The Witcher 3 Xbox Series S Comparison Shows Mixed Results For CDPR's 'Next-Gen' Update

Anyone who says this console generation isn't being ham-strung by the Series S has their head in the sand. Or they bought a Series S (more likely their parents bought it) and they're trying to convince themselves it wasn't a big waste of money.

It’s an old game I enjoyed when it released years ago.
Really not interested now. Times have moved on and so should developers and focus on new experiences.

ray tracing is a waste of resources anyway on console

these consoles arnt 4090s

the series S is there so you can play the game if you want performance thats what the series X is for.

Digital foundry cant seem to get their head round that idea

@GuyProsciutto Yea, as we can see here, the Series S forced CD Projekt RED to cancel ray tracing from every platform!!! 🙄

@GuyProsciutto That is such a stupid observation. I don't know why you bother leaving comments, you never have anything constructive to write.

It's not DF's fault - its People's perception and expectations that are the Problem.

As ALL these side by sides have demonstrated, RT is being used to add a higher tier lighting method to the graphical presentation. Its not as if the game is completely unplayable or even 'Ugly' without RT - as many will play without for higher frame rates.

The Series S was and still is meant to be a 'low' budget -up to 1440p 'next-gen' console - to enable gamers to play ANY new game - like the Series X, but with lower settings (not just resolution). It can do 'RT' if its integral, but when its also having to use all those 'back-up' old school methods too, its perhaps too much for a Series S which isn't utilising 'next-gen' hardware features.

If you want the 'best' visual presentation on an Xbox, you buy a Series X. If you are OK with playing the SAME games at lower visual quality, especially if you own a 4k TV, then a Series S is a great, cheaper option.

Not 'one' game that has released has as big a gap in terms of 'Quality Visuals' as there currently exists between the S/X of last gen. The Series S is much closer in general and that's with games built without being designed around the Current hardware, their features.

The Series S will still be able to play those - albeit at reduced visual quality compared to its 'bigger' brother, but that's what you are paying for. The Series S is designed so you can play those games at lower visual settings and RT is just a 'higher' setting.

You are not missing out on ambient occlusion, shadows, SSR or Cube Maps, etc all the 'old' ways these games tried to replicate 'RT' in real time. Its a higher setting, like 2160p is a higher setting, or NPC count, Foliage Density etc - all settings that can be tweaked depending on Hardware, The more resources available, the more that can be turned up to 'high' or above...

@Dezzy70 I know opinions are many... But this is how i feel about almost all games. Don't remake or remaster old games. Keep them in the past and use all of your time and efforts creating new games using the latest hardware and software available. If you want to play an old game, play it on an old system. I didn't get a Series X to play old games that still look and play old.

@Tharsman who said anything about ray-tracing?The current gen update for Witcher 3 runs like utter crap on a supposed "current gen" console - it was a waste of CDPR's time and manpower to attempt it. MS may as well be forcing developers to also develop XB1X versions of current gen games, at this rate.

@NarutosBiggestFan
That’s what I always say the same as you.
Im from the days when a new generation meant a new generation, new console new games.
Now don’t get me wrong it’s great you can play the old games on new consoles I guess but there is no need for remasters remakes etc.
just get on developing new games for new consoles.

I got one in 2021 second hand for like £170 on Facebook marketplace. For that price the performance is absolutely incredible and easily one of my best purchases. I've only played a couple hours of this update but with vrr monitor I didn't even notice the dips that are apparently there. Its the best value console hands down.

@GuyProsciutto you don’t seem to be following up here. Let’s draw you a map: the Series S version does not have to have the same features, therefore can’t hold anything back.

If you want to whine about Witcher 3’s update being rough, take it to CDPR because the game is also having a rough time on PC, because it was simply an upgrade to ancient source code. Hell the game on PC is not using native DX12, it’s running on a wrapper (and also performing terribly.) Would bet they did the same to console versions.

@GuyProsciutto "DF - The game has issues on ALL PLATFORMS, there's more work to be done on the game."
You: DRR THE SERIES S IS A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY, IT'S THE ANTI-CHRIST OF CONSOLES DUUUR CHUURRR!1!1!

@Savage_Joe I have a Series X, guy. I skipped last gen of Xbox, why would I choose to buy what is essentially a One X with the disc drive removed, lol

@UndyingInsurgent95 its not about this game specifically, but going forward, more and more concessions will have to be made to get games running on what is essentially an Xbox One X with a RAM stick taped to it. But keep telling yourself it's a current gen console and maybe you'll be able to ignore being stuck with 30fps lol.

The series s is fine, its meant to be an affordable entry level into the next gen console market. and its loss in visual quality is not a big deal when numbers show that millions of people still play consoles on a 1080p tv and/or the same games like CoD, 2k and Fifa which most people don't even realize the difference.

If money were no object then we'd have 1k consoles already.

@GuyProsciutto if you think that the Series S is a One X without the disc drive then you clearly don't know what you are talking about

Unsurprisingly the people that would never buy (nor was it designed for) a Series|S are out to talk bull crap about it. What a surprise 😅.

CDPR just arent as good as they build themselves upto be.

Hopefully people remember the issues when it comes to buying CDPR day1 in future

@GuyProsciutto Guurl, it's far more powerful than the One X lmao. It has a far superior CPU architecture , and it's RAM is much faster. Not to mention the benefits from using an SSD. It's GPU isn't on the same level as the SX (4 terraflops vs 10) but it's still capable of running games at 60fps, albeit with a lower resolution.
Do some research before you start throwing cringy shade.

The people who care most about series S performance don't seem to be series S owners. The idea of the series S is lost on them. The overwhelming majority of gamers are casual and could not care less about frame rates or resolution.

Odds are we will be seeing a ps6 lite or even a ps5 lite later this gen. Xbox has a winner in the series S, it was a stroke of genius.

@Somebody I doubt we see a PS5 lite or an equivalent. Waste of resources at this point. People need to get their hands on the regular PS5 AND Series X on a regular basis rather than at chance.

@trev666 Agreed. The Series S is not a show case console. It’s a budget option that the game runs on. Key word runs, not excels. The Series X does the heavy lifting. Anyone that think the S is holding back the Gen doesn’t know a thing about hardware, coding or up and down scaling. If you want to say the PS4 and Xbox One is holding back next gen games then you’d be right.

looks fine to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5-axCJtpcs&ab_channel=TheXboxTester

please stop referencing Digital Foundry as the be all end all for benchmarking... they are heavily biased as Sony supporters... even when the details show that it runs better on xbox... its easy to see when they frame the narrative as always positive spin for sony, and negative for xbox.. its really bad.

@GuyProsciutto it runs the same cpu, underclocked, less ram, weaker GPU. It's holding nothing back any more than steam deck is. It's not the 90s anymore, games aren't built around custom engines for specific hardware anymore, they're scalable and running on generic engines for any hardware or architecture. A cpu or memory pipeline that can't keep up is a problem limiting design. A weak gpu is not. Consoles are just weak PCs now, and pc hardware rules apply. The custom games built for custom hardware era ended a decade ago.

That really goes to @Dezzy70 too, you have expectations based on the past when it was a crude fledgeling, rapidly changing medium. It's matured now. Old content remastered like with movies and music is normal if it's cherished content. It 7th gen was the last bespoke hardware gen. It's all pc from now on. Except Nintendo but even that's just an Android tablet.

Had they kept it quiet and surprise us with a Christmas free upgrade nobody would complain … but the same old game with a minor touch up and no dlc doesn’t make sense

@GuyProsciutto it's got nothing to do with the Series S. It's the developer doing to much & rushing it out the door again before it's ready as all versions have issues.

People need to watch the Digital Foundry breakdown of the Series S. As they investigated the claim that it held back gaming & they ripped it to shreds as they explained why it & other next gen consoles will struggle on older engines like Unreal 4 which the Witcher runs on due mostly to the fact it doesn't support the consoles key features to help it get better performance. You just have to look at Fortnite & the Matrix demo running Unreal 5 which has been designed to take advantage of those features. On series S both had 60fps as standard.

@NEStalgia
I have the notion of new console new games
That’s where my excitement comes from with a new console.
Will be very interesting what direction Nintendo go with Switch 2. Will it be automatically be backward compatible with all Switch 1 games.
Nintendo make a lot of money on the switch re-releasing old games like Pikmin 3 etc.

That will be very very interesting, because if it is not it will really buck the trend of what you said and the current gaming world trend. It would almost be very anti consumer at the moment.

@Dezzy70 That isn't ALWAYS possible anymore. Games cost a LOT of Money to make and are taking much longer to develop so the chances are that at launch the vast majority of games at least started development for OLD hardware and the new Hardware is still very thin on the ground to 'sell' enough copies to cover costs. Therefore, they are scaled up for new Hardware.

Also, we are now at the point where pretty much EVERYTHING has been done before to some degree and now you aren't relying on Hardware to 'catch-up' to allow devs to make the style of game they wanted. You aren't waiting for Hardware to deliver 3D worlds and full 3D movement, not waiting for Audio to allow 'proper' speech, full surround sound, movie quality audio, not waiting for the 'full' range of colours.

Yes things like RT will 'enhance' the Real Time lighting (or some effects of light - like reflections, shadows GI etc) but that hasn't stopped games looking 'great' with 'cheaper' alternatives - like Cube Maps, SSR etc. Its not as if Games haven't been able to offer Ambient Occlusion, Shadows, Reflections etc in games before.

Generally, the ONLY reason to keep games from last gen is because you want to sell more Hardware units, not because the game couldn't be scaled down if they wanted. As the new generation grows, there are less and less players on Last Gen hardware - then it becomes a question of whether its worth 'wasting' resources on scaling the game down for 'fewer and fewer' sales or better off cancelling/scrapping plans to release on that hardware. Also, you get devs utilising 'more and more' CPU resources on advanced AI, Physics, etc which makes it increasingly difficult to scale back to 10yr+ Hardware.

Its that 'diminishing' returns aspect. 1080p to 4k isn't that much of 'leap' compared to 540p to 1080p, 1bn colours isn't that much of a leap from 16m colours or Dolby Atmo over 7.1 Surround Sound so scaling games isn't that detrimental. I'd never play Doom or Witcher 3 on Switch because I have those on much more powerful Hardware to play at over 30fps, at over 1080p, with much higher Visual Settings, inc RT to enhance the 'lighting' but for some, the Switch was 'perfectly' adequate to play those games on - still got the same story etc...

@BAMozzy
The big difference for me is 60fps at native 4K if possible.
The smoothness of the character movement and especially the panning around is a lot more smooth and amazingly more clear. Not blurred and a mess. Especially panning at slow to medium speeds.
30fps seems so muddy to pan around in like a graphical mess compared to 60fps.
Series x seems very good for 60fps.
On my Switch I now have to use the power of my tv LG C2, motion control etc to smooth panning else it looks so messy at times and so un-smooth.
The switch is definitely aging now, of course more so when docked on a 65” TV.
Before the series x and mainly 60fps I didn’t notice it much, but now I do, and have to compensate the Switch with TV motion smoothing.

@Dezzy70 4k/60 requires a LOT of resources to achieve. The GPU has to handle an image that has 4x the amount of data as a 1080p image. It has 4x the Pixel count with each pixel having its own colour data.

By reducing the Resolution, you instantly reduce the amount of Data and resources required from your GPU. You are processing a LOT less data, less pixels means less 'calculations' on shading for Ambient Occlusion/shadows etc, less data for Reflections etc. So you can scale the GPU in line with the target resolution - Something targeting 1440p doesn't need to be as 'powerful' as something targeting 2160p.

1440p is more than 1/3rd the size of 2160p from a GPU that is effectively 1/3rd that of the Series X. In 'resolution' terms, 1296p (or around that figure) is 1/3rd of 4k and 1440p is nearly 'half' of 4k. Therefore, if the Series X can 'just' hold 2160/60 with that level of visual settings, the Series S with a 1/3rd of the resources, would either need to reduce some visual settings to target 1440p.

The CPU is only a fraction slower which would still enable the Series S to keep the same AI, same Physics, same NPC/enemy counts, draw calls etc things that 'don't scale' with resolution. If you have 100 enemies on screen, resolution doesn't affect their AI, the amount of objects/textures etc that the CPU needs to call in, doesn't affect the amount of Physics/hit detection calculations etc.

The point is, the Series S has been designed around delivering the SAME games as Series X but at 'lower' visual settings - 1 of which is lower 'output' resolution. However, its up to the developers to 'decide' how they want to scale their game - which may well be the 'option' to push 1440p instead of adding RT which only enhances certain areas where Resolution is offering a higher PQ ALL the time.

If the game can't run 'smoothly' at 60fps on Series S, but can on Series X, that is because the devs may have not optimised that version as well as they could and some more work is needed. In general, the Series S is designed to let people play 'new' games on a 'budget' with scaled down visual quality and its so far delivered as it still plays 'every' game the Series X does.

The 'cheapest' option is still 'cloud' gaming - allowing you to play games like MSFS, Starfield etc on Hardware that cannot run it 'locally' at all - limited to 1080/60 on whatever devices you can access Game Pass on - inc Last gen Xbox Consoles. The Series S is a 'tier' above as you can play those 'same' games at 'better' visual quality and other benefits too with Series X offering the 'best' visual quality - other than buying a 'high-end' PC.

Much like people were 'content' with their Xbox One S (or PS4) consoles when Xbox One X (and PS4 Pro) offered a tangible visual upgrade - not just resolution and/or better performance. Some games offered a single '30fps' mode on XB1S, but offered a 'Graphics' mode at 30fps or 'Performance' mode on XB1X. Often the XB1S would be 900p or lower, with an unstable frame rate barely hitting 30fps in general.

Despite this, people didn't 'rush out' to upgrade to XB1X to improve the visuals and more importantly, the performance which generally delivered a 'solid' 30fps - although the 60fps modes could be less stable.

The Series S is the 'new' generation version of the XB1S in that its offering gamers a 'cheaper' way to play the latest games albeit at 'lower' visual settings because they don't 'feel' the need to have the 'best' visuals, just as long as they can still play the games they want. If you want the 'best', buy a High End PC because that will do 4k/60 when Series X struggles to reach 4k/30 fps especially with RT enhanced Lighting...

@Dezzy70 That's my point though, "new console" with specific new games is a historical artifact. They're just more powerful computers to play games with better visuals and more on screen content enabled. Game design is pretty uniform now. Consoles stopped being consoles last Gen. The PC development and life cycle applies now. Even at Sony, all the major games are just ps4 games. Literally. But they look much better. More powerful pc.

Nintendo's the exception though. They do their own thing as they often say. Xbox and playstation just became pcs in 2013 when they went x86 and customized off the shelf parts. They're out of the bespoke game for good, they make pc games now, the pc way for their custom PCs we colloquially still call "consoles".

Nintendo still makes custom toy machines 10 years out of date to make unique everything for. I don't think they'd buck a trend by doing it the old way, different from the industry, and anti consumer. That's been the trend from them since the 80s. Even Sony can't top Nintendo in the anti consumer game. Well maybe recently they have been since Jimbo.

Although Nintendo did BC more dedicated than anyone during Iwatas years. Wii was a literal game cube inside with all the ports. DS had a gba slot. 3ds had a ds slot. Wiiu was a Wii inside. They've always done one single generation of bc until switch. But no more than one. But this isn't Iwata anymore. I think though if they do go with bc you'll see the gcn, 3ds, wii etc ports. For $70..... I think if they do switch 2 it'll have switch bc. But there's no guarantee switch 2 is even their next thing or that they switch from Nvidia to another vendor and that's it for bc. They're truly an island. But. Even if they do it so it's "new games for new consoles", their games will still be half the size, scope, and budget of their peers able to run on an ancient pc. And the third Parties will gladly sell PS4 games remastered on it.

And yeah 4k60 is still mostly a pipe dream. That's a gen or 2 away on a 500 dollar box. It's still iffy on a $3k PC and will probably be irrelevant with dlss before it happens anyway.

@UndyingInsurgent95 Series S has slower and less ram than one x. CPU is a lot stronger though