Xbox First-Party RPG Avowed Reportedly Delayed Until Early 2025

Sigh.

I get it but sigh.

Just got to that in another thread.
Well if Indy get delayed as well to 2024 that’s another flat year from Microsoft for Xbox.

So maybe Xbox has needed up no better than the lacklustre Sony efforts for 2024.

It’s all ducking PR with Sony and Microsoft lately and no thought to the gamers.

Meant Indy delay to 2025.

Oh dear
More 1st party exclusives delayed for xbox this isn't good another barron dry year for xbox exclusives there's hardly anything any exclusives as it is

And console sales diminish even more and Game pass stagnates even more.

All round from all companies this generation is the Joke Generation.

Seeing as now Holiday 2024 is stacked with COD, STALKER 2, Indy and a slew of more niche exclusives, I get it.

...And out of all of that, MS delays the one I was looking forward to the most

@abe_hikura Nah brother let it out. This shxt is ridiculous at this point

It’s saying something when probably Astro Bot will be the stand out game for 2024 and the game for Christmas.

Always delay it if it’s not ready…… but come the ***** on Xbox. Why the ***** did you give a window as fall 2024 not even 2 months ago and then you were going to delay it. Xbox’s planning is ***** horrible and they need to get their release dates figured the ***** out cause this ***** is getting old.

It doesn’t need breathing room.
Games like COD and FIFA are always there.
Stalker 2 if it releases is totally different
And Indy will be delayed to 2025 as well.

They stretch studios to far with to many projects running at once.

Xbox strikes again.

This company's inability to deliver anything on time is absolutely legendary.

@OldGamer999 indy is DEFINITELY next to be delayed.

So, the reason for the delay is......

Call of Duty
Call of Duty
Call of Duty
Call of Duty?

Just making sure I have this right.

In fairness to MS, Nintendo held Pikmin 4 for like 6 years just to get the optimum release timing, and they do that regularly, so it's not like it's an uncommon thing in the business, but, MS coming off "xbox has no games (yet) (again)" and finally having a heavy release schedule coming up, that just feels dumb.

Strategically for them it makes sense, Sony's got nothing either, and MS needs to reserve their games for when Sony starts releasing something that isn't Concord which will mostly compete with Redfall for player base. But the whole generation from MS has been waiting for tomorrow. Meanwhile Sony was basically the same but with better optics because they had a few late PS4 games to release in PS5's window, and moneyhatted some Square stuff.

The real problem here is what little sales Series was going to have this holiday evaporates without any of their big games, unless Indy will release on time and will carry the holiday (and Call of Duty, Call of Duty, Call of Duty, which will still sell better on PS anyway.)

This is pretty much the only thing I was looking forward to.

I'm just kind of over Xbox at this point.

@armondo36 Come on, that's not fair, Windows 95 was CLEARLY targeted for a 1996 release from the beginning.

This is why is mainly retro game these days, no delays!

@NEStalgia
This is why I say Microsoft have no idea how to market a console or don’t want to.

They could have the last quarter of the year to themselves with Avowed and Indy and even COD and advertised and PR the console with the games and game pass.

I can’t work Microsoft out, even when the other two leave a massive gap for Microsoft to show and shout about Xbox consoles and games, Microsoft don’t.

I don’t think Microsoft would win a 100 meter race if even Sony and Nintendo ran the race backwards going the wrong way.

@NEStalgia maybe they are preparing the ps5 pro version to launch with at the same time.

That would be funny.

This game is said to be practically done so for those saying Indy is going to be delayed, I think this game is being delayed BECAUSE Indy is still coming and they wanted to give it and the other releases more time to breathe.

The exception I can possible give for this.
Is if Avowed is delayed until early 2025.
It ends up being a top end all round AAA game that is up there with say a GOWR, BOTW etc.

Then I would praise the decision and think what an amazing Xbox studio game and about bloody time.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner

It’s going to be strange when the PS5 Pro is released and games from Xbox studios like Doom will run better or best on a Sony console and not an Xbox console.

This is, I suspect, less down to 'breathing room', and more down to pacing major Game Pass releases. If MS are going to charge a monthly premium for major day one releases, they need to actually be able to provide said releases across the year instead of lumping them all in the months before Christmas.

@OldGamer999 they would announce that they intend to run the race next Thursday.

They do have a large number of 1st party games releasing to gamepass in a small window. I believe it is still projected that 6 games release between Sept 4 and the end of the year (avowed would have made 7).

They should eventually get to a point where they are like Nintendo and they are always holding at least one finished game for the right release window. This seems like the stars aligned at the same moment for a lot of their games and they are all ready to release at the same time. Hopefully this means it will be a regular cadence from now on.

I'm surprised Ara and age of mythology are both releasing september as those should have some overlap in player base. Personally avowed is one of my most anticipated so I am selfishly wishing a different game was held but maybe that one would benefit most from a little more polish.

@armondo36
Well at least they might get some PR out of it for Xbox 🤣

Lol. They are a funny bunch at MS. It is like they don't have access to a calendar.

This was what I was looking forward to most, of the first party lineup. Oh, well, I always have plenty to play.

I guess I take this with a grain of salt until officially confirmed

Looking forward to the eventual release of Fable: The Story of Xbox Project Planning

In the grand scheme of things not an issue as my backlog is what it is. But seriously they should be way more knowledgeable about their game windows than what they appear to be… they are projecting an image that they are a bunch of overpaid clowns supported by our GP subscriptions…..

@RentedPanda "Looking forward to the eventual release of Fable: The Story of Xbox Project Planning"

But when will Game Pass Standard subscribers get to play it?

@OldGamer999 I figure they're either thinking there's no use having the quarter to themselves if they could save that to be able to interfere with Sony's big games marketing, or they're thinking CoD is going to sell soooooooooo many consoles and subs, can't have everything up next to CoD because they don't understand their own market. Or Indy isn't delayed, in which case I can kind of see CoD+Indy not wanting to stack it with Avowed so all the GP releases happen at once and cannibalize the marketing. It COULD be a sensible decision. We just don't trust them to make those so we assume it's not.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner I mean, they did say it would launch on The World's Most Powerful Console, didn't they? Not their fault if that's the PS5 Pro. Gotta keep the promise!

If Indy doesn't come out this year for whatever reason, then my Xbox won't be turned on again until 2025. I haven't used it since April.

There is just not much I want to play on the console atm (I was really looking forward to Avowed), especially with raised prices for gamepass. I am not trying to be a hater-this is just where I am at right now.

@NEStalgia
Yes being fair you would like to think there is some sensible strategy to all this and the outcome benefits gamers and Xbox in some way.
But you said it, we just don’t trust anything they say currently.

I mean for me to believe they are making a new next generation console under the tv hardware without needing any cloud help etc.

I would need to see it in some very specific and special presentation signed by God himself.
And this is Xbox problem no one trusts them and the general public in the UK and Europe hardly know what an Xbox is nowadays.

If they are meant to be taking a full three pronged attack, which they have the money and power to do so, they are showing a very funny way of going about it.
It’s like they want to skip to say 2040 when the infrastructure is there when maybe streaming can match hardware performance with games 100% in all areas.
But in doing so they are destroying the brand Xbox and by the time we get to 2040 and all being well, we would have forgotten what Xbox is.
But maybe by then they just want to publish only.

@OldGamer999 this generation has been awful, heck my favorite game that plays the most next gen is still red dead redemption 2 from last gen. Most of the stuff this gen is only a tad better looking than last gen and has a release date of before 2030. Yeah Gears E Day will be jaw dropping but thats another before 2030 title. Man this is just rough

Looking forward to the game but come on MS, first party titles are what you need and its very lacking and has been for a long time now…

@HonestHick
Yeah it’s hardly been a vintage new generation
Sony blame this and that, Microsoft blame this and that.
But at the end of the day the companies are to blame themselves on all accounts.
Be it the hardware or studios.
Though the series x is a great console in many ways, I think quick resume is fantastic.

I guess we can all look forward to next year 2025, but it’s funny we all keep saying that every year.

I even think Nintendo have totally missed the ball on Switch 2 and should have released say May 2024 or latest September 2024.
But then they have their own excuses for that.

All three companies have missed some great opportunities and seem to be some sort of self destructive mode at the moment.

I’ve also noticed communication to the fans has not been that great overall this year either from all three, shrouded in mainly secrecy and noncommittal moments.

@HonestHick
And to add to that from nearly all developers quality and game performance is absolutely terrible overall with only the odd tiny glimmer of light.
God knows what developers and studios are upto and I know it is not popular but since covid there is to much hybrid working from home and a lot of employees across all businesses really think they are entitled and less focused on the role that usually gives us amazing quality games of the past.

@HonestHick respectfully, I don't agree.
Assuming this generation includes only XSX/S and PS5, PS5 had some bangers like R&C, FF7/16, Spider-Man 2, Astro... And while graphics evolution hasn't been breathtaking, load times and immersion have been taken to another level. Personally, I don't enjoy playing last gen stuff as much anymore.
It's really only that MS has dropped the ball when it comes to content and immersion side of things. There has been zero top-notch exclusives and controller (users interaction point) is unchanged from last gen.

I understand I'll be frowned upon for this comment, it's just how I feel.

@OldGamer999 Despite my pessimism on Xbox, I 100% guarantee there will be at lest ONE more generation of set top hardware (or Nintendo-style dockable hybrid but more powerful.)

Why? Because most of their GP subs still depend on it, and they need to maintain those numbers for investors and for further contract negotiation with streaming stick partners.

Also to assist in pushing Copilot AI into people's lives - it will guaranteed heavily leverage (read: Force it upon you at every single trigger pull whether you want it or not), because the whole company is bet on Copilot now, and nobody actually uses it or probably ever will.

So there will be another Xbox, worry not. Whether it will be a good console or not, or whether the brand will make the new box as popular as Copilot itself or not, is another matter.

All 3 suck: I think some of it is the state of the tech business. Or business in general. Or investment banking. Or something. Did you see Logitech's CEO propose with a straight face the "forever mouse" that will carry a subscription to make it profitable because it will be such excessive design, while she compared it to a Rolex? There is some sort of mental health issue that has spread among corporate CEOs. They all have suffered brain damage of some sort. Maybe there was a Russian attack at the last Bilderberg conference that released a nerve gas to make them all go mad? Who in their right mind would buy a MOUSE that comes with a subscription monthly to use your MOUSE?! Even an exotic top of the line gaming mouse is like $150 tops. Me and @HonestHick are two of the most obsessive input device connoisseurs on earth. I would not buy a $10/mo mouse or controller even if the thing were made out of solid Beryllium and the sticks worked on a psychic interface.

2024 turning into a shocker for first party releases

@NEStalgia
You probably know I have always touted just over 50% of GP subs are on Xbox consoles and they are stuck in that hole as well I think, not really sure knowing what way to turn. So I totally get you.
Thats why I never understood why they haven’t really pushed the consoles and gained even more GP subs, sell a console sell a GP sub almost certain.

As for beryllium, it’s a Group 1 carcinogen (carcinogenic to humans) stay away from it. 🤣
Go for titanium instead.

Gutted, but there’s no shortage of new games between now and the end of the year - Star Wars outlaws, AC Shadows, Astro bot, MS Flight simulator 2024, Age of mythology, Black myth Wukong - to name but a few 🤷🏻‍♂️

@Cikajovazmaj
You are spot on, when it comes to games Sony given a few top AAA even if some are cross generation and also so have Nintendo and that’s one good reason why they sell consoles and have a very good following be it gamers or general public.

Xbox had this in the Xbox 360 but gave most of it up and apart from Forza Horizon 5 have released nothing really on the level of Sony or even Nintendo this new generation coming up to 4 years that is developed by their studios that they own now.
Even Halo Infinite didn’t do much for Xbox and left me a little flat overall.
Also advertising and PR has been non existent overall.

Microsoft is going to be the first company to announce a game delay during the game's reveal trailer.

Lol, of course it's delayed. Microsoft honestly cannot do anything right. Next, Indy will be delayed.

@Romans12 You watch they'll delay Avowed because of the release schedule make a big song and dance about giving it a super polish then they'll discover Indy needs more time and is getting delayed.

@abe_hikura Yep, you're spot on. And also, Avowed will probably come out and it will not even be that good.

@NEStalgia I will join your ridiculous input device club as I just upgraded to a G502 Lightspeed X Plus and they deffo aint cheap

@armondo36 I think Square-Enix holds that record.

@OldGamer999 Yeah, I think they're stuck in a multi-pronged hole. They're not really winning in console due to their own mistakes along the years, and it's a market that's shrinking, not growing, so I understand them not wanting to invest too heavily into it. Yet their subscription model depends on captive customers, and it's only going to be so popular on PC where there's Steam to compete with, mobile clearly has no interest, and I'm not convinced the cloud/TV market will be buying in in the kind of numbers they wanted because that market's mostly going to be very casual, and non-commital to recurring fees. Otherwise they'd own consoles. So their console base is really the only locked audience primed for gaming subscriptions. They're stuck with it even if they wish they weren't, unless they make a breakthrough in getting GP on PS/NSW, or (probably more likely) get bulk/wholesale contracts to get it bundled with cable packages, TV streaming packages etc (Xfinity including Game Pass, Netflix Ultra with Game Pass or something. I could see that being the ultimate future of Game Pass. And just like the Oprah Winfrey Network, you get to pay for it whether you want to or not because it's part of your streaming/cable bill. No Oprah? No football. So you have to buy Oprah. It would make sense operating like a tv network sub.

Beryllium: Clearly you do not understand marketing. Especially marketing expensive Rolex associated things to rich people seeking status without a lick of sense. See also: Apple.

@OldGamer999 yeah i do agree with those points and while i am a stay at home worker. My job is ideal for it. There job is to be around creators and share idea’s and make sure each others work is jelling together, i think video game work from home is not ideal. This Gen has been awful honestly. I am sure it will get good right before the new generation starts and yes i agree i love the Series X hardware, it’s the best made hardware they have ever made but they are wasting it on doing everything else poorly. Sony is just living off past history and a fan base that thinks they do no wrong in some cases. But even Sony this gen has been a lot of failed live service projects and remasters. At least this far along. Nintendo could release the Switch 2 at any point and it will sell. They said they wanted to have enough inventory so scalpers didn’t ruin the launch so they are making sure when they do they can flood the market. I respect that actually if true.

@Cikajovazmaj you wont get frowned on by me, this is what this platform is for is to share what you like and don’t and why. I respect what you said and what is working for you. I am just not getting the types of games and franchises that excite me so far this generation. It will change at some point, but i find myself waiting on things more than playing whats out. Well other than the few titles that i do like have been released. I am hope in 2025 we start to see less cross gen and push some true life into the software before we see the next gen consoles. I enjoyed your reply and always look forward to speaking on any topics 😀

@OldGamer999 haha never thought the IARC would come up on purexbox haha

@OldGamer999 There are those out there that doubt this but it's gonna 100% happen. PS5 pro enhancement will be mandatory for all PS5 games realising post pro.

@HonestHick
Don’t get wrong maybe the account could work from home and the person buying the tea and sugar but the main collaboration employees should be there.
But I bet they are not just like where I work and that is where working from home has run away with itself and all workers think they have rights to it and it is harming many businesses overall.

I understand the delay, need to spread out the gamepass titles to retain service value. Sucks, but honestly im happy because it gives me more time to enjoy an already large backlog of games.

@NeutronBomb
Absolutely it will and it will feel strange at first.
But if you want the best top performance from the game, it will be PS5 Pro even if a Microsoft studio is developing the game.

As many have said if Indy is delayed to 2025 Xbox has been no different in 2024 than Sony in reality for owned IP.

Xbox: Hellblade II, BLOPS6, & Flight Sim 2024
PS: D2: The Final Shape, Concord, & Astrobot

Super depressing year for Microsoft & Sony.
They are definitely trying hard to make Series and PS5 the worst console gen ever.

All these studios, and yet Microsoft has a smaller game output than Nintendo.

It's crazy how they bought so many studios-'back in 2018!!- and still don't have anything remotely close to even a slow output.

What kind of mismanagement is going on over there? It seems intentional, like sabotage now. You can't do this repeatedly unless there's a core problem or block in place.

I'm not going to buy Xbox's spin on this. This didn't get delayed because they have too many good games coming out. It's delayed because they suck at planning and scheduling and everything they have for this year was pushed into a 3 month window. They have released 1 game in the last 10 months.

2024 is now the third straight year of "Next year is when the great games really start showing up!"

@HotGoomba true though Nintendo is almost entirely outsourced. Takehashi says if you include all their outsource they're about as big as Ubisoft. And Ubisoft is ginormous.

@OldGamer999 well it’s a lot easier and faster to add games to subsidized gamepass than it is for any firm to make them. This is what happens when people have nearly unlimited choice. A service like GP can become stagnant as you state. Just like every other streaming service that people complain about the content when there is an abundance of content.

@NEStalgia i ain’t buying that mouse for work i use a Microsoft Surface mouse and i like. Just the thought of were tech is heading is insane. Don’t even seem real at times and yet here we are.

The only good thing to this is that perhaps the game will be more polished. It sucks for gamers whom own current hardware from Sony and Microsoft. They both really dropped the ball at this point with exclusive current generation content. At this rate, the next Xbox better have knock out content at launch from Microsoft’s numerous studios! Then again I’m not so confident that a next Xbox’s exclusive content will only be for that Xbox. Same for Sony. I wish they would keep the exclusives for current generation in which they are made. As the next consoles need to have beasts of CPUs to allow devs to really push in game worlds.

Delayed so that people will have to up their game pass tier to play it. I’ll be playing dragon quest 3 in November anyway. Not that I’m not excited about avowed too! And in December I’ll be playing Fantasian. Metapho refantasio in October…

@HotGoomba Nintendo outsources quite a bit these days.

I'm kinda okay with it.

With how dumb Microsoft's strategy of releasing games usually is (releasing every game in second half), spreading games is nice change of pace.

They already have huge amount of content for rest of this year. And Dragon Age is also releasing in fall. And november is packed with games especially after Stalker 2 delay into november.

So having
Q1 - Avowed, South of Midnight
Q2 - Doom The Dark Ages
Q3 - Fable
Q4 - Call of Duty 2025
With few other games sprinkled? Sounds good to me.

Getting it fully compatible with PS5 probably.
(he said in a sarcastic, cynical tone)

@jesse_dylan @NEStalgia Interesting. Didn't know they did that. That mostly explains Nintendo's output being much larger than Microsoft's.

@themightyant I completely understand why they are doing it but that’s not the problem. The problem is why even announce a release window in the first place. Yes fall of 2021 was stacked and it is important to space out their games but will say that time was when Xbox was most successful this generation. We are also getting to the point where Xbox has had so few exclusives that they need to start releasing their exclusives to get more people in to game pass and buy consoles and having a crap ton of presumed quailty exclusives and first party games is the way to do it.

They're actively trying to destroy their console sales now so that when they pull out of the console market they'll have a valid excuse.

@kuu_nousee You forgot about MLB The Show.

Ive pretty much hung onto my series x with Avowed in mind. Indie in 1st person is not exciting me and I consume 3rd parties elsewhere, so this is real bad news for me. Im considering selling now, its not been used all year.. what a shame..

@HotGoomba Yeah, Nintendo gets a free pass too often for "nintendo doesn't have these kind of problems" and "Nintendo plans so perfectly and isn't closing studios" but it's not really true. Nintendo's setup is a little too shiny really, they avoid the problems by simply never having staff to begin with. Most of their "studios" consist of the core team/team leads/management-only. Then the actual work is all contracts to outside companies. Thus the work conditions, employee issues etc are never "Nintendo". And they never close studios because....they just expired a contract. Who knows what happens on the other side of that contract. They always smell like a rose.

Bah, I've lost complete interest in this now. I've actual games worth playing as opposed to continually waiting for one that keeps being put back again and again and again.

@themightyant my issue with "giving a game breathing room" doesn't make sense to me when Xbox's core focus is GamePass. The only issue Xbox should be worried about is overlaying single player only games. This is a single player game so another multiplayer game won't just eat up all the time for someone not into multiplayer games at all. I.e. Black Ops 6. If Indy is this year they should do one in October and one in December, it's not that difficult.

@NEStalgia Nintendo DOESN'T have these kinds of problems, though, lol, which is why people keep saying stuff like that.

Time for me to fangirl a bit.

Nintendo maintains a consistent schedule of exclusive releases for their base.

Nintendo isn't snapping up developers and then shuttering them.

Nintendo isn't pumping up their hardware prices in certain markets and being led astray by industry trends like the live service bubble.

Nintendo isn't laying off hundreds or thousands of employees because of poor choices made by the top brass.

Nintendo internally delays games all the time, but is typically smart enough to keep these delays internal, so consumers aren't gobsmacked with eleventh hour delays (Zelda games are a notable exception).

And yes, Nintendo is smart and maintains a high level of content publishing by working with other companies to develop exclusives for them and assist with development of key games. Nothing is stopping Microsoft from contracting skilled third-parties to help them develop new games, or to utilize their IPs in interesting ways. They prefer to simply buy companies and then give them free rein to make whatever they want, which has been mostly turning out disappointing products, because EVERYONE at a development studio needs to do their job, including the higher management.

The results speak for themselves, frankly. This generation is a new golden age for Nintendo, whereas the competition is floundering.

Well the trailer they showed showed lackluster movement and not so smart ai

@Ralizah

Yep, Nintendo have done very well with the Switch and I forsee that trend continuing with it's successor - the only next console I've any genuine interest in.

@Ralizah I'd somewhat disagree or counter some of that.

Nintendo does maintain a consistent schedule of exclusives (except when they don't), however they do so by introducing a lot of very small "filler" projects, which are of a level of simplicity that would not pass on any other platform but theirs and mobile, due to their Disney-like fan cultivation, while also charging the same price as major releases for them. I.E. The Nintendo method there is not available to competitors.

Yes, Nintendo doesn't buy and close developers all the time -DIRECTLY, but the implication they simply never cancel projects or teams that suggests isn't true. As their "studios" are not studios but rather management power teams that lead an outside contract pool of development, they can shutter projects entirely, and the staff isn't "Nintendo" staff that gets left behind. EG the Metroid Prime 4 original team went SOMEWHERE when the project died. Alpha Dream "shut down" but as they were "independent" they just closed and weren't shut by Nintendo. Except they were basically only independent on paper. Nintendo's not as squeaky clean as their optics portray.

True about hardware prices, though a difference is Sony/MS generally subsidize hardware at launch and make thin margins, while Nintendo charges for profit from the start. Maybe a better strategy, may look better, but again, it's not altruism, it's that they started higher margin to begin with. And Nintendo is cautious with trends. They get led by the bubbles too, they just hold back a generation before doing it to let everyone else take the falls first and use the lessons so they don't have to.

And as above, NINTENDO isn't laying off hundreds or thousands becaus they never bothered hiring them to begin with. They third party contracted them so that when a project is cancelled, or even releases, "Nintendo" never lays everyone off. They end the contract. What the contractor does with the employees no longer needed, well, insert Reggie "Not my problem" GIF.

I would say, Nintendo is "cleverer" than their peers, not necessarily that they're cleaner. Nintendo wrote the book on sketchy business before Silicon Valley was a thing. I never take anything they do at face value, albeit, Iwata was special, and his era marked a very different Nintendo.

Although I think we get divided into a camp where you think the current Nintendo generation is best ever and I think I'd count maybe 8 games that I feel are stand out games, while the rest became a soulless formulaic copy paste horror show indicating the point where Nintendo became a mobile developer. That's not to say that they have NO great games this gen, but I just don't get the hype.The catalogue on any other Nintendo system except the N64 seems so much more diverse and vibrant. I'd even take the Wii library which I thought I'd never say. And when the Switch launched I was 400% into it and thought it would be the best Nintendo ever. I ended up disappointed, and did not anticipate that.

That doesn't excuse Microsoft's own horror show, mind you. Or Sony's. But I can't say I have a great feeling about any of the big 3 this gen. Nintendo became a mobile dev, Microsoft half finishes everything and releases it 2 years late, and Sony just markets slop with so much budget people eventually believe it's good. But to me, Switch is the platform of choice for anybody that likes to paint everything in their home beige, and will argue that bisque does not count as beige.

Nintendo's selling better, and managing money better, that's one thing no one can take away from them. Of course it's also because they've perfected ensuring no value is on offer and every potential penny is extracted while also not looking like Dr. Evil while doing so to the masses.

@NEStalgia

"they do so by introducing a lot of very small "filler" projects, which are of a level of simplicity that would not pass on any other platform but theirs"

They're not filler, though. They're just not AAA. This mindset that first-party publishers only pump out BIG games is relatively new, and why delightful developers like Japan Studio were shuttered. And, frankly, it's probably why indies and smaller Jp devs thrive on Switch, as opposed to rival console platforms. A fun game is a fun game, even if the development budget doesn't compete with the GDP of a small country. Nintendo is the only one of the big three that really, deeply understands that fundamental truth.

"Nintendo doesn't buy and close developers all the time -DIRECTLY, but the implication they simply never cancel projects or teams that suggests isn't true. "

Never implied anything of the sort. Nintendo probably cancels projects all the time. What I said is they're not snapping up and shutting down entire development studios like other publishers. And they don't. Trying to equate that to the Mario & Luigi developer shuttering because of a run of bad game sales on 3DS is disingenuous, and you know it. There's a difference between snapping up developers only to close them down en masse like Microsoft or Embracer vs. not propping up failing studios that you're not responsible for.

"True about hardware prices, though a difference is Sony/MS generally subsidize hardware at launch and make thin margins, while Nintendo charges for profit from the start"

Agreed! Nintendo makes hardware that's affordable to begin with. Their business model is sustainable from the very beginning. I'm sure they're all very glad they didn't get sucked into the power console arms race that is skyrocketing prices for the competition's hardware.

"They get led by the bubbles too, they just hold back a generation before doing it to let everyone else take the falls first and use the lessons so they don't have to."

Well, that's the thing: not getting sucked in during a gold rush means not getting led by market bubbles. I don't mean they'll never go anywhere near new industry trends. They're already dipping their toes in the live service waters with the way they're releasing and persistently updating games now, and I fully expect a full-on live service title next gen. Done in their own Nintendo way.

"NINTENDO isn't laying off hundreds or thousands because they never bothered hiring them to begin with."

Yup. Responsible business choices lead to more ethical outcomes overall, it seems. Nintendo has no obligations to employees working for a third-party studio that they happen to have a contract with.

Although it's worth mentioning that Japanese business culture is more ethical in certain respects in general. Which is why, during the Wii U fiasco, Nintendo's top brass took severe pay cuts to avoid layoffs.

@Mustoe I could see it going either way. They clearly have a good thing going with the Switch concept, and there's a lot of potential in a more powerful hybrid device that isn't missing out on 90% of modern AAA games from third-party developers.

That said, the concept itself doesn't have the same wow factor anymore, and Switch has sold SO well that I could see it maintaining some level of momentum into next gen, potentially competing with Switch 2, depending on games and pricing.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the games. Switch wouldn't have exploded quite as violently that first year without classics like Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey. If Nintendo can load up the first year with exclusive killer apps again, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to inherit Nintendo's current brand momentum.

As far as console purchases go, only Switch 2 is of interest to me, and I'm still leaning away from getting one at launch due to the sheer number of games I already own and still need to play (plus, the Steam Deck fills the 'more powerful Switch' niche for me almost perfectly). That said, if the Switch 2 drops with unmissable bangers and costs $400 or less, I'll probably still be there day one.

@Ralizah Again, disagree. Nintendo's previous generations "small" games felt niche, not filler. The lowest effort game I could think of them having was Yoshi's Cookie on the NES. Switch by contrast is filled by games that feel practically AI generated, while even their "big" games short of Zelda, Odyssey, and Xenoblade feel increasingly simplified.

If they were charging $40, for the "filler" I could see it. The price of a 3DS title? Sure, time to get experimental. But they want AAA money for the small filler, too with a few exceptions. By the price tag they're setting the expectation the game should be treated like any AAA title, and if it falls short, it falls short. Don't want it to be judged as AAA? Don't price it as AAA. Price it there, and it should be judged there. You don't charge $5000 for a Casio watch and then expect people cut it some slack because, hey, it's not an Omega! Only Nintendo gets away with that because its fanbase is exactly the same as Disneys now. The only fundamental truth they understand is how to get into your wallet and stay there.

Also disagree on Alpha Dream. Nintendo was responsible for Alpha Dream's success or failure. They gave them their projects to work on. They just get plausible deniability at excising the losses. No they didn't buy studios just to shut them down. We know that "big corps" buy huge organizations just to obtain certain assets, patents, IPs then dispose of the rest of the company they never wanted to begin with and only bought to get certain properties. Or just to dispose of a competitor. Yes, Nintendo doesn't do that, they're not in a position to do that, and aren't in an industry that really works that way. That's good, but also apples and oranges to compare. Again not praising Microsoft and ABK, or Sony and Konica-Minolta, or Google and...well...everyone.

I do still strongly disagree on the contract situation. Those contractors workers are sent packing whenver a studio finishes or is cancelled by Nintendo just the same as Tango and Bungie. Nintendo just gets to PR distance themselves from it because "hey, wasn't us!" An unknown contractor gets to do it in the shadows. Like hiring a hitman "wasn't me, I didn't hold the weapon!"

The obvious exception is, yes Japan does do business differently, and it may not ALWAYS end that way, but that's not a Nintendo-caused difference.

I'd love to have the Nintendo back that existed between SNES to 3DS, but the Nintendo that has emerged since the Switch is from my perspective fusing very tightly with the mobile model and their output reeks of it. Again, some exceptions. But Nintendo is focused very tightly on what's big in Japan and especially what Japanese kids are into, and, that means mobile. I can understand why they'd chase the feel of mobile for their target audience. And I get why it's popular. But the more "mobile" Nintendo feels, the less satisfying I find most of their output. I'd give it about a dozen games that are big, high quality games worthy of the Nintendo name, and that's better than Sony/MS this gen, but people praise Nintendo too much as a business by just ignoring everywhere they're "modern industry" like everyone else. And people praise too much their filler games that are overpriced and under-quality, if they were any company but Nintendo using any IP but Nintendo (or Disney) IP, those games would not be so well received.

@HotGoomba Nintendo is so secretive about their outsourcing, but they've been doing it for years. To be fair, a lot of companies do. I think it should be more transparent. It's sort of unfair to the devs would bust their butts.