Topic: The Xbox Game Pass Thread

@Cleofa717 To be honest, I doubt anyone here can answer that question. Only MS themselves would know and they probably wouldn't tell you its stopping. I would say its very likely it will still be a 'promotional' thing in September - just a couple of months from now as they have 'just' re-introduced it so I would expect it to remain for more than a month or two with at least a 'month' notification from them when they decide to cancel or change any promotions.

Its up to you of course but as we can't really predict the future, you either take advantage of the deals when they are around or wait and see what deals are in place when it 'suits' you to buy into 'Xbox'.

@themightyant @PsBoxSwitchOwner I must admit that the 'majority' of 'new' releases added into Game Pass don't appeal to me that much. I am not that big into indies - even if they are Award Winning, Game of the Year games - like Vampire Survivors for example. However, with games also going up in Price, I disagree about the 'Value'.

At most, GPU costs £12 a month or £144 over the course of a year but a AAA game costs £70. Yes you can get it 'cheaper' if you shop around and can buy 'Physical', but if you want to play Forza and Starfield, that's £140 on its own, throw in maybe Hifi Rush or even the 3rd Party games like High on Life, Plague Tale, MLB or whatever - let alone any EA Access titles and its saved money. When the service started, you got perhaps a few more '3rd' party games and the usual Gears, Halo, Forzas but those games were also costing 'less'.

You could say that the 'decline' in games are also related to external circumstances. 2022 was a 'lean' year as 'big' games were delayed - what with Pandemic working conditions, 'next' gen Hardware on the market etc adding to the issues. Another aspect of course could be that MS invested in Buying Studio's and IP's to build up Game Pass instead of spending money to get 3rd Party games into their service as 'long' term, its better use of their money so maybe 'fewer' big 3rd Party games too - especially Single Player games. Multi-player may well benefit from 'Game Pass', fill lobbies etc and no doubt have MTX, DLC etc as well to sell!

@Cleofa717 To be honest, I doubt anyone here can answer that question. Only MS themselves would know and they probably wouldn't tell you its stopping. I would say its very likely it will still be a 'promotional' thing in September - just a couple of months from now as they have 'just' re-introduced it so I would expect it to remain for more than a month or two with at least a 'month' notification from them when they decide to cancel or change any promotions.

Its up to you of course but as we can't really predict the future, you either take advantage of the deals when they are around or wait and see what deals are in place when it 'suits' you to buy into 'Xbox'.

@themightyant @PsBoxSwitchOwner I must admit that the 'majority' of 'new' releases added into Game Pass don't appeal to me that much. I am not that big into indies - even if they are Award Winning, Game of the Year games - like Vampire Survivors for example. However, with games also going up in Price, I disagree about the 'Value'.

At most, GPU costs £12 a month or £144 over the course of a year but a AAA game costs £70. Yes you can get it 'cheaper' if you shop around and can buy 'Physical', but if you want to play Forza and Starfield, that's £140 on its own, throw in maybe Hifi Rush or even the 3rd Party games like High on Life, Plague Tale, MLB or whatever - let alone any EA Access titles and its saved money. When the service started, you got perhaps a few more '3rd' party games and the usual Gears, Halo, Forzas but those games were also costing 'less'.

You could say that the 'decline' in games are also related to external circumstances. 2022 was a 'lean' year as 'big' games were delayed - what with Pandemic working conditions, 'next' gen Hardware on the market etc adding to the issues. Another aspect of course could be that MS invested in Buying Studio's and IP's to build up Game Pass instead of spending money to get 3rd Party games into their service as 'long' term, its better use of their money so maybe 'fewer' big 3rd Party games too - especially Single Player games. Multi-player may well benefit from 'Game Pass', fill lobbies etc and no doubt have MTX, DLC etc as well to sell!

@BAMozzy I want to be clear I still think it offers good value, I didn't say otherwise. But what I did say is it offers REDUCED value - especially now 2 months on from my post that they have ALSO raised the cost - that is all true.

Less games + higher cost = less choice and less value. That doesn't suddenly make it bad, it's not a binary position, it's just LESS good than it was, and it was great.

I still think it is a good service, else I wouldn't stay subbed, but the reality is with less games added there is less choice, and less chance I want to play something INSTEAD of something I could buy or something on my backlog.

@themightyant What I meant is that with the Price of Games going up by 'more' than the cost of Game Pass, its still great value and perhaps 'better'. 3 AAA games now cost £210 for example so you save 'more' money than you would have a few years ago. Game Pass Ultimate has gone up a £1 a month, £12 a year so if you only find 3 AAA games a 'year' on the service that appeal, its gone up by £12 a year to play those, but if you bought them, it would cost an extra £30 a year.

Its all relative of course as Games are somewhat personal preference - but my point is that games have gone up 'more' than the price of Game Pass. It still costs about the same as 2 AAA games a year. The number of Games hasn't decreased in Game Pass - its 'new' releases may have dropped but that's more down to circumstance (I think) so you can still play as many games as you could before - its just that you have either caught up with all the 'older' games or maybe only interested in select 'few' games, but overall, you still have around the same number of games you 'could' play with more than £12 of 'games' being added every month - at least 1 is usually £70...

If you are that 'picky' about what games you want to 'play', not you specifically, then of course its value can be considered 'weaker' because the 'games' you specifically want aren't releasing on GP or this year, but that doesn't change the fact that the 'Value' of games in the Sub Service has significantly increased over the past few years as prices have gone up. The number of Games hasn't 'dropped' - it still has over 500 games on offer. Just adding 1 AAA game a Month has 'increased' its value as that game is now £70 to buy or just £12 for GPU - when last year or so, that would be a £60 game or £11 GPU a month. The 'value' of games in Game Pass shot up over the past few years too don't forget.

I do understand - PS+ Extra/Premium have 'no' appeal to me because I have played the Games I would have been interested in on their Service, but I can't deny that for the 'cost', the Value in the service is Great - it just doesn't suit me at the moment. Every month, they have 'new' additions that would cost me a LOT more to play (even though I choose not to play most as they 'don't' appeal) so its still great value.

All I was trying to say though is that the 'decline' in releases maybe related more to the way the Market is right now, the circumstances that has led us to this (Covid delays/issues, new Gen hardware adding more 'workloads' and increasing the time required to make games etc). Redfall, Starfield and Forza were 'expected' last year for example as was Stalker 2 but 'circumstances' dictated otherwise. There is '4' games that may have bumped up the releases for 2022 - not the 'drop' we saw.

If they 'reduced' the value of the Games in the service, say have dropped from £20k to £15k worth of games available every month, regardless of whether they are 'newly' added or remaining in the service and increased the price, I'd be concerned but as Game Prices have risen overall, its more likely that the 'Value' of games available every month has increased - with 'new' AAA games costing £70 now.

I don't want to play 'Fallout 4' on Game Pass today myself for example, but that game is still in Game Pass not adding 'value' to me personally because I can play it on Disc if I wanted. But maybe now I have my RoG Ally and a Gaming Laptop, GPU may let me play PC versions, use PC mods etc so that game suddenly has 'value' to me personally. Circumstances 'change' but what I was trying to say, maybe didn't say it very well, is that with the Prices of Games going up significantly MORE, the value of Games being offered has increased. Instead of maybe £300 worth being added every month, its now £400 worth, even with 'fewer' games because the prices have risen.

You don't have 'less' choice because overall, the number of games in Game Pass haven't dropped - they may stay a bit longer due to fewer releases replacing games, but you still have the same number of games to choose from and as 'newer' games are costing 'more' to buy, the value has 'increased' in general. As I said, you get at least 1 AAA game most months and each is now £10 more to buy but GPU has only gone up by £1. Buy 12 games a year, that's an extra £120 but Game Pass has only gone up an extra £12...

I appreciate that it may not suit everyone — especially those who are more selective, lack the time or have other options (like PS5 and/or a big Backlog). I know as I too don't utilise Game Pass to its fullest because the games 'added' don't appeal more than Games not in Game Pass or more than Games in my backlog. Only being able to play 1 game at a time means I pick the game I most want to play which may not be a newly added GP title but I can't deny that I still have the same 'number' of choices - it hasn't reduced.

@BAMozzy It's true the price of games is going up, I take your point here. Though only really AAA and Day 1. Indies and AAA in sales remain considerably cheaper than £70. Plus I cannot remember the last game that was £70 that I would have bought that was Day 1 on Game Pass... maybe Halo. Starfield for sure, but it's been a LONG time. I get that this is always going to be subjective but I feel the quality has gone down.

As for number of games in the service. It has dropped a little (from 550+ total to 515 today) but that's not really the point. PS now had 700+ games before it was removed but was a FAR worse service because it was a more static list. Number of total games doesn't really matter. What keeps these valuable to long time subscribers is a constantly evolving list NOT it being static.

That is where it has reduced in value, as my original post pointed out it's reduced from an average of 22+ games added a month in 2020 & 2021 to around 10 on average this year. That is less than half the number of games and choice.

But as you said it's subjective. Personally I still think it's a good service, I just don't think it's as great as it was.

@themightyant Relative value is likely to decrease the longer you spend in a Sub service. Unless the turnover of games is in excess of what you personally want to and can play, then the chances are that you will end up with just the 'new' games each month because you've played everything else you wanted.

Take games like Halo, FH5, Hi-Fi Rush, MSFS etc - all games added over the past couple of years, but if you've 'finished' them, they are no longer providing the 'same' value to you as someone signing up to Xbox and Game Pass for the first time today. You got to play those Day/Date of course - when they were '£60' (Digitally at release), they only moved to what has become the 'standard' £70 now with Redfall and of course Games releasing (like Starfield and Forza Motorsport). However, if you haven't 'finished' those games, you can still 'choose' to play them too via Game Pass so the Choice hasn't really 'diminished', its your personal circumstances that has changed.

Its the same with Netflix or with any other Sub service. If you only Sub to Disney+ for the Mandalorian, then once you have caught up with every episode, it has 'less' value to you personally but the value hasn't 'decreased' overall because those episodes are still available to watch (again), you still have access to hundreds and hundreds of hours worth of entertainment - whether you 'choose' to watch or 'cancel' until enough content appeals to you personally again.

Indies are often £20-£25 with AA games often coming in at £40+. A few years ago, you could pick up AAA games on Disc for £45 and indies were more like £10-£15. £500 would have bought you a LOT more games in 2018 than in 2023 so you get 'less' games for the same Cost if you choose to buy. With 'fewer' big games releasing too overall, as Studios take longer and longer over each game its perhaps not surprising that 'overall' fewer 'new' games have been added to GP on a monthly basis - especially the 'big' games. MS too may not be investing as much into '3rd Party' Publishers, getting them to put their releases into GP and choosing to invest in their OWN Published games (hence buying Studios/Publishers, seeking out Devs to Publish their games and ID@Xbox helping smaller studio's self Publish too). If ABK deal goes through, how many games could be added to GP? certainly bump the numbers up, bump the average for 2023 up...

@themightyant I think a lot of the problems Game Pass has faced more recently are down to Microsoft's laser focus on the Activision acquisition. Basically that if they didn't bother with the acquisition, the state of Game Pass would be a lot better than it currently is in.

What do you think is the best strategy growth for Game Pass? Spencer said gamepass had 3 billion in revenue with 22 subs back in 2022, and it was profitable. That's 1.5 billion revenue for every 10 million subscribers on average. I believe that Game Pass has now 4.5-5 billion in revenue with 34 million subs, which is great growth, but not enough to dominate the market. Game Pass needs to reach the 50-60 millions subs that will bring enough revenue(and profits) to support the quality content for the service.

My suggestions for game pass growth are the ones below:

1) They should bring all Activision Blizzard Games on game pass in 2024, which means all Call of Duty titles, Diablo games, WoW, Warcraft rts series, Diablo games, Overwatch, Starcraft etc should come on game pass. That would be a great boost for gamepass' content and will attract many gamers to the service.

2) They should invest more storydriven games. Sony studios are known for making quality AAA story-driven games which are incredible popular for the mainstream audience. Microsoft could bring more story driven games or aqcuire studios that make good single play games like Remedy Entertaiment, Don't Nod, Moon Studios, Eidos Montreal/Cystal Dynamics etc etc.

3) They should bring more third party games on gamepass. Spencer said that they spent almost 1 bilion in 2023 for third party content. They should keep bringing day one third party releases but they could invest more money to bring older titles permanently on game pass.

A good idea is to bring massive jrpg/anime games from japanese publishers in order to attract japanese consumers. They can bring games like Naruto Storm Series, One Piece games, Dragonball games(Fighterz, xenoverse, kakarot), Demon Slayer, Mega man collection series, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Tales of Arise/Scarlet Nexus, Devil May Cry, Street Fighter, Tekken etc etc. All these games are popular franchises by japanese publishers, which are old but great titles. Microsoft doesn't need to spend 200$ millions to bring a new AAA game to the service. They could spend 300$ millions to bring 30 japanese titles on game pass, which will add value to the service.

4) The final step, which is optional, is to keep the huge spending spree and aqcuire big publishers like Embracer or Ubisoft. Ubisoft is good choice because it's a legendary publisher with a lot of popular franchises like Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, Tom Clancy etc etc. Ubisoft is a huge publisher with 40 internal studios and 20.000 employees. If Microsoft buys Ubisoft, Xbox will become the bigger publisher of all time with over 80 studios and 40,000 manpower. By comparison, Sony has 23 studios and 7,000 employees, while Nintendo has 7,000-8,000 workforce along with partners.

Has there been any confirmation that Citizen Sleeper 2 will be coming to GP? I quite enjoyed the first one, and would like to play it on the same system.