What's All This About A Cheaper, Ad-Filled Version Of Xbox Game Pass?

If you can't afford Gamepass then surely you can't afford to be gaming.

If anything Gold needs to go as it serves no purpose these days, the big multiplayer games are generally f2p so don't even need it and PC Xbox doesn't have it at all

Not interested in adds no matter how cheap as would ruin the experience. Wouldn't even be worth it if you can't access first party games for 6 months or the full catalogue.

They should deffo get rid of gold and make online free we already pay for internet and PC players are not forced to pay extra each month. It's been poor for years and made even worse removing 360 games and reducing the amount of games they give out.

I would never downgrade to an ad version but I support the option for other people who are hesitant about adding another monthly subscription to their budget.

I recently went through and canceled a bunch of subs and have gotten down to just gamepass ultimate and Amazon prime. It's surprising how much those subs add up to over a full year.

I wonder if it will affect the multiplayer experience when ad based subs play with non ad based subs. Do I have to wait while they watch a few ads?

@themightyant I am glad you mentioned 5 ad’s on the Home Screen, has there been any info since MS last commented on they heard the feedback that fan’s want to see more of their themes and have a less cluttered Home Screen for the upcoming 2023 home UI screen update? I for one love the Xbox UI, it’s so close, but if they could clean up that Home Screen and tweak a few other pages i think it has everything it needs.

No thanks, I’m happy with GPU - but it may suit some.

Btw, does anyone know happened to Ubisoft +? It must be 12 months since Ubisoft and Microsoft said it was coming to Xbox “soon”.

@Feffster I think Ubisoft+ on consoles might have been cancelled at this point. Most of the games have been made available on Game Pass and PS+ so don't see the point in it.

@Cyberpsycho - thanks, I thought it had all gone a bit quiet.

Definitely not interested in this tier but I am not the target audience for this type of Subscription model. It may suit those who are more 'casual' gamers and/or those on a tighter budget. In some parts of the world, that can be a lot of money to some families.

If it helps some get into gaming, it can't be a bad thing - its not as if they are contemplating putting Ads into GPU, giving us 'no choice'. Its about opening up a 'lower' tier than they already offer to encourage more into their Subscription Service. Once in, they can decide whether to stick, quit or 'upgrade' - whichever suits their needs/budget.

As I said, its not for 'me', but I have no objection to them offering more choice...

Microsoft seems to be making ads it's main priority moving forward, i have no doubt they're working on this.

Microsoft you are slowly ruining Xbox
Maybe focus on some big AAA releases and advertising and PR, stream lining you GUI, have a look at Switch and PS5 now they are simple GUI and dam fast.
Sorting out you latest update that messed with HDMI CEC.
You are a big rich powerful company I don’t get you and don’t understand you anymore like I did in the Xbox360 days and even the second half of the Xbox one days.
You are also trying to buy your way in to game studios and development.
The only use you have is keeping Sony and Nintendo in line and on their toes, I will give you that.

To be honest, the best bit about gamepass ultimate is the wide variety of indies. If I didn't have access to them would I subscribe to this, hard no.

Considering vast majority games are quality of Nintendo games from the 80s jumping over lava pits. I'd say $3 a month fair and reasonable price point.

@themightyant i can see your point for sure and a new UI wouldn’t have hurt my feelings either. But i like the foundation of this one, just think it’s too cluttered, forcing ad’s and GP to much and could use some love on the Achievements tab also. To start give that page 4K pics instead of 1080P. I guess what i am saying is it all could use some updating and tweaks. But the foundation of it isn’t bad. I am sure they will show something off in early 2023 to remind everyone it’s still coming. But the first look at it was honestly worse. My PS5 UI isn’t all that much more exciting to me. It needs lots of improvements and tweaks also. Somehow nintendo gets the Ui right.

Why does the author think this is unlikely?

Personally I think it makes sense as GamePass subs have slowed down, they could try and reach a new audience with this cheaper tier and they would get ad revenue.

@carlos82 "you can't afford Gamepass then surely you can't afford to be gaming."
The worst take I could imagine.

sounds like a horrible idea and a bad road to start down

@PcTV Why? If I were in a position where I didn't feel I could afford the £10 per month for a gaming subscription, I seriously doubt I'd be buying a £250 or £450 games console and paying for sufficient Internet access to take advantage of such a subscription.

personally yes i would be fine with it one AD and 6 month wait for 1st party games for a cheaper price more choice doesn't mean they stop the current options

@Dezzy70 personally i like the xbox UI and think its better than PS5 UI but not as good as PS4 UI. it does themes, groups on the home screen, background files moving , clubs, discord etc. that doesnt even cover things the console can do like Dolby vision, VRR 20-120hz, Dolby atmos.

all things PlayStation doesnt do

Netflix are doing it , Disney plus are about to do it ,it makes sense Microsoft would at some point ,I won't b paying by ads but I can see how some low income families could benefit from this

@themightyant - thanks 👍

As a replacement for Gold? sure but alongside gold? nah

@trev666
Yes it does do Dolby vision and Dolby atmos in game I have a series x you really think that makes a difference, no it doesn’t. I have a top end set up and Dolby Atmos is ok but not really any different to Dolby DTS when gaming.
As for Dolby Vision gaming it is a joke go see HDTV TEST who under took series x Dolby Vision gaming verses HDR gaming. You are better off with HDR and dynamic tone mapping on, on my LG C2 really.

See you have fallen like I did initially for all the Xbox buzz words we got Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision, it really is nothing special just Microsoft shouting about nothing really.

PS5 VRR is slightly inferior 48hz to 120hz.
If you gaming at 60hz like we should on our new generation consoles that is absolutely fine.
I run all game series x or PS5 at 60hz.
60hz is far superior and smoother graphical, especially in movement. 30hz is a thing of the past.

Please don’t try to out do my geeky technical side I’m an AV enthusiast for decades. Don’t be fooled by Xbox words of tech.

Finally let’s be honest what a two year disgrace the Xbox series has been. Give me top end AAA games any day. Like HFW and GOWR etc.

Gamepass is a waste of money unless you like indie and playing old games or those AA games.

Where’s Xbox top three AAA supposed to be releasing before end of June 2023 as per your mighty Phil says. Where’s the new gameplay and hype and release dates.
Redfall will be go but no AAA
Forza will be AAA but track racing niche.
Starfield won’t be top end AAA it’s running on an ancient engine to start with, most saw that in the gameplay we saw at the showcase. Jack of all trades game master in none.

That's an interesting option, and it's funny after all the talk of prices increasing on GP, they're exploring low-cost alternatives instead. But keep in mind this is a Spanish language only survey, which implies it might be aimed at Latin America only, and also keep in mind they did a similar survey regarding if you'd like Dual Sense features on the Xbox controllers, and nothing ever came of that survey, it was just market research that didn't go anywhere (yet.)

Viewed from another angle, this is a massive price decrease with a large feature increase for Gold, if nothing else. The ads wouldn't interfere in Gold I'd think, so for Gold-only subscribers, this means 2.99 for Gold and a Game Pass you can ignore. But I don't think it'll really come to market, at least not outside certain market territories.

The only thing I don't get is that this service seems like it would be more ideally coupled with streaming. Buy a new Samsung TV and get a booklet in the box that says "for just 2.99 a month you can play the biggest games on your new TV with ads!" It seems a little less sensible to market it as the version without any streaming at all toward people that already bought a multi-hundred dollar console. Though no question it'll be aimed at XSS buyers, not XSX buyers.

@Cyberpsycho Remember, though, that Sony's Plus Extra service doesn't even include first party after 6 months...we don't know how long, maybe a year, maybe more, and costs a lot more than this (but notably less than normal GP.) So that's not necessarily a deal breaker for a lot of people that might be interested in a cheap sub and don't mind a 6 month wait which is still sooner than next competitor for less.

But.....ads......

@Somebody If I were to guess, in a multiplayer game, ads would run at startup, or when leaving a lobby and joining a new one, not between matches or in a long co-op session.

@themightyant Personally, the search on the top right is my most used feature on the system these days. I just noticed it there one day, and that cut out the endless searching for games in lists. It mostly solved all other navigation issues by just sticking the PC/mobile first line of defense on the desktop. No more sorting the hundreds of games, no more scrolling through alphabetized lists...just search for it like a PC/phone, and there it is. Bigger issue is the store still never makes clear if you own a game or not, which is a problem when you have a big backlog. Especially where games have various bundles and editions.

@Dezzy70 I think right now before they do get all their big titles out and switch strategy, their focus is on bridging the "enthusiast gamer" niche with "where most gaming actually is." Most gaming is on free/cheap mobile service stuff. Most gaming is on iPhones. I don't think they're going "full mobile" but I think they're trying to slide the "mainstream" to meet in the middle. To be fair, that's a much bigger, smarter business. What percentage of the world is into "premium" gaming (high end PC, XSX, PS5, etc gaming.) Clash of Clans makes more money than all your favorite AAA games COMBINED, and is played by more people by a factor of 100. It's not for us, but it makes sense they're putting a focus on that.

Heck, if the economy goes the way it looks like it will go over the next year we may all be falling over ourselves to scrape up 2.99 to buy ad supported GP....

@Dezzy70 with your lg c2 you should use HGiG and not dynamic tone mapping for HDR content on Series X. This is confirmed by HDTV test and using dynamic tone mapping leads to an inaccurate picture. I have the same 65inch tv

@NEStalgia
Yes agree it is amazing how much those mobile games and others a like make money wise.
Mobile phone gaming is big because everyone has a mobile phone. Sitting there playing Candy Crush etc.
If Microsoft go that route and only make what I call not big AAA games and their things is gamepass, with indie, old games, AA and the odd game that is something like AAA but not as good then me and Xbox will be over as it’s not my thing.

Shame as in the 360 days their AAA ip was fantastic and top end. And it will be such a waste of what Xbox was capable of and all those amazing ip that could make sensational AAA new generation games in the right developers and companies hands.

@Sakai
I don’t use HGIG on my series x or PS5.
Most games are not designed for it anyway.
I find the picture is not as punchy as with HDR.
I do flick sometimes between the two on certain games but end up preferring HDR for both series x and PS5 on my LG C2.
But I do understand what you mean about HGIG being more natural.

@Dezzy70 I use HGiG on series x and ps5. Dynamic tone mapping makes everything inaccurate as the TV is adjusting the hdr a second time. I really would recommend HGiG and a properly adjusted hdr slider. 0nits for black and 1000nits for white is what our TV should be I believe. Great TV by the way hope you are enjoying it!

@Sakai
I do give it a try sometimes but yes with HDR dynamic tone mapping you are double dipping in processing HDR.
The LG C2 for me is a god of TVs simple as that.

@Sakai
Out of interest and for my learning.
On the series x why don’t you use Dolby Vision?
I know you can’t adjust much and HGIG is off as Dolby Vision locks most things etc.

@Sakai
Also out of interest do you find the series x produces a slightly more sharp and very clear and clean picture than even the best PS5 games say HFW or GOWR.
I’m believing this due to series x having more native 4K or nearer to native 4K than most PS5 games which use a lot of clever temporal tricks and effects? What do you think.

@Dezzy70 resolution is a factor for sure. But also a problem with the ps5 is the hdmi ports. They support lower bandwidth than the series x. When playing 4k at 120hz, the ps5 will drop to 4.2.2 subsampling, whereas the series x does not. If you click the green button on TV remote a few times quickly when playing a game, it will bring up the picture details including hdmi bandwidth, so you can see the consoles display different.

I use dolby vision sometimes, but on games not mastered for it, it can lead to a loss of detail in bright areas. A bit like dynamic tone mapping on a TV. But some games do actually look better in Dolby Vision, but some look worse. When using dolby vision HGiG and dynamic tone mapping are not available, as dolby vision is its own dynamic tone mapping that can be adjusted on a.per frame basis. It's why movies look great in it

I just finished up Forbidden West at the weekend, the Hdr was nice using HGiG and I played in the 40fps/120hz mode.

@Sakai
Yes I know about the green button trick 😂
Did you know in GOWR on performance on 120hz you only get 1080p. You have to active 1440p which is the native resolution on the PS5 for that mode first to actually get the 1440p.
Then the console seems to have trouble coming back out of 1440p to another resolution after playing GOWR.
So I have turned off 1440p on the PS5.

@Sakai
Also the thing with say GOWR and PS5 120hz mode on performance it only max out at about 80hz only 20hz above the usual 60hz and really drops the resolution right down.

That is what I also meant by PS5 tricks and far from native 4K compared to most series x games.

@Dezzy70 I'm pretty happy with my ps5, my main issue is the audio support. I have a 7.2.2 atmos home theater system, and I'm stuck using uncompressed pcm 7.1 surround sound as they still do not support 3d audio for home theater after 2 years, only with TV speakers and headphones.

I'm picking up GoW in the new year sometime. How did you find it? Good HDR implementation? I would not want to play in performance mode without vrr, that's for sure!

@Sakai
I’m playing GOWR as I type this.
It’s very very good if your like GOW games.
Lots of side missions that are good as well and lots of extra exploration of you want to away from the main story. It got 94 meta on the reviews, when you have been playing for a while you know why. Some of the bosses are phenomenal to look at and fight.

This is what I want Microsoft to bring to Xbox with their ip old and new, but alas, my jaw would drop if Microsoft got close to say GOWR or HFW is terms of big AAA all round and production values.
So far my 12tflop superior console is going to waste from Xbox home studios. Such a shame all that power.

@Dezzy70 I liked the old god of war games and 2018. Looking forward to Ragnarok, but wanted to finish a bit of the backlog first. Hit the Platinum for Forbidden West last nite. I'm hyped for a few microsoft games, nintendo games and sony games personally, but everyone has different tastes. Hopefully microsoft release some stuff more to your liking soon.

Does that mean we will get a discount then since the version we have now is already ad filled?

@themightyant sounds more like this tier would be YouTube levels of ads. At least an ad before but while not mentioned, I wonder if ads would interrupt the game

While I've always supported the notion of removing the ad tiles from the home screen, the nightmare scenario I just envisioned made me so physically sick that I'm almost grateful that it's only ad tiles for now 😂

@Sakai
Still exploring HFW not finished it yet.
Looking forward to see what they do with the dlc in April as PS5 only.
Xbox had loads for me in the 360 days was my main console really back then.
Xbox one was ok, let’s hope they can do some triple AAA goodness for 2023.
But I’m not sure that is really the direction they want to go in or their studio micro management is terrible, one of the two. Only time will tell.

Not at all surprising it is the 'netflix of gaming' & they've just done it 😂

@Dezzy70 with Final Fantasy 16, Zelda and Starfield all out next year. Hopefully it's going to be a good year for gaming no matter which console you play

@Sakai
Well I know PS5 and NINTENDO with BOTW2
Won’t let me down.
The other company time will tell, as you can tell I’m more than a little disappointed in Microsoft’s management and direction of Xbox at the moment.
Next year will be make or break for me and them.

@Dezzy70 ive been a big fan of Bethesda rpgs since Morrowind, but I can appreciate you may not feel the same.

could you imagine the response if this was Sony?

but because its MS its ok....

Ads should be kept away from gaming.

too many young children game. they should be kept away from it.

@NEStalgia it's funny after all the talk of prices increasing on GP, they're exploring low-cost alternatives instead not necessarily could be that the current gamepass ultimate price will increase & this ad based tier would become the cheaper option by being the current price of gamepass ultimate

@Sakai
Really enjoyed Skyrim at the time of release on the 360 for sure.
I like exploring games with good adventure, discovery and action combat.
So if Starfield releases 😂 and delivers it should be very good for me.

@Dezzy70 I don't think MS is getting out of AAA gaming. They certainly would not have bought Zenimax, Obsidian, etc if they were. I'd say Activision...but seriously, what does Acti make that's AAA? Don't say auto-aim CoD.

But I do think reality is AAA is niche, and in a lot of ways increasingly so relative to the growth and popularity of every OTHER kind of gaming, as far as gaming goes AAA just isn't mainstream, and the popularity of TV/movies based on AAA games compared to AAA games themselves really indicates how tiny a niche it is compared to the mainstream market, and how expensive that niche is to cater to. So it makes sense it won't be the mainstream focus of a platform or the marketing anymore, even if it still exists as a Halo halo product to showcase the platform.

I think gaming in general is just starting to realize the excessive costs and potential ROI just aren't lining up with spending SO much on production values outside a handful of industry titles that act as flagships. Not unless it's a monetized service, anyway, which is a whole other problem.

Bethesda's history can speak for itself well enough though. If you like what Bethesda does, I'm sure you'll like Starfield a lot. If you don't like what Bethesda does....you probably don't need a demo to know what you think of it

@Would_you_kindly Certainly possible, and I do expect prices will go up at some point, though if it follows in line with other subs, we're talking a 1-3 dollar increase probably. And GP is already more expensive than Plus Premium, so there's a competition ceiling in place already. But the ad tier probably would not be $15 a month. Nobody would pay that. It's very clearly targeting a very ultra-budget consumer, possibly only in markets where piracy is the primary way most normal games are obtained....

It’s not for be but I’m all for it existing. It could appeal to some people.

@NEStalgia
If Microsoft can do what they did with Xbox Halo in terms of Halo Infinite that company are capable of anything and any mess up or surprise in the wrong direction for me.

@Dezzy70 343i is a special snowflake. I wouldn't judge any other MS studio based on what they've done (or not done.) Don't get me wrong, I'm sure MS management etc played a role in that. But 343 is an incompetent studio comprised of awkward stand-in filler staff from day one, designed around rapidly filling a Bungie sized hole, and has failed to release anything competently literally ever. If 343 released something competent, THEN I was be amazed that something is very wrong.

Bethesda is a known quantity, they've never really delivered less than what is expected of them in their history going back to DOS, though their quality level in terms of bugs has continuously become worse as the games get more complex. FO76 was a mess, but it was Phil they turned to for advice on how to make it right, and eventually they did, if you ask the players (I never went back, but some people did... ) I just think it's not helpful to judge other studios on the build-in incompetence at 343, and not really fair to judge even MS as a publisher on how badly 343 can blow a budget and come up with nothing.

I'm not saying Bethesda is going to blow you away with the kind of production value-based experience you're looking for, in fact I would bet money that they won't because that's not the kind of game Bethesda makes, or has ever made. But I trust Bethesda to be Bethesda. And I trust 343i to be 343i..... The only other company I know of that can swing and miss as consistently as 343i is Game Freak. But they manage to make more money than Call of Duty even with a singe platform game that crashes and stutters on its own hardware....

@NEStalgia
Still Microsoft’s fault really about 343i.
Yes the only really proven Xbox studios for me are of course.
Playground Games
Turn 10
Coalition
And also Arkane to a point.
I may have left one or two out, old brain.

Let’s just see what the others do old and new studios and what they deliver. I’m happy to be giving them 2023 to see what they deliver.

The reason I think Sony get the studios high production values apart from the normal talent and management stuff, is they often only focus them on a very narrow developmental path.

For example, GOWR or HFW, PS4 and PS5 only
No PC or cloud on many devices as well as a series s and x, which all together must drive the development team nuts. No couch or on line co op. No multiplayer at this stage.

So producing say a HFW and GOWR in a very good time with very high production values is so tightly streamed in one direction and focused.

I’m not sure Microsoft want to or wish to go in this direction and enclose a game development in that tight focused space design and tight device design.

@Dezzy70 So, basically every studio except 343i, excluding newly bought ones which haven't even released anything with MS yet, which sounds about right...

The big thing with the other studios is these are veteran studios with veteran talent. Todd's been doing this since, what the 90's? 80s? Arkane's still the spinoff of Looking Glass, Obsidian's still Feargus, inExile is still Brian, etc. They're proven studios with original proven talent. 343....just........isn't.... I don't disagree MS bears some fault with 343, especially after 2.5 prior failures, but it's still crazy to judge a whole publisher by one consistently sucky studio that wasn't even an original creative studio but a design by committee group to replace the real studio that left.

You're right about PS studios' focus on one CONSOLE, that's an asset as far as the console games go, but a liability as they're starting to move toward multiplat themselves. As far as MS's studios, I think for MOST of them, especially the recent acquisitions, PC is the lead platform, full stop. Thats' what Xbox always had going for it, it's the PC experience brought to console. And the whole point of the platform was supposed to be Windows dev tools brought to console. It hasn't always worked out that way, but when talking PC vs console, most of the MS studios have in common a PC-focused history, so I think you'll find they're PC-focused. Certainly that's true of Bethesda, inExile, Obsidian, Double FIne, Blizzard if they get it, Arkane.... less so for Coalition, T10, Playground. IF the Xbox dev tools fulfil their promise, the goal is to take those PC games and make them easy to put on console. Whether it works that way or not, I couldn't say. I'd say it must be partly true at least with the amount of Japanese games that have been coming. I'm guessing they're taking their PC builds and mostly easily bringing it to console.

Cloud is a non-issue, it's literally a server version of the console hardware, so it's just the normal console in terms of game development (more or less, I'm sure. )

Sony certainly has couch and online coop in a lot of games though . Well, they did on PS3, they cut out some of that in the PS4 era, but they seem bent on changing that, now there's a Horizon multiplayer spinoff in the works, everything is online! Uncharted 2 was great with the coop. I'd say HFW and GOWR do put a lot into production values and tight direction, but I think there's argument to be made that that's also maybe a weak link of their designs. It appeals to a certain demographic of game player.

What I find interesting and commented on a Push article the other day was about their push to make movies out of their games. The focus of PS games for the past gen has been bridging film and games into a singular medium for a sort of hybrid customer. Everyone kept pointing out that it's a much bigger market of people who just want to watch movies. Which makes me wonder what the point is of spending $150+ million to make a game that's like an interactive movie, when you could spend $80 million to just make the move and have a lot more customers to tell the same story to, and then make a cheaper game that's better as just a game without trying to look cinematic? It has a niche, but is it a worthwhile niche? We'll see. Sony didn't start doing that until PS4 after TLOU turned out to be such a sales hit for them. They went with "don't change horses in mid-stream" as their strategy. But the costs kept going up. And that's not really what their games used to be all about prior to then. Is that their direction? Or was that just a phase they were going through?

Personally, I prefer Bethesda's idea of what a huge video game can be to a lot of what Sony does, and it's telling that my favorite modern Sony series is Horizon.....which really leans away from the "movie" thing and leans far more into a big expansive game. But....I know the movie thing has its fans. PS4 is certainly Sony's pillar right now, but I'm still a bigger fan of Kutaragi's PS from PS1-PS3 & PSV.....but I'm also a big classic PC gamer, so Obsidian, Blizzard, and Bethesda are squarely in my wheelhouse.

@NEStalgia
Yes Sony games do follow a certain route.
Uncharted, last of us and GOWR for example less so HFW.
But those built up over the years have massive critical acclaim and propelled Sony into the leader they are today in that field and have millions of followers. So it’s something they are known for.
Their thing.

Nintendo they are known for what they are known for, Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, household names now a days.

So with Gamepass xbox are trying to make their thing and get their own following etc.

The thing they need to learn from the other 2 greatness comes from exceptional games it’s been written for decades in gaming.

Being honest I find it disappointing in a company of Microsoft’s size that they are trying to buy it not develop it with the Bethesda purchase and now Activision.
I know Sony and Nintendo buy company’s but they normal already have very strong development ties with them and it’s a smaller scale.
Microsoft are just trying to buy themselves into a bigger share of the gaming market that’s all.
What matters for me is what they do with all these studios and what they release games wise.

The gap on just consoles is growing between both Xbox and Sony and also Switch. Because of the games mainly. Though Xbox is doing well for what they are at the minute.

@Dezzy70 It's definitely become their thing. Though they were number one before that thing until they misstepped with PS3. Do they need that thing to be number 1? I'm not sure they do. I think they're flushing out what was in the pipeline during that era but will back away from it. They'll still make some, but I think it'll mostly be games that are guaranteed to sell huge, marvel etc, and they'll seek more profitable ventures overall. Too many people think those games are what made PS4 a hit but in reality Nintendo and Xbox not existing made it a hit, those games just secured their image more. But Jimmy is a profit focused guy. He's publicly lamented the cost of those games a few times. I think he's looking at cod and gtao and smells where the money is. And it's not in horizon and ghost.

As for MS what were they going to do if not buying it? Sony had a 25 years head start, Nintendo had 35. Microsoft should have been only 5 years behind Sony but Uncle Donny was drunk and sold the store so 15 years of experience went down the drain. They could either buy it, or build it over 20 years. If 343i we're your best hope for a 20 year learning process, you'd buy Activision too . Remember they were set to just close the games division and Phil talked them into keeping it but saying they had to go all in on it. I don't think they'd have waited decades of slowly building a new Santa Monica studio being a joke the whole time. Yeah it's not the way anyone wanted it, but all the good stuff they built before, they'd lost. Playground, t10, and epic were their remaining Sony style second parties. They bought the first 2, Sony style, but the third is out of reach. And presents an actual trust issue for engine tech.

In a lot of ways though I think looking at Xbox directly as a PlayStation competitor is missing the real strategy. I don't think they're looking to Sony so much and trying to recreate their console market. I think they're looking at Steam and trying to recreate theirs. Xbox is about PC gaming, plus a premade efficient PC box to play games on. In a lot of ways buying big companies is the most Sony direct competitive thing they do. But I don't necessarily think they're buying IP instead of building it, they're buying competent developers. And all of them have been devs that were looking to be bought. People miss that I think. People picture MS walking in with a briefcase of money saying "how much extra for your chair?". In reality these were all distressed devs looking for a buyer, and MS happened to have a lot of money and a big need to skip the line and get some studios and they happened to already work well together

the PlayStation fanboyisum on the pure xbox comments sections is becoming increasingly tedious and annoying

@NEStalgia
I definitely think maybe Microsoft’s plans are bigger definitely. Like you said they nearly closed the gaming division, which in its self to me was and is worrying. But guess like you said they are going all out and it seems they most definitely are.

Correct those studios did want to be bought, so why not Microsoft that is a true point. As for competition from say Sony and Nintendo, I see that a bit different, to me they are all definitely competing with each other it’s the same market currently with some differences.

But they all sell a game console and make games to play on them at the bottom line. They all go to a lot of trouble to make the consoles and the games and all want you on board in their eco system spending money on their devices etc, be that hardware, software and online content etc.

Anyway not that Xbox say they are counting but they just sold over the 20 million series console mark, so congrats there.

Would like to know the series s to x ratio and also the game pass ratio across all devices.

gold for $3 a month? There would be a lot who would jump on that if its all they cared about.

Interesting. With a lot of people feeling the pinch things like entertainment subscriptions are being looked at now.

Netflix, seemingly to their surprise, were caught off-guard when they had a big loss of subscribers, and Microsoft would be stupid to count on their position being rock solid over the next couple years.

We're going from a period of massive entertainment spending into global recession. Of course they're going to look at more affordable options for customers.

Would I subscribe? It'd depend heavily on the specific details, price, and what games are available, but I'd definitely consider it.

I did a survey from Microsoft months ago asking about this. I selected that I would have no interest in an ad version.

No more ads anywhere!!! Ads are overwhelming society. The only time there should be ads is if the service or item is free and we agree to it. No increasing ads over time and no slowly introducing ads. I have been complaining about this since the first ads on cable TV, not counting commercials about other shows on the channel. If I'm paying for a service then I'm not going to watch ads period. I will not be solicited to on services or goods I paid for. Ads are supposed to be to pay for free services or goods, like broadcast TV. I've heard the cable companies try to justify their commercials by saying that when you pay for cable TV you are just paying for the pipe to get it to you just like you would for the internet. If that was the case why do you have to pay for different channel packages? Why does it cost so much more than the internet, it's coming down the same pipe and it's the same technology nowadays, it's just zeros and ones going to a box. I understand the premium channels being separate but they don't have ads at all and that's how it should be. I'm still pissed off about the few ads on my Xbox dashboard. When I watch a TV show on a service that I pay for monthly, I time a 30 minute show and it's 18 minutes commercials and 12 minutes show, that's when I have a problem. I could go on all day about this nonsense but it needs to stop. Offer services and goods at full price and no ads or offer them for free with ads and with reasonable amount of ads. Pluto TV to me seems to have the perfect balance and reminds me of broadcast TV years ago. There is about 8 minutes commercial and 22 minutes show per 30 minutes. The ads are usually just showing what other content is available on Pluto TV with the occasional third party ad. I gave in on YouTube and subscribe to YouTube premium because I watch a lot of YouTube and the ads became so intrusive and abundant there was hardly any way I could absorb any content I was viewing. If they start putting full screen non-skippable ads in games I'm done, there's no way I'll support that or put up with that one bit. Especially with games costing $70 to $100. If they need to charge more money and not have ads that's what they need to do because ads completely interrupt and destroy an experience. If they say that no one will purchase their product at that price, then I guess they don't have a product to sell and they need to find a way that is not drowning the customer in advertisements and microtransactions. I'm going to stop now because I'm just rambling. Ha.

@NEStalgia

The only other company I know of that can swing and miss as consistently as 343i is Game Freak

That's insulting to Game Freak. Think what you want about the state of their game quality, but they manage to crank out games nearly every single year. Given the expectations on their shoulders, and the fact they up until recently were just Mobile 3DS devs, they been doing an impressive job.

While I have no interest in an ad subsidised sub I think that anything that could enable people to afford a service like this in such a way can't be a bad thing. Lowering the barrier to entry to gaming is a good idea and while ads aren't the perfect way it's not a bad way. For parents or people on lower a income it's a great idea especially at a time when people are looking for ways to cut back on their outgoings.

As far as the topic of the article goes: I would never use an ad supported model, but think it's an interesting offering.

A lot more intriguing is the idea of a Game Pass Tier that allows access to all the back catalogue, no day one games, for a lesser monthly fee.

Side topic: if Microsoft goes through with the ABK acquisition, they will start eventually adding CoD to Game Pass... but those games mean nothing without multiplayer access that requires XBLG, something that is either an additional fee or part of GPU... I feel like adding CoD on GP would be a way to encourage players to upgrade to GPU down the road (or immediately.)

Thinking of advertising in games made me realise it's always been a thing - even back to the 8 bit days! KP Skips had a game on the Spectrum. You also had Marlboro in Pole Position, Midland Bank in Theme Park (I'd forgotten about that one!), 7UP in Cool Spot, Chupa Chups in Zool, Penguin Biscuits in Robocod and probably many more.

Always seemed quite novel and cool back then.

@themightyant You know I never even noticed the voice search thing, and still don't actually intend to use it. IDK why, I grew up on Star Trek, talking to computers should be natural, but I just can not get myself to start talking to computers...something is fundamentally wrong with it on so many levels, just let me type! Weird inhibition, but...I just think it's so cringe. There's also the creepy factor of companies storing and using your voice patterns for who knows what - first thing I do on any phone is disable all the listening/voice tools, actually, and I cringe at the thought of Telescreens Home Speakers entering people's homes. Anything "Alexa" is disabled right away.

I'd say I'm a paranoid nutjob, and I am, but I'm certainly not alone, X1 was shot down for that very reason by the world of gamers

Though I'm pretty sure I've used the PS5 search a few times, mostly for finding store things, or trying to figure out if I actually own something or not. But since my library is a lot smaller on PS at this point ,it's easy enough to just scroll the list. And most of the bottom of the list is old PS4 disc games. My XB library otoh is.....we were talking backlog....... it can be trouble to figure out what on the store I don't actually own

@Tharsman They make the highest selling franchise in video game history and have been doing it since before Xbox even existed. They crank out annual games that are more like expansion packs for the same 10 year old game, and don't even perform satisfactorily on the single supported platform. I could even forgive the samey-ness (though remember when Pokemon was always CHEAPER than normal game prices?!) if the games actually ran smoothly. But they run worse than Witcher 3 on the dedicated hardware they're made for. Freaking Bethesda games crash less on Switch than Game Freak's!!

@Dezzy70 To be fair, all 3 consoles almost quit gaming. Sony had said that said that after the dire straights of PS3, if PS4 wasn't a runaway success they were probably going to end PS. And at the time the narrative was that consoles were over and mobile was the replacement. And Reggie once said that after WiiU, if Switch wasn't a hit, they might have been done, although that was Reggie, and they have so much cash I can't imagine they'd just liquidate.

Xb, post matrick had no studios, no games, no market share, and no vision, no real means of competing, and importantly PC gaming was ALSO dead. Ensemble and the classic MS PC studios were all but dead, too, and that was once a major market for them. X1's failure (or rather 360's success) killed most of MS's gaming investment even into Windows. So investors rightfully wanted to get rid of it, that's one of the reasons they voted Nadella, he was open to getting rid of it. It's slow going, but it's amazing Phil was able to convince him to go the other way, not just to exit like investors wanted, but to invest massively as a company tentpole, like it's as vital as Office.

It probably speaks to how smooth a talker Phil is more than anything "I think instead of shutting down this money losing division you should just invest like it's the flagship product!" shouldn't work that easily, lol. But we see it's working. We may be able to point at 343 and the process of buying studios because there's no time to build them, but it's a brand that went from dead, money-losing brand that even I predicted would have exited the market by now, to one Sony's screaming worldwide is a monopoly. That's a heck of a brand turnaround.

I think in terms of competition, of course XB, PS, and Ninty are competing. But I think that's where the difference is. The direction MS wants to go is unifying console and PC in general, and bringing it all to the cloud. A sort of hardware semi-agnostic universal gaming platform. That's much, much, bigger an ecosystem than PS and Ninty's. Sure, they compete in it, but the console to them isn't the "platform" it's a tentpole hardware component for accessing the actual platform. Maybe the best metaphor is for Sony and Ninty, Switch/PS5 is THE platform itself. For Microsoft, an Xbox is like a Steam Deck is for Valve. Just a piece of hardware you use to access the library you can access on any generic machine. It's not QUITE like that as a lot of the PC/Xbox purchases other than first party don't "play anywhere". But I think it's the idea for the future. They've introduced tons of standard PC concepts into console (or re-introduced them in a pc-like way (back compat, the way digital is handled, etc.) All the steps kind of slowly merge console and PC on the software side. And the hardware is basically a very custom, power efficient PC.

AFIK for Game Pass ratios, we'll probably never know total subscribers or revenue on GP, that's a guarded secret. But Phil did recently say GP on console was slowing down and hitting saturation while GP on PC was accelerating (again, there's that PC-focus.) He also did say that GP was only 10-15% of total rev, and he expects it to stay 10-15%, but that it'll be 10-15% of an increasing number. And most of its growth seems to be PC. I think a LOT of people tend to forget PC when talking GP which is funny since that's actually the main growth market. And the potential market is enormous.

@themightyant My reluctance with voice comes less from them listening when they shouldn't be (that's actually already been proven to be an issue with some of these monitoring devices, and I find it terrifying that people aren't terrified about such things....) It comes more from them having voice samples to analyze at ALL.

I.E. Not so much that they've recording something you don't want them to have recorded, but that they have recorded enough of your voice to be able to synthesize it, parse it out of other sounds, imitate inflections (not just what Amazon itself does with it which is scary enough ,but what can then be done with it when someone inevitably breaches them and takes it and then that voice print information is on the dark web....) It's less about the content of the recordings and more about the voiceprint analytics on your voice itself. Which they very much have in order to "improve the performance of search."

Not like Sony hasn't had important data breaches that have lost important information from me and I totally did buy all that stuff in Singapore. But they're not even the ones I'm worried about

And it's not like AI experiments have gone rogue with learned data. Just ask Microsoft Tay, the friendly Microsoft chat bot AI experiment, you f****** c********! Tay was really good at learning from social media. And what could be a smarter plan than an AI that learns how to be human from reading Twitter?

I still think there's something disturbing about talking to someone that doesn't exist. There used to be names for people who did that and they used to treat it with shock therapy. Though I'm still not over bluetooth headsets in public when you're in a store and someone is having a conversation with themselves. I will never get used to that. Only technology could normalize the symptoms of schizophrenia.

@ZYDIO, excellent rant. Video gaming is currently a pleasant ad free place I can live in. I want it to stay that way. The few ads on my PS4 ui can be removed immediately. Those ads are also only for stuff like game on sale and are only one square.

It is somewhat surprising that ads have yet to have invaded video gaming on consoles like it has in other media. Paying less for game pass that has ads could be just the tip of a nasty iceberg.

@NEStalgia

I'd say I'm a paranoid nutjob, and I am, but I'm certainly not alone, X1 was shot down for that very reason by the world of gamers

I feel a long thesis can be written about the launch of the XBox 1. As far as voice assistant went, there were two key issues with it:

1) It was mandatory if you wanted to use the product at all, alongside mandatory daily connectivity for DRM that could be obviously leverage for more than that.
2) The NSA mass surveillance scandal that showed the agency was spying on everyone without warrants.

You didn't have to be extremely paranoid at the time to say "oh hell no" to a product that mandated an always active microphone, a camera and online connectivity in a time where the NSA news was the top topic all over the world.

Ironically, I was one such person saying "oh hell no" back then, and today I have Amazon Echo devices all over my house.

They crank out annual games that are more like expansion packs for the same 10 year old game, and don't even perform satisfactorily on the single supported platform.

The games performed well on the 3DS. The studio was simply not prepared to start delivering TV console quality games, and given the mandate of yearly releases (that is not up to them as much as it is up to the Pokemon company) they have not had the time to take a break and simply work things out.

Even large console veteran studios tend to need breaks to catch up with the times (see Assassins Creed.) This is like expecting a Middle schooler football athlete to jump directly into the NFL, skipping college entirely.

Even then, I'm not entirely defending them, just saying they definitely dont have as bad a track record as 343i.

@Tharsman Yeah it's a simplification of the problems with x1 and the timing was an issue, but just because people have the attention span of goldfish and now forget that anyone can spy on their microphones at any time doesn't mean the landscape is any different of not worse.

Though again, the main thing to me isn't so much the raw recorded audio as much as the much much much more dangerous voiceprint meta data, the data on your speech patterns, inflections, the data for the ability to BECOME you. People don't think of that but that specifically is a part of the analyzed data. Whatever governments and corporations could do to you with it is frightening enough (eventually they'll start using the inflections in your voice analysis to determine your mental state, credit worthiness, criminal potential, insurance rates, whatever), but what can criminal orgs do with that data not if, but when it's stolen? The end game for abusing that kind of data may not exist or be visible yet, but guaranteed eventually it will be, and the treasure trove of data just sits there. Could that be processed from a YouTube video or cassette tape recording from the 80s? Sure. But analysed, proceed information done by big data super computers sitting there ripe for abuse isn't there.

The Internet was supposed to be peer to peer, not 5 mainframe clusters, for a reason...

"The games performed well on the 3DS"
Did you play X/Y and SuMo?

I think not being prepared given their CoD sized profits isn't really a justifiable excuse for them. Yes, they laughed at switch and thought it would fail. That's on them, really... And arguably switch is more a predictable 3ds successor than a sudden bump to home console. If Nintendo launched a PS4 pro equivalent,I could see them being on trouble, but what about switch Lite is beyond what gf should have been prepared for for a 3ds successor? And.... Their games really didn't run that well on 3ds either. XY stuttered and had no 3d effect despite not being demanding.. Same problem that plagues them on switch. If we can't compare them to 343 we can compare them to classic Bethesda. But maybe 343 just wasn't prepared for xsx level graphics? Let's ask Craig. Not that Craig.

But yeah I mean nobody matches 343s track record. They've technically never successfully released a game that was well received and fully functional. If they weren't part of MS they'd have been bankrupt by 2015.

@themightyant "LMAO. I do this on a daily basis, when do we start therapy?

But I have my reasons. I like to talk to family and friends when i'm out doing something I dislike, like shopping, and not take up valuable gaming time later. How else will I ever get to Tales? or Trails for that matter "

So you're one of THOSE people! mrrrgrrgrrrr There's a special place in Hades for your kind.