Former Blizzard President Gives Support To Phil Spencer Amidst Xbox Negativity

At what point does Phil get held responsible? The Xbox console is failing, Game Pass hasn't gained new subscribers in years, they laid off 2000 people at the start of the year, etc, and now this. I can't wait for people to try to run defense for Phil

The guy who got a "billion dollar payout" has nice things to say...
:/

Yeah, I don't think that the order to cut more jobs came from this guy, but I doubt he put up much of a fight either!

Yeah today was a baffling decision for the company and it lies with leadership. The company clearly has no idea how the gaming market works and that gamers are very attached to developers. Spencer is either a part of the problem or not doing enough to fix it.

He's got to go. Today they have ruined what little goodwill the community has for xbox. If they want to stay relevant they need to change course and Spencer has to be removed if anyone is to believe they're trying.

Thank you Mr suit Mike Ybarra. It is good to know that he is in fact human because sometimes it's hard to tell when you all act so soulless.

@RedShirtRod today's studio closures is a result of the CEO Nadella & board cutting costs. It's typical Nadella. As once ABK acquisition was completed & January's showcase was shown. Nadella pushed & changed the narrative. Spencer has kinda been pushed to one side.

The outrage is not about heart or soul or what not. It's about this being a stupid decision. I don't think anyone is complaining about the whole thing, the sore spot is Tango.

No one is taking the shutdown of Tango Gameworks well, me included.

Whomever made the actual call of shutting down Tango, you f#@%ed up. I'm canceling Game Pass. You will have to convince me to subscribe again, but that's going to be a hard sell.

The shareholders are now in charge. Phil not showing his face makes sense since he now has to explain himself. Decision was most likely not his but he still has to own it. He should of retired when he had the chance.

@somnambulance you mean the Xbox that is here today cause he stepped in and told higher up’s not to can it?

I get it, someone has to be the blame guy and thats why Phil get’s paid the big bucks, but if you think this wasn’t way above his pay scale that chopped the axe on those studios then i recommend taking a business class of company structure and decisions. Phil isn’t perfect as no one is. But he’s been a good dude for the industry and cares a lot. I bet he hates this more than you cause he knew those people and possibly some of their family.

Do we have to specify that he's a good human because it's Microsoft and we have to assume all their leaders are AIs? Maybe copilot made the decision to close the studios.

@RedShirtRod Phil doesn't need to go. The whole problem is that Phil's already been removed. Like @cragis0001 Said, you can see the narrative change ever since abk. This is classic nadella for sure. And there were business articles just last week really about ai but how apparently despite being long gone, Bill Gates has actually been closely advising nadella all along especially since 2017. So the man behind the curtain pulling the strings is more and more the original cretin Gates.

Phil had a plan and vision for Xbox and it's why we were all here. But Phil's plan wasn't as profitable as Amy Hood, nadella, And Gates wanted, and corporate started calling the shots. Wouldn't be surprised to see Phil leave and end up in the indie space like Sony's s Shaun Layden when Jim and corporate screwed him over too.

@MinervaX Better yet smash your Xbox with a hammer on video that will show them…. Or they will just drive back to their 10 million dollar home and take a nice warm shower and sleep fine. It won’t matter what we do as MS will carry on as they wish and you do have the right to support it or not. But nothing we do to them matters and why take away from our enjoyment, the world isn’t a fair place and things like this happen. How many on here walk to work when their car company lay’s off thousands of workers?

@NEStalgia go with me on this one…. You think MS was like we need to one up Sony selling a game in over 100 countries where we don’t have PSN but we will force them to have a PSN account or they can’t play.

MS: nice play Sony…. Phil go announce 4 studio closures.

Ok…. Ok…. Now yell at me! HAHHA

@HonestHick reread my post. I understand layoffs. This is about stupid choices. Shut down studios that deserve it, like 343.

And I am not setting my money on fire. I'll continue using my Xbox to play all the games I own. I just won't be paying more on Game Pass. I got plenty to enjoy without having to give them money every month despite the fact that I don't actually play GP games every single month. They were getting a lot of my money out of pure good will. Thats over with.

@NEStalgia on a more serious note, when Nintendo Switch 2 specs come out and everyone is upset cause it’s not as powerful as they had hoped. I just hope everyone remembers they aren’t in these types of conversations. They are still just sitting back and counting cash.

"Nothing lasts forever." "When one for closes, another opens."

Why has the video game industry turned into a bunch of melodramatic crybabies? It's been a real turn off lately...to the point, I no longer want to have any part in the culture. From gamers crying about woke and censorship, to their entitled opinions about every little thing. It's like people are addicted to sharing their opinions on social media.

Good riddance to all of it.

Oh yes, poor Phil.
He's probably wiping his crocodile tears with 1000 dollar bills.

These rich *****, only care about money. Nothing else.

ABK is too big, when you buy something so big it is difficult not to be "infected" with its business culture.

I don't think this is Phil Spencer's thing, when you had a small ship you can direct it wherever you want, but after acquiring ABK the ship is too big, there are too many people involved and the importance of gaming in the quarterly results It's very heavy, I don't think Phil has the control he used to.

@MinervaX i mean I respect that. You got to do what you got to do. I am just saying we think it’s a stupid layoff, they have more inside numbers and future plans knowledge that at least somewhat lead to the decision. That’s my point. It still sucks. But it won’t hurt them for years to come when the heavy hitters start to come out. Not sure what closing 343 would do after they just cleaned house of the ones making the mess. There is a rumor that 343 is switching to Unreal Engine 5 and is ready to “soon” show of some Halo. They fixed up 343 and truthfully Halo Infinite has been really fun lately.

@PROPS Thank you. You said it better than me but that was my intention. Well said!! 😊

@HonestHick 343 is a sunk cost fallacy at this point. How m any times have they "fixed" things and "next entry will be the good one"?

I'm sure if they could "fix" 343, they could also had fixed any issues that was going on with Tango. Shutting it down does not only means them giving up on Japan directly but also indirectly. Whom is going to trust them now? Even if it was easy, what Japanese studio will sell out to MS now?

@PROPS
Good riddance? We are only getting started. Woke video games are going the way of Disney, and it’s fun to clown on them. PROPS to Grummz.

@PROPS bye

@HonestHick I really don't know what switch 2 will be. I can't imagine just a more powerful switch will really sell the way they need it to. But I can't imagine what else the might be able to surprise with.

@HonestHick sad thing is I believe that conversation actually happened after the psn thing lol

awwww, these poor microsoft billionaires.

But I am confused to why shut down their only Japanese studio. They'll never have another chance to acquire a Japanese studio. I think they should have kept them and put them to good use. I know they mainly make horror games, but they could have tried something different.

@CutchuSlow Microsoft will never be popular in Japan that's why. So to Nadella & the board it's an easy decision. Why invest.
The whole open platform is Nadella's idea. It's the same strategy they pulled before Windows Phone failed & they pulled the plug. Including writing off acquisitions, mass layoffs etc. So it's just history repeating to me.

I'm sure he is. But still, tango game works was one of their best studios. I honestly don't get it. But I suppose i don't need to. I play games, I don't run game corporations.

@cragis0001 Honestly I don't even think it's that deep. I think it was purely graphing the numbers, costs, and potential costs and anything below a certain line gets cut.

The only, and I mean ONLY thing Microsoft cares about right now is pumping as much money as possible into AI and cutting anything that doesn't grow AI to get more money to pump into AI. Nothing, absolutely nothing else matters at all. Guaranteed copilot will be worked into Xbox somehow. Guaranteed.

It's not just Xbox they're screwing over, it's Windows, too. I think nadella or Gates via nadella are on some unhinged warpath to remake the world.

So some think it’s ‘entitled’ to share opinions on sites designed for opinions to be shared? Well gosh, you learn something new every day for sure.

@cragis0001 Well, it's a different story, WP was financially unsustainable, Xbox generates huge revenues and profits every quarter.

I think the question they would have asked themselves in their offices is "Why settle for being the new Playstation or Nintendo when we can be the new Tencent?" And well, after the ABK acquisition they are in that point, being the largest gaming business in the world, even if that means hurting the culture of studios and players that Phil had created after all these years.

Phil will be fine. It's the employees MS leadership let go that need assistance.

@cragis0001 yeah but I was thinking that they don't need to be popular in Japan, they can make Japanese games that's popular in the west.

"He's a good human" is exactly what a robot would say.

@NEStalgia @cragis0001 I have no doubt Nadella has put pressure on Spencer and forced layoffs. There is no way though he pushed Spencer to say he fully supports Tango to do games they want to do.

Spencer needed to do his job and explain to Nadella and Co. that the road they're going down isn't going to pay off. If the head of gaming can't convince the CEO that he's making choices that will possibly ruin the gaming division then he shouldn't be the head of gaming.

@CaptainCluck The Last of Us Part 2, Spider-Man 2, the Life is Strange series, etc. all say hi. All of which have sold millions.

The anti-“woke” crowd is full of the most insufferable blowhards I’ve witnessed on the internet.

Shouldn't Sara Bond be taking the heat? She's literally in the job Phil had when we all bitched him out last year. But I suppose we can't to that or else.... you know.

@PROPS pretty much. I mean Microsoft like Sony are freaking companies! They make business decisions. People lose jobs. It's part of life. People need to get over this crap.

Are those same people crying about these studios closing doing the same for every other company out there that fires or lays people off? I highly doubt it. They only care because it might affect some development of some game they may have wanted to play. Otherwise, it really isn't hurting them.

Aww lets feel sad for the poor multi-millionaire corp leader.

It's time for new Management, Phil did a good job keeping it all alive but we're at the point where his decisions are not working and the brand needs to fresh new direction.

Question: When do the Xbox executives who don't have a vision for the gaming division get shut down?

If you are that high up in a major corporation then it's a prerequisite that you don't have any feelings whatsoever when decisions like this are made. These people live in a different world to most of us. I'm also sure these decisions are coming from above Phil but if you really feel anything for the thousands out of work then just resign. You've got plenty for early retirement if nothing else.

@PROPS Just consume product, and get excited for next product!

@JokerBoy422 I kinda feel sorry for Sarah. I didn't like her at first but she was growing on me. But she was being groomed to be the next leader and instead she got dumped the hot potato made of poop and told "your turn"

@RedShirtRod That's just it, I think Phil's vision of Xbox was let tango make the games they make, balance the books with gp, everything is fine. Corporates mandate is "Max profit purge everything below this line on the graph"

I sort of agree but that's the problem, the excs aren't listening to their division Managers anymore theyre just looking directly at the balance sheets and acting directly on whatever maximizes the quarter. There might as well not be a "CEO of gaming" the business suite is making the decisions themselves and Phils job is expected to be a rubber stamp. It's depressing. He had a good business design and corporate would rather cash it on for a few good quarters to cover for Windows 11s catastrophic 24% market share.

@MinervaX I mean you aren’t wrong. But times and money change things quicker than the wind. Today was not good, in fact ugly and bad but tomorrow much as in our own lives can change and we Xbox fans have seen worse. Before Xbox i hope all these devs find jobs, then after MS to start revealing what it is they truly want us to buy into. It better be good as today was another black eye to overcome.

@NEStalgia sad thing is I believe that conversation actually happened after the psn thing lol

Well you went with me on it. I mean why not have some fun in all the bad news today? Switch 2 will be great but many will be disappointed cause it’s not X Y and Z powerful. But you don’t seem them in these struggles. For a reason they know thier budget and goals and stick to them better than Sony and MS could ever imagine.

@somnambulance you may be right. We don’t know this for fact tho. I think after the checks were written he lost some of charge.i ain’t giving him an out. He very well might have had impact on the decision and that makes sense. But i was saying it wasn’t him and him alone. Nor do i think he started the talks. MS and Xbox are very focused on what makes big bank and what doesn’t. That isn’t even Phil’s style by his play list. This dude loves his A-AA games.

@HonestHick Yeah it was Yokoi in the 90s that warned against the tech arms race where costs escalate and customers are still never happy. Nintendo heeded it. Sony didn't. And Ms went somewhere between ps and pc.

Idk I think others pointed out the real problem and real background issue. This whole setup tells us corporate is in control, and corporate took control because Phil's vision really failed. That's the subtext everyone's really bothered about. Tango and arkane, yes. But really confirmation that not only did Phil's Xbox, the one we liked, fail, but that corporate won't be straight with us and tell us what's what as keeps stringing us along neither confirming nor denying their direction change and what they intend.

Still may wait for June and see what they have to say. If it's smoke and mirrors we know they're lying about anything and everything. If they have solid statements from Phil, then we're in Limbo still because we know he has no power and corporate changes his plans .

What i do know is I truly abhor nadella. Guys a slimy forked tongue serpent that would sell his grandmother for a nickel. Not that I liked Jim any better

@NEStalgia Nadella wishes he was Apple as does 70% of MS. Apple ate their lunch on the iPhone. You know the $600 dollar phone no one would buy by a sweaty running around the stage tongue out Ballmer. Since that day MS has been chasing Apple not the other way around. Had to point that out.

I want to know if MS said Tango is shut down but we are keep leads and senior Dev’s and will rebrand them. I doubt it as they could have said that. But still a chance. If not they will join their former bosses on his studio. MS is a MESS right now. They need this showcase and some announcements after to turn this fiscal year around. They are still more interesting to me than Sony outside of the PS5 Pro which is looking more and more like the new home of many Series X/S players when GTA6 launches. Gears of war collection comes there and i might even date them for a bit. I don’t know yet. But MS have little and MS is a company that can’t front run cause they follow/buy more than they lead.

@somnambulance Todd's not involved, he never had any say at Zenimax proper or other owned studios like Arkane, Tango, id, etc, only his own studio. He didn't even know about the MS buyout until they told him from above. The names are confusing. He runs "Bethesda Game Studio" the top studio, but not "Bethesda Softworks" the enveloping publisher or Zenimax Media the parent that's the part MS replaced. The fact that they just all use the one word "Bethesda" logo makes the hierarchy confusing. He's a studio head, not a corporate exec at Bethesda/Zeni (now MS.) But he was there from the start so he has a lot of clout. I'd say like Miyamoto, who only ran his R&D1 division, but still had influence in other divisions despite not being officially a manager for them (previously, now he's "creative fellow" and oversees all divisions at a consultant level)

I think you raise the most critical point though. Closing these studios isn't a reason at all to jump platform. Tango was headless after Mikami left suddenly. Arkane put out a massive flop and rumor is they were working on a Marvel game....it may be like EA cutting all the licensed games and closing any studio working on a Disney license. The other two weren't closed, their projects were cancelled and they were reassigned as support studios. Technically this news isn't really that bad or out of the ordinary these days. It's just that it adds onto the lack of communications, vague statements, and ominous portents of corporate control to create a bleaker picture than the one from days ago and undermines a lot of what they sold GP and the consoles on. I think for many of us, the doubts were legit but we still believed they'd stay the course, but with this it's that last straw that says...maybe the doubts are valid. In some ways it's the same communications problem as always. If they got out in front of this and explained, along with all the other things maybe the optics wouldn't look so dire. And why drop the studio weeks before they were to release a DLC and a big patch? Why not just wait until that dropped to do it? Why do it right after dropping Hifirush on PS and praising the sales numbers? It's abrupt and arbitrary. That shakes confidence.

And the big issue is, that combines, valid or not, to a lot of people jumping ship. Which combines into the already shaky Xbox relationship with developers jumping ship. And Tango probably combines into Japanese developers that Phil spent a decade courting, that were finally arriving, jumping ship. I buy 70% Japanese games. I make sure to buy them all on Xbox. If we're going back to half of them not showing....why bother? And MS not addressing any of this and double talking when they do is what makes it frustrating. yet from a hardware perspective....they still may have the best actual hardware/software/ecosystem value proposition especially if the next machine is really a windows PC machine. And I still dont think I want to see what PS is like without Xbox. We have enough hints to know it wouldn't be pleasant. We'd likely have a $650 minimum PS5 with no BC and paid ports of every PS4 game....in the best case scenario.

@HonestHick Yeah, I'm still trapped in that cycle of, price/features/functionality wise XB may yet still be the best matching ecosystem to my use. PS I haven't been happy with, though they'll have new leadership so who knows. And PC sounds lovely but the numbers really just don't work out very well, and I already have an established library on XB+PS vs 0 on PC so I'd be starting fresh. I may give them until June. Though they probably won't talk hardware, but if the whole showcase is still just PC PC PC oh and console too....we still don't know where we stand. Or maybe we do.

@NEStalgia yeah of the 2 consoles. I would stick with Xbox for my gaming needs.the same with the news that Gears collection, my most wanted Xbox title for 2-3 years now might be coming day and date to PS5. But i don’t want to play Gears on the Dual Sense i don’t think. On the weekends i can easily play online Gears for 4-5 hours or more pending on what i have or not have to do that day and i just think the PS controller would eat my wrist and thumbs up. So i am “stuck” on Xbox. I think the June Showcase will be good, maybe even great. But they are going to have to build a lot off that show for a while to get some good news swirling.

The last PC i owned was a Dell laptop around 20 years ago, i think i was 18-19 when i bough it. It blue screened on me and they wouldn’t warranty repair it. So i look at my iPod and said well here goes a lot of money and drove to the Apple Store and bought a high end MacBook Pro, that still works to this day if you have it plugged in as the battery is shot. So it’s safe to say i too own 0 PC games. If and it’s still an if i build a PC. I will only buy the games on it that i want to run with horsepower. Now if i can pick up smaller titles here and there on the cheap then sure. A lot of my PC purchase hinges on what does Xbox show, say and if we get a peak into the future plans in 2025 and beyond here in the next 1-2 years. Don’t in those 1-2 years i will be setting lose cash aside so if i do go PC. I will have a good chunk saved up. But if i go PC and really like it for more than just performance, then outside of Nintendo it is likely i wouldn’t come back to PS ever and more than likely Xbox as well.

@HonestHick XB seemed to be a sweet spot. But that assumes you can believe what they say, and I think that's what went wrong here, ioi highlighted it in the other thread. They were just flat out lying even a mere few weeks ago and then just did the opposite of what they said. So if I'm buying games on Xbox's store based on the promise of preserving my digital library long term, which is why I buy on Xbox.....does that promise mean a thing? Are they acting in good faith when they say that, or in 5 quarters do they "update" that vision to "reflect the current reality"?

But is PS an alternative? I don't really trust PS6 will definitely play PS5 games. I don't really trust that PS7 will play PS5 games. So not really.

Is Steam a better alternative? Well you can build a system around SteamOS and a steam Deck and all that, but, then a game you want, say a Sony game, may only work on their own launcher at some point. Which won't run on SteamOS. Then the Deck is as much a dead end as a Nintendo for the task. So then you're back to standard Windows PCs. Game preservation is much better, but if you're spending an extra $2000+ every 5 years than you would have, have you saved money vs just rebuying the games you wanted every gen? Maybe, maybe not.

People praise Nintendo, and I love Nintendo much of the time, but.....most of the Switch's success was just selling WiiU games and older again at full price on more popular hardware. The only game from Nintendo I know of that I'm looking forward to is paper mario. It's the same problem as sony, where the most exciting things are PS2/GCN games resold at higher price than originally.

PC, no matter how much I want to like it, no matter how much PC enthusiasts spin it, you still have the problem that a good GPU costs more than a whole PS5/XSX and is obsolete just as fast. The value proposition is sunk before you begin.

So...you build a new PC now, everything is good, you're willing to use an out of date GPU. And then in 2 years new games require Windows 12, and Windows 12 requires hardware AI, and your 2 year old PC doesn't have that, so you throw out your $3800 PC and build a new $3800 PC just to get Win12 on to get the new launcher to play the new game. Then 2 years later you find out that the new game uses the new DirectX that needs the newer version of the hardware AI than you have becase the one you bought was the standard that was abandoned and replaced by a different one after you bought it. Too bad, you backed the wrong horse. Return to Go. Tagging @Ralizah for that last part because that sooooo much reflects the era I remember. Rigs lasted 2-3 years tops before they were too obsolete to run new games. Or just started breaking down.

@NEStalgia great post and a lot to unpack there. Let’s start with Xbox. I hear your points and they are valid and reasonable. But may i add something to it? Everything and anything is subject to change in the world. MS is doing lot’s of work on BC and it’s the core of Xbox, for it to go I believe the box itself has to go. Now i could be wrong cause MS exes talk a lot out of both sides of their mouths. But BC isn’t my direct worry as i think it’s a core feature of the console at this point and the backlash of losing it would sink the brand.

Next up… PS6, I believe PS6 will play PS5 games, PS4 i am not sure i wouldn’t see why not as we are seeing since the PS4 that Sony is building the same PC in a box as MS and the work to get those games to run should be quick and easy. It was the PS1-PS2 that nailed BC right. Then PS3 cell was a mess and now they are back on track. They know not to restart peoples digital library as it’s a way out of the ecosystem.

Nintendo: i too like Nintendo most of the time. Granted a lot of their motives are for profit and kids. So as an older seasoned gamer some of that just won’t appeal to you and i. We aren’t the target on most decisions. As for Wii-U ports. Well that software was built and it didn’t get a chance to sell, so it was smart for them to carry it forward also i might add people forget. Nintendo wasn’t sure Switch would be the popular. They were hoping it was the right move but certainly didn’t see it as a slam dunk seller. When it did start to sell and show it was a hit, those Wii-U games sold faster than toilet paper during covid and still hasn’t stopped selling. Their next challenge is can they improve upon those franchises and sell well again. I think most will.

Last up PC: good ole master race PC. Yes it’s insane expensive and always changing. Fragmented and thats something i don’t like about it. I need 12 launchers. I don’t love that. Then the DirectX new version’s. Ugh!!! It’s what i don’t like about android phones. To get the newest security and feature updates i have to buy a new phone or get the update via my phone provider. It’s all just a mess compared to hitting update on iOS and we all have the same os features. Sorry i am slowly turning this into a mobile phone rant. Back to PC. I love gaming, but i also Bass fish as my outdoor hobby and shoot guns at ranges. You want to talk about money. It makes gaming look like pennies on the dollar. So i really don’t need to up my expenses on my indoor hobby 3X. I will if i have to. But my hope is Xbox figures it out and is a great option for years to come. Not sure i like the stick layout of the Steam deck. Never held one so i can’t say. But it looks to PS to me. Nintendo and Xbox with the off set sticks is my happy place. Not that i can’t shoot and use a PS controller. I can, but not as well nor as enjoyable.

@HonestHick With BC, I'll back that up and say BC is the core of PHIL'S Xbox. But this isn't Phil's Xbox anymore, It's Satya, Amy and BIll's Xbox. Is BC the core of their Xbox? We don't know. Because they don't tell us what they plan. The decide it at 2:00AM on a Sunday morning based on analytics. Even if it's their plan today, is it their plan for next year? Depends what the analytics say. It's hard to sell a product without a commitment on that product. Ask Sony, that's how they treated the tech in their TVs and BD players. that's why Samsung and LG devoured their business. When they say HDMI 2.1 they mean HDMI 2.1. Not HDMI 2.1 if we sell enough of them otherwise too bad.

I don't think random direction changes on a product are "subject to change" when there is integrity between the producer and consumer. That's the difference between good and bad business. You're an Apple fan. If Apple sold an iPhone then changed the vision of what an iPhone is, then changed store policy so that purchases don't apply across OS versions, then focused on macbook and ignored iPhone, then started putting ads on the unlock screen, then decided that the new iOS that was going to go on the iPhone 12 now isn't because they changed their minds, you'd probably not stay an Apple fan. A product has to have a clear direction, feature set, policy, that one does not need to expect will randomly change at any moment, otherwise it's simply a poor product.

Now I think Phil and Sarah know this. Sarah is telling us until she's blue that preserving our library is their focus. But the problem is it's clear that's no longer Sarah's decision to make, nor Phils. They can tell us that's their plan all they want, but if Amy waves a hand and Satya comes down and says "our analytics AI tells us we see a 1.3% increase if we just kill BC" then within 24 hours the new strategy becomes "BC of select titles" and then the text of BC gets removed entirely as titles start vanishing from the library page and Jez Corden writes a tweet that he heard an inside source say they're killing BC and then we end up here yelling about it.

I really don't know where Nintendo goes. They were really going downhill for years until WiiDS. Both of those sold because it was the mobile games crowd before mobile happened. But that ship sailed. WiiU failed. Switch hit it big, but the novelty of handheld hybrid was unique only to them. Now PC and maybe XB and maybe PS get on that train. What's Nintendo's unique USP other than that it's handheld? Nothing, really, other than their games. And they've been coasting on rereleases mixed with some new games for a long time now. What happens if Switch 2 doesn't really capture sales like 1 because a "hybrid" isn't new and trendy anymore? I'm not sure what to expect from them.

Yeah, the Deck has a PS-ish layout though it has the trackpad that can be a stick. Then there's the Asus handheld PCs which aren't locked to steam but have less runtime than a sony controller...

@NEStalgia well yeah i get it, if they back track all these visions for the box you, me and many others are leaving. They better know that. BC is huge for players like yourself. If i was them i wouldn’t touch much more studios or features. This backlash is enough for awhile i would hope. I am going to stay positive on this one and just say these moves were for the better of their AAA space. Even tho i still think losing Tango was not needed. But then i read today Perfect Dark is still in dev hell. Thats not good that alongside Fable was going to be a nice comeback for them.

Nintendo is a hard one to guess. I think Switch 2 sells less than Switch. But how much? If it’s only 15 million even 20 Nintendo will be more than ok with over 100+ million Switch 2’s. Now if Switch bombs they could have an issue on their hands. But i can’t see it not being a successful console and make them loads of cash. Could that happen? Sure but i ain’t betting my money on it.

@NEStalgia My setup has been doing pretty well for me since 2021 or so. My 2015 rig was pretty viable for around six years or so tbh. It's more expensive than just buying a console, but you also have a lot more freedom of choice. Especially if you build your own.

if you don't cheap out on components, there's no reason you even have to upgrade most of em when you change out your GPU, either.

@HonestHick This goes along with other big MS corporate decisions of the past few years, I think, indicating Nadella's lost is flipping mind. You're a mac guy, you don't know, but Windows 11, launched in 2020, decided to require hardware had a TPM as a minimum requirement. This meant basically it could not be installed on any PC made before holiday 2019. They released and announced this in Spring 2020 (You know, at the time when no PCs were on shelves still at all after the big tech grab and chip shortage? Yeah.) It also killed hardware BC of windows.

As a result, 4 years later, Windows 11 has something like 24% market share. Windows 10 has 76%. They're end of lifing Win10 on schedule. But will continue to make security updates for 3 years. With a subscription monthly. That increases annually. And only for 3 years. Now we're not talking xbox's we're talking business OS. Business that own tens of thousands of pre-2019 computers that does the job just fine, that now has to either pay MS a monthly fee to keep them secure, or tens of millions of computers worldwide need to be thrown out all at once and replaced. Which is an ecological disaster. Or just pay Uncle Satya every month. Meanwhile the latest Windows 11 update forces ads into the start menu (it's not just Xbox dashboard anymore!), disables being able to create a local user account outside enterprise versions, so you need an online MS account (and people thought Helldivers 2 PSN was bad!) which is a mess for businerss not running enterprise. And they also broke support for VPNs (they're fixing that.) Also a corporate crisis.

And all of this happened after at Win10 launch, Uncle Satya told us Windows 10 was the last windows and they were going to simply have updates to it forever more. Meanwhile they keep playing with selling the Windows OS as a monthly service.

So with that backdrop, knowing Uncle Satya has pretty much taken over our Xboxes....This guy has a great history of making a promise with a straight face and then just ignoring it like he never said it, exhibiting arguably pathological behavior.

I'm not saying I'm giving up on Xbox yet, because, again, looking at alternatives, each just replaces one problem with another. Xbox may still remain the most practical. But like Windows, you use it while looking over your shoulder and sleeping with one eye open because you never know what random change you'll wake up to.

Nintendo, I don't see them doing as well on Switch 1. 1 was lightning in a bottle and had lockdown ACNH boosting it. And reselling the old games a 3rd time won't move as many copies. It won't bomb, but IDK how they're going to hold their position without being inventive again...and I"m not sure what's left to invent. Quietly I still dream of Nintendo re-entering budget VR and making it mainstream, because nothing is mainstream until Nintendo does it!

@Ralizah more expensive than 1 console is offset by replacing 2 consoles. The question is of course if it does. And how often you need to upgrade.

And GPUs are I'm sure different now. I never upgraded a GPU ever except one build because within 2 years of every build I made the graphics bus was replaced with a new one. So new GPU meant new mob, which meant new CPU and usually new RAM format as well. I realize that's not the case these days, but then you have the whole Win11+TPM thing, probably Win12+ AI thing.... might be re-entering that world a bit.

The big question is how much did you spend on that 2021 rig that's Pretty well 3 years later.

@NEStalgia Well, the GPU was under $300 (RX 6650 XT). Under $100 for my processor (Ryzen 5 3600). New mobo was probably $100 or so. RAM and SSD were a little over $100. My power supply was already adequate with my previous rig.

Budget build, obvs, but I'm only going for 1080p60.

@Ralizah Ok, yeah, that was a super budget build with a 6650, it's more like a beefy Series S than a PS5/XSX comparative PC.

I'm far from a gfx snob but I have to say I value my 4k60. Thing is I need 4k60 more than I need lots of shaders and fx. My happiest looking game right now is FFXIV on XSX where it runs 4k, dynamic res on, but usually stays near 60fps and drops usually have more to do with network where lots of players gather around the crystal than the main game environment. Tack sharp, beautiful, not fancy graphics, just plain gfx running at full res at fluid fps.

And they're going to break it with Dawntrail and the gfx overhaul that'll add textures and lighting details etc etc etc that'll send fps plummeting I'm sure.

Thing to never do: Play XIV at 4k60, then switch to XVI when maintenance is ongoing at glorious 30-ish-fps and like, maybe 1440 at best internal. It looks mushy, it feels choppy. I think I'd pay monthly to play XIV forever just to only have to see a well performing game lol

I'm honestly not sure if XIV plays better on XB than it does on PS5, last time I tried on PS5 when they first dropped the PS5 specific build it was a choppy stuttery mess. It's butter smooth on XSX. Maybe it is on PS now. Can't try because I stupidly created a new Squeenix account for Xb, have most of my progress on it, and my PS4 is permalinked to an old Squeenix account so I'd have to create a new PSN account and rebuy the game just to play XIV on PS. Grr.

Still I'm shocked you could build a PC that could still be doing that decently for that money at all. That's less than PS5 Pro will cost. How is it playing "new" games (assuming your "new" games are more demanding than Atlus games )

@NEStalgia you just explained why I’ve been a Mac user for 20 years.HAHA. I use Windows at my accounting job. It’s ok. There’s things i like about it better than Mac but it’s small things that don’t mean much to my usage, at least at home. Work wise could be another point of topic. I give Mac OS 8/10 and Windows 6/10 so it’s not as if Apple is just whipping Windows. But as far as business practices, upgrades, security, VPN, etc etc this is where i give windows a 4/10 and again 8/10 for the Mac. I agree MS’s leadership is off the wall inconsistent. Which does concern me for Xbox as it’s clear as soon as the ink dried on the near $100 billion in studio buyouts, this was no longer just Phil knocking on their doors and giving them a quick update to the console business and them say ok ok good ok and back to Azure talk. They are now looking at every dollar and every metric and much like you i am concerned. Cause i don’t trust those people. I like Phil, i think you know i am on record on here and Push saying i like Phil. He’s not perfect as no one is. But i like him, but he had no choice but to ask for money from the higher up’s. At least that is my take on the matter. No one they were getting into a arms race with Sony with 5 studios and keeping the motto of Halo, Gears and Forza box. So here we are. I want to say we are going to be ok once they get all their ducks in a row for how all these studios look and operate. But i fear there is more to come and it will likely be more layoffs and shuffling. Sucks but thats my gut feeling. Same could be said of Sony, people forget they have shut down studios as well. At 4% profit margins they are walking a tight rope and could see issues ahead. They just don’t open their mouths quite as often as MS and when they do they only put one foot in it VS MS goes both feet down the hatch. MS has the IP’s and soon a handheld to have a wonderful ecosystem. Just stay out of your own way please MS.

Nintendo: maybe i am just seeing green and not Xbox green but cash money. Nintendo is just worth so much and they rarely lose money on anything. So i see the Switch bare minimum being a success with the likely scenario of it being another cash cow. The handheld Nintendo faithful alone make this thing profitable as heck for the big N. Will we see their top IP’s stay in the top 10 sales for 5-7 years like this past software lineup? I don’t think so but maybe Mario Kart. The others will still be large money makers and just the thought of getting a Mario game that has PS4 level or better graphics has me excited enough to throw my cash their way. However don’t listen to much to my Nintendo words, i was a diehard Wavebird and GameCube fan. I was so ignorant i wanted a GameCube 2. I loved playing that thing. Maybe it was my age at the time. But man i loved my GC. Zelda Wind Waker is my favorite in the series, so yeah as i said take everything i am saying about Nintendo with a huge gran of salt. Xbox i feel like i have a better finger on. Even tho they are becoming the hardest to predict.

@NEStalgia Eh. The GPU is good enough. For example, I can play Cyberpunk 2077 at med-high settings at 60+ fps with little issue. Elden Ring ran at decent settings with 60+ fps as well.

Actually, looking at benchmarking videos, it seems like pretty much every current-gen game with an adequate PC port runs well enough (around 60fps) on my setup, even if not all of them can be graphically maxed out at the same time.

Upscaling tech will also make it where older cards can perform adequately for longer. Although NVIDIA cards have a leg up with that, since DLSS is quite a bit better than FSR.

Although you are right that the majority of the games I play are lower spec. AAA stuff just doesn't appeal to me. But I do like having the ability to play those games if I want to.

You can save a LOT of money building modestly and not dumping resources down the 4K rabbit hole.

@HonestHick Yeah, I like Phil and I like the product he was designing, before corporate replaced it with a different product. If Phil jumped to Amazon and announced they're making a new console tomorrow, I'd preorder.

" But i like him, but he had no choice but to ask for money from the higher up’s. At least that is my take on the matter. No one they were getting into a arms race with Sony with 5 studios and keeping the motto of Halo, Gears and Forza box. So here we are. "

And sadly it backfired so hard. What we believed and I think Phil believed is they were buying studios to make game pass exclusives and drive xbox console and cloud sales. What actually happened was corporate decided to just not bother trying to drive xbox and gp sales with it and just cash in on owning top IP to flood the market with. So $100b later, Xbox is still a halo, gears, forza box, now run by the call of duty team. Phil was trying to challenge PS, and Satay decided if you can't bet 'em join 'em. Money wise, he's not wrong. And I still don't think even Satay has any intent to exit hardware itself, but, like Surface, he's ok with it being an also-ran hardware and not a serious market disruptor because going with the flow is more profitable.

"one foot" LOL, nah when Jim was there they went two feet and a hand. Now that Totoki's in we'll get a "Please understand" once a year. Still will be interesting what new leadership does at Sony though. Nadella style status quo guys, or visionary leaders?

Nintendos' biggest achilles heel right now is twofold. First, this is the first time they have had only one revenue stream and palatform since 1988. When consoles sank they always had handhelds to fall back on. Now it's one platform so they can afford no weakness. People laugh at WiiU but forget 3DS carried them just fine during that time. They can't have that again. The second problem is the only unique property the Switch has is that it's a big-screen handheld that runs console games and docks on the TV. But that's becoming less of a rarity starting with Chinese clones, then Deck, now likely MS, and of course the Asus. Different market? Yeah. But it's not a one of a kind market now, that blue ocean is getting redder. And Nintendo can't coast another 7 years on a 2022 era tablet released in 2025 while competitors move into their territory. But where else do they have to go? Handheld was always their domain, even phil said they didn't do a handheld because there's no point competing with Nintendo. But now there is. That might be a problem.

Of course they do have the IP, but they also said that the current hardware is basically fine for their games forever. That tells me they're not looking at innovating or changing the formula much. I.E. Iwata's gone. Super Mario World remake with HDR for $70 incoming! I don't think they'll fail on switch 2, but I think we'll see erosion, and I don't have a clue how they can evade that without doing something innovative in the hardware space. Otherwise, why have Nintendo hardware if it's just a phone with a built in controller and access to Nintendo games? If anyone can find a blue ocean in gaming it's Nintendo, or used to be. But has the industry matured too much for that? They used to set the tone.

Still...maybe it's the wrong bet, but I still feel problems or not VR is the final frontier of gaming. One more huge transformation. But at the price and niche it is it won't happen. Nintendo could make everyone need to try VR and kickstart a burgeoning me-too VR market. But it's not for everyone. "Second pillar time?"

@Ralizah Maybe. But then the financial question returns to, why bother when there's a $500 4k rabbit hole box in a cool, quiet, power efficient package just sitting there already? Now, next gen if they jack the console prices up to basically match PC pricing for equivalent, the equation might change. But by then I'll have an even bigger console digital library. sigh

Of course console 4k means 1440p 30.... Somehow you're doing 1080p60 on that weak sauce GPU, so I'm still a bit perplexed.

@NEStalgia I like being able to provide overhead for better performance by lowering settings and the resolution. I also like having my games tied to a more stable online service. And being able to play nearly everything on my Steam Deck. And customize controllers how I like (NEVER going back to playing games with shooting on consoles, ugh). etc. etc.

But yeah, the consoles will be your best option for cheap 4K gaming. I have no use for 4K, though, and am not really looking to increase my expenses unnecessarily.

Maybe it's the Nintendo fan in me, but I'm just not that concerned about visual fidelity.

@NEStalgia Nintendo is rumored to have an extra button on the joycon’s. Not sure what that does but maybe it’s their differential from other devices. Now is it any fun or just a gimmick i don’t know. Is it only on one or both, which i think the report said and i forgot. Anyways have to see what it amounts too.

Yeah Phil is a good dude, as for the rest of the bunch let’s see what their vision is, which I would guess will change 4 times a year. On a positive note i am excited for the June Showcase. I hope we get a surprise or two and what’s up with the new controller. I really want that as you know i have a thing for controllers. Especially Xbox ones. Just the quieter buttons and sticks alone will make it more enjoyable. Dare i say a little more premium feeling. Otherwise i think we have to sit back and see how many more jobs AI and budgeting take from both Sony and MS.

@somnambulance yeah exactly, I can't tell if it's intentional or incompetence. But they're really feeding it. The fact that they STILL haven't even commented, at all, on any of this. Who does PR from behind? Even awful corporate rhetoric is better pr than just silently ignoring the flames outside the window.

@HonestHick an extra button. It better be an interesting button. Nintendo is the last company I'd expect would be making more complex inputs unless it's like a scroll wheel or something wacky. Or a dedicated Twitter button

Still curious about if xb says anything about hardware at all. In theory its not the time but if the get out there and just show games you know the discussion will turn to when it's coming to PlayStation. And if they say "launches exclusively on PC and Xbox" with the keyword launches, we know where we stand.

@Ralizah lol to me resolution + fps = fidelity, the rest of the fx don't matter. Keep the shadows give me res. Was the same on my PC days 1600x1200 , push the limits, wheeee!

@NEStalgia yeah true and who knows if that button is real and or what it is. But it seems like Nintendo will at the least try some gimmick to make the Switch 2 stand out. Seems like a play they would make.

@NEStalgia it's no secret Microsoft wanted out of the Xbox hardware business. Peter Moore said they have been discussing it since the end of the 360 era. I bet Nadella was one of those men. Nadella hated Windows Phone with a passion. Now he is part of decision making at Xbox. Hardware like it's phone business will never compete with it's rivals in there eyes without a giant financial boost. Which there not willing to pay for. Hence the rumour of a rebrand to Microsoft Gaming Division. I hope I'm so wrong.

@cragis0001 Way back in the Matrick era, when Balmer was stepping down, investors hated Xbox and wanted it gone. Nadella being open to shutting Xbox down was one of the reasons he was appointed CEO to begin with. At the time, though, I was one of the people that thought Xbox was over, and the X1 would be their last console and they'd be getting out of gaming, and I was certainly wrong. Nadella of course gave Phil that "why should we keep it open" call, and the rest is history.

This time, with gaming being such a huge revenue stream now, I don't actually think they'll get out of hardware. Yeah, the hardware is a losing proposition, but MS, and Nadella, aren't the type that gives up control of platforms and developer tools. It's a level of control in the market it gives them. Just selling boxed software on other people's platforms isn't how they'll want one of their top revenue streams operating. They will make a box to play games on. For the same reason they make Surface even though it's a losing proposition, it's a claim staked in the industry. I do think they'll convert it to being a normal Windows PC inside because why wouldn't they? It's already half there. Winphone was different. They had no hold in the mobile market at all, they didn't really sell software on mobile, it was a weird space they couldn't compete in and didn't really intersect with the whole market. Gaming is a top revenue stream. Not having their own platform in it wouldn't suit their nature.

So I do think there will remain a box to play games on. Whether it's an Xbox or a "Microsoft Surface for Microsoft Gaming '26" IDK. I do think that latter name will really sell well in the 14-26 Call of Duty demographic though. Maybe the controllers will replace the X logo with a Windows flag. Or a silhouette of Koticks head.

But while there will be a box, I think the soul will be gone from it. The soul of Xbox has been Phil's vision for Xbox. It's been this great underdog platform that goes out of its way to be a champion of the customer. I don't think Microsoft Surface for Microsoft Gaming '26 will be that. It will be a soulless beige appliance for consuming content. Running windows. Maybe even with Steam and EGS access. It might even be a really useful device to consume content on. And I think it will be subject to wild mood swings like everything MS where the direction of the market trend of the month directs pushing the whole platform toward energizing into that direction, and features are started and abandoned, and change on a dime.

The good is, despite the soullessness, it may actually remain a good utilitarian place to build a library and play games. The bad is, it'll sell worse than it currently does, and won't be promoted heavily, and won't be challenging Sony or Nintendo or influencing them to not be monopolies, it'll just be there if you want it. The good is by being a Windows PC inside it doesn't have to sell well or risk missing out on games, any PC game will run on it.

All speculation, but connecting all the dots, and knowing the nature of MS isn't to just not have a foot in the market with a platform of their own, and the fact they'll ride the wave of PCs becoming more capable as a "console" (Deck, Ally) I think it's largely a safe bet. But what I don't know is the commitment to BC. Because eventually some hardware/software change will raise a challenge to doing that. Phil I believe would keep the commitment and the spirit of the platform. Corporate would just instruct the cheapest option and customers will have to #dealwithit.

@RedShirtRod I'm sure Spencer has told Nadella & Co there making a mistake but if he gets over ruled then he can't do much about it.

@CutchuSlow no I agree. but I've seen many times how upper management make stupid decisions. That make little to no sense. My only highlight this gen has been better support in Japanese games on Xbox. Which Spencer has to get credit for. It's a shame Tango Gameworks had to close as was hoping for news on new games at the showcase next month. I'm sure we will hear more why it has happened. I just hope it doesn't result in support collapsing.

@NEStalgia I think it comes down to how fast the next gen hardware takes off or collapses. As Surface is designed to be a showcase for other manufacturers. It had a soul when Panos Panay ran the show but has been cut back now he left. Again Nadella!!!. I think if it's a third gen of struggle. It could be game over for hardware!!!.
As for dev tools? Microsoft is a software company at heart. So would still be a strong partner to have. Even if they became just a publisher/store owner on other platforms. They'd still have other gaming revenue with being a cloud provider etc. God knows what will happen in the end.

@Pabpictu I was referring to Xbox hardware when I mentioned Windows Phone demise. As like Xbox. Microsoft software was making money on Android & IOS platforms when they killed Windows Phone.

You say Windows Phone was unsustainable. heard that before on a certain Xbox product.

I agree. Microsoft could be bigger than Tencent being just a publisher. As they've got there current game studio's & want more? They have there own cloud platform, PC & games console OS's. Dev tools. Hardware makers. The lot.

@cragis0001 Nadella is honestly a madman. Or he's following Gate's shadow orders (which he himself basically admitted to), who's already a confirmed madman. Technically nothing is doing well under him. They just buy things, strip out the value, have great balance sheets, and discard the carcases after they drain the life from them. Windows is down, sufrace is down, his initiatives seem to sink all of their products, rapidly, locked behind some imperative he wants to take hold and never does. He breaks everything, but somehow makes tons of money by pretty much acting as a bank and flipping assets rather than as a tech company. Do they even make money on tech anymore?

THough I think the gaming hardware won't be a "gen" of "struggle" necessarily. I think it'll just "exist" as a Windows branded but well designed compact gaming PC with a decent but still high price tag and as a showcase for Windows "gaming mode". I don't think it'll need to really "sell" like a generation, it'll just kind of linger for those that use it in the background like Surface. They don't need to outsellf Lenovo, Surface does what it does. And the Microsoft Surface for Microsoft Gaming '26 will do exactly that.