Talking Point: Should Xbox Make A Revised Controller With Haptic Feedback?

no, just give me hall effect sensors

Short answer yes, long answer yes.

If they won’t do it, at least make the controller not feel as cheap, it’s so light and airy and clicky. Just doesn’t feel well made at all.

No. I got tired of it extremely fast. It got in the way of me doing an action quickly and, many times, it just made no sense at all to even have it on. like in scarlet nexus, the heck do i want resistance on the trigger when i'm trying to just grab something to throw mid string.

edit: put gyro in these pads already.

I like the rumble on the dualsence (and joycons), but the triggers are horrible for playing difficult games (as I do alot) they get in the way and make it harder to play. The worst sin a controller can commit

Not only that, but on my first dualsence the LT broke and went floppy, and just the other week when finishing the platinum for Ragnarok, on the replacement controller the LT and RT are floppy and broken. They are not well made at all, build quality is shocking

Luckily last week the dualsence and ps5 were on sale, so I got a bit of a deal on a starlight blue replacement. Cant see it lasting more than a year at most.

I have both and the PS5 controller seams at least to me more like a gimmick. I like the Xbox one better and I think it is more ergonomical.

@Kaloudz If they did that....I would be all over it. It be deemed the best controller ever. Yes I'm biased. Love the Dreamcast and its STILL the best console imo.

MS needs to fix Xbox controller in general. It is so stiff and clicky, with what at least to me feels like a terrible D-pad.
Haptics from DualSense are needed (I am unable to enjoy racing games without em anymore) but there are larger problems at play.

Microsoft needs something but doesn’t need to rip off dual sense (which is a fantastic controller)

Maybe some sort of mini LCD screen??

It's more like, I think PS needs to make a controller with proper stick placement, and Xbox needs to worry about gyros a lot more than haptic feedback.

No. Unless you can switch it off.

I know that Sony like to crow about haptic feedback, but it really isn't all that impressive in my opinion, it is just different to the Xbox controller. I really disliked it when playing the Horizon games. I didn't think it added anything meaningful at all.

@UBERSICKO exactly what I was going to say to. I can't be bothered about haptic feedback or even the adaptive triggers on my ps5. Just a gimmick in my opinion

Xbox is my favorite controller. Just continually progress the sticks and triggers.

Haptic feedback is cool and all, but gyroscopic aiming and Hall effect joysticks are better. Hall effect triggers are pretty cool too.

I love the xbox series x controller I can't complain at all I ain't that much of a fan or haptic feedback I don't like the triggers for the ps5 to be honest

I’d much rather they add Gyros in. Haptics are for everyone but Gyros help people play better.

Meh, I am not too fussed about haptics.

It was neat at first on Switch with HD Rumble, but eventually just "faded into the background".

The DualSense was a nice upgrade compared to Nintendo's implementation, but, again, it just "faded into the background".

So, yeah, I couldn't really care less because it's just something that eventually goes unnoticed.

Not bothered. I feel the Duel Sense adds nothing to how a game feels or plays 99% of the time and their controllers are as bad as the Switch now with drift. Astro Bot was super fun, that’s the only game I can say I enjoyed the controllers features. One game out of thousands. I can do without that I think.

No thank you. Much preferred if they had motion controls as they can add a bit of tight movements when aiming

@PsBoxSwitchOwner ‘If they won’t do it, at least make the controller not feel as cheap, it’s so light and airy and clicky. Just doesn’t feel well made at all.’

I don’t think it feels cheap, to me it’s the most comfortable of the 2 controllers. The simpler design is a bonus I feel, less problems, everyone I know has had some sort of issue with their duel sense controllers from drift to the springs in the triggers snapping.

Without doubt.
Dual sense is the best controller on the market.
Copy away Microsoft.

I'd like to feel the haptics for myself before I can say anything. But I think it would be nice. I have a dual sence controller, but I use it on PC and haven't played a game that supports it yet.

Yes they should !
With better battery life than the dual sense.

Even when utilized well on ps5 it still doesn't escape the gimmick feel for me. I am fine with or without it. I don't feel like I am missing out without it and don't feel blessed when it is used.

@Fenbops there’s issues with them both tbh. My dual sense is fine, yet my Xbox controller got stick drift within a month. It is what it is.

It’s not even about comfort. I find both controllers fine and can use both for extended periods.
Just when it’s in my hand it just feels cheap. The build quality just doesn’t feel premium to me. Perhaps the elite may have more what I’m looking for but I haven’t tried it.

The only time I like the PS5 controller better is for racing games thanks to the amazing gyro controls (GT7 from the cockpit is just incredible). Other than that, both controllers are perfectly fine for current gaming. The haptics on dual sense are novel to begin with but you soon don't notice when in the thick of the action and it's actually better to turn them off for competitive accuracy in many games.

I usually turn all of that stuff off. What is important to me is that I can drop it on the ground or spill beer all over it and it will still work.

I just want tight controls, some weight to the thing and reliability. That's it unless you are adding some sort of native keyboard - like the screen people suggested above.

I love the Dualsense. It’s actually one of the few things about this generation that has felt like a proper step forward and when games successfully make full use of it like Returnal did it really adds to the whole experience. As @BeerIsAwesome said it would be great if Xbox adopted it and it became an industry standard because we would see more third parties coming up with new ideas and pushing the tech forward. There’s a laundry list of innovations in gaming considered “gimmicky” at the start but have gone on to be massive successes both in terms of hardware and software.

Yes they should

I don't want more expensive controllers just for the sake of it.

I'm fine without haptics, though they are nice.

I want hall effect sticks and a gyro though. They're game changing and the reason I can't use my Xbox controller for PC gaming anymore.

Nope! I turn the trigger BS off on PS5 games because it hurts my hands and there is nothing immersive about a hunk of plastic constantly shaking aggressively in my hands, it's just distracting.

Plus most third party developers don't even try to do anything interesting with the haptics, Sony studios also seem to be doing less and less, so it makes the controller more expensive for nothing.

It seems like the obvious evolution of the "rumble triggers" we already have

It's the sort of thing I'd prefer to be on any eventual Xbox VR controller

@Fenbops I was just mentioning to my wife that it's weird to me that some people see weight as a measure of a quality electronic device. I'm holding it in my hand sometimes for hours, it should be light. That is premium to me and if it means leaving out a few bells and whistles I am fine with that.

Nope, not even a little. I find it annoying after a bit. Elite 2 is the best controller I have ever used. Just keep that line going as it is and I’ll be right as rain.

@RBRTMNZ

I don’t want it super heavy, but I don’t want it super light either. A nice weight definitely gives the impression of quality for me. I don’t want it feeling like a 10 pound weight, but again I do vastly prefer a nicely weighted controller.

Eh maybe, I mean the pulse triggers was already a basic version of what the dual sense triggers do. Beyond that the "haptic feedback" is just a fancy term for fancy controller vibration.

The haptic triggers are annoying battery wastes 9/10 times. The rumble haptics are just rumble in an improved version, I go back and forth and don't really even notice the difference at this point (VR Sense is a little different.)

However GYROS have been standard everywhere but xbox for 15+ years. When do we get that?

Hall effect sensor is my most wanted - sick to death of my controllers all getting stick drift (Sony ones are just as bad).

No, keep the Xbox controller as it is with maybe hall effect added, it has to be backward compatible with all previous Xbox consoles, gimmicks could cause problems

I think MS should add many of the features found in the Steam Deck (Hall effect sticks, capacitive sticks, etc.). I'm not so convinced about force feedback or haptics. At some point, battery life is taking a hit. I play shooters and some other genres on the PC with KBM and don't ever think about the lack of physical feedback.

Yeah I dunno man to many people saying leave it alone. I gotta say the haptics are sweet I don't understand the logic here. Yes hall effect sensors but I want both not just one. I don't know if it's Xbox only players saying no or what but as a owner of all the consoles I really want Xbox to get on haptics ASAP. I would have skipped the PS5 but the controller sold me I've always disliked the dual shock but the sense is on point. The haptics add another sense of immersion for example in Death Stranding your fingers get tired as he walks these long elevated and uneven distances. Guns feel more like guns ect. Flat out saying no is a major loss for Xbox and I'm wondering why you all would want that. Maybe keep everyone happy and just add haptics to the Pro V3 it can sit next to my V1 and V2. Or simply let users toggle it.

The feature Xbox should include is gyro.

Once you’re used to it it’s godlike for fps. Can’t play without anymore.

@Moonglow Each to their own. If you don’t like it that’s fair enough. I’m clearly not going to convince you of the fun factor although I do wonder how much time you have actually spent playing games that use it properly. On the price front though the dualsense (£65) retails at £10 more than the Xbox controller (£55) and for that you get gyro, mic, haptics, adaptive triggers and touch pad….if you wait till a sale like everywhere’s having in the UK right now you can pick up spare controllers for £40 a pop.

The rate people buy up the often higher priced coloured and themed Xbox controllers and the success of the elite controllers show there is clearly not a shortage of people willing to throw money at peripherals. Plus if the dualsense features were industry standard the price point would even out due to the need to remain competitive. The dualsense is only more expensive now because it offers a significant amount of extras that the Xbox controller doesn’t.

I can’t say that I really notice the haptic feedback on the PS5. On Astrobot, yes, but that was basically a giant “tech demo” for the PS5, so of course they went all in. The only other time I noticed haptic feedback and trigger resistance was on Hogwarts Legacy, and Spiderman. It just doesn’t seem to get used often enough to make a difference. Also, when it first happened, you think “Cool”, but then you get used to it, so it loses it’s impact. Honestly, it’s a nice gimmick, but that’s all. Maybe if software developers actually made full use of it, properly, then it might make a difference. But who knows?

As for the new version, “DualSense Edge”, forget it. They are £200 each. Never paying that much for a controller. Sure, I got the Elite controller, for the Xbox One, but that wasn’t as expensive.

Simple answer, revise your headline to read "better haptic feedback" because the Xbox controllers have haptic feedback, its just not great. The best haptic feedback I felt on a Xbox one controller was back in 2013/2014 when I bought a pdp prismatic controller - it had the normal bits, but also included trigger tip buzz as well as adjustable intensity. For those that say haptic feedback isn't important, you've probably never fired a weapon before. Feeling that same kind of physical report when cocking a virtual weapon or firing it, dramatically increases immersion.

However, I do agree with the sentiment that current controllers suffer from a massive lack of quality. The original Xbox controllers felt more real and definitely died or broke 80% less than modern ones. Fixing analog sticks, triggers, bumpers and d-pad are a must.

@RIghteousNixon I get what your saying but I do think engineers should strive to make the lightest controller possible without compromises. I think we have just all held so many crap electronics that are weirdly light, because they compromised quality, that we have a bias against them being light.

I wonder the difference with the HD vibrations of the Switch. I never tried the ps5 controller, but at least I can tell having a switch for so long that it's really forgettable, mostly not used. At least not something that would make me buy another controller just for that.

@lipsness PS5's "haptic" feedback is definitely better than the Switch's "HD" rumble.

Developers would be really happy to support different types of controllers with different types of rumble /s

Worst idea ever to introduce a new controller who works differently in the middle of a gen

I enjoy HD rumble on Switch and would appreciate a variation of it on Xbox.

Yes or something that rivals haptic technology… controllers are expensive idk why they can’t get more innovative

I just want gyro

I honestly don't notice much difference atall with my dualsense ...I started to think I might I have a broke controller or something the way the super fanboys made out like it was the second coming when it was released...the gyro is more appealing

@Cikajovazmaj the clicky noise does get old fast. But it’s by design. It’s suppose to give a mechanical keyboard effect. But i would like to see it reduced or just eliminated completely. However the shape and feel of the Xbox controller works perfect for me. I am not a huge Dual shock or Dual Sense fan. Even tho I owned a PS4 and own a PS5.

@Dan1283 I don’t like the triggers on Dual Sense or the thumb stick placement. Also the L1 and R1 buttons feel bad and cheap. I have a PS5 but only buy exclusives for it as the Xbox controller fit’s my hands like a glove. The dual sense after about 45 mins starts to make my thumb and hand cramp.

@NEStalgia this seems like a topic that me and you could go on and on and on and on about. I’ll start… Xbox controller fits me like a glove and i like 90% of it. They could slightly update it again and call it a day for my liking. Dual Sense.. how much time you have buddy? Hahaha

Phil SPencer said he liked some features of the Dual Sense and wouldn’t rule out a refresh of the Xbox controller but only if they could do it in a way that worked for their ideas. So i am sure it would be similar in function but made differently. For me the Xbox controller is my go to and it’s what i game on 90% of the time. I only use my switch and PS5 for the exclusives. I have loved every non Duke Xbox controller they made and Sony controllers do nothing for me but cramp my hands and make me worse in competitive games. Granted this is all just subjective to my hands and play style. But i don’t need much out of the Xbox controller. I would like flat buttons, an Elite 3 in the form of the Series X controller, but with trigger stops, back paddles and hall sensors. Throw in gyro for those that like it. Overall a great controller and one of the standouts for me over the last 20 years of being a multi console owner.

Make a wireless controller with the dimensions and triggers of the wired 360 controller with Hall effect sensors and haptics please. Build quality of the elite and you can have my $200

Yes, I find the batteries last too long.

The Xbox Elite Series 1 and 2 are the best controllers I've used. I don't like the PS controllers but I'd change a few things about the Xbox controllers such as hall effect sensors, gyroscope and flatter front buttons. I like the rumble of the Xbox controller. Some games make a great use of it. I don't like the rumble gimmicks of Switch and PS5.

Besides, the article is wrong. The Xbox controllers have haptic feedback since 2013.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2013/06/06/xbox-one-controller-feature/

They need gyro for FPS aiming

@HonestHick Lol only 27 minutes because then the battery will run out

no because i dont like the 5 hours battery life of the dualsense

I can't say I care for it, its fun in Astro Bot but genuinely can't remember it's implementation in any other game I've played. Whilst it's triggers are generally more annoying than immersive

@NEStalgia dang. You get 27 mins? That’s 4.5 mins longer than my Edge for $200 with most of the settings in favor of better battery life. Guess there’s no reason to really dive into this controller talk hahaha

Elite 3 will come with Hall Effect & Haptic Feedback 100% otherwise there is no point. Oh and better build quality...lol

@HonestHick Even VR Sense lasts longer than Edge. Not by much mind you, but it's a technical victory.

@Nalverus I would love gyro. Makes games like Quake and Turok feel great to play. I wonder how Halo would feel with gyro aiming...

what a fail on PureXbox headline ! Xbox controllers has Haptic Feedback!!!! Omg Please Correct this Article and Please Read this first!!!!

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2013/06/06/xbox-one-controller-feature/

@S-Bacc Exactly! The user replaceable battery is a very distinguishing and peculiar feature with the Xbox controllers. Adopting in-built batteries wouldn't be quite ideal, in a long term perspective.

Controllers are so 20th century. They need to ditch them and release the Kenect 3.0

Haptic Feedback is a gimmick. It feels like the controller is about to break every time I hold down R2. Which is often because it does 'satisfy' an itch to press it down when haptics is turned on, problem is I find myself doing it even when I don't need to because of that because I'm a natural fidgeter!

@NEStalgia that is saying something. If PS6 also has this bad of battery life then i am convinced they just don’t care and ain’t ever going to try and fix it.

Not really, I have a PS5 and most of the time is more annoying than useful. I'm talking about the triggers, the HD rumble is fine I guess.

But the Xbox controller does need better shoulder buttons, both PS5 and Switch Pro controllers have more reliable shoulder buttons. Gyroscope too, it's 2023, Sony and Nintendo have had them on their controllers since 2006, it's not something new and has proven to be a reliable function to aim in shooters, having it on Xbox would make developers use it more on their games.

I remember the first Xbox One controller having something akin to a gyroscope with the IR sensors of the Kinect, but that thing was dead a year later and never had a replacement.

Haptics, hall effect sticks and back buttons!

@HonestHick When PS6 launches, the EU law for requiring easy user replaceable batteries will be in effect, so it won't matter so much. Though buying the "Dual Charge" controller that comes with 2 tiny batteries you have to charge on the separately sold $75 charger every 2 hours will be annoying.

@NEStalgia yeah can’t wait to see what they charge for the battery packs. Basically a pure profit accessory. I still think many of the things on the Dual Sense are overrated. I love not having a huge touchpad on the Xbox controller. Playing Diablo 4 on the Xbox controller works so good for me. Can’t see myself playing it on PS5, but maybe if i tried it on there it would surprise me. But it sure seems like hand cramps incoming.

No, it's distracting and gimmicky even before the horrible feel of dual sense and equally gimmicky touchpad.

Feels a lot like Apple adding wireless charging like they invented it, ages after everyone else sacked it off as slow.

Would love to see something like Oppo's SuperVOOC 65w charging built in to these devices though.

@HonestHick I might actually miss the touch pad when FFXIV drops on XB though. And it probably wouldn't hurt for AoE. I mock the touchpad because it's a joke in most games, and in all Sony games, but Xbox actually has games that would benefit from it, ironically. Maybe we need to go 90's and go with trackball controllers

No. I ALWAYS turn off rumble.

@NEStalgia Microsoft sidewinder i think it was. Yeah the touchpad to me is just lame. 98% if not 99% use it as a button at best or not at all. I have zero faith i will ever love a Sony controller and use it as a main. I will more than likely get an elite 3 if they do it right. Lately i have had an urge to get a white Series X controller. I have all Black ones at the moment i must just be bored and looking to spend money for the sake of spending money. I do like the white ones tho. I hit 250 hours on Diablo 4 so i am sure i will need a new one at some point.

Phil Spencer had previously commented on the DualSense haptics by saying companies copy from one another. Microsoft will add it - but it will be saved until the next generation Xbox.

@HonestHick Series S comes with a white one absolutely free.... . I have mine but it's still in the box. No point with an elite 2 and spare elite 2 around (MS black Friday 21 for ftw!)

I happened to see your notification email because it was between Apple emails because I bought a dirt cheap 2018 iPad to run a single app... Very fitting 😂

I know its not a popular opinion here, but the standard xbox controller is my least favourite of this gen, its cheap clicky, poorly featured and feels grim in the hand. Its also poorly made and all three of the ones I have have 'Sticky triggers' which is really annoying in driving games. The forza edition ones at least felt a bit better in hand so I got two of them. I also got a xim nexus so I have gyro and that feels much better in the hand.
The Nintendo pro controller feels superior in the hand to me. I also like the dual sense, but I find it works best when haptics are adjusted to be a fraction of full power or it tires my fingers.
I would like to see the standard xbox controller include gyro, feel less cheap in the hands and have at least more subtle rumble for better feedback.. none of this is essential of course, but these are improvements I would like to see.

@NEStalgia very fitting indeed. The iPad is my favorite Apple product. Yeah i am not buying a Series S, i ain’t that bored to spend money. I just like the white one, i happen to like the white Dual sense and think the black two tone ruins it in some ways. I liked that Apple made white electronic products “cool” for a little while, then it shifted back to the standard black. I like both. But i thought it was kind of neat Sony went with white. But man the PS5 is ugly. No color really saves that, however i do use the black plates to make it sort of disappear more. I have one Elite 2 and would gladly buy an elite 3 when and if it gets announced. Just don’t think they are in a rush for it.

@Titntin i don’t comment much on controller preference cause hand size and shape is very different. Some controllers even work better or worse depending on genre of game, etc etc. however i have commented on here a few times on the click noises of the Xbox, as i too dislike them, however it is done on purpose to align Xbox controller to PC mechanical keyboards that are super popular. I find mechanical keyboard noises to drive me crazy. Thankfully with my surround sound or headphones i never hear the Xbox controller clicks. The Xbox controller is my daily driver. It fits me like a glove and i love the triggers and bumpers over PS controllers. I do wish MS would use flat buttons like PS. The Switch pro controller is pretty good for me as well, and i hope gets a few upgrades when the next switch comes out. 😊

@HonestHick You know my opinions on Apple, but I do have to say I just don't understand how no one else has managed to do tablets right. Their laptops are sucky and overpriced, their desktops are LOL$$$$, their phones are overpriced and under-featured. But somehow their tablets are the only ones that work right, are fit/sized/weighted to the purpose, and aren't actually overpriced.

Hah, I love the series S just as a streaming server. You can only stream 1080p anyway so it's perfect.

Apple gets the credit for making white cool fora while, but X360 was white from the start, Wii was white from the start, gaming actually had a lot of white electronics before Apple made it cool. It's just nobody noticed or cared until Apple did it and then Sony copied it.

@NEStalgia i remember the white iPod with the white cord’s of the headphones commercial from apple a long long time ago. I think thats what did it for the color white. Apple destroy’s all tablets. Again that is why my iPad is my favorite and most used product in the house. Apples desktops make more movies than anything else. They are a graphics powerhouse. Their laptops are great if you need or want a Mac, but at this point PC and Mac laptops are just more of the same thing over and over and i just don’t daily or really even monthly need one when i have a iPad Pro. The Series S is good enough for a lot of reasons for people. I just don’t have a use for it. I do want 1 or 2 white Xbox controllers for some reason. If the rumors are true for a digital series X i will get that for downstairs. Even tho i am itching to build a powerful gaming PC for downstairs, i know i won’t. I just don’t need it, but do like some of the benefits of gaming on PC. So a Series X downstairs will do just fine, if i really need something to play in the office, maybe a Series S works there. But i don’t think i need a console in 3 rooms. Seems spoiled haha

@HonestHick Movies, music, "art" people and Mac don't go together because Apple does anything particularly superior in those areas, creative industries just tend to use Apple because creative industries historically use Apple. Waaaay back in the day there were solid reasons those things benefited on Apple's architecture. That hasn't been true for a long, long time, however, just like business legacy software is locked to Windows therefore all future business software is continued on Windows the same applies to creative tools on Apple, the tools are just there, the backward compatibility is therefore from Apple, the user familiarity is with Apple, so while there's no real reason to stay with Apple, backward compatibility issues keep it unlikely to change, and there's no incentive that anything else does it better either.

The iPad really remains the only well designed tablet, and I just don't understand how nobody else has managed to do it properly. It makes no sense, but it's definitely a solid product, AND a solid price point and definitively the winner. Everything else they make is just a more expensive version of things others make with less features and designer prices

@NEStalgia the reason the iPad is so good is the hardware and software team at apple made sure they designed it in ways that work and left off stuff some of us ask for but would harm the experience of what it does. Android tablets are junk and it starts with the software. Most of it is just stretched out phone apps. I have the Pro with the Magic Keyboard and it works so well and has great app support to mostly make my MacBook Pro something i never pick up anymore. I disagree with your Mac take. The M series chips destroy intel. Throw in the software for creative groups and it’s a wrap. Apple has long been the place for musicians and movie studios. Most of Disney is built on Mac. Can’t prove this but i would assume mac’s were mostly if not exclusively used for the Mario movie as well. It’s their niche market and they do it really well, thats why every few years they are releasing $10,000-$30,000 Mac setups. Mac is also a leader in display quality. Look at any apple product and they have the best color accuracy of any device in its range. Phone tablet, computer. I could go on and on, but windows and Mac have carved out their markets and Apples is small on the Mac side, but they have that on lock down, they create the devices around what those creators ask for. Digital photography also is heavy on Mac. Aperture software was a thing on mac’s when i was younger and dated a photographer. Not sure i know where that market is today. Steve Jobs said the iPad was the car and the Mac was the truck. They don’t intend to make them for the same use. These days as i get older i am not sure i need a laptop anymore. The iPad Pro with the Keyboard is all i use and it has many 1-2 things that i feel a laptop does better for me. But i use those features many a few times a year. But i like that there is options for everyone as Apple isn’t for everyone, but the sales are starting to show thats not the case. The iPhone and ipad and watch continue to eat market share anyway from the competition at the high end. Now if i could only live long enough to see MS gain market share back from PS. It’s seeming like PS is just running their normal circles around the competition.

@Banjo- Xbox controllers don’t have haptic feedback, even the Elite pad doesn’t. They rumble a bit, that’s not the same as the PS5 pad. PS5 pad is great, Astrobot shows it off well. There’s one bit you have to literally blow ya pad to make a wind wheel spin!! Xbox pads can’t do that. Adaptive triggers too, playing a game like COD the trigger mimicks the trigger of the gun you’re using. A gentle squeeze an ya feel the tension, a little more an you actually feel the bullet fire an release from the gun. Ya should try it, it’s great!!

@HonestHick I'm not sure what happened with android tablets. It shouldn't be hard. Tablets are literally phones without phones and with large screens. How can they get the phones right and the tablets wrong? Technically iPad apps are just stretched out phone apps too because the whole point of mobile design is that it's supposed to be a single scalable UI design, for both platforms. It's not so much that it's re-using phone interfaces that's a problem, it's more a problem that most devs just don't care about the Android result, presumably for business reasons where customers just aren't buying enough. It's why I ended up buying an iPad at all now. Trying to use a few particular apps that have Android versions. Android itself doesn't cause any problems for it, it's simply that the apps are flat-out broken on Android, because they just developed for iOS and did a Rockstar-grade port to Android and that was it, support stopped there. And they have no indication they intend to fix it ever. Granted, I don't like Android tablets much. Lack of Android software support from devs aside, the hardware is always just too heavy, too large, too hard to hold, or for the most part too-generic-Chinese-clone-stuff with sub-par builds and firmware, and when Samsung throws a quality build out they basically drop support for it in 3 months. I guess the problem is really just that sales were never there on Android tablets so no R&D has ever really been put into them. Maybe a problem that simply being beat to market by iPad just devoured too much market to make it viable.

It's kind of ironic to me, because Apple started with a unified iOS for phone and tablet, then split it out into separate "OS" (that's not actually very different at all) for tablet. Meanwhile Android started with "giant phones", then split off into a separate tablet OS with Honeycomb, and then just merged it back together again with Ice Cream Sandwich.

Yeah, like I said, Apple doesn't offer anything specifically advantageous to audio/video use. Back in they day they absolutely did but that gap closed 15-20 years ago. It's just inertia, backward compatibility (same reason XB has a hard time fighting PS and Phil's point on losing the worst generation....Apple won audio/video use back in the 80s and 90s and it would take a catastrophe for them to lose it even if they don't really have particular advantages)), plus the creative type user is going to gel with Apple's OS design better.

But it doesn't matter, the suits in the studio executives lot wouldn't dream of touching a Mac to crunch their spreadsheets and that's the only building that matters. [Insert Jim Ryan punchline here]

Displays....that's an area I find funny, because people say that but Apple doesn't actually make any displays. Only a few companies actually do make display panels. LG, Samsung, Sony, Sharp (now Foxconn), Wen Tech Group (China), Hisense (China), a few other obscure OEM Chinese companies, Noritake (yes, the fine dinnerware company is actually a display panel producer for industrial panels), NEC. Might be missing one or two, but not many firms actually produce panels. Most "Apple" hardware other than their custom designed SoCs are just purchased to a spec. Calling a display an "Apple" is like calling FF7R a "Sony game" - they didn't make it, they just bought it.

@NEStalgia i agree with most of that haha. Apple doesn’t make the screen they make the tech behind the screens. Much in the way with camera’s. You don’t have to make the lens to get better results. i use a work PC that is given to me and i live in Excel and it works well for what it does. I used the Apple Excel version MS makes for it and find it a little different but mainly the same. I have also said Apple is like Nintendo, they have their own culture and won’t add things to it just cause people ask for it or think it should be different. If that works for you, you love it for the most part. But if it don’t, you don’t want to touch it at all. I know people that HATE Nintendo and Apple. I couldn’t give them one. But they don’t like the culture of how they do business and i respect that cause i love both of those companies and even i find myself asking why can’t you just do this or that, it’s not that hard. But it’s not in the core identity of what their products do. However they have rabid fan bases, that truly love the company. I don’t know many people that have a love for windows. Not to many stickers on car’s for MS hahaha. I will be honest with you. Even at my age and for all the money i have spent at the end of the last gen on high end TV’s and Audio and this and that. Something about Nintendo still speaks to me. Minus the power game that they just don’t do. If the next Nintendo could run Red Dead and Diablo at 1440P or 4K/60 i would almost main it as my daily console. Sony and i will more than likely never be everyday all day partners. Xbox concerns me with will they stay into console gaming and be more competitive and innovative. Nintendo is only lacking power to draw 3rd party games i care to play and have invested money into enjoying. But thats not the culture of the brand and so i have to respect them for what they do do right for me. Something else i am surprised at is just how much i have grown to not like Trophies and Achievements. It is nice to play games on the switch and not do weird things to pop a achievement. Those have a way of telling my brain to play a game a a certain way i might not otherwise would have or often times enjoy. I know i will catch hate for this, but i hope Nintendo don’t include a Trophy like system to their platform. Obviously they are here to stay on the other two. If they did away with them the internet would explode with hate. Sorry this is a random reply. But as always, I appreciate your time in reading them and replying and just overall company in taking tech. It gets harder and harder to find good conversations around tech and gaming, which saddens me as i do enjoy both a lot.

@HonestHick ". I don’t know many people that have a love for windows. Not to many stickers on car’s for MS hahaha"

Which is kind of the point....if you need to decorate your car with logos of a computer OS manufacturer, there's something very wrong here...

The real irony, though, is there's a 95% chance that the car they've adorned with Apple stickers.......is controlled by a Windows kernel backend and without it they couldn't even turn it on.......... It's like a Vegetarians Against Agriculture movement.

I still will never, ever understand trophievements. I've never played a game a certain way to get them. I don't know they exist other than that they pop up and annoy me while I'm playing (nothing makes me what to hit something like watching a story cutscene with important dialog and the freaking gong goes off and covers the subtitles while it's at it! Contrats! You watched a movie!)

Yeah, I've gone in circles with trophievement fans, and they just adore them. I honestly thought everyone would laugh them out of existence back when they first happened and I truly do not understand peopele's like for them. The scariest part is it highlights how radically different peopele's brains function and that large swaths of people are wholy incompatible to coexist in the same society. I gaming it's a simple fun argument about achievements but when you think about it and how that complete difference in perception and processing events between people those people are wholly incompatible to coexist in the real world on more important issues, they perceive events, good outcomes, and undesirable outcomes in completely mutually exclusive ways. It's almost like we need a "sorting hat" to sort people out when they turn 5 into which continent they will live on based on segregated personatlity types or something. Though I think that might end with one type conquering all others.

@NEStalgia the only reason i mentioned the Apple stickers is Apple is cult or family like to its users. Be that good or bad. But they are loyal and not leaving their IOS devices anytime soon. Apple will likely hit 10 Trillion in net worth and thats with selling hardware at little profits compared to Microsoft selling software at huge profits. Although they have started to make big earning on their services and that is mainly profit. At the end of the day Apple is no longer the art nerd in the corner that others forget about. They are now a 3 trillion dollar company that most copy and envy their integrated ecosystem.

Well i must say i loved achievements when they hit 360. I used it as a way to track progress and just having that sense of accomplishment and wanted high percentages on my profile. Cause i normally beat every game i start. Yes even Redfall, I finished it. But yes i must embarrassingly admit they have and sometimes still do make me play games differently than i would without them. They have just reached a point with me that they are more annoying than fun, i wish i could delete games off my profile that i hated but got 1 unlocked for completing the tutorial. Like thats a cruel joke. But neither Sony or Microsoft will ever let us delete those and it really shouldn’t matter that much to me. But keep in mind, i have a perfectionist and OCD mind. I am very finicky and nerdy about things. I know thats lame, or sounds childish, but i like full control over certain things. Now granted i could turn off achievements, to where they don’t pop or even display on the profile. So there is that option. But i remember players selling their PS3’s cause the games didn’t have a reward system. I mean that was bigger for 360 than people remember or were around to witness. Sony went to the lab quick to make sure they had that feature. Had they not it was about to get bad for them. So again, i hope Nintendo doesn’t do them. They have a good thing going without them, even Steam has them of course. I wish they had something like them in the game, but not a leaderboard and on my profile. You are stupid smart so i am sure you know players are buying shovelware on PS5 that gives them loads of trophies for just pressing X. I mean that is toxic to gaming. The PS store is already a mess to navigate and now we have rubber ducky adventures for $1.99 as a top seller cause it gives trophies for pressing X. What’s the world come to NES?

Well, I believe they're better work on a better dpad, specially for fighting games (last good xbox dpad was on the 360). The buttons are too noisy and feel cheap too.

@S-Bacc I think you are on to something here! Would be great if they pulled all that off.

Frankly, I think they are long overdue for a new elite controller, and it definitely should include all of this.

I think the base controllers need to be phased out and replaced with ones that offer haptic feedback and better latency. They can price them the same or increase by another $10 or so, but not much more for a standard controller.