It's fair to say last week's launch of Redfall on Xbox Game Pass didn't go quite the way anyone had hoped it would, and therefore there was a lot of negativity floating around the various Xbox communities following the game's release.
Something that particularly shocked a Senior 2D Artist on Redfall, however, was the "mean spirited" feedback from their peers, friends, and/or colleagues. Here's what Arkane dev Sadie Boyd had to say about the situation:
Obviously we totally sympathise with Sadie here, and it's definitely disheartening to learn that the mixed response to the game's launch was apparently being "openly mocked" by her own peers.
She went on to state that although she's trying to keep positive, it's not always easy:
"I try to keep things positive, I really do. But I am human, I have feelings."
"Seeing people I looked up to saying things like ‘They deserved this’ ‘Now their resumes are tainted lol’ ‘what f**king idiots’ etc have, truthfully, been the only things to bother me."
These couple of tweets have already racked up around 1.7 million views between them, so they've certainly made a big impact over the past few days (as well as making headlines!). Here's hoping Sadie and her team will have the last laugh in the future, with Redfall hopefully set to improve significantly over the next few months and beyond.
How are you getting on with Redfall at the moment? Tell us down in the comments section below.
Comments 86
Wait, what industry peers are mocking them like this?
releasing buggy games never helps
the game is average but releasing it in the state its in never helps a games reputation.
Someone needs to come out and take the blame for making the call to release when it did. The devs themselves probably weren't happy with it releasing as it did but someone must have made the call knowing there would be backlash.
Redfall is honestly one of the worst games I have played in 30 years. I struggle to think of a game that has left me that shocked with the lack of quality and depth.
It is currently fundamentally broken and what makes this worse is that it is meant to be a "next gen" game. It looks like an early Xbox one indie game I could have played a decade a go, but with worse AI.
Abuse or laughing at someone's sadness or suffering is never acceptable and I am surprised/sad to hear Xbox colleagues or gaming industry peers would be like that.
The harsh criticism was warranted on a game wide level and the studio leads and management team should be held accountable for a product which is borderline theft for whoever purchased it.
P.S: I am happy for whoever enjoyed it but also understand that other people had a very bad experience which is also valid.
@Darylb88 30 years??! 😂 Did you ever play Outpost by Sierra Online (e.g.)? I don‘t think so.
What did I just read?
Sure you might have spent $70 on a crappy game I made - but I had to read a couple mean comments online and therefore, am the victim. Prostrate yourself before my victimhood!
@Kevw2006 Idt anybody in charge of the release date "knew" there would be backlash. Modern games are constantly coming out unfinished & people for years seem happy with preordering even though there's a really good chance there will be bugs before at least an update or two. If someone knew it was gonna be this bad for them they wouldn't have done this. Redfall is always going to have a negative connotation to it & an early release is certainly to blame (in my opinion), even the Spence himself came out about how disappointed he was. It's one of the lowest reviewed AAA releases in the last 5 years, maybe 10 honestly.
She feels "sad, confused, and disappointed." Honestly, being an adult getting criticized for poor work isn't new or novel... it's not fun, but you can't let your life be run by some industry colleagues attacking bad quality output. If they were making threats, saying vile things about you or your family, that's one thing. But I'm sorry, Redfall is a mess, and not just in a technical sense... technical hitches can be patched. The game had a lot of hype, and it's fundamentally not very good, glitches aside. Arkane has made some great games, and now it has a stumble. Move forward and make something better next time.
I find it hard to feel any sympathy. They released Redfall in an absolute mess and it’s become somewhat of a laughingstock. Sometimes you need to take failure on the chin, pick yourself back up and do better next time. Stay off Twitter portraying yourself as a victim and do the work.
@Kevw2006
The devs themselves probably weren't happy with it releasing as it did but someone must have made the call knowing there would be backlash
There is backlash and then there is the backlash aimed at Redfall. I don't think I've seen anything as vicious aimed at a game before, it was pretty much borderline, irrationally charged tirade after tirade.
Yes the game has its issues and big ones at that but I'm still not sure the nature of the backlash was fully justified.
I wish the devs well and hope they'll recover.
This is sad, and I'd be very interested to know who in the industry decided this was a cool thing to do.
Feedback on how/why the game is bad/not great (anecdotally; I haven't played it) is one thing, but belittling and mocking your peers in what is by all accounts an extremely demanding industry is a d*ck move, sorry.
And, ultimately, the buck stops with Phil Spencer here, not the rank and file devs who are just trying to do the best job they can and have no real say about how well a game ships.
@Atlis54 100% true. If I turned in work this bad at my company, I'd be lucky to keep my job at all. Again, not excusing anything over the top, but the postings she's complaining about sound like they are targeted strictly at what a dumpster fire the game is, not attacking anyone personally (which shouldn't be tolerated).
I agree, humans can be horrible. It's one thing posting opinions about the game, but when the comments are personal and rude, then that for me is going to far.
Removed - inappropriate
@Mingus Mercifully not! but Tecmo World Cup might have had slightly worse AI
First time making videogames?
I mean, that's business. Sony crapped all over Microsoft after the Xbox One reveal, Microsoft crapped on Sony when the PS3 price was revealed to be so high, Sony crapped on Sega after the Saturn reveal, and so on and so on.
If you screw up, you're gonna get roasted. Don't like it? Learn from it, thats what failing is about.
She's human, she should have noticed the many problems with the game before releasing it.
There's an enormous amount of negativity surrounding xbox right now. As disappointed as we are about the launch of Redfall, it sucks that people are behaving this way. I'll say again, if Forza and Starfield are good, this will have been a pretty damn good year overall.
@Sol4ris I don't tend to look at such things on Twitter and other places so have missed some of the more vicious comments that had been made. My post was largely in reference to the comments I've seen on this site, which I think will be some of the more reserved comments.
Some of the backlash has been warranted as devs/publishers need to be aware that people won't accept sub standard games being released, but personal attacks on the devs themselves is never acceptable and sadly is becoming all too common. Hopefully this doesn't lead to anyone deciding that it isn't worth being in game development anymore.
Funny thing is, everybody is blaming the gaming public.
Yet the tweet is talking about colleagues mocking it. Yet no mention of that.
Sadly if a game releases in the state Redfall did then people will be critical because you are expecting people to cough upto £100 for some editions.
If you bought any other product in this state guess what it would be criticised. That’s just life.
Someone remind Arkane that when you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
@Darylb88 - Space Ace on the super Nintendo is far worse lol but I get the sentiment.
Gutted when I picked it up as a kid, flashy box art claimed another young victim.
This is probably the reason the game is so bad. If they've never experienced criticism then any turd will do. Not sure which is worse between this and the other guy being proud redfall. If you make something awful people are going to let you know.
Removed - trolling/baiting; user is banned
Removed - discussing moderation; user is banned
I’ve no sympathy for the moron that decided to launch an incomplete Redfall but every sympathy for Arcane and it’s staff who must have been pushed to release this before it was finished. I said in an earlier post that the negative feedback would hurt the staff at the studio and this proves the point.
Microsoft needs to get a better grip of its studios and value the talent it has at its disposal. Rushing out games that are half-baked just to fill a hole in its release schedule isn’t good enough.
Hopefully reaction and opinion will change as the game gets patched and (hopefully) becomes the game that the studio envisaged.
I am enjoying every moment playing Redfall. They will patch up areas that are not polished. And yes, they will patch the 60 fps for the try hard eagle eye cyborgs.
The hate this game is getting is ridiculous and only going on cause it's the cool and hip thing to do right now.
@NEStalgia I also wondered this, I’m assuming what she is talking about is not public? I haven’t seen anything like that.
The devs certainly didn’t deserve to get flack like that. I am honest to say I have not seen that kind of negativity written anywhere, must be on private conversations or whatever… but the fact is that they’ll get flack from this for a while, the game tanked monumentally, so some flack is to be expected. That said, it is hard for me to understand that this is “the only thing that bothers her”. I hope that’s not literally true, because there’s a whole bunch of reasons for them to lose sleep over… however, I hope things will look up for them devs and us players with patches that will make this game decent.
Removed - discussing moderation; user is banned
@Sakisa Hey there, just wanted to clarify here.
Your original post was in solidarity which I of course agree with.
However, the wording used toward other users on the site was unnecessary, which is why it was removed, not because of your opinion on the situation.
If you wish to discuss this further please feel free to contact us directly here: https://www.purexbox.com/contact
You tried to charge 70 for this rushed unfinished crap what do you expect ? Grow up we all get reviewed at jobs we work and guess what if we don’t perform you get a warning then cut
@Moonglow there’s trying something new and failing and then there’s Redfall, which i would also argue is painfully unoriginal in its own right.
@DreamlandGem I'm a disrepectful guy to disprespectful users. I don't see why I need to extend courtesy to the people that are willing to sling barbs and insults to someone just because they worked on a game that they didn't consider good. and not even the aspects of the game that swayed them.
What a joke. Protect the commentor's feefee's but not the game developer you're even making the article for.
I can understand this. I’ve mostly steered clear of the Redfall discussion because it became an absolute dogpile.
What a surprise. People acting like jerks online.
Funny that same people who destroy devs over failed innovation are the ones who later complain about games being "more of the same".
That kind of behavior is the reason why lots of devs play safe and release countless remasters and remakes, because innovation is punished by players with mocking and disrespect, and that coming from people that doesn't even have the decency to play the damn game before commenting and then go on twitter bash the developers because they "read a review" or "saw a video" and that is enough for them to feel entitled to it. Gaming community is currently full of sick people.
An adult Tweeting this out is bizarre. Get a grip!
Removed - flaming/arguing; user is banned
@Sakisa You are the only person I see on this entire thread that is seemingly getting their feefees hurt.
@Fenbops Have you played it much or just piling on based on what you've read?
What is sad with Redfall is that they released the game in an unfinished state, and now almost everyone are frustrated, quite sure the devs didn't want to release it this way but pressure from Microsoft, gamers, not another delay forced them to do it. I hope they can fix the situation but the damage is done.
@GuyinPA75 I'm sure a lot of people piling on haven't even played the game much, if at all. It's definitely got issue, but people go way overboard.
I think a lot of comments here are missing that the dev is tweeting about OTHER DEVS saying those things, not the generic Internet comments.
@Sol4ris cyberpunk, forspoken, and balan all received similarly viscous backlash.
@GuyinPA75 enjoyment is subjective. Quality is not. All of you that enjoy the game, that’s great. Good for you. You’re getting your monies worth. All of that enjoyment doesn’t change the fact that the AI is completely broken, the game itself unfinished/missing features. And even if those were fixed you’re still left with a repetitive gameplay loop, dated visuals, a loot system that feels tacked on, npcs without personality, and an online co op game without matchmaking… that I believe still forces a requirement of gold to play sp? (Though can’t confirm)
Ironically the backlash is having more people trying it for themselves right now out of curiosity to the point where MS will probably end up claiming it a success
@NEStalgia yep. And you’d hope competition between studios would encourage them to want to do better next time…
@eduscxbox “Funny that same people who destroy devs over failed innovation are the ones who later complain about games being "more of the same".
Fair point, but tell me what part of Redfall is innovative? That doesn’t apply here.
@NEStalgia Yeah a lot of people are missing that point.
@Mitwee I’m piling.
@Bleachedsmiles Repetitive game play loop? Please name a game that not have one?
Not pooping on you. Just saying really be hard pressed name one.
@FatalBubbles exactly its other devs. Who would talk about resumes at our level? Also she said people she looked up to.
I think she gets “gamers” will make comments on social media. Industry people doing this to them is ridiculous.
@Fenbops I think the game theme brought innovation enough on its own. With a bunch of games on that style always themed around Zombies, having a game use another type of enemy feels refreshing. Also, when I talk about innovation I'm including the ability of a studio to risk creating something different from what they usually do, adventuring into creating new experiences, I value that.
@mousieone Just seems weird all around to me. Other developers are actively rooting for people to fail and are saying this to them?
Is this like internal MS chats or how does one see that other devs are saying this?
@FatalBubbles well without context it’s hard to know who this is. Is this happening at a bar over drinks.
It sounds like other Bethesda devs. And it could disgruntled fez employees. But it really doesn’t excuse it if it’s devs to other devs.
It sucks that happened to her and her team. People should build each other up not tear each other down.
@mousieone I’m not trying to excuse the behavior. I’m just trying to understand how the comments are getting around.
Sorry but LOL. Make a better product then. Tired of half baked and unplayable crap being released.
@FatalBubbles well AustinTexas not Lyon. Texas is pretty big even if it wasn’t internal.
Not that Lyon is small. But just that there a number of studies there.
@mousieone If Bethesda is rooting against Bethesda then oh boy. That work culture sounds lovely.
I guess what bugs me the most is redfall isn't the dumpster fire people make it out to be. It's not the greatest game ever sure, but it's definitely fun. Frame rates never bothered me to begin with. I have seen a couple minor bugs with enemies but nothing game breaking.
It's one thing for us gamers to point and laugh at these companies for their mistakes, but I have to agree with her here. Seeing fellow professionals of hers mocking and poking fun is down right messed up. All class and morals have gone out the window as of late. And it's sad to see. It's not just gaming.
@FatalBubbles again Texas has a bunch of studios not related to Bethesda.
Airship Sybdicate
iron Galaxy
Aspyr
Bluepoint
Certain Affinity
Cyrtek
Devolvet Digital
And this are just the ones in Austin and noy all of the ones in Austin. I stopped at D.
Like there are way more. This could have been over drinks or lunch.
@mousieone @FatalBubbles What's weirdest about it is, especially if it's other MS employees....like....what are the 343 folks laughing it up over Redfall's launch?! The FO76 guys? Other Arkane studio guys that did Dishonored 2.... ? I mean the only ones within MS I can think of that even have room to criticize and mock anyone else at all would be Tango, most of which doesn't even know English, and Turn10/Playground which I doubt Arkane even has contact with. I doubt anyone at "SWKoTR2 trainwreck" and "like 3 years in beta Grounded" Obsidian would have such a short memory to ridicule like that. If it's outside MS...I mean surely it's not Ubisoft and Battlefield 2027 or later EA has much room to prod. Did Miyamoto tweet them to tell them their game is bad forever? It's just weeird.
id Maybe. Are they still in Texas? I know modern id isn't the same as classic id, but the "everyone gets a Lamborghini" culture of old-era Carmack-based id strikes me as that type of outfit.
@Wheatly I love Horizon, but if you're a dev being criticized on your side quest writing by Horizon devs, you should really question what you've been doing....
But yeah, you really don't expect others in the industry who have no doubt been on the receiving end of having launched a lemon, to be talking like that about any game.
@GuyinPA75 well generally, even with previous Arkane games, you dont really see everything the game potentially has to offer within the first mission. Not every mission in dishonored was a fetch quest to progress the story for example. Where as the structure of this game is say it’s been 90% fetch quest so far after about 8 or so hours…often going back and fourth to the same places for different side missions…that are also fetch quests
lets see you release a average game before you add the bugs in which means the game is kinda crap, not only that there is no reason this game couldnt have had 60fps its no where near graphically intense enough to justify a stuttering 30fps that you have to change camera settings to feel better....
@FatalBubbles @NEStalgia againI don’t think that’s what matters here. She clearly called out other devs which I can’t see you doing unless it happened.
Internet commenters aside.
@mousieone Oh surely it happened, I just can't fathom the context, who, or if other MS/Bethesda studios, what genius decided that shooting canons inside their glass house was a good idea.
OK. The release state of the game was crap. We know that. They know that. But to personally attack people about it is just not cool. Every AAA game that releases is awful. We all know that and expect it. So whether it's Redfall or Cyberpunk, it doesn't matter, they release, they suck. We all KNOW the pattern.
On a side note, I don't know how old Strange Brigade is, but for a bit of Co op fun, it's a good 'other option'. It's older you see, so it works, plays well, and has stuff to do. I can't wait for a year after Starfield releases.... Its going to be great, and cheaper once they fix it. Yeah, I'm assuming it's going to release in a mess.... Why ever would I do that? Oh yeah, it's because that's what happens now. Fallout 3 and 4 still have bugs.... But they are still better than most games on day one nowadays. That's just how it is.
@LX_FENIX You shouldn't be using what big name faceless company do to each other as an example. Cause I'm pretty sure the actual employees of each company don't feel the same way. Also, what she is talking about doesn't sound like roasting. It sounds like her peers are making actual hurtful toxic comments.
In all honesty the game is terrible. It lacks in many areas. It is boring to say the least . Hardly any enemies at all, the streets are barren like an elderly lady's womb, the vampires are basically only in dens which are simple and lacklustre, occasionally you find them about but far and few.
The stability of the game is poor. The graphics are poor. The overall gameplay is poor.
The release of this game is an embarrassment. Instead of complaining about hurt feelings over some hurtful but realistic reviews, they should take accountability for releasing such a disappointing, broken product. It just seems lazy unfinished and honestly borderline theft for whomever purchased it. Cry less and put out finished games, problem solved. =)
@FatalBubbles @NEStalgia well either way. I’m surprised something like this happened whether it’s internal or not. It’s so awful. Like sure there is social media stuff but that’s not the same thing.
How about were not gonna feel bad for the Developers who release a shyt broken game too us. Sorry sad dev , but you deserve it. You have put out one of the worst big budget games of all time...at full price. You can wipe your tears with my 70$.
Boo....frickin....hoo. RELEASE A DECENT GAME AND YOU WONT GET GRIEF!....heavens, what did they expect, a pat on the back?
All those in the comments blaming the devs for the disaster release of Redfall like it's the devs who decide when to release games and not the shareholders.
@BobCoffee A smaller project like Pentament would be ideal. Something they can release perfect but wont take them six years but will restore confidence in both themselves and their output.
Yikes the conversation around this game has become an absolute dumpster fire. The devs aren't happy. The players aren't happy. The publisher isn't happy. Heck even the dev's peers aren't happy.
I don't really know what to say. Just... what a mess.
To a certain degree, I do think Arkane and Redfall in particular have been 'harshly' treated compared to their 'peers'. The majority of that is perhaps due to them 'changing' from a 3rd Party, somewhat 'niche' developer to a 'first party' Studio and expected to deliver a Flawless game that is a 'must-play' for everyone. As disappointing as Redfall is, I think its unacceptable to kick the team when they are 'down'.
As DF discussed, Redfall isn't technically worse than numerous other games released in recent times - Gotham Knights, Jedi Survivor etc. These are 'legacy' games built primarily for 'last' gen systems, using 'last' gen game engines not really 'ideal' for the type of game they are making - hence 'poor' performance.
It is a 'mess' but I think combined with the '1st Party' expectation and the added scrutiny that comes with that, especially after such a 'long' time since MS released a new 'AAA' game on Console, its been much more 'harshly' criticised compared to its 'peers'.
That being said, I only hope they (and MS) learn from this, that they are 'better' off 'delaying' than releasing games unfinished. MS needs to be a bit more 'hands on', a bit more 'in the loop' and should expect Devs to be too close to their 'project' to be as 'objective' - that doesn't mean 'taking over', it just means being around a bit more, check on the status and be prepared to offer more support etc as/when required to ensure they don't let their Studio's get into this situation again, be able to objectively suggest 'changes' and offer the 'support' to make them happen. Even simple things like switching out those 'billboard' style cut-scenes that look more like 'place holders' in a AAA game - acceptable in a low budget game - may of helped without fundamentally changing the 'creative' aspect, that core concept, the Studios 'vision'. It helps them 'realise' that vision in a 'better' way.
As they said, Redfall was 'deep' into development - as we know, they cancelled any further 'development' for Playstation when they took over just 2yrs ago. This was in development over 5yrs so most of the game and its structure was in place and obviously, Zenimax were the ones that 'green lit' or demanded they made this game (an open-world, character based MP game to potentially sell MTX, DLC etc) - much like they probably ordered Bethesda to make Fallout 76 or MachineGames to make Wolfenstein: Youngblood. Its not 'really' a MS game, more an MS inherited problem that they didn't really 'sort out'.
This is the problem with people today. They live by their feelings. It's about how they feel at the moment, not anyone else. Only caring about your own feelings and no one else. Feelings are never right. They are lies. Use your head not your feelings. They will deceive you and will discourage. Life lesson.
Here's a life lesson - when a game sucks, it gets ridicule. When a game is good, it gets less ridicule. Suck less and be better. Problem solved.
If the games rubbish it's rubbish it's that simple there woudnt have been any of this if the game was good but personally attacking people is bullying and its wrong and shouldn't happen full stop
Cry me a river...
The game sucked and not only underperformed it underdelivered, to me it looks like a sympathy post. Well...then use to that to motivate you and your team to make the game better, instead of going on internet to get sympathy likes.
It's impossible to tell who on the team is good at their job and who is bad at their job from the outside. But you can't blame any of the individual employees anyway. Even the ones who suck, because maybe they already know they suck, and they still got paid. Well done! If you're a terrible programmer/artist/whatever, and you work at Arkane, and you got paid to do terrible work on this game, good on you for getting yours! If you worked overtime and busted your ass for your employer for nothing in return because of "passion", then you're an idiot. If you're highly skilled but you just got saddled with a bad project due to no fault of your own, no problem, because you still got paid right and that's why we work. Ultimately even if a company has bad workers you blame the company, not the workers. They hired them and kept them.
It feels like a last gen console release. I guess I'm not up in arms because it's on GP and I'm not out any money. I think the price increase on a game churned out quickly is the real complaint. It was sold as a triple-A title and it's clearly not. People feel cheated.
@Darylb88 the game is not fundamentally broken. Seriously, did you even play it? It's buggy for sure but nowhere near as many bugs as No Man's Sky or Cyberpunk when they were released. And that's jus two recent games. NMS was virtually unplayable due to several game breaking bugs.
That 2d art was absolutely horrible.
@BobCoffee what are you talking about? This isn't some indie company.
@Wheatly She is a game dev, so she likely follows a ton of people in the industry that we are unaware of. Friends, co-workers (now and former), along with others. Sounds like some of those (or people on their feeds) were trashing the game/release state.
@Moby Yes I played it for several hours and I stand by my comment that is is currently fundamentally broken. It goes way beyond bugs. The core loop of the game is structured around the AI and the AI is broken right now. To top it off I had 2 crashes back to the dashboard in 2 hours. If you enjoyed the game I am glad.
@Darylb88 I guess since I finished it today, including all the side missions that was a fluke? 🤣
Fundamentally broken....🙄🙄🙄
Congrats on finishing it.
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...