be No Surprise After The Failure Of Concord
@Jaxx420 I think Astrobot will be a success but I didn't think it'll represent the numbers they want to see. Honestly nothing would these days other than maybe gta6.
Re: Reaction: Xbox Focusing On 'Blockbuster Games' Should Be No Surprise After The Failure Of Concord
@Banjo- That's just concurrent there were at least 1500 players!
Yeah I didn't say it WAS a blockbuster, but it was supposed to be one!
Re: Black Myth: Wukong Xbox Delay Reportedly Tied To PS5 'Exclusivity Deal'
It still seems unlikely. And MS saying this easily could be cute corporate wording to insinuate a connection where there is none. The classic "Do you still beat your wife?"
On the other hand, Sony and Game Science ghosting every media request for comment, combined with MS insinuating they have a deal.....it REALLY makes one wonder.
I get a policy of not commenting on rumors. But Sony has commented on rumors from Forbes multiple times in the past 4 years, and when the media AND your competitor are publicly insinuating you have secret agreements and you continue ignoring media requests for comment....... Either there's truth to it, or Sony's "doing a Microsoft" and creating their own negative PR by ignoring the negative PR.
Re: Reaction: Xbox Focusing On 'Blockbuster Games' Should Be No Surprise After The Failure Of Concord
The premise of this article is wrong. Concord WAS a "blockbuster game" in Sony's mind, not a risk in betting against blockbusters.
Re: Phil Spencer Talks About Two Activision Games That Xbox Missed Out On Signing
@Ralizah I honestly believe that, blindly, without question. The Yamauchi Clan didn't stay in power for over 100 years by being fools....
Re: Phil Spencer Talks About Two Activision Games That Xbox Missed Out On Signing
@themightyant @fbnaulin Much like CBS cancelling Star Trek in season 3.
Re: Phil Spencer Talks About Two Activision Games That Xbox Missed Out On Signing
@armondo36 could be worse. He could have bought Firewalk.
Re: Black Myth: Wukong Xbox Delay Reportedly Tied To PS5 'Exclusivity Deal'
@FatalBubbles TBH I haven't cared enough to follow close enough to have a list but there's been lots of games delayed on Xbox due to technical issues that we assume are true. Like wukong. But if there's monkey business here that Sony won't deny then maybe there's more to that? It's all weird
Re: Black Myth: Wukong Xbox Delay Reportedly Tied To PS5 'Exclusivity Deal'
@FatalBubbles agreed. Is honestly the silence on the matter giving it the most credibility now. It would be easy to say no. Do why won't they? And if it's true now, how often has it been true before?
Re: Black Myth: Wukong Xbox Delay Reportedly Tied To PS5 'Exclusivity Deal'
@FatalBubbles We don't know. That's kind of the point where this would be interesting on their response. One could assume there's no contract like this. But Sony so far seems to have had no response to any press inquiries. The silence is curious. It would be easy to say no it's untrue even accused by Forbes. And in fact they've done so before when Forbes printed they cut PS5 production and again when Forbes claimed they cut psvr2 production. They were quick to refute the false claims. This one? Silence. Curious indeed. If this one is real, it means others are probably real that we didn't know about. And if they don't answer I'm pretty much taking that as confirmation that against the odds this one really is true.
Re: Stalker 2 Hits The Headlines For Apparently Running At '25FPS' On Xbox Series S
@themightyant @awp69 "25 FPS"
I mean it's still twice the framerate of Dragon's Dogma 2 and Cyberpunk on console...
It is such a great take on media though. One on hand the headline is "25FPS on Series S!" OTOH, that means they're 5 frames away from the 30fps target and still in optimization development meaning it's nearly on target. How many "30fps" games dip well below that often on PS5/XSX? Or PC for that matter....
Re: Black Myth: Wukong Xbox Delay Reportedly Tied To PS5 'Exclusivity Deal'
@themightyant The deal thing still seems unlikely to me as well, however, the "they didn't market it" thing doesn't hold water, depends what the deal is, exclusivity money to take the marketing rights and make it their own vs hush money to delay the competition and keep it off the market and tarnish its image. The latter's probably a much cheaper deal yet gets the same benefits.
Do I think that happened here? PROBABLY not. But, so far neither company confirming or denying is raising my suspicions higher than they were. Silence can be pretty loud. And even if it's not this game, they may be sweating being caught on something they've done elsewhere. MS did pointedly accuse them of exactly that during the ABK trials after all.
Most likely for this game it's not a deal, and it's also not a "memory leak problem" so much as, as one dev commented during gamescom "nobody needs Xbox" - i.e. it's just last place priority and they DGAF. But the silence makes me curious. This game or other games...such deals may well exist.
Re: Stalker 2 Hits The Headlines For Apparently Running At '25FPS' On Xbox Series S
@Cikajovazmaj XSS is still the top selling Xbox, so I don't think there's a strong argument to say it wasn't worth it. If they didn't have the S, how small would the install base be? MS made a gamble on the low cost to entry market with the S and cloud. And a play at gunning for Switch with a similar price point but with expected "big console" games and features. It's a fair play, whether it ultimately succeeds or fails, the original strategy was a sound one. And without the S and the "second console for Game Pass" market it created, it's possible Xbox would be in even worse shape than they are.
S isn't their mistake. It's a challenge, but not a mistake. Annihilating their own momentum and brand presence was their mistake. If they had kept momentum and made Xbox/GP a must-have both on S and X, devs wouldn't have found the challenge of putting games on the S to be a "problem", it would be an opportunity. Like Switch ports.
Re: Roundup: The Reviews Are In For Razer's 'Wolverine V3 Pro' Wireless Xbox Controller
@electrolite77 Xbox started the $200 controller with the Elite, and it's boomed from there. Paid online, $200 for premium controllers.... How did we end up liking Xbox again?
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@Jenkinss Yeah, but the stated phrase of Square not being the most tone-deaf, detached organization lacking all self awareness was still hilarious
With XVI IMO that's still a game that NEEDED 60fps, and should have been built around 60fps, and it's inexplicable the game ever targeted 30fps at all on a single console full exclusive that didn't even have a PC port actively maintained. I can not comprehend the logic that went into that decision. I think that was less about placating forum warriors and more about realizing "oops" but not knowing how to fix it. I tried to play that in performance...I really did.....and I just can't. It's both fugly and low fps at the same time vs quality mode that's just low fps but not fugly. Should be labeled (Poor) Performance Mode.
@PsBoxSwitchOwner Square isn't first party but it was a first party paid full exclusive. Even Obsidian doesn't have that standard as they're doing PC and 2 consoles. XVI was a full exclusive for one single piece of hardware, without a PC port even being actively maintained and still couldn't do it. While making a character action game with the DMC combat director lol.
I hate this generation so much I've started hating consoles like it's 2001 all over again lol
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@Jenkinss "Square knows what forum warriors want"
I think you might be confusing Square with another publisher there...
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@GamingFan4Lyf Yeah, even with DLSS and frame gen on! It's definitely the most brutally demanding benchmark for GPUs. Cyberpunk and VR are the only two places where "4090 isn't enough" is true lol.
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@jedinite But it seems so much like an Xbox game. Unwanted, filled with controversy, and ultimately no sales. Made by former Xbox devs...
Tough it would have done better on game pass 😂. Maybe more than 60 people would be playing on PC lol
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@Jenkinss you can't hold not being aware of Concord against anyone. Everyone already forgot about it in June. It's the worst Xbox game ever
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@DennisReynolds. YES! Crackdown 4 is the solution!
@GamingFan4Lyf Of course it depends on the game, Hogwarts gets 100+ at 4k on 4090s with ultra and rt. But this game feels more cyberpunk. 4090s can't hold 60fps with ultra and full rt at 4k.
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@Vaako007 What Xbox really needed was an internal standards committee within Xbox that has set guidelines for internal games as to what performance targets are for their hardware so that their studios can design around that template. They don't need to micromanage, they just need to set the technical requirements for their hardware platforms for the teams to meet. It should not be hard. And MS own games shouldn't be a hodgepodge of downscaled PC ports and "we'll look at it later" for the #1 sold hardware SKU support.
I LOOOVE Obsidian, but how are they operating where they have an RTX hyped PC build, an console port at 30fps that they are "surprised" runs better than PC, and another console SKU they basically haven't looked at yet just before they were set to release? That's a lack of internal rules for hardware benchmarks.
@OldGamer999 Kinda funny that in 2024 the high water mark for video games is a platformer. And here we thought platformers have been dead for 20 years!
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@InterceptorAlpha Nah, I doubt it's using RT on console, but they're sure happy pimping the RT on PC. Which I bet performs like hot garbage even on a 4090 when cranked.
LOL I bought D2:LoD purely for the 800x600 upgrade. Also Blizzard gonna blizzard, even back then few companies would make you buy an expansion pack just to be able to change the resolution, let alone that change being a whopping 800x600 max. Even Rockstar would free patch that, and that's saying something!
Ever play Neverwinter 2? The game was everything Bioware's hideous NwN was not, they fixed the game and made a great D&D game finally. But the thing was a slideshow even on an upper-midrage card at the time (forget what I had), Rediculous performance crashes. Same with KotR2. Obsidian is a wonderful game designer but they're one of the worst technical teams in the biz. It's why the partnership with Bioware was great in the day. Bioware had great tech teams and horrible game designs and writing.
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@InterceptorAlpha "I'll be playing it at 100+FPS on PC,"
Not with RT enabled, you won't. If their own statements about performance here are anything to go by I'm betting 60-ish fps with RT on on a 4090, Cyberpunk style, is the best you'll get.
OTOH when you've been playing Obsidian games since they were founded, we should expect it by now. Amazing games. Terrible technology. That's how they've rolled since day 1. No 800x600 for you, get back in the 640x480 box. 1024x768 is for SLI/Crossfire players.
@OldGamer999 Much as I love Astrobot and Asobi nee Japan Studio, pulling off technical greatness on a 3D platformer on a modern console shouldn't be a test of technical prowess...
Re: 1997 PS1 Classic 'Croc' Is Getting A Remaster For Xbox This Year
@UBERSICKO "I did have a 32X"
Oh! So you were the other one! It's a small world.
Re: Roundup: The Reviews Are In For Razer's 'Wolverine V3 Pro' Wireless Xbox Controller
@Decimateh Hall effect uses a magnet to detect position. Traditional sticks use a carbon film layered potentiometer that rubs together to detect position. Hall effect can't develop drift the same ways traditional sticks can because theres no contact, it's just a magnetic field, however, the centering spring can always go bad or warp. But that's a much less common problem than the normal potentiometer film wear.
@Markatron84 If you're looking for PC and Switch only (not XB/PS without adapters) also check out Flydigi. Kind of a "no name" here, but they're the #1 brand in China, they have pretty nice stuff. Vaders and Apex's have Hall effect.
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
@andrewsqual I disagree with that reasoning. The game looking and running way better on the powerful hardware is exactly the point of marketing the powerful hardware. It's a great strategy to upsell the S buyers into an X. Cheap, you get this, expensive you get that. People would expect that. And is the same message PS5 Pro will use.
Making Series X look bad so that it sells more series S's instead of X's is a bad strategy.
Oh wait you're probably right then. lol
But, really that implies too much strategy. I don't think they're planning that far ahead and managing console optics that finely. I think their devs just carp out a PC build and dial it till it runs on consoles and that's the end of "optimization." Mostly that means 30fps mid settings. And accounts for the surprise it's running well.
@OldGamer999 To be fair, it's not an issue of Series S being a problematic thing. It's the fact that even this FIRST party dev didn't even consider it until after they built their game around other hardware and decided to "figure it out later".
The fact that they cite it's running better on XSX than PC, while they're already a formerly PC centric studio, it doesn't look visually demanding, and they didn't even consider their own company's top selling hardware model until after building it says everything that's wrong with game devs. It's not the hardware. It's the devs. Or the managers more like. In the 90's devs built a game to the hardware. In the 2020's devs build a game concept they like, then try to wait for hardware that can run it to exist.
This should be 30fps on series S, 60fps on Series X, lolfps/45-60fps RT with full path tracing. Anything else is just lack of trying.
@SodaPop6548 "Does anyone else notice how this sort of drama doesn't happen on other platforms" " first part developers for those platforms get what their customers want."
Well...there's always Naughty Dog....
Re: Obsidian Says Avowed Is Running 'Really, Really Well' On Xbox Series X, Despite 30FPS Target
Running really well on XSX......at 30fps?
Running better on XSX at 30fps than on PC.....?!???
Running better on XSX than on PC right after showing an RTX demonstration video where the game looks completely different on PC.....
First party studio working on Xbox and PC at the same time....."still figuring out XSS."
?????
triplefaceppalm
Re: Digital Foundry Compares 30FPS, 40FPS & 60FPS Modes In Star Wars Outlaws For Xbox
@themightyant No you didn't misread. I have a 60hz IPS panel, LG, not some weird Chinese unknown. Granted it's technically a monitor instead of TV but that shouldn't matter in this context. I just double checked the LG specs now to make SURE I didn't have something way more expensive than I thought with 120Hz But nope, listed as 60hz.
However 30fps has horribly noticeably uneven frame timing that appears jerky in motion. (I.E. "30fps is almost unplayable!" as I always say.) 40-45 runs perfectly fine. And 60 is ideal.
If I had to GUESS, the only explanation must be the actual panel is a 120Hz panel and something else on the display is limited, or just business reasons for selling the same panel for more money in a 120hz version means they restricted it to 60hz max, even though it's really a native 120Hz panel. Or something? 40 is playable, 30 is a juddering mess.
Given the amount of people with "30fps is unplayable" comments these days, and the dominance of LG displays in general, I would not doubt at all this is not uncommon for them. Many "60hz" panels may really be 120hz panels artificially limited to 60 (cheaper to produce one panel and limit it for cheaper skus?), and thus 30fps really is nearly unplayable on many displays.
I've always thought the panel market has a lot to do with the unending fps arguments.
@Mustoe "Now it's just a production line"
Yeah, ain't that the truth....that's so much of the problem, absolutely.
EDIT: It's an IPS panel, I typed TN originally for some reason.
Re: Final Fantasy Dev Insists The Future Is Bright For Square Enix Games On Xbox
@Ralizah Very true but before they mastered self sabotage squares missing presence, especially back when square actually mattered a lot more, did a lot to hold back Xbox credibility and adoption.
Re: Digital Foundry Compares 30FPS, 40FPS & 60FPS Modes In Star Wars Outlaws For Xbox
@OldGamer999 If you need me, I'll be in the leather aisle with Jensen. 😂
Re: 1997 PS1 Classic 'Croc' Is Getting A Remaster For Xbox This Year
@UBERSICKO @Markatron84 I had a 32X and a Virtual Boy. You may bask in my mythical aura for 2 minutes each.
Re: Digital Foundry Compares 30FPS, 40FPS & 60FPS Modes In Star Wars Outlaws For Xbox
@OldGamer999 That's ok, Phil's wandering with you. You might bump into each other.
Yeah, Asobi hasn't let anyone down yet, so I'm expecting quality from any remnant of Japan Studio. Shame Sony disbanded every other part of their best (but not most profitable) team...
Re: Digital Foundry Compares 30FPS, 40FPS & 60FPS Modes In Star Wars Outlaws For Xbox
@OldGamer999 One problem is of course that the hardware simply sucks. They designed it at a point that hardware wasn't really different from the old pro models. It's not a new generation. But the dev issues apply to PC too.
It's also too many cooks spoiling the broth. Look at the credits on these games. They run for an hour. Top budget Hollywood films credits last 10 minutes. How many different teams from different companies on different continents are working on the pieces of these games? How COULD it gel?
Trying to do too many advanced visual things on hardware that doesn't have room to spare with teams that don't work well together and often aren't even working for the same company.
This gen is so bad it pushed me back to PC. It had to be REALLY bad to do that. I swore it off for life. THAT is how bad it is...
Re: Digital Foundry Compares 30FPS, 40FPS & 60FPS Modes In Star Wars Outlaws For Xbox
@OldGamer999 I'm not sure what's going on with game development this gen. "Something" happened at the development level. Maybe Nvidia is just lead platform for almost everything with console as an afterthought? It's every publisher, every engine, EVERYTHING has the same problems. Maybe they just got rid of all the experienced talent and staffed up on interns for "good enough" for cheap? Throwing too many shaders and lighting and particle tricks at it beyond what hardware can really handle? Just assuming RTX is lead platform? IDK.
A lot of it has to be shaders/materials/lighting, particle effects going on. Why are resolutions AND performance tanking everywhere? It's not RT, most of these games don't even use RT by default. RT is a whole other mess.
Then we have all the CPU bound games, but why are they CPU bound suddenly when they don't seem to do much more than old gen games? Starfield was one of the only ones with an excuse with the amount of object tracking going on, but then that DID get a 60fps patch. But it's the res that takes a hit.
IDK, something changed in the dev of everything in the past few years, even if the end result doesn't justify the losses. The games all seem like they're being made for future theoretical hardware, or just built around 4080s and just tuned down till it runs on anything else.