Phil Spencer Remains Tight-Lipped On Whether Final Fantasy 7 Remake Will Come To Xbox

I doubt it will ever come over TBH. While nice for those that want it, I'm personally happy with the original still.

I miss turn based games and was let down when it finally came out this was more akin to Kingdom Hearts.

It’s definitely possible but I think FFXVI and Pixel Remasters should be prioritised, then we will have ALL the mainline games 1-16 minus XI.

They should be asking Square-Enix about that, because clearly there are some ... contracts and business deals with CERTAIN platforms that make that difficult currently (we know this from the FTC documents). Go straight to the horses mouth because Phil clearly can't say.

@CaptainCluck I DEFINITELY want the pixel remasters (the snes games are still the cream of the crop in my opinion) but I would prefer ff7 remake stuff rather than 16. That looks to be the better game in my opinion and hits that nostalgic feel.

Finally tried my first final fantasy in 16.....really want to like it as my mum got it me for my birthday...but my god it's such a boring slog that I have to force myself to play for just a short period of time

Does an Xbox fan actually care about final fantasy games?

Not sure i care that much other than i care for those that want to play it and own just a Xbox. I do however wish FF16 would come to Series X. That i do want to play and give a try. But not sure that will make it to Xbox either. Have to wait and see. More than likely i will get it on PS5 when it’s $50 or less.

I think this is a done deal but some dominoes need to fall first… Phil usually calls and says “what do you need”…..

This is a fancy way of saying "yes" it sounds like. Though it could be a long wait. It's good to see the square elephant in the room get officially talked about.

@StylesT Starting with the worst first, huh? I'm kind of joking, people seem to love it that love it, but playing 16 as your "first final fantasy" is like eating a tomato as your first fruit. It may be awesome, but it's a fruit by horticultural technicality alone and has nothing in common with a fruit in a culinary context. One may like FF, or they may not like FF but playing Bayonetta of War means you've still never played FF.

@Baler Yes, but more important is the question as to if Final Fantasy fans migh care about Xbox if only it would have FF on it reliably. How many people choose PS over XB just because FF and other JRPGs are guaranteed on PS and not on XB?

Though the bigger question these days is if FF fans care about current FF at all which is a whole other question

Since we're giving our Squeenix wishlists, here's mine in order, at least off the top of my head. Huge dropoff for me after the first 2.

FFVII-R
The Last Remnant Remastered

Tactics Ogre Reborn
Octopath Traveler 2
Triangle Strategy
FFXVI

I brought FF7 on Playstation, and would quite happily buy both on Xbox again if they came to it. Loved those games.

@Baler I sure do 🙃

What he actually means to say is, no it's never coming to Xbox.

Lol that was a masterful dodge, you have to give him credit. I'll say this: I just kind of doubt that ff14, while apparently a great game, is the be all end all of this agreement, nor do I think this is about some final fantasy game that's 5 or more years away. PROBABLY ff7 and especially ff16 are coming, but all the particulars aren't worked out yet. I'm in the very small minority that didn't really enjoy the remake, to be honest, but I do hope the games come over.

Sony has paid too much to exclude Xbox with these games. The future may be different however.

@J_Mo_Money naaah..... As long as Sony is there they will do everything they can to stop square from releasing games onto Xbox. To a certain point square will eventually loose money and Sony will take every credit. I will be honest, Sony CANT help square to make money.

I'm personally fine with it all three parts coming out at once as a collection.

@StylesT I only played the demo. The cutscenes are top-notch. The spectacle boss fights are visually impressive.

Everything in between felt like an excuse to have something for the player to do other than walk between said cutscene and/or spectacle boss fight.

Personally, Square Enix games are dead to me. They were good at delivering games on XB360, then since the FF XIV fiasco they have shunned XB. I will be shunning them for the foreseeable future.

@NEStalgia long time no say hi

@mousieone Hey, someone remembered me!

If you say my name three times at midnight, I appear in the mirror.

At least I didn't pull a sploosh and am just awol instead of deserting.

I didn't intentionally disappear, at first I was just busy and didn't get to it, then got sucked into other hobbies that are time and money consuming and just haven't happened to have time to follow games media and comment.... And I FINALLY beat P5R which took since May, and am working on Pikmin and haven't even glanced at Starfield.... Though I have a feeling I'm going to get Detective Pikachu instead in Hogwarts as my Christmas treat because that's just totes adorbs.

@NEStalgia no I get it. I haven’t been o this board much either but as I don’t have any other way to connect with you. You know your humor is great for stress. Detective Pikachu is my holiday name

@mousieone Aww, thanks! Shame there's no PM board still, but you can tag me anytime, I'll always get the notification, and I didn't actively leave the board, I'm just passively too lazy to bother logging in while doing a bunch of other stuff, and don't need the encouragement to spend more money by reading new backlog fodder

Oh, and I barely even started totk! It's not clicking for me .... Too much Minecraft. But I didn't let it open up either, I got stuck in a stealth shrine I hate.... What's the opposite of rage quitting...dgaf quitting? . And I've been absorbed in p5r for so long and want to adopt Morgana. . Actually I'm pretty sure I once had Morgana, only difference is Morgana doesn't seem to pee on everything. That we know of.

@NEStalgia lol well I understand but then I have to hijack and old thread to talk. Unfortunately lol but good to know your around

@mousieone Yeah, I get why there's no PMs but basically every other forum has them so it still is annoying.

But yeah, I'm not splosh, I don't just delete and disappear . Speaking of, I haven't posted since July I think and just checked the headlines and it's the same freaking headlines that were there back then! Ff7r! Merger! Management restructure (new titles for the same jobs, woot!) Skull and bones delayed! Even a picture of Bobby without a trigger warning. I'm pretty sure if I ignore the site till April it'll be the same headlines

At least I've enjoyed an escape from ponies.

@mousieone BTW, totally randomly OT and rumordrama-free on this old hijacked thread, but last we talked here we mentioned Detective Pikachu - I actually reversed course and went with Hogwarts for the Christmas game after all and was pleasantly surprised how fun it was. Decided to save Pikachu as the Easter game, so I haven't played it yet. If you stuck with it for the holiday game, how was it?

@NEStalgia I bought it but I didn’t play it ._. Oops. I mean I was busying playing P5Tactica. Hehe. Wow yeah definitely drama now. I’m really hoping that this gets settled. But I feel like it won’t @.@

@mousieone Ahh darn, was curious how it was. I'll find out in a month or so anyway!

Oh wow you're going to tempt me on p5t now. I forgot about that but was going to skip it.... I just binged p5r from April through October, then started strikers but only did the first chapter and now p3r is out... And I'm burned out on srpgs. But you're tempting me.

Actually just finished the Kiryu anthology minus the new one. Yikes y6 was a dumpster fire. Bad combat, bad bosses, bad story, they turned haruka into a bad plot device, wrote out majima until the end.....I thought it was just me until I got a diamond rare achievement for finishing... Chapter twelve then two more for the last 2 bosses. Everyone just played until they found out who harukas boytoy was and then just quit that disaster before even finding it the big (stupid)"secret" ("kill everyone to preserve our secret..... Museum exhibit!") lol. Even with game pass I've never seen a game where finishing the last 3 chapters gets you 3 rare achievements. That's just sad. 😂. And that ending.... Makes me not want to play y8 and endure 100 hours of gloomy near death kiryu victory lap.... It's gone full Sony 😆

If you didn't see my drama prediction in another thread the tldr is "select titles on a case by case basis that will be announced at a later date.... Blah blah power of ai in gaming."

My bet is they announce crackdown 4 that will leverage the power of AI.

@NEStalgia Well it is basically case by case. I don’t know what the future holds, but I’m willing to bet they are pivoting into a different piece of hardware from the Series X. I guess we shall see what becomes of it. I don’t know. When outlets like The Verge stoke the fire, I feel like we are never going to have an end to the drama.

@mousieone Yeah, I think my predictions turned out pretty accurate. Non-answers that actually confuse the matter more! That's pretty much Xbox marketing strategy since Kinektimals. "It's 4 games, but we can't tell you which 4, but there could be more, but it's not Starfield, but we won't rule anything out, but it's only 4 games, but that'll let us learn for other games because we're cross platform but it's only 4 games to guide us to a strategy of crossplatform."

IDK about a hardware pivot. I think we'll either get the Series X-X or the hybrid handheld XSS with that holiday 24 announcement. Since they're saying next gen is super massive leap in hardware, and even gave a 2028 timeframe, I don't think we're breaking the normal console cycle just yet. For now it still has to mirror the PC GPU cycles, including price drops on the architectures. For now I think hardware is safely status-quo, I just don't see anything in what they have said that could really deviate from that.

Only thing we really learned is the Xbox Doomed narrative is now going to go into full swing forever more, and MS paved that road in tears over the past week. I think they're preparing for a non-console future, but they can't figure out what a non-console future actually looks like because cloud didn't take off like it was supposed to.

My only prediction: Nintendo hits the non-console future before anyone. Fite me.

@mousieone ...I blame you, personally, for dragging me back into this. 100% of the blame lies at your feet...

(j/k, of course, it was nice to be appreciated enough you went to the trouble of summoning me. I wonder who had to be the blood sacrifices to open the summoning circle though. Eh. Not my problem. )

@NEStalgia well Sploosh we knew him well

If you had a discord option

@NEStalgia of course because MS always decided to be first on this stuff. I do think Sony GAAS will show up on Xbox of Marathon does well. I don’t know what extra money they thing Pentiment will generate on PS. Honestly I don’t know why they are doing single player games all at. GAAS stand to make more money in the long run and the community wouldn’t care. But you know that’s Microsoft.

@mousieone Hmm...and what if I do have a discord option...?

I haven't actually logged into it in a few thousand years, I think the last time I logged in was before they became a "social media platform" - used to use it for Splatoon gatherings back in the day. That was....a weird...group.... Maybe I'll have to dust that off and figure how how that even works again!

Sploosh...well....yknow....I'm sure had he not been desiccated for the summoning ritual and all, he'd have absolutely approved. We'll just think of it as posthumous volunteerism. Makes me wonder what to do with the cage now, though.

@mousieone MS...yeah....they carefully picked 4 games for reasons, and they're very adamant that those reasons are like really super strategic and stuff. And they couldn't get anyone to play Pentiment for free in GP, so I'm not sure how they'll get PS players to pay for it. (Fantastic game though!!)

That whole presentation was awkward though. Like REALLY awkward. Like Wii Music awkward. Like Giant Enemy Crab awkward. I'm not sure if the "4 games" is backpedaling after the disaster week or if that was always the plan. But they seemed to be going really far out of their way to really really explain.....stuff everyone already knew and expected. Weirdly they doubled down on the good stuff it looked like they'd back away from.

But....it seemed like they were working hard to soft sell.....nothing? Like if they just announced each of those 4 games by themselves in a tweet, it would have been a story buried in 3 hours on this site under multiple articles about Phil putting a lettuce sandwich on his shelf. So why make this giant wave for Verge to pick up?

THIS is why I stopped paying attention after the ABK trial!

@NEStalgia fatalbubbles is still around. I have different options besides discord. Including email >.> as Dino is that is these days.

@NEStalgia well yeah basically. I’m sure the MS execs want more money per title. And I’m sure the Xbox execs want to keep exclusives. The issue is they both aren’t going to win. My issue is in the long term what does a commitment to hardware mean.

I think this GP will solve all the issues needs to stop. Someone needs to wake up and realize that isn’t a compelling enough reason yo own an Xbox. And when the sub drops off when games lol Starfield move and the MS execs start panicking again then they’ll alter GP. When the solution is to fix the brand image and stop half a$$ing the marketing and the branding. When will MS learn the value of marketing a brand properly?

@mousieone Lol, at least the cage won't go to waste!

Are you dissing email? Nobody disses email in front of me! It's like texting for grown ups. Who need more than 144 characters to express an idea. And paragraphs.

I'll try to get either discord set up or just a stealth email and post it temporarily here later so you can grab it before I delete it sometime later.

@mousieone I think the commitment to hardware is legit. I just think their idea of the role of hardware is PC like rather than Nintendo/Sega/Sony. They're not interested in building Xbox as "current iteration fixed box" and doing that messes with the PC synergy too. I think the box is a convenience box in the same way surface pro is a(now super expensive grr) convenience way to get to Windows stuff. To me as a lapsed pc gamer their strategy makes a lot of sense and it's how I expected it to go since the x1 which is why I jumped back in. Assuming I have it right though.

I'm totally with you on GP is Everything though. I actually think they could have made that work if gp supported cloud play of owned games early in. But it's kind of stagnated like consoles, it's not really a Spotify/Netflix setup. Gaming doesn't work like that, which honestly is a bad thing and that's another conversation, but ms still is all in on a dead end. That said they're not trying to move consoles by offering gp. They're trying to get gp subs by selling consoles. And digital store lock in.

That's the key. Whether gp or sales, the store front is the product. The consoles and apps are just access points to get customers in that library instead of someone else's. They'll never beat Sony console sales. They know it and don't care and really Sony doesnt care. What they really want is that you build your library in their wallet garden so you have no reason to ever build one in someone else's. 20 years from now who'd switch to Sony or Amazon if all your stuff is in your Xbox library? Right now they just need to incentivize enough people to do that at increasing rates until they have a critical mass of locked market share. Like Apple. At least that's their strategy I think.

I think as long as Phil is there they have a solid strategy that really understands gaming. They'll grow but not fast enough for corporate targets. That's when the problems start and corporate rolls back all the good will and momentum. The day Phil is gone though, we'll want to head to that nuclear submarine to play our Xbox 360s in.

@NEStalgia I agree the box isn’t the strategy and that’s not the issue. The issue is the underlying problem with their over reliance on GP.

The box is the best way to bring new GP subs in and PC. But you can’t do so if GP isn’t on other things. Their PC and gaming strategy starts and ends with GP. If they built the ability to move your saved anywhere; it would be PC like. But I can’t just move my Hi-Fi Rush save to PS5.

The walled garden persists but now one side only has to wait a year to get what they want meanwhile FF remains tethered to the other side.

It’s all fine and good to take a PC approach but when that approach is rather one sided it’s rather difficult.

And how do you make hardware when the install base stops at 27 million ? How do you justify that?

I can’t see the install base growing now. They clearly don’t care about the box. If Phil wants to make another console what’s to stop Brad from saying no?

@NEStalgia I can’t see GP a compelling enough reason to own an Xbox and I can’t see the money people signing off on another piece of hardware that barely moves off shelves. PC do more than just play video games, so you can’t completely be PC like unless the next Xbox suddenly allowed me load quickbooks etc.

See why this strategy doesn’t work?

Again it’s all good and well not to be tethered to a box but how do you get someone into an ecosystem with no reason to?

Oh Gp?

Games take months to finish and people would rather have the entire library than a weak version and a lower cost.

People don’t go into books stores with 15 books even if they are dollar each

@mousieone Sooo, there's a few points here. I agree about overreliance on GP in general, but it's still a PC-like setup. You can take your saves between your console, your cloud phone, your cloud tablet, your gaming PC. That's basically 90% of all gaming there. The only place you can't take your saves is your PS5 and your Switch. What's the proposition then? Play in the Xbox ecosystem and move your saves anywhere. Or play the same games trapped in your little Sonytendo box forever.

You're right, the Sony market only has to wait a year and now they have no need to buy an xbox, only a playstation. But, the question, then, is was that market going to switch teams anyway? Clearly not. And more importantly, Sony may dominate console, but console is less than 10% of the gaming market, including Sony, Nintendo, and Xbox's own share. So, what, MS loses 6% of the gaming market by letting PS owners not buy Xboxes, while also offering them the same games for a fraction of the price over cloud if they just sub? Pay $70 each to play these games on your PS or $18 to play all on cloud on literally any other device you own?

How much overlap/loss is there? We're stuck in the console space and not looking at total "gaming" revenue. From where MS sits, the entirety of Playstation is practically a joke next to their Minecraft/Candy Crush business alone!

@mousieone
Similarly being on PS helps cement the brands under Xbox and build up more brand cache. That makes the proposition of GP elsewhere look stronger. Imagine if Ubisoft Plus could sell something less terribad than Skull and Bones, it could look valuable!

As for justifying hardware, and corporate not greenlighting it, I think we're working with the wrong numbers. No they're not focused on the box, it's not the strategy, or the future. But it's a halo product (or a Halo product?). The question isn't "how dominant is the hardware compared to competitors, how manu units does it sell?" The question is how much revenue in terms of purchases and subs do consoles bring in, how much engagement time do consoles bring into the XB platform, how much vendor lock are they building via consoles in key markets to convert into subs over 10y? If selling the hardware is building returns in the software s&s and cementing the platform ecosystem in key markets (read: NA) then it's easy to justify the hardware manufacture as a function of platform growth. Additionally it gives them the all important retail marketing footprint next to competitors that helps promote the software/brand/retail footprint.

I don't think they'll make consoles forever. I don't think Sony will, either, though. Nintendo will. In 2048 they'll release the WiiWii will will incorporate cutting edge battery tech that delivers 10x the power of LiIon in 1/3 the weight and size, and it will have an ultra high density 30k resolution screen, but will only display grayscale and will launch with a Mario game where Mario is inside the pages of a 19th century newspaper. It will outsell PS14 3:1. Xbox will sell Elder Scrolls 6 on it. Which won't launch until the console's last year.

@NEStalgia But see you can’t take your saves everywhere. Select Xbox games only. Most third party games are locked on the hardware your purchase them on. As for cloud, a lot of third party games can’t be played on cloud. This logic always ignores the third party, as of that isn’t a big part of the library.

Again I understand the pc like concept but an Xbox is limited compared to a pc. On PC there are multiple store front. People like to think it’s just Steam but the reality is there is choice. And even if my most of my games are on Steam, I don't have to to swap hardware to get to the Epic store.

The Xbox is still a walled garden. A more mobile walled garden but still walled.

As opposed to Pc. It’s not about the hardcore locked in spaces but those people on the fence. Casual gamers do still swap between systems. Even with the overlap most overlappers but their third party games elsewhere. The ecosystem doesn’t have true gotta have gotta be. That’s where money is right? Software/Services but again how do grow that?

People aren’t buying Xboxes. PS/Switch aren’t allowing GP.

As for GP games take a lot time to finish so the comparison of 17 vs 70 goes out the window If the one game takes you a couple months to finish it.

Literally I don’t see a reason to invest in an ecosystem that just sort of relies on users being cheap.

@mousieone You're going to go full Pony by 2025 aren't you?

While I may be drastically overestimating the competence of Microsoft, which is really a mistake I should have learned from making enough times in the past, but I think that roadmap isn't following through the long term plan. Most 3rd party isn't available on cloud with cross save today. But as Matt said years ago and Phil reconfirmed last week will start coming soon, the rest of 3rd part is going to be migrating onto cloud. As we've said, the console isn't Xbox, the cloud ecosystem is. That means 100% of the library (or at least "most" of it) is going to be moved into cloud capable eventually. That also means the saves will carry over with it - everywhere except PS+Nin.

The idea is the "platform" is a virtual xbox in the sky, whether it's cloud, or running on a real gaming rig/console, the 'platform" isn't the part in your living room/desk, it's the part you log into. To do that that means the whole library will be available on that platform, it's just not ready yet.

Of course "it's just not ready yet" has been the hallmark of Xbox since the Call of Doggy mandatory Kinekt show. Maybe they're not that competent. But that's the roadmap I'm expecting for them based on what they've said and what just makes sense.

The thing is , there's no point competing for PS's business. It's smaller scale than MS wants to be in, it's not actually most of gaming, and it's arguably a dying business market anyway. Not game/IAP/service sales but a "console". So what DO they want to compete in in gaming? They're not going to cripple PS5. But what about occupying the next space in gaming before the PS7 before it gets there? Or creating a new category? PS appeals to a particular type of gamer, but it's still actually a minority of all gamers. A portably-driven xbox is more Nintendo competitive than PS competitive, but, last I looked Nintendo was crushing Sony under its heel in raw unit sales.

I can't say any of this will be a successful strategy, but I don't think it's a bad strategy.

And as a consumer, the only options are going full Pony, waiting for XB to collapse, and then being locked to rebuying $105 games every time they put out a new store update, or stocking up on LED strips and going 1337 on PC, then playing no games while you roll back mobo firmware updates until it stops crashing. I can't say I dislike XB's strategy. The only question is if they can actually do it without shooting themselves in both feet with a cannon.

50/50?

@NEStalgia No I don’t want to own any console ever again thanks to MS.

You’re missing what I said. There are a number of third parties games that do not want their stuff streamed. Square Enix doesn’t allow any cloud versions of Final Fantasy.

Not to mention cloud does nothing for those of us with sucktastic networks on a good day. I’ve seen mobile games now say Wi-Fi free.

And the play anywhere catalogue is small really small.

Again my issue is this strategy is far far to ahead to work. They need to make sure they have a stable brand image and they don’t.

Nothing they have is a compelling reason for a casual to invest in Xbox.

Internet and cloud streaming sucks
Third parties aren’t all up to speed
Play anywhere library is small
GP maybe be cheap but if it takes months to completely a game; it’s pointless.

Regardless of plastic boxes, why use the ecosystem? I’d rather just buy a steamdeck and be done with it alll.

That’s the point.

And please don’t give me that PC will never be mainstream as a counter because Xbox is taking itself out of stores so it’s becoming less and less mainstream. All casuals see now are the grey Gamepass cards. Really great marketing there.

@mousieone Well the one thing that's certain is Microsoft is all about digital, streaming, cloud. Yeah they say they care about physical. They don't. They haven't since the matrick debacle, and that's ok that's their thing. So yeah sucky Internet is definitely an issue with them. Then again Nintendo really is the last place you can get away with bad Internet and even that's kind of... Iffy. Wonder how switch 2 fares.

That's also interesting about some companies and streaming. I hadn't heard that about square. That's actually just weird imo. IDK what they have to gain from that very very strange. And annoying.

Honestly though can't disagree on steam deck. I really wanted Steambox to happen or Xbox to become Steambox like. And maybe that will all happen. I don't like walled gardens but I couldn't stand pc anymore. Or the costs. That's why I bailed to begin with!

They need steam box because cool as deck is I don't want an expensive handheld that still looks sucky on the big screen and she I'm tired of disposable battery powered self destructive money eating fotm tech toys 😠

@NEStalgia yeah a lot of people don’t realize that about third parties companies but some of them their cloud rights are tied up elsewhere think like ABK. The same true for a lot of companies. Pretty sure Capcom doesn’t have steaming either… Atlus/Sega rights are clear so they are Play Anywhere and cloud. I think that’s why MS doubled downed on Sega. Clean rights.

Yes if MS did a handheld if buy it. If it’s traditional console no. I bought an Ally because Best Buy was selling them cheap and honestly it’s been pretty easy to use.

Look I get the strategy but as I said MS is jumping the gun here (again). They need to fix the brand image before the don the ecosystem swap. But sending games to other platforms doesn’t fix the brand.

MS has a whole lack of marketing. Their Achilles heel. And until they fix that; it will haunt them.

@mousieone Technically I'm not sure "cloud" is itself the total future, even ms in the abk trials said it's pretty insignificant use currently but I do think it'll steadily grow. And I think it'll end up like TV unfortunately. But companies refusing to do streaming at all, I can't figure out their angle. Square will be square though. I wouldn't doubt the reason is they're planning their own streaming service instead. If any company is less focused and steady than ms it's square.

I still think the big industry push, not just Ms, is going to be about moving gaming into phone/tablet. Simply because that's where most of the money is, most of the market is, most of the kiddies were raised on. Ms is already doing it, Nintendo literally sells a 2011 Android tablet for $300, and Sony well you just watch the movie version of the game on your phone anyway.

How cheap was the Ally? Was it a "sorry we blew it" clearance or a normal promo sale? It's an interesting device but not for anywhere near the asking price.

I think xbt real problem remains that they're Microsoft. Phil has a strategy. I think Sarah is on that strategy. But the outlook guys keep overriding them. We heard whatsherface the VP at the hearing basically say directly corporate is pushing on profits for xb. Well there's the problem. Short term gains seeking won't help build a media empire. Ms gaming/Xb REALLY needs to be spun off.

Heh, I remember when Microsoft was considered better at marketing than tech. The only reason were not using OS/2 Warp and Solaris today is because of MS marketing, not because the "did you reboot the machine?" Os is good. But... Then again the genius marketing campaign in '95 was nothing more than throwing so much money at the rolling Stones they broke their no commercials policy and let ms play the licensed "start me up" track.

Maybe they should just license from Rick Astley and solve the console wars.

@NEStalgia that’s the thing the Ms execs don’t understand gaming and any change takes time . Xbox execs get that but money talks.

The entry level ally was 399 which is a sweet spot. 499 is too high but 399, yeah I can splurge

Tablet might be the way but cloud isn’t with the us internet so unstable. I hope the rumored handheld that uses cloud when docked is real. That sounds so impressive.

@mousieone Yeah that's the one consistent thing we've seen for years. I think Xbox and Xbox leadership has a really solid strategy in place. And the whole point of MS handing xb to Phil was supposed to be to remove it from under the thumb of Windows division and let it thrive, instead, corporate suits who know nothing of games/entertainment business, and frankly I suspect also know little of OS's cloud, laptops, DB, or productivity suites or really anything outside Excel and Outlook where they permanently live in userspace, keep doing exactly what happened under Windows and overriding Xbox leadership and telling them how to operate. We all suspected it with teh Gold debacle. No chance Phil woke up one day and said "Know what? Let's just double sub prices on a random weekday with no notice, that'll be the strategy now!" It was finally clear when I think it was an Amy so and so the big wig at the top that said they're pushing on making "Xbox" profitability consistent with other MS divisions. What makes corporate think an entertainment division in a competitive space would suddenly be as profitable as a monopoly operating system even the Chinese government has no choice but to buy (or pirate?)

They only reason these people fund Xbox at all is because they think Monkey Ball has something to do with their strategy of Ai, Ai, Ai, Ai, Ai.

I don't know how a division tells a trillion dollar company to go do something with themselves, but they really need to do that. Xbox would go through some rough patches but it really would be better spun off. As it is, I think MS corp sees gaming as valuable for mobile and for training AI and datamining human behavior. I think Xbox leadership has a better plan than current Nintendo and Sony leadership, but corporate won't let them execute it consistently, constantly trying to pull short term gains out of it instead to make investors swoon.

I guess 399 isn't bad. It's still high for something that's SO disposable. That's the thing that gets me with PC is everything is obsolete before you buy it.

I never trust hardware rumors these days. If we trusted hardware rumors, we'd be 5 years into Switch Pro, we'd have a smaller more powerful PS5 pro with a detachable disc drive, and an Xbox handheld. We've learned the "insiders" are inside their own rears. They know nothing. They hear of obsolete internal plans that were abandoned. They connect supply chain dots so 2+2=1734. At this point I question whether rumors of a new Nintendo console are true. They might be planning to Sell the current Switch forever. Why not, Xbox will put all their games on it anyway. But that tablet idea sounds like an ideal Switch 2 competitor if it's real. Rumor could also just be for actual Switch 2.

@NEStalgia Well I hope the rumors are true. I don’t trust them. Yeah I guess it’s “Disposable”, but I think it will suit my needs for now should I need it. I can play P3RE on the go then boot up the Xbox for the full deal. Which is where I see the strategy. I do see it because I use it.

I just think that there are too many hands in the cookie jar and not enough patience. Also this rumored looming All Digital Series X is all wrong. I know the majority of users are buying digital, but the S isn’t doing so hot right now. It’s a good box, but like no disc drive. Apparently, they can’t see that as an issue. People may buy all digital but they like having options. Anything less than options, isn’t real. Pity the Xbox team can’t see that.

@mousieone I don't trust any of the industry rumors anymore. This whole generation has been nothing but rumors all the time and few of them ever actually seem be be true. In hardware is mostly cancelled projects and just in case r&d projects that end up as "insider knowledge" rumors.

But I also hope it's true, I have the same use case in mind, that's how I use my S and Logitech G cloud currently except it's wonkier then a real handheld.

It's the MS mo. And Google for that matter. Direction change on a whim based on projections and leadership soup.

Idk if digital is wrong or not depending on price. If their REALLY pushing the subs as a value thing they could subside hardware heavily, make digital reeealy appealing then maybe it's not wrong.. or if it's replacing S (?) I'm sure I'm not the only one that hasn't stuck anything in my disc drives since 2018. If it saves enough money I could make a compelling platform argument. But I don't trust they'll position it or promote it properly and it'll end up forgotten and underutilized

@NEStalgia Well you and me both. I’m also really annoyed at how some insiders treated this whole Xbox multiplat thing. I am literally never trusting Tom Warren again. He created chaos and then walked it back. Not that he was the only one, but the worse one in my opinion.

I don’t know where things are going but I’m not going to be with my head in the sand. I just can’t do it.

And this old Dino still buys physical games here and there.

@mousieone "insiders" lol. The only thing they're inside is their own rear ends. Not just Warren and Xbox. The insiders that predicted switch pro every year since 1989 and are still right. The PS5 pro will happen real soon too!

Worse than the insiders though is the press. Every games outlet has 60% content as rumor stoking and pages of comments arguing about things that aren't likely even real. Tweets are not news. The news just hasn't figured that out yet.

The only real leak there was was series s and all the insiders missed it.

I know where it's all going but it's too depressing to talk about

Haha, I swore that they'd have to pry physical games from my cold dead hands..... And then I got gigabit and got too tired of finding a game on the bottom of a pile precariously balanced and watching the whole thing crash down.... So...I finally went all digital a few years ago. At first except switch but with vouchers I switched there too.

I seriously have towers of games going back to the good old days.... At some point you're past being able to fit more, and I'm not going to get rid of ye olde og cartridges to add "download required, day 1 patch" empty boxes to that stack. Us dinos can't be fooled by that trick

@NEStalgia and again I say mobile can’t be the way https://mobilegamer.biz/inside-apple-arcade-axed-games-declining-payouts-disillusioned-studios-and-an-uncertain-future/

Console and PC are currently the only growth markets. Mobile gamers aren’t the answer.

@mousieone Don't tell MS that. They just bought ABK for $70b almost entirely for their mobile footprint.

That article isn't really about a decline in mobile gaming, it's about the opaque all of the Apple hegemony mysteriously changing terms and payouts without warning or reason. I.E. Apple's not paying devs in Arcade (the Apple version of Game Pass) properly and refuses to tell anyone why. Maybe it's less subscribers or pay through but nobody knows and it may just be Apple being Apple.

The problem with mobile, though, isn't so much that mobile isn't the big money. It's that only a handful of games make the money, everything else languishes, on mobile, and it's SO MUCH MONEY.

The broader problem is console and PC have moved to copying mobile to try to get those same business models going where only the top 12 survive and nothing else matters, with some of the biggest acts in both (Fortnite, Minecraft, Genshin) being a crossover. I think that multi-screen crossover mobile+console+pc thing is where all the companies are going to rush because that's where the biggest money's gone.

I don't think console is much of a growth market at all. It's basically stagnated for 35 years. A little growth here and there, an anomaly with Wii. But tellingly, console has spread into MANY more markets in the world, but retained similar sales totals. Meaning in primary markets the console base has SHRUNK since the 90's. They now have to sell in 80 countries to get the total install base they used to get from basically 10.

Mobile growth is by nature the bulk of the market, but it's still largely a different market. That leaves PC. Is PC a growth market? And is it a growth market for all of gaming, or for select handfuls of select multiplayer games and low-requirement mobile-esque titles? I question a bit where the growth in PC comes from. I very much got the impression most PC growth was an Asia/"Developing world" sort of growth market for the past 15+ years more than any meaningful growth in the West.

That leaves the problem: There's too much game supply, too little game demand, and games consume ever more time per title, in an install market that doesn't actually seem to grow all that much between (human) generations. The whole games industry doesn't really seem to be a market growth proposition. It seems mostly to be a REVENUE growth proposition of milking existing customers dry.

To Phil's credit he explicitly called that out in the podcast, and is openly addressing that problem. Unfortunately his solution is imaginary "growth" in the market that I don't think there's room for.

Reminds me of that Marx guy that correctly called out all the problems very accurately with one doomed economic system, then proposed fixing it by giving all the resources to a few people to allocate fairly.

I kinda expect similar results in gaming.

@NEStalgia discord me