Talking Point: Does Microsoft Have A '30FPS' Problem With Its Xbox Series X|S Output?

Because they have their studios making games for many devices on release date its that simple.

Give any of Xbox studios developers a series x game only no other distractions and you will get Avowed etc releasing at 60fps in series x.

Just like Sony and Nintendo developers get to focus on a single console and get the most out of that consoles.

I have said this from day one and that is also why we only get good but average Xbox studio games and not big quality AAA. To many devices to develop for.

Said it day one with Halo Infinite and guess what it’s come ducking true.

It’s Microsoft’s way of doing business and that is that.

Yes, it’s a ridiculous situation that they haven’t been able to get ONE game performing at 60 FPS at launch on the “world’s most powerful console”.

And it’s even worse they always try to excuse it with “30 FPS is more cinematic” or more recently “you don’t need 60 FPS” only to release a patch 6 months later enabling that performance, it lately feels as if the games we get “day one” on Game Pass Ultimate are beta versions and are patched when the PS5 version releases…

Is there a way I can easily filter out the stirring the pot for rage clicks articles here?

I get it is a "talking point" but I'd rather just the actual game news. Is there a filter function?

No. People have a whining problem.

Xbox is making a mistake to keep pushing for 30fps.

One of the best features of the Series X is its backwards compatibility that makes older games 60fps for the first time.

One of the worst features of the Series X is the developers decision to keep releasing 30fps games with not 60fps option.

I personally do not play 30fps games (barring Zelda). Some last gen games I only played this gen using the 60fps enhancements of Series X like FF15, AC:Origins etc.

I made the mistake of pre-purchasing Starfield and being thoroughly disappointed by the 30fps. Only now playing it properly since it got 60fps.

And to be honest, I do not understand what developers are talking about when they say they chose better graphics over frame rates because I cannot even see the graphics behind the shuddering blur of 30fps.

@IOI
Will be funnier when probably the PS5 Pro will definitely be the best place to play and power our dreams, with Xbox studio games.

But, we want to know how you feel about this topic. Is this wave of 30FPS Xbox games becoming an issue?

A quick glance at the number of comments generated every time you post an article about 30fps and Xbox first party within the same sentence, shows that there is an issue (you must be loving the engagement it generates 😉).

For me though, only FPS and driving games are a must 60fps, if a game is great I'll play it regardless of frame rate (as long as is not a complete slide show of course) 😁.

Non-issue at all as long as the game is stable.

@Kienda
Totally agree, it’s absolutely crazy and gives another reason not to buy an Xbox console.

Especially now with the games coming to PS5 maybe better optimised and with the PS5 Pro even better than that.

I think we should have a good old fashioned burning of Xbox consoles and get it over with, rather than the slow swindling gamers death approach Microsoft is taking with Xbox hardware.

I think this is already too much, it's creating controversy without any sense.

Xbox Series has a problem, of course it does, the same as PS5, and PS4 and XOne had, and the same as all consoles have, they are cheap hardware that becomes obsolete over the years.

As these machines get older and the graphics engines get heavier and heavier it gets harder and harder to get the same performance without sacrifices and a lot of time and work.

It is possible that a patch with a 60fps mode will come out later, or maybe not because they consider that too many cuts have to be made, in any case, whoever buys a console already knows what to expect in terms of performance throughout its life cycle.

This is nothing, pure sensationalism and empty news to generate clicks....

30fps on xbox, 60fps on PS5 lol

It doesn’t bother me tbh.

But im always of the opinion that there should be the choice. Because of modern tvs etc.

And as mentioned Phil/Greenburg have quoted about things releasing at 60fps.

If other companies can give the option then why can’t MS on their own platform?at release? Especially when they seem to be able to add it at a later date, starfield for instance.

@armondo36 wanting better quality is not whining.

For many people 60fps is far more needed than improved graphics.

If a developer isn’t going to respect my desire for 60fps then I’m not going to respect their desire for my money.

30fps stable is always better than an unstable 60fps.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner
And whilst Microsoft continue to create bad decisions on game development, over on the sister site, black myth is celebrating 10million copies sold on PS5 in three days.

See the vibe difference.

@Kienda you are proof of what I just said on the other article comment section. People bashing Xbox with 30fps but no problem with Zelda BOTW and TOTK dropping to 25fps frequently.

Some games need higher FPS due to gameplay like elden ring but it's not life or death not to have it even on a game like that people just love to moan😊

1 issue among Many. The bigger issue is not even having many first party releases this year. Hellblade 2 being the only one thus far is the major problem. If they'd have 4 or 5 releases already this year 30fps, I'd be stoked!

@OldGamer999 Lol 10 million on PS5?? read it there again. It says 10 million across ALL PLATFORMS.

PC alone has 8.5 million (steam) So PS5 accounts for 1.5 million only.

Xbox made this a ***** issue when Greenberg stated that 60 fps is the standard for next gen. Their first 2 big exclusives had 60 fps modes then the next 4 didn’t. As long as the game is good 30 fps can be over looked but when Avowed isn’t a big open world game like Starfield and isn’t as graphically intensive as Hellblade 2 it’s a very bad look optics wise.

If it plays like wukong's 60(trash)
I prefer 1000 times stable 30

It's quickly going to become an industry problem, Black Myth just launched on PS5 and uses frame generation to hit 60 and as more developers adopt the performance black hole that is Unreal Engine 5, then performance isn't going to get any better

@Fishmasterflex96 Greenberg also said despite being a standard, 60fps wasn't mandatory and the developer could choose what to do, but people leave out that part because it doesn't fit the 'xbox lied' narrative.

30fps is a huge issue. I can not play a game at 30fps. It's just too blurry. The devs are just being lazy. There should always be a performance mode that runs at 60fps on console. Especially in a game like Avowed with small, Outer Worlds sized environments. There is simply no excuse.

@Simplejohn
It plays well at 60fps on my tv with VRR on.
Though I do have a top of the range tv.

Not to worry when a lot smaller Chinese developer releases black myth on series x they will show Xbox studios what 60fps for them.

It's not a hardware issue or specific to xbox. It's likely a product of the long expensive development time. Personally, I would rather have the stable 30fps game now and get the 60 update later rather than nothing until the 60fps patch is ready or a janky "60fps" game that bounces to lower fps constantly.

@armondo36 So you really have no issue that every time they’ve showed the game it has been at 60 FPS but it turns out it only runs at 30? Or the fact that this isn’t the first time the exact same thing has happened? Or that Aaron Greenberg said that 60 FPS was going to be the standard for this generation?

Don’t be so condescending, I personally have no problem playing any game at 30 FPS, but they keep lying to us time and time again and creating false expectations showing us the PC version of the game at 60.

@Fishmasterflex96
Totally agree FH5 is the only top quality AAA on series x by an Xbox studio.
They have been lost ever since.

@eduscxbox
Apologies my mistake.
When I’m wrong I’m wrong, thanks for the correction.

PC customers will be offered the choice to sacrifice visuals for performance. XSX customers should also get that choice. No I’m not asking for a full PC-style graphics options menu (though that would be pretty cool), but just the basic quality and performance modes that most third party developers and Sony first party developers have been giving to console users this generation.

SSD load improvements and 60fps performance modes were supposed to be the key selling point of this generation of hardware vs the previous one.

In 2021 Xbox was all about the FPS Boost scheme. Look how far the mighty have fallen. It’s disappointing to me to see them regress to 30fps only for first party output.

This doesn’t bode well at all for Fable…

I'm willing to bet that internal metrics shows that this is one of those non-issues that only the die-hard core userbase actually get angry about, and that the average user tends to choose quality over performance, but I doubt that's something we'll ever actually know for sure.

@OldGamer999 the have had W’s and great games since then, just nothing reached that high. I love Starfield and consider it a great game but it certainly wasn’t on that next level. As for avowed I refuse to believe it won’t be 60 when it launches and that Obsidian is being coy with previews. Like Klorbrile pointed out after redfall all the trailers have been in 60, this is hub based and not open world so it should be less intensive, and they have Coalition as support to help them optimize. If it truly is only 30 Xbox needs to start firing a lot of people

Why can’t gaming company’s release a finished product anymore? There was a time when you bought a game and there were no patches required, no updates just a finished product that was ready for release. This is why I no longer buy on day 1. Better to wait 6 months when the game is not only cheaper but your also getting a better completed product.

I think it's a problem. A performance mode should be a given these days. I played Starfield at launch because it didn't look like we'd be getting a 60fps option, then later it came. I'll hold off and see if they sort it out later.

'You've got to think that this is the first wave of games that are being properly built with Xbox Series X and S as the primary consoles'

That really hits home the more i think about it. And they are already talking about the next gen.

@Fishmasterflex96
I have always said good average games but not wow amazing and also released not with 60fps.

I really don’t understand if Avowed releases not 60fps especially on series x a 12tflop console.
Or at least an option to.

I used love getting excited and buying games day one.
But the way they go about things like with Starfield patching 60fps latter it takes that day one excitement out of getting a game that should be very optimised and have 60fps option on day one.

I think that is my issue it takes all the day one release excitement away, while you wait for the 60fps patch.

@OldGamer999 I didn’t mind Starfield cause it still played well and could at least understand the scale and size being factors in the 30 fps decision. Loved the 60 fps update but it became clear Bethesda, Xbox and Todd lied out of their asses with saying it was a “creative decision”

@PSX1994
That’s why all the excitement of getting a game day one is taken away now, as it is unoptimised and the 60fps etc patch comes later and other quality of life fixes.

It so sad I don’t get excited about day one releases now and makes gaming a bit boring.

Also wonder what review Starfield would get now after all those patches 60fps etc and now a buggy to drive.

Once a bad review always a bad review and that is a shame for the developers.

@Fishmasterflex96
Xbox has a whole tells more lies than a British politician 🤣🤣🤣

@OldGamer999 it’s truly amazing how they get in their own way. Xbox has an internal mandate that must always follow good news with bad news to take themselves out at the new cap. This year alone, great developer direct then the business update that was very poorly messaged. In May they have 2 fantastic updates for Starfield and Diablo 4, then they announced they shut down Tango. Had a phenomenal showcase in June then they raised game pass prices and ***** over console game pass subscribers. And now at gamescom it’s been up and down the entire time. Will also say it’s amazing an open world next gen Xbox exclusive in Stalker 2 is 60 fps but Avowed a first party hub based game isn’t.

@Fishmasterflex96
Just watched the Avowed developer walk through gamescom.
Nothing special I could see that stops 60fps on a series x, should be easy.

When you think HFW burning shores runs 1800p at 60fps on a PS5 and Spider-Man’ 2 at the same with ray tracing then there is absolutely no excuse for Avowed.

@OldGamer999 also I mean they have Coalition in their corner, literally the best Unreal team outside of Epic. Also think it was stupid for Obsidian to have had the Art director to comment on the fps and not a more technical lead

For modern games, if the game isn't 60 i just skip it, simple as.

Before piling on the Xbox hate wagon, we need to wait and see what Sony's single player PS5 only games will run like, should they ever actually release any. If they get 60, then Xbox dropped the ball, but I suspect the industry is doing as the industry always does, 30fps if you don't buy a Pro console. It's not just Ex-Box. It's this entire generation releasing too soon and sucking because of it.

@OldGamer999 Remember that Horizon and SM were both built for PS4 and "upgraded" to PS5. Yeah, HFW:BS (lol) is "PS5 only",but how do you end up with a PS5-only DLC for a game built for PS4 as the lead platform? Artificial restriction for money that's how. I don't think Avowed compares to that. We saw the RTX comparison yesterday, something tells me the game is high load. SHould it be? IDK. But it looks like it is.

Also curious if it's CPU or GPU bound. Seems like most open world RPGs are CPU bound on both platforms. Because the CPUs in these consoles are still a POS like last gen, just less so. I think they're focused on small form factors and small power supplies, so the TDP budget goes to the GPU part of the APU and the CPU gets what's left over which doesn't gel with the modern open world designs.

Still, sucky hardware, sucky dev decisions, sucky generation. The beat goes on.

@eduscxbox Xbox Series X is the "world's most powerful console," yet it can't run fairly run-of-the-mill games from first-party developers at higher framerates, so some reason.

Tears of the Kingdom has a seamless open world and tons of complex physics systems running all the time and is running on, let's face it, hardware that would have been considered weak a decade ago.

Context is everything.

@NEStalgia didn’t returnal release with 60fps?

Didn’t SM2 have a pretty good 60fps?

I believe Astro bot is targeting 60 also?

Just as proof they can do it and give the option. And by various studios.

Just release a dodgy 60 FPS like most games do... so the same people moaning can then moan I would have just preferred a stable lower fps...I bet half the people complaining wouldnt even notice if a game released pretending to be 60fps...then later down the line where told it was actually only 30

Would I like a 60 FPS sure....but first and foremost I just want a stable game that feels decent to play...not a 60 FPS mode that jumps all over the place whenever things get abit crowded

Yes is a problem caused by the Series S imo, the system was a mistake unfortunately ☹️ Phil took a gamble trying to undercut Sony but it didn't pay off as the gap between PS5 and X/S is bigger than the gap of PS4 and Xbone.

Now we are stuck with a console that's holding back the generation for Xbox and we don't even get the higher sales from it. Yes the system itself is great but the Series X should be destroying the PS5 with raw power but it can't because of the little brother.

Bet we don't see Xbox do this again next gen. We'll get two console with same specs 🤞

@NEStalgia
Totally agree and said it before this generation should be releasing this fall 2024 and not four years ago.
Then we may of had a true next generation, not a 25% generation.

There's two particular issues. What they're developing for, and then the talent involved. Also please note: I'm NOT saying this about Obsidian, nor am I going to make claims on any developers in particular. I'm just saying that, you can have the strongest hardware in the world. It can be twenty times as powerful as the Series X, and if the developers aren't given the proper tools, or have the know-how to optimize... you'll always have situations like this. Add in that they also HAVE to cater to the lowest common denominator (being the Series S in this case)

I imagine they work backwards from that weakest system, Series S, which is the primary console they develop for to make it less of a headache, and then let the 'better' hardware do the heavy lifting by itself. In some cases, at least, I doubt that happens in every case.

Problem isn't the right wording, I'd say the communication needs to be clear and dry and wait to say anything like PlayStation does at or right before launch.

If a game pushes next gen visuals and ended up 30fps I think most people would understand it's a console it's finite power, it's understandable.

Most of the games coming from Xbox are NOT pushing next gen visuals, be it an art/texture/effects problem or whatever makes it not look "next-gen" problem to many gamers.

I think it's fair to assume Hellblade II, Fable, Indiana Jones, State of Decay 3 and Gears of War E-Day don't have this problem for being more realistic looking then South of Midnight doesn't either because the art was tuned correctly to still look amazing. Though basically the majority of all the other internal Xbox games shown do have a problem with their presentation and if coupled with saying "30fps" is a recipe for people to say something is wrong.

Same for their AA games that don't look next gen if they look fun to play and have a 60fps mode people don't seem to have a problem for that too.

I think when you present a game to be a tent pole game for a quarter or half of a year for Xbox's output = this is what we have and considered our "AAA" output for this timeframe for you as a consumer. It gives the wrong message when a game presented as "AAA" and it really looks and plays more as a AA and is only 30fps.

'Redfall did it, so are we trying to repeat with Avowed?' is what I'm hearing online.

@Tecinthehead
No no no don’t blame the little tissue box 🤣
I get what you mean and all the things I said back at the start of this generation, when Halo Infinite went wrong have stood true through Xbox generation.

Back then I used to get so much heat for it, but now it is has been proven the last 3 years or so, it’s only the super Microsoft fan that has ago.

Xbox the average good games for game pass and all devices and the series s. Is absolutely why we are here today with average good Xbox games.
Not brilliant quality AAA games.

A cap of 30FPS, around about this frame rate, and especially when it dips below that gives me eyestrain, headaches, nausea and dizziness.

Worth noting that capped at 30 doesn't mean it always runs at 30, Starfield frame rate tanked frequently.

The fact that the Series X is only borderline better than my Xbox One X, the cost involved and the fact it can barely keep up with my 10 year old PC is pretty shocking.

It is pretty much only console players who think such low frame rates are acceptable, even 60 is a relatively low target, where a game becomes acceptable. This is what you get when developers use game engines off the shelf.

I don't think that the Series X has a problem with 30fps, but I do think the Series S does, and I think that the Xbox dictum of having parity for both the S and the X is a major part of this...

@Fishmasterflex96 I get that you're frustrated but lashing out at others isn't going to help any discussion. Take a breath, remember this is just vidyo gaems.

@Savage_Joe I know it's pathetic

@Simplejohn LOL yeah, Wukong's "60" is actually "30" with framegen, which AMD states shouldn't be done. Though TBF, Wukong is an Nvidia sponsored game, so one would expect it would perform trash on anything AMD which includes XB/PS. Probably would run better on an Nvidia powered Switch LOL. (Similarly Starfield runs garbage on Nvidia. It's AMD sponsored.)

@LMN118 Even most PHONE games are 60+fps...

@Tecinthehead Series S isn't the problem. The games are built for PC, and it needs to target a large variety of PCs including those worse than the Series S. Sony will be doing this too, as they target PC too now (not at launch, but the games are best built for it at the start) All publishers will. Also remember Cloud is MS' future goal and right now that's running Series S hardware. Finally competent hardware strategy would be to differentiate Series S from Series X by showcasing Series X running 60fps where Series S only runs 30. It's not Series S fault.

Meanwhile PC players will complain they can't get it over 120fps with Ultra RT.

@Ralizah Yeah, but Nintendo's using Nvidia hardware.......

Seriously though it does amaze me that Nintendo's running full physics simulations on a potato, and the last PC developer that ran full physics was probably Valve in HL2 that ran on a Pentium III. Somehow in the timespan of 20 years PC devs went from full physics models on a P3, to being unable to do so at all with 16GB DDR4, 12 cores, and 100MB cache. WTF happened to PC devs?

(Ok, to be fair, this is Obsidian and their games were always sloths in performance, but still...)

@OldGamer999 TBH I blame Sony for that. Xbox just did the X1X, that was their "upgrade" console, they were set for YEARS with that. It was Sony that prematurely went into "transition" and stopped releasing PS4 games, to "transition" for like 2 years into PS5, and then only after PS5 announced did they suddenly open up the floodgates to all the PS4 games they'd held back "surprise, we didn't transition at all!" MS had to cobble together the Series to keep up, but I don't think MS was in a generational switch position at all. And then we found out, neither was Sony, they just painted the PS4Pro2 white for market reasons.

EVERYTHING about this generation is what pushed me back to PC. I hate GPU prices, I hate Jensen, I hate them locking software features behind $1k hardware, but as much as I hate it, this generation both MS and Sony played inside industry baseball, destroyed an entire generation of gaming, and left the consumer with the invoice. It'll take a decade at least for that sour taste to wash away.

TL;DR: I blame Jim Ryan.

Non-issue for me. I don't see the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps.

If you want 60fps you need to buy a pc - it’s abundantly clear that Microsoft now regard pc as their high end option for games and seem to be positioning it as the lead platform.

Avowed is launching on pc with RTX and DLSS 3 frame gen - features that have been developed to take full advantage of nvidia’s 40 series hardware. Features that are also completely absent from Xbox which uses AMDs RDNA architecture.

I believe this is the first Microsoft studio’s title to fully target NVIDIA gpu’s - previous titles only had FSR and DLSS support and little to no form of raytracing. In the case of Starfield, an AMD sponsored title, DLSS was only made available post launch with a patch that launched several weeks later.

I’m also no longer sure how many of their games are previewed and shown running on series x hardware vs pc hardware.

I'm really glad I'm not afraid of PCs. 😛

@eduscxbox Nintendo didn’t brag and advertised having the “most powerful console on the market”. Don’t compare Apples to Oranges…

Just remember, Timesplitters, Smash Bros Melee and Metroid Prime all ran at 60FPS... on the GameCube...

@NEStalgia Pillars of Eternity II comes to mind as an Obsidian game that just... Barely ran. It bombed so hard financially that Obsidian basically never even bothered to fix it. It's years later and it still runs awful. Great game, otherwise.

I can honestly say I can't tell so does not worry me.

1080p 60fps is the bare minimum and should be achievable across this lauded most powerful console

It's the last console I'll ever buy outside of a Nintendo offering.

With all the games showing up on PC, for significantly cheaper, with better or the same control options and significantly, hugely better visuals and framerates it's a no brainer.

I tried still wakes the deep on my X and it was 30fps like looking at it through vaseline without the bells and whistles. Performance mode was a vile smeary mess. Boot it up on the PC and it's pushing 150fps at max settings. It's just too big of a gulf. I've not found a reason to turn my Xbox or ps5 on, bar using the xbox to stream Goldeneye or a simple indie game to my steam deck.

I fear unless consoles are willing to up the price points significantly, and/or invest heavily into Nvidia and their DLSS solutions then they are never going to look good or perform well and certainly not both at once on 'AAA' or visually challenging games.

Saddest part is it means to experience GTA6 is once again playing through a blurry 30fps or lower mess with a bunch of pop in, poor graphics and controller latency just like GTA5. At least we won't have to run it off a thumb drive to reduce the pop in errors this time or whatever that was 🙄

Let’s get some articles that stop riling up the crybabies. Gamers are the most entitled, toxic whiners I have ever seen. Such first world problems. Go outside, get some sun, spend time with friends and family, have a laugh, help others in need and stop taking things so seriously. Life and gaming will go on. If you think 30 fps is so bad, go live in war torn Ukraine. Think of what those poor people go through on a daily basis.

@cburg Those poor people in Ukraine had to go through trying to make Stalker 2 try to run 60fps on Series X. At some point you just give up.

For sure. And it hurts the brand.
Why bother getting a game on Xbox when I can get it on PC, with free online, and it runs better?

@IOI This has nothing to do with bragging, Xbox IS the most powerful console.

The point here is not power, but optimization.

FPS is not the only metric of a hardware power. There is performance, sure, but also graphics, effects, post-processing and so on.

What people are saying is that if it runs at 30fps it is not the most powerful while disregarding all other technological features of the game, as if FPS was the sole measure of power. It is not.

@Ralizah

In a hypothetical situation, I'm pretty sure Zelda BOTW could run flawlessly on Xbox hardware at 4K @ 60fps.
Avowed, on the other hand, would not be able to run on Switch.

You see, the reason for that is that Xbox games uses a way more modern technolgies for graphics, lighting, shadows, post-processing and so on.

People are reducing everything to 'frames per second' as if it is the only measurment of a console's power. But it is not.

Comparing those two games by their framerate disregarding the whole graphics technology level between them is not context.

"Tears of the Kingdom has a seamless open world and tons of complex physics systems running all the time and is running on, let's face it, hardware that would have been considered weak a decade ago."

So is Starfield (in a way bigger scale) , but I haven't seem the same standards being applied there, and I don't even go into the update 60fps patch because it lowers quality to do so, but still.

Power is not the problem. Problem is people concept of power is reduced to frames per second.

@eduscxbox You don't need to mansplain the concept of graphical fidelity to me, hon.

My point is simply this: TotK is a miracle on the technology it's operating on, whereas XSX is capable of so much more than Microsoft's developers are getting out of it. Consider also how the comparatively powerful PS5's first-party games almost all have higher performance options, yet are still fairly industry-leading in terms of their presentation for major AAA titles.

Of the three big manufacturers, Microsoft is the one doing the least in terms of fully harnessing its own hardware with the games it publishes.

Also: "So is Starfield (in a way bigger scale) , but I haven't seem the same standards being applied there"

No, no it isn't. Starfield is a game filled with many, many loading screens. I used the word "seamless" very specifically: TotK is a dense open world composed of three different layered maps that never seems to force loading, no matter where you go. Like, literally, you can start on a sky island, dive toward the surface, target one of the entrances to the Depths, and dive down to the bottom of that, all in real time. On a Switch.

@NEStalgia A lot of AAA developers have abandoned interactivity and physics simulations for their worlds in general, which is disappointing. Most of the industry is using supercomputers to churn out games that feel like strolls through a museum, where you're not allowed to touch anything; Nintendo is going nuts on hardware that might as well be powered by hamsters running on wheels.

Somebody actually used the term "mansplain" unironically. Insane.

I'm sorry, you've done PS5 a disservice here. Completely missing out games like Spiderman 2 and Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart just seems like you've ignored them on purpose because it proves the point you're trying to avoid. Also, while The Last of Us Part 1 is last gen, the remake isn't. It was built for the PS5 and doesn't even have a PS4 release. I'm not a PS5 fanboy (before anybody even thinks that, I have that and a Series X) but looking at the performance of something like Starfield even with the 60FPS mode, it's shocking compared to what you're we're getting with Spiderman 2 on PS5. This is an issue Xbox need to solve and I think that needs to start with getting rid of the Series S requirement, it's obviously affecting development as it's even been mentioned by multiple devs. Developing games for Series X that need to run on Series S was a good idea to begin with, but as the devs tap into to obvious power the Series X has it's going to make fitting them on the Series S too even more difficult.

@Ralizah Confirmed!

yeah, I really, REALLY don't get what happened to the typical PC dev. From HL2's breakthrough physics to....modern..... how did we go backwards from 1999 onward?

@NEStalgia Oh boy.

@Ralizah 'mansplain?!' Lol. I'll ignore that.

TOTK runs at 720p. Avowed at 4K.
How is that even comparable?
How is that not using Xbox power?

"Starfield has lots of loading screen".

Zelda BOTW and TOTK has lots of pop in all the time, you can see enemies appearing out of nothing, don't know how that is seamless, that doesn't make it a bad game tho, and as I've said before, 30fps is just fine for Zelda, Starfield or Avowed.

What you're doing is trying to find ways to keep using your double standards.

@eduscxbox

"TOTK runs at 720p. Avowed at 4K.
How is that even comparable?
How is that not using Xbox power?"

Of course the more powerful device renders games at a higher resolution. But that's all. Games like Hellblade 2 and Starfield feel dated at release because they don't use the greater mechanical grunt of the Series X to meaningfully expand gameplay possibilities or smooth out performance in addition to boosting the presentation. There's a reason these releases are failing to make a splash in the same way that major releases from the competition are.

"Zelda BOTW and TOTK has lots of pop in all the time, you can see enemies appearing out of nothing, don't know how that is seamless, that doesn't make it a bad game tho, and as I've said before, 30fps is just fine for Zelda, Starfield or Avowed."

So we're saying there's not a meaningful difference between a dense and fully seamless open world and an "open world" that's riddled with loading screens every time a door is opened because the former features pop in of enemy character models? Deeply disingenuous.

The issue isn't 30fps being unplayable for those games. The issue is that the performance metrics are disappointing for the hardware they're on. Compare what Sony's developers are achieving on similar hardware with their own first-party games. Heck, many developers now are able to provide stable and comparatively visually impressive AAA experiences.

"What you're doing is trying to find ways to keep using your double standards."

There are no double standards here. There's an obvious context you refuse to acknowledge because it would require acknowledging that Microsoft's developers are failing to properly optimize their games for the Series X in order to get the most out of the hardware.

People here who claim about a 'blurry' 30 FPS, I have to wonder what they think 30 FPS is. You look at a video running at 30 FPS and one running at 60 FPS, if the frame rate is solid, you'll not notice a blind bit of difference.

To say that '30 FPS is unplayable' is a lie. The problem is when people declare that they want the Performance mode on all the time, and ignore the fact the game is also in 1080p or 1440p.

You don't get screen tearing or massive frame rate dips at 30 FPS on even a Series S, which is why a lot of games have a Quality/Performance toggle, since they know that, when you go for looking frakking gorgeous at a high frame rate, when the particles go flying and the screen starts to fill up, it's the frame rate that tanks first.

Series s has been a gamble that hasn't paid off and it's been to series x what consoles have been to pc a total burden that is not allowing games to reach their potential.

Whoever makes these decisions with the games needs to ask themselves why would anyone want an Xbox where you're forced to play 30fps when they can get a pc and choose their frame rate. 60fps should always be the target never 30fps it's not 2006.

@cburg It's the people like you that have made gaming so bad with your apologist /fanboy esque attitude, if it wasn't for the "whiners" games like cyberpunk or no man's sky wouldn't have been fixed, people are entitled to complain about a product that they've spent money on.

Also if you're so concerned with other people then go to these places and try to make a difference instead of virtue signalling trying to act like we should all consume product and be quiet.

I have mixed feelings regarding Series S, but I'm really skeptical about the idea that it's causing games to run poorly on Series X.

If anything, it should be the opposite: if devs can get their games to run at 30fps on Series S, then that guarantees a ton of headroom (especially on the GPU) to get these games looking and running better on Series X.

I suspect that games are instead targeting hardware above Series X's capabilities. Then, they have to be optimized- or just as likely scaled down- for XSX, and then further downgraded to get some semblance of stability on XSS.

If devs targeted XSS, or Switch... or GameCube specs (as an extreme example!), then it'd be a piece of cake to hit 4K60 consistently without sacrificing clarity or draw distance. But it would be at the expense of all the bells and whistles, of course.

I believe the problem is trying to get games running at 4K and HDR10 and at the same time running at 60 frames per second. Older games might be at 1080p or 720p and can easily do 60 frames per second because their is less they have to do and they likely copy anime/ cartoon animation to render the games. And seriously how many people can actually see a noticeable difference without using video software to check the frame rate?

I'm sorry, but it's 2024. I'm not playing anything at 30 FPS, and I haven't for several years. This was the primary reason I have primarily become a PC player these days.

Microsoft and Sony are the ones who created the issue, so I don't feel bad for them in the least. Since the Xbox One-PS4 Gen they've been talking about 1080-60 when most of their games a console Gen later can't do that, and NOW they promised 4K 60FPS this Gen as the standard.

Aside from specific genres where it's noticeable like FPS, I generally don't care as long as it's stable. But don't say you're going to do something as a company if you're not 110% sure you can do it, then complain about people complaining about the things you promised and they paid for.

I’m not exaggerating when I say I was on the fence whether to play this or not but I promise you, 30 fps has completely turned me off. I’ll maybe have a look later if and when a 60fps mode becomes available

I'd like to point out that Stalker 2 is reportedly running at 60fps (only one graphics mode available at Gamescom) according to Digital Foundry. An open world Unreal Engine 5 shooter. So Series S might not be the real culprit behind 30fps in Avowed.

devs cant optimize for sh*t nothing new

Omg my 500$ box cant play 4K-60fps!!! At the same time you need at least 500$ for only the gpu to play 4K-60fps with a pc...

What would people prefer? Getting the game out as soon as possible @ 30fps or waiting a further 6 months for 60fps? No real gamer worth their salt is realistically going to go for option 2. Suck it up.

These days I love nothing more than visiting the Xbox store page, seeing an old game on sale and buying it, knowing it has all the dlc and is essentially now a fully working game.
Day one games thesedays are a Jo,e. Most arrive in a shocking state. Avowed will totally get a 60 fps update down the road. Until then, I guess I'll play it on my rog ally with setting low for 60.

30fps should have been a thing of the past two generations now

@Kohaku load up Control and switch between 30fps and 60. If you can’t tell a difference I don’t know what to say to you.

60fps should now be the standard. I won’t avoid a game if it’s only 30fps like Hellblade 2 was, but I’ll be disappointed.

Because of misleading marketing and unrealistic expectations of static/aging hardware, people will continue to complain about this. I mean, Microsoft misled people. Have you seen Mad Men? They lie! I'm not disappointed because I knew better, but for those that didn't, now you do.

I guess you can argue for performance over graphics but then there will be a huge contingent that will complain about graphics not getting better. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I wish realistic expectations were set for the beginning of this generation, but oh well.

I just want a finished game at launch.

Nintendo is good at that (apart from the pokemon company). Why can’t any of the xbox teams?

@Deityjester people like me? Please. You know nothing about me. Carry on.

@eduscxbox you are completely wrong about me making exceptions for 30fps with Zelda.

I don’t like the fact that BotW is 30fps, but what other choice is there?

I haven’t played ToTK yet with hopes I can play it at 60fps on Switch 2.

@Weebleman 30fps only or not, this is what Xbox brand and internal studios are saying is okay for their "default" consoles this generation.

Likely only Indiana Jones will have a 60fps mode day one in a very long time for ANY current generation only video games for their wall powered consoles.

If this was Switch, okay it's super old tablet hardware running games it makes way more sense at a fraction of the power on a battery.

Frame generation exists now on consoles, dynamic resolution has been a thing for 5+ years now too. The VRR wndow is really good on the Xbox Series consoles USE it to your advantage.
What this tells me is sure optimization happens.but why are we not getting the Coliation and Playground Games assisting other Xbox Games Studios with product finalization to have games run their best anymore?

I honestly don't know what Xbox is doing besides just catering just to PC gamers.

Microsoft has a problem with Series X/S output in general.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner Returnal did run at 60FPS… but it also ran at 1080P internally

Seriously, what part of gamers wanting 60fps do the game makers not understand. A very pretty 4K screen shot is not moving, and it's the movement in a video game that makes 60 fps superior to 30fps. It is 2024, 60fps should be the minimum.

@OldGamer999 Why are you here promoting the PS Pro. Get out of here with your dumb playstation badge man. You are just trying to stir up drama. 30fps allows for twice the fidelity of graphics pushed. Any game can be 60fps if they want but it can only push 1/2 of the assetts. It's basic game development which none of you seem to understand.

@AverageGamer Right. Any game can be 60fps if it's 720P. Just look at the news of black myth wukong that hits 720P on playstation 5...

@Grippie
Really let’s see if Avowed is anywhere near the graphical detail of HFW burning shores and Spider-Man 2 that both run at 60fps on PS5.

Also those games give the gamer the choice. 30fps, 40fps for 120hz VRR tv and 60fps.

Why do you stick up for this rubbish 30fps that Microsoft studios give you. What was the point of the series x being 12tflop for then.

@Grippie
The choice by Microsoft is to develop a game in this case Avowed across lots of platforms.
Series s and x and pc and cloud gaming.

If the Avowed developers were just developing for the series x alone and given the time, the game would just look the same and be at 60fps.

This is why both Sony and Nintendo developers get the best out of their consoles, it because they only have to develop a game for one console and no other devices.
And that’s what Sony and Nintendo as a business prioritise Microsoft business model is different and prioritise developing games on lots of devices, but it comes at quality cost.

@WhiteRabbit Go play Concord with the 60 fps.

@OldGamer999 Why are you here? Do you actually own an Xbox?

@OldGamer999 “ If the Avowed developers were just developing for the series x alone and given the time, the game would just look the same and be at 60fps.”

TBH… I don’t think Avowed being solely made for just Series X would have changed anything. Obsidian has alway been an extremely average C tier developer who were lucky enough to have a few break out hits like New Vegas… They’ve been living on borrowed time, and probably why they agreed to be purchased by Microsoft.

Their studios focus have never really been on the technical aspects of games like frame rate or the graphical fidelity. Vs Guerrilla who entire exist since their purchase by Sony has been nothing but the technical aspects of their games, and how pretty they look… But is a snooze fest 😴 to play.

“ Microsoft business model is different and prioritise developing games on lots of devices, but it comes at quality cost.”

This hasn’t affected the quality of Forza Horizon nor the recent Gears games… so moot point.

@Savage_Joe is this 60fps on ps5?

Weird how it’s not on series x then seeing as it’s supposed to be more powerful. Or is it being held back by series s?

@datamonkey this is more about how the PS5 and Cerney’s genius really are compared to xbox engineers’. The PS5 gpu may have less tflops than Series X, but their cores are significantly faster. This means that rendering time will be much lower on PS5 than Series X when using the exact same graphical settings. Also, the PS5 components are more cooperative and closely put together, unlike the Series X which looks like they threw random high end components hoping to mix well together.

@avoidercat news don't pay the bills

@cburg I don't think he owns a ps5 either

I left IGN due to fanboy toxicity, and I've stopped commenting here due to many articles lately encouraging fanboy toxicity. I guess I'll just leave now then 😅.

For the record, 60fps is not an xbox exclusive problem but also for the PS5. It's a problem for both current gen consoles.

@avoidercat you'll end up very little content to read if you had a filter. Around 60% of the articles here now are done for rage clicks.

@AverageGamer
Yes correct Forza Horizon 5 is probably the only quality AAA game since series consoles released coming up to four years ago from an Xbox studio.

We had not had a major gears of war game really released yet and it’s 5 years this year since gears 5. But I hope you are correct when gears E Day releases.

@cburg
I have owned every single Xbox console day one since the original Xbox.

Hence the frustration with Xbox, If you have had the massive joy and pleasure of living through the original Xbox days and of course the glory xbox360 then you would understand.

How Microsoft have gone from some of the most amazing top quality studio AAA games in the xbox360 days to what we have now the mess of this series x generation.

It’s not you great bunch that fuels me, it’s Microsoft’s down grading of Xbox and what it truly was to like be an Xbox gamer with Xbox studios at their best in the Xbox360 days.
When the general public outside of the USA, especially in the UK cherished Xbox gaming and the console and games were a force and talked about.

@OldGamer999 I bring up Gears cause 5 released at a time where they was developing for One X/S and PC. So it no different than what they are currently doing when it comes to developing games for Series X/S and PC.

@AverageGamer
Well lets see what this next batch of Xbox studios games are like.
The last major batch, Redfall, Starfield and Forza hardly set the world alight.

I think Indy is next then Avowed and if Indy is magnificent then that is great for gamers.

Remember I’m in Europe UK and Sony and Nintendo are so dominant, but Xbox was in the 360 days. So it’s very quiet and low level over here now for Xbox. I can’t even remember an Xbox advert since a few for Starfield on bus stop boards, and that is low level advertising.

Personally, it does not bother me as I always play on Quality Mode - I prefer to play with better visuals and as a movie lover, my brain is totally accustomed with 30 fps movements (well, 24, for cinema, but it's a tie).

BUT not offering the choice is a HUGE mistake for Microsoft as it sends ANOTHER bad message to the players (and the company clearly doesn't need that right now).

It is my understanding that Sony is planning a PS5 Pro in the months to come. Whether this model is really needed is almost irrelevant - it will send a clear message to the players : "We've got the most powerful console for you".

And the 30 fps debacle, on the other hand, is clearly sending another message.

A message not really good for Microsoft's business.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner No point in calling him out on outright lies, he never acknowleges them. You'll just get another essay of his Sony misinformation and hate rants which will completely ignore anything you have said.
Fact is, other developers on the alternate platform manage 60 all the time, as do 3rd parties on xbox. Despite selling you on the idea of 60fps, MS dont deliver and brazenly lie about why - 'creative choice' aint fooling no one.
Fortunately they have some decent studios which wouldnt dream of releasing a modern game at 30fps, like ID and the Coalition. They need to ensure the rest of their devs keep up.

@WhiteRabbit

Just a quick reminder, if you own an Xbox you're not actually allowed say anything negative about the platform. This goes against community rules. Xbox and Microsoft are there greatest and any negative news and/or talk is rage-bait cooked up by Pure Xbox and 'teh ponies'.

Kind regards, the Xbox Defence Force.

@Titntin
Wise words from the boss, as always.

Of course it does. And MS does not even bother bringing an updated version of the console like Sony does with upcoming PS5 Pro that should solve all the issues of quality vs performance modes in 4K games.

I have XBox Series X but I will buy PS5 Pro and will not be forced to performance for quality compromises.

Major issue….leave 30fps to the dark ages and move on FFS.
If you can’t release a game at 60fps on the series X then don’t bother! Sick of this.

I really depends on the game. For a cinematic game like Hellblade 2, I think 30 fps totally makes sense. For games with more robust gameplay, 60 fps should be standard.

For a stable 30fps its .. okay.
For the best experience i use my gaming pc.
But with what Microsoft promised i would expect at least 60fps for the games of such a beast as series X.

If they can't offer 60fps on almost all their 1st party they got a serious problem, do they do not have promote their console with 60fps as a standard and promote all their games running at 60fps? Thats a marketing bs and i tyink consumer would have the right to launch a collective lawsuit for false advertisement.

@OldGamer999 "black myth" is a 3rd party game nothing whatsoever to do with Sony, over on the sister site Sonys actual release game Concord is being talked about being a disastrous flop. the worst game of 2023 'Gollum' even had more players on steam release day than Concord .

See the vibe difference.

@Kienda How did you play video games on original Xbox, 360, game cube, wii, game boy, or ps3?

None of those to my knowledge were 60 fps. Come to think of it. Not even sure Switch has many games that are 60 fps.

@Blastfemur So this generation of video games is the first time you ever played video games? This generation of video games is the first and only console you've ever owned and played?

Nope. I'm old as $#@&. I was one of the first kids in my neighborhood to own an Atari (before it was designated the 2600). I understand what you're getting at. And it's a combination of new TV technology and my eyes getting older. Because of the promise of this new generation, I decided to buy into both consoles again. Last generation, I built a PC. You can see from all of these comments that the majority of gamers agree with me in saying that all games (or at least first person) should be 60 frames per second. Some games are better than others. I found Starfield playable at 30 frames per second. I missed the smoothness that comes with 60, but it was still playable. Redfall on the other hand was absolutely unplayable at 30 frames per second due to the blurry movement.

@Vordus Think it was the question last week the Xbox Insider, basically, straight up asked, does 60 fps matter to you.

I was like nope, not even a little bit. 30 fps a second is really all you need.

To further prove my point, how many people, or articles have you read that people walked out of movie theater or refuse to see a movie because it is only 24 fps.

Yep. Movies are 24 fps. No one complains.

@OldGamer999 No one will admit it. But covid hurt this generation completely. There really a lot if truth in your saying should held off 4 years for this gen.

@cburg I agree with you 1,000,000%.

It's very comparable to what James Cameron said with people complaining about True Lies, Aliens in 4k. He straight up said, "When people start reviewing your grain structure, they need to move out of mom's basement and meet somebody."

@GuyinPA75 Don't tell me you think that film framerates and videogame framerates are even remotely comparible...

If you believe that, you need to do some research.

@GuyinPA75
Covid did hurt this generation and also created the work from home hybrid working more than ever.
And this is still happening and hurting game development.

@GuyinPA75 I struggled with certain games. After all 30fps is most noticeable for first person games (imho). During that period I didn’t play certain games because of the 30fps restriction. Even games like Last of Us I didn’t play till 60fps on PS4.

I’ve been a PC gamer for ages and used to 120+ FPS titles. I have played competitively also. So 30fps is noticeable for me.

And during the 360/Wii period I mostly gamed on PC versions of those games. I had more disposable income back. Now I’m almost exclusively console focused so it’s more of an issue for me.

But like I said, I avoided certain games in the PS3/360 era just as I avoided last gen and now this gen. This isn’t something new for me.

@OldGamer999 See, you get it. Sad others do not understand.

@GuyinPA75 This is research you can do on your own but, the basic idea is two-factor:

1. Videogames are active, film is passive. You don't interact with a film, you simply observe it. One of the core problems with low framerates in games is poor interaction. A game that is only polling input 24 times a second would feel awful to play for example.

2. Film is captured via a shutter, at a certain shutter speed, whereas game frames are rendered instantaneously. In short this means that a film frame has perfect, natural motion blur that helps it remain fluid, while game frames do not. A game has to make up for this by having more frames, or it looks jarring and unnatural as it moves from frame to frame. Gaming motion blur attempts to solve this problem but it's only a bandaid.

I suggest you do some reading on the topic on your own as it is quite interesting. But again, viewing a film and a videogame side-by-side with both running at 24 FPS should make this issue quite obvious. You should also not resort to insulting people who disagree with you.

@GuyinPA75 Thanks for understanding.

I like to think I speak my own mind and don’t jump on bandwagons, but clearly I’m vocal about this at a time others are also. And to show my understanding to you, I’m sure the moaning is a bit much for people who don’t see a problem and that people are making big deal over nothing.

My wife and kids are all totally fine with 30fps and don’t even notice half the time. But for me it’s the point where I prefer downgraded graphics with high FPS over amazing graphics with low FPS. And coming from a PC gaming background I just don’t understand why both sides can’t be catered to on console.

Like I said though, even though I’m vocal, I’m still happy to wait until the game is 60fps. But Avowed was top of my wish list so it’s a bit disappointing.

@GuyinPA75 Peter Jackson attempted to up the framerate of movies to 60fps, and the result was that everything looked wrong. We're so used to 24fps in movies that 60fps looks too much like cheap daytime TV footage. Sort of like a reversed echo of when George A. Romero shot Night of The Living Dead in black and white because it was cheap, and it made everything creepier because audiences at the time associated black and white with news footage.

On the other hand, in video games 60fps is a nice thing to have. In some genres it is essential. At some point it will doubtlessly be the standard, but right now folks are just as interested in justifying their purchase of a massive 4K screen as they are in playing things with a smoother framerate, and our current hardware can only do one of those two things at a time.

@GuyinPA75 Calling people hipsters for having a different opinion, and saying they're "crying" is in fact insulting them. Sure, we played 30fps as kids because we essentially had no choice. People also rode in horse and buggies before cars were available, but I doubt many would want to go back. For me, 60 FPS is the ground floor. If a game can't sustain 60 or better, I'm not playing it. That's a big part of the reason I've become a PC player these days, where you have a choice between visuals and framerate, and can upgrade as you wish.

@GuyinPA75 Ah, more insults... how surprising, lol. You need to learn that you can disagree with people without insulting them. I'm not insulting you for being OK with 30 FPS for example. Resorting to insults is typically what you do when you have nothing to add to a debate. Look how many of your previous comments have been deleted for that very reason.