Todd Howard On Starfield's Xbox Exclusivity: 'It's Just Awesome'

Top Xbox engineers, is going to look incredible.

He has done it now for me, this open world, these main gameplay planets have to look better than HFW as a bench mark and remember it’s new generation only as well.

All the effects all the bells and whistles, weather, wind, water, environmental effects etc etc. The total opposite to Halo Infinites very dull environments and planet effects.

I think this man has just created an expectation in my mind that it will not live up to.
I really hope it does though. Xbox needs a master game and a master graphical show piece a killer game that cries get Xbox.

@Dezzy70 Bethesda games doesn't need to copy anyone nor they have to look like other games in terms of graphics. If you like graphics more than everything then go play those games with catchy graphics. Bethesda games have never been about graphics. Their game world has always been fascinating and the amazing lore. If they can get the dialogue system better than Fallout 4 and better RPG mechanism like Oblivion many of us fans would be over the moon. And the initial gameplay trailer looked really promising. I'm really hopeful Starfield will turn out great.

I hope Microsoft have learned their lesson with Halo Infinite (that really should've been the big holiday 2022 title) and delay Starfield further if it needs more time.

@Tonmoy
They said the words read the article.
People always letting Xbox PR off the hook.
Making statements like
“Xbox top engineers and look incredible.”
Should not be said by the developers then.

They should shut up and make the game and not PR mouth off, it is not true.

3 simple words.

SEEING IS BELIEVING

I mean, what else do you want him to say? It's horrible and the game will look awful?

And of course it's "easier"/better when you can focus on less platforms (from a developer's point of view).

I’m looking forward to this more than any other game, I hope they deliver. Say what you will about Bethesda, their games have always released buggy but they’re some of my most memorable games. Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3, all classics imo.

I’ll have to listen to the podcast in full, enjoy me a bit of Lex Fridman.

Well I certainly hope they deliver on the promises, but Todd has form of over promise and under deliver, so Ill wait till we can properly see the product before assuming this will be brilliant.
Last major title was '76, and we know how poor that was.

I will hope that MS oversight means he cant release a game in that state again, and if it needs more time it will be given it.

Most developers prefer their titles to reach the widest audience it can, but Tods a buisnessman too and being part of the MS family has a lot of benefits. Besides, as long as its on PC as well as the xbox, theres more than enough people can play and enjoy it.

Definitely one of, it not the most anticpated title of next year for me...

I'm still expecting this to be delayed again it doesn't even have a release date and what they showed of it doesn't exactly fill me with excitement or confidence tbh.

It's obvious that if they are now able to 'focus' on a single Platform (essentially) with the same DirectX12 API and Windows OS across the range of specs to scale for, that it would be a LOT easier for Developers and that they will get more 'help' too from Microsoft to get the 'most' they can at this time from the 'Consoles'.

Whilst Playstation 'only' gamers may not be getting a port of this to their Platform, its not as if they couldn't play it on a 'Platform' they already own. The game may only get a 'Native' release on PC or Series Xbox consoles, but with Game Pass Ultimate, you can play this on an iOS/Android Mobile, the latest Samsung TV, a student Laptop - even last generation 'XB1' hardware etc - devices not capable of running the game 'locally' and certainly not at the visual quality and performance offered by Streaming.

All this talk about 'visuals' and the 'Look' of this game is somewhat ridiculous. I doubt it will have the 'best' Character models or even compete with some Cross Gen games like God of War: Ragnarok - Linear games where they have much tighter control on the players view.

However, I do expect it to 'look' better than previous games from Bethesda - Fallout 76, Fallout 4 etc. I expect it to be bigger in scale - with more game mechanics to play around with - the things that make games more 'interesting' to play.

@BAMozzy
Correct GOWR, but with Xbox top engineers and exclusive and new generation and as he said look incredible.
The main game outside planet worlds should look as good as HFW.
By the way I’m Xbox but trying to make a point about PR and also it dam well should look as good as HFW, why the hell shouldn’t it, for all the reasons I gave above.
And it is a bigger studio and over 6 years and counting.

@Dezzy70

He has done it now for me, this open world, these main gameplay planets have to look better than HFW as a bench mark and remember it’s new generation only as well

You are deliberately settling yourself up for disappointment if your benchmark is HFW. It's just not going to happen, Starfield is a game magnitudes bigger and with more complex game systems than HFW, which is pretty much a very polished Ubisoft open world game, hence why is quite a looker. If you want a sprawling
sci-fi RPG with amazing potential for the modding community then Starfield is your jam. But if good looking open world action adventure is what you're looking for better stick with HFW.

Starfield will look amazing, compared to other Bethesda games, for perspective..

Really looking forward to it. Star Citizen, No Man's Sky didn't do it for me. Elite Dangerous seems bug-riddled and grindy. To me, rhe best game set in space so far has been The Outer Worlds. All it was missing was actually being able to fly your ship. Starfield looks set to fulfill that.

Did the top engineers fix the Uncanny Valley?

I am extremely skeptical of this game but really hope it turns out to to be good. Those kinds of comments from Todd certainly jack up expectations for people.

@Sol4ris
I just DON’T get especially after the comments why it can’t look as good.
After six years probably thousands of developers etc. Looks wise it should be up there with HFW.

It’s just excuses for Xbox developers yet again.
I personally have a series x the best and most powerful console 12tflop. Show us.

I’d be far more confident if it was a Playstation exclusive. Sony devs smash it out the park every single time!! It does sound promising tho so i live in hope!!

Yeah xbox engineers dont excite me as its been a decade since they have put out anything meaningful. Ill probably wait a bit for them to fix all the bugs and maybe finish the games content thatll probably be 1 year after release. But hey ill be sure to put $0 into playibg this

@Dezzy70 Horizon is a completely different game, built on a different engine by different developers and with a much more 'streamlined' game-play loop. In terms of 'ambition', its extremely safe and with very light RPG elements. Its also very linear which also simplifies things.

That makes it a 'simpler' game to make and can allow more time and resources dedicated to making the game 'look' pretty but the Game-play, progression, choice/options etc etc a lot more 'basic' by comparison.

This is an RPG in the truest sense. It puts 'YOU' at the centre of the game, not some other persons character with the 'same' background, same traits, same interactions etc. There maybe a 'narrative' path, but its not point - that's more about understanding the setting, getting you used to the lore, the mechanics etc and then letting you 'decide' if you wish to follow that path, or maybe go off and do your own thing - Space Pirate, Explorer, Mercenary, Settler etc etc. That makes this a much more 'complex' game, a lot more scripting, coding etc, a lot more 'effort' in the critical areas - and why these tend to be a bit more 'buggy' because they simply don't have the time or 'manpower' to test every permutations. If you are spending much more time and resources on the ensuring the mechanics - which are far more complex than Horizon, that doesn't leave as much for the 'visuals'. This game is also likely to be so much larger in scale too with more dialogue, more environments, more 'game-play' mechanics etc.

Its a 'different' game with different Priorities to Horizon - which being a narrative driven action adventure, is 'focussed' on telling Aloys story. Starfield is an RPG and puts the Player into the game and lets you play out 'your' story...

@BAMozzy
I appreciate your explanation thank you.
Ok well it then should look at its best for what it is.
The last gameplay we watched inside environments looked good.
But what I looked at from an outside perspective was dull and drab.
It is always good to explore in environments that draw you in and that make the rpg exploration of the planets and lands excite etc.
This is a new generation exclusive rpg on a 12tflop console this should look a lot better than what I watched and should be cutting edge.

I still think you give them far to much of an excuse to let them get away with uninspiring environments and graphics.

@somnambulance
Wow I’m hoping it a least doubles the graphical look and environmental effects of Halo Infinite.
It’s 2023 next year.
We are not playing Atari and text based RPGs 😂😂😂

@BBB
I don’t get that. How can fan mods and patches make things better quickly.
But the paid developers and code engineers etc
Can’t? What the hell is that all about, it is their job I thought.

Comments here make me wonder why people even bother with Xbox. Just go buy a PlayStation and hug it on your couch. Clearly Xbox can do nothing right for you.

@Dezzy70 I think the engine is too old to make it look really good. But maybe they can with the help of microsoft squeeze a little more out and make this the best looking it can. I for one just want it to be good, cause us Xbox gamers need a game we can enjoy on Series consoles. You think we get a updated gameplay video in early 2023?

@Green-Bandit
Well to me there are three games coming
Before the end of June 2023 as per Phil.
So we should have a spectacular video gameplay show case of all three and release dates before end of June 2023.
Redfall, Forza and Starfield.
This should be 2023 at the least the first half Xbox’s to almost own, if Phil keeps that promise and manages everyone correctly.

@Dezzy70 I don’t know it didn’t look dull or drab to me. Remember they’re going for a realistic sci-fi setting with Starfield, I’m not going in expecting the flamboyant colours of The Outer Worlds. It looked how they have described their vision for the game.

Also remember this is a true ‘current gen’ only game, not like cross gen HFW or GOWR, it’s exactly what you’ve been asking for young Dezzy.

@Fenbops
It’s not about colour, even most honest analysts said the outside environmental movement and effects were not there and it looked a bit bland.
And not up to a good standard.

Totally agree, what I’ve been asking for.
Let’s hope it lives up to true current generation game then 😊🎄

@Dezzy70 yeah i agree, we should see gameplay of all 3 of those. I want to say i will like RedFall as it seems like Borderlands with Vampires. I am just not sure yet. It’s not a system selling type of game, but i hope it is very fun and i enjoy it. I am wondering what they have for the rest of 2023, contraband? Not sure Avowed and the likes are ready yet. I just want Gears of War 2 & 3 ultimate. That alone would make me happy for the whole year. But i don’t think those are in the works.

@BBB i peronsally prefer 60fps but if the game is slow paced enough 30fps does still work but it has to be ROCK SOLID 30 no dips at all, cause dips on 30 are way way way more noticeable then 60, but if its even moderately paced 60fps is needed.... if not a 120 mode... fo me i have found a couple of games i keep on graphics mode but they are slower paced games or sport games like the new PGA game...

@Green-Bandit
Being honest, I’m just hoping and fingers crossed the first three turn up before end of June 2023 as per Phil. Let see that happen first.
Then I will think about the rest of the year.

"much better state when it launches"....

I can not wait for this gens buggy Bethesda game that still needs fix by community mods. Lol.

I still wonder how many of the supposed Bethesda fans on PS that are perpetually upset with this ever actually played Bethesda games on PS. Other than FO4, maybe, I can't think of one of their PS ports that was actually good. Sure, Skyrim is, NOW, and it only took 6 years!

@Grumblevolcano Halo Infinite should have been the big holiday 2020 game. Everything else is fail.

@Dezzy70 History and perspective for genre. HFW is a contained linear adventure in a semi-open sandbox. Bethesda makes RPGs. RPGs do not have the same graphics focus that linear adventures do for a large number of reasons, some of which is the sheer scale of objects it has to handle at any time, all of them dynamic. Another is just the sheer time and effort required to make all those pieces that can't go into polishing cinematic visuals.

It should look good for a huge RPG, but it should not be expected to have the same fidelity as a linear adventure/sandbox because it isn't one. You're setting yourself up for unrealistic expectations for the genre and only will end up disappointing yourself.

It should be the best looking bethesda style RPG, sure. It should not be expected to look like what Guerilla, Coalition, etc are doing. And don't forget what happened to CP2077 in trying to be both at once. If you're going to compare it to other games, other than other Bethesda's games (and really they can only be compared to themselves, they still have technology debt they have to build from), then at least compare it to their peers at CDPR, Bioware, Square-Enix (Japan), Sega, Obsidian, etc. Trying to compare against the visuals of a a different genre with a much more limited gameplay design and scope is guaranteed disappointment without perspective.

When I first saw the reveal I was sort of meh on it. But for some reason it stuck with me in the back of my mind, and I dunno, can't even explain it but I am just massively looking forward to this now

This will look last gen, run at 30 fps, have janky gun play and no doubt be bugged to hell. There will definately be no ladder climbing.
However, it still has the potential to be a compelling and interesting game, as the above can be applied to any bethusda game, and it hasnt stopped some their titles being the most memorable experiences in the genre.

Just imagine if MS could wean them off their shabby old game engine and get that gameplay with some performance too.

@Dezzy70 Again, you are 'comparing' it to different devs, different engines and different priorities. You only have a 'limited' amount of CPU processing power 'per' frame and whilst you may have '12TF' of GPU resources, that's per second - not per 'frame'.

In other words, It really does depend on the devs - what was their priority. If Game-play, Physics, AI etc are more complex and 'more' important to the Devs, that leaves less resources available for other aspects.

You could make a very linear game that 'looks' stunning, better than anything you have ever seen before but the game-play could be very repetitive and/or dull because the Devs focussed purely on Visuals and had little resources left for any complex 'Game' play and you have games that will look 'terrible' (if ultra realism is the benchmark) but have the best Game-play loops (like Minecraft) because the focus is on Game-play first, getting the complex mechanics and systems to work together.

Believe it or not, games are much more than just the Visual presentation and some devs prefer to use their 'limited' resources to push in other directions, do things they couldn't do before rather than make the 'same' basic game play loop but now with 'enhanced' visual details. Instead of upping the 'object' count, using the extra CPU resources to call in all those extra objects etc, they could be using those to increase the Physics, improve the AI etc.

Its clear you have absolutely zero understanding of gaming and how they actually work. It seems to me that you are also a very superficial gamer - only interested in games that 'look' a certain way and not interested in the Game Play, Would rather play a linear game that is extremely repetitive in between the beautifully crafted and rendered Cut-scenes, games that tell you their story instead of letting you play the way you want, become the 'character' you want etc. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but you cannot compare Horizon to Starfield - that's like comparing Apples to Potatoes...

The main benefit to gamers for exclusives has always been, and should always be, a level of polish not seen in multiplatform games. Hopefully we see this translate to Bethesdas. I’ve very little doubt, regardless of delay, it will still come out full of bugs.

I’ve never been concerned how this game looks though. Personally i love the art direction they’ve taken this.
The one disappointment from Tom Howard’s recent interview was that it looks like the alien races are resigned to the creatures you’re fighting…the population you engage in conversations with being human. Be a real shame if this is true

@Dezzy70 with the way these knuckleheads can delay and mess up i am with you on that. Just show me the first 3 games in good shape and then we can move on to the next set of releases. The only game i ain’t to worried about cause i don’t play it and they have a great history is Forza. I actually expect this to come out and get 9’s and be a graphical leap in the genre.

@Green-Bandit
Forza is a very safe bet for sure and will deliver if you like that sort of game.
The other two fingers crossed.

@NEStalgia Disagree, releasing a game when it's not ready just because of a console launch is bad. That said, delaying Series X|S launch to holiday 2022 would've worked though as almost everything released for Xbox since November 2020 has been crossgen.

@Dezzy70 agreed buddy, i really hope RedFall is good tho. I used to love borderlands back in the 360 days and with GP there should be an active online community if the game is good. I wish microsoft could buy the Left 4 Dead IP. It’s been too long and the spin off clones just don’t do it for me.

@Green-Bandit
I’m looking forward to Redfall, I like the vampire overtone. Hoping it has a great campaign and gameplay as well.

@Grumblevolcano Releasing a game when it's not ready because of a console launch IS bad. But a game that's 6 years and $400M in the tank being not ready is a worse problem all together.

At this rate though, we're 2 years into XSXS/PS5 soft launch. I figure the 9th gen will really launch around the time Switch Pro drops, lol.

What concerns me most about Xbox studios is certain studios are working on a few games at once.
I know games have different stages of development etc.
But when you look at great games like FH5, Forza and Gears of War. Those particular studios are generally totally focused on that one game until it is released.
My point, spread a particular studio to thin, working on to many games doesn’t usually lead to a top end game in all areas like the ones I mentioned above.
It basically how Sony studios do it, all work on this game, get it out for PS4 and PS5 only, then we will do something else and also worry about PC conversion later on and sub that out anyway. It’s tight game management and focus, that is all nothing special.

This game was one of the deciding factors to getting a series S as well this gen, so it best be good, and I mean atleast 9/10 good. Hoping for a gameplay trailer at the game awards.

@Dezzy70 hfw is trash in everything, even for free it's not worth it.

I’ll believe it’s good when I see it. Bethesda RPGs are pretty much always overrated and undercooked. InXile and Obsidian are far better WRPG developers under the Xbox banner.

@NEStalgia i agree with your Halo infinite comment. There is nothing that say’s this is a 400M dollar game and i have 160 hours into the game with 1 run of Single player and a ton of multiplayer. I mean at first it was really fun, loved the gunplay, sound, scaling the maps with the jumps, all of it really felt good and still does. But the same 2-3 maps over and over and over and over is just insane. How hard is it to bring out a few more maps in less than a years time? If and i mean a big if, they can add loads of content to the game and it’s good content not just filler. Then i would probably come back to the game for some more online play. I tried my hardest to be a Overwatch 2 fan and after countless losses cause players quit or the teams are lopsided i gave up. My kill death ratio was good on OV2, 1200ish kills to 740 deaths but my win lose was 23-47. That is just to team pendant. I bought Call of Duty to give it a try but not sure i will love it. First one I’ve bought since 360 days. But i love having a good shooter i can play for 45 mins if i am time restricted or for hours when i have more time and the First Person Shooter genre right now is really incomplete games that have loads of issues plaguing them all in some way or another.

@fox99
I was more using as a graphical reference really.

@fox99 HFW is fine, if you like Ubisoft format games, which I generally do. But Dezzy is basically obsessed with graphics and tech demos, so the gameplay isn't even on his radar in any of these games, just the stillshots

@Dezzy70 MS's big studios that work on several things are huge studios. Contrast to 343 that basically made 5 games at once that were all supposed to be Halo Infinite, then scrapped 70% of all of it and started again.

Sony's most productive studio, Insomniac, also works on multiple games at once (R&C:R, Miles, SM2, Wolverine). ND works on one thing at once and it takes them almost as long as 343 to get anything done. SSM and Polyphony were really founded to work on one game. SSDS works on an iterative annual sports game that's very good but rarely advances much but adds more monetization methods yearly. Technically their biggest studio is what's now XDev which is working on ALL their projects at once.

I don't think the number of games at one studio means much since it depends on the size and organization structure of the studio.

@Green-Bandit Your OW2 issues sound a whole lot like my Splatoon 3 issues. I really don't understand how all the online games can be so broken and still make money....

@NEStalgia
Studio size does count your are correct.
But we agree or disagree and it’s due to personal taste.
And you sort of proved my point with Sony studios
They mainly work on one game at a time and produce very high scoring, critically acclaimed reviewed games. And big sellers to a degree which sells their consoles.

I’m an Xbox person so I’m not praising Sony in a fan boy way, but they get the goods out the big AAA and the scores and sales.

@Dezzy70 @NEStalgia at least we all agree that for 6 years work and $400 million (I thought it was $200 but whatever) Halo Infinite was a big fat fail 😜

@Dezzy70 But Sony's studios don't "mainly work on one game" more than MS's studios and the quality/time output really isn't consistently one direction for either of them.

Insomniac has been doing a lot of the heavy lifting, working on multiple, and has the quality. ND....produced 1.5 games in as long as 343 produced one and the main one was as divisive. XDev is a general purpose every-title-at-once studio, SSM is your single game example, as is Guerilla.

At MS, 343 is single game and it can't get worse, T10 is one game and is great. Playground is at least 2 at once and seems great pending how Fable turns out. Coalition is 1, plus a loan studio. Bethesda is like 12, but they're a publisher with numerous sub-studios. Arkane under them is 2 at least, but so far very good, etc. Obsidian is multiple. Rare. Do they even do 1?

Really both Sony and MS are split evenly in that regard, some of their multi-game studios do their best work, some of their single game studios are great, some of their single game studios really lag behind the rest of the pack. Then there's Bungie lol. I don't think there's really a correlation between number of games per studio and quality/speed for either MS or Sony. It's more just about how the studio manages things.

You're an Xbox person this month.

@Fenbops I think it came out to something like 7 years and 600 million including delays, staff pay, advertising, etc, etc. I think it was $400 and 6 years when it was delayed during Mtn Dew Gate.

I think $600M in stacks 10's and 20's, and a big can of gasoline would have been a more entertaining use of the money than what 343 did with it, but I suppose taste is subjective.

@Fenbops as someone that played Halo Infinite more than most users i can say it failed and not because it isn’t a good game, its all the same stuff around it that drags it down in my opinion. Awful menu’s, lack of features, lack of Maps. Awful reward system, battle pass that isn’t worth 30 cents. Had all that stuff been right i would gladly give it a 9 out of 10, cause i like the gunplay and the sound, movement on the maps. Like at its core it actually does the bigger stuff right and misses on all the little things, which is just dumb. I won’t say i won’t ever return to it if it get’s straighten out. But after 160 hours of multiplayer on the same 2-3 maps with nothing worth collecting and awful skins, it will take a lot to make this game seem like a success.

@NEStalgia the biggest issue i have with MS is they don’t have a game that when it releases it turns heads and makes the industry pay attention to the likes of the Mario’s, Zelda’s, God of War’s and Last of us. They are sitting on what i believe to be the better hardware and services, and yet Sony has more for their players to play and show off to their friends that turn around and buy a PS5 now or in the future. Xbox has the potential to have many releases coming up with all the studios, but is it just going to be a bunch of 8’s that kinda fill the space or can they make a game that demands attention like a Spider-man or God of War? Cause the internet just doesn’t buzz for Perfect Dark or Halo anymore. Gears of war my once favorite franchise has been on a slow decline, Forza is excellently made but Racers don’t move the excitement needle much. It’s one thing to have Exclusives and i am happy to see them taking it serious but they need something that really bring excitement to the brand and with the studios they got i am not sure those do that. Those are games they were going to have anyway. I understand it’s not easy to create the next GTA or Minecraft. But MS has to start taking story driven character lead games more serious, cause after playing GOWR, it is clear that Sony is still producing world class entertainment that can light the internet up with 10’s across the board and make people believe in the brand.

@NEStalgia
Well I still think Xbox spread things at some studios to far, but let’s chill and see what they produce for us by June 2023 as promised.

I know Halo Infinite had its issues but I always said they were spread to thin, campaign, multi player, co op, forge etc and developing on to many devices xbox one, series s, series x, pc and cloud gaming devices.
That is some spread of development there.

@Green-Bandit
You have said that to perfection and that is what I want for Xbox and the brand.
Because without it they will never get beyond a good third place with the more geeky gang and not become a big general public wow console and games.

I say this time and time again on here and the excuses and super Xbox fan boys pledge their allegiance and knock Sony and Nintendo.

Did they ever think they could be holding the Xbox brand back by being satisfied with what Xbox do now and have done this year 2022 with zero big AAA exclusives. They need to make them listen and I know it’s like fighting Xbox but someone has to tell them and talk some sense into them.

What gets me most is they did it to perfection in the Xbox360 days. Games, exclusives, big AAA.

@Dezzy70 agreed, they should have made Halo Infinite next gen and PC only. I understand the promise to the Xbox One player base and all, but at the end of the day this is your franchise IP. It has to be handled with the most care to draw the most interest and make others buy a Series S & X . Not to mention the fact Sony has no Shooters in house on PS5 to compare to, so if Halo Infinite on PC and Series Consoles is a big name and drawing attention it could have shifted players on the fence and got more sales and excitement around the newer console. About time we start seeing Gears and others turn heads Sony will have 60 Million consoles sold and be well on their way as the place to play again.

@Dezzy70 i think Xbox is stuck in 3rd place no matter what due to not capitalizing on the momentum the 360 had, Sony was on the ropes and a few more punches from Xbox could have been the knockout blow to PS in america and Europe. Not Japan of course. Then MS said we want the Wii money, and from there it was down hill in a hurry. Then launching Xbox One they wanted living room money that they saw Apple and others getting by having Movies, Music and TV. So hence the stupid name and marketing of Xbox One. That failed really bad, but less give Sony credit they felt those punches from the 360 and they were scared and better prepared for the rematch. They can in with a PS4 that was set to trample and it did just that, now PS5 has momentum carry over and Xbox is releasing AA games on a monthly service plan. I mean you can’t fault Sony fans for saying i will stay right where we are cause I believe Xbox threw it’s best punch and Sony took it on the Chin and came back swinging for the fences. I have said for years, Xbox makes the better UI and Controller for me. I love the offset sticks and many things about the Xbox brand, but make no mistake Sony could Glue buttons on a tomato soup can and i would play their exclusives. So controller alone is starting to not hold off my patience. Xbox has work and a lot of it if they want to be a leader in the space of games. They can be in 3rd place, someone has to be in 3rd. But if they are in 3rd i would prefer it to be only 10-15 million behind and have some of the best games of the Gen. Not 2-1 Sony and crackdown and sea of thieves vs God of War and Uncharted.

@Green-Bandit I think there's a lot of echobox going on in the gaming space. There's too much "Sony does this, therefore MS needs to do this too." "Sony gets the most media attention therefore Xbox is failing." It doesn't work like that. Nintendo stopped going 1:1 against Sony, and they're top dog in hardware sales. But PS trounces them in software sales. But even for PS the big big big money is in mtx/subscription money and especially for CoD/GTA/Sports games, not game sales. Activision is really a massive chunk of PS's money, which is why they're freaking out. Meanwhile MS dominates in recurring payments. At the end of the day they're all in it for the money, not the recognition by critics. If the recognition is what gets them the money, that's what they focus on. If it's just market saturation that's what they'll focus on. Whatever gets them the bottom line is what they're in it for. I don't know who's #1 and #3 by revenue, but I'm guessing Nintendo isn't leading there, and I'm not sure MS isn't.

Short term Sony has mindshare. Long term I think Sony itself is worried about irrelevance and that's a big part of the CoD thing. IF they lose "default console" status to the giant PC machine of MS, and they don't have the trendy handheld Nintendo has....what niche is theirs? The exclusives, but the exclusives are a carrot on a stick to be the place to buy everything else, not something to run the whole model on (thus their "MS wants us to be like Nintendo" complaints. Their games cost a fortune, Nintendo's cost hardly anything to make.)

I'd trade my Six-Axis for that tomato soup can with buttons, though. It can't be worse.

@Dezzy70 343 is just bad at video games. They shouldn't have been spread thin working on that feature set and platform list. They were spread thin due to disorganization and a company at war with itself with reports of, in own words, "fiefdoms" within the company where they were allegedly at one point working on 5 separate games that were all Halo Infinite because the different groups couldn't agree on what the game even was. They were spread thin, but not on X1/XSS/PC/campaign/multi/Coop but by their own internal war about what they were even making.

I do think they're going to have great games coming out. But I think they're very PC games for a very PC games audience, with that sort of rough/ambitious/experimental edge to them rather than that "designed for mass market media consumption" polish that also leads to sameyness that Sony has become known for or Nintendo's very very very narrow feature sets executed very very well type of designs. And as such they'll just kind of miss the whole media circus the other two get. And I'm not sure they're bothered by that. Just as long as it's more Oblivion/Outer Worlds kind of under the radar and less Crackdown/Halo Infinite, that'll give me what I'm here for

Largely, I think Sony tries to make games with the kitchen sink that will individually appeal to everybody. MS is instead making many games each of which will appeal to somebody. Just a different approach.

Different customers. Which is good, they all have their niche. I like what Sony does, but I mostly like their under the radar stuff most. GoW....meh. Spider...eh. TLOU, no. Uncharted...eh... I like Horizon but that's borderline under the radar for them, sales are modest if you factor out the bundle thing. Returnal, sales are BAD. So if MS is going to make the kind of things that appeal to me more than the big blockbuster things that don't, I'm certainly happy.

I think there's an argument that it's no different than the dynamic between Sega and Nintendo back in the day. Sega's games were kind of rough, niche endeavors, Nintendos were ultra polished and bigger names. But I have to say I gave those Sega games a lot of time running.

And before saying "but Sega failed so that's bad!", Sega's doing just fine, and is still making some of the best games out there, they just sucked at selling hardware. So does MS, but they don't need to care because they're Microsoft....they just need to focus on making great niche software.

@NEStalgia
I had all the Sega consoles and enjoyed them all to a point in different ways.
Perhaps I’m not sure what Microsoft are aiming for. But I preferred their approach in the 360 days, new good ip and top end AAA block busters for their time the first gears of war and Halo back then. Mass effect joint venture sort of etc.

Big block busters are very good to have in my opinion as well as other game types you like.

Both Sony and Nintendo have a mix and match and so should the Xbox ego system.

@NEStalgia first off you are spot on and right about a lot of that. However i am not saying MS needs to go after what Sony is doing per se, but they have to have something that says this is why we do it this way. Nintendo can get away with not competing with PS, cause they have IP’s that matter and that people follow. MS has Crackdown and Halo infinite and flight Sim those don’t get to play by the same rules as Zelda, Donkey Kong and Animal Crossing. My Point was i am a huge MS fan that finds myself playing my PS5 more and wishing i could use my Xbox Controller. Something is wrong and maybe i am not right in saying what i think it is. But something don’t add up and i believe it’s a lack of quality games not quantity. As for Sony fighting for COD, i agree with you very much that they see the writing on the wall that they could be left behind as they don’t have 2 Trillion dollars and the PC market like MS and no Handheld kid friendly appeal that Nintendo does. But Sony relies on PS money and if they will defend it as much as they can, the one thing Sony does have is creativity, not to the likes of Nintendo, but they have way to make their products stand out and MS lacks that at the moment. Hence people say MS played the controller and UI to safe and PS5 took risks and changes and it made it feel like a new Console generation compared to xbox. That is something as a PS5 and Series X owner that i can attest to. PS5 feel like a new machine, Series X feels like a upgraded Xbox one X with no games that makes me say this is special. MS also admitted to almost selling the brand and walking away from gaming and it shows in certain key areas as to Sony is shows they are full speed ahead and signing deals to make money. Can’t fault them for the old saying you have to spend money to make money and for Sony PS is their way to make money and they run that business like a tight ship. MS is sloppy and has Windows money and i just wonder how much of that MS can or wants to change. Meanwhile all nintendo has to do is make the right Switch 2 and they will be printing money again and i always believed the industry is better when there’s a healthy Nintendo in it. The Wii U did not help the industry out and it felt less exciting then it does now with a Switch doing well. However i need a Metroid Prime game on switch soon, Remake or 4 , but i am tired of waiting. My Friend just got a job at Retro Studios here in Texas. I want to tell him to pass this note for me, but there’s no chance hahaha

@Green-Bandit
I lost a lot of faith in Xbox with Halo Infinite but I did enjoy the gameplay and campaign while it lasted.
FH5 captured some faith back.
Then I thought ok here comes 2022, then they bashed my faith yet again.
I’m hoping 2023 the faith will be restored and it can be the new start of the 360 era again on series x.
I will give them a smile for December 2022 if they put the rumoured skywalker saga on game pass.
That would cheer me faith up a little 😊

@NEStalgia @Dezzy70 some excellent points there. Love the Nintendo vs Sega style of games and how it relates to Sony and Microsoft. But i want to make a comment on Dezzy’s great point and thats the 360 era. MS came out swinging like they knew what to do and who they wanted to take marketshare from. They ran the Xbox Business for a few years to a T, minus the RROD issue. But from a software side, there wasn’t enough time in the week to play all the games. Xbox one and Series consoles have had gaps in them to the point of you have to force yourself to find a reason to turn them on. Thats bad and tell’s me they don’t know how to grow this brand into what Sony has done for their platforms, throw in the fact that they are really upsetting the gaming community by buying whole publishers. Gamers are some stubborn soul’s they wont just buy an Xbox to play Elder Scrolls. They will hold onto the grudge of taking it off PS. Thoughts on that?

This has the potential to be a win win (technically if you have an xbox) I love Bethesda’s formula but they can barely make their games run on their lead system. And that’s PC. Their PlayStation (and to a lesser extent Switch) outings have been worse than the PC and then Xbox entries. They can’t spread too thin because the games suffer. Returning to PC and Xbox may mean that they can squash a few more bugs. Just looking at this from a practical standpoint.

All these points are very good, but I still don't know what HFW is... Been out of the loop for too long

Is this his new catchphrase from 'it just works' to 'its just awesome' 😂

@Kaloudz this is their biggest RPG ever & they're still using that rubbish outdated creation engine so it wouldn't surprise me if it has even more issues than the previous games

@themightyant really? I didn't get that at all from HFW, it just felt like a very basic action RPG that didn't build upon the original in any meaningful way. It's certainly very pretty and the core combat is still good but it felt pretty lifeless to me.

As for Starfield and somewhat ironically given Xbox's perceived lack of output, this is the big current gen release between both sides that I'm truly excited for. Ratchet was pretty fun and The Medium was ok but here we are 2 years in and not much else is on offer in that regard. I'm a huge fan of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games so this is right up my street but I'm not going to take Todd too seriously about its looks given the same nonsense about Fallout 76. I just hope it's much more polished at launch and it's story and RPG mechanics are up to the standard of their best games

@themightyant I'm sorry - I really meant that in a Comparison with a game like Starfield, Horizon FW isn't as ambitious, is a lot safer and it is an Action-adventure title that puts you in the shoes of a predetermined character with a very fixed background and story to follow - OK so you can do 'more' than a standard Linear Action-Adventure and their Ambition is realised in creating a 'bigger, better' sequel to Horizon:ZD but its a 'safer' bet than building a whole new IP with the Ambition and scale of this project, and the range of new mechanics, Physics etc that I expect to be utilised here. Just the fact you have 'Space' combat (zero Gravity) as well as various planets (maybe with varying Gravity and differing physics as a result - but at least different to Space).

I didn't mean it to come across as 'negative', but in comparison to Starfield, the Projects are very different and Horizon is a safer, less ambitious (not saying its not 'ambitious' at all) and being more 'action-adventure' with a predetermined Character lead and their 'fixed' background, fixed Story arc etc is a lot 'easier' than giving the Player the option to create their 'own' Character with their own background story, their own character traits etc that can and will impact on their 'game-play'.

I was trying to illustrate the point that these are very different types of games and that you have the 'same' limited pool of resources on a Console. Developers have a limited amount of Processing power per frame and have to decide what is the best use of them for their 'project'. Different engines have different budgets to do 'similar' effects too so just because 1 game has RT at 60fps on their 'engine' doesn't mean another should be able to offer 60fps on their engine.

I am sorry if it came across that I was being 'dismissive' of Horizon - Its one of my Favourite Playstation games in recent years and certainly 'more' ambitious than its predecessor and certainly more ambitious than Killzone too but I was trying to illustrate the difference between that and Starfield specifically in this instance...

@Dezzy70 "...these main gameplay planets have to look better than HFW as a bench mark and remember it’s new generation only as well."

I would not count on that. Making a game pretty and 3rd person to show off the character is Sony's top priority. Bethesda games priority is world-building/quests and then gameplay.

Really don't see how this game is better then No Man Sky

@theduckofdeath
I know I need to lower my expectations
But I have this 12tflop console that desperately needs something up there 😂

@Green-Bandit "Gamers" will buy any platform that has the game they want to play on it, or insist it's not a good game to begin with on internet forums. Only internet enthusiast fanboys will boycott buying a console or subscription to play a game they want because their identity-fueling platform doesn't have it. Grudges are for the die-hard fans that make up probably under a percent of the actual market, and even if they made up half, for better or worse, gaming memory is short because gamers are young overall and the next generation that knows nothing about Elder Scrolls not always having been a Microsoft game is just around the corner. That's how we got stuck with mtx as normal after all!

@Dezzy70 I think they've talked about past strategies at times. Those were different campaigns with different strategies. OG XBox was absolutely aiming squarely at gunning for PlayStation's market, and intended to compete directly against them for their market. Early 360 continued that strategy, but even by mid-360 that strategy started shifting, then of course Wii-chasing to failure. Then the whole "tv box" failure of X1.

The new strategy is very clearly NOT aimed at competing directly against Sony for their market and in their own words is more interested in playing a few steps ahead into the future. Reading between the lines, MS sees PS a long term heading to obsolescence as-is and services to be the primary way video games are consumed, with the other big tech companies the primary competitors. They're just not worried about PS's market because they see the bigger market coming from a place PS doesn't already have a foothold. Thus "big blockbusters" in the Sony mold isn't their ticket to that market. Sustained trendy/popular content is the route to that, and a Bethesda game is perfect for that strategy, as that's exactly what all their games tend to be (Skyrim, Fallout, etc.)

For Sony's part, they're not oblivious to that either, thus Jim's huge shift to GaaS service games as their main focus. They won't be focusing so much on one and done blockbusters anymore themselves ,but they're in a worse position to compete in the service-driven future against big tech.

@NEStalgia
I still think a good few blockbusters would assist Xbox in their long term strategy.
It would create popularity for xbox and brand recognition.
At the end of the day you need people to buy what you are selling.
If xbox want to go big in the future they need to have what the general public want and some public awareness of the brand and good PR Advertising.
Look at COD And GTA V and the endless Nintendo game sales of their big name games.

@Dezzy70 “Making statements like
“Xbox top engineers and look incredible.”
Should not be said by the developers then.”

It’s Creation engine. It isn’t going to look like something made on the Decima engine. If that’s what you’re expecting, then I’m pretty sure you are going to be sorely disappointed. People play Bethesda games for a variety of reasons, but cutting edge graphics isn’t one of them. It doesn’t mean it can’t look beautiful in 2023 the same way Skyrim looked beautiful in 2011.

@Dezzy70 Bethesda games and HZD series are totally different in scope, gameplay and focus. A dev team could make a HZD-looking & playing game on Series X, or another could make a Bethesda-like game. You won't get both. Best bet is the PC version.

Bethesda would have to build an entirely new engine or use UE5. UE5 may not support all the systems we are used to in Bethesda games nor the new ones coming. Nor does the team have experience with UE5. Experienced UE5 developers and massive support from Epic and The Coalition would be needed. So long 2023 release date.

Building a totally new engine with graphics being paramount would narrow the scope of the Bethesda worlds we are accustomed to. Not many want trade gameplay and exploration for the prettiest console graphics possible.

@Green-Bandit Microsoft needs to get a couple more top-notch reliable studios under their umbrella. Playground, Turn10, and the Coalition leave you feeling comfortable. The problem is that MS needed 2-3 more studios like them 5+ years ago.

Games are taking longer and longer to develop. Sony got a handful of cinematic focused games on PS4 and just continues to do sequels, expansions, and remakes of the same games. To fill in the gaps, they are buying 3rd party exclusivity and signing publishing and advertising deals like madmen.

Things should shake out for MS in 2023. Starfield, Redfall, Forza, and maybe Hellblade will see the light of day. Those titles will provide entertainment and distraction for players. In the meantime, other titles will still be progressing in development. By 2024, releases will seem far more frequent and smoother.

As far as MS producing a GoW-caliber (in regard to looks and presentation) game, who knows. I'm playing GoW (2018) on PC now, so my view could be a little skewed. The game is really gussied up. Kratos, his axe, and the guilded doors look amazing. Every environment interaction is a cinematic sequence, almost to the point of being overdone.

Maybe MS could go a similar route
with Perfect Dark (or Indiana Jones), though I have doubts. A really big, colorful spectacle. My feeling is that PD will remain an FPS. A hybrid would be tricky but possible.

@theduckofdeath
You have a good point. But at some point Bethesda will have to use unreal 5 or create a new engine as even though graphics might not be the most important. There are expectations of graphical quality as this new generation moves on and even next generation.
They can’t stay in the old engine dark ages for ever. Even now we have 12tflop console so there are expectations, let alone next generation with say 24tlops.

@Hypnotoad107
I don’t disagree with you.
Then the developer, shouldn’t make statements like that then.

@Dezzy70 I imagine Bethesda and many other studios are preparing to transition now. Either designing and building their own engines, or learning & staffing for UE5-based customized engines. We won't see the product of this for years. Possibly the end of this generation. The cross-gen releases will likely repeat.

What defines a "blockbuster game" though? Sony has their own formula for that but going 1:1 for their existing customers isn't necessarily a great strategy. Is Starfield a blockbuster? Well, Skyrim was. Fallout 4 was. Why wouldn't Starfield be? Does it fit Sony's template of blockbuster? No. Should it? Probably not. Is Sea of Thieves, a blockbuster? Forza? Yes, really, they are. But in a different template than GoW/Uncharted. Animal Crossing is a bigger blockbuster than Kratos could ever dream of being. Ain't no one can stand up to that little tanooki in sales. But it's surely not a Spiderman like game. Link can go take a hike, he barely even matters next to the dog in a skirt.

That's the thing, people "inside" gaming enthusiast circles can be amazingly uncreative in business sense. The idea that one existing definition of success is the one to copy. Sounds like a media exec's idea of success.

Is MS not advertising? Well they're not sponsoring sports or running movie trialers like PS. But what DO they do? Samsung TVs are going to carry Xbox logos, including on remotes and menus, every single PC at all has Xbox logos every single time you pull up the start menu. Costs them nothing and puts Xbox literally in front of everyone as they work all day long every day. Are they advertising?

MS isn't stupid. They know how to put their product out there and make it a ubiquitous default. That's what Sony's worried about in so many words. They were on track to doing that in the 360 days until Matrick's weird jump off a cliff.

@theduckofdeath
They should have been doing that about 3 years ago if not more. About a year before the new generation.
It always seems when we have a new generation we go backwards to forwards.
Not forwards to forwards.
Though this new generation of cross generation games have not helped this very very slow new generation only, games wise.
You could have honestly waited until now to buy a next generation console not two years ago, Of course like I did two years ago 😂.

@Green-Bandit I think there have been a few issues for Microsoft (Xbox). MS held the purse strings way too tight for a decade at least. Now they have finally loosened, and everyone is panicking. Several years will be needed to recover from the development starvation of the XB1 era.

Secondly (yet related), MS did not acquire closely partnered studios. Bungie, Remedy, Bioware, Pandemic and more slipped away. An argument can be made for Respawn as well. MS did not allow Xbox to continue many contracts and expand relationships. I imagine it may be difficult to keep studios in publishing deals in a mult-platform environment, not being the market leader. Still, some of those studios were acquired by others.

Lastly, Xbox really only has Master Chief and they cannot toss him into any game. The fans will revolt. Nor can they change Halo much at all, for the same reasons. Nintendo can make Mario/Zelda typing games and MMA games and they will be accepted.

@NEStalgia
Xbox is an official partner of the England football team and the French team.
That’s includes male and female teams and other stuff.
They just don’t seem to take advantage of it that much.

@theduckofdeath you are spot on, i agree with all of that. I just want MS to have 1-2 games that go that extra mile in the cinematic experience, cause Sony has proven those to matter with fans and the media. I for one love GOWR and Last of Us, the rest of Sony’s titles i could honestly take them or leave them. I buy a whole console for those two or 3 games tho. Same with Nintendo i but that console for a handful of titles and my Xbox’s play 90% of my video game collection. The xbox Controller for me is one of the main reasons for that, but you made some great points and i agree that with the amount of time it takes to get games from ideas to store shelves is getting longer and longer and MS having 30 Studios will be the way to keep a steady stream of new content and i don’t think MS is done getting talent and studios. I think it’s about to get real interesting going forward and correct me if i am wrong in saying, this is what the industry needed. Competition between Sony and Microsoft to push each other to give us better games, value, features and services. We need a strong Sony and a strong MS, and so far i am seeing this as the best thing that could have happened cause Sony all to themselves would crush us in bad consumer choices to push their profits and not have to care what they put out.

@theduckofdeath MS treated Xbox as a hobby project like Apple did with Apple TV and hobby projects get beat out by others that focus and push the product to it’s best. Sony to their credit are all in on PS and ain’t shy about it. MS was confused as to what they wanted to do or not do and I agree they let some deals and talent from the 360 day’s go to waste and thats sad. XB1 has hurt them some yes but if they get a 2023-2024 that shows their vision and plans and gamers are eating it off a spoon, they will and many others will forget XB1 and sign up for GP. It’s hard to bet against 2 trillion dollars and counting if they focus and use some of that to make sure when people think of Microsoft they think of Windows and XBOX. Not just a hobby project that sticks around, but a real product that the company fully embraces and supports.

@Green-Bandit " I for one love GOWR and Last of Us, the rest of Sony’s titles i could honestly take them or leave them. I buy a whole console for those two or 3 games tho. "

Ironically that's the thing Sony's freaking out about with the "they want us to be like Nintendo" concept and probably an example of why those blockbuster games are not all they're cracked up to be from a business standpoint. As a customer depending on when you buy you represent either a net loss or neutral profit for them. Selling you the hardware either cost them money, or nets them hardly any money. Selling just their overbudget first party blockbusters nets them little money. They want you in for Overwatch, Farcry, Sonic, GTA. If you're buying those on XB, it doesn't actually benefit them much to make expensive games to bring your business over, since it's not really the profitable business they're looking for.

Nintendo can operate like that because their business model is designed around it and their games cost a fraction of the budget to make. Sony dug a hole of spending more and more and ratcheting (pun not intended) customer expectations up to unrealistic levels, so ending up with Nintendo-like customers that are mostly in for the Nintendo games for Sony is a financial impossibility. That's why they're so worried about MS becoming a default "one stop shop" (their words) where everybody does exactly what you and I do, buy PS for the exclusives, which is basically a doomed model for them.

I'm almost as bad, though, I do buy the non-blockbuster exclusives (GT, Returnal, Sackboy, Knack, Gravity Rush) and actually prefer them, plus, for now, with a strong Japanese preference to my buying, I still buy a number of third party games with them too. But, now that more of those are heading to XB, that's also dwindling heavily, as Sony willfully dropped their Japanese roots, because as Sony feared, XB actually is the better "one stop shop" at least in terms of digital buying, and all of that is their own fault being so tight with their store and services.

I disagree about the "hobby project" part. MS was all in from day 1. They definitely got confused, but it wasn't for lack of focus. They launched OG XB with probably one of the most intense product launches ever, willing to spend any amount of money and take a total loss on it just to shove their foot in the door. It was a critical project for them, their goal was to stop the bleeding of their DirectX monopoly and PC gaming monopoly on development tools and hardware/Windows sales due to the rapid rise of PS. They had to be all in. A segment of Windows was under threat from PlayStation. The problem was that over time, a focus on "XB is necessary to secure Windows" changed to "XB exists to bolster Windows", a subtle-sounding but huge difference.

360 Definitely was focused at first, and was a major product for them. Though it took them most of 360 to make back the losses from OG. And the costly RRoD replacements were all-in. I don't think MS treated it like a hobby project. Matrick obviously had a very different vision for what the product is and who the customer is, how the industry works, what color the sky is, and whether or not water is wet. But even for him it wasn't lack of focus as much as focusing on dismantling the existing business and destroying a successful entertainment product efficiently that caused the problems. And upper management was so focused on "how does XB synertize with Windows and Surface" they lost sight of the fact XB was being dismantled to become a Windows add-on the same way Vita became a PS4 add-on.

@NEStalgia i agree 1000% with that. I know i am not the profitable customer sony is looking for. I buy a PS4 then traded that for the PS4 Pro and owned maybe 4-5 titles from sony and the rest was on Xbox. Hardware is sold at a loss to make it back on games accessories and services of which i buy very few from sony and you are right Nintendo can be that for me cause they sell Hardware at a profit, albeit a small one, and their games are far lower in cost than Sony’s. But i just can not use a PS controller for all my shooters and other games i enjoy on Xbox. I play Overwatch 2 fairly competitively and i would get my butt whipped even worse on those sony sticks and my hands would cramp like i was Timmy from South Park. Sony has a right to fear GP but they also have a right to make their PS plus services a touch better. At the moment they are fairly weak and only exist to say they have a competitor to GP. Sony is said to take more Genre’s with PS5 and that might get me to buy a few more games and pay them more. Last of us Factions seems like it could have season passes and make money maybe. But overall Sony and Nintendo are exclusives only for me and i know that isn’t great for sony, i did however buy a pair of their H9 headphones for PC and PS5. MS does have the chance to be that one stop shop for players as time goes on and GP gets bigger and bigger and more titles come, but for me even when XB1 wasn’t doing so hot, i was still buying all my 3rd party games there. Throw in the way XB handles B.C and with smart delivery and i think many might start going that direction. Time will tell but i will always be Xbox and Nintendo Heavy with Sony having a few franchises i love and want to play. If they went to PC day and date i would leave the PS ecosystem and sony knows that a lot of players would and thats why they won’t do that in the near future.

@NEStalgia the reason i said Xbox was a Hobby product for MS was cause in the OG years it was. Xbox team wasn’t even allowed in the meetings with Windows team and they were kinda in th basement on campus. Then in the early years of XB1, MS was thinking and looking around to sell the Xbox name and brand. If not for Phil Spencer as we all know Xbox Series consoles might not be here. It took him to get MS as a company on board and focus hard on gaming and not just for console but all platforms. Hence this whole ABK deal is really not about COD and more about King and Blizzard giving MS more mind share in the mobile and PC gaming spaces. I think with a more focused energy around Xbox on Microsoft campus we will start to see a much better focus and team support and that has to scare Sony some. MS has been doubling down on cloud and other infrastructures that support gaming, and it now more than ever makes sense to take gaming seriously as a business model. But i stand behind Xbox went in and out of phases as a hobby much like Apple TV for Apple Inc, and that showed in different phases of its life cycles. Series X shares a lot of the focus the 360 did and i am excited cause i know if they fail it’s not from a lack of trying. XB1 had periods of we no longer care written all over it.

@Green-Bandit Funny thing is enough people around these boards call me an XB fanboy, but realistically I'm still a pretty profitable customer for Sony, I buy enough variety with them they still want me in their market despite not being full pony. The average gamer buys 2 games a year, so I'm still a better customer than the average and their overbudget blockbusters are actually what I'm least interested in from them.

Business-wise, Sony does have a real conundrum despite being market leader now, and they kind of let the crack show in the "like Nintendo" comment. They're the market leader largely because they had 5 or 6 years of the market to themselves and just became an automatic default, not really because of anything they did, but just because they didn't make any massive mistakes. Fans like to pretend it's because their games are so awesome, but reality is, it's simply because they didn't screw up while everyone else did, and being the default console for the biggest games (which are not their own games) is their lifeblood since PS4. They really do have an actual problem of how to convert that inertia into an actual strategy. And they keep getting in their own way, as they try to enact protectionist policies around their current status, constantly making them look like the Sony of TV third place infamy. I don't like Jim, but he's not so stupid he doesn't know that they're in a tight position, the blockbuster series they've coasted on aren't going to hold the bubble forever, and can see the industry direction that they can't remain the default CoD/FIFA/Fortnite platform with their current direction either. We laugh that the market leader is reeking of desperation with their weird legal claims, but I kind of do see where they're coming from. Results always lag in this industry. 2022 leadership was claimed in 2016. But 2029 on the ropes hanging by a thread can be claimed in 2022. Not just a finishing move by MS, but death by a dozen cuts from MS to Amazon/Apple streaming adoption rising, Nintendo doing whatever Nintendo does, economic changes, etc, etc. They went from the big fish in the small pond throwing their weight around to a market leader destined to become underdog competing against the silicone valley big 10 with half the infrastructure over a decade or so.

The problem is Sony Corp sucks massively at competing. Always has. Always will. If they can't dominate, they bail, because they simply never really know how to compete other than when they're the big dog, and when that fails they go upscale niche. They're trying that in gaming, but eventually in that direction they'll hit the buzzsaw that is PC. At one point it looked like they'd kill PC gaming. Which is why Xbox was created to begin with - and it's done it's job even if it's job is securing PC gaming. They actually do need a real strategy, they don't seem to have one, and while fans can't see it, I'm sure leadership sees the looming threat. Once the default status of PS4 era fades, and even if older gamers stick to that forever, the new kids coming up that they really target don't even know that existed. Ultimately, "platforms" have quietly replaced "consoles" and Sony is still selling "consoles", and never figured out how do to platforms and services. So is Nintendo, but Nintendo more or less sells "toys" more than "consoles" and that never goes out of style, no matter how old customers are.

They might actually do well to lean into that Nintendo position they fear, they could be good at it, but they'd have to cut the budgets and increase the volume of their projects. And realistically have to lean hard back into the direction of their Japanese roots. If they can't be the default platform competing with silicone valley then they could take their games niche and focus on making it a must-have niche. But it has to offer more and cost them less. Which isn't out of line from what Layden got sidelined for trying to say. And their consoles have to stop being mini-PCs.

As for the "hobby" thing, they really did go all in on the product, because, again, not countering PS was a threat to windows itself. Yeah, there's the stories of corporate factionalization, a problem that still hurts them like with 343. But it was a priority market for them all the same, and they put up big money to do it. Around that time though there was a problem where they treated bought out studios very poorly, making them conform to business software formats, and it just didn't work.

And yeah, one of the reasons Nadella was appointed is he was open to purging Xbox which investors didn't want. But that's not so abnormal. Sony was also on the brink at the end of PS3 and was likely to close PS if PS4 wasn't a hit.

TBH, I think Microsoft in general went through phases of "we no longer care", not just Xbox. I think Xbox got caught up in a generally apathetic period under Balmer's reign at MS. Under Gates things were different. He was ruthless and grotesque, but that was their "shark" period. For better or worse, mostly worse. The days of Micro$haft. Then they just got too weird and dominant and it showed, the apple and linux revolutions happened around then. Then under Balmer, it just went....passive? We had the debacle of Windows Vista, we had Zune, the dark days of Xbox, the Windows 8 and Metro/RT experiment/disaster, missing the boat on ARM, phones, all these weird side projects that never really had a market and were always half-baked, weren't supported, then vanished. Even Office was a mess and in question. Pretty much everything was a mess and went in weird directions at the time. There's a case to make that X1 was one of the least bad programs they ran in that era. Phil gets and deserves a lot of credit for salvaging Xbox, but Nadela also is owed a lot of credit for righting a much bigger sinking ship. It's really him that changed MS as a whole transitioning from the ruthless, universally hated villainous monopoly of Gates' era to the comical, directionless, washed up has-been of the Balmer era, into the "competent company with a neutral image" today.

Super well said and right on the money points. I would like to say that Balmer was the greatest thing to ever happen to Apple. Balmer mocked and made fun of Apple all the while not being smart enough to see the market shifting to mobile and $600-$1000 dollar phone in the pocket willing customers. That guy hurt MS in so many ways i don’t even want to list them all. Nadela on the other hand i really like and he has trimmed the fat and made MS a more focused company and i agree it’s both he and Spencer that have saved Xbox and combined the brand alongside PC, a business model i think that will shatter the mold of PS’s more walled garden, high prices and weaker service’s strategy. You are right Sony as it stands is on borrowed time as market leader as Silicon Valley is after the gaming profits and mindshare of billions of players. I do want to give sony some credit and you touched on it and that is not making to many big mistakes and really being the default place for games to go. They played their hand in that just well enough to deserve credit. On the flip side, Sony Tv and PC and other divisions have suffered from that very thing you said, if they ain’t leading and controlling the market they leave or dwindle down to niche. I maybe reaching here but Sony see’s that if they can’t get a big live service game out of PS5 that draws countless money like other big service games do then they will deem PS5 a bit of a failure. They are creating many of those in hopes 1-2 stick. If they were amazing i would support it. But i am no fanboy, based on the fact i buy all 3, but as i have said i am a controller and services fanboy and I heavily favor MS over Sony. Nintendo is just fun for me, i love their IP’s much much more than their hardware, but they are worth it and i rarely regret my nintendo purchases. XBox has a plan for the now and the future and i can’t disagree that sony see’s it and is a little worried, as they should be, no one more than Sony knows what it looks and feel’s like to be being pushed out. They will never have the infrastructure to carry against this new PC, Console, Cloud and mobile strategy MS is working towards. PC day and date alone is insanely good and smart and while i have seen high praise for Sony games on PC, i have yet to build a PC to play them cause i would want a super computer and don’t want to spend that at this moment, after buying all 3 consoles, full surround Sonos house audio system and a 65 inch LG Oled. I am on the cutting edge side with my tech at the moment and building a good enough PC just wouldn’t make me all that pleased. But if the day comes that i could play day and date PS games on PC, sony would lose me on the hardware and accessories side, and i would just support the same IP’s i do now only on PC. This is set to get really interesting going forward, MS has to keep it’s foot on the gas and rarely touch the brakes, if they do that they are setting themselves up for loads more marketshare and better brand awareness, something Sony hasn’t had to compete with since early 360 days and that excites me.