
There's going to be a new undisputed winner in the "most powerful console" category when the PS5 Pro releases this November, as Microsoft seems perfectly content to stick with the Xbox Series X as its flagship console this generation.
We've already talked about how we think that's absolutely fine, but what are we going to be missing out on compared to the "Pro" console? Well, there are three key features that Sony is pushing with the PS5 Pro, along with a few smaller additions that make for interesting reading from an Xbox perspective as well.
Let's look at those three big features first - here's how Sony describes them:
- Upgraded GPU: With PS5 Pro, we are upgrading to a GPU that has 67% more Compute Units than the current PS5 console and 28% faster memory. Overall, this enables up to 45% faster rendering for gameplay, making the experience much smoother.
- Advanced Ray Tracing: We’ve added even more powerful ray tracing that provides more dynamic reflection and refraction of light. This allows the rays to be cast at double, and at times triple, the speeds of the current PS5 console.
- AI-Driven Upscaling: We’re also introducing PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution, an AI-driven upscaling that uses a machine learning-based technology to provide super sharp image clarity by adding an extraordinary amount of detail.
The idea behind all of these features is to achieve "higher fidelity graphics with smoother frame rates at 60FPS". A selection of games will be getting patches to achieve this, meaning they'll almost certainly play best on PS5 Pro.
That said, the list isn't very big at all right now, and a lot of the titles are actually first-party games - some notable exceptions include Alan Wake 2, Hogwarts Legacy and Assassin's Creed Shadows. Sony has yet to provide specific details about how these games will run on the PS5 Pro, but clearly the target is 60FPS with high quality visuals.
Beyond this, there's an interesting new feature called PS5 Pro Game Boost that apparently "may stabilize or improve the performance of supported PS4 and PS5 games" on the console. It's said that this can apply to more than 8,500 backward compatible PS4 games, so it'll be interesting to see how that affects some Xbox One-era titles.
At first glance though, PS5 Pro Game Boost definitely sounds an awful lot like FPS Boost on Xbox Series X and S.
"Other enhancements include PS5 Pro Game Boost, which can apply to more than 8,500 backward compatible PS4 games playable on PS5 Pro. This feature may stabilize or improve the performance of supported PS4 and PS5 games. Enhanced Image Quality for PS4 games is also available to improve the resolution on select PS4 games."
There are a few other things as well such as the potential for 8K gaming, although again it remains to be seen how many titles will actually take advantage of this - Gran Turismo 7 supposedly might be one of them. Wi-Fi 7 is included in the PS5 Pro as standard too, with the Xbox Series X still only supporting the old Wi-Fi 5 technology. There's even 2TB of internal storage, which Microsoft is only offering with the new Galaxy Black Series X.
It's still early days for the PS5 Pro and we don't really know how it'll stack up with the Xbox Series X until people get hands on with it, but for now, we don't think it sounds like that much of an advantage over what Microsoft and Sony already have on the market, especially considering it's launching at an eye-watering price of $699.99.
In any case, it'll be interesting to see the Series X comparisons when the PS5 Pro releases this November!
Do you think we're missing out on a lot from an Xbox perspective? Tell us in the comments.
Comments 81
I’m really looking forward to digital foundry getting their hands on this and seeing what the actual improvements are.
The clever PC gang have already sort of stated don’t expect on something like last of us 2 remastered to be full native 4K at 60fps with all quality mode features turned on.
It will probably be a lower native resolution using clever new upscaling processes.
Which to me is a bit of a cheat really.
I got no problem with upscaling — when it's implemented well — but for the price I wonder how many people would prefer to get a PC, even if it has "less power" by comparison, since that comes with the possibility of a significantly larger game library, an array of emulators, game mods, fan-translations, etc. And thanks to operating systems like SteamOS, ChimeraOS, and the upcoming Playtron OS, you can have a console-like experience if you want one too.
@101Force yeah , if console upgrades are truly a thing now then that just makes PC all the more a reasonable choice. as if it wasn’t enough incentives these days to have a PC already
Very simply: WE DON'T KNOW YET.
Until the features have been outlined in more detail - exactly what PS5 Pro boost mode does, whether PSSR is a game changer and most importantly how many games will get a bump - we simply don't know.
Currently I have no plans to buy a PS5 Pro, not at £700 without a disc drive. lol. But IF they somehow manage to show a tangible benefit to having one that makes me think "I need this" I will buy one. But that seems highly unlikely right now.
Missing nothing because the same games will still run on series consoles.
I’m sure others have said too that maybe it will make developers get more out of the X as it had more power originally
@OldGamer999 Using upscaling IS a bit of a cheat, but if it can produce results as good as XeSS or even near DLSS then it can actually look sharper than at native resolution, similar to super-sampling (having a higher-res internally but outputting it at a lower resolution reduce jaggies) in some situations.
Though PSSR doesn't even really need to be as good as those as it will be mostly viewed from a TV distance, not a monitor's distance where imperfections and artefacts are more noticeable. Like you I look forward to seeing what DF and others show, even if my interest is likely only academic.
Sea of Thieves plays best on PS5 Pro. Or better yet Indiana Jones
And to think that PS5 disc-drives begin to be sold out everywhere, in anticipation of that PRO model to come...
I fear that these players may give a bad signal to the suits in control, here...
(laughs in 4080)
$700 for a mid gen system is mind boggling.
@themightyant
My Sony tv does an amazing job of making my Switch look like Switch 1.5.
I get the settings in motion just right and upscaling and it makes so much difference to the switch. So much clearer and so smoothing when panning. This is only done out of the TV game mode, but is so ideal for switch.
I prefer playing my playstation on my portal now so I ain't bothering with the pro....i am done with being told how much better some product is by dweebs on the internet...only for me to be sat there pulling my hair out trying to notice a difference.. .
Had it with consoles, phones and TVs
While it is steep could be a good time to grab a cheaper standard ps5😎 plus Sony said they starting doing refurbs. Think gunna keep eye e out for a cheap ps5 so can play astro it and the ratchet and clan games tbh 🤣
@OldGamer999 At the end of the day if it looks awesome, who cares if they're "cheating"?
I've been enjoying my Series S for a while now and I was thinking of getting the digital PS5 pro but not at £699.99 ( that's like $900 with US tax deducted). I will just grab a Series X digital for £429 or maybe even cheaper.
@SleeplessKnight
It could look awesome only time will tell when I see it on 65” tv and we have some real comparisons.
Missing out on spending a lot of money? My PS5 hasn’t really done enough to justify what I paid for it yet, so I’m not inclined to buy a more expensive one.
Not much by the look of it, just seems to be quality mode settings at 60fps with the help of upscaling that's better than FSR. It still seems to have mediocre RT performance but this time at 60fps instead of 30.
Even without the ludicrous price it seems like a lacklustre upgrade but because of that price it's laughable
Xbox Pro would be a waste of time and money for consumers as developers really hone in on catering to lowest common denominator. Which in this case is the Series S and that's on top of the parity issue.
The console parity issue Microsoft forces does not help.
Any upscaling I've ever seen never works but with AI it probably will look better but upscaling the resolution for me never works at all native all the way check out the difference! Would of been nice if this was a bit deeper show what this actually has over the series x
I've been tempted by a PS5 for a while, not had once since PS2. At least a dozen or so exclusives that I'd love to play, but I just can't bring myself to do it while I still have 40-50 Xbox games on my account ready to play...
But if I did buy a PS it would be a standard digital PS5 for half the price of this thing...
@StylesT as long as you're happy with what you've got, you're golden 👍
Even the Series X Special Edition seems a bargain now.
>At first glance though, PS5 Pro Game Boost definitely sounds an awful lot like FPS Boost on Xbox Series X and S.
Somehow Microsoft's FPS Boost program - which has zero access to a game's source code - could work only on a few dozen games due to performance/licensing issues, but this ps5 thing works on 8500 games?!
Either Microsoft shat the bed or Sony is outright lying, with the "up to 8500 games" carrying a heavy load.
@TheLastHarbinger Exactly that. 1 and 2 are included in "up to 8500 games". As someone said elsewhere, "the fact that there were last-gen games being used to show off the power of this thing is laughable."
There was someone hoping for double frame rate on the upcoming current-gen GTA, but with the same CPU, it's also impossible. The presentations had a lot of blurb about AI upscaling that reminded me of the way that Sony sold something as ubiquitous as 3D audio as something unique and exclusive.
@themightyant No Mans Sky on PC is the only game I've seen so far that has AMD Fidelity with a native resolution option. (Normally you get quality / performance options).
It actually makes the game look better and you get an immense fps boost with it.
I'm sure there are other games that have this option too, I've just never seen any.
What’s interesting for me is to see how PSSR competes with FSR. FRS is dogshit, or is it more fair to say, developers are abusing it by upscaling from low resolutions the tech was never meant to be good at. DLSS is the gold standard in upscaling, I can’t see PSSR competing with it.
Either way there’s no way I’ll pay that much for the Pro, even with a disc drive I’d avoid at £700. It’ll still be interesting seeing how it all comes together.
Isn't the Series X technically underclocked? I mean... aren't there some features the system isn't taking full advantage of? I believe I've heard people in the industry claim it, I think Velocity Architechture was one of those things.
@Banjo- @TheLastHarbinger I'm pretty sure "PS5 Pro Game Boost" is the same thing as "PS5 Game Boost" but with a bit of an overclock and is very misleading. Meaning games that weren't hitting stable framerates or were uncapped on PS5 when running PS4 games will be able to do so with a bit more brute force. You know, exactly like how upgrading PC hardware works, but with Sony magic.
So it doesn't sound like it's anything like FPS boost that was adding 60fps modes to games that didn't have one.
I'd like to add, is anyone else bothered by PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution being shortened to PSSR? Shouldn't it be PSSSR? They've been shortening PlayStation to PS for 30 years, and now they've shortening it to P? NOT ON MY WATCH, CERNY.
So really all the PS5 Pro is offering over the Series X is to play games in fidelity mode at 60fps? That as well as an extra 1TB for £700, that’s the long and the short of it.
Hey guys/girls. It's going to be a massive game changer. There will be more games coming out. That's what it's all about! Wait no? They will still run fine on the base console? So why are we realising another console? Oh to make money for the lack of releases we have? Oh don't worry they will run slightly better when they do release! Look at the specs they will be amazingly different I mean there will be a massive improvement. It's pointless and the logically minded people know this. The others will get it for self gratification and bragging rights.
@NEStalgia Yes, it will be a brute force mode to iron out the frame rate of old games but marketed in a Sony way. The CPU is the same as PS5, so it looks even less an upgrade than PS4 Pro, but PS4 Pro made more sense as un updated PS4, considering the pseudo-4K capabilities and its price. The PS5 Pro overclocks the GPU for 4K-8K graphics using AI upscaling and is shown with PS4 games but don't include a disc drive. I'm trying to make some sense of the whole thing, but I can't find the logic anywhere. Most importantly, PS5 has barely any new Sony games that aren't PS4 games and it no longer holds Square Enix nor Activision's keys. If Sony didn't have any competition on the console market, if this was the only console available, I'd definitely be playing on a Windows personal/handheld computer rather than on PS5Pro/6, especially considering the price of the hardware, software and subscriptions and everything concerning the modern Sony, not to mention Sony porting their games to Windows.
@OldGamer999 you know me well. We have had a bunch of talks about countless things. My stance on the PS5 Pro is while yes it is overpriced. Sony is making Money on every one of those sold. But it does what i want it to do and that is bridge the gap until next gen and gives me smoother frame rate and better graphics and effects. Not all games will use the overhead power the same way. Some dev’s may focus on one thing or another to benefit their style of game. But the Xbox has made not one, not two, not three but 4000 mistakes since the launch of Xbox One and i am slowly getting sick of them. I will be buying my multi plat games on the PS5 Pro, and if Gears of War comes to PS then I’ll play that there also. I need MS to earn my money back. I love the Xbox controller even tho it needs a huge update. Mostly just quality improvements. Which i thought from the leak we were getting and we didn’t. But enough is enough with Xbox. I do not want or need GP, and bringing their titles to PS makes the Pro worth a little more to me then it would ever been if those titles from Xbox weren’t coming. Remember i said this, rebooting Halo and going to a prequel for Gears sure sounds like a PS5 announcement for me. What’s left for me there? Sorry ain’t trying to rant on you, but i know you feel strongly about this as well. I am loving Astro Bot right now. Like best platformer i have played since Mario and MS has what coming out? Indiana Jones for PS?
@HonestHick With the same CPU and overclocked GPU, I honestly think that you're going to be disappointed. People assume that all Xbox games will be on PS, but they don't know which ones and when. Maybe there's a next-gen Xbox console when it happens, much more powerful than PS5 Pro. Just trying to give you a small, well-intentioned reality dose. Perhaps, you'd be better off staying on Xbox, especially since Gears is your favourite IP.
@JokerBoy322 More that PS5 is overclocked. Basically, the Series X is more powerful than PS5. In order to reach a 10.3TFLOPS peak (Series has stable 12.16 TFLOPS), the PS5 has an overclocked mode that can't be running constantly because of the heat it produces. Technically, the Series X has some room to be overclocked via firmware update because it runs quietly and relatively cool, but I don't think that it will ever happen. Would I use the overclocked mode on Series X? Probably in games like Hellblade II, that needed a little boost. That said, now I think that it's likely that the next-gen Xbox arrives before the next-gen PS.
@Banjo- oh i ain’t leaving Xbox, but they do need to finally start earning my money than just me giving it to them if they are in fact bringing their titles to all platforms and those platforms have advantages. I am good with games going to more places for people to play, i think MS has a sound plan in terms of making money and building a ecosystem, just don’t forget about us over here on Xbox, and it is feeling that way with Series consoles. I think it’s clear MS can’t wait to get to their next gen plans. Which i can’t wait for either. I look forward to their next console and handheld. I just hit my breaking point with them a little bit this year. They need to get the messaging and plan out to us gamers better. It’s been a bit of an ugly year for Xbox in my eyes. Phil saying i have a business to run, then saying one more thing and ending their show on a PS5 announcement? Man thats just odd to me and a little frustrating.
@HonestHick It will be interesting to see if Microsoft will optimize their games for it. Not a great look either way to be honest. They either look petty by not optimizing, or they alienate more fans by having their own games play best on PlayStation. Kind of a catch-22.
I also agree with your points. I play on a 77 C2. Resolution is important at this size and I'll happily take higher resolutions at higher frame rates. I'm thinking of moving my Multiplatform purchases to PlayStation as well.
@HonestHick I just got a LG G4. I already had a C1 and a C9. I love Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos and I'm a happy Series X owner. Reading the comments about Xbox, I think that, mostly, the complaints this generation are all about hypothetical situations and the always unknown future, not about Xbox itself.
I always try to understand the complaints that sound genuine and it's true that Microsoft's communication and marketing is its own enemy and they mess up, also because they talk more than Sony and Nintendo, but that is not that important. The game development, the most important thing, is stronger than ever at Xbox. The fact that they are releasing everything on Xbox and PC and that Xbox and Windows are part of the same ecosystem, the strongest gaming ecosystem (because most players are on Windows except for Android), makes the occasional PS and Switch ports not the main objective, but kind of a secondary objective in a video game.
They have confirmed that there is a next-gen console coming, a handheld/hybrid as well according to rumours. Our purchases are safe. Backwards compatibility is here since Xbox One. That's what I wanted to hear, that they have committed themselves to the Xbox players. We are getting all the software and they are number 2 worldwide after Tencent. They're not abandoning consoles because they are part of the business and important for the community and for revenue. There will be Xbox consoles as long as there is a consoles market. And then, there will be Windows "consoles" like the handheld PCs, I guess. PCs with Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo games, only difference you wouldn't have to buy Microsoft's games again.
Everything else, like this game coming to PS5 (or not) shouldn't matter that much. They know that they can't do business on PS alone. Even Sony can't do business on PS5 alone. Sony stated that they are officially multiplatform now. Square Enix stated that they have abandoned PS exclusivity. Microsoft won't leave Xbox behind because they can sell 1m of Sea of Thieves (that is a massive seller on Xbox and Windows) on PS5. It's like when Nintendo released games for mobile and Sony started publishing games for Xbox. It doesn't change much except extra cash for the three of them.
@Secryt very well said. I agree if they don’t that looks petty and if they do we all jump there. They are backing themselves into a corner that i don’t see the out. Maybe i am wrong but it looks like they are weakening the brand more and more.
I too have LG Oleds. I have a 65 inch C2 in the media room and a 55 inch C3 in the downstairs living room. When you invest into this type of tech all extra power matters. I don’t love the price of the PS5 Pro, i thought it should have been $599 and i don’t do physical media so i don’t need the drive. But yeah i mean i do think giving up mindshare catches up with you in time. Sony spent $750 million dollar rumors have it to have GTA 6 exclusive marketing. They are going to market the PS5 and PS5 Pro with the largest game maybe ever, but for sure this Generation. How long can MS sit back and be like we have GP? Sorry thats not enough fight in the fight. You know as well as i do Sony is going to speak from the rooftops about having better looking and performing games, even if most people hate the price. MS is going to say play Indiana Jones on GP. I don’t want to beat a dead horse here or get ahead of myself, cause i like Xbox, but you can only not fight for us for so long before you have nothing but Cloud and PC left. Sony Smells blood in the water and even with the high price they will make sure they grow their install base off GTA 6 deals and other games. Don’t even get me. Started on BG3 missing Xbox at launch, you know just a game of the year title. Those are good looks buddy is all i am saying. By the way how much you love that LG Oled. They are so insanely good. I might even get a 48 or 42 inch so i can sit close and play hahaha
@Banjo- Yeah, I mean I think the logic is "Jim planned this from the start" and "we need to boost the YoY." It seems to be the apple playbook of "make an expensive thing to give people who like owning expensive things something to spend money on"
It sounds seriously awful for the money. All that rationalization that is supposed to be expensive and it's "sO MuCh ChEaPeR tHAn A PC" is insane. Even Nvidia had to cut the price of 4080 via Super because nobody was buying them. Technically it is cheaper but if you have to rationalize the price of products via trade in and resale of your old worn trash to uninformed buyers paying almost full price apple style, the pricing is wrong. The Sony loyal are looking more and more like the apple loyal. Its not about the product it's about brand identity. The people going on about gaming is "luxury" lol. Even PC people don't go on about all glass cases and luxury and this is a plastic box. It's everything wrong with Apple. Though Nintendo and Sony are both trying to be Apple.
@Banjo- all great point and welcome to another great TV enjoy that new LG TV they are so so good. I agree with you. I think Xbox is here to stay in their hearts at MS. But in the gamers mind i think they are slowing going backwards to think the Series consoles likely won’t outsell the Xbox One is a tad worrying. But I think the next console/ PC in a box model will work well for them. I hope it does, i am buying it haha. But this gen i will rock PS5 Pro for most titles such as GTA 6. Xbox will be what i need it for until i see their next plans. They have the studios to make some great titles and i agree i don’t know nor does anyone if more or what titles are coming to PS. But they leave that door open saying things like we have a business to run and more is on the way. CEO at MS saying he don’t like exclusives and wants games everywhere. Well how does that make a person buying a Xbox feel. Sure Sony will support PC, but i would eat a BBQ possum if Sony ever brought their titles to XBOX. It just won’t happen. Call it stubborn or whatever, but it’s not going to happen cause Sony wants high console sales to support their business. They don’t want people jumping ship. They know console players won’t leave in the 20’s of million to PC. Sure they might lose some but not enough to make it not worth making consoles. Xbox on the other hand, they need to get it right with the next one or they are down to what 25-30 million units. Not sure that cuts it.
@NEStalgia Nintendo became Apple but with old technology long ago, but what they really love about Apple is switching to white while it was the coolest thing ever and, most of all, how they are able to milk loyal fans and that's exactly what Nintendo loves to do, now Sony as well.
Don't you really hate when people use the inflation as the answer to everything? They even do the most basic maths, as if the inflation was a flat value you can apply to everything not considering any other variable. This must make you mad since your job is related to sales. Then, yeah, let's apply raw inflation since the first generation of consoles and let's be happy paying 6,000 for a 2024 console and 2,400 for each 2024 game.
@NEStalgia LOUD SIREN NOISES WO WO WO!!!!
Apple defender gets out of his car, do we have a problem here sir? I am getting calls of attacks against the most powerful tech brand on planet earth. LOL thats lame, someone, namely you will make fun of me for that.
Yes yes i love Apple, they sell me and billions an experience that is not achievable on other platforms. iMessage alone is one of the most powerful software features in the world. It’s a reason people won’t switch. I don’t think a video game company wants or can be Apple. Apple has saved lives on its Apple Watch, has products that simply change the industry and what people are creating and how they create them. Magazine covers being made from Apple Pencil artist on iPad the list goes on and on. For those that don’t like Apple and their “high” prices, they won’t get what i am saying. But a Samsung galaxy can and often times does cost more than a iPhone netting less benchmarks. MS Surface matches their prices or exceeds them to MacBooks. Apple has “affordable” entry points into their ecosystem, hence they are on their way to being worth 4 trillion. They collect all the money from all range of users. I think Sony missed the price on this console. $600 was the number and they missed it. But i do think Consoles are chasing something and it’s not Apple, i think it’s gamers asking for more and more but not truly wanting to pay it for it’s R&D and end cost with mark up. Sony has to make back their cost , not to this extent haha, but here we are. Apple wasn’t nearly the worldwide influence they are now back when Sony launched a $600 dollar PS3. This is a Sony problem and not Apple.
@Banjo- lol absolutely! I'm so tired of writing how just adding inflation doesn't work for discretionary spend items when inflation means necessities consume most if peoples discretionary income. What these people really mean is "I'm high income and enjoy feeling exclusive".
Sony seems to be just writing off the casual gamer as a lost cause to phones and potato pc and just trying to milk the enthusiast whales they see as their remaining market while still capturing game sales from the customers jumping to PC. I don't see that as a great future for them while even their exclusive stellar blades producer said he expects better sales on PC..........
@HonestHick The G4 is surprisingly bright because of the second-gen micro lens array, but still awesome quality and perfect contrast. It is the first time I use the dark room mode on OLED.
Jim Ryan is stubborn, but profits are driving the new CEO. Sony has already published some games for Xbox, but I agree that they mostly mean Windows when they say they are multiplatform now, but what if handheld PCs becomes more relevant or if the next Xbox can run PC games? I gotcha 😁.
Nintendo is stubborn, it's a nightmare for fans. Nintendo wouldn't hesitate to incarcerate them for playing roms of games they own on older consoles, uploading a video to Youtube or posting Nintendo art on Instagram, so of course they milk them to an unethical degree, illegally in EU. However, Nintendo has published games for Android and they will release games for Windows, Xbox and PS if their future consoles aren't successful, because the alternative would be disappearing... or becoming a Google/Apple store publisher?
The number of consoles sold is not important for Microsoft because their business is console, PC and cloud. They can sell 10m of consoles and still be all right if they can make billions yearly thanks to console, Windows, mobile and Game Pass. Sony has sold more consoles, not as many as some say (true numbers are 60m PS5 vs. 30m Series S|X, twice as much), but what does it really mean if last generation most people were using the super successful PS4 as a casual console for playing third-party FIFA, Call of Duty, Minecraft and GTA and this generation Sony's exclusives don't sell enough on PS5 either? Not to mention that Microsoft owns Minecraft and Call of Duty now. On top of this, Microsoft also makes desktop computers, laptops (I'm typing on Surface Laptop 4), tablets and even smartphones, so making Xbox consoles is a no-brainer.
Finally, I don't think that consoles are going anywhere, because they are convenient and mobile is not really the same, but I think that consoles will evolve and become gaming PCs, just like Xbox One and PS4 back in the day, but more than ever before, like the handheld-hybrid PCs we are seeing now. That would benefit Microsoft the most because of Windows.
@HonestHick I don't think gamers are asking for more. I think devs want to keep pushing their skill sets and marketers want something shiny and keep pushing hardware beyond its limit and gamers just want games that run right and every time we get that they they try to add more reflections and break it again. And the console makers love it because it keeps there cycle rolling.
Mk8 cod@1080p high fps, Minecraft that looks like Doom 1, Fortnite that runs on phones, and a PS3 GTA game are the best selling games over and over. Gamers aren't the ones asking for this. It's pushed on us and then we're told to pay up.
@NEStalgia I still don't get Sony's strategy now. Probably that, the Sony products for the enthusiasts, selling the brand as expensive as possible, as Apple, but they need Windows for staying in the business, so not as independent as Apple as they would like. Has PS become a pseudo-luxury mid-range PC-console or a full-priced budget Apple line-up?
I also noticed after the PS5 Pro announcement, not just the wrong inflation reasoning, but lots of comparisons were wrong, comparing the price to the standard PS5 instead of the digital PS5 and to the Series X Special Edition, that is not an upgrade but has double storage and keeps the disc drive.
Most importantly, if PS5 Pro is marketed as a backwards enhancements machine, why does it lack a disc drive? Sony has kept their games outside their own subscriptions and has offered a disc drive console until now. Not only the PS4 and PS5 disc drives are suddenly useless, but they need a separate disc drive and connect it to the newest console to enjoy their old games in AI-upscaled 4K-8K resolution.
@HonestHick Yeah, even Mercy admitted that gamers aren't asking for more when he said that 75% of players choose performance mode. I think that what they are asking for is more PS5 games. 😁
@Banjo- PlayStation is the new Vaio. A premium luxury mid-range PC lol.
Yeah the inflation reasoning continues to get my goat to no end. But the bad price comparisons are also really annoying. Including bad comparisons with PC parts. Like, of course initial in investment is higher out of the gate, nobody denies that, but the point is the TCO over a decade. The prices get a lot closer or lean opposite over the long curve. It may work out better or worse but 500+800 (stand and disc drive) plus pricier games maybe subs. You're already up to the price difference and we're only 4 years in. "But you can just buy a base model then" yeah and you can just buy a series s.... Or a steam deck.
@NEStalgia When a console plus the software is more expensive than the alternative PC, it stops making sense, especially considering that PS subscriptions are expensive and much more limited than Game Pass and that you now get Sony's games on PC. The PS exclusivity was the main selling point of PS and that dies this generation.
@Banjo- absolutely. Though I suspect there's going to go back and forth supporting games on PC. They'll realize they need to lock games to sell hardware, then they'll want the revenue. I think they'll be consistently inconsistent.
@NEStalgia Yeah, probably not all games and not at launch. I think that they lost more losing Activision and Square Enix's privileges, at least that's the impression I get. Losing their own games to PC doesn't seem so impactful to the masses although it is for us, the traditional gamers.
@Banjo- IDK that square privileges had been doing much for them lately anyway. Lackluster sales in general. Activision definitely though.
I figured astrobot would be one they keep exclusive. I was surprised to see the producer asking for feedback on interest in a PC port. Yet tlou2 didn't get one yet which you'd think it would have given the TV show and sunken sales on PS5.
@NEStalgia It has been reported that The Last of Us II Remastered would apparently launch on PC in 2025 alongside season 2 of the TV series. If Astro Bot launches on PC as the producer is considering, I think all Sony's games will, indeed. It is the full-blown version of the PS5 experience.
@Banjo- I'm hoping for it really. I know it's rumored they'll have their own launcher and store on PC which makes sense for price control in Sony style.
Plus if Astro goes to PC it'll get vr mods pretty fast so it'll finally run properly lol
@NEStalgia I slightly disagree cause gamers and YouTubers are blasting games like Starfield for being 30fps. More recently Avowed being 30fps etc etc, Again why not 60. Well cause the silicon at $499 is not giving that performance, you want it? It cost. Now i don’t think Sony should have gone $700. But it cost to get that performance and these companies, MS and Sony all talked about 60fps this gen and it isn’t happening and gamers are calling it out. PC hits 60 and above easily, 30 isn’t a thing over there unless it’s a potato. Yet that cost. I am not defending Sony’s price, nor am i saying every game on console can hit 60fps. But people wanted it and still do. This is our best answer for it and it’s not great cause it’s not good performance to price ratio.
@HonestHick the problem isn't gamers demanding more. The problem is developers overambitiously making games knowing they have no chance to hit the targets gamers want. they build vanity projects with all the effects they want to flex their skills on without actually designing around the hardware and what the customers want. Quest 3 is a phone inside. Games run 90 and 120fps easily. Why? Because they're designed for the hardware. You can't have devs building for 4070s and above while the common card on steam is 3060, handheld chips are rising, and the consoles aren't close. The devs know what gamers want and they know what hardware gamers have and they ignore it and build whatever they want for high end hardware and then tell gamers to buy expensive hardware if they want it to run right. This isn't a problem with silicon price, this is a problem with software planning.
@NEStalgia i agree with that mostly, but some devs see the sales in high end games with large budgets and stories. They see those cheap meta games as peanuts. Be that right or wrong, the budgets are going to the selling paying customers and they see it as the ones that want the industry pushing forward. Again be that right or wrong. Nintendo aside cause they march to them and them only. The largest pool of money wants high end games and stories in 4K 60. The ones that don’t want live service and sports games. Then you have the candy crushers. So plenty of options to take but the console market wants a little of all it. They can do that but there has to be more compromise to your point. I really like the Pro minus the price. It’s $100 high for what i think it will do. But they also need to show more of what it will do and can do. Cause in 9 mins with 2 of those talking about base PS5 won’t do that. The price aside the presentation was bad for a console like t this cause it’s not easy to show FPS and textures over YouTube.
@HonestHick I mean, those cheap meta games are a flavor of mobile games which are outperforming their "high end games" 1000:1.
Same for Nintendo games.
I don't see anything wrong with big budgets and stories so long as the budget doesn't exceed likely sales without fleecing customers. What I do see problems with is adding rt path traced reflective water and individual photon particle effects while clobbering CPU without even having physics that Half Life Freaking 2 had in like 2002 while knowing your customers want 60fps and are on PS5 and xss and 3060s and just dgaf. You can tell stories without setting 4090s on fire. Jrpgs do it. The PS3 did it. The PS2 did it. Deus Ex 1 is still one of the best gaming stores ever. In 1999. You don't need 700 dollar consoles and 1000+ video cards to tell stores or have big games. On fact the customers ACTIVELY keep telling them this.
4060s cost less than an OLED switch and run cod at 180fps in 1080p for competitive play. Something is wrong with the software part of the industry if they can't get this to work correctly. But they're too focused on spectacle because??
Compare the 700$ PS5 Pro to the 600$ Xbox series X which people have forgotten about. Who is that series x for? Seems to me that paying 100$ is a better deal even without a disc drive.
@NEStalgia agreed mobile gaming largely from Apple dominates the true gaming dollar. iOS is the leading money maker for App Store developers. So I get that, but thats a different audience and not why Sony made a Pro console nor target.
Nintendo games are just so different i don’t even touch when they are up or down. They are the kiss of death or jackpot. They go from rags to riches. Not from a IP standpoint, and market demand for those titles. But Nintendo is their own best friend and foe.
I mean i am caught playing devils advocate here maybe more than i want too, cause i see your points, but if no one is pushing this tech then is it not ready or is it just not needed or is it time to see advancement. I don’t think i can say. I agree consoles need to play to their strengths more and not push $700 price points to prove their points. Sony miss this price badly. I agree. But i love MS and Sony and pushing gaming forward in terms of tech, and what not and i think we agree. But within reason, take Astro Bot for example. It’s so much fun and so good.i am loving it. Best game of the generation in my opinion. It’s so console spot on. It ain’t trying to push above its consoles design. I see your points, i see and hear many others points both for and against it all. But there’s not a one size fits all in a creative industry. They are all chasing money but in different ways. Point is for me PS5 Pro is over priced but i want it. I think MS is smart to say no, we don’t sell enough hardware now. We don’t need that to add to the problem. Sony is fine cause the base console will sell really well.
I think... There's needs to be a line drawn, are games a creative medium or a tech demo? The industry never got this right on the PC side before console became PC. You can design gameplay stories all very well on a phone game or a 4090. Does the game need to push hardware boundaries to do what it's trying to do? And if so, why? Hardware makers need games to do that to justify selling hardware. Do software makers need to do that? Is photorealism to simulate live action actually necessary?
Meanwhile there's a vr app that sells 4 song concerts, mobile processor mind you, only a few artists participating right now, but big artists. It uses 3d capture and a ue4 environment and it seriously looks like you're there with the real artist. Sure there's only a few characters at once but it's a freaking phone chip. That needs to be photo-realistic, is a performance by a real person/band.
It's all vanity projects. They're pushing hardware they know their customers don't even have just because they can because tech demos are fun to create and are marketable. Is it needed? No. She Spiderman need to be 300m for a game that's like a really really pretty PS2 game? With less physics than the actual PS2 Spider-Man game.
The software part of the industry is seriously messed up. What they are spending money on isn't what everyone wants. It's what they want. The ENTIRE industry is now the original FFXIV team. The one that made flower pots with a higher poly count than the player model. Read yoshiPs commentary on what was wrong with og xiv. Everything wrong there is now the whole industry.
@HonestHick
You know me been with Xbox since day one.
But I let go a couple of months ago.
I have GPU until March 2025 and barring some Xbox miracle or total change then that will be it for me.
My PS5 is already now my main console as my Series x used to be.
Will I get a PS5 Pro of course I will be honest, I want the best I can get game wise.
I will get the best third party games, the best of what Sony have and the probably the best of what Xbox have, which for me only seems to be DOOM at the moment next year.
I shall see what Switch 2 brings and what big AAA Nintendo have. Though after only getting one new Mario 3d platform game Odyssey in 8 years isn’t that great. They did well with Zelda but they need to up their game after this year new AAA games wise.
Of course the Switch 2 will be utterly useless to me third party games wise as I have the other 2 consoles. And it will be a lot of old third party games like RDR2 etc.
Some really great and interesting insight here on a multitude of topics - interesting takes and great reads people
Hopefully more games will start using mesh shaders now. PS5 only had partial support via proprietary ‘Primitive Shaders’, so not many multiplatform games used them (Alan Wake 2 was probably the most notable example), but PS5P has full mesh shader support apparently. Hopefully the quality of XSX ports will increase a bit as a result?
@OldGamer999 well people on push square are already expecting gta 6 to be 4k 60 with full ray tracing
@OldGamer999 the best you can get is a pc
@NEStalgia a "pc" that lacks all the benefits i.e mods, cheaper games, personalised performance settings and no paid online play.
@NEStalgia It's a shame that even Sony's PS5 games like Astro Bot have performance issues. It's shocking that the physics and AI are worse than generations ago because most developers care about the particles only.
Yes, Sony might launch their own PC store. It's what Nintendo will do if their next consoles aren't as successful, because I don't think that Nintendo would limit themselves to the Google and Apple stores and abandon traditional gaming in that case, but who knows. Next generation is intriguing already. Both Microsoft and Sony on the PC market and Nintendo could either go Switch or go Wii U.
@101Force That's the difference between Sony's and Microsoft's business models. Even if you were to buy a PC with DLSS for example, you won't be playing Sony's games the day they release - but you can with ALL Xbox games.
In other words, MS don't 'need' a high cost, high performance system with AI Upscaling options, with the ability to offer 'Quality' visuals at 'Performance' levels of 60fps (or more) when they already have PC's delivering that. The Console is supposed to be a 'low-cost' box to allow the mass market to play games much more affordably. You want 60fps Starfield, Hellblade 2, Avowed or whatever other '30fps' Series S/X games release, then the PC can deliver - and with DLSS, has AI upscaling too if needed.
MS went a different route for a reason - they stuck with the '$300' entry console (similar price to XB1S/PS4/Switch launch price and many consoles before) to keep giving people that 'low' cost entry option into gaming. The $500 Premium (PS4 Pro/XB1X equivalent) Consoles are already on the Market.
They don't need to 'compete' with themselves on the PC - why buy a Console if you have a Decent PC anyway - unless you keep Games away from that market to force them to buy Hardware for the 'Exclusives', PC gamers aren't buying an Xbox these days regardless so you don't need to make a Console for that market when you already have that market in your ecosystem.
@Deityjester
I’m not sure that is true I go on Push Square and yes the odd person but most are staying reserved about it really and lowering expectations.
But for PS5 and PS5 Pro sales it probably doesn’t need to. Sony will have the advertising rights with GTA6 and with their PR that will be enough.
@OldGamer999 Agreed buddy, i will get Switch 2 for the exclusives, as i always do with Nintendo Hardware. I think it will be a great system and give some extra performance to their lineup. Sure only one Mario game but i loved that game and beat it twice and collected everything. Really enjoy it.
PS5 Pro i will be getting also and for sure playing Doom there if it’s pro enhanced. Runs best and has better effects and experience. I will be playing some stuff on Xbox as i won’t just leave them completely, but they better win me over more with the next gen cause Series consoles have had a lot of mistakes and bad marketing and PR speech. I still can’t believe they would end a show with a just one more thing and that one more thing is ending a Xbox show with an announcement of a big game coming to PS5. That was a slap in the face to a lot of us Xbox guys. To me that was a bigger slap in the face than the Pro’s $700 dollar price tag. Time will tell, but i am going to start being more critical of Xbox going forward. The free passes on mistake after mistake has worn me thin. Not trying to be negative. They just need to do better. 😀
@HonestHick
Yes that told me everything and was the last straw for me.
Doom day one on PS5
Indy announced, show end for PS5
Microsoft can do no more to put me off the Xbox consoles and GPU.
And now with PS5 Pro probably ring the best place to the third party games.
Xbox had nothing for me hang around for I’m afraid.
And if Nintendo have those exclusives.
I think the price for what you get is nuts but I am hoping that Sony pushes for new exclusives. Otherwise no real impact to me.
@OldGamer999 i hear ya, i am going to hang onto Xbox as i do like it, but i want to be clear that i will be getting a PS5 Pro and playing my games on that machine more times than not. Sorry not sure i can play my shooters on that controller. Everything else will be on Pro. I have been on the record for months now saying the Pro console is for me. It’s not for everyone and many don’t have the TV to fully need it. But i am liking what i am seeing in some videos I’ve watched recently on the Pro. It’s going to be a monster.
@Banjo- Yeah, I don't know what it is with modern devs. IDK if it's pure vanity, where, I think a lot of them are in an arms race to "prove their worth" and "keep their skills marketable and up to date" by always being deep into whatver the latest cutting edge is, so their continuing education comes at the consumer's cost, because they're all afraid of being obsolete, which is a deep industry problem if true, or if it's the marketing heads pushing forever on "we want shinier" and nothing else matters because shiny stills and youtube vids sell games. But we have more powerful, more expensive hardware than ever that drives ever shinier looking games than ever with ever worse performance and hollowed out gameplay. Physics just astounds me. We had physics on everything in HL2. We had physics in old PS2 games. For all it's faults, BotW had full physics simulation on every object across the world running on a 2011 tablet. Yet the PS5/Pro and XSX and $3k PCs still don't get games with physics in 2024 and performance is terrible. Something is really really broken in the industry, and it's not the hardware. And buying more hardware to brute force past the problem isn't a good solution.
@BAMozzy : With SteamOS and its variants growing in popularity, I'd argue that Microsoft needs to change their business plan though. Microsoft should release a "gamer's version" of Windows to compete with Steam, where Microsoft could put the spotlight on their own store and attract buyers of the OS itself with its better compatability, while Xbox "consoles" would become more of a PC standard for developers to aim for and to compete directly with Sony by selling machines at cost that are locked to the new OS.
All this chat about FPS and Raytracing doesn't do anything for me... game companies will still provide mediocre AAA games that aren't fun to play for premium cost... but HEY! At least the graphics are super realistic. 😏
The PS5 Pro hype has been silly (including that coming from IGN's McCaffrey). They completely disregard the actual specifications of the Series X vs. the PS5 and PS5 Pro, in favor of some fantasyland speculation. Sony hasn't even revealed concrete specs for the PS5 Pro.
We know about 60 CUs vs 52 for Series X and 36 for PS5. RAM and CPU clocks were already faster and locked on the Series X. PS5 variants have to share power dynamically between the CPU and GPU. Sony reports max clocks for the chips when both cannot run at max clocks simultaneously.
What difference? What I see is the ps5 graphics looking not the best though the video and the different they are showing between the ps5 and ps5 pro is marginally, I think the ps5 looks a bit better then the ps5 pro. And it seems that on the ps5 lots of games drop the resolution to 30fps for better performance and only achieve 60fps with a drop in graphics. And the improvements are only showing small clips from 4-6 games.
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