Reaction: Xbox's Push Towards 'Microsoft Gaming' Looks More Drastic Than We First Thought

It is just exhausting at this point.

I think we need to stop glorifying Phil Spencer. He’s played a part in how Xbox is at the moment, not to mention the serious repercussions Game Pass has/is having on these studios. I can’t imagine Tango would be closing down if it didn’t have to make a Game Pass game. And I’m someone that actually bought Hi Fi Rush outright.

Today has pretty much ended my relationship with Xbox and it is clear that many are doing the same. Xbox has failed to communicate with its fans. Xbox has bought the likes of Bethesda/Activision/Blizzard, not to make games but to ensure mass profits. It’s a bizarre way to go about what is essentially figure fudging.

Phil Spencer’s ego has grown so big that I’m surprised we can even the shelf behind him these days.

Neither he, no Sarah Bond, nor Matt Booty have any care for Xbox gamers.

I also suspect that they are also no longer in any sort of control and are merely just the puppets being controlled from above.

Microsoft gaming will make billions from gaming but not through its own hard work.

As for Xbox hardware - they may as well throw the towel in now. They have failed Xbox gamers. But they simply no longer care.

well all we need now is an avowed and or indy jones delay to 2025.

@somnambulance Microsoft gaming, Xbox or Spencer Corps will churn out games like a meat slicer but don’t expect the focus to be on quality. They are now going all in on quick bucks.

They simply do not care any longer.

@BaldBelper78 "As for Xbox hardware - they may as well throw the towel in now. They have failed Xbox gamers. But they simply no longer care."

yea i don't see the xbox customer base being half of what it is now for next gen. i dont see much 3rd party support. they really need to cancel plans for further xbox hardware. its over.

I've said before how we imagine gaming as consoles and PCs will end, MS has been preparing for it as far back as play anywhere. But I really wasn't expecting it be so... "deathy" I expected it to pitched as "xbox ecosystem being freed" and not what expecting them sacrificing customers, studios, and games to do it.

I love Xbox (had one part of my set up in every generation they existed), I Love gamepass, and MS is now in control of many of my favourite IP and I REALLY doubt, one way or another next gen I'll have an Xbox (gonna need some more hard drives to back up my digital library.)

@rustyduck at this moment the only hardware plan that makes any sense is allowing steam/epic, turning Xbox into affordable, capable and "simple to use" PC.

It's the only way to prevent the loss of third parties, they won't need to make a "Xbox port" the Xbox will just play the PC port.

@rustyduck What I think is a major problem was raising the spectre of "no more exclusives." Specifically, porting games to PS a year later, sooner, or ever. That will hang over them and deter people from picking up the next machine. MS pulled this3.5 years into the Series S|X gen, after selling 27-30 million units. What happens after two years of living under this threat (and any ports during that period), then expecting to launch a new console to higher demand?

The closure of Tango is another major blow to public interesting in Xbox.

Xbox bought Activision, not to change the Call of Duty machine, but to simply absorb it.
It's abundantly clear that more companies will be folded into the so called "blockbuster" titles and all the (in my view oft overlooked) interesting games like Pentiment, Grounded, Hi Fi Rush etc... will be ignored in favour of the COD cashcow.
I'd honestly rather have Don Mattrick back at this point.

Gotta love how MS has the worst timing.

Sony spent the weekend with its biggest games community its in open rebellion, its studio actively encouraging it, and even had steam abandoning its returns policy to help.

Its been a long time since Sony has been this weak and then MS dose this and its all forgotten.

I'm probably one of the few who will stick with Xbox. I'm a big Xbox guy. Obviously today's news sucks, it's a big blow to Xbox in Japan with Tango closing and the fact they made Hi-Fi Rush will be a big blow to fans. I seriously hope the people affected get jobs quick and get back on their feet.

I'm gonna stick with Xbox since I've spent 15 years with them and have a large digital library of games which I ain't buying all over again. I honestly don't care about any of the three companies exclusives at the moment. I'll get around to them eventually but I've more important things to play.

I'm honestly at the point where if there's no more Xbox, I'd be happy to just play my backlog and enjoy it. I don't care for PlayStation at all, I haven't for years. I never carried about Nintendo. I'm that into Xbox. Once I ever finish my backlog if Xbox is gone, I'd happily quit gaming.

Whatever the outcome, I'm there for the ride. As long as I can continue to play my games, I'd be happy if I'm being honest.

It’s MS, they didn’t become a multi trillion dollar company by being our friends. It was obvious to anyone that included Phil ‘Gamer’ Spencer. He is as much a suit as the rest, except wears a T-shirt.

It will move more towards Microsoft gaming or w/e. Hence the recent foray into multi platform. Also Microsoft upper management will have noticed that Xbox revenue has dropped (once you strip ABK) YoY. Xbox are missing their (frankly ludicrous) GP targets. To name but a few, so of course they will look at what they can change.

But we will still have Xbox games etc. they ain’t going anywhere

For me it's not about the studio closures specifically, that's the trend industry-wide. And it's not a belief that they're dropping hardware. I still believe they're going to launch a handheld and shift to a PC box as a console. Technically I think that hardware as a concept is, or should be very exciting.

But for me what this represents is the other shoe dropping that "XBox" is no longer the Xbox that Phil built that brought many of us back in after Matrick made us leave. After 2013 I went all PS+Nintendo, and pretty much laughed at Xbox, watched their E3 shows just because it was there, not because it was good. But Phil put together a good platform, and a good vision, and a good place to be that was more laid back, a more stable, even handed player in the industry.

All that has changed. Phil lost control of Xbox, and his vision is no longer the future. We're back to the same MS corporate controlled Xbox that governed Matrick and made many of us leave in 2013. The same laughing stock that made the platform completely unappealing until Phil's vision reversed that. This is the proof that no matter what appearances they give, what they're doing behind the scenes changes on a whim and usually matches the old late 360, early One era. And the uglier MS Game Studios PC era before that. What Phil fixed, corporate as broken, and I lack trust in what they tell me, that it's not today's placation before they reverse course tomorrow.

24 hours ago, I was day-1 on an Xbox handheld. Today I'm debating planning on a PS5 pro and shifting all my third party purchases to PS, or weighing the costs of PC. Xbox will still be there, but how many times a year will it change into some new corporate strategy, and how long does each promise or expectation last before reversed? They've gone from poor communication and bad PR to signaling they turn on a dime and shift with the winds. The bad old Xbox days from corporate are back.

I’m fed up with both companies and the ‘triple A’ gaming industry as a whole. It’s absolute garbage. One things for sure I ain’t on board with what Microsoft are doing and see zero point of buying an Xbox when all games will be multiplatform under a ‘Microsoft gaming’ banner. Confidence in Xbox releasing anything of worth is very low for me personally anyway, between their poor releases since the Xbox one and them being completely onboard with consulting agencies, I expect nothing of value to come out of any of their studios.

I predict they’ll carry on making record profits with their huge amount of studios and big popular franchises, but the Xbox brand will diminish and their hardware will continue to slump.

Owning a Series X has been the biggest advertisement to just getting a gaming PC and not dealing with Microsoft & Sony's nonsense. Started working on my Steam Library in the time waiting for my money & help with parts.

Removing the Xbox name from PC Game Pass was an early indication. Microsoft are killing the Xbox brand and console.

Nintendo and Valve are the best stewards of gaming right now. Hopefully Valve will pull more people away from Windows and onto SteamOS/Linux.

Cannot be arsed about Xbox, Microsoft Gaming or any of these huge greedy corporate b**stards anymore. Sick and tired of them either screwing over their customers or the honest and hardworking Devs who put in their 9 to 5.

We need more studios like Larian and we need to support more indie Devs. That's where the creative heart of the industry is.

@CaptainCluck Eh, I wouldn't put all faith in valve either. With SteamOS they're operating a lot like the console vendors these days. In a lot of ways separate launcher for everything on normal Windows is really the one safe thing to do. It's one thing that, if I go PC handheld has me tempted by things like Ally over Deck at times. Just trading one walled garden for another. OTOH Deck has HDR. FFXIV showed me that, where Steam has all the same account linkage shennanigans as XB/PS, while Square's own direct Windows client has no such issues.

@themightyant I think the biggest factor isn't if we're willing to stick with Xbox, it's the doubt as to if Xbox is willing to stick with us. Their goalpoasts move hourly and the consequences of failing to meet them mean the platform is reinvented quarterly into some new direction. I have 700 games in the Xbox digital ecosystem. I'm seriously debating if I have any intention of adding to them.

@DonkeyFantasy Bullying their way to the top was competition. Instead they've somehow bullied their way to the bottom. They don't actually communicate, don't even debunk the worst of rumors, then shoot themselves in their own feet, and are now disposing of the things they "bullied" to gain. It's like training your way to make it to the olympics, and running backwards when the starting gun sounds.

It's just mind boggling how they could continuously damage themselves so severely and declare it victory.

I don't understand how this keeps happening. It seems like every time we get some good news from Xbox lately, it's always followed by some bad. And even if there's a good explanation or it turns out to have been rumors and exaggerations, why isn't Xbox trying to communicate with the people who have stayed the most loyal to it?

Bad communication is the death of community.

Microsoft is doing to Bethesda what Activision-Blizzard has done to all its studios, forcing them to focus on ever-greater profits above all else. This should be a major warning sign to everyone. There is not a good future ahead for Xbox that I can see.

@NEStalgia I disagree about uncle Phil. I think Xbox is exactly where he wanted it to be. He’s always been a corporate stooge, just one who managed to convince some gamers into thinking he was one of them. Unless he stands down and speaks out, I’ll hold this opinion of the man.

Ugh, wish Sega could get back into the console arena.

Definitely starting to think returning my PS5 was a mistake at this point.

@Fenbops I disagree on that, I think we saw what his vision was for years, from 2016 or so through when the ABK thing started up. We were hearing even as part of those hearings that Hood and the like were pushing on turning around the profits. Aka changing the direction Phil mapped into one they wanted. With ABK and the ABK management being worked in, what we got was a very MS-ABK company, and something that doesn't resemble any of the roadmaps and agenda Phil had laid out. I don't think this was his plan. I think he lost control of his plan as soon as he brought the ABK opportunity to the executives.

I would not be surprised to see him "retire" soon.

Xbox is dead, the sooner we accept it the better, they’ll keep making consoles that nobody will buy for a time (just like Surface devices) until they get tired and their platform is so irrelevant that they’ll pull the plug overnight just like they did with Windows Phone.

And btw, Microsoft Gaming isn’t going to last long with these type of decisions, they could end up ruining Bethesda, Activision, and Blizzard even more alongside Xbox just like they did with Nokia.

@rustyduck I know for myself that there's 0% chance I buy another xbox...

PureMicrosoftGaming.com just doesn't have the same ring to it...

I’ve been with Xbox since day one.
And if tomorrow Xbox said that’s it no more consoles I would not be surprised.

They are heading down becoming Microsoft games and a massive third party company belting out the games that make the most money for them on all platforms.

Why mess around with all the costs of tiny amount of Xbox consoles, when they can put games on all other devices make shed loads of money and not have the hardware headache.
It makes simple business sense to me.

Microsoft Games is massive Xbox the name the brand and hardware is absolutely nothing and a tiny spec with no momentum, ditch it now and become Microsoft Games.

This is MS ladies and gentlemen. Scum company always have been and always will be, gaming would have been better off without them. They used HiFI every chance they had last year to big up themselves only for a year later to murder the studio that made it.

@NEStalgia
The Steam Deck in its stock configuration is not a walled garden though. It can run anything that is compatible with Linux. If Square-Enix, EA, Ubisoft or Microsoft wanted to release a launcher for it, they can. It sounds like you’re talking about compatibility - which is what they’re working on. The launcher on SteamOS makes sense for a handheld and gives it a good experience to use. Windows 11 ad spyware is not optimised for handhelds which is why the battery life sucks.

i think this is more damaging than the xbox one reveal.

What a terrible year for gaming overall:
You have Microsoft with all this stuff
You have Sony not releasing a big AAA until about April 2025.
You have Nintendo hanging onto the Switch probably way into next year and it’s only an upgrade of sorts and I think they are running a big risk hanging on too long.

All let’s remember all this is due to companies not managing things right going back a year or two and also some greed.

what even is xbox anymore?

original exclusives all gone now just the publisher of what used to be all the big 3rd party games.
just EA or Ubisoft now basically.

@P3nguinprisM @abe_hikura I have serious doubts about that. Bethesda was looking to be acquired because going it alone was becoming risky. They would have been forced to make some cuts, far sooner than the MS acquisition.

Now, would Hi-Fi Rush have done better if not in Game Pass? That is hard to say — Game Pass was and is automatic advertising and caused many people to give it some consideration. Far greater numbers of people dismissed it and advertising wouldn't have done much to prevent that. I can admit that the announcement mid-show of a "rhythm game" was not immediately palatable to me. Chai's character design was also unappealing.

However, Hi-Fi was in GP and I started the download before the show completed. It turned out to be a great game. Would I have bought it otherwise, most likely not.

Gaming on the Switch is quite robust, offering a plethora of third-party games throughout the year. It's likely that Nintendo will showcase a game or two for the fall season, and there's genuine excitement for their presentation in June.

As much as this all sucks to hear. People saying they are done with Xbox is wild to me. Its been happening all over the gaming industry and it sucks. Its the industry as a whole and not just Xbox. Hi-Fi rush was and is my fav game I have played in a long time and it sucks that Tango is getting shut down. There has to be more to this than what is on the surface. My hope is a lot of those people are finding jobs in other studios. We shall see.

@old-dad bit of a ***** show, eh?

I am strongly considering getting rid of both my PS5 and XSX (but keeping my Switch) and just getting an affordable gaming laptop - one that can play all the latest games with at least console settings.

For a laptop screen, 1080p/30fps at the absolute minimum would probably get me pretty far in gaming spaces.

Modern gaming is such a mess and with things like GOG selling older titles plus having the ability to use emulation, going back to PC is much more sensible than dealing with Sony or Microsoft consoles.

I don’t care about the plastic box, just the ability to play games and a gaming laptop could potentially save me money over buying multiple consoles.

I hope MS at least continue to fund ID@xbox to put out some interesting things as a PR move / gamepass fodder while they concentrate on the huge cash cows from their studios. I fear for DoubleFine. I hope if it comes to it, DoubleFine get the opportunity to buy their independence again

@theduckofdeath Those are fair points and well said. I guess my thought was, although I didn’t specify this, and is purely conjecture, that Hi Fi Rush wouldn’t have been made except to be a Game Pass game. It’s mostly bitter conjecture admittedly as Tango was one of my favorites, with both Evil Within games and Ghostwire both just doing something for me personally. I was genuinely hoping for a third Evil Within and a follow up to Ghostwire as well.

@GamingFan4Lyf I've been considering this for a while. Some kind of steam box hooked up to the telly.

There are so many couch coop games on Steam that never make it to Xbox.

@ParsnipHero That’s another option that could prove cheaper for performance profile I am looking for.

I assume there are ways to get the computer to boot right into Big Picture Mode on Steam.

I’d probably still need to find like a cheap wireless keyboard/touchpad combo to handle more “power user” situations, though.

@CaptainCluck inb4 Xbox handheld Windows 11....

True enough, but yeah half the thrill of pc is the variety of launchers so I'm still unsure if id go with deck or ally or something newer. The HDR on deck is appealing though.

Dear Gabe. If ever you were going to relaunch Steam Box, this is the week.

@pip_muzz even if Don was back today it wouldn't have stopped the 4 studio's closing. These decisions come from the top. So Nadella & the rest of the board of directors.

@NEStalgia I agree. Once ABK was integrated into Microsoft. Spencer lost control & Nadella took over as the shift of narrative happened after the January showcase for which Nadella has been the voice.

@themightyant Personally, I am sticking with my Xbox. I have two XSX and an XSS. But I'm not sticking with Game Pass. I just canceled that subscription and MS will have to work hard at getting me to re-subscribe. I have plenty of a backlog of games I own on Xbox digitally and will continue to play those games, but going forward, I'm just sticking to PC and Steam whenever I can.

@NEStalgia, for all purposes any PC is a Steam Box. I know its not as slick as booting right into the OS, but with minor fiddling you can have a dedicated PC always booting into big picture mode, and you can always go the extra mile if you feel crazy and install Steam OS.

@somnambulance why are gamers so bone-headed to the point that they NEVER consider that there's a good reason for closing down a studio or cancelling a game?

"Everything was perfect, then Microsoft shut them down... Why? Because Microsoft is evil?"

I'm sure there's more to it than that... This isn't a Disney movie.

What makes little sense is buying up all of these studios and publishers with a high back catalog of games and ips and then having them only concentrate on two or three games that are currently guaranteed to make them the most money by being multi platform. All this talk of them wanting all games to be multi platform even from Sony isn't so there are no longer exclusive games it's simply because they will no longer be making original exclusive games for Xbox.

Anyone who previously thought this would increase the amount of exclusives for Xbox while having the bigger games still be multi platform are probably no longer thinking that and I would seriously doubt that very few people are interested in Xbox hardware going forward as a result.

@NEStalgia Spot on. Phil lost control of Xbox, he can no longer hold the line and Amy Hood and Satya Nadella are finally putting the bullet in the head of Xbox console, to me it seems this happened around November. Although in hindsight it is crystal clear that the ABK acquisition is entirely for mobile gaming and barely benefits the traditional Xbox console gamer compared to 70 B paid, and we know from the FTC trial it is Hood who directed MS into that acquisition, not Spencer.

The bottom line is, as much as I love Phil, all this is a result of his failure to turn Xbox around. Hardware was massively down in 2022. Then in 2023 he had Starfield and $350 bundles with Diablo 4 and still couldn't give the console away. The 4th year of a consoles life is supposed to be one of its biggest sales wise and XSX is shrinking... again. Its failing horribly, not Wii U horribly, but horribly. Phil failed. The bosses got tired of waiting. Now here comes the next phase of microsoft gaming, which is their mobile game store, and live service games. I know I am mr doom and gloom around here since the games going to playstation rumors started, and I'm pretty sure I'm a big reason Kaloudz stopped posting here and I feel terribly about that, but it has been too easy to see how this is all going to play out. The only mystery to me is their next hardware, I'm genuinely interested to see what they are cooking.

I had a feeling Phil was just delaying the inevitable with that interview/business update. I do think Halo will be the one to make the first big push into Microsoft Gaming with going multiplat. Im glad I didn't invest into an Xbox this gen and instead PC.

@Reaper_cet Because most people are selfish and self-centered in their thinking, especially regarding esoteric or obscured business factors. YTbers dumb everything down and cater to their audience (the more they amp it up the more money they make). The fuels the engine and the cycle continues.

Closing Tango hurts. No doubt they simply were not making money (despite multi-plat status). I like their games and wish there was a way to hold onto them. No doubt the squeeze is on Xbox due to the upfront expenditure for ABK. That money won't be recouped to 8-10 years, though its far better than having it sit in banks.

Arkane Austin, well...Redfall was not soon forgotten. Prey was great, yet a commercial failure.

The other closures/dissolutions would have gone unnoticed.

At this point I simply can't envisage further Xbox hardware. Nothing competitive or mass market anyway.

@MrReaps What is this "Microsoft Gaming" suddenly being pushed? More rumors out of the rumor mill? That is a horrible name, BTW. Just stick with Xbox, no matter the hardware.

I feel like Xbox only ever gets negative criticism no matter what they do. They release exclusives like Halo infinite, Forza Motorsport and Starfield and the immediate articles following are negative. Microsoft decides to put some community driven games on PlayStation and switch and immediately it's negative doom and gloom. (Sony is doing the exact same thing, games aren't making ENOUGH time as exclusives which is why PlayStation exclusives are being brought to PC platforms but when Sony does it they're cheered as opening games to more people). Microsoft announced their Xbox Games Showcase & rather than let fans be excited immediately news outlets take a Jez Corden theoretical tweet as 'insider sources' and run negative articles for a 24 hour period before backtracking but the damage was done. I've NEVER seen the industry skew this hard towards the death of a successful gaming company in my 25+ years of gaming.

It's extremely irritating and unfortunate all at the same time. I'm a PROUD Xbox owner. In fact this generation has been the best Xbox generation to emerge since the 360 days, after watching the 2022 Xbox showcase my wife and I went out and bought 2 Xbox Series S consoles. When we did that three of our gaming buddies went out and bought their own XSS consoles so we could all play amazing games together. Late December, I decided to get the Diablo 4 Series X bundle & man I'm so glad I did. I genuinely love the Xbox ecosystem, the backwards compatibility, the fact I can purchase digital games outside of the Microsoft store, the fact I can play so many Xbox 360 games with added bonuses like auto HDR and frame rate boost, not to mention the party chat features on Xbox are superior to that of the Switch or the PS5. I should also mention my wife and I also own our own PlayStation 5 consoles, why? We love gaming lol but as gamers we can also see when something just isn't right & since 2022 I've witnessed a high percentage of articles criticizing Xbox as of their evil capitalism methods are some how much worse than Sony's evil capitalism methods but in honesty I'm not sticking up for corporations because they don't care about us, they only care about shareholders & their bottom line.

I'm trying to bring the Xbox community together to stand up and say hey, we love our Xbox consoles! There's millions of us & it bums me out when I see so many comments on mainstream gaming sites claiming the Xbox community is non existent & nobody plays Xbox & nobody cares if Xbox dies, well that's not true. I care, not for Microsoft or corporations, but for gaming. If Xbox were to die leaving Sony as the sole high end console maker they would control the market and without competition they will screw over consumers WORSE than they already do! (They recently removed Horizon Zero Dawn from PS Plus extra because it's speculated they're going to release a HZD remaster, so don't allow gamers to play the game on the catalog make them buy the remaster) Practices like that would only get WORSE without Xbox. We've seen the leaked documents showing Sony wants to charge more for games and the likes of that.

Anyways TLDR, I don't want Xbox to die. Also, I'd like the Xbox community to stick together & be kind to one another. I hope people takes time to think about how many great experiences Xbox brings to gamers around the world and without it, the gaming world would absolutely be a darker less fun place to play.
Long Live Xbox, happy gaming! ✌️

Phill extended an olive branch to kotick only for his own benefit and then he completely pegged the xbox fanbase. Unfortunately he is not done.

@Master_Cthulhu70 Nicely said. To be fair, I think the reason so many of us from inside the Xbox community are doubting the platform isn't because we don't like all the same things about it that you do. It because those are the things we like about it and we have this sinking impression that those are from the old Phil days, and these new nadella/hood/abk days will start taking all that away one by one, suddenly and permanently. 24 hours ago I was able to push the doubts from the rumour mil away and trust their goodwill, but after the demonstration of Ms corporate influence on the product, I've gone from an Xbox handheld being a day 1 buy to looking at steam decks and Ally.

I figure I'll give them until the June showcase. If they have something concrete, maybe they're something to it. If it's more cagey double speak and ambiguity I'll take it to mean they're intentionally being vague and diverting focus.

I think we all loved Xbox when it was Xbox. The red headed step child of Microsoft that did it's own thing. "Microsoft gaming" otoh, back to being under the thumb of the business software monopoly, feels..... Well, like Activision.... I also don't want it to leave a Sony shaped vacuum for all the reasons you said though. But I'm not convinced, today, that Xbox can save itself from Microsoft. Right now Windows and surface can't Even save themselves from Microsoft. Surface is a shadow of itself, and sales show it.

Maybe we really do need an apple or Amazon console...

@theduckofdeath that's the real name of the organization now. Phil's title is CEO of Microsoft Gaming. Xbox is a department under the division now with Sarah Bond having the Head of Xbox title Phil used to have.

@Jenkinss Yeah I'm in this mixed space where I hate to give up on the hardware and ecosystem because I genuinely liked it as it was, and was genuinely excited for my theory of what's next with actual windows pc boxes anyway, it may be the right solution for me. On the surface this announcement shouldn't be close to a reason to just abandon ship and go to "better" platforms that suit my needs worse, but it's the matter that it demonstrates its corporates vision not Xboxs and everything they say means nothing and changes on a whim that makes me nervous to stick with it. It just seems like Xbox at this point is Phil candidly saying his plan then a few months later corporate rolls out a different plan and Phil is missing. What's next, $50/mo GP?

It's a shame. You're right Phil's plan did fail. He banked on cheap hardware and cheap game access being a slam dunk. Who wouldn't think so? But for some reason it just didn't work. I think when that didn't work and series s didn't really grow the market it just withered.

I think around when redfall dropped and Phil had that awkward interview that came across as a broken soldier from the console wars is when our really marked the shift.

@Reaper_cet It’s a bit different when a company spends 80billion to obtain exclusivity to games they would have got anyway and then shuts several of the studios they have purchased. Literally everyone in gaming hates Embracer group for doing that and yet in their entire lifetime they have spent a fraction of what MS has in just 3 years. I think gamers are finally getting sick of it and realising it’s not all sunshine and lollipops and ABK games on gamepass.

No one knows what would have happened if MS hadn’t acquired these publishers but it’s fairly reasonable to assume that they are in the process of shedding costs to help pay for the ABK deal…a deal that I have a feeling the only people who will see the benefit of are the Microsoft shareholders because so far the gamers and employees certainly haven’t seen any benefit whatsoever.

Ive often wondered what will happen to this site of Microsoft go full third party and just create games for switch PlayStation and pc.

@GamingFan4Lyf I am pretty sure you can get it to run steam automatically in big picture mode, or just go the route of a steam machine with Steam OS.

That said I am not sure that the idea of a PC in the lounge is really the future we all want given that PC gaming has just as many, if not more issue than console gaming. I just did a reply of Dead Space 1 and 2 on PC as they both still hold up imo when played at 1440, but the first game was terribly janky to get working on my PC to the point of being so frustrating that I nearly just gave up playing it (the issue was as simple as it would not load with a controller plugged in)

For me they beauty of a console is knowing you don't get the PC issues which end up requiring fan fixes, mods and workarounds as OS's change and games are not as backwards compatible as you would expect. Consoles work best when Its just a straight forward turn on and play whilst sat on the couch.

The beauty of the PC is that its a windows machine that allows me to game, email, shop and work at a desk with mouse and keyboard, which feels better for certain genres like MMO's Strategy and FPS.

The other thing I would question is even if Xbox went the route of PC in the lounge how it would get access to the games. If it allows third party stores like steam then why pay for the Xbox bagde. If they went the route of the Xbox gaming app (which is terrible on PC) then companies could potentially just not licence games on that app to continue the exclusivity trend.

Well, Microsoft is definitely "for the Players"

@Meehanuk_1987 are swallowed up by pushsquare

A sad as all this is with people losing there jobs it's hardly the end of Xbox I'm here to enjoy gaming the real world politics is what we should be worrying about not the gaming politics just enjoy games and don't become a game developer

@CaptainCluck it’ll never not amaze me how nintendo gets a pass from everyone for their mediocrity . theyre still stuck in the 90s , aren’t you guys tired of mario yet ? 😂

@NEStalgia thanks for the response, I'm glad someone else feels similarly as I do regarding the whole situation. I'm not abandoning ship because I've got decades invested into the Xbox ecosystem just as I have decades invested into the PlayStation ecosystem. I hope when the June showcase comes we get some more insight into what exactly they're planning going forward. I know from the 2021 showcase until now we have some amazing games coming to Xbox! Something that absolutely NOBODY talks about lol anyways, Long Live Xbox & happy gaming ✌️

The business plan for XBOX was to become a third party publisher that will make a lot of money from software like multiplatform games, live service games, mobile games, cloud and subscription service. XBOX was never meant to become a hardwared based company with exclusives games. Having exclusives games limits sales growth and profit margin. Even Sony is having problem with low sales of first party AAA titles that have huge development budget.

In order for XBOX to succeed, they need to focus more on Game Pass subscription growth, and become a multiplatform company by having popular live service in all platforms. Call of Duty is making 1 billion dollars in revenue on PS5. XBOX has now popular IPs like Call of Duty, Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo, Overwatch, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Doom which all should be multiplatform franchises because they have a massive appeal in the mainstream users.

As for single player titles, we could still have 1-2 AAA from XBOX studios like Ninja Theory, inXile, Obsidian, Playground, Arkane etc etc.

It seems that Microsoft is abandoning double A/indie projects because they don't have much appeal and don't generate high profit margin. So they are focusing all their resources to big blockbusters games coming from popular IPs which could make a lot of money from sales, microtransactions and subs growth.

It’s hard for me to think of too many recent corporate merger/acquisitions that ever turn out well. Tons of money spent, quality and quantity of output goes down, people lose their jobs, IPs disappear and executives receive larger and larger bonuses and promotions for incompetence and failure.

@Grackler "No exec pay cuts beforehand, no attempts to sell the studio to the staff."

You are not privy to any of that information. Those are private business matters. We only know of the public information.

I own both consoles...but I personally don't want Xbox to publish all Thier games on playstation...it makes owning an Xbox almost pointless ...if I was starting from scratch it would be fine...would be a no brainer to go with playstation if Xbox is putting all Thier games there...even if it's a year after they release on Xbox

I have been into the Xbox ecosystem since 2019, and it has been mostly a joy. I love the system and ecosystem under Phil Spencer, and it seems clear from this that that vision is gone. It bothered me in January, and I woke up this morning and I realized I don’t care about their June showcase. I am their hardcore customer, and I’m sick of them. I still read some of the things Spencer said years ago, and they sounded wonderful. This move by them now is short sided, because aaa games are getting more
Expensive to make, and aa can be put out for a service like game pass or whatever and take less time and less money. Anyway, I believe that as much as I love them, and I prefer their console to anything else, I am done with them

@Ilyn Yeah, that's the rub. I was primarily a PC person for years and only played console games that didn't release on PC. I fully understand the "ease of use" issues they can have.

I stopped because I enjoyed the simplicity of a console. On PC, I'd be spending way too much time in the settings menu trying to maximize image quality to performance ratios and not enough time just enjoying the game.

But it seems like a lot of newer titles have the simpler settings than when I was gaming on PC where the "out of the box" settings will be just fine to get a good experience.

The only thing holding me back from going PC is that it's great as long as long as everything works, but a huge pain in the butt when things don't - something that really isn't an issue on consoles.

Sad to hear you were having Dead Space issues, though. I have that on my Steam library and never once had a problem using an Xbox controller connected via USB on my potato Surface Book 2.

One game I had issues with was Max Payne on Steam, but a community patch was just a download away to fix the sound problems I was having. Annoying, but thankfully fixable.

"if Xbox went the route of PC in the lounge how it would get access to the games."

I'd argue it would be the same way that the current Xbox works. In essence, an Xbox PC would act like a standard Xbox, but also acts as a sort of Launchbox experience for Steam, GOG, etc.

Now, Microsoft would certainly have to partner with Steam , GOG, Epic, etc. in order to be able to purchase/install games within the UI, but I could see a future where the Xbox UI looks almost identical as it does now, but adds new Tabs in the "All Games and Apps" section to include games available to you from other storefronts in their own Tabs (just like how EA Play has its own Tab).

The other thing is that Microsoft really needs to do is court more companies to release games on Microsoft Store. I am not sure the hesitation there unless it has something to do with the PC GDK being designed for Game Pass PC as most modern games that are on the PC Microsoft Store have been on Game Pass at one time or another.

Not all publishers plan/want to have a Game Pass release, so if there a requirement that a game needs to be subject to a Game Pass release in order to release on PC Microsoft Store and use GDK, that needs some re-thinking.

All I know is, the first company to give me a console-like way to access PC-versions of games (that isn't Steam Deck) will be the one to get my money going forward. PC has all the Microsoft Gaming games I would want to get as well as Sony titles that eventually get ported (and I don't really have FOMO, so I can wait). Plus emulation. Plus access to tons of classic gamers (even if playing those classic games isn't as straight-forward as Steam in Big Box Mode or a console).

Not surprising. This is hie giant American corporations work, and Microsoft does have a reputation for dropping anything the instant it loses money. Plus they have a habit of mass hiring them mass firing a few months later due to having 'too many staff', read they hire younger people pay them less and fire the older more expensive staff.

So I expect more ruthless closures and firings. And some great games will be buried under Microsoft's vision of 'gaming'.

At this point I won't be shocked if they ditched COD and fired all the COD staff if it's sales started underperforming from its targets.

Niche and/or AA games like Hi-Fi Rush is what drew me into the current gen of Xbox and Game Pass. If there's going to be less and less room for such first party experiences in Microsoft's vision for the future, then its appeal to me personally goes down considerably too.

More to the point, it's hard to have much confidence in a vision that is morphing to this extent without being laid out coherently for those who are part of the eco system. There's more uncertainty than ever, they are bouncing from one PR disaster to the next, the messaging and timing of these things is consistently poor.

I will always be fascinated by the Xbox brand, but my actual commitment and confidence levels towards it continue to be in flux.

Phil Spencer has killed Xbox, and when I say Xbox I'm talking about the console.
He constantly talks about growing the industry and what's good for the industry, well ya know what's good for the industry? Having 3 consoles selling well.
Developers allowed to make their own visions and not have to work on Call Of Duty nonstop. Rewarding great games like Hi-Fi Rush.
Not having every developer worried that they didn't meet some weird metric none of us knows about!

@Grackler So, in the sentence I quoted, you are stating things you have no knowledge of as fact. The reason people always pull Iwata taking a pay cut one year out their a@@ is because it does not happen. Not often, certainly not in America. Sometimes execs have to take pay cuts, don't get bonuses, or are targeted for layoffs because of high salaries. That is about it.

Companies are not in the business of paying people who don't have tasks to work on. None of Tango's last 4 games were great financial successes. I wish MS could have given them a new project, but would it sell? People did not buy their games in large numbers and that cannot be ignored.

Nintendo has children captive so they can sell a Fischer-Price console for $300-$350 for 7 years. The games can be simple and have short dev cycles. Sony and MS don't have that luxury.

Ya I can't see me buying the next Xbox console. I own all 3 current platforms and I haven't turned on my xbox to play a game in over 9 months. Next gen I'll be just PS and Nintendo.

@Fenbops He can't speak out or reverse course (too late for that), he works for MS. He can say he regrets what happened. I doubt he could even say he fought against any of the closures, publicly. All he can do is still around and try to do the best he can internally.

Not surprising they got rid. Arkane has literally no one left from the Dishonored or Prey days and the only thing produced is Redfall, Tango has only created HiFi rush in the time since it was acquired. Who's fault is that is open for debate but overall Xbox is a business and Arkane games have never made money and Tango made ok money but not amazing.

Hopefully we'll end up with a few smaller companies of ex Devs created soon so we can get some more indie and AA games created.

Anyway, never trust companies, that should be the takeaway. Don't trust companies, don't go bat for companies, just keep companies at arms length at all times and never get invested in what they are shilling.

@Blinx Very well said, and echoes my own thoughts perfectly.

Personally I have been hoping for years that Microsoft makes separate or bundles a XBOX OS into windows to allow people to turn their PCs into XBOX rather than buying the console. Especially since a lot of their windows DRM (GFW Live is dead so you can’t play games linked to it legally) has turned games into coasters. That will outstrip the pace to port games to PC and will get their platform into more homes. They are sorta doing that with the xbox apps but those just link accounts.

Wow, and I thought the hyperbole was bad yesterday. Too funny.

@GeeEssEff

Yet another person who thinks MS somehow needs to pay for the ABK deal, as if it was a debt. These comment sections would be a lot better if at least some of the people in them understood anything about business.

MS is already seeing significant profits on ABK. The closing of these studios had absolutely nothing to do with ABK.

@Grackler To be fair, as someone on both, the grass isn't any greener on the blue side of the pond. You get more games that are exclusive. That's just about the only advantage though. It's not like you get better prices, more consumer friendliness, less crummy decisions. Sony also just closed most of their smaller studios. MS and Sony are playing the same game, MS is just doing it with a bigger budget, and looks worse because they did it after a big buying spree that promoted a home for these mid-tier games before now closing them and saying they're doubling down on blockbusters.

Not that I'd recommend against being a PS owner, I like PS well enough, but before selling things and spending money on things, just know you're not magically getting something that's magically friendlier. PS hates you as much as Xbox does. And, at least until now, treats you worse because they're in the lead. PCs the only way out of the trap, but then that comes with an obnoxious price tag, and its own set of troubles.

@somnambulance what money is there to be made in shutting down a studio that was doing WELL?
Explain that. You probably can't because it doesn't make any sense. What do we KNOW about tango?
They released hi-fi rush, the founder and lots of key talent left.... And we haven't heard anything from them sense.
It makes sense to assume that chain of events is related, right?

If the founder left, taking key talent, and the remaining staff wasn't actually capable of producing a viable product, who exactly is responsible for the studio shutting down?

This stuff sucks, but the way people react to it is ridiculous.

@RIghteousNixon Hey man I very quickly regretted my above comment. It was over the top and I’m sorry. We clearly don’t see eye to eye on any of this stuff so should probably try our best to ignore each other on this site but I don’t want to resort to mud flinging and being a general idiot. I meant it about the respect for your business and genuine congrats on coming up to retirement, massive milestone and probably an exciting time for you so I hope it lives up to its promise. Sorry bro, I don’t know why us gamers get so heated about all this stuff but we are hot blooded beasts that’s for sure. Hopefully no hard feelings.

I just can't believe that they would close the studio that made Hi-Fi RUSH, but keep the studios that made Halo Infinite and Starfield. Hi-Fi RUSH is, for me at least, the only Xbox game worth a damn in the last few years. If they closed everything except Tango Gameworks and Ninja Theory it would make more sense.

Forza Horizon 5 and Fight Simulator are both incredible tech demos, but not really video games. I can't think of any other titles. Oh, Redfall.

@GeeEssEff

All good brother. And my initial comment was a tad over the top and antagonistic as well. We can agree to disagree on topics and just leave it at that. No hard feelings.

@somnambulance let me ask you this: why would they be pitching a sequel this far after launch?
Most studios would have already been working on their next project before hi-fi rush came out.

They probably didn't have a follow up game planned because the director never planned to do a follow up after hifi rush.

That makes sense to me.

Xbox is really digging a large grave for itself, and is taking as many with them.

@somnambulance This looks like these studios were 'sacrificed' to make way for Bethesda's expansion to be able to work on the nest Elder Scrolls game and another Fallout.

It feels like Microsoft will turn into just aother AAA place with smaller studios pushed aside to support the machine of the big IP's.

@Grackler Yeah, Microsoft has never, ever, ever been a likable company. Xbox was likable because it operated pretty independently of Microsoft. Yeah, it was MS, but it was it's own division that did its own thing its own way. We liked it, because it was even less corporate than its competitors, despite being an MS subsidiary.

Post ABK, that changed, severely. Corporate took over Xbox, and now it's MS proper. At the least, it's equally corporate as PS now. But I think even big tech, companies can choose to act with integrity or not. I believed in their sincerity in everything they told regulators, and if they'd maintained that integrity, they'd still be making money like crazy, and also hold the higher ground. Instead they behaved like children, told the adults what they wanted to hear, and then as soon as they weren't looking did whatever they wanted because they could get away with it.

Technically I don't think being a huge megacorp or a mom & pop shop is what makes the difference, it's who leads it that does. You can be a mom & pop shop that lies, swindles customers, and under-fills packages. And you can be a big mega corp that says what they mean, does what they say, and upholds integrity in their actions.

The problem is just that the big tech companies are never that. They're run by petulant children always grinning in the mirror when they get away with doing something bad.

An Activision console is not a product I ever wanted to have.

For me, personally, Xbox was the best of both worlds. A more carefree, customer experienced focused platform without the huge expense and hassle of PC. Sure it missed some games, but it was worth it along with the promise of library preservation and great usability features.

I've been a Playstation fan since before I was an Xbox fan. Nintendo since the beginning. Sega until they went down. Nintendo ticks me off, yes, they're more creative than the rest, but there's no question they're another Disney, milking the love for their franchises to the bone. I like their games, I buy their hardware for their games, I'm an addict, it's what addicts do. But I'd never be able to tolerate their way as my main platform these days.

PS....such a roller coaster. PS1 and 2 and PSP were an amazing time. PS3 really wet the bed and was the start of "Sony" taking over "Playstation" the way Microsoft is now taking over Xbox. Still it was a great time. But last gen with PS4 Sony got too full of themselves without MS as a competitor. The replacement management (Jim & Co) were corporate lackeys, not PS execs. Wannabe media tycoons. PS5 has been so disappointing, and without Xbox putting pressure on them it would be far worse (I expect a much more expensive PS5, little or no BC, worse policies overall, etc, etc.) I switched from PS4 primary to X1X primary late last gen, and I really believed in the X1X direction. But all the air has gone out of that balloon since Series. But I can't quite get myself to go all in on loving PS5.

I was a PC gamer for a long time. I got so tired of the extreme cost, and spending more hours tinkering at a keyboard to troubleshoot problems running games than playing games. Plus the heat, the noise ,etc. Yes, it was a different era, but PCs are still PCs.

So I find myself conflicted as well. I know XB will still do hardware another gen, it's got 10 years at least left in it. I have a massive, massive library hundreds of games deep now on XB. Do I just hold my nose and stick with them because it's the most practical option? Jump ship to the PS5 I already have and just start building my library from now on on PS? Knowing it'll get worse and worse the weaker the XB platform gets. Or finally take the plunge and go back into PC where I know I'm going to replace 2 $500 consoles with 2 PCs at least $1500-3000 a piece with constant $600 upgrade cycles on it, plus rethinking handheld and rebuying library. It'll have the permanence I want, but will I regret it if I have to tinker with it? Or pay for it.....financially that seems like a dumb decision just because I'm not happy with XB. And $150 of each of those PCs still goes to MS for the stupid Windows key.

It's definitely a point of conflict right now.

@NEStalgia

"And $150 of each of those PCs still goes to MS for the stupid Windows key."

Linux.

@Ralizah Then you're back to missing out on tons of games.

I've been there and done the Linux gaming thing before the cool kids did it. Yeah I know it's a lot better now, and I know Steam has made big strides on that. But at the end of the day there's still a Windows shaped hole if going that route.

I swear Steam people are kissing cousins of ponies, anyway.

@NEStalgia Game compatibility with Linux is constantly improving with Valve's Proton push.

Yeah, it's not the most convenient OS for accessing PC games, but it's a viable option if you actually care about not filling Microsoft's coffers. shrug

I'll be sticking with Windows because convenience and familiarity are more important to to me, but it's quickly becoming a much more gamer friendly environment.

@Ralizah Yeah I'm not the 'protest Microsofts existence" type. Did that in the 90s. . I was all Linux for years. Gawd getting wine to run Black& White is 200 hours I'm never get back Lol.

No I'd go windows. Though EGS is somewhat more appealing to me than steam where valid. Their sharing is better too. Windows store...I still can't figure out how/is sharing works.

I did have to laugh at "how to run FFXIV on steam deck" and it involves a bunch of bash commands. On a handheld. Not that the windows handhelds are devoid of all that. I think if I did a pc handheld it would have to be ally or legion. Deck is too much of the same problems I don't like with Ms, or ps really. It's just another console, might as well stick with Xbox handheld where I have a mammoth library.

Bottom tier ally is $400 again. Not sure it's enough though. And that's 400i could put into a rig. Or check prime day and see if a better ally or legion goes on sale.

I need to find someone familiar with current parts to see what an xsx or improved xsx at 60fps rig could run me. I know Xbox will be more expensive next Gen, Phil pretty much said that much directly. So price matters

@theduckofdeath The game was shadow dropped and on Game Pass day one. You and others playing it on Game Pass means nothing, since you're paying for the subscription either way. Despite all that, Aaron Greenburg said "Hi-Fi RUSH was a break out hit for us and our players in all key measurements and expectations. We couldn’t be happier with what the team at Tango Gameworks delivered with this surprise release."

I know you love to stand up for the big corp, but we know how much MS paid for all the acquisitions. We know the Activision execs were paid handsomely on the way out the door. It doesn't take much to put two and two together and know that management at the top isn't being affected.

@somnambulance If they want the game to generate buzz, maybe Microsoft could try advertising it? People on social media have been pushing MS to advertise it more. It's sad when you have customers telling a company to advertise something.

@NEStalgia How is Nintendo like Disney? They put out actual good content (aside from the occasional Mario spinoff). Nintendo does suck when it comes to their fans though. Shutting down fan made games, emulators, mods in Gary's Mods, etc.

For PlayStation, I think they went downhill when they closed Japan Studio. They made so many iconic games for the brand. It really made the PS1, PS2, and PS3 special in that regard. I still love Insomniac, Naughty Dog, and Sucker Punch, but they all seem to be going for that big budget game. I miss the days of Jak, Sly, and Ratchet. I love Uncharted, but that's also the series that created the "walking simulator" mold that people love to make fun of the current Playstation brand for. Despite not liking Jim Ryan, I did want to point out the fact that he was with Sony Interactive Entertainment since the beginning. He wasn't just some exec pulled off the streets. It just shows that longtime employees can still make garbage decisions for a brand that they helped build.

PCs have come a long way. A lot of the cons mentioned aren't really problems now. Not sure why you'd need two PCs, but you wouldn't need to constantly upgrade your PC if you're spending $1500-$3000 on them. With that price range, you're looking at top of the line hardware that would take years to become obsolete. Just look at the current GPUs out there versus ones from 5 years ago. We're not seeing huge leaps in technology that require upgrading your PC parts constantly.

@Lanmanna I think Nintendo and Disney are comparable insofar as both have historically maintained a strong 'family friendly' image and rely heavily on the nostalgic appeal of iconic mascots in terms of merchandising.

Although I'd say Switch-era Nintendo is more comparable to 90s renaissance-era Disney.

@Lanmanna Raluzah Said it but yeah, family brand, associated with mascots nostalgia, and a rabid fan base that will buy and tolerate anything from the company because accepting the company is anything but warm and fuzzy shatters their belief in their own childhood

Totally agreed on Sony! Agee on every single title and studio mentioned. Jim was with Sony forever, but he was a marketing guy with Sony. Aka the problem, not the solution. Yeah their marketing is successful and Xbox is the opposite, but still, he wasnt part of what made the product great, he was part of selling "product" to the masses and inventing an image. Which is exactly where he failed as leader. He was supposed to be making product and instead he was still marketing what was there and spending on games to be developed for marketing effect. "300 million!"

I know you're probably right on PC. And I know the moment I build one, windows 12 will launch a year later and require an aipc

@Lanmanna I'm not defending a big corp, I am defending reason. Tango's last four game releases are not what you would call financial successes. Hi-Fi Rush was critically acclaimed, deservedly. Great...but few played it and even less bought it.

If HFR had not been in GP, I sincerely doubt I would have bought it, and there is no guarantee I would have played it (and I'm not alone). GWT had relatively poor performance (sales and compute) on Series X and PC.

There are people at MS whose job is to scrutinize spending and make sure everything is on the up & up. ABK will make the money back; that doesn't mean you ignore the studios that are not profitable. We don't know what state Tango was in, we only have rumors of a desire to staff up for a new project (Hi-Fi 2?). That means it would not be delivered for 3-5 years (3 being courteous since it is a sequel). The studio did not have the staff on hand.

So, MAYBE an unprofitable studio needs time & money to staff up for a sequel to a game that did not sell. Had Bethesda not been acquired, who knows if HFR would have even released? Or that Tango would not have been closed sooner? It is easy to make demands when someone else is footing the $100 million bill. You and I (and probably Xbox leadership) would say do keep Tango, however, they all answer to someone.

The most important fact is that we don't know what the hell happened. We only have bits of information.

@Ralizah It's funny, I still always hear how much better PC has become, hardware stuff aside, but purely cost wise, no matter what I do I can never make the numbers work out.

I looked over the Steam Families sharing page, and the only thing I could think of while reading that was Shu Yoshida's famous "this is how you share games on PS4" video. What a cluster. I thought EGS had a great sharing program but I think with more reading I found it doesn't have one at all...so it comes back to Xbox/Windows Store as the best sharing program.

Though, IDK if you've messed with it, Steam sharing says that you can play a shared game while offline....so how does the prevention of same game sharing work if one is offline?

Then despite the "games are cheaper" on PC arguments, I found some great sale prices on EGS, but on Steam, browsing, and this happens every single time I've ever considered switching to steam, I just took a dozen games of the past few years as a spot check, and on PS and XB at least some of them are 20-40% off. On Steam? Every one of them is $60-70. Not one sale in sight.

So my spot check on switching to PC means spending a minimum of $1100 each box, spending full price on most games and having to buy two copies of everything, all to get roughly the same exact performance I get on console. So 4x spending to stay in the same spot with a sharing policy that's even more draconian than on console.....why am I thinking of PC again?

Every time I look at the world of PC I walk away with the impression that PC is great if you're an angsty teen with rich parents, or if you're a weeb 2 gens behind that runs a potato at low res and doesn't like any game newer than 5 years old.

@NEStalgia I'll have to experiment with playing the game in offline mode on Steam when someone else is running it! That's an interesting question. Could be a neat loophole.

Steam sales are fine, but the majority of the good sales are coming from official key re-sellers like Fanatical and GMG, bundle deals, etc. If you don't mind slightly less above board storefronts, you can get tons of games at amazing prices.

That said, check Steam when one of its many storewide sales are happening, and tell me how many of those same games aren't heavily discounted then.

I've also noticed many games getting strong pre-release discounts on PC, but not on console. I bought RE2R for, like, 20% off before it even came out.

Oh, and you're getting your free games from EGS, right? I have no interest in shopping with them, but they're regularly giving away older AAA titles, new-ish indies, etc.

@Ralizah Yeah I'd read one forum thread where someone said it used to work, but doesn't work now with the new families plan.... Also said it works still while in beta but not once it's final.... But that thread also said you had to be online for the new families which the official faq says you do not. And then they'll change policy all the time depending on how people are using the sharing (abusing) as they monitor. I feel like I'm reading a Sony FAQ. Or Nintendo!

Ugh...see that's where PC annoys me....you hear people talk about how great it is...you look into it and it doesn't look that great, and THEN you find out that it's all through backdoors and workarounds that it gets great, which just doesn't seem great. While I don't 100% mind it, it doesn't have any more certainty to it than Xbox, really.

I don't even have an EGS account, so I'm not getting new games, but maybe I should.

I'm TOYING with the idea of buying a Legion just to mess with the current PC stores and scene before committing to a whole build...but unsure. That's $700 (sale right now) I could just put into a full build. And the more I read about the mess of sharing and double buying and not being thrilled with pricing, the less it feels worth it and I keep coming back to "stick with XB or switch to PS and bite down hard and hope it doesn't hurt."

@Ralizah Pre-order sales are cool though. Wish they still did that on console. But the more steam policy more draconian than the consoles, I read, and the regular pricing, and the cost of hardware vs console 2-3x....I still can't figure out what is so great other than mods. If you're going for extreme performance builds at any visit 6 pc is awesome. If you're going for super bargain build for old games it's awesome. For mid range current stuff it still looks like an extreme money sink vs consoles. Which is sad to me. That actually seems worse in a lot of ways from when I left it. Or maybe consoles just got better.

@NEStalgia Steam is pretty consumer-friendly. Once they've ironed out this new system, I'm sure it won't be all that confusing to people.

The entire reason games end up being so much cheaper in general on PC is because of competition from a variety of storefronts. If you're just gonna stick to Steam sales and nothing else, then yeah, it's not gonna look much better than PSN or Xbox Live.

Although tbf, a big reason you have massive digital sales on console storefronts is because Steam popularized the idea in the first place.

For free from EGS, I've redeemed, among other things: Cat Quest II; The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition; Ghost Runner; Saint's Row (the new one); Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy; A Plague Tale: Innocence; Murder by Numbers; Death Stranding; Bioshock: The Collection; Daemon x Machina; all three of the AAA Tomb Raider games; Control; various Borderlands games; and about 100 other indies I'm not gonna list out. I think they were also giving away GTA V at one point, but I missed that.

@Ralizah Yeah that's why I wouldn't even consider a Steam Deck, it's just another console that doesn't really suck less. It's legion/Ally/rig or nothing for that very reason. But then you get to the issue of sharing on egs/origin/Uplay not existing etc.

You're somewhat right about the steam sale leading to sales but it still would have happened because physical retail sales still happened and digital isn't priced appropriately to begin with, so sales would have happened anyway, the format is just inspired by steam.

Steam itself seems no better than Sony or Xbox to me really. It's another option but on its own not a reason to switch. Multiple stores are a reason but I still have to justify 2-3x hardware cost plus having to double buy lots of software with some extreme software savings for it to make any financial sense. I want to. But the numbers aren't working no matter what I do. Me trying to switch to PC looks like a Jim Ryan spending model

I figure $700 for a PS5 pro, switch to ps.... Done. Or stick with Xbox the next hardware may have multiple stores competing anyway, may be a PC.... May cost almost as much as a PC though... Done.

Need to make the numbers work.... But struggling to find a way. Starting with a legion might help. Won't help me figure out sharing though. And it's 700 out of a new build better spent. Otoh I get a much nicer remote play screen than I have if I don't switch. I already have GPU so at least I have stuff to play on it.

Really a shame Part Anywhere is a wreck. Should have been mandatory. Optional platform features go nowhere. 330 games. Like a dragon 1 but not infinite wealth. What's the point? Would have made the switch easy.

Tbh even in PC Xbox store still looks better than steam for me. Sharing just works like on console. Not a bad thing but then why buy $1500 in hardware vs just stick in place?

Dang I've missed a lot in egs. Now that I know theyll nerf it like consoles did lol

@NEStalgia In terms of PC:

• You don't have to pay hundreds of dollars over the course of a generation to play your games online or back up your saves.
• You have thousands of older and indie games that'll never see console releases.
• More stability in terms of availability of your digital purchases. ESPECIALLY when you consider services like GOG that'll let you just own the digital games you buy.
• Way more freedom and customizability when it comes to control methods.
• The option to play across a variety of device types, including handheld PCs, laptops, and desktops.
• In general, cheaper prices when comparing across multiple storefronts.
• Full freedom to mod most of your games.
• Easy ability to emulate games from most older consoles.
  etc.

PC gaming is a life-style and long-term investment in the hobby outside of the confines of the increasingly exploitative ecosystems maintained by Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo.

Consoles are always gonna be cheaper and more convenient if you want a quick, easy way to play the latest thing, of course. They have their place.

Ultimately, though, none of these arguments will matter. People have preferences and will look past problems and hangups in order to maintain those preferences, because their tastes ultimately aren't driven by reason. Just look at how Sony's faithful have changed every single one of their talking points about why Playstation is the superior ecosystem since Sony has changed course this generation.

@Ralizah I thought ps was the way of life. It has rites, rituals, sacrifices, inquisitors.

Though steam people aren't much better. From the outside, all I see is a fourth console that uses your own overpriced byod.

I'm very curious the results of your offline experiments with steam. Maybe how it works now won't be how it works out if beta but that's Big deal.

PC has perks but most of that is outside if steam. Fortunately I'm not loyal to any brand, nor pcmr. For me it's just cost/benefit and pragmatism. I'm just struggling to make the cost/benefit work out much as I'm trying. Between hardware, sharing, and of course my massive existing console library. Numbers just seem like way more to not get anything more.

One thing that I wonder about with PC after seeing Sony go after PSN for PC, is if we're at an inflection point where publishers will individually start creating walled garden fiefdoms (paid or otherwise) on PC where your almost better off with Daddy Microsoft or Sony as go between with a console even if they're their own wolf at the gate. At that point PC would have nothing going for it other than the freedom to buy $2000 GPUs.

Still toying with legion, just dumping the money into a proper build or just doing what's probably financially smarter and do nothing at all and hope Xbox is forever (as a PC)

@Ralizah Also, all hail effing Sega! From the 90s to today they're still the best.. we've through my Xbox library. Virtually none of my games including actual first party games are cross buy PC. You know what is? Seeeegaaaa. The newer Yakuza games and atlus games, all cross buy. Shame the old games aren't (they're not even on PC though I think?). So I'll get smtv and cave remember the new one in October on Xbox since it's auto pc and it's the best sharing platform on PC anyway. Woot!

Todd can bite me. No Skyrim crossbuy still lol. No teso either. Maybe my dlc goes with my Bethesda account though.

Honestly 700 games and half of them I don't really need to cross over really. Maybe 20 I'd revisit
Rebuy from Xbox. Many are 360 and not on PC. Square stuff....

Ps rebuy may hurt more.

Btw what to you do for couch having to navigate windows with different launches, drivers, patches etc? Any convenient keyboard mouse desk workaround?

@NEStalgia I don't play games on the couch tbh. Not even my home consoles. I've consolidated my setup around a computer desk.

I know people do it, though. There are workarounds, for sure.

@Ralizah Ohh, yeah, so basically you're living the 90's dream? Yeah,that's a massssive difference. I did the whole desktop gamer thing in my PC era for over a decade. I intend to never, ever, return to that under any circumstance ever. I spend my day at a desk I don't want to spend my funtime there too.

I know a lot of people highlight how it works well as a couch thing now with Steam-only setups with it booting into big picture, or SteamOS, but I still think going Steam-only is just chosing the 4th console and not actually really taking advantage of PC, why not just stick with the big two (one?) at that point? Plus moving from Xbox means you come into PC with some chunk of library already on the Windows store (most Sega and Atlus stuff carries over, ironically Bethesda does not, but maybe 20% of my XB library is automatically PC library already via Windows Store/Play Anywhere. ) So yeah the Keyb/Mouse angle for couch play is a big issue, and I'm not doing those crazy lap tray things.

Still can't escape the costs...just to build a XSX/PS5 equivalent is $1100 just before they start going "next gen". I'm inching closer to experimenting with Legion or something, an expensive test pilot to live with it for a while. I'm thinking maybe Prime Day will have some good GPU/CPU/mobo deals or something in July if I know I'm going that route. I'd probably go somewhere around the lines of AM5 maybe the 6-core instead of 8-core CPUs, Zen4 should still outperform Zen3 in the consoles by a little bit. Maybe a 4060....Maaaaaybe 4070 or something to eclipse the consoles by a little but (but not PS5 Pro I'm sure), but that's a $1500+ build. I think I'd stick RTX over AMD for 2 reasons: RT performance if it becomes more important, and I've heard for VR it just has to be NV, AMDs apparently just don't agree with VR well. Sony's making the VR2 PC compatible at some point and it opens up better Meta headsets.

Still indecisive. Smart money is stick Xbox and hope they have a plan to turn it around. I'd save probably $3000+ and a lot of free time to play games instead of work shopping carts and builds. But I'm very dubious of Nadella's intentions.