
There's some big news coming out of Microsoft this morning related to the IRS, with Microsoft confirming that the Internal Revenue Service is requesting $28.9 billion (!) in back taxes relating to the period between 2004 and 2013.
Microsoft says it disagrees with the "proposed adjustments" put forward by the IRS, and therefore will embark on an appeals process. The company also mentions that the $28.9 billion figure doesn't take the "taxes paid by Microsoft under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" into account, which could decrease the final audit's figure by up to $10 billion.
Here's a bit of what the company has had to say about the IRS tax audit:
"The IRS recently sent us a series of Notices of Proposed Adjustment (NOPAs), sharing with us for the first time detailed information and explanations of their views about the issues in question."
"Microsoft disagrees with these proposed adjustments and will pursue an appeal within the IRS, a process expected to take several years. We believe we have always followed the IRS’ rules and paid the taxes we owe in the U.S. and around the world. Microsoft historically has been one of the top U.S. corporate income taxpayers. Since 2004, we have paid over $67 billion in taxes to the U.S."
What the dispute is about
"The main disagreement is the way Microsoft allocated profits during this time period among countries and jurisdictions. This is commonly referred to as transfer pricing and the IRS has established regulations that allow companies to use a specific arrangement for transfer pricing, called cost-sharing."
"Many large multinationals use cost-sharing because it reflects the global nature of their business. Because our subsidiaries shared in the costs of developing certain intellectual property, under those IRS cost-sharing regulations, the subsidiaries were also entitled to the related profits."
Microsoft believes it has "acted in accordance with IRS rules and regulations and that our position is supported by case law", and therefore hopes to "reach a mutual resolution" with the IRS over the coming years.
It sounds like this is going to be dragged out over a very long time, but ultimately $28.9 billion is a big chunk of change (almost 4 times what Microsoft paid for Bethesda a few years ago!), so it's not a matter to be taken lightly. It obviously doesn't affect Xbox directly, but who knows if it could end up having an impact down the line...
What are your thoughts on this? Let us know down in the comments section below.
[source blogs.microsoft.com]
Comments 26
I expect this to be contested in the courts for several years.
That is an insane amount of money.
@Netret0120 Microsoft is first pursuing an appeal within the IRS, this alone will take years. I'd expect them to have to pay a cut down amount, probably around $20+ billion, when all is said and done, if they currently think they can 'only' reduce it by $10 billion.
And while Microsoft may have a market cap of $2.47 trillion they 'only' have around £111 billion cash on hand, this is a giant wedge even for Microsoft.
@themightyant even if they have to pay 20 Billion as an example; would it all be in one instalment out of that 111B? Or would they be able to spread it?
Everyone should pay their taxes correctly in the first place. So not defending Microsoft; but to already be 10 billion out in your demands is crazy!
this is the US government trying to claw back cash because they are 33 trillion in debt
strange how the FTC didnt stop the Activision deal that is just about to go though and suddenly another government agency wants its pound of flesh.
coincidence or sour grapes?
no one should just blindly pay what ever tax demand turns up. half the time these government agencies are wrong and are trying to get money from you they arnt entitled to
As tax services chew out small businesses and individual, hounding for every single cent, good to see them actually come after big businesses who have been corcumventing the system for many years and hopefully MS has to pay the entire thing. They have a trillion dollars, pay what they owe.
@BrilliantBill Not sure about the "Phil once said it is not a money transaction per se." pretty certain you have this wrong as it was specifically announced as an all cash deal at around $95 per share.
@K1LLEGAL They would almost certainly be able to come to some terms to spread the payments. Just as we can do if we are in arrears.
@Rmg0731 They DON'T have a trillion dollars, they have a company that is valued at 2.47 trillion dollars, but that's not the same thing. They currently have around $111 billion in cash, see my first post. But completely agree they shouldn't be able to avoid tax like this and should pay what they owe.
@Kidfried Fascinating read. Many thanks for the share. Some gem quotes for any who don't want to read the whole thing:
Nothing like having elected officials in your pocket eh?
"How about another campaign contribution"
I plan to appeal my IRS request of $15 in back taxes.
@Kaloudz Yes they owe this, or some similar number, they have been caught tax dodging... whether they actually ever have to pay it, or only a small bit of it, depends on how well they can argue their case... and how many palms they have greased. Grubby business.
In all honesty all corporations need to pay more in taxes. %wise they pay way less than the average person and make about a billion times more. I'd say find a medium of 20% for everyone around the globe and the world would be a better place. Really don't care if they have to pay this.
@Kidfried While I don't necessarily agree with tax evading practices, let's be fair here and say that most American business do this kind of stuff in order to increase profits and reduce taxes. This isn't just limited to Microsoft.
@Kaloudz The entire tax system is just insane! While I am sure Microsoft is doing everything it can to lower the amount of taxes it pays, I am sure Microsoft thought it was working within the bounds of law as stated in an overly convoluted system that has tons of loopholes and interpretive language. Corporations have teams of people pouring over tax code to figure out what it legally can do to reduce money going out the window.
Corporations can be scummy, but they still want to work within the system and not outside of it. Why risk massive government scrutiny/audit that could potentially destroy everything?
It's still all a big money-making game, but a game that companies still want to play fairly. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
They are all at it, and the politicians aren't just letting it happen they are actively opposing any kind of negative impacts on the business. I remember when apple were told they werent allowed to funnel there taxes through Ireland anymore at some ridiculous amount and the Irish government were trying to find ways for apple to get around it
@BrilliantBill unfortunately I don't think you can get a straight answer as there are a couple ways companies can pay. I'll try to keep it simple.
It's an acquisition not a merger so Microsoft is paying to buy all the shares of AB. They could do this by giving MS stock but they have stated it will be just with cash.
How they get the cash to buy the AB stocks is unknown. They could pay out of pocket but that goes against business 101. Most likely they will take a debt (think loan). They would put that $69B on their expense report and pay it off over time.
Classic US government, takes 20 years to decide there was a tax error from one of the biggest tax contributers in the world.
I would guess Microsoft will ultimately win the appeal or pay substantially less than that. Our tax laws are not very precise and Microsoft has some of the best lawyers in the country. They likely knew they were legally exploiting a loophole.
@Krzzystuff In ways I agree with you. But in other ways I don't.
Corporations pay salaries (and Microsoft pays extremely well). In fact, any money the company puts into its business is money that is tax deductible.
Microsoft is also extremely charitable. Charity is also tax deductible as long as you pay the threshold based on earnings. Now, I would much rather money go directly towards an organization or a cause rather than let legislatures put money towards...whatever political interest the current majority holds.
Yes, there are other legal ways to skim off the top, but I don't think it's the corporation itself that is the problem: the corporation is providing jobs to people and goods and services to people.
All the people at the top of the ladder - who are only doing this to line their pockets while also employing tax-skimming practices of their own - that are the problem.
I say go after the personal tax evaders moreso than the company itself.
My understanding, @BrilliantBill, is that much of the money used to purchase ABK is immediately reabsorbed back into Microsoft due to the net value and earnings of ABK. At least, I think that is what they meant... 😂
@GamingFan4Lyf I think it's worth reading the link @kidfried posted which is assembled from court documents and implies Microsoft were committing BOTH
So no Microsoft weren't "working within the bounds of law". What they likely did think is they were working within the bounds of what they could get away with.
Cancel the activision deal we are broke!
All governments should go after corporations that are proactively look for tax loopholes or commit tax evasion, Microsoft are planning to spend $69 billion on ABK whilst being in arrears to the tune of almost $29 billion, its ridiculous.
I watched a podcast with Yanis Varoufakis where he says that Amazon made 42 billion in profit in Europe alone and payed zero taxes. Meanwhile the great poor masses are being constantly squeezed, its f@king reprehensible...
GamingFan4Lyf wrote:
No. It's a subtle distinction but deliberately breaking the law, while thinking you can get away with it, is not the same as working within the laws, however broken they may be.
I agree basically all large companies are employing tax avoidance schemes. But these are within the law, even if many are loopholes and morally dubious. But I don't think most are purposefully evading tax which is specifically breaking the law.
I also don't think "all corporations are bad" either, businesses are great and they do plenty of good, I have run my own in the past. I just don't think it's right the TINY percentage of tax these giant corporations pay (not just Microsoft but Amazon, Apple, Nike, Starbucks, Sony etc.) compared to every other business that gives them an uncompetitive advantage and keeps them ahead. Nor do I think it is OK that they have a stream of government officials in their back pockets shaping laws on their behalf, or arguing their cause.
The book needs to be thrown at them ALL, and loopholes need to be removed or have protections to stop this. But it won't, there's too much money and power and favours involved. So yes, as a small business owner who abided by the rules AND didn't take the piss with tax avoidance, I am thrilled when these giants get caught and have to pay.
And the same goes for individuals. I see Bernie Ecclestone slimy former boss of Formula 1 just pleaded guilty to tax fraud and has to repay £653m to HMRC (His Majesties Revenue & Customs) the British tax office. Good! Nice to see governments actually working as intended for once!
theMightyRant out
@themightyant I agree about corporations.
I also don't think government officials should be allowed to be in the corporate back pocket!
There are so many things that need to change with tax laws, corporate laws, and even the legislators.
Unfortunately, these legislators have to be the ones to stop it, but since it lines their pockets, too, I don't see it happening.
There should be term limits to legislators. Lobbying should be banned all together. And taxes should be completely overhauled to be loophole-proof and ensure everyone pays their required %.
This whole thing that some people paid "too much" and get a tax return where others "owe" because they didn't pay enough is just dumb. Just take out the correct amount right off the bat and leave it at that.
I'm assuming that the CMA will block this.
@GamingFan4Lyf Amen to all that!
TF are people defending a company like Microsoft about paying taxes, this is outrageous.
Microsoft should pay their taxes not write them off like i'm sure they do. Imagine defending a company like Microsoft from not paying taxes as if they are angels of sorts.
Kaloudz wrote:
Because Microsoft have taken extreme measures to try and hide their dodgy tax affairs in layers and layers of complexity spread accross many countries around the globe. And they have opposed the IRS in getting to the bottom of them, including getting elected officials to change the laws so that it’s harder to detect this sort of tax fraud. Because it took a judge 3 whole years to make a ruling. And because even if it’s the IRS, compared to Microsoft and their army of lawyers, paid off politicians and lobbyists it’s like David v Goliath.
I agree it’s taken a crazy long time but the odds are stacked against the IRS here. Seems clear Microsoft were banking on them giving up, but the IRS stuck with it, digging into the case for years. The link posted above by kidfried in #9 is a long read but breaks it down into pretty basic terms. It’s worth persevering with if you want to better understand what has gone on here.
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