Xbox Wants More Feedback From Devs, Including Why Some Are Avoiding The Platform

I’m wiling to bet it’ll amount to “too much work, too little benefit.”

Not saying that is or is not accurate but I’d wager that’s what most of the non-participating devs will say.

If the majority of developers simply say "the sales of products on your console compare to the competition isn't enough to justify the cost of porting," I am not quite sure there is anything Microsoft can do about that.

Despite how things have turned on for the Xbox brand, MIcrosoft really did try hard this generation and it just didn't work.

Microsoft handled cross-gen way better than Sony
Microsoft provided a much better feature set for Series X|S over PlayStation
Microsoft released actual new games. Microsoft couldn't predict the reception of said games, but not one first-party game Microsoft released said "Remastered" or "Director's Cut" on the box nor did Microsoft charge $10 more for Series X|S upgrades.

People call the Series S a mistake, but Microsoft was trying to give people economic options. I am sure the thought was in the right place.

It certainly wasn't perfect, but it wasn't as if Microsoft didn't try to overcome the woes of last generation.

People just stuck to their PlayStations - just like people stick with their iPhones with every generation because it's too much hassle to change over to Android.

I think for smaller studios with limited budget, the issue is gamepass. (For consumers obv it’s still pretty good value)

If they get on GP they basically don’t lose, but if you are an indie that is not on GP (PS is probably slightly different) it’s a lot more difficult.

The larger companies have the financials to look at from previous games to see if it’s worth it for them.

@GamingFan4Lyf
They may have done somethings right.
But the PR and advertising has been shocking in Europe and UK.

I mean they introduced two new consoles and of course games but at big push on the save all Gamepass and didn’t tell the general public.

Elsewhere Nintendo adverts on TV and Sony everywhere PR wise.

Will give you an example in the UK.
Went into a massive chain of shops called Primark last Sunday.

Went to the adults section, PlayStation slippers, T shirts and big fluffy nightwear things.

Went into the kids section Playstation and Especially Nintendo clothes everywhere.

Obviously these clothes are all deals done with Sony and Nintendo and create brand awareness and make money.

Zero Xbox clothing merchandise, they might as well not exist in the kids and adults general public eyes.
Don’t give them break, they are doing nothing to promote the Xbox brand and it makes me ducking hate them for it, being an xboxer.

@OldGamer999 Interesting.

Other than Nintendo character clothing in the kids section, the only place to find "gamer wear" in the US is GameStop or online.

@GamingFan4Lyf made the switch this gen because of Xbox all access here in the UK. Honestly, the "ecosystem" for Xbox is so much better for consumers. Price, reward points, free back compat etc. They really did knock it out of the park from a system and user POV.

I actually think everything we see from them at the moment fits in with the whole semi-open console theories for next gen, and I welcome a kind of "pc lite" experience with open arms. Inviting devs to give opinions, whether that be that MS has bad partner communication or something more obvious like series s parity etc. I think continues to pave the way for that path.

I'm all for it, recently started feeling like Xbox is finally the better place to be. Hard when we constantly see reports about ps hardware numbers dwarfing Xbox, but Xbox releases day and date on PC anyway so more people to aim at anyway. Exciting times ahead!

@GamingFan4Lyf I would have never gotten into Xbox if it wasnt for the Series S being dirt cheap. Couple years later I got an X as well and I use my Xbox consoles way more than my PS5 and Switch. Xbox is in my book without a doubt the winner this generation, even if their sales numbers can't compete.

Dude just read this website comments Phil smh

@Coletrain I talked to a few of my "PlayStation" acquaintances about Series X|S and about the ecosystem vs Sony's approach.

They disagreed with what was Sony was doing and were impressed with how Microsoft was handling things.

Still bought PlayStation 5. 🤷‍♂️

PS: those people don't play Sony exclusives - they are the annual COD/Madden/etc. crowd. So, it's not as if they would be missing out on anything by switching.

@GamingFan4Lyf
In Europe UK some major chains sell a lot of gaming merchandise.

They need to attack on all fronts, they need to be everywhere and extremely visual.

clothes merchandise
Stream TV adverts
main TV adverts
Billboard adverts

Show the general public you exist and what you have to offer, it’s the first rule general public engagement.
If they don’t know, they won’t know.

Get your name out there get the brand spread everywhere. It’s like they have hidden away in Europe and UK, like given up.

@GamingFan4Lyf
This year they should be pushing out call of duty console bundles and deals, the console with a special cover and game inside.
Like PlayStation used to do with COD.

But Xbox are just sitting back and think it will happen like magic, NO it won’t, you need to tell people Xbox is the home of COD.

@OldGamer999 I don't disagree. I have no idea why Microsoft has such a low advertising budget.

@GamingFan4Lyf People just stuck to their PlayStations - just like people stick with their iPhones with every generation because it's too much hassle to change over to Android.

Hassle maybe, or in many cases they don’t like Android or Xbox. They like playing on PS and have no need. They enjoy exclusive features to the iPhone like FaceTime etc etc. More People switch every year from Android to iPhone vs the other way around. Same with PS and Xbox more people are leaving to the other platform and thats what MS need’s to worry about. Their answer to that is simple, PS talks less and normally put’s out high rated games. Xbox is always talking and confusing everyone, bringing their games to PS won’t help. But at the very least MS talk when it’s someting that needs to be said. This Gen has been a lack of high rated games and a message to the player base that is more confusing than solving world peace.

Fire the Xbox president. Make cheaper AA games.

@HonestHick
Spot on there Buddy.

@HonestHick
It also doesn’t help when you look at game charts or go into shops and see the game charts.
And not an Xbox game inside sight.

They have so lost brand reputation and recognition outside of the USA I unfortunately don’t think they can rescue it now.
Unless they go on a mass PR stunt and brand recognition programme in Europe and UK etc.

Xbox really hamstrung themselves this generation. There's a ton of reasons.

-the insistence that every game have a Series Exclusive version. No back compat via Xbone only versions. If a game does release for both generations, it not only requires licensing for both, but also total compatibility with Series S. When a dev can opt to ignore this and focus on PC, PS4 and Switch with NONE of these problems, it's easy to see why.

-less than 50% of PS5 purchases for the Series. Which can also be attributed to several other factors, not the least of which is the extremely low amount of Exclusive titles.

-those that do own a Series also face multiple negative factors

-The rolling back of the point based reward system on the digital store from a healthy 5-10% to a ridiculously low .5-.10% per purchase It is currently by FAR the worst purchase reward system of the 3 majors consoles

-given the large digital catalog most Series owners already have, the idiotically capped storage. Which is negatively effected oddly enough by the SMART Delivery system. While I am thankful for the smaller sizes on the Series S, once a title is upgraded to having a Series version, you have no option to opt out and play the Xbone version. Which in turn forces the file to be installed on the internal or expansion card instead of the external HD, which is much cheaper to upgrade. The most recent example being Fallout 4. Series X gets hit harder with much larger file sizes which negates the internal storage advantage. Releasing newer versions of the consoles with small increases to the internal SSD storage is insulting. Given the insistence on the Expansion card style, it seems obvious of the need to create an expandable bank for the slot. My storage has been at or near capped for nearly a year. With a 2g xpansion card and 4g external hd.

-finally the overall rep of Xbox has been heavily tarnished by the focus on acquisitions and subsequent layoffs or worse, closing of acquired studios. No one wants to be associated with that kind of predatory corporate behavior. Ironically, the Xbox rep is immensely worse than during the Xbone claw-back era 2015-2020.

@GamingFan4Lyf I was one of the people who was very much interested in buying a series X from when i first saw it. Ive owned 2 of the 3 previous generations Xbox. But it wasnt any of the reasons u listed that prevented me from buying. I didnt care how cross gen was handled. Also didnt feel like the feature set was so much better. Ur 3rd point is what im confused by? Cause you say they actually did come with games and not one remaster.
Ironically, my main reason for not buying a series X till now was that i felt Xbox distinctly didnt have many games for the first couple of years. Where Playstation did very well in that regard. So much so, that i could excuse the occasional 'directors cut'. Till now. There are only a few games, maybe 2, that i want to play on Xbox. They can market all they want. Advertising wouldnt convince me. Good games convince me

Shocking that an open program like this didn’t exist until now but I guess better late than never.

Imo they should work towards that any game that launches on PC can be ported to Xbox with minimal effort or just make the next Xbox a PC.

How much more work can it he to get a game on Xbox? Especially games like Dave the Diver or Pacific Drive.

@GamingFan4Lyf definitely merit to those that buy it for the exclusives, can't really knock the presentation of those games. as a FIFA CoD machine though, what a waste...

But to be fair I get a boat load more variety out of Xbox anyway, diving around from starfield to ori to persona to gears to psychonauts etc etc. has been a right breath of fresh air over all the overly serious paint by numbers exclusives on ps (got to give them astro bot though, looks amazing)

@GamingFan4Lyf pretty sure most any Kohls has game wear

@Secryt I mean, I have seen Nintendo stuff, sure - and generic "I'm a gamer" type clothes, but I have never seen PlayStation-specific clothes or Xbox-specific clothes.

It's basically all Nintendo-specific or generic "gaming".

I don't think the results will be what people think, specially for big companies.

Most companies, specially but not limited to Japan, don't even know how much potential Xbox have.

It is not that they think is not worth it or that the game won't sell, they just don't know at all how much potential the platform have.

That idea of games not selling on Xbox was proved false time and time again. It might not sell more than PS on copies per platform (which doesn't matter), but it has to make a profit for the publisher, and it does.

Big proof of this is Yakuza. Yakuza was for years released only on PS.

Sega released their titles on Xbox Game Pass and it was a huge success.

Yakuza games that are not on Game Pass also sold well.

At TGS another Yakuza game was announced for Xbox, that's a sign that the investment is worth it, it is profitable.

So any company that believes porting their game to Xbox will not bring profits, just talk to Sega and listen to what they have to say.

Believe it or not the thing that baffles me most is the classic arcade games Hamster only releases on PlayStation and Switch. I don’t understand why Xbox has been limited to the Neo Geo library! 🤷‍♂️

@GamingFan4Lyf All very true. That's the sad part. Xbox had the better product, the better service, and the better prices. And the market rejected it. I'm convinced that console gamers overall just aren't a group that thinks very much at all anymore. It's basically just Twitter. When you consider the majority of console gamers are just devotees of the big platform online games obsessed with paying to keep up with their friends, and are just followers that just do whatever everyone else does, it's not the most thoughtful group in terms of majority buyers. Compare to the start of last Gen when gamers revolted against matrick. Dunno if it's gamers or kids getting endlessly dumber despite seeming every academically more intelligent than anyone else ever. Maybe it's genius syndrome and all kids are geniuses. They can design rocket motors on a napkin but lock them in a room and they'll never figure out a way out.

The answer is and has always been install base. Microsoft has struggled MIGHTILY to give gamers a compelling reason to choose xbox, and making games is expensive so developers lean towards platforms that are likely to yield a profit.

@HonestHick one thing that kills me is the exclusivity of "face time". It's not like Android doesn't have video calls. Instead of a standard video call protocol for all phones we have this hideous proprietary system where Apple people can only video call Apple people and Android people can only video call Android people and if you need both you need two phones and two contracts. How has a universal third party video call app not replaced both yet?

Sales of Xbox or just APIs or whatever anything is possible with this program to aid/make clear why devs don't bother. Vita/Wii U it was clear why besides mobile. Sales & 3rd party laziness. But Indies still did so & made Wii U exclusives (if console I mean but still on mobile) those mobile devs. I bought a few for Wii U. Indies did great Wii U exclusives. Vita was a great home for Indies too.

I don't care for merch but makes sense like other commenter said. People wear it, hear it, have more than just Gamepass ads & individual game ads. The more it's visually/talked about IRL not just software space with ads/PCs/console itself the more it appears.

Gamepass trial via food promos I think it was pop tarts right? Seen Xbox consoles chance to win stuff on my Aussie Shapes.

Minecraft plushes & maybe stuff for other games but in terms of like for the Xbox brand itself I don't think I see it really. Just game merch so if Microsoft are just happy with any sales & going eh we get money regardless then that's a strategy?

People pick up band merch & think the logo looks cool even they may not even know the band & fans go eh your not a real fan so it's kind of annoying to not be able to strike up a conversation with them. But it still gets sales between gaps of things.

All I hear about is gamepass & what already know about Xbox brand on articles, community/how often I use my Xbox & see ads. Yet Xbox Shampoo or other stuff by USA Youtubers, I don't see any of those products at all in other countries or hear about any of it.

Why focus on your home so much besides games, where Xbox Shampoo in EU? Even a Windows Bobble head was probably enough besides word of mouth. But word of mouth only happens in certain circumstances.

Let alone assume they are wide spread in the world yet you see Nintendo clothes, cereal, bags, and gift boxes/subscription boxes offer random items that match the IP.

Same with Sony the symbol lights, shirts, mugs/cups. You just see it more. Microsoft just you don't see it. Maybe in EB/Gamestop but otherwise that's about it I guess. I always see the other brand everywhere to get their name out there, offer options for fans who want to buy that stuff (I couldn't care less I just want games, books or tv shows/movies, not into clothes, figures, pins, cups and of that branding but many people are so it works as a bit on the side for these companies).

If Nintendo can sell Mother 3 merch it says a lot when that IP other than virtual cosnole or more a thing in Japan besides the emulation community and 1 & 2 on offer digitally then yeah it says a lot that even niche IPs can get out there.

If Nintendo can revive Famicom Detective Club, Endless Ocean and more but still have Mario/Pokemon/Kirby and other merch and maybe lean into others over time they are getting more people to notice. Sony would the same.

Sony tried cellphone games, Ratchet comic/manga & sometimes other stuff for certain Ips but not as much I assume. You used to see some plush/keychains maybe back then very limited. Maybe it's more the case now I just don't see it or know for sure.

Nowadays I think they go more broader as they know they can sell their teen/adult audience to these sorts of merch or the logo on something.

Xbox don't see it. Odd person pick up games but that's it.

About time.
Hopefully behind the scenes, the process has already being going on...

I never get the doom and gloom some news sites try to paint with Xbox. I'd argue they're on a better path. And this generation has really shown that. There's more third party games on Xbox than ever including titles you'd never expect to see on the console. The Series S has really helped pushed sales to new users (not upgrades) and it hasn't really hurt. Again they still have MORE third party support than previous generations and the random comments on news sites (which themselves have controversies surrounding them) have resulted in 2 games being delayed on Xbox and not by long. Overall I'd argue that forcing optimization ESPECIALLY this generation is a godsend. I don't know what's been up with developers. Even with the exclusives going to other platforms, Xbox has had more than have had for a long while. Hands down their first party content library is popping. One reason I get the day one gamepass moving is because when game pass launched they had like one first party game a year (if that) and now there's so many that are slotted into that game pass day one promise. Not just their owned library, but they're reaching out more to publish and support games through XGS too. We've seen a lot of healthy changes at Xbox like this.

The way I see it paths are diverging. The console market isn't growing. Nintendo is okay with that and fine with staying about the same size as long as they control margins. Sony is slightly expanding to PC and overall increasing how much each individual PS user is worth (by jacking up prices) and Xbox is looking to expand and build an empire across platforms. Hopefully following this move they'll learn more ways to make Xbox the one gaming ecosystem to have.

I'd say we're seeing Microsoft support Xbox more than ever and seeing a bigger push from Xbox overall. I like moves like this. Though I don't expect immediate results. Xbox will be interesting to watch around their quarter of a century birthday. Especially with rumors of a new "generation" then (if we can even call it generations anymore with how this one has been).

@themightyant so as always it’s the most obvious answer.

@themightyant I don’t think it’s going to be just an Xbox thing going forward.

I posted something similar on PS regarding Star Wars, but people are now basically saying I’ll wait till it hits a sub service to play and so on.

Unfortunately without GP backing many smaller games get overlooked by the masses.

Developers who skip Xbox do it because sales are going the pointless way on this platform.

The sales are going the way they do because of Gamepass, AND because more and more gamers are leaving for other platforms.

They're leaving because Xbox is going multi platform, which is an aberration.

There. Xbox know the truth now.

(And I'm saying all that as an Xbox fan who still plays mostly on his Series X)

@NEStalgia Some people use things like Zoom and other apps. I rarely video call anyone on video, but i do prefer the Apple apps to googles. So again i would never switch. It’s not a hassle was my point both google and apple have software that makes switching phones super easy and task free.

Because of the lies in 2020.
https://x.com/aarongreenberg/status/1258378640087060481

Aaron Greenburg talking about series x, "60fps will be the standard output, but the architecture allows us to support up to 120fps."

Series s is why cartoony downgraded Avowed will not be 30fps when it launches next year. OF COURSE it will get a 60fps performance mode after launch for series x and then even later for series s.

But the series s version won't be ready for launch, and it's going to look horrendous. They can't release a series x only 60fps mode on a 1st party game, because then they lied in 2020 about series having the exact same visuals as series x games but "only the resolution will be different".

Plus, before release, they CAN NOT show a 60fps version of the game running on series s. It will be the laughing stock of the games industry and the game will burn to the ground before it even launches.

To sum up
1, The 60fps has to come later as an "extra" feature, long after anyone cares about it.
2, Series x can't launch with a 60fps performance mode if series s doesn't have one.
3, series s 60fps mode footage at launch/prelaunch will be the detriment to the game's marketing.
This is exactly what happened with Starfield's 60fps modes after reassuring from the devs the consoles couldn't do it.

What a horrible predicament to be in. And these are 1st party games. Why would 3rd party studios want to have to deal with this complete and utter mess???
And remember, like a lot of their games, this game is still coming nearly half a decade by the time it's going to launch.

Is that a good and logical sound way of looking at why a developer would want to avoid making games for Xbox this gen? Or will yous just flag it as "trolling" or ignore all these carefully explained points?

@NEStalgia My ex was an Apple guy. I'm on Android. We videocalled using WhatsApp. It worked so much better than Zoom.

When the XBOX company was running by a monkey, don't expect the 3rd party publisher will trust XBOX.

Obviously low sales and low play time judging basic achievement stats in most games and one of the worst storefront and review systems. On top of the store being flooded with shovelware 24/7.
It's pretty obvious xbox has not been a huge priority to ms for a few years.

@HonestHick I can get preferring note taking an productivity apps, and I also don't really video call outside my PC for productivity stuff, but I still think it's absurd that it's not a standard protocol, that video calling can only work to call someone of the same brand platform. Imagine if AT&T customers could only call other AT&T customers, and if you want to call a Verizon customer you need a separate Verizon phone. That's how the video calling works and it's so stupid.

And there's not much to prefer about one app or the other, it's a video player with a hang up button.

@Ralizah Yeah the third party apps like Whatsapp exist, but you'd think at this point that would just be the default rather than weird proprietary apps you can only call people who use the same brand of phone. Like, I know Apple is a cult, but do Apple people seriously only ever communicate with other Apple people? Do they all wear the same clothes and order the same coffee at the same coffee chain together?

@andrewsqual Of course, since you owned them before and played on another platform. We're talking about new players, people who already played those games before have no reason to play it again.

As Phil said, the problem is last gen PS4 was the main console of choice and it was the generation folks really bought into digital. They did exactly what you'd expect and stayed where their games library was still available.

If folks friends play on PS, it's likely they will also buy a PS to play with them. Then this expands.

Series consoles do a lot of things really well and give good value. But getting people to walk away from what they own to start again just isn't that easy. And the longer it goes on, the harder and less likely it will be.

I think a large part is self inflicted. Pushing Game Pass so people don’t buy games anymore, larger PS5 install base and insisting on parity with the S.

@NEStalgia Yeah i agree, i mean of all the features Google and Apple have that i do like, i could care less about a video chat call app. I rarely to ever use it. Now there are some apps and features on my iPhone i couldn’t live without. There are some on Android i like as well. But a video chat? Thats just not exciting to me.

@WildConcept6 Right. In any case, most of the doom and gloom is painted by Sony fans or click hunters. Xbox is stronger than ever on the market because of their active users, subscribers, the sales on console and Windows (including Steam) and the addition of ABK. With a couple of dull sequels and remasters of remasters, I don't know how can anyone talk so positively about the PS5 catalogue, unless it's their first PS, but of course most console players are playing Minecraft, Call of Duty, Fifa (FC), Madden, Fortnite and GTA V. For console gamers, there is no better value than Xbox: free remasters, free enhanced backwards compatibility, FPS Boost, better pricing, Game Pass, Quick Resume, Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos... so it's weird when they use Sony or Nintendo as a paradigm. That fandom and brand power are persistent, but Xbox is all right. I think that the future of the three console brands will be tied to PC and Cloud somehow and Xbox is already there.

As a developer and a studio about to release a game, I can tell you specifically why we're not targeting Xbox. Game pass isn't a good deal for indie devs. Simple, we don't want o be Ina. Subscription service and risk losing lots of money. Also, we're not seeing the innovation with your box. Instead of doing things to make your box a specific place to play, Your open to pc. If I'm making the game on pc , why waste extra money to put it on Xbox in a subscription Service? I have tons of ideas of how you could turn your fortunes around but your in a situation where your a platform holder but are you a publisher? If your a publisher your not doing a good job of people keeping their job. I don't want my game to fail and don't want to feel like one of the many people who lost their job and company because of your decisions.sorry but not taking thay risk. Also stop chasing money, money money will come but you
The series s, isn't appeasing.

@Banjo- It feels like a combination of two things
1) By old traditional metrics, Xbox is doing the worst of the bunch and Xbox's current strategy is very counter to the set traditional way a console brand is supposed to compete. A really awful way if you ask me which was established by the old guard. People see Xbox expanding as a loss. They see Xbox putting exclusives on another platforms as an admission of defeat. They're really stuck in the idea of console wars which were always poison to me.

The problem with that is the old ways of competing a kinda trash. And it's insane to me how much consumers cling to them? Like if you take a step back it makes a LOT of sense why the common person doesn't want to get into the nonsense of consoles. Let's take exclusives for example. Is the privelege of being able to buy a particular game really going to draw in new users? Especially third party exclusives which were wildly inconsistent on what platforms they'd launch on and be exclusive for. People today complain about needing certain video subscription services to keep up with their favorite franchises and they're feeling really burnt out from that, but in that case they can still access any subscription service across all platforms or any device they own. I can't imagine how daunting exclusives and knowing how exclusives works has made getting into console gaming. Like imagine trying to turn someone on to SMT and explaining how they have exclusives across generations of PS and Nintendo consoles (some of which have had their storefronts taken down (which is another big issue of backwards compatibility having traditionally been a tossup because "we believe in generations")). Who truly wants to get into that? 🤢 Console gaming would have been a lot bigger a long time ago if everything was consistently available everywhere. Platforms shouldn't have ever competed on the privelege to buy certain games, but the overall experiences they offered.

2) I think it's partly copium. As long as Xbox is doing bad people can ignore reality. And the reality is that nearly 20 years later the Nintendo Switch is the only console to reach the peak (ps2 sales) which isn't even a high number... in a longer life cycle btw. In about 8 year life cycles consoles can't even break 200m individually. All together they can't even break 500m (I'm pretty sure not even 400m if we're being generous, the PS4 clocked out at about 120m, the Xbox One around 50m, and we'll give the switch 150m for easy math... big oof; adding current Xbox X|S and PS5 sales gives us only like 100m more to be generous with which is still a good amount under 500m). That's really not good. Consoles were meant to be a gateway to gaming, but became an enthusiasts device. Singing Nintendo's praises actually for a moment, their success recently isn't because of exclusives but instead accessibility. Same with the Wii and DS. The Switch isn't just easy to pick up and okay, it's so easy it has a second controller attached to it. It has fun and fun with friends/family at its core. But even that isn't enough.

@Banjo-
If you look at the current industry, gaming is rough and the console market is really stagnating. However, in that time... Xbox has largely just taken advantage and massively grown. Yes they have engaged in layoffs themselves some due to the changing economy but overall they've grown massively. A lot of the layoffs weren't even due to the economy but basic growing pains after big acquisitions and redundancies. I don't think people fully understood that after a company absorbs another, the remaining entity is smaller than if you just added both together. ABK and Zenimax didn't sell because they saw growth in the future and Microsoft didn't do a hostile take over. Both were for profit corporations whose shareholders or otherwise board wanted out because they didn't see infinite future growth. Heck, reportedly Zenimax's leaders had tried selling the company to EA and ABK straight up approached Microsoft/Xbox who just couldn't ignore that deal. The layoffs are still terrible for the individual workers affected and I was really personally worried when Tango was reported as closing, but overall Xbox has grown. A lot. They were given the opportunity to absorb two companies whose leaders saw future turmoil and less growth, and took them to become a behemoth.

I'm not that concerned for Xbox and I support them because it seems like they're doing what they can to break down the barriers that have made console gaming so daunting and difficult to be a part of in the first place. I don't see day and date on PC with cross saves as a reason not to buy a console. Rather it's one of the ones why I still play on console at all.

Nintendo I feel like will always be fine with what success they can get, which isn't bad. Chasing massive growth comes with it's own demerits. I mean costs being out of control is a huge problem in the industry right now. But overall I'd be very curious at how Sony and PS would be viewed if Xbox truly wasn't in the picture or gamers hadn't subscribed to this ridiculous idea of console wars. Pushing increasingly expensive products on their stagnate user base isn't super healthy behavior. Rather in business you learn what Sony is doing right now is more indicative of them having given up on the market. And they have reason to. They peaked in sales with the ps2 and haven't been able to consistently reach more customers since. They tried the live service and mobile game and that fizzled out BAD. PC is their best hope at this point but they're still dragging their feet.

Microsoft was right in the Xbox One generation (they just desperately needed better execution). Gaming doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's just a form of entertainment and consoles need to convince people that it's better value to spend time being entertained on their platform than it is an Apple TV, Roku, video streaming, Smart Phone, Laptop, etc., and they just haven't. The overall console consumer base has stayed the same and people barley even switch platforms. Consoles and gaming overall needs to be more accessible and open if they want to continue to grow. There's a reason why mobile is rhe biggest gaming platform. Whether we "hardcore console gamers" like it or not.

@NEStalgia I mean just putting it out there, this is pretty much just a US problem. In other countries they (third party apps) ARE the defacto messaging and voice/video calling apps. Like in Europe pretty much everyone uses WhatsApp and in Japan it's Line and in South Korea it's Kakao and so on. At the end of the day it comes down to marketing. I mean it's really on topic actually. In the US, Apple managed to (and pushed) the idea of 1) Apple Vs Android and 2) Apple as a status device. Realistically there isn't that much difference between the two operating systems and Android has far more variety because every non Apple phone manufacturer uses it. I'd also argue any day Android has basic features Apple lacks and is far more consumer friendly. None of that matters. What matters is that Apple has managed to weaponize their fan base (especially in the US). They push imessage and FaceTime HARD in the states and aggressively. They shame Android users for not having access to their "superior" messaging and video calling technology (when there are third party alternatives many could argue have better features). The made the color of your chat bubble into a social status when the reality is android users have the freedom to change their chat color bubbles to whatever they want and Apple is the one limiting their users for some psychological game. This is also why Apple dragged their foot for the longest on rcs messaging. They very intentionally have made being an Apple user into a lifestyle (or perhaps more accurately like being a cult member) than just a consumer. From a marketing and business perspective, it's genius but from an individual and ethical perspective it's rather insidious. Like they literally have actual psychologist helping them figure how they can best trap and exploit their users.

Three brilliant comments. The fear of missing out is so powerful and yet so absurd. I am patient because my backlog is huge. If certain games don't ever come to an specific console, I'll resort to PC, but it would probably be for games developed for old consoles. Third-party exclusives were wildly inconsistent, indeed. It kind of made some sense where consoles were something new, but now? Using Square Enix as an example, Octopath Traveller was everywhere but PS, Octopath Traveller II was everywhere but Xbox and eventually both were made available everywhere. Final Fantasy XVI is coming to Windows and then Xbox and the VII trilogy will be on Xbox eventually along with every other entry, but Sony and Square Enix thought it was a good idea for a while. It wasn't. That has been used as deceptive marketing and some fans still defend that. Like you said, they complain about streaming services not including everything, but they can pay one month and not change devices if they want to watch something else. Paying for excluding third-party games from an specific platform seems illegal in this part of the world and it will probably be, eventually.

Leaving the console wars behind is the future. Xbox realised that and now Sony knows that whatever they try, they won't be be able to reach their objectives, so they copy Xbox now. Sony has tried absolutely everything this generation: from "we believe in generations" to all games being cross-generation, from cinematic sequels to their own version of Fortnite, from console exclusives to Windows ports, from mobile attempts to the most expensive PS ever. Nintendo has been very lucky because of the massive success of Switch and because those full-priced Wii U ports were very lucrative. It seems that Nintendo could be an independent thing indefinitely or at least for longer than any other, but with so many young players on mobile, PC and handheld computers, not even they can assume that people will be hoarding hardware and paying extra for the privilege in the near future.

@WildConcept6 Yep, all known and agreed (Though I didn't realize the rest of the world didn't have that same experience. I didn't know Whatsapp was standard in EU, and I thought Line was only texting, not voice/video.

I use Apple products on occasion, mostly old cheap phones to use for music players and the like. Mostly because some apps only exist on it, or are only stable on it while crashing all the time on Android because the maintainers just don't care about non-Apple (looks at SiriusXM.) But yeah otherwise, I wouldn't touch Apple with a 100ft pole for all those reasons. And it makes me sad watching both Sony and Nintendo try to become like Apple.

That's easy answer.

The Series S. It's a huge mistake.

The forced and required console parity between Series X and S is straight nightmare. No one really wants deal with it unless absolutely have to.

@GamingFan4Lyf They could be Playstation just because the controller. Only reason, and I do mean ONLY reason, I not have PS5 is the controller. The centered sticks, shoulder button placement, overall design, I despise that controller with every ounce my life.

Have Series X and Switch. But no PS5. And yet to find a PS5 wireless controller with Xbox design that is not insanely overpriced. That's a market someone is missing out on. Affordable wireless PS5 controllers with Xbox design layout. Be huge seller I believe.

@NEStalgia Yeah, so when I studied abroad in Europe that was literally one of the first things you did. Download what'sapp. And if you met new people that's how you communicated. Line is everything. They even have games on the platform and buying stickers is huge which you can then trade. I'm in Japan right now and on a phone plan here. So unlimited talk and text isn't really a thing. Unlimited data also isn't really common. Most phone plans give a mid to high data cap (like 25gb to 50gb) but you'll still get charged some change per outgoing call or message (it's free if someone calls or texts you). There are options and other ways around it, but for the most part yeah. That's another reason why line is so huge. Imessage and FaceTime would get around it (and apple is also big in Japan), but mms and phone calling literally costs money. So it just makes sense for everyone to use line with friends.

Everyone wants to be Apple and it's the worst thing ever. I really hate apple for being a case study on how much you can screw over your customers and they'll still worship you like the second coming of Christ. Take the headphone jack for example. Taking it out didn't do much to improve on the phone internally. They'll say it did but it wasn't exactly a huge port. But it made it cheaper to make and more importantly helped push their far more expensive Bluetooth headphones. And at first Android manufacturers collectively made fun of Apple, but then they realized people were not only continuing to buy iPhones but eating up their expensive air pods (and no matter what you say, for the sound quality a difference of "free" (came with a new iPhone) to $150 to $250 is substantial). So then they all did the same. The same with packaging phones without a charging block. In see this in every other business as well. Apple has a complete lock down on their products controlling both the hardware and software with a tightly enclosed ecosystem for consumers and harsh restrictions for developers while bleeding everyone dry. They're literally a gang family dressed as a business and it's what every for profit corporation in the history of the world wants. I'm rather grateful they're starting to get cracked down on by governments. It really is unfortunate how happily people eat up such blatantly anti consumer practices.

@GamingFan4Lyf Few years ago, Microsoft annually put out an Xbox onesie. They were awesome! I'd buy two or three every year. Kind of annoyed not released one for couple years.

@GuyinPA75 I must have ideal hand size or something because I have only been bothered once by a controller in over 36 years of gaming across consoles:

The Switch Joy-Con cramp my hand if I play too long with it. Dark Souls Remastered was a nightmare on the Joy-Con when I didn’t have access to my Pro Controller.

I have switched to PC where I use the Xbox Controller to play Sony games. 👍

But, to me, a controller is a controller.