Xbox boss and Microsoft Gaming CEO Phil Spencer recently talked to Axios as part of a new interview, and some quotes that didn't quite make the cut have been doing the rounds since then, courtesy of reporter Stephen Totilo.
One of them is that Spencer wants Bethesda's Starfield to be "the most-played Todd Howard game ever" — Todd Howard being a Director and Executive Producer at Bethesda Game Studios. Here's what Spencer had to say:
“I love the Forza 5 and Halo stats... I love how many people played Psychonauts 2 vs. Psychonauts 1. So, when I look at the teams, when Todd and I talk about Starfield, it's: 'How do we make sure this is the most-played Todd Howard game ever?'"
"... Forza and Halo the last releases — those are the most played games in those franchises because we made them available on more screens than we ever have, through more business models than we've ever made them available."
It's not just Starfield, either. Spencer also went on to discuss the recent acquisition of Activision Blizzard and how Microsoft is hoping to make the likes of World of Warcraft, Call of Duty and Candy Crush more accessible in the future:
“Yeah, I want more people to be playing WoW in five years that are playing today. I want more people to be playing Call of Duty in five years, more people to be playing Candy Crush in five years, because we've made it more accessible to more people.”
It's going to be a tough task for Starfield to surpass the likes of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim in terms of player count, especially considering it's not coming to PlayStation as well, but it sounds like Spencer is up to the challenge!
What do you make of Phil's comments about Starfield? Let us know down below.
[source twitter.com]
Comments 28
I do think with Game Pass we need to have new metrics. "Most played" sounds great but it is deceptive. How long are people playing? What's the engagement after a few months? Look at Halo: infinite which has fallen off a cliff.
It's a bit like comparing F2P numbers to sales, not a fair apples to apples comparison really.
Regardless I hope he's right, my most anticipated Xbox release this year.
Arguably, its difficult to analyse what Skyrims actual 'player' count actually was. I know its been released multiple times on multiple hardware over the last 10yrs or so, but its entirely possible that many of those players bought multiple copies and played it again - not 'adding' to player counts, just adding to overall game sales.
Its like saying there are 130m+ Playstation Gamers because that's how many PS4's, PS4 Slims, PS4 Pros, and 'both' PS5 versions have been sold yet I alone account for '3' consoles (PS4, Pro and PS5) and I bet a good number of other Pro & PS5 owners had a PS4 and/or PS4 Slim as well.
Point is, its not going to be easy to determine how many unique players played Skyrim as sales alone would be highly inaccurate way to count...
@themightyant Player engagement is a good metric but also can't read 'everything' into that. The fact that H:I numbers are falling is no surprise to me. NOT everyone wants to play Halo MP at all so you will have all those 'campaign' players dropping off once they have 'finished' with the campaign and many others who perhaps just trying Halo because they can and not really getting into it.
MS will have stats on Achievements, time spent etc etc but the bottom line is more about Subscription growth. Cyberpunk and the GTA remaster both sold incredibly well, both bragged about their 'sales' figures but how 'engaged' were their players? How is BF2042 or CoD: Vanguard holding up today?
There can be many reasons why 'numbers' drop over time - especially as new games come out, new MP experiences to try, new SP games that occupy your time - especially if the MP is getting a bit 'stale' and in need of new content or waiting on 'features' like Forge mode or co-op...
@BAMozzy not thought too much on it but could they do individual Xbox accounts that play it? I always have to log in to an account to play. This is one of my most anticipated Xbox games along with Hellblade 2. No pressure on them then. Needs to be most played game AND worthy of my expectation!!
Also have to say again - I've never known a CEO to be so public so constantly. He seems to talk to media on a daily basis. Does he not have a job to get on with?!? His diary must be: Monday - speak with X about how great GP is, Tuesday - speak to Y about how this game is the best ever, Wednesday - speak to Z about how much of a gamer I am and I'm here to save gaming by buying every company I can 😁
And does PureXbox have a similar diary? Monday - write about Phil Spencer saying how great GP is, etc!
I really hope this turns out great and puts Bethesda back on the map. It’ll also be funny to see the PlayStation faithful lose their minds if it’s any good. #Bethesdahavenogames.
Then you better put WoW on console then, Phil.
@CrazyJF Not at all - Do you think games like the Medium or Outriders was played a 'lot' during the month of December? I doubt it.
Its 'success' is measured in two ways - both the number of people who started it and how much time they spent playing it. It doesn't matter if you play a couple of hours every month until you beat it or beat the game in one month and never play again - its still the 'same' data both played the game to the end, both spent a similar time in it. The person playing a few hours 'every' month isn't 'adding' a 'new' player trying the game...
Just like Cyberpunk or GTA Remaster can be 'successful' in selling their game, doesn't mean all those people played or enjoyed the game. At least you can honestly say that over 18m people played FH5 or 20m played Halo, even if the 'active' player base has dropped significantly. Its still a success -like selling 10m+ copies is still a success...
Also, as long as the players are playing 'something' in Game Pass - even if its no longer a 3 month old release - that's still a Success. Halo for example may of brought in some more Subscribers and seen more 'players' on MS platform, spending time and money and be regarded as a 'big' success for the month of December as the 'big' release of the month...
@BAMozzy Agreed. It was just an example. I guess i'm just tired of organisations only pulling out metrics that suit their current argument. (That's everyone, not just xbox, and not just in games)
EA wouldn't give investors Battlefield 2042 sales numbers was another one in recent days.
It's classic deception, and a lesson on how to lie with statistics.
@StonyKL That's one way, but then those people could have Playstation/PC accounts too and also played the game there.
Phil is a busy man but also makes himself available to do interviews etc and of course, has his own 'free-time'. If he chooses to play games and talk to 'gamers' as a 'Gamer' himself, as well as being 'active' on Social Media, there is a lot of opportunity for Journo's to find something new to talk about.
No doubt he also does ALL the things you'd expect him to do where possible (travelling and visiting studio's isn't easy these past few years) and works incredibly hard - but he also doesn't 'work' 24/7 and has a great team around him too...
Phil is always happy to get good PR, and metrics about number of players seem superficially impressive, but lose their shine a little if you think about the distribution model.
If I made a new movie and then gave it away and streamed it for free I'd get big numbers, even if no one ever bought it. I could then compare that with a film that had sold big numbers and claim mine was more successful? Doesn't make sense.
With a subscription service like GP the number of people who tried it is not an indication of much success to me, and I think people will eventually determine new metrics to show what's successful or not, possibly based on player engagement or something more tangible than 'they downloaded it'.
This is not simply for bragging rights, business decisions and game design goals can often be determined by what's successful, so getting an agreeable metric in place for subscription services is pretty important I would think!
As for Starfield, I know so little about it except the odd piece of concept art, its hard to tell if it will be all conquering or a damp squib. I'm hopeful it will be a return to form for Bethusda.
Its bound to get good numbers of downloads though, that's for sure!
@themightyant we all know Statistics can be chosen for what ever purpose you want. In the past, you could say that the 'commercial' sales was a reflection of the games 'Success'. GTAv, Minecraft, Call of Duty are all 'successes' - even though CoD year on year has dropped in sales, its still annually the most 'successful' game on the market - followed by Fifa.
Compare that to two of the most critically acclaimed games of last year - R&C: Rift Apart and Returnal - both cropped up a LOT in the Critics choices for GotY awards yet Returnal had sold 560k after a few months, and R&C just '1.1m' - no doubt more sold since - just the figures I could find. Based on this, Returnal is a complete Flop - well over 15m PS5's now and not even a million people have played one of the 'best' critically acclaimed games.
Forza Horizon 4 garnered 2 million sales in one week, with those numbers rising to 10 million as of June 2019, yet FH5 hit over 10m in its 'first' week with over 18m players after a few months...
You can argue whether 'Sales' or 'Player numbers' are most important to determine success, but I think for a Studio, reaching '18m' players, regardless of how many 'stuck around' to the end, considering some will dip in/out at least until the next one, would be a BIG success and a massive jump up from the last one.
As far as I am concerned, I much prefer the Player Number method and combined with 'Critical' reception as well as 'player perception' is the better way to measure Success. CoD, Cyberpunk and GTA Remastered are all commercially very successful games yet critical and player perception are not great. However, for the Publisher, these 'successes' don't make them want to 'release' great games and give their 'developers' more time to Polish -that's extra money on development for perhaps little/no reward as the game will still sell 'lots' in a mess...
To me, Halo: Infinite and FH5 are 2 of the most 'successful' Xbox Exclusives in years - both have had high player counts, both critically acclaimed with pretty high player praise too (at least Halo's Campaign). They must know that not 'everyone' who tries these though will enjoy them -that's just player preference, but at least getting them to try - many of which may become fans - is a success too...
I don't see how it could eclipse Skyrim, that game's on like 10 platforms...
It's been re-released like a dozen times everywhere on everything (even VR).
The number of players who try the game means nothing long term, it should be based on total hours played 10 million people can play game for an hour to try it whilst 1 million players could play it for over 100 hours, that's why to me these subscription numbers mean nothing for a games true player base and shouldn't be read too much into
Eh. I don't like that vision.
It should be I want Starfield to be the best Todd Howard game or the most finished Todd Howard game.
This just means he wants people to boot it up but not play it more than one hour. User booting up a game it's an almost useless metric.
They should've said concurrent players peak for forza and halo last month.
@BAMozzy That's fine when you have some some base for comparison. My point was that they chop and change which metric they put out each time. That's called cherry picking. We, as interested observers, can't really read too much into it as a result. Which is a shame, it leaves us less informed. (Though perhaps that's a good thing.)
I'm not sure what is considered a flop or not, but it will always be case by case. I'd imagine a niche game, that is a new IP, exclusive to a new system and with a smaller team and budget is not expected to sell the same as an expansive cross-gen AAA game.
Completely agree that reaching X million players is great for a studio initially. But when games are as simple to try as they are on Game Pass I think this number is now the least interesting and informative.
My point was we used to know where we stood with game sales, it was a bar we could always compare. Not the be-all-and-end-all certainly but a useful comparative metric. I don't think we really know where we stand now with engagement for games on Game Pass and perhaps need to establish the new equivalents. Or perhaps we don't and it just doesn't matter.
Don’t care about any metrics or numbers.
Just make a wow factor AAA game in all areas
That is 10/10.
By Christ the Xbox will need one by the end of this year as it seems a bit quiet in house studio wise on the big AAA game front.
@themightyant As I said, you never knew before how many of those Games sold were played (I still have a few games to 'start' that I bought) and how much time players invested. All we hear are 'sales' figures - X game reaches Y sales....
How is that any different from 'player' numbers - at least player numbers is more 'accurate' as that counts everyone who tries it where as Sales only count those who purchased.
Marketing can get many people to buy the game regardless and like I said, it has no correlation to 'quality' either but sales are what most Publishers use to determine what games they will want their 'devs' making next -hence Sequel after Sequel, hence big Licensed games (Star Wars, Marvel etc), hence trend chasing - battle royale games - things that they know will 'sell'.
Not saying 'either' method is better/worse for determining 'success' but actual player numbers does seem more accurate than sales as sales also count those that haven't played the game (presents, finishing the predecessor first etc). At least Player numbers are a representation of the actual number of people who 'tried' the game and whilst 'we' don't pay thanks to the Subscription numbers, you'd think the Studio's would get 'something' for every person that 'plays'.
Playground and 343 have both had their most 'successful' launches ever and reached incredible numbers. As I said, FH4 sold just 2m in its 'first' week yet FH5 exceeded over 10m and now has over 18m people to play. It took until June 2019 for FH4 to reach '10m' players...
Need better gamepass stats. How long are people actually playing and are games being finished. Also hard to hit when you take out playstation sales.
Lol, good luck since it's exclusive.
Uhhh what? Kinda hard to do that when you take away millions of Playstation owners. Are you high Phil?
Is that a WoW for console leak I hear, Phil?
Also, he wants Candy Crush to be more accessible on more screens. Does he also want to increase the amount of saltwater available on earth?
@Titntin @themightyant Sales is built on lies and innuendo....wake me when we have new information...
I really hate the "data driven" world. Everything is based on statistics and metrics. Everything. And we declare it a better world because "data doesn't lie." People rest comfortable in their absolute truth in all things as measured by data. Except it's also known that statistics can say whatever you want them to say, you just have to pick the right set of data. It's a way to prove empirically that almost any position on anything is unerringly true.
TBH, though, I don't even know that game sales told us much of relevance either. It told us the marketing engine for the game was on-point. It didn't necessarily tell us anything more than that at all. CP77 crystalizes that. It's one of the best selling games, period. I imagine less people engaged with it than The Gunk.... Lots of similar examples. The overwhelming TLoU2 launch sales that then fell off a cliff and stayed there. Poor Returnal (and Deathloop) that has dumpster fire sales levels but the people that did buy it played it a lot..... ALL the metrics are pretty much tabloid fare unless you're in the sales department and counting the returns.
But what sucks is they make game/support/sequel decisions based on these garbage metrics.
@BAMozzy yeah, I agree with you. The numbers don’t always tel the full picture.
On the flip side, my PS4 is used by three people. And one copy of Skyrim might pass through four peoples hands because of resales whole one person may own it on every platform. Etc.
@Krysus not at all - those they 'lose' from PS5 gamers who refuse to play anywhere else can be offset by all those people that can now play via 'streaming' from Cloud - all the 'last' gen Xbox consoles that wouldn't have a version, all those PC/Laptop/Tablet/Mobile gamers that wouldn't have the hardware to run it etc.
Playstation 5 is a 'small' part of the 'entire' gaming landscape and doesn't account for that high a percentage of the total number of Gamers and most (if not all) have a device that they could play it on anyway. ~17m PS5's sold but 2.5bn+ gamers world wide.
Xbox 'exclusives' are available EVERYWHERE (PC's, Xbox Consoles, Android/iOS mobile/tablets) except PS/Switch hardware. Its available to far more gamers now than it would have been so losing a 'few' million who would only buy on PS5 is offset by the potential reach of Game Pass. EVERY PS5 owner owns, or at least has access to a device they can use already to play Starfield - even use their DS5 if they want!
More people play Candy Crush every month than on Playstation and Xbox combined - over 270m play Candy Crush Saga every month so a 'few' million less 'sales' for the option to reach 'EVERYONE' inc those PS5 owners if they 'really' want to play as they likely already have the 'hardware' to do so is what MS is referring too. If you 'really' want to play Spider-Man, you have to buy a Playstation, want to play Starfield, well you can play ANYWHERE (except PS/Switch) with Game Pass and if you don't want to play via 'cloud', you can get a 'cheap' Series S and GPU (from £21a month) to play if you really want...
Watch it be the new fallout 76 level of a joke.
Hope it has a third person option.
I know many will hate but... give me an XBox version of Candy Crush that has no IAP garbage!!! I actually like match 3 games, and I like the level based nature of Candy Crush, but I hate the limited life [bleep] and the nickel-and-diming, and sadly almost all similar Match 3 games are the exact same formula.
I just want to play a similar game where I don't have to worry about opening my wallet every time I bump into a hard level!
@Clankylad It worked for No Man's Sky......
....I jest....
@BAMozzy You're discounting the 100mill+ PS4 owners. This AFTER Phill said he didn't want an Exclusives war and how bad exclusives are for the industry.
Granted, I like P. Spencer. A lot. As an exec, as head of Microsoft games, that he plays games regularly. But sometimes it becomes political speech with him. Which isn't surprising, but does remove some of that, he's one of us! Mentality.
No lie. I'm disappointed in him for this war he started.
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