In a first appearance since the launch of Redfall, Xbox Boss Phil Spencer today featured on a Kinda Funny podcast to discuss the state of Xbox moving forward.
Naturally, the discussion quickly moved to Redfall's launch and how Xbox might go about navigating its future releases, in order to avoid similar mistakes with other first party games. In short, Phil says that Xbox "needs to improve" on engagement with its development teams.
"There's games that are in development when we acquire a studio, and there's things that are either really early in development or not even conceived yet, and I think we need to improve on engaging in games that are midway through production when they become part of Xbox."
Phil went on to talk about the additional expectations that come with being an Xbox first party developer, hinting that these expectations may have hurt the public perception of Redfall.
"I do think there's a different expectation for a game, even a team, when you've been third party and all of a sudden you become part of first party. There's a different expectation in terms of how you're going to perform on our console.
I think there's a different competitive set when people look at what this game is and other games that they're going to say 'hey, I want this game to feel as competitive as this other game, on another console platform' in our case."
The Xbox boss also admitted that he and his leadership team "could engage earlier" with their dev teams to try and help them become better integrated into Xbox first party.
"We didn't do a good job early on in engaging with Arkane Austin to really help them understand what it meant to be part of Xbox and part of first party and use some of our internal resources to help them and kind of move along that journey even faster.
We left them to go work on the game, they've a very talented team — I love that team and I still do — and I will totally bet on them to do another great game.
I think we could engage earlier with our different studios."
Clearly, Phil is taking some of the blame here and rightly so - looking at Redfall's launch, it clearly should have arrived in a better state. Like the Xbox Boss himself says though, we too have faith that Arkane can deliver something great with its next Xbox first party title.
What do you think to Phil's comments here? Is he right to say Xbox should have stepped in earlier? Let us know your thoughts.
[source youtu.be]
Comments 161
"I do think there's a different expectation for a game, even a team, when you've been third party and all of a sudden you become part of first party. There's a different expectation in terms of how you're going to perform on our console."
No, Phil. People expect good games regardless of them being first or third party. Not ones which are rushed out, full of bugs and lacking in basic features like 60FPS.
If you're going to ask people for $70 then gamers don't expect to be treated as beta testers.
Well Bethesda stated:
“ "We've made the difficult decision to delay the launches of Redfall and Starfield to the first half of 2023. The teams at Arkane Austin (Redfall) and Bethesda Game Studios (Starfield) have incredible ambitions for their games, and we want to ensure that you receive the best, most polished versions of them.”
http://www.gamesradar.com/starfield-delay/
So why should we believe Spencer when he claims they will do what they should have been doing day one? Stop wasting time and resources chasing ridiculous dreams of buying the worlds biggest game titles, and start doing your job and properly managing the studios you do have!
@Microbius 😄
@Microbius lol, I know! This article, I think, will receive so many comments...
Still no apology, that’s abit shocking
Just finished watching it, I thought it was a good interview and he took some responsibility. Hopefully he can get things back on track for the rest of the year and beyond. While I'm not overly excited for Starfield, only mildly curious, I really really hope it delivers for everyone!
This doesn't make sense because Phil Spencer literally posted a tweet to say that it was a difficult decision to delay redfall and starfield. So you knew the projects were having problems a year ago. When you already knew there was a problem then at that point you would expect that you'd keep a close eye on them, with stricter quality checks. It's not like this was a last minute thing, where on Sunday you saw the finished game and thought "oh no we can't do anything now because we have to release it on Monday".
It’s always great to hear from Phil even when it’s under disappointing circumstances. Redfall ultimately didn’t deliver, even though I quite enjoy playing it, but I still believe in Phil and everyone over at team Xbox. This is the reality of publishing games. Not everything is going to hit, and unfortunately for Xbox they are under a microscope right now, so the failures hit that much harder.
Microsofts infamous hands off approach seems to work with some developers, and not with others.
What they need to do is learn from their mistakes and not repeat them. If a certain studio needs a stick, you best start beating them with it.
I imagine it is difficult balance to get, but that's not really the consumers problem. Maybe Microsoft was worried about stepping on toes, with developers who were half way through a game, when they were purchased. Pretty poor excuse in my opinion. I suspect Arkane will get alot more assistance after Redfall dropped so badly.
Think il give the whole interview a listen while I finish my work for the day. Hope he's honest
I do think people need to watch the whole interview rather than just comment on a few quotes. They asked some hard questions and got some pretty upfront responses from Phil. He's clearly very angry about how things have played out, and much of that anger is directed towards himself. I did like that he specifically commented on being more transparent in regards to showing console footage during trailers etc rather than just PC and making sure people know what they're looking at. That is vital for the showcase in June.
Yet another big mouth criticizing Xbox…. Oh wait…
This is a defeated deflated man today. He’s been saying Xbox needs to improve for years. Infact when you break it down we learned NOTHING new today.
He skirts around answering actual questions by directing the conversation to how he believes their teams should have creative freedom…rather than answering why these delayed games are released unpolished and missing features. Devs having creative freedom has never been the issue.
He then says something odd like redfall was too far gone and for it to be released with the quality expected (60fps decent ai and animation) people from Rare or other studios would have had to help last fall - the game was delayed literally a whole year ago…so he had some knowledge at that point that Arkane may have needed the extra help - it was never asked why they weren’t offered it back then.
The only positive thing he says is the acknowledgment of how financially important console players are to Xbox…but even in that he offers a mixed message at the end where he doesn’t want console owners feeling ‘second class’ yet they’re no longer the priority because they lost too much footing last gen as players are tied to PlayStations ecosystem so what’s the point?… this ignores that having players tied to an ecosystem is what brings in safe money (a sub doesn’t offer this) so it’s worth putting more effort in to make up ground with the console.
And it also ignores Nintendo - those players aren’t buying Nintendo consoles because they have hundreds of digital games from last gen tied to their profiles. They’re buying them because of Nintendo games
@Rob3008 to be fair, he is not wrong. A game like Redfall would had simply been brushed under the rug and forgotten about rather quickly if Bethesda was an independent Publisher. As a first party, any poor game they ship will be scrutinized a lot more, and rightfully so.
What Phil said doesn't really fit with what some people are saying that the game was originally supposed to be live service filled with mtx and MS made them change the design.
The most worrying part though is it sounds like even after the initial delay where they must have been aware that there were issues, they didn't offer any assistance or expertise from elsewhere to help with optimisation etc.
The thing is, MS themselves should have seen the state of the game and reduced expectations accordingly, not charged £70 etc...
The fact that MS took on a game in rough shape isn't the problem, it's what they did afterwards that's the issue here. Had Redfall shadow dropped on Game Pass instead of Hi Fi Rush and cost just £20 I doubt the blowback would be so high. This was marketed however as a title to offset their admittedly pretty empty 2022, and so I have to say, not good enough.
I'm glad he's taken the criticism and accepted changes are made.
I'm still pretty excited for a number of the big games Xbox have coming up, like Starfield, Avowed and Forza Motorsport - and being a fan of Western RPGs I know I'm going to be well catered for.
My main concern was the fact that if they didn't start to hit the big AAA must-have games (which are often not actually my favourites, usually action-adventure instead of RPG) they'd start to lose market share even more and lose more games to PlayStation etc.
But he's addressed it, and I'm happy to wait and see what the June showcase looks like - and how the Activision appeal / EU ruling goes, and if badly what the alternative plan is.
I think it’s time for Phil to go. He seems like a good dude to hang out with but his ability to be in charge of studios producing a good product is terrible.
I've not watched this yet, will do later, but i'm glad Gary Whitta is there. He doesn't give two f**ks who he's talking to, while he often gets things horrifically wrong, he also says it as he sees it. No BS.
Plus love a Gary-rant
Kinda sounds like damage control to me. Blaming it on mid production despite delays? Just passing the blame.
If StarField doesn't succeed (and I've said for a while it looks mediocre to my taste) then Xbox is in serious trouble.
I see comments all the time of people claiming they're cancelling GamePass, and console sales are apparently down. Not looking good.
Redfall was hyped up by fans and execs alike and it's another classic case of hype over expectation. And that's also what I feel will be the case with StarField. Just as with Halo Infinite after multiple delays. Buggy and unfinished.
Look, I'll admit I'm a cynical guy. But I do feel that Bethesda have had their time in the sun. Fallout 3 was amazing. As was Oblivion and Skyrim, while it didn't hit me as hard was great. After that they've been pretty mediocre.
I really do believe there is a serious mismanagement problem internally. And yet they want more studios when they can't handle what they have? It'll be a disaster.
Say what you want about Sony. But with less money, resources, studios and IP's, they're kicking Xbox's butt.
@Kevw2006
some people are saying that the game was originally supposed to be live service filled with mtx and MS made them change the design
I'm quite alright with Microsoft bining the live service filled with mtx side of Redfall, assuming is not just speculation. The game is very far from perfect but at least is not, on top off all that also filled with egregious mtx.
Will any truth ever come from that man? Why doesn't he act sooner, should my studios fail so radically that it tarnishes my brand, I wouldn't have "what talents, I love them, etc" Lame and fake. 👎
Spencer pretty much admits what I've always wondered: Xbox is entirely TOO hands-off with their developers. There's something to be said for letting the teams work in peace, but the lack of oversight given to their projects is a MAJOR problem. whoever is responsible for keeping the teams on track, and getting these games completed on time and in good shape isn't doing a very good job to say the least. i think Microsoft is at a point where they will need to decide whether Xbox as a brand is worth continuing, but if it is, there will need to be a MAJOR restructuring, possibly starting with Phil himself. He's been in his position for 10 years and is Xbox in a much greater place than when he started? They were in distant 3rd place when he was promoted. where are they now..?
@Sol4ris I definitely agree that it would have been a good decision. But for me Phil's comments don't really fit with that being the case as he said that "We left them to go work on the game" after the acquired ZeniMax. Perhaps the buyout and the security that came with it just left to an internal change of direction rather than it coming from MS.
Redfall is the result when your employees come into work and do an hours work a day while sipping a matcha latte before visiting the office yoga room. Xbox have been too hands off obviously. Phil’s been in the job a long time now, this is 100% self inflicted.
Phil also supposedly said Redfall isn’t worth $70 🤣
Keep saying they have Nobody in charge of game development with actual game building experience. Phil is the perfect PR guy and went to bat to get the great backwards compatible games done. But he needs to hire somebody to oversee game development.
I will keep it simple.
Get off your PR and manage your team to manage.
Stay on PR and give someone else your job who is capable of managing.
I’m glad he finally is talking and taking some of the responsibility. Keeping quiet after a few hits to Xbox isn’t assuring to its gamers. A lot of confidence has been lost and it’s going to take some much better delivery from Xbox to restore some of that confidence. Of course I haven’t given up on the console, but I am wondering what’s going on over there. I think it’s time to start tightening some of the strings over there.
Removed - unconstructive; user is banned
Phil should hire Tim Schaffer to manage game development. At the very least he understands what makes a great game.
As many have said, it's quite simple. They are marketing their wares to the consumer (in this case, their beloved xbox community) and asking said consumer to give them $70 to purchase said product with PRIOR KNOWLEDGE that said product is crap. It's not a matter of "You know, guys, sorry, we tried." It's "We KNOWINGLY did and continue to try to take your $70 for a crap product."
How about cutting the price to say $24.99 to align with quality provided to consumer?
Just listened to the interview and I don't know, I find it hard to dislike Phil. First of all props to the guy for turning up and doing an interview so soon after the Redfall debacle and I also agree with some of the things he said regarding the diversity in their portfolio and the fact that the games they have put out recently have done really well (Hi-fi Rush, Pentiment and so on). .
What is very obvious from the interview though is that Xbox don't seem to have much of an idea of what goes on in the individual studios and the state of these games before release. Comes obviously from their hands off approach but it's very telling how hands off they are and I don't think it's necessarily a good thing.
@BRT15 I think Phil is great as a PR guy and has some cool t-shirts 🤣. But it's most apparent their is a disconnect between mgmt. and developers and that is where they have a big problem. Sony and Nintendo have people in charge who used to make games not play twitter lol
@Rob3008 Yes, there is. If Redfall wasn't an Xbox first party it would be so criticized for 30fps for example. But being first party it has to perform the best on their own platform.
@old-dad explain to me why the bugs in Scarlet and Violet still aren’t fixed?
@Kevw2006
All people saying that have been guessing, I am one such person that simply has assumed such a thing happened, and when I said it I had not even read the theory anywhere else (I dont read every news or rumor site.)
A lot of things could have happened since the acquisition. Bethesda itself could had simply told Arcane "don't worry about MTX anymore, we don't need that stuff to survive anymore, just focus on finishing the core game."
@mousieone Not a Nintendo developed game
@FatalBubbles
I think it's time for this narrow minded talking point to go. Xbox even exists thanks to Phil, and no, its not just stuff he already did, its stuff he is still doing. Do you think Tatsumi or Jimbo spend their day to day this closely involved with studio management? No, they have other layers doing the studio operational management in between them, several most often than not.
Truth is, if there is a management issue in the chain on Microsoft's side, it's not Phil, and chances are none of us will actually know whom is the weak link in such a chain.
Just watched it all and thought he did admirably. Obviously it's just words, as he said himself, but he took ownership of the issues and it's good to know he, and Xbox know what they are.
The only question is: is he the man to fix them? I still think so, but something needs to change in how they manage their studios. It's all well and good to be hands off and allow the developers to manage themselves if they are putting out quality on time, but if they aren't someone needs to intervene.
Allow me to be the first to wish you good luck, @DoctorJohnDisco. This is exactly the decision I made at the beginning of the last generation following the disastrous TV, TV, TV showcase that Xbox had prior to the Xbox One launch.
Why do I wish you good luck?
I'll add you to my comment too, @Green-Bandit, as it may help you.
Well, I spent £2000 on a gaming PC. That is enough to buy FOUR Series X consoles, with £100 left over to spend on games. Yes, games are cheaper, but you would have to buy thousands of games to recoup that money. Then, I spent many an evening intending to play a game with my two mates, only for one of us to find that we just couldn't get a game running, or couldn't talk to one another (admittedly, that's improved now with Discord), or after just 4 years, my £2000 PC just died.
Now I'll admit, I know little about PC's, but I was flummoxed so many times when trying to sort my PC, that I ended up without it for weeks at a time. I could probably have got it fixed, but my mate, who works for IT, thought it likely that it was the graphics card, which would cost upward of a £1000 to replace. So, just 4 years after I bought my first PC, I bought another one, this one costing £2600. I've had it about 4 years now, and it still works perfectly, though my mates and I have now moved back to consoles as they are so much less hassle.
So, take it from a guy that spent £4600 on two gaming PC's in the space of just 4 years, which to reiterate is enough to have bought TEN Series X consoles, that unless you really know your way around PCs, it is not the golden land that everyone from the PC Master Race would have you believe...
@old-dad OMG you did not just do that. Wow see that’s the problem. All of that companies have issues. I’m going call them out. MS/Xbox takes an L on this But Don’t bring up Nintendo, if you don’t expect me to go through their laundry list of sins. That’s the problem with the Triple A industry. Fans like you act like certain companies are perfect.
The industry is trash right now. We need to hold the accountable.
I would recommend watching the full show in context before passing comment. The quotes here are just a small snippet of an hour long conversation. To be fair to Phil he was very honest and blunt about the situation and the questions were great too. He also has something in the background of the actual video that looks like a switch, but not sure if it is?
@Rob3008 People 'expect' very polished games but rarely get them from 3rd Party developed multi-platform games. Elden Ring launched with an 'unplayable' 30fps mode (due to the inherent poor Frame Pacing) and its '60fps' was 'erratic' and inconsistent, yet expect first party games to be 'flawless'.
Racing games too for example - Forza Motorsport was expected to deliver a perfect '60fps' and at 1080p on XB1 hardware, yet all its 'multi-platform' 3rd party competitors (like Project Cars for example) either drop frames a lot - especially if wet weather and/or lots of cars are on screen - or don't offer the resolution/visual presentation.
Also, because Sony who only make their games for one 'Hardware' spec can make 'Spider-Man' with RT, 60fps and 4k, then ALL Series X games should match that. Starfield is expected to be '60fps' and 'compete' with Horizon - even though they are completely different games, made by completely different devs, different 'priorities' and different ambitions, different game engine too.
Its 'ok' for MANY publishers to put out games that aren't 100% perfect - not 'Native' 4k and/or a locked, perfectly delivered frame rate. But if 1st Party release games that aren't 'perfect', its a major catastrophe. Star Wars: Jedi Survivor wasn't 'ready' to release (not really), neither was Gotham Knights or Cyberpunk and whilst for some, it can be 'detrimental' to their rep, others (like FromSoftware) keep getting away with incorrect frame pacing, 30/60fps but only if you look at the sky, numerous bugs, glitches, issues that really should have been 'fixed' before launch - especially some games that had beta's/early access or demo and the public were 'expecting' performance and bug related issues to be resolved by launch.
All he is saying is that expectation is much higher for 1st Party, they cannot get away with as much, and their audience will not be so forgiving. They expect 'more' from 1st Party - higher res, better 'graphics', better performance etc. If Starfield wasn't owned by MS, people would 'expect' it to be 'buggy/broken' at launch, 30fps etc but now its owned by MS, they expect 'better'...
@old-dad Nintendo own Pokémon so Nintendo not only supply funds for their games but also oversee the project and have the final say. Same goes for Redfall, it's on Microsoft as much as it is Bethesda and same with playstation if any of its First Party games launched a mess, it would be Sony's fault.
More I reflect on this interview the more I’m frustrated at the kinda funny crew. Under all that humbleness, Phil deflecting so much.
The whole ‘we’re gonna make 60 rated games we’re gonna make 90 rated games…games not just to your personal liking, but designed for everyone…so like it or lump it!’ Is complete misdirection from the point. Enjoyment of a game is subjective. Quality of a game (bugs, lack of polish, unfinished features) is not - and that played a big part in why redfall earned its reviews…not personal taste.
This, along with not answering why it was actually released in that state (prefering to answer why it was in that state), and a multitude of other things, makes it such a frustrating watch as you want the kinda funny crew to pull him up on actually answering the questions that have raised such concern with players that Phil finds himself having to do the interview in the first place.
@UltimateOtaku91 @mousieone @Sebatrox
Nintendo does not own Game Freak. They're closely associated, but are different companies. Which is likely why some of their non-Pokemon games have appeared on rival hardware.
Microsoft owns Bethesda.
@Ralizah So who owns Pokemon? If its Gamefreak then Pokémon could come to other platforms, if Nintendo own the IP then they would still have the final say and oversee it's development to a certain degree.
@UltimateOtaku91 Pokemon is owned by The Pokemon Company, a joint venture between 3 companies: Game Freak, Nintendo and Creatures Inc.
Each owns a third of the company, and none can unilaterally call the shots. Creatures is an interesting one because I think its half-owned by Nintendo, and I think the Pokemon creator, and Game Freak? Not sure there, would have to dig more on that one.
As i've said a couple of times I initially was going to go ps5 but changed my mind last minute to Xbox. I think, at this point though, they are running out of time to make their case. The glaring problem since the launch of Xone has been lack of quality exclusives. This isn't new, this isn't a surprise, it's been a decade. All i can say is my switch will be getting a lot of use this year, might be a playstation under my tree at xmas.
@UltimateOtaku91 @Ralizah I know that Nintendo doesn’t outright own GameFreak. But they do own a part of the Pokémon IP and Nintendo published it. It’s as much on Nintendo that Scarlrt and Violet are broken as ir is on GameFreak. That’s what I’m saying.
@DoctorJohnDisco Literally about ready to go PC and leave consoles. These exclusives so far have been *****. Hate to say it.
I have thought about that also, only games are running awful on PC at launch. Last of Us was something i thought would have been done right for PC and it’s a train wreck, thats only one example but optimization on PC this last year or so has been trash. So i am hesitant that would bring me more enjoyment. Now if it works for you i would be happy to hear it 😀
@UltimateOtaku91 @mousieone Lol the what aboutism is hilarious . but but but 🤣
As much as I despise PS fanboys, it is still true that MS deserves most of the blame for Redfall turning out poorly.
But it is commendable that Phil owned up to it. And I feel like MS will right the ship as fast as possible.
@mousieone As much on? Eh... no. A manufacterer with a partial stake in the company that manages the brand is not as responsible as the actual developer of the game itself.
Nintendo could probably exert pressure on TPC and GF to manage timeframes and quality control better if they wanted, especially since they're the ones who publish the games, but why would they if they're meeting sales expectations? Should Nintendo police the quality control of every company they have a close relationship with?
Ultimately, Nintendo likely has much stricter standards for games developed by their own people than games they merely publish from a second-party partner. Whereas Bethesda's mess is ENTIRELY on Microsoft's head.
Phil - the always nice guy who always states the obvious. All talk, zero walk. I encourage Phil to get into politics. I think Microsoft needs to just fire Phil and get some ex-military douche to run the gaming division. "If this game doesn't score 9's and 10's, everyone dies." Someone on that level.
@old-dad you brought up Nintendo first. But cute. You made it a what about-ism when you tried to make Nintendo the white Lily Corp. I said Xbox deserves the L and they do. I wouldn’t even commented had you not made it a what about-ism.
Hey @UltimateOtaku91 you an Xbot now?
@mousieone Stretch some more lmao
@mousieone No but I like to debate people's false statements 😂
Good interview. I have a Series X, PS5 and Switch and still play my Series X more than anything. As for Sony, I’m just getting bored of the same formula over and over again. I like that risks are being taken, even if they fail, because there’s more games than I can ever play to begin with. Hi-Fi Rush was amazing and Tango went way out of its comfort zone for that.
Anyway, could care less about people who are “done” with Xbox. I still see a bright future with a wide variety of games in the works.
@UltimateOtaku91 Expanding on pokemon:
Creatures is basically in charge of designing the Pokemon themselves, as well as coordinating the card game
Game Freak makes the games
The Pokemon Company coordinates all other merchandise and media (anime/comics/toys/card games?)
Nintendo is simply the publisher, but they own enough in the company to make sure the video games stay Nintendo console exclusives for perpetuity.
Note this is not an excuse for Nintendo, they have shipped their share of bad/incomplete games. The Mario Tennis/Strikers games come to mind.
@Tharsman ah I see thanks for the details. I would still say Nintendo have some say in actual games though especially if they own the IP and are the publisher. It's not like Sony with Forspoken as they didn't own the IP and they wasn't the publishers but in Nintendo's case surely they would of sat down with Gamefreak and gone through the game before releasing it.
@Tharsman Now that I can agree with. I can say those games are playable with the modern day game release it now add content later
@Tharsman or shipping emulated games as a “rare” physical?
@Ralizah The game reflected poorly on Nintendo. and they apologized for it. It’s a IP that is as intertwined with Nintendo and a reflection on their brand. Otherwise why apologize? Nintendo are ones people expected to answer for it and still do. And Nintendo again is the one that apologized for it.
“
@old-dad really so you didn’t say “ Sony and Nintendo have people in charge who used to make games not play twitter” back in post #35?
Yeah that’s what I thought. And I can’t believe you just excused a game releasing with a lack of content. You are ridiculous
@Tharsman Nintendo's version of the "live service" model, where they take a presumably already complete game and just release the content over the course of a year or so, is hideous.
It arguably contributed to New Horizons being one of the worst Animal Crossing games as well.
And, in general, they're becoming far too comfortable designing games around the inclusion of DLC for my liking.
While I do think Nintendo's output is fantastic overall, there are definitely aspects that I disagree with.
@Ralizah I think you're spot on, but also like Mousie said, it always reflects on Nintendo because they are partially responsible and out in front of it since it's their exclusive game. Really though, Pokemon is a weird beast, and nothing about the Pokemon situation is even close to what this situation with Microsoft is. Pokemon as a franchise is a titanic and wildly successful problem. I played Violet and the game itself is pretty competent, but yeesh, Game Freak has got to get a handle on 3D games sooner or later.
@UltimateOtaku91 They likely have a vote, but at the end of the day they are as likely to be out-voted.
The Pokemon Company coordinates a lot of stuff around the launch of a generation. It's not just the game coming out, is a manga kicking off, a TV show, a new card game, toys, once that ball is rolling it's not easy to stop it because Game Freak was too ambitious for the time they had available. Pokemon is basically not an IP, its a whole industry, tons of jobs are on the line if they don't meet their deadlines because Game Freak dropped the ball.
@mousieone If you want to make the argument that Nintendo should intervene because it reflects poorly on their brand, whether it's made by them or not, I think that's a much more coherent position to stake out. And one I have conflicted feelings about. But it's a logical opinion nonetheless.
@SplooshDmg Pokemon is fascinating. Not only is the brand too big and iconic to fail, but sometimes it feels like sales are inversely proportional to the quality of the game itself.
The highest selling games from this generation will likely be Sword/Shield and Scarlet/Violet, and the lowest will probably be Legends: Arceus.
There really is no incentive whatsoever to improve.
@Ralizah Oh, absolutely. Pokemon is 100% too big to fail. I've been meaning to pick-up Arceus, but I got Violet for morbid curiosity. It was okay, I think the 70's on Metacritic actually reflect its quality. The game itself isn't awful, but the experience itself is still rough.
But like you said, it sold like wild. Why improve if you don't need to? It's pretty disappointing and kinda hard to figure out who exactly to point fingers at, because everyone in that joint venture is just raking in money, good decisions or not.
@SplooshDmg To add to this, the gulf in quality between their main gen games, which likely need to be coordinated with the rollout of anime, merchandise, etc. and something like PLA which can probably just sort of... drop whenever... tells me that it's not unlikely that Game Freak IS capable of doing better, but is on a timeline that it would be a gigantic hassle to deviate from.
3D open world games are vastly more complex than what they were making on the Game Boy, but I feel like their development timelines per generation haven't changed all that much.
@Ralizah I really think that's it. The entire franchise is so hinged around things like anime and cards being released. Those games are completely intertwined with that. So, I do think that's a huge issue is that TPC truly is three major products all being released in tandem, and slowing down the game cycle also slows down the anime and card cycle. Which really just isn't giving Game Freak the amount of time that's truly needed.
@SplooshDmg @Ralizah Here’s the thing my only point literally my only points is that it’s reflection on their brand. Nintendo went out an apologizes for it and then said they were going to work on fixing it. But haven’t. There is no motivation.just like there is no motivation to oversee the end product. The triple A industry simply doesn’t care and Nintendo is just as motivated not to care when something is making them a ton of money.
@mousieone I honestly don't think we're disputing that. If anything, the point of our discussion here is that Pokemon is like, the absolute highest peak possible. Pokemon is so huge and successful, no one has any reason to care whatsoever. It's not a situation that would work out for many other franchises.
The below says it all, lies and terrible management:
Well Bethesda stated:
“ "We've made the difficult decision to delay the launches of Redfall and Starfield to the first half of 2023. The teams at Arkane Austin (Redfall) and Bethesda Game Studios (Starfield) have incredible ambitions for their games, and we want to ensure that you receive the best, most polished versions of them.”
I now don’t trust Xbox with anything at all.
They are probably at lowest they have ever been since the Xbox one press conference.
@Ralizah I would dare say Nintendo [as an entity, and including Pokemon here because it is a public perception] has bleeped up more times than XBox has.
The problem is the hit-ratio. Nintendo's output of good-at-launch games definitively outnumbers their bad ones.
Microsoft also has shipped more good games than bad ones, but most of them are too low-profile to change the popular opinion.
I do wonder, what if Redfall had gotten no marketing and simply released, and instead they had marketed the hell out of Hi-Fi Rush for a year...
I watched this show, and the most telling part is towards the end, where he basically states don't expect Xbox to compete on the level of Sony or Nintendo with consoles, they want to make games and Game Pass for all platforms.
That was his response when asked if they aren't giving the Xbox console the same attention as PC Game Pass etc. this is in stark contrast to what he said about the Xbox Series when it was launched.
This was because he basically said they can't compete with Sony and Nintendo and have to find their own way which is Game Pass.
For me that doesn't instil confidence that the console will be around much longer in its current form in their business plan. Maybe they'll sell a streaming box or something? As someone who wants that console experience it may be truly time to bow out.
@Dezzy70 Well there's likely another lie in that statement as they say Starfield is coming the first half of 2023, but we're 5 months in and we haven't seen much of it yet and no real marketing for it either. Now they might keep their word but that would mean either releasing it a couple of weeks after their showcase or shadow dropping it which is 99.99% unlikely.
@Tharsman I really think Hi-Fi Rush should have been heavily marketed, and Redfall probably should have just been released as an early access game like Grounded. Let players get in and see what they like, what they don't like, and just grow it into a proper 1.0 release. Nothing about the idea of Redfall is really bad to me. It's a solid take on an open world shooter. However, it just feels undercooked and misguided. So, things I think actual player feedback could have maybe pushed in the right direction.
@Ralizah With the amount of money that Nintendo, The PLC and Gamefreak are making from the Pokémon games and other merchandise I'm pretty sure that if they wanted to they could easily upgrade Gamefreaks Studio and employ more people to make sure a consistent high quality is being met via performance and visuals and still turn out the same amount of games they usually do. But for some reason they dont.
On IGN, it states that "Phil takes full responsibility for Redfall."
And? lol. Again, anyone can say that about anything. It doesn't make it alright at all. At this point, I'm not sure anything will. Pathetic. Get rid of Phil. He's too nice.
@UltimateOtaku91 the problem is that Nintendo and the Pokemon Company don't own GameFreak, it's up to GameFreak to use their own share of the revenue to expand. And since they own a third of Pokemon, no one is going to take away from them the rights to keep developing the main line games.
@UltimateOtaku91
I have just given up with them.
Yes I’m a bit angry and frustrated having been with Xbox since day one.
But to watch a company basically self harm and be so self destructive is a crying shame to what was great brand Xbox.
Those responsible need locking up and the key throwing away. Or just get it over and done with, sell your studios Microsoft and leave the games market.
@UltimateOtaku91 Well, like I said before, I don't think it's a matter of not having the resources. Pokemon is an industry unto itself, and the consistent roll-out of new-gen games is an integral aspect of that. So I think GF is HEAVILY encouraged to stick to certain timelines.
If you mean they should opt for an Ubisoft/Activision approach of massively expanding the development pool to the point where AAA-quality games can be churned out on the regular... well, maybe, but this is easier to say than to do, and who knows if GF's culture would even be compatible with this approach.
Either way, Nintendo would have some say, but I doubt they could unilaterally affect massive structural changes like this. And with sales being the way they are, people are probably just content to leave well enough alone.
@Tharsman Well you would hope Gamefreak would maybe take pride in their work and want to make the best possible game they can even if that means upgrading themselves. Pretty sure they've been using similar assets since the 3DS for certain things (or atleast Sword/Shield were).
Maybe it's down to Nintendo's hardware limitations and Gamefreak are taking the flak for it, I don't know. But what I do know is that I've seen user made Pokémon games/concepts on YouTube that look years ahead of the current Pokemon games.
Hopefully we can get to that stage one day with the actual games.
So still Baffles me to this day how Nintnedo have never acquired Gamefreak or the PLC, all it takes is one massive break up, we've seen it with studios like Bungie going their seperate ways.
Best thing they could do is take it off the store and refund everyone. The longer it stays live in it's current state, the worse Xbox looks. This isn't quite the RRoD fiasco...but it is a really bad look.
So, about Xbox's track record specifically during the Xbox Series X|S generation, here is a list of what Xbox has delivered to XBox Series X|S since it launched:
2020
2020 (remasters/optimizations)
2021
2022
2023
2023 (future)
Some of these are not exclusives, some of them were even PS5 timed exclusives, but the list is actually not terrible, quantity or quality wise.
I would argue Halo Infinite shipped a bit early (should have had at least co-op at launch) but it still was a solid launch, cant really criticize its launch too hard. It was its post-launch update cadence that bleeped it up big time.
Honestly, from this list, the only terrible launch has been Redfall. Some might argue Ghostwire: Tokyo, but that seems to be hit and miss depending on the person.
If we focus on the delivery, and ignore the constant "what is next and why was X delayed?", Xbox has not been sleeping on the job, as tends to be public opinion.
@Dezzy70 I think they just need a massive shake up and create new IP's, I will use playstation as an example, all they were creating were uncharteds, Jak and Daxter, ratchet and clank, God Wars and Killzones and it got to a certain point where people were getting bored of the same games. Then they got those studios to create new IP's to freshen things up.
Naughty dog made TLOU and now look at how big it's got, instead of insomniac creating ratchet and clank non stop they moved onto spiderman and now wolverine and are now considered their best Studio, Guerrilla finally left behind Killzone and created Horizon which sold more copies with its first game than the entire Killzone franchise. Sucker Puck left behind the infamous franchise and came up with Ghoat of Tsushima which is now one of the best games. No one wants to keep playing the same games every gen. I feel the same about Santa Monica, it's time to move on from God of War, as great as the game is I'm bored of seeing Kratos for the 8th time, personally it's a waste of talent to stick to one thing for decades.
Same with Xbox, it's mainly always Halo, Gears, Forza and Fable, they need to come up with new great IP's that show these studios aren't a one trick pony. Let 343i make a new game, let coalition make a new game same with the Fable dev and maybe the forza devs too, and for Microsoft to support them fully and give them the funding needed and market them the same level sony markets their games, a large portions of Sony's game and console sales is down to their marketing.
@UltimateOtaku91
Mario, Link, Samus, Kirby, Marth, Shulk and Pikachu all called and left you very lengthy voice mails.
Also, I'll continue to buy Assassins Creed forever.
I’m taking a break from the comment sections here. Just can’t do it anymore with some of the people here. Have enough negativity in my life as it is.
@Tharsman well maybe I was a bit hasty with the phrase "no one" 😂, but people do get tired of the same games, especially if they don't change things up.
For example with Zelda and Pokémon they are keeping things thresh by going with an open world design. Same happened with Assassins Creed but even then people still moan all the time about it and Far Cry.
@Tharsman I’m sorry but that’s not how this works. Whoever is at the top is responsible. So if there is someone under Phil (like you’re suggesting) who isn’t getting the job done, that falls on Phil. So if he is unable to manage his people to get the job done, he should go.
@SplooshDmg Hi-Fi Rush looks interesting, but I doubt MS execs saw it as something worth expending a significant advertising budget on. I feel like Redfall probably wouldn't have been touted as heavily if they weren't desperate for something exclusive with perceived sales potential to push GP subs with.
Legends: Arceus is neat, btw. Still sort of ugly for a modern game (this IS Game Freak we're talking about), but the framerate, if not locked, is extremely stable, I don't recall running into even a single bug, and it rethinks almost every aspect of the Pokemon RPG formula.
Not a masterpiece, by any means, but a breath of fresh air for the franchise nonetheless.
@UltimateOtaku91 Have you seen Tears of the Kingdom and Xenoblade Chronicles 3? Nintendo's hardware, limiting though it is, is NOT the issue here.
@Tharsman Xbox definitely isn't in the regular habit of publishing bad games. One other factor I think matters is the level of perceived quality of their output. Even if Nintendo missteps more often (which they probably do irrespective of Pokemon tbh), they also have a reputation for developing some of the best games each generation. Ditto with Sony.
Ask the average core gamer to give you a shortlist of the best games ever made, and names like Mario, Zelda, God of War, and The Last of Us are likely to be thrown around a lot. Xbox used to have this with Halo, but they apparently fumbled that ball with Infinite.
It matters less if Nintendo stumbles, because we know generation-defining games will release, alongside a consistent slate of high-quality exclusives each year. The same can't be said for Microsoft. And as long as that's true, the significance of something like Redfall sucking will matter more than something like Mario Tennis being vaguely disappointing at launch.
On the topic of people not wanting the same games over and over, while it is true Nintendo rarely branches out with new IPs, they do significantly experiment within their respective IPs. Arguably moreso in terms of gameplay diversity than Sony does with a hundred different IPs that all also happen to be third-person action-adventure games with crafting systems.
@UltimateOtaku91
Here is one for Phil, put your job where you mouth and hopeless excuses are.
If Starfield doesn’t get 89% or higher on metacritic you leave you job.
Why 89%. Horizon zero dawn, PS4, new ip by an established developer.
Starfield. New ip by established developer.
Give that a try Mr Apologies.
@UltimateOtaku91 Reviewers moan, and people that [imo] never really got hooked to the series whine, but truth is these games keep selling.
Yes, changing things up a bit is important to keep the formula fresh. Gears 5, as far as I understand, changed things up quite a bit (I have not played Gears games) and Halo Infinite campaign also changed things up significantly with its more open...ring approach.
My point is that a company can indeed keep up fan beloved IPs going. You don't have to force a team off Killzone and into a dino-robot open world to "change things up", in fact the only reason to do that is because the last entry in the game was so terribly bad that you decide to veto any proposals at a sequel.
Oh and thanks for reminding me that I am still angry at the fact that I apparently wont ever get a sequel to inFamous. 😤 I genuinely loved Second Son. 😢
@Ralizah
But Horizon and Ghost also added big open world to their cinematic adventures!! Thats revolutionary!
@Ralizah Well maybe Gamefreak need to team up with Monolith soft for their next game then as I agree, xenoblade chronicles 3 was a technical marvel considering how well it performed, considering the size of the map, the amount of enemies on the map, cutscenes and thousands of voiced dialogues lines, and for it to run as well as it did and look better than Pokémon Scarlet/Violet. Plus id wager it had way less of a budget.
Man thinking about it I'd love them to joint make the next pokemon game or spin off.
@SplooshDmg I don’t think either of you guys are disputing that.. I don’t think any one I regularly speak to is. The only one I was pointing that out to was the other person who brought up Nintendo in the first place (not me) like they have no dirty laundry. I’m just saying don’t bring up any of those corps like they are perfect. The triple A industry sucks. They all look the other way if they get money. That’s issue.
@mousieone Oh, absolutely. No corp has a spotless record. There's this really fine line between making money and serving the customer. The corp exists to serve the customer, and we give them the money because we like the product. Pokemon really is a perfect example of just too big to fail, and why it's ultimately awful for the end consumer. Where the product has gone mostly to hell, but the customer just keeps coming back. It's bizarre. All that though, Xbox just has a major problem with trust from the community. This just was not what they needed. They built so much back over the last few years, and I hate to say it, but I think it's all gone again.
Funny, I was literally just watching Charlie play Redfall, exploiting poor AI, running next to enemies and talking to them without them registering him.. and then Phil says their games are judged differently. Yes they are. Because if they were judged as any third party was, there would have been nobody defending this dumpster fire.
I absolutely, truly, believe a lot of the issues stem from the scamdemic and all the abuse it caused with working from home, etc.
But Phil needs to get firm and say: here's the deal, you are game developers, get your behinds back in the office, and get your jobs done right and on time. If you want to work from home, fine, go find a job that will allow you. Fun time is over.
@SplooshDmg Xbox does and I’m willing to talk about how annoyed I am with them. It’s more than gone. They are lower than they were before. Releasing Redfall in this state is an unmitigated disaster. Bethesda needs a much firmer hand than they have had recently.
If this isn’t Xbox wake up call I don’t know what is.
@Tharsman I'm not saying people saying that are wrong, and they could well be right in thinking that. Interestingly elsewhere in the interview he says that they do internal mock reviews and the scores from those reviews were noticeably higher, I wonder if they will be speaking to those internal reviewers to see why they didn't pick up on the issues that others have.
@Ralizah Nintendo arguably is the most inventive of the three when it comes to gameplay. As well as the most diverse in the terms of what they publish. For every Mario Kart game, there is a game like Mario circuit to go with it. I mean Labo? They also publish the widest range of genres.
@UltimateOtaku91 The existing IP's don't even need to be abandoned altogether, they could just be put on hiatus for a while so that need ip's are created and then brought back after a sufficient break. Out of the ip's you listed I would love to play a new Killzone or Infamous now that there hasn't been any for enough time.
@mousieone So you're getting a PS5 when?
@Ralizah "Nintendo's version of the "live service" model, where they take a presumably already complete game and just release the content over the course of a year or so, is hideous.
It arguably contributed to New Horizons being one of the worst Animal Crossing games as well.
And, in general, they're becoming far too comfortable designing games around the inclusion of DLC for my liking.
While I do think Nintendo's output is fantastic overall, there are definitely aspects that I disagree with."
So much this. It's not to excuse MS, but honestly I've had as much of a falling out with Nintendo as I have with XB due to the above. A lot of their games now feel like empty shells with the rest of the game drip fed over time to the point there's no purpose to buy the game in the first 2+ years if you just want to buy a whole game, and ACNH was deplorable that way. They WERE the most inventive, and occasionally they still are, but ever since ACNH most of what Nintendo does feels like by the numbers copy and paste, with gameplay designed around mobile game design minus the paid mtx and built around keeping a continuous twitter feed going.
They have their gems. Kirby's 3D game was amazing, I'm sure zelda and pikmin will be great, but I've got to the point I don't even follow what they're doing, and they used to be my prime platform. I just haven't been super impressed by much of their mobile-esque modern games.
At this point Nintendo has occasional hits and mostly safe, cheap, mobile games for too much money. Xbox tries big ambition and falls on their face more than not but with occasional great indie-sized games, and PS seems to wow the crowds, and I can't seem to stand 90% of their content. Third parties seem to be hitting out out of the park more consistently than any of the first parties, with my own tastes factored in right now. I do love Horizon from Sony but I think that's their only first party franchise I care about at this point assuming they bin Sackboy and ratchet (and they probably will.) Unless they announce something better in June.
@Bleachedsmiles And the weird thing is whether their pushing console or Game Pass Cloud is completely moot because Game Pass Cloud is running on.......Xbox consoles. So the software necessities are identical anyway.
That last segment of the interview is really good I think. It's nothing we don't already talk about and speculate about here anyway, but it's sort of a direct confirmation that they absolutely know what their position is and where they are in console, and a direct statement that they know there's no changing the market share at this point, but that their plan isn't really about that and is about really being the multi-platform platform. Which is fine, because that's what I really buy them for to begin with. But it's good to see the acknowledgement that they're very aware of their position. I wanted a consolidated PC and that's where they seem to be, and I'm totally cool with that.
@mousieone Agreed. Which lowers their review average on Metacritic a lot, since certain types of games just don't review as well as your Zeldas and God of Wars, but I love that they publish games belonging to almost every genre. How many other companies say
Frankly, even Microsoft has Sony beat in the software diversity game. I think people would be a lot more tolerant of their smaller/less mainstream stuff like Grounded and Pentiment if they seemed to have less trouble with their AAA bangers.
@UltimateOtaku91 I doubt it'll happen, but I'd love to see the division of Monolith Soft that helped build the open worlds of BotW and TotK help Game Freak. If only so their open worlds had more of a natural feel to them.
Don't get me wrong: there's a massive improvement on that front from the Wild Areas of Sword/Shield to the environments of Scarlet/Violet. But they could be a lot better as well.
Although without longer dev cycles, I don't know that it matters too much.
@NEStalgia Eh. Of the big three, Nintendo is the only one consistently releasing games I'm excited for. Some of them are misses, but that's going to happen when your published output (both first-party, like Pikmin, and second-party like Pokemon and Kirby) dwarfs that of the competition. Not to mention they've been instrumental in making the Switch a safe haven for classic-style JRPGs and more niche Japanese content in general.
I've never been happier with a platform than I am with the Switch. Even with their issues.
@Dezzy70 Hey, back in January I said Starfield had to be GOTY and nothing less to save 2023.
@Kevw2006 mock reviews are weird. They select a group of people and they have the privilege of playing the game early. Surely that’s going to lead to some bias and they are going to score favourably. Redfall is evidence that that doesn’t work if you ask me.
@NEStalgia I got a PS5. That means it could happen to anyone. It could even be @mousieone.
@Fenbops You're right, they are probably less likely to mark down for a niggly bug they come across, or be so particular about finer details. I've seen enough people say there is a fun game in there if you look behind some of the issues so can see why they might have scored it higher.
@Ralizah IDK, My purchases on Switch have dropped to next to nothing over the past few years. Of course Zelda and Pikmin are big, and uncommonly special games for them. I did buy Splatoon, XC3, and Kirby last year. Last thing before that I guess was Dread and ACNH, which I absolutely hated. Metroid Dread I was very ambivalent about. It was ok, but I think it fell short, I know you and sploosh disagree. I don't think it was worth the price at all, and if I weren't a hopeless Metroid fan from the 80's I wouldn't have bought it I'm sure. I guess that's a better track record than Xbox where it was FH5 and Pentiment and Ghostwire and Psychonauts and that's about it so far. Or PS where it's GoT which I still can't get myself to actually finish, and Horizon and...... really just that (excluding VR which has no actual Sony games short of the Horizon climbing game, but is my favorite thing since 3DS launch.)
That's really not much first party across the board. The whole library is third party everything. Which is normal for most players really, 1st party is vastly overrated on the internet outside Nintendo, but I'm kind of waning in opinion of their games too.
Oh, I forgot Arceus on Switch! I did buy that last year too. I....that's another one....I loved the ideas, I loved the new take on things but.....probably 25% in it just became so redundant I just lost interest. Again, very much mobile design.
@SplooshDmg yeah @mousieone is definitely sounding like a PS5 candidate at this point
@SplooshDmg @NEStalgia and I’m never going to hear the end of it from @UltimateOtaku91. No thanks. He’ll laugh that one to his grave.
But in all honesty. Im not interested in their lineup of games either. Sure some exclusives from third party but God of War does nothing for me. I guess his nice to look at? But my dream was never to run around as a half naked man yelling Boy and avenging my wife. Nor do I get zombies unless they’re cute. Otherwise nope Zombies just aren’t my thing.
@Ralizah absolutely MS has great lineup of smaller and medium level titles. The Marque titles are the issue which even Gears isn’t. And Redfall was never going to be. Let’s be real a vampire looter shooter isn’t that.
My issue is that while they don’t want to stifle creativity someone over there needs to have the bravado to say hey you know this game maybe needs to be scoped down by a lot. Somewhere over there needs to stop over hyping games.
@mousieone I mean, I can't really say I love Sony's 1st party either, but they basically have all the 3rd party support I could need or want. I'm on PC a lot, so sometimes a physical PS5 copy is nice over a digital Steam copy, or a PC port is maybe totally borked. I just like it more for extra options. More options are always good. I do love Ratchet and Clank, though, and Knack II BABY!
@mousieone Just do it.
I promise i won't laugh..... 😏
@SplooshDmg which is where I am at. I want a PC but I don’t exactly have the room. But everything I want to play is on PC. I’m really on the fence about Steam Deck. .
@mousieone I personally love PC. There's def some issues with things like UE on PC right now, but the weeb games are mostly fine, arguably the best place to play most of them. I'm not sold on the SteamDeck. It's nice, but I think the ASUS ROG Ally is going to clobber it.
@SplooshDmg I'm weird with PC. I don't play games on it super often, but I also just sort of... can't imagine being without a gaming PC? It's not like a console for me where it needs to justify its existence.
@NEStalgia I mean, I waited until Metroid Dread was $40 in a sale. I'm not generally one to spend full price on a 10 - 20 hour 2D game. Even one as good as Dread was.
Switch is looking pretty packed me this year so far (granted, I'm not hung up on first party v third party concerns at all). Started with FE Engage, which was quite fun. March had Fatal Frame IV and Paranormasight. April, of course, had Advance Wars, which is always incredibly fun. May has TotK, the game I've been waiting an increasingly large chunk of my life for. June has Rain Code, the spiritual successor to the Danganronpa series. July is Pikmin, of course.
I'm sure Nintendo will have other stuff for the next half of the year, but, honestly, my Switch is so stuffed with unplayed and half-played games now that I think I'm going to semi-retire when it comes to new purchases. At least for a bit. The backlog needs love.
@Ralizah I have my PC, Switch and PS5 all hooked up to the same TV at an enormous desk. So, really the PC is in some weird console-PC hybrid state where I can just hit the HDMI switch and I've shuffled from the PC to the PS5 with ease. So, it's convenient and of course that RTX3080ti is brutal. I end up using the for at least something basically every day, but I really do play all of them. It just kind of depends what I want to play at the moment.
Metroid Dread... chef's kiss
@Ralizah My problem with switch is really the 3rd party stuff I just find it hard to pay more money for worse versions of games than what's on PS or XB when I could just remote play or stream it from a better machine but still have the better copy. Like Trails...I bought 3 and 4 on Switch, started playing 3....visually it looks almost as good as on PS but they effed up the font and it's wretched, but I'm stuck finishing that on Switch since I'm so far in. I bought 4 on switch but then bought it on PS because I don't think I want to live with that text issue for a whole other game. Same for Octopath, Diofield, etc, etc. I just can't get myself to want to pay more for worse version of games on the platform that's least likely to maintain forward compatibility so long as I can rig up remote play solutions.
@mousieone For me the issue with PC is just price. For $2000 you get a machine that might not suck with 80% of games for the next 6-10 months, then you spend another 4 months and $900 trying to remedy that problem. I was tempted so much by Steam deck but right now XB RP + Cloud does a lot of what I need it to do. PS RP picks up the rest of the weeb games. I just....I don't dislike Switch but....I can't even point at the specifics but I just kind of went flat with it at some point. I think it was ACNH honestly. It was my "the emperor has no clothes" moment, though I did buy the OLED after, and Splatoon at least did ensure it got some use and obviously Zelda coming up.
@mousieone But what about the biggest game of all time, Spiderman, where you just keep pressing the trigger to the rhythm like a weird version of Guitar Hero with only one note and button because the game didn't employ physics of any kind?
Yeah, I'm with you. MS can't get a good game that functionally works out the door, and Sony gets functionally great games out the door most of which IMO just aren't very fun to play, they just appeal to the same market that loves popular blockbuster movies, which has never really been me. Technically they're all impressive, it's just that too often they check the fun at the door in the name of being impressive. (I do love Horizon, but it's their one game breaking the mold, really, and probably not coincidentally is the one game that keeps releasing broken, buggy, and poor performance, awaiting months of patches, just like MS and everyone else....)
@UltimateOtaku91 hmmm sure you won’t.
@SplooshDmg not sure if you knew about the Ally and was trying lot to derail this as much as I have lol. I really need a price. There are also a few other devices that don’t get as much attention that are similar that I’m looking at but eh.
Not sure about that now.
@mousieone @SplooshDmg Rumors keep pointing to about $700. Seems a bit steep for a device with sticks that probably end up drifting unless they're using Hall (haven't seen that they are but could be.)
@NEStalgia I don't generally buy third-party games where there's a massive disparity in terms of the experience, like the recent DOOM games. Almost everything on my Switch is either exclusive or feels at home on the platform.
I can't stand streaming. Even Xcloud is a laggy, choppy mess for me. Everywhere, too, not just at home. I'm all aboard with video streaming, but game streaming just sucks.
@SplooshDmg I have an extremely similar setup, except's it a PC, Switch, and PS4 that all feed into the same monitor.
Sony hasn't done a good job of convincing me to upgrade on their end. No themes and no exclusives I care about.
@mousieone Seriously though if you're not interested in Sony's exclusives then wouldn't expect you to get one, just stick to what you're comfortable with, for the jrigs that don't come to xbox you can always get them on the switch.
Would be nice if they actually committed to fixing the myriad of bugs and issues with this game rather say we will do better next time.
@NEStalgia @mousieone I'd probably be down with an Ally for $700. I mean, that's only $150 more than a PSVR2.
@Ralizah Honestly, the PS5 is a pretty take it or leave it thing for me. I mostly just play Genshin Impact on it because I get cheap PS credit at Gamestop every month and that takes a little bit of the sting out of that microtransaction hell I'm so super absorbed in. I did buy Atelier Ryza 3 for PS5 because I had a $50 Best Buy reward that wasn't good for digital content. So, it was PS5 or Switch, and that's what I rolled with. I don't really need one, I'm just dumb and buy stuff.
@SplooshDmg Good thing is that it'll likely eventually improve. Playstation consoles pretty much always do in their latter years. Hopefully they revise it into something a little less unsightly looking.
tbh I might have already considered getting one to fully experience Horizon Forbidden West if they weren't porting their games to PC. As it stands, though, you just know a HFW Complete Edition is coming to Steam in a year or two.
I liked what I played of Genshin (just enough so I could unlock Aloy during her availability window), but I feel like, as good as it is, I'm only experiencing half a game, since I refuse on principle to feed money into the gacha machine. That keeps me from fully investing myself into playing it. Same reason I haven't touched their new sci-fi RPG, either.
@SplooshDmg @NEStalgia aren’t there two models and the other one is 599?
@UltimateOtaku91 Well it’s not like I’ve never owned Playstation. I have a Vita. Not exactly something people purchase if they hate a brand. I’m not anti-Sony or some stupid thing. I just don’t see a compelling reason to get more than what I have current. Now if Sony wants to release a slim model at 399, and their library somehow gets something I have to have sure. But at the moment my Switch/Xbox gets anything I care about KH4 might break that but who knows.
@Ralizah Genshin isn’t even done either. Like the main story plot is no wheee near close to being complete. I don’t want to play something that has no ending ever
@Ralizah Genshin is a weird beast. I pay the $5 a month for the whole Blessing of Welkin Moon thing and get the 90 primo gems each day. Then I'll do the battle pass every 6 weeks or so. By the time I get my cheap credit from Gamestop, I pay like $70 a year out of pocket, and I'm good with that. I've never ever bought currency outright just to feed into the slots. I do however have quite a few desirable banner characters. I think with as much time and enjoyment as I get out of it, it's worth more than what I ultimately pay them. Not really any different to me than paying for an FFXIV sub or something.
@Ralizah Yeah, I mean if that was my experience i wouldn't be into it, but for me streaming is pretty flawless. A hiccup here and there, but generally works well. Just comes down to where the datacenter is for you of course, and that'll improve over time.
Though I'm MOSTLY doing remote play right now, really because of suspend/QR being essential to me and cloud not having that (yet.)
@mousieone The lower spec one is supposedly $599. I think the extra hundred for the higher one seems like a no brainer, though. If the leaked price is accurate, anyway.
@mousieone I did say that and its a fact. Sony and Nintendo do not release broken games like Redfall and you brought up Pokemon which has been pointed out is NOT a Nintendo 1st party game. It's clear MS has a mgmt problem and Phil admitted as much. Maybe he needs help or Xbox needs some kind of restructuring.
"There's games that are in development when we acquire a studio, and there's things that are either really early in development or not even conceived yet, and I think we need to improve on engaging in games that are midway through production when they become part of Xbox."
If Redfall was midway through development and Starfield was in its early stages, with both being hit by delays, how is a much larger and detailed game going to release a mere 4 months later? What they show next month better be an hour of uninterrupted and flawless Starfield gameplay. That’s the only way I’ll believe it will be ready to launch in September.
@SplooshDmg Technically better than an MMO sub in some ways, since you get to keep your gacha loot. Whereas, if you pay for an MMO sub and don't use it, that's just wasted money.
I'm a thoroughly single-player gamer, but even if I wasn't, the notion of paying a sub for a game I bought offends my sensibilities.
@mousieone Genshin won't be finished for a loooooong time, assuming the developer sticks with it (but why wouldn't they? It's a veritable gold mine). I'm not too worried about that aspect, tbh. It's the sort of game you'd play off and on over years.
@Ralizah Yup, that is actually exactly what I tell myself. I pay some money and I'm not buying time that is burning up, I'm just paying a little to get the full experience and build my teams faster. Which is fine, because they drop tons of new content all the time. I really don't care to pay them for the work. I'm basically a single player only as well, which partly why Genshin appeals to me as much as it does. I've played over 500 hours and never co-op'd even once. Lol. I get to just do my quests, collect my loot, and enjoy the silence of the realm. I truly, truly love it.
I loved the transparency of the interview if I'm being honest.
@Tharsman How do you know it's not Phil ?
@SplooshDmg I don’t know I’m kind of in a rock and hard place right now with other none gaming things. And
@Ralizah yeah that’s why I can’t play it ._. I need my fix now.
@mousieone So, you use the rock to smash the hard place, then kick back and play video games.
@Dezzy70 He has other people under him doing that. Xbox people, Zenimax people, Bethesda people. He is essentially the public face of Xbox, like a CEO. Yes, he and his people should butt in more and make apparent to all studios what channels are open for help.
Starfield, Forza, Perfect Dark, and Fable are far more high profile than Redfall. Accordingly, I'm sure those projects command far more attention internally. Redfall was far along at the time of acquisition. They probably though it was in good hands and the team did not fire a signal flare early enough.
@SplooshDmg well the girl that hit my car and didn’t have a license is claiming I hit her and my insurance say unless the police report magically says she’s at fault I’m out a grand.
@mousieone Okay, what you do is this... You grow a mustache and change your name... Then move across the Mexican border. Then kick back and play video games.
I don't understand how you send $7B and just say see you at launch. Clearly they plan aquiring more studios.... maybe an official onboarding plan... event a power point presentation.... could be helpful. Maybe review what the studios are working on when acquired and tell them where you could help and how? You know...take ownership of what you purchased. Like i said in a different post... don't be up their asses.... just play with the Cornhole so they know your there. It's 2023 Phil....butt stuff is totally okay.
Well ya think?
@SplooshDmg won’t work. I can’t grows mustache and it might look a little weird with my other “assets”.
@mousieone Luckily you're headed for Mexico! You just gotta put the senor in senorita!
@SplooshDmg that won’t be obvious at all. Nope bearded ladies are perfectly normal on this day and age.
@mousieone Now you're getting it! The insurance adjuster will never find you! :3
@SplooshDmg great but she hit me. I want my car fixed :c
@mousieone Luckily for your, there's a body shop in Mexico. Take advantage of the conversion rate!
@UltimateOtaku91 Game freak and Nintendo are separate companies but they have the third Pokémon company that is the partnership and why Pokémon is bound to Nintendo.
@SplooshDmg wow you have all my problems solved.
Just watched the interview. Some concerning things were said, like this:
"...if you build great games everything would just turn around. That is just not true..."
Among other similar quotes.
Kind of sounds like Phil is discouraged and is giving up.
Building great games most definitely will help things turn around. Games like Halo 5 and Redfall aren't going to help you.
Games like The Last of Us, God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, etc. are what have helped Sony turn it around after the PS3 disappointment.
Games like Zelda, Mario Odyssey, etc. are what have helped Nintendo turn it around after the WiiU disappointment.
Xbox needs great games to help them turn it around. Maybe Starfield can be the start of that, then Xbox can build off of that.
Xbox is getting squashed by Sony and needs to push their brand to the next level.
@theduckofdeath
Well as always we shall see with those other games.
Forza will be top tier AAA as turn 10 and playground games are magical. So that is good maybe you can leave them studios and also the coalition to get on.
But you can’t manage every studio and game the same. I don’t manage my older wiser staff the same as I manage a new graduate straight out of university. That’s the strength of being a good manager and training and development plans for the right circumstances etc.
@armondo36 “ there will need to be a MAJOR restructuring, possibly starting with Phil himself.”
Wasn’t there already a major restructuring? The moment he came into head of Xbox they did major restructuring allowing him more control over the brand, and placing him directing under Microsoft CEO. This is what has allowed them do so many of these purchases since they now had direct access to Microsoft bank account and was limited on spendings budget like before.
@Sakai “ Microsofts infamous hands off approach seems to work with some developers, and not with others.”
You know what funny about this. We yelled at Microsoft for generations that they need to be hands off instead beating developers with a stick like they did during Xbox and Xbox 360 generation. Now they’re hands off and letting the developers create what they want to create. It not work, so we’re back to beating developers with a stick. It almost like developers can’t be left up to their own devices and need to be micro managed.
@AverageGamer what does that have to do with now? If you hire someone and you realize it hasn't worked out, you hire someone else or you tear it all down. That's where they are if Starfield and Forza don't deliver.
WOW iv worn out my scroll wheel just to get to here good job i brought food.
Well lessons are not being learnt here for me hands off hands on it matters not to my wages this is my team i want a winner 🥇 the end.
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