Topic: Pure Xbox Game Club - Halo 2 (Nov)

@KilloWertz hey, kinda like @themightyant said it's a great story but my personal disappointment with the game was that is was a movie with poor gameplay in between. I've also played walking sims and enjoyed them, guardians was just off. A Plagues Tale for example had a good story and cutscenes but it was still a game with cutscenes vs cutscenes with a bit of game, that make more sense? It just felt disappointing trying to play the game and just ending up watching a movie i guess.

@themightyant @Krzzystuff I'll just respond with both together again as I'd likely just repeat parts of it if I responded individually.

Anyways, it's as if both of you considered the fact that they had cinematics in the game, which a bunch of games do, as a negative even though the game had a great story. Obviously Krzzy more so, but still, I'd only consider that a negative if the story was either bad or was told badly. I can only imagine what either of you would think of a Kojima game. That was my thought process at the time, especially after the whole walking sim jab as well.

If the main reason for it is because you thought the gameplay was bad, and if the gameplay was as good as a Sony exclusive it would have been a far different experience for you, then ok I suppose. Still, the criticism should be about the gameplay only, not the amount of cutscenes. That was more directed towards Krzzy as I see that much wasn't the case with Mightyant. The whole walking sim jab at the game is probably why I ended up including you too last night, @themightyant.

@Krzzystuff I agree with a lot of this. I'm still on chapter 7 so a ways to go but I just can't get into the groove at all!! I don't think I've ever played a game that would have been more suited to being an animated movie or a tell tale game than this one. If they ever do a sequel, they need to do a fair bit of work on the combat and puzzles. I will definitely finish it, its just going to take some time

@KilloWertz I'd love to hear about what you liked in the game and what you didn't.

Re: Cinematics. I definitely don't mind long cutscenes when done well, but that wasn't the problem here. One of the issues I had was the lack of BALANCE between gameplay and cinematics.

You mention Kojima. (I love his games by the way - though, like most auteurs, his self indulgent writing needs to be dialled in a bit, just like mine 😜) But the key difference is his games have a much better balance between gameplay and story. Often Kojima breaks boundaries within his gameplay; whether it be using cigarettes to find laser beams in the original Metal Gear on NES, or Psycho mantis reading your memory card and having to change controller port to player 2 in MGS, or actually having to balance as you move forward rather than just pushing forward on the stick for X hours in Death Stranding. The gameplay is a key part of the game that ADDS to the experience, and it means his games wouldn't be as immersive in any other medium. With GOTG I felt the gameplay actually dragged the game down rather than improving it and as @Krzzystuff said it could just have easily been a different medium like a movie.

You may feel differently, that's all good. Room for many different opinions.

Post Script @Krzzystuff Good shout on A Plagues Tale. Quite similar in a lot of ways, but definitely better balance of gameplay vs story. Looking forward to that sequel, Asobo are wizards!

@KilloWertz not sure we'll be able to see eye to eye here. Cutscenes aren't an issue, the length of them is. To me personally this should have been an animated movie. I've never played a Kojima game so if this is what his games are like i wouldn't like them. I gave an example of a Plagues Tale....has cutscenes abd a story....but I still play 90% of the game. Guardians was like 30%-40% gameplay.. and it wasn't the best gameplay.

@themightyant I actually liked almost everything about the game. I loved the story and had no problem with the way it was told. I also found the banter to be mostly golden. I will say the combat was easily it's weakest point, amounting to almost nothing more than just randomly throw out abilities and eventually beating everybody. There were a few encounters, namely major boss battles, that required actually strategy, but overall I would agree that the combat could have been better. Hopefully that's something they work on if there is a sequel. The huddles also amounted to nothing more than a way to replenish your shields and get temporary invulnerability, but I shrugged that off as it was helpful for the combat even if it was pointless story wise.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as saying you and Krzzy are wrong, as obviously not everybody will agree on everything. I just will never understand or agree with the complaint about there being too many cinematics and not enough gameplay. The gameplay itself needed improvement? Sure, but possibly my favorite game of all time (Metal Gear Solid 4) has a roughly hour and a half ending. The gameplay is obviously better, but a more modern example of a game having a far worse ratio of cutscenes (and length) to gameplay would be Yakuza: Like a Dragon. You play for roughly 10-15 minutes, then sit there through a cutscene that could last 30-45 minutes.

@Krzzystuff We definitely will never see eye to eye here. Like I just said above, there are games that have far worse of a ratio like Yakuza: Like a Dragon. I couldn't make it through the game as all I was doing was sitting through lengthy cutscene after lengthy cutscene with parts of it being voiced and then it randomly finishing them with text and the characters making dumb sound effects to make them seem like they're talking.

There had to be some expectation that the game would have it's story told like a movie in a sense given that there are two Guardians of the Galaxy movies. My main issue is that I will never agree that the ratio of cutscene length to gameplay was so high that it was like a walking sim. While I will say again that I'm not trying to force you into liking the game as much as I did, I will never be able to comprehend how somebody can criticize the storytelling of a game that had one of the best stories of the year for a game (or any form of media) last year. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Carry on with your explicit material.

@KilloWertz ROFL an hour and a half cutscene at the end of the game???? That's a movie not a cutscene. I would be pissed as i play at night and I'd have to skip it for sleep. But yes, agree to disagree is our outcome.

@KilloWertz That's one of the reasons why I love playing games on PS4 as it has rest mode so if a cutscene goes on for too long, I can just pause the game, put the system in rest mode and resume the cutscene the day after. I've been doing that with Judgment on PS4 now and while that game doesn't have that long cutscenes, I just don't feel like spending too much time watching a cutscene anymore since my time is more limited now.

I can't imagine trying to get through MGS4's 1.5 hour long ending in one sitting today on PS3. I'm glad I played through that game back when I had more free time.

(As a side note, I know that XB1 has rest mode as well but I don't use it anymore since it can sometimes prevent achievements from unlocking and I'd rather not have my time wasted like that)

@LtSarge Yeah, I do that as well on the PS5. I have it set not to do downloads automatically in rest mode unless I want to download something overnight, so I just do that if I can't get to a save point when I'm playing before work or something like that. Obviously the Series X has Quick Resume, but still, I still like being able to basically pause the game via Rest Mode on the PS4/PS5 as well.

I knew it was going to be that going in, so I made sure to play the final part of the game on a night where I knew I had enough time to finish the game and watch the whole ending. Like I said, it was an experience, but in a positive way for me obviously since I said it might be my favorite game of all time.

@Krzzystuff Like I said above, I knew it was that going in, so I planned accordingly. Yes, moving on...

@KilloWertz Great to hear you're view on the game, there are no wrong opinions, we all like different things. But I actually think our viewpoints aren't a million miles apart, we basically liked and disliked many of the same things, just some more or less than each other.

Completely agree the banter was golden I didn't want it to end, and as I said in my review, want a sequel to continue on these characters stories. Also agree the huddles were poorly implemented, but ultimately thought they were worthwhile as they started the awesome 80s soundtrack (a big Win) and marginally improved the combat by giving you unlimited team skills and making battles shorter. lol

Just to clear up two things. I never said there was a problem with too many cinematics, I said the problem for me was the balance between cutscenes and gameplay because the gameplay was a weak point. Unlike @Krzzystuff I don't mind long cutscenes in some games like this (I have a MGS4 story, I'll tell at the end). If the gameplay was a little more engaging then I wouldn't have minded so much but it often just felt like drudgery, I was usually actually waiting for the cutscenes, or banter and next bit of character building or plot exposition as they were the best bits.

Also re: walking simulators (Which I like when done well) I initially said that more as joke, suggesting GOTG would have been better as a walking simulator. What I meant was it would skip the bits I didn't enjoy, like the combat and exploration. This, in my eyes at least, would have improved the game! (FYI it's still a bit of a joke)

Back to MGS4. The first time I played it I had about 3 hours before I had to leave for a late night flight, I really wanted to finish it before going on holiday. I played about 2 hours and finished the game and thought i'd be done in plenty of time, but every minute that ending went on I was getting more and more worked up that I would miss my flight. Eventually I just turned it off and left without seeing it all and had to catch up on the ending later on Youtube, it's Biblical in length. It rivals Xenogears mid-game disc swap 90 minute exposition dump.

@themightyant True, we aren't as far off as it seemed. I think the whole walking sim comment got to me more than it should have, as overall I did enjoy the game even better than you did since it would have been a Game of the Year candidate for me (likely still goes to Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart, but still a candidate). Krzzy and I are much further away, but oh well in the end.

That is true, and is something I forgot about. Having some of those 80's songs playing while you're in the middle of a heated battle was pure gold and not something I thought I'd ever do in a game.

That makes more sense now. You technically didn't mind the cutscenes, it was mainly the gameplay that disappointed you. Fair enough. While I liked everything else enough to not let the gameplay drag the experience down, I still found the combat entertaining enough even if it was short of good to allow the overall package to be a really good experience for me.

That is kind of a shame that the ending had to kind of be ruined, at least at the time. Obviously that kind of stuff isn't for everyone, but like I said, the game and even the ending were quite an experience if you don't mind epically lengthy cutscenes. Somebody from work told me ahead of time, but obviously you wouldn't have expected something like that otherwise. I even got a phone call in the middle of it, and I basically told the person I couldn't talk then because I was watching the ending to Metal Gear Solid 4. It was one of the first games after Heavenly Sword that I had played on my PS3 after buying the MGS4 PS3 bundle mid-generation, and it was my first time experiencing a lot of their epic exclusives (even though I owned a PS1 and PS2), so that at least partially explains why it's such a big deal for me.

@KilloWertz Glad you enjoyed the game so much. Still got to get to Rift Apart, but I've liked all the Ratchet games so i'm sure i'll enjoy it when I eventually get round to it... but then I've still got to finish Ghost of Tsushima and I didn't even start Last of Us II, FF7 Remake or Persona 5 yet. Often a few years behind especially on PS. Whereas Game Pass makes me prioritise the exclusives a bit more when they are just added to you library!

@themightyant Well, now we see where PS stands with you even though it's first in your avatar.

I'm going to try to not bounce around my PlayStation and my Xbox so much this generation like I did in the last one. Despite Game Pass, my PS5 is my priority this gen (so far). I know that means I'll miss out on some games on Game Pass, but I'd rather do that than miss out on some other bigger games by constantly bouncing back and forth and not really making much progress on either console's library. Yeah, I know there's the occasional indie gem on Game Pass, but oh well. If I've played an indie game off of Game Pass lately, it's been on the side to get achievements for Microsoft Rewards things.

I will get cracking on this today.

First? I guess that depends on your perspective. Hebrew, Arabic and dozens of other languages read from right to left. Many Asian languages including some traditional forms of Chinese, Japanese, Korean & Vietnamese read top to bottom, some right to left and some left to right. A few languages even read top to bottom... PC master race bias confirmed 🤪

But seriously I really don't have a preference, they've all got their pros, cons and series I love, I'll play wherever there are good games. But the reality is 90% of my game time is Xbox and PlayStation right now as my Steam rig is aging and I prefer to play on TV anyway. On cross platform games it depends on price, performance and what side of bed I got out on. Last gen I played more on PS4, the one before 360, this gen a little more Series X due to Game Pass.

@frabbit @djshep1973 i've added you both to the tag list as requested. Welcome!

@jarvismp @TooBarFoo @xMightyMatt14x @rjejr hey peeps, did you want to be added to the tag list for this?

Could I be able to be added to the tag list too? @ralphdibny

Just doing the admin on this group, looks like we are currently at a 3 way tie for next month's game...

With 2 votes a piece, Trek to Yomi, Mass Effect (1) Legendary Edition and Dead Space are vying for first place.

Hopefully some more votes come in to tip the scales!

@FraserG i have added you to the tag list!

@Krzzystuff @KilloWertz @themightyant @LtSarge

I thought I would weigh in on the cut scene debate with some random thoughts and comparable anecdotes....

I really don't mind and also like/love cutscenes in games if it fits the game. There are loads of different types of games, some veer toward movies and some veer toward pure gameplay. I am not really fussed which end of the spectrum they are on as long as I really like the total package it offers. Having said that, I would much prefer all games have the option to pause cutscenes but there is always that uncertainty about whether pressing Start will skip the cutscene or pause the cutscene so ya never actually want to try!

I used to watch loads of movies in my late teens/early twenties, then a lot more TV series in my mid-late twenties and nowadays I much prefer playing games. I think its because I need my body to be occupied as well as my mind and games offer that. I wish there was something productive I could do with my hands that doesn't require the attention I would be giving to a movie or a TV show but unfortunately there isn't so my entertainment time normally goes toward gaming. That being said, if my body is tired then I will be more inclined to watch films or TV shows and likewise, if my mind is tired then I might be more inclined to play a more gamey game like Forza Horizon or something.

On MGS...I think it is no secret that it is my absolute favourite number one game series. That includes everything I have played in the series, the 2D games, the 3D games and some of the spin offs (including Survive which I didn't like too much but really isn't as bad of a game as some would have you believe). I absolutely don't mind sitting around for hours watching archival footage with Liquid Snake's voice over, listening to Big Boss gush over his gun fetish, ringing up Mei Ling on the codec a million times until she gets annoyed at me, generally just anything that furthers and expands the lore whether its a gameplay addition or a tape recording. Maybe, just maybe I could have done with less tapes to listen to in Peace Walker (yes I listened to every single one) and I could probably do with a bit less of Jack and Rose's will they/wont they love dramas (though my interest in that piqued with the developments in MGS4 and Rising).

With regards to MGS4's final cut scene. I just loved the entire game when I first played it and I don't remember anything feeling too long. I played it again as part of a larger marathon of all the MGS games during the pandemic and still didn't feel any different. Except, (it's not quite as harrowing as having to stop to get a plane) the pandemic marathon was partly because I wanted to play them all again but also because I wanted to show them to my partner (yes, she is a very patient person). Unfortunately the finale of MGS4 coincided with dinner time and I was fairly sure there was a mid/end credits scene (there is and its glorious). It suffices to say that I ended up with a very grumpy and hungry girlfriend that night.

Before I replayed the game, I actually couldn't remember any actual pure gameplay and levels from MGS4. All I could remember was what it added to the overall story of the series. I was surprised by what game actually exists in the title when I replayed it. Theres not a whole lot of it to be honest, if you could skip the cut scenes then I suspect you could probably finish the whole game in like 4-6 hours.

It was interesting how the finale played with the game/movie combination as well, especially one of my favourite bits, the radiation corridor . It was epic how the struggle for Snake to get through it mirrored your difficulty with actually using the analog stick to get him to move. I suppose it is not far off how most of the Uncharted games play during their scripted set-pieces. That is another series that I absolutely adore!

I promise I am not a sadist but my partner and I actually listened to all those Peace Walker tapes together as well. They contained too much story to just skip and I wanted her to have the full picture before we moved into MGSV. However, I didn't make her sit through me S-Ranking all those tank missions - I think I probably would be single by now if I did that.

On sleeping while gaming.... I actually have two notable (and possibly not very interesting) stories that I may have told before. One time, I remember, I must have been about 17/18 years old. I was playing The Godfather Blackhand Edition on the Wii. I fell asleep while playing it and a constant and loud car horn noise woke me up some time later. There I was in bed, Wii remote and nunchuck in hand. I look up at the TV to see my car crashed into a building.

The second story, maybe a couple of years later, my friend and I played a lot of Fifa 2000 on the PS1 (despite the fact it was about ten years old at that point). I hate football but I love that game and it is basically the only Fifa game I will play because it is really arcade-y and a fun game. He was a football fan so we met in the middle with this game. Anyway, it was about 1am and we had been drinking all night and for some reason decided to play a real time 90 minute game against each other. We were drunk and kept falling asleep. I would sort of wake up every now and then, score a few goals, fall back to sleep, then he would wake up, score a few goals and fall asleep and so on. I think when we both opened our eyes for the final score, it was about 32-30. Then we went to sleep properly.

On Yakuza: Like a Dragon... I am actually playing that game now and the cut scenes are nowhere near as egregious as previous Yakuza entries. I am actually thankful that they added the press A to skip the line of dialogue option for the fully voiced cut scenes. I don't need to hear the full Japanese audio once I have read the subtitles but sometimes I will stick around for it if it looks like it is going to be a really emotional bit. One thing the older games did better though is that when there was an important action in the scene, it was unskippable by merely pressing A. In Like a Dragon, sometimes key actions in a cut scene are tied to a bit of dialogue so occasionally I accidentally skip past a character getting shot and I am like wtf just happened?

For those who really dislike cut scenes... Perhaps you may be glad that you never experienced this monstrosity on the Mega CD (i think? possibly the Saturn). It was literally just 3 episodes of Power Rangers with button inputs overlayed onto the image...

And thats pretty much all I have to say lol. This my first administrative post from a computer and I enjoyed the verbosity that a computer keyboard has afforded me though I am sure you have all hated it! (I may edit this post on my phone and add a laughing emoji) (Edit: 🤣)

@WCB @TooBarFoo @SeriousSatan added! and welcome to the thread!

@ralphdibny cheers!