
Head of Xbox Phil Spencer shed a bit more light on the streaming project 'Keystone' last month. At the time, he mentioned how a prototype had been built, but the final product would likely be "years away" from hitting the market as the team had decided to "take our learnings and refocus our efforts on a new approach".
Now, in a new interview on The Verge's Decoder podcast (via VGC), Phil has discussed this project once again. Apparently, the prototype actually worked just fine, but could have proved too costly bundled with a controller.
Below is part of what Phil had to say - explaining how he thinks the ideal price should be somewhere between $99 - $129 USD. Just keep in mind, nothing is official at this point, and Phil has made it clear he also has nothing to specifically announce about the pricing of an Xbox streaming device right now.
"The console we built that now people have seen, Keystone, was more expensive than we wanted it to be when we actually built it..."
"With Keystone, [we’re] still focused on it [and] when can we get the right costs, but when you’ve got Series S at $299, and like during the holidays you’ll see some price promotion, you’ll obviously have Series X higher, I think in order for a streaming-only box to make sense, the price delta to [Series] S has to be pretty significant."
"...I don’t want to announce pricing specifically, but I think you’ve got to be $129, $99, like somewhere in there for that to make sense in my view, that we just weren’t there. We weren’t there with the controller. And I love the effort. The reason it’s on my shelf is the team rolled up their sleeves and in nine months they built that thing. And a bunch of us took it home and it worked. It worked really, really well."
"...The thing, when it is turned on, it looks like an Xbox, the user interface, everything works, but some of the silicon choices that we were making at the time we were designing just didn’t let us hit the price point that we wanted to hit."
The original plan for Keystone was to build an Xbox Cloud Gaming device that could "be connected to any TV or monitor without the need for a console", and clearly Microsoft is still very interested in that concept. However, the "decision to pivot away" from the prototype design suggests we've got a long way to go until it finally hits the market.
Would you be interested in an Xbox streaming device like Keystone? How much would you pay for it? Comment below.
[source videogameschronicle.com]
Comments 21
nah, series s & series x is better for long term
That price point makes sense. It's mainly targeted at users who wouldn't drop £250/$300 on a console but might drop around £99. Impulse buy territory.
But i'm surprised they couldn't hit this price point. Yes they would need some processing power to decompress the video feed quickly (it's why only the latest Samsung TV's offer it) but Chromecast is £35 and that worked fine with Stadia.
The controller teardown for Xbox one put manufacturing costs at $15. So not sure how they couldn't manage $99+ ESPECIALLY as they can likely subsidize them with Game Pass subscriptions to come, it's basically an introductory offer.
I would never buy that product, I'm enjoying Xcloud in my phone and PC, I think they should invest more in the plataform itself and in the compatibility with more devices, also add more regions that could enjoy the service instead of launching a device that can do the same you do with your current devices.
I know that Smart TV power and technology is not that good right now, but I would love to open the app in my Google tv and start playing.
In the UK, the technology and broadband infrastructure needs to seriously improve. Stadia was a dud BUT it ran well wherever I tried it. Whether that be at home or out and about on 4G. Very rarely were there any issues but then again there weren’t millions trying to be on it so that had some impact.
The issue with Xcloud is that is far to unreliable. Even at home where I have super fast broadband and a good connection, it lags and often stutters - that’s not even close to being acceptable. So unless you have a really good 5G connection when out and about, cloud gaming is just not going to make next Gen portable unless Nintendo power up the Switch or Xbox and PlayStation re enter the market which is highly unlikely.
Keystone could be fine and a decent entry level for many but you can already play on your tablet and soon on Smart TV’s so in all honesty what is the point. It’s about as useful as the Logitech portable and that’s the most pointless invention since …….
@Syeiko013 I totally agree with you. Xbox needs to focus on making the service better - simple as that right now. It’s okay when it works but it’s far to unreliable. Get the reliability sorted first. I am still surprised at how bad it can be tbh.
@themightyant Price makes sense and it’s easily do able. But let’s get Xbox making the service reliable first!
@BaldBelper78 One thing that is perhaps slightly holding their Game Streaming back is their Xbox controller. It currently connects directly to the device via their own proprietary 'Xbox wireless', or slightly slower Bluetooth on mobile/wireless pc. This theoretically adds up to a couple of steps of latency into the chain that simply isn't necessary for game streaming.
The alternative is things like Stadia and Luna which connect directly to the internet via wifi and have less steps in the chain.
e.g. a grossly simplified example.
Xbox is: Controller input -> Console -> Internet -> Server -> Internet -> Console -> Controller Feedback. 7 steps.
Stadia is: Controller input -> Internet -> Server -> Internet -> Device / Controller Feedback simultaneously. 5 steps.
It may only be a few milliseconds but in game streaming every millisecond counts. This is up to 2 unnecessary steps to get feedback on the controller. 1 or more back to the device.
However I also understand the benefit of having one controller that works across Xbox, Mobile, PC and streaming. They must have weighed that up. They already have both Xbox Wireless and Bluetooth capability in each controller.
That sort of makes sense, and thought what it may be. A 4K streaming stick (like a Chromecast) is about $50-60, and an Xbox controller around the same so a $99-130 price point (with a month of Cloud gaming) sounds right on the money to me.
For me what'll be interesting to see is if they'll offer a cloud only subscription (rather than GPU), and if other games not on Game Pass will be added to the cloud to buy individually?
Makes sense - I bet some of that silicon is wireless control connectivity as well as maybe enabling multiple controllers to be connected for 'couch co-op'.
Personally, I'm not interested. I have a Series X so can stream any cloud based title to my TV anyway or even my older XB1's so I have no need of a 'streaming' stick.
@PhileasFragg I would pay for a Only Cloud and online multiplayer subscription for sure.
Also de ability to buy games and play them in the cloud sounds just awesome.
Do you imagine a Cloud Console or something like that?
@Syeiko013 Well this "Project Keystone" would be a cloud console as it'd only be able to play games through the cloud as it'd only be powerful enough to run the cloud frontend software.
While I think a gizmo like this would appeal to existing Xbox owners there's going to be a lot of people who don't have one, and so they'll have to have a cheaper version of Game Pass without downloads like how there's PC only Game Pass.
@BaldBelper78 "Keystone could be fine and a decent entry level for many but you can already play on your tablet and soon on Smart TV’s so in all honesty what is the point."
There's still a good market in Smart TV sticks, and I think this would require some specialist hardware (at least something to connect the controller to) so it's not something that could be added to existing Smart TVs without a hardware upgrade. As such I can totally see a market for this. Hence why they're trying to focus on a low price point. Below $100 could be very tempting for budget conscious gamers.
I think it makes far more sense to put an Xcloud app on every tv
Costco is selling Series S for $240 this month. It would need to be under the $100 IMO
I would buy one just to watch TV. Right now I have my old One X in the living room so we can stream tv and play the odd game or two. But I would love to replace that with Keystone so I could put my One X back in my game room.
Eh streaming games compared to nonstreaming is a huge difference
Any console like this - - especially in the United States - - will ultimately fail until data caps are outlawed and better infrastructure is in place.
Until then it is just another Stadia but with Xbox branding.
Would make more sense to partner with Amazon and get them on Fire Sticks.
Most who buy streaming sticks like that prefer AIO devices.
Overpriced. Good thing didn’t come out this year. Needs to be no more than the cost of a firestick, nowtv box etc. And similar size.
My daughter used to use Stadia, as it was just nice when she visits to not need a separate console that’s used a fraction of the time.
Well, Stadia, on our 1GB fibre here in the UK was quite literally almost near perfect.
She used both a Dualsense and a Xbox controller, both wired to the iMac. Then simply streamed the games via Chrome as recommended.
Now Destiny 2 for example, looked no different than on a PS5 or Series S at the time. Only for a split second would you see pixelated images.
All this, at 4K and HDR with next to no noticeable lag either. I couldn’t believe it, so much so I’d play around with it myself and genuinely be in awe.
Now, compared that to Xcloud or whatever it’s called currently. That is astonishingly bad in comparison.
Same internet connection, use an iMac, Windows PC, Xbox Series S, etc. All max 1080p, and that’s a 1080p that if you so much as dare move, you have janky movement and pixels galore.
There’s no 4K, no HDR, no decent sound. Absolutely crappy lag.
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m impressed, but it’s clear Microsoft need help in this area. Google did say they’d be open to selling/helping others with tech like this using their own.
And if the teams at Microsoft have any sense they’ll snatch that help right up.
Stadia may have been a joke to many, but it produced an image close to that of a PS5/Series X with little to no noticeable lag. To me, that’s impressive.
Xcloud is no where near that, so, get it up to that level, and I’ll be considering an Xbox hockey puck.
I did after all purchase way back when, an OnLive Controller and puck, and that worked better on my old telephone “fibre” connection than Xcloud works on a true fibre connection years later.
Streaming is still a niche service, and the current service doesn't run well enough even in geographical locations where the infrastructure should support it. After trying it, there's no way I would use it as a my primary method of playing games.
I don't blame MS for wanting to move this tech on - they aren't able to shift enough Xboxes to get more of the market, so this seems the best route for them, but the tech is still not ready for the bulk of people they may wish to sell to. Agree with others that far from being Top of this filed, their efforts seem considerably worse than competing services, with even stadia having several advantages over Xcloud. How can such a huge corp in this field have tech that seems years behind others?
We know they will get it right eventually - I hope its sooner rather than later...
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