Microsoft Confirms Existence Of 'Keystone' - A New Xbox Streaming Device

"Pivot away"... The new "delay".
What else they gonna delay, the Xbox showcase? Why not? It's the trendy thing to do now.

Would be a hell of a lot cheaper than needing to buy an xbox for me and each of my children. i’m in if the price is right.

@Fishticon It’s an unreleased product in R&D! Literally every single product in any company goes through changes and different iterations before a final design, theirs nothing ‘fashionable’ about it! It is literally common standard practice.

Nice job from Xbox

Let's hope their vision for cloud gaming doesn't fully take over traditional console gaming

What do they mean "Pivot away"? Do they mean they've changed plans on this device.

I reckon the original plan for this would have been release it this holiday alongside starfield. I expect we’ll here more news about this once starfield has set date…which I reckon will probably be next November.

I think pricing is going to be everything for this. Needs to be around the £30 mark I reckon. I do wonder how much impact something that price point would have on console sales though…particularly the series s

I've been toying with the idea of buying a Series S for my bedroom. I have the 2tb memory card, so could easily move it from my downstairs Series X to quickly access games already downloaded. However, I'm really hoping that this is something that I can use for the TV in my bedroom instead.

As I have said before, I think Streaming will inevitably be the only way to deliver the quality, scale and performance gamers demand to any device.

Right now, games are built around the design limitations of hardware and being able to at least scale down to the weakest hardware. How 'big' the game can be is determined by how much storage they have - and already struggling to fit games on Discs. The Cloud can essentially have infinite CPU, GPU, RAM and Storage capacity.

That doesn't mean that I think Consoles will disappear in a generation or two, but I can see the Console being a bit like the Switch is today - a system that can't play 'every' new release locally and those that can be ported, are those that can be scaled back enough to run - but at least you can play Locally.

More and more games are going to rely on Streaming. Whether its offloading Physics or AI processing to the Cloud or streaming in environmental data because its too 'big' for internal Storage/disc distribution. Some games will ONLY run in the Cloud and MS have their own Cloud Publishing service for these.

Its going to come down to who will spend $500+ to play the SAME games (many of which will require Online access for Streaming) on a Console, when you can play anywhere via the Cloud and get much better visuals and performance. Performance too also means lower input lag - so whilst Streaming may add 1-2ms extra, its still 'lower' and more responsive than playing Locally at 30fps...

I should give game streaming a go on my Series X just to see what it’s like. That said, I don’t mind this existing. Nice option given the cloud gaming experience performs well.

@BAMozzy Havent we all heard this a million times in the past?

That theres a decent future is allowing people to stream games to any screen cannot be denied, and this remains the usp of cloud streaming and what will evolve its adoption. MS are well placed to be at the forefront of this.
But the talk of offloading ai and physics simulations has been peddled for years and is still just hot air. Remember how Crackdown 3 was going to blow our minds via 'the cloud with its astonishing pysics simulations a console could never compute?
We all know how that turned out.

A manufacturer who is currently failing to suppy 1st party titles for its current machines, is not about to start developing titles which wont even run on said machines, that would not be a good look.

This whole conversation reminds me of the 'wise' narritive peddled by industry luminaries telling us single player games were dead 15 years ago. It was BS then and still is.
Im not saying none of this stuff will ever happen, but theres at least 2 gens of boxes left before you get trully large scale cloud games which couldn't run on a local box.

Despite my tone, Id love to see what could be done. If anyone was going to do it, I thought google would do at least one, just to show Stadia could run something your local machine never could, but their commitment to it was always paper thin.

Microsoft could, and should step up to the plate, but if they use precious resource to develop software that wont run offline on your xbox, the optics for the faithful would be really bad, so im doubting they will green light this anytime soon, and the idea theres suddenly going to a bunch of such titles crumbles under any close examination.

Im already late fifties, I'm willing to bet Ill be mid seventies by the time I need to play such titles in the cloud, assuming my knarled old hands can still use a controller then!

If it comes sooner, Ill dive in of course, but ive now seen a lifetime of such predictions come and go and be wrong every time, so im not expecting any changes quickly. Ive also met and worked with many so called 'luminaries' and know first hand they have little more insight than you and me sharing our views here.

Maybe we will revisit this point in another decade on this very site!
Id like that.... take care.

@Fishticon
Pivot is the polite term for scrap and redo... While that does result in a delay its primary intention is avoid putting something out that would be useless in only just a couple of years.

I would rather see a pivot then a true delay. Pivots usually mean that what they had would probably not be practical in consumer eyes.

@UltimateOtaku91 Agree with you 1,000,000,000,000,000,000%

@Titntin Regardless of what may of been 'touted' and not necessarily successful in the Past, that doesn't mean that the 'future' will have the same results - especially with investment and technological development.

The infrastructure to make this a reality is constantly being worked on, developed etc. Right now, you can play games via streaming at a higher level than 'some' hardware would allow - no way could you play MSFS on an XB1, Mobile/Tablet etc - but yet you can because of Streaming. Streaming also allows MSFS to include the 'whole' earth on a 1:1 scale - not possible with local play and physical disc distribution due to the size/scale of data necessary.

Hardware is not that Sustainable either - having to research, develop, manufacture and distribute globally millions and millions of units, all built to the same spec, all built to a 'cheap' price point but still lose money on so Software is used to offset the 'losses', all barely adequate for modern games (they are ALL scaled down for Consoles and limit the 'design', the creativity, the scale/scope of the project etc).

Therefore, I can see why the Cloud/Streaming will become the 'only' option to play Some games in the future and the better way to play for other games. Possibly the 'smaller' scale games will be 'better' locally - no streaming compression, no online connection needed etc.

I am 50 too, I have been gaming since the 70's and can see a time when the MAJORITY of AAA games will be Online - relying on the Cloud to run at the level/standard expected. You maybe able to get close with whatever high-end PC parts maybe available, but whether or not you can play locally, have the storage to keep all those 'mega-scans' and 'meta-humans', all those incredibly high geometric assets, textures, material properties etc that these worlds are built with.

Point is, what was possible with the technology of the day is not representative of the Future - Most people accessed music through Vinyl, now its via streaming. Yes there are still some who want that 'nostalgic' vinyl sound, the 'physical' experience and Gatefold sleeves are part of that - but they are the 'minority'.

I can see Consoles existing for 'years' to come but they will not play the majority of the latest AAA games without an Online connection because they will require the Cloud to offset the 'limitations' of the Hardware. It'll be like owning a Switch - you'll get 'poor' looking ports capped to 30fps to play the 'few' AAA games locally, but if you have an 'online' connection, you can play those (and others) with all the 'bells & whistles' and at a much higher frame rate streamed directly to your console. Those without a Console can play all those games too at their 'best' but can't play if their internet connection goes down...

MS may well still make a Console - as an 'option' for those who want it, but most of the AAA games will still be 'Online' only to play - even if they are 'Single Player' only.

For the Majority, the choice will be simple - Pay $500+ for the option to play a 'few' indies, older gen games etc if my internet goes down or just stream all the games to ANY device and get the 'best' experience for a small monthly subscription fee - even my old gen Consoles so don't 'need' to upgrade.

@Luminous117 These are for TVs - non-smart TVs, at that.

@BAMozzy Even on fiber you're looking at 50-200ms round-trip, so 25-100ms input delay. Cable, which is most people, is worse. Way worse. Bluetooth itself can introduce 1-2ms. I like streaming a lot, but the latency is definitely an issue. Heck I can get latency in the double digits just streaming from my Series S to my phone on the same router + Bluetooth delay. I do like cloud, but that's an issue that still needs to be worked around for it to be totally console equivalent. I'm not being anti-cloud here, but there's definitely physics problems to solve. Verizon's E3 presentation last year was boring as heck but their whole "MEC" thing actually is relevant to all this, even if they weren't presenting it as related to this at all, and mostly focused on competitive mobile games.

Meanwhile yesterday I tried to play AI Som streamed to my phone and it kept garbling at the start saying "check your internet connection" while on gig fiber, and my local wifi could stream from my XSS just fine............ There's issues to be worked out... (AFAIK that problem is on MS's side and I've had that happen before when I suspect the datacenter is being bogged down.)

@UltimateOtaku91 Someday it will probably, but that's definitely not part of their plans now. Dedicated hardware and software is still their bread and butter, company-wide. Even where Office is cloud based, the local option is still available and expensive. WE might actually pivot to cloud at some point, though, as costs go higher for local and cloud gets better, we may find the price balance works well at some point. But not while there's only a small rotating library to play.

@Snake_V5 @Fishticon "pivot away" is the new "cancel." Sounds like they weren't happy with what they had and intend to produce a different device instead.

Wonder why they're cancelling it and what they intend to do instead?

@BAMozzy

Thank you for replying, but you've basically repeated what you originally said as if I had not already conceded that this would ultimately be the future, but just not in the near future.

You gave zero reasons why this will be soon, so the post seems superfluous to me?

Maybe im just being thick and you demonsrated abley why this is imminent, but it doesnt read l Iike that to me.

Regardless, we agree on the future, Im just saying its 15 years away and you seem to think its tommorrow

I'd bet my house that you are wrong on timing, but we wont know for a while, eh?

However it works and whenever it happens, as long as i get games that I enjoy, ill take em anywhere and from any company.

@Titntin I never said it was happening 'soon' - within a generation or two. I do expect to see more games over the course of this generation to require the Cloud in some way - whether its for 'storage' - like MSFS - to overcome some limitations or more complex, even maybe running entirely in the cloud. MS recently announced their Cloud Publishing for Cloud Native games - Kojima was rumoured to be making a Cloud based game and Xbox will publish. This could be the first 'cloud native' game or maybe it will be something else...

Regardless, the point is that some games 'this' generation will require the Cloud and only playable online. Whether you realise or not, MSFS is streaming in world data from the 'cloud' - hence the whole Earth can be flown with real time weather data - overcomes the Storage & Distribution limitations as the size of the game with the whole Earth would never fit on Bluray Disc or your internal SSD.

Designing games also includes things like File Size, having to try and 'compress' everything down to fit inside their 'distribution' container, don't want a massive download file, fill your SSD storage on just 1 or 2 games.

With Nanite using things like Mega-scans, meta-humans etc base assets that are of immense geometric size, detail and file size, with the cloud they can keep those assets at the 'highest' quality and stream them in. RT, AI, Physics and even the entire game running in the cloud doesn't seem that far off to me.

In fact, I think by the 'end' of this generation, there will be at least 1 AAA game that is native to the Cloud and others that rely on the Cloud in some capacity - only playable and/or offer such scale due to the cloud.

MS are committed to this 'future' - as proven by their Game Pass platform - a platform that is already bringing games that could never run on that hardware to mobiles, tablets, PC's and last gen consoles - thanks to streaming. Its 'proof' of Concept and that is why they can make a 'streaming' based dongle type device - to play AAA games without needing Local hardware to run it - they 'run' in the Cloud. Build up those gaming servers with much more 'powerful' hardware than you can possibly make 'millions' of individual consumer grade devices, complying to energy consumption, reliability, safety, economics, environmental and sustainability concerns (inc shipping units all over the world) and its easy to see why Consoles will become a thing for Nostalgic people whilst the 'majority' will be gaming via streaming as that will be how Devs can deliver their AAA games without having to scale back their creative vision, their design etc to fit within a 'Console' spec hardware format.

@BAMozzy.. and once again you seem to think I need some education in the current state of the tech, which I have never questioned. Indeed as a delevoper of over 20 years experience who has worked for Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Electronic Arts and many more, I am quite comfortable that my knowledge of and experience of this industry will at least equal your own, if not exceed it. You, telling me how development works is laughable.
I dont need or want your schooling, thank you. I simply wanted to examine why you are soap boxing about consoles being an irrelevant throwback when you acknowledge we will have 2 gens to come yet?
I'm as keen to anyone to look at the potential future this industry will have, but the most immediate future will be current gen and the boxes that follow. When these are going to be providing the games that I play for the next decade or more, then im not so keen to derride them or spend my time waiting for a future I might never see.

Thank you for your responses, but please dont assume I need some kind of education because I dont believe the console is dead.

Hmm… interesting. Depending how much and when this comes out, I might get one for the bedroom. It’ll be an easier way to play on any tv in my house.

As for the whole “pivot away” that has caught everybody’s attention. I don’t really think of it as a delay. First, it didn’t have a launch date. Hard to delay something that wasn't given a window to release. Second, this is all still in testing stages. MS has a shot to get something like this out to the masses. If it’s total crap, it’ll tarnish the idea of a device like this. Then when one comes along that actually is good, it might fail due to the premature release of the bad version before it. MS has to get this right the first time. They are taking their learnings and trying again. I’m glad they are not rushing just to give us a mediocre product.

@ArchieDog Upfront cost, sure. But considering each of you would need a game pass ultimate subscription to play over xcloud... It's definitely more expensive over the long term.