Xbox Exec Admits PlayStation Has Been 'Out In Front' With 'A Certain Kind Of Game'

As someone who owns all of the consoles, I prefer Nintendo exclusives. Sony's offering kind of seems a bit too much focused on third-person story based games and I can only take so many of them... When it comes to racing exclusives though, Microsoft has no competition in my eyes.

I get the idea but I think that third parties have done that genre/style better than Sony. Sony's exclusives are generally overrated. What's true, though, is that you can't rely on multiplayer-focused games only and that seems why Microsoft acquired so many studios. Microsoft needs things like Viva Piñata and Banjo-Kazooie more than anything else. The family-friendly (I don't like the term but you know what I mean) universe is poorly represented on Xbox. That's the thing Microsoft should focus on right now.

By certain type of game does he mean quality GOTY contender games? Sony know what consumers want and have dominated the PS4/XBO generation. Hopefully in a few years Xbox exclusives will rival their PlayStation counterparts. BTW not a “Sony pony” I have both consoles.

@BlueOcean I completely agree with you. Microsoft just really has Minecraft to compete in the family friendly genre. I'd love a push into Viva Pinata. I'm secretly hoping Everwild is comparable to VP. Like you are cooperatively building this giant forest with friends and family.

@Amin1998 I think this year, Microsoft has the edge over GOTY quality games with Psychonauts 2, FH5 and Halo. Might get a tech award getting Flight Sim on consoles for the first time. I left Sony this generation though because their exclusives aren't really what I'm particularly looking for.

I really don't think MS should be trying to do that at all. The games "everyone can play" with extreme production values is certainly successful for Sony, but trying to duplicate that isn't going to generate the same success for anyone else any more than duplicating Smash with All Stars BR, or Kart with Destruction All Stars, worked out for Sony. Or Wii with Kinektimals for MS.... A certain type of game becomes synonymous with a certain platform's experience, and another platform copying it ends up looking like a me-too. SNES was all about the platformers and JRPGs. It never quite took off beyond Sonic on Genesis/Megadrive. Genesis was all about arcade action and sports. It never quite took off on SNES.

Xbox has games that have "universal themes, a big world people want to get lost in" with what Obsidian, Playground, and Bethesda are putting out. Even Sea of Thieves, though that's a very different type of game (one I still don't 'get'.) Much, much, much bigger than Sony's invisible-walled faux open environments. What they don't have is the "well realized characters and really high production values." But I'm not sure the movie-script game with extreme set design is something that could work out for Xbox, or Nintendo, or even Epic. That's Sony's shtick. It works for them. Maybe it even makes them accessible enough to always be on top in sales. It's a reason to buy a Playstation if you're into that. But Xbox is better off offering reasons to buy an Xbox instead of offering an alternate Playstation that will likely just look like a poor imitation.

Right now Xbox will be the home of most massive WRPGs, and that's a big niche. Not as universal as what Sony sells, but sometimes it's better to corner 3 or 4 deep niches than cornering one fits-all market. That single market can vaporize overnight. The multiple niches can't all fail at once.

Even RDR2 which most seem to compare to a Sony game is a very wildly different thing that really doesn't compare to it. It has the high production values, but the design and world couldn't be more different. RDR2's greatest flaw (other than the horrid, horrid, shameful, loathesome, incomprehensible control scheme and Brain Dead Revolver gunplay) is possibly that it has TOO much player agency where you can basically break the game, accidentally and derail your experience (I shot the sheriff... But I didn't shoot the enemy......). Sony game design focuses on offering next to none, with a thin illusion there's much, to ensure the game follows a tightly scripted sequence in a highly directed fashion so the presentation is always spot on.

Psychonauts 2 probably comes close to a Sony game design, though it has some very welcome PS2-roots vibes to it, where it maintains a tight focus, and doesn't go to deep into trying to create an illusion of more freedom than it allows, and doesn't focus overly much on dramatic presentation.

@Halucigens Psychonauts 2, Forza Horizon 5, Halo Infinite and Flight Simulator are all great candidates for game of the year.

Microsoft should be a little bit like Nintendo in that sense. They already have the best racing games and the best shooters (that I also like). I think that Fable is going to fill a huge gap as well. Fable and Viva Piñata are two of my favourite games and I'd also love a new Banjo-Kazooie.

Doesn't matter how old I get if they release a viva pinata game I'm on it day one even if it's not on gamepass

@Halucigens I agree Microsoft had a great year this year (finally) but Sony puts our bangers every year. This year with R&C and Returnal. Next year will be interesting with HFW, GOWR and GT. Will be interesting to see what Microsoft have to offer.

There's a reason why Sony's games are always game of the year contenders, those who say Sony's games are rubbish or not good are just salty.

That will change when Bethesdas games start coming such as Starfield, elder scrolls and fallout, but at the moment Microsoft's other exclusives just don't generate enough hype in a larger scale.

And in all honestly I'd say Nintendo's games are even more anticipated than Sony's.

@Amin1998 was Returnal a “Banger”? Don’t me wrong I agree Sony puts out a lot of good games. But that game has a niche audience and unlike Hades had lot of issues plaguing it. It also didn’t really sell as well as other Sony properties.

As someone who owns a PS5 and Series X, the thing Xbox has in their favour is a strong variety of genres.
They need to continue to lean into that and not try to emulate PlayStation.

I'm hyped for Horizon FW and GoW Ragnarok, but GT7 doesn't look to have caught up with Forza and R&C: Rift Apart, while visually stunning, didn't hold a candle to the story telling or platforming of Psychonauts 2.

@UltimateOtaku91 Nobody said rubbish but perhaps just not as good as some other people think they are?

@NEStalgia I totally agree. The scripted, cinematic games in a pseudo-open world with accessible yet somewhat frustrating gameplay is what works for Sony. It's a big one fits-all investment and even though just a few of them become huge sellers they all contribute to PlayStation's reputation as a high-profile interactive experience. I think that the DualSense is just another part of that vision and that Sony is doubling down this generation.

They shall be the front once Avowed releases.

@BlueOcean I didn't mean anyone in this chat I just meant in general especially those on twitter

@UltimateOtaku91 Twitter is a dumpster fire. There are some of the worse sides of the fandom there. ._.

I think Sony's games are more blockbuster in terms of feeling heavily cinematic and the majority love that, I mean I compare playing the last of us to watching the walking dead (which isn't a bad thing)

But, that can't be said for horizon zero dawn, its just a pure fun open world game to me and more freedom and gameplay than the rest of Sony's games

I agree in general, Sony does a great job of making compelling cinematic games. But for me, that's also something that has made he happily stick for the most part, with Xbox.

I don't like cutscenes anymore.

Maybe I'm old now, but as soon as a game brags that it has hours of cinematic, I'm probably out. My gaming time is limited these days, and being asked to spend 20-30 minutes sometimes sitting and watching, isn't fun for me. Most games have cutscenes, but Playstation games sometimes lean too heavily on them IMO. Plus, having all 3 major console makers using vastly different approaches is amazing. I hope Microsoft never tries to directly copy Sonys path, and continue to carve their own.

@NEStalgia
"(other than the horrid, horrid, shameful, loathesome, incomprehensible control scheme and Brain Dead Revolver gunplay)"
And I thought I had issues with the Rdr2 controls... well said.

They already have that game you can get lost in its just some time before we see it.

Bring me Fable.

@mousieone I would say so. It reviewed well and I played it and really really enjoyed it. It honestly felt like a next gen game especially with the haptics. On the issue of sales how can you compare a full priced game with game pass.

@BlueOcean Someone on Push Square once said they think of Sony's games as "games-adjacent." I like that description. It's an interactive entertainment experience, not necessarily a "video game." It doesn't make it a worse product, and it's easy to see why it would win mass-market appeal much easier than a traditional video game, but it shouldn't really be compared directly to a "video game", it's a different sort of product. And may not be the best fit for someone looking for a video game.

After all, even on Playstation, the majority of owners, statistically don't buy Sony games. They do buy EA, CoD, GTA games.

@UltimateOtaku91 Sony's current output is, it's not rubbish but it's not "special" either. The only thing special about it is how much money they spend on visuals and production. They're decent games, overhyped and overrated, largely because they're overmarketed. Marketing works, and Sony's great at that. But the actual games themselves could have come from any company. Horizon, GoW, Uncharted, even, nothing about those games do I play and think "wow, this magic could only have come from Sony". They could be EA, or Ubisoft, or THQ, or 2k, or Warner. Moss is probably the standout PS game I played in the past 5 years that truly felt like a Sony game. And ironically it wasn't actually a Sony game at all. Raw theatrical polish aside, there's nothing about them that doesn't feel like a 3rd party multiplat. Look back at PS from PS1 to PS3 and there's so many unique titles that truly only could have come from them. Special gems that never get stale. Almost everything Nintendo could only have come from Nintendo (for better or worse.) Bethesda games really could only come from Bethesda. There's a unique stamp of something special and unique there. Sony's games are just more polished editions of a generic game template these days. It's sad. PS4 started it and it progressed steadily. They may say the games grew up and got more mature, but from my perspective, instead, they got more safe, started copying existing other media more exactly to purchase acceptance. Sure, there's Returnal, the overpriced highly niche game...but sales are dismal on that thing. It's a bone thrown to the faithful, not a serious product for them. Souls as a remake of an old game, BP doesn't work cheap I'm sure, but it's still an old game from the old Sony given fresh paint, not their current output. Heck, they killed the studio that helped originally make it.

I understand why their products are market successes as they are. And I can accept they're made with very quality polish. And they're not at all bad games. But they've lost that "special" something that made PS games extraordinary before. Gene Siskel wannabe critic's be darned.

@BlueOcean Honestly I feel like family friendly isn't represented on PS anymore, either. That and their departure from japanese games is probably a lot of why I'm so ambivalent about them right now. Sure, I need my PS for Japanese games that only come to PS or PS + Switch, but those are third parties that are on PS because it's a default, not because PS is special. The PS is a "box to play Ys on" but it doesn't make the PS itself feel like a special platform the way it used to.

Sure they have Ratchet and Astrobot, and Sackboy. But they're treated as B-franchises, and that's about all they have left. And we won't see Ratchet or Sackboy (or probably Astrobot) again until the latter years of the console, if that. There's Kena and the like but those are Indies, I'm not sure that really counts. If MS were to resurrect some of that Rare content they could really overshoot PS in the family category. Though that means directly taking on Nintendo's base, which is probably why nobody even bothers. MS could eat Nintendo for breakfast in cash value, but who wants to spend money taking on Pokemon?

Any article like this produces the inevitable "I don't 3rd person games because Sony are so good at them" comments - but I don't think that's what Matt Booty was meaning. I got the impression he means there aren't the stand out must play games on MS portfolio right now. There are a crazy amount of those on Sony platforms right now - whether people claim they are over-rated or not, there is a reason Sony have a higher install base and this is it.
I also agree it's not a case of creating a MS version of HZD, LBP, Dreams, R&C, GoW, LoU, UC, GoT, Spiderman etc as they already exist. They need their own stand out must play games. They have Halo, GoW, FH but until they buy out all the 3rd parties those games will take time to get there.
Eventually games like Elder Scrolls and Fallout will start to become these examples, and for all we know eventually Assassins Creed, Far Cry & Watchdogs once they buy Ubisoft and so on..

@Royalblues the only reason forza horizon 5 isn't nominated in any of the game of the year awards is because its releasing so late in the year, if it released last month im sure it would be a nominee

@NEStalgia
Have to agree with your there Microsoft should not copy Sony or Nintendo there is no point it will just be duplication and probably not as good.
Especially games like Mario Kart, Zelda those games and characters have been built over decades.
You could duplicate some of Sonys games and I think Microsoft will try and have their uncharted or even horizon zero dawn.
What Xbox really needs is their own truly great games with identity and AAA quality.
Forza horizon always springs to mind.
Gears of war yes, but definitely needs to grow and develop more and should have done that more already by now, the same goes for Halo it should have grown more by now, but switched studios and lost itself a bit.
Xbox have missed opportunities with gears and halo to make them more must have titles and given them bigger identities of being true gaming game legends.
They won’t ever get to say Mario kart status but they could match Sonys greats and be better with the developers being managed correctly and focused.
They certainly have the studios to do it now.
It depends on their management and the direction they want their studio games to go in.
For example you could create 2 ok games in 5 years or 1 massive AAA legend game if successful in 5 years.

I do believe MS could use big single player exclusive title, o w that could span several releases. Xbox has some really good IPs like Halo or Gears, which are really awesome, albeit they do feel like it's mostly about multiplayer, and story is there as an addon

@Amin1998 I wasn’t comparing to GP but other Sony games. People calling Haptics being next gen is kind of funny considering Nintendo’s had HD rumble has been out for for a while. And reviewing well is fine but I feel like to be a “Banger” it needs to actual have mass appeal and good scores and few glitches out of the gate. I mean I’ve played plenty of indie games that review quite well and no one would say “Banger”. Like I said, plenty of Sony games for that bill, but I just don’t think Returnal is that game. I mean most of Sony’s bangers are games people remember for years after… I don’t think Returnal is something people will be talking about after GOWR and Horizon 2 drop.

@NEStalgia
They only time family got together on PS4 was with power of knowledge and the sequel.
Xbox one no family get togethers at all.
Wii, Wii U & Switch the most Mario kart, established as the family game for decades.
Also a few Mario platform games.
It’s similar to the point you made earlier about what console and what games.
So over the decades of gaming and some family gaming. Nintendo first place easy, Sony a far of second and Xbox zero.
That is real life family and friend gaming personnel experience of about 20 years in the UK.

@Royalblues I know the joystick award nominees have already been announced, don't know if that's seperate to the game awards show that Geoff Keighley presents.

And yeah Nintendo don't seem to make bad games at all lately and breath of the wild was something else, still waiting for pokemon to get that treatment to get to that next level.

@UltimateOtaku91 @Royalblues I though the GA nominees weren’t out yet? Anyway DICE is actually the big one for the industry and Hades won. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-04-21-hades-wins-game-of-the-year-at-dice-awards-2021

@mousieone yeah i believe DICE is the biggest one, tbh there's too many of these game awards, golden joystick, DICE, game awards show. I suppose these shows don't really matter as we all have our own personal game of the year, I mean mines tales of Arise but that won't get nominated

@mousieone Maybe it didn’t sell as well because it is a new IP and a PS5 exclusive. We all know how scarce they are. The haptics of the controller actually do feel next gen and if you play a game that supports it you’ll know what I mean. The game must have impressed the Sony bigwigs because they acquired the studio.

I always purchase both consoles upon their release, but only do the mid-term upgrade on the Xbox as that is my mainstay console; so I bought the Xbox One X when it released, but not the PS4 Pro. There is a reason for this, and it is pretty simple. I currently own in excess of 675 games on the Xbox, but I only own a handful of games on the PlayStation.

On the PS4 I played:

1. The Last of Us (which I had already played on the PS3)
2. The Last of Us 2
3. The main 4 Uncharted games
7. Uncharted The Lost Legacy
8. God of War
9. Detroit Beyond Human
10. Ghost of Tushima
11. Death Stranding
12. Horizon Zero Dawn

So in the 7 year cycle of the previous generation, I played just 12 games in total on my PS4. I've had a PS5 since the day is was released, and so far, only played Demon Souls Remake on it, and whilst I have bought both Returnal and Death Stranding Dicrector's Cut, I have yet to play them. I also have my effectively free copy of Oddworld Soulstorm too, but I'm holding out to play that on my Series X.

I buy a PlayStation to play the games I cannot play on the Xbox. I would love it if these kind of games also came out on the Xbox, but as PlayStation would continue to have it's own exclusives, I would still want that console too. I just don't really get my monies worth from the PlayStation, but that is a conscious choice...

@Amin1998 Returnal didn't sell well because it was never going to sell well. Being PS5 exclusive didn't matter, most of the games that are on both are selling mostly on PS5. But it was an unknown IP in a niche genre, with a niche presentation, with a narrow appeal only to the core, and even there only to a portion of the core, and on top of that it was priced as a AAAA blockbuster. Gears Tactics wouldn't sell at $70, and neither should Returnal have. It's a shame because it's kind of a cool looking game, even though I'm not really into the niche, but there's no way I'd pay a dollar above $40 for it, and even that's pushing it. At the end of the day it's a roguelike shmup. That's not a AAAA game, even if it's more fun to play than most AAAA games. It was never going to be a "big" game.

I think the game was probably mostly a "test" of Housemarque's ability and compatibility within the Sony environment before purchase than it was a product intended for mass success. Deathloop is a "bigger" game than that.....and that's an MS game now.

@StonyKL ", there is a reason Sony have a higher install base and this is it. "

I think Jim Ryan would agree with you, but I'm not convinced either of you are right. Look at the PS install numbers, then look at the PS Studios game sales numbers. There's a massive gulf there. Look at what really sells across that PS base. It's sports games, it's GTA, it's CoD, it's addons for F2P games. Heck, it's even Minecraft. The PS Studios games really make up only a niche portion of sales across the hardware install base. So of most of those people didn't buy a PS to play PS Studios games, why did they chose PS? Simply, it's the most popular one because it's the most popular one. "Everybody has one." "Everybody's friends are already playing on it." "It's the one that was on the commercial." "It's the one I had before, why change?"

Exclusives certainly have an effect, but the real Sony game market is kind of it's own niche, and it's a smaller niche than the Nintendo game market. The real effect of exclusives comes from the marketing standpoint ("This platform has so many big games! It must be the best!") and more importantly building that market originally ("I can only play FFX on PS2, I need a PS2!", "I can only play TES6 on Xbox, I need an Xbox") but once that market is built, inertia carries the adoption.

If you weren't a gamer, and wanted to play CoD with your friends, which would you buy? Playstation, because your friends probably all play on Playstation.

If you weren't a gamer and wanted to play a football game which would you buy? Playstation, it's the one in the ads, so it must be the right one.

If you were a casual gamer over the years which would you buy? Playstation, because most likely it's the brand you once owned 20 years ago.

You don't have to give a fig about Horizon or Returnal or Kratos. It's going to be the obvious console choice. As the dominant installed base, even if Sony shut down PS Studios and only sold 3rd party games, and continued with their barebones afterthought of an OS, they'd still probably be the #1 console. The exclusives game really matters more for MS right now who needs to use them as leverage to lure people into their own system, until such time when they become the default choice.

Just make some great exclusives, whether they are multiplayer heavy or cinematic focused single player. Make the games and they will come.

@UltimateOtaku91 @Royalblues They are mostly. The nickname for them is the Keighleys. I butchered that. The GAs is the show with the biggest production value and gets the most eyeballs, but the industry tends to hold more weight to the DICE awards.

@Amin1998 well @NEStalgia was a little less nice about what I was getting at but there you go. The game is a fine game but it fails in a lot places where I would think a “Sony Banger” would need to be at.

@mousieone LOL being nice about Sony flaws isn't what I'm known for around these parts But what's really a shame about Returnal is it actually is an interesting product, and I wish they'd release more experiments like it, as they used to. But as long as their marketing and sales department has carte blanche to run amuck like that with absurd pricing, I think they're taking an arrow to the knee before even running the day 1 patch.

Can a Keighley be burned for heat? It has to have some value or purpose.

If Xbox can nail all of its upcoming first party games, I think they could definitely be on par if not slightly ahead of Playstation. New Fable, Gears, Halo, Forza, Perfect dark, Everwild, Avowed, Outerworlds 2 have so much potential, not to mention the Zenimax exclusives. Then hopefully find more studios to revive franchises like Banjo, Viva, and Killer instinct. Sony will always dominate the third person action adventure genre they just have it perfected. But xbox could have a much wider diversity of excellent games.

@mousieone well I really enjoyed the game and thought it was a truly next gen “Sony Banger”.I honestly hadn’t felt haptics like that till I played returnal and truly commend Sony with what they’ve done with the duel sense.The way the story played out was also unique and kept me hooked. But each their own I suppose 👍🏼. In terms of pricing I don’t feel ripped of at all. The game cost me £65 at launch and I’ve played and had fun for well over 30hours and still haven’t finished the 3rd act.

I really like most Sony exclusives and I absolutely would like XGS to release some games like that: single-player, 3rd person, narrative heavy action-adventure.

What I don't like about Sony exclusives is that most of their game fit the same mold. Of course they make games in other genres, like Gran Turismo, MLB: The Show and LBP, but overall I think Microsoft is pursuing a more varied selection, which includes FPS, WRPG, RTS, Sims, etc.

Sony hasn't put much out that interests me specifically, but clearly, it's been working for them.

I love the uncharted and last of us games but they wouldn’t be a dealbreaker if I went MS only. My favorite Xbox exclusives are Horizon and Gears. Nintendo has Zelda and Mario. Then the third party games fill in the gaps. If I had to choose just one console I would be content with the Xbox, thankfully we don’t have to choose.

I don't know, a lot harsh criticism of Sony's current output I don't think is justified. Say what you will about the quality of the games or the depth of their design, Sony exclusives generate a conversation because they're all character-focused. When people talk about about PlayStation exclusives, they're talking about Aloy, Joel and Ellie, Miles Morales and Peter Parker, Ratchet and Clank, Nathan Drake.

How well-written any of these characters are can be debated. But the fact the average player can put a face on these games goes a long way. Microsoft's lineup seems to float between masked heroes (Master Chief, Doom Guy), blank-slates (your created hero in Bethesda, Obsidian, and Fable games) or no character at all (Forza, Flight Simulator). It's a harder sell to the casual consumer. It's part of why Marvel movies have all their heroes unmasked. Even a blank slate with a unique design can do wonders (Nintendo's roster of beloved mascots).

It's not just the amount of money Sony puts into these 'AAAA' exclusives, it's the money put behind a marketable face. It's what has me intrigued about the upcoming Perfect Dark game on Xbox Series. I have a distinct memory of Joanna Dark from the N64 classic that stays with me to this day and I can't wait to see how she is reinterpreted for a modern audience.

Again, I'm not debating the depth of these characters but I am highlighting the importance of their looks and their voices. I can't tell you how many 'Boy!' jokes I've heard referencing God of War or how incredibly cosplayable Aloy is (WWE wrestlers wearing her costume to pay-per-view matches!) or how goofy fun it is to see Ratchet and Clank crack wise.

Don't get me wrong, I really love my Series X (lucky enough to have one too) and look forward to their future lineup. Raz and the Psychonauts are a good start. More please. And I'm confident the talent behind the various Xbox studios can not only create a slate of characters that can give Xbox equal footing to Sony and Nintendo, but they'll assuredly inject some deep mechanics and design behind those faces. That is something I definitely want to see from Microsoft.

I like Sony first party exclusives but I don’t remember ever being hyped for one. Nintendo first exclusives, on the other hand tend to hype the hell out of me.

@NEStalgia A lot of what you said makes perfect sense and I really can't disagree, although it would be nice if they could have one or two series in that kind of a game.

No, they shouldn't abandon what they have managed to potentially build up, which like you said, is the new home for big WRPGS. Those can provide a similar experience in terms of a big world, great storytelling, and great characters. Still, it wouldn't exactly be a bad thing if they dabbled there a bit as that only expands on the already expanding variety of their catalog, which will finally have some volume in areas other than racing games and shooters.

At the very least, they need to put more effort into creating games with great characters that you genuinely miss once the credits start rolling. I know that is kind of what he is saying, but that and the storytelling are why Sony's games are considered so good, and that's something they need to have too regardless of genre. That's why I still love playing Sony's games, but Microsoft finally doing that too would be amazing. If they can do that in other kinds of games, even better as Sony's bread and butter is 3rd person action/adventure. Like I said, it seems to be coming. Hopefully they actually deliver and the future ends up being as bright as it seems like it could be.

@Royalblues @armondo36 Because Xbox and Nintendo games are more "gamey". Sony's, or more accurately, Sony's PS4/PS5 games are theatrical experiences that you only play once because they are shallow as games. Yes, some people watch the same film 10 times so if they love Uncharted's story they'll probably play Uncharted 10 times as well for that only reason. But, even as stories or as films, they're not that special.

@NEStalgia "Someone on Push Square once said they think of Sony's games as "games-adjacent." I like that description. It's an interactive entertainment experience, not necessarily a "video game." It doesn't make it a worse product, and it's easy to see why it would win mass-market appeal much easier than a traditional video game, but it shouldn't really be compared directly to a "video game", it's a different sort of product. And may not be the best fit for someone looking for a video game".

"After all, even on Playstation, the majority of owners, statistically don't buy Sony games. They do buy EA, CoD, GTA games"

"Sony's current output is, it's not rubbish but it's not "special" either. The only thing special about it is how much money they spend on visuals and production. They're decent games, overhyped and overrated, largely because they're overmarketed".

Exactly!

@LocalPenguin Yep it's a very interesting thread. I still have to read the last comments.

One anecdote. State of Decay 2 was poorly received at launch, probably because of the glitches and the lack of content. I played it recently on Series X and it was one of the best gaming experiences I've had in the last two years. Sea of Thieves was also so-so at launch but I've played that game before it was commercially released and I still play it now if my friends are playing and it's magical. There are tons of games and better than those two but it's just two examples. State of Decay 2 is very gamey and plays great on Series X, probably not so much at launch on Xbox One. I also want to finally try Grounded and many others. I am finishing my main Gears games first playthrough. I'm not liking 5 (I'm in act 2) as much as I thought I would after 1, 2, 3, Judgement and 4 but 4 is one of the best games of the last generation, in my opinion. It does everything right. 1, 2 and 3 are brilliant, as well. Xbox games don't get the attention they deserve! And that's why I didn't get an Xbox or Xbox 360 but Viva Piñata is one million better than Animal Crossing. Not exactly the same genre but still, Nintendo and Sony seem to get all the compliments.

@Wakkawipeout @KilloWertz I think that the new studios are supposed to cover that. One of those stars exists already, Joanna Dark. Rare has a ton of characters that I like and the other studios can make their own kind and also use some of Rare's characters unless they want something more serious. The possibilities are endless with so many studios!

@KilloWertz You can't miss Cortana. She's on your desk nagging you about attachments every day.

Seriously though, yeah I think the memorable characters will come easily from the RPGs. Protagonists are diy but the whole joy of an rpg is the cast of npcs. It's not the same mascot scenario, but you still care about the characters in the world. Doesnt help marketing of course.

@Wakkawipeout In a way, your argument confirms the criticism. It's a product engineered for a focus market. It works from a business sense on the mass market. But many of us are here on the green page because we're not that market, and are grateful an alternative concept exists that appeals more to us. Microsoft's focus is basically aligned with classic pc gaming. Nintendo's is aligned with classic console gaming. Sony kind is went a new way and aligned with a multimedia entertainment portfolio.

Though honestly, Jak, Sackboy, Astro, Ratchet, Sly are recognizable mascots. Drake, Ellie, and Alloy are 2D cardboard cutouts like Marcus. Miles and Peter are Disney so that's a non starter any more than Indy and Sparrow are Microsoft's. I think Sony just MARKETS their brands better. The characters are mostly lame but they're marketed relentlessly until you love them. -=NEW=- Kratos is the exception, as, while Nolan's Drake is very fun, he's not a standout. Judges Kratos is basically Greek Teal'c and that's hard to beat.

If all their characters were that engaging, I'd be singing their praises, but while RCS's Ezio is engaging and delightful, he and Drake are similarly forgettable. Either way hanging the games legacy on how lovable the protagonist is is really the secret sauce, that kind of exemplifies what's do shallow about the design.

Metroid dread is like a 10 hour 2d platformer. And every inch of it is memorable, even with a silent masked protagonist. Sony USED to have that same appeal in their games. And dread was made by a smallish Spanish indie, not even Nintendo main R&D!

I honestly want Sony to head back in that direction, but they won't, the new multimedia thing is good business. Returnal is the closest they came, but the price was a joke and as a rogue, it's appeal is limited. Killing off Japan Studio was the nail in the coffin of clever ideas and doubling down on "what sells". Maybe there'll surprise me. I hope so. I miss old Sony.

@NEStalgia True, as one of my favorite games of the last generation is a near perfect example of that. Only near since all but a handful of them are actually playable. That would be Final Fantasy 7 Remake, where the cast of characters are very memorable, even more so than the main character Cloud.

Obsidian will be the most likely to delivery on that front for Xbox considering they already have experience there. It's just that The Outer Worlds was waaaaay less popular, but they could deliver at some point in the future with a cast of characters that ends up being quite memorable. The Outer Worlds had some memorable characters, but not quite on that level.

Still, Microsoft should not ignore having a mascot or two that's not from their original group. Given how well received Psychonauts 2 has been, not embracing the Raz character and making even more games in the series would be a huge mistake. We'll see how it goes, but they do need to make longer running series that aren't Halo, Gears, and Forza.

@NEStalgia I'm not sure that exactly true. I understand its a typical view on this site that people only buy Playstations because everyone else has one and only true gamers buy Xbox's, however the 360 generation the sales figures were much higher than PS initially and people didn't follow that trend. When the Xbox was more popular people went out and bought PS3's so that at the end of the generation PS3 sold more. i think its a disservice to gamers to suggest they don't buy what they want - especially as a roughly 50/50 split on Xbox360/PS3 resulted in a huge swing for PS4 generation. I honestly believe it was the games that did that and the only difference last gen was Sony had those incredible exclusive games while MS didn't.

Also the sales figures for games like GoW, LoU, Spiderman, HZD are around 20 million and probably more now giving an attach rate of roughly 1 in every 5 consoles. Am assuming other tentpole PS games will be similar or close enough.
My take is thats what Booty is hoping to replicate. Multiple exclusive games that sell at 1 in 5 attach rate giving these people a genuine reason to pick up an Xbox.
However its just my opinion and you could be right.

@Wakkawipeout “ Sony exclusives generate a conversation because they're all character-focused.”

I 100% agree with this. It’s one of the reasons that I’m not a big Halo guy. I’ll play it and enjoy it, but since Master Chief never takes off his mask, it’s hard for me to relate with him. It’s thought to write emotionally impactful moments when you can’t see the characters’ facial expressions. Gears of War is the series that competes best with the Sony games. Fantastic graphics and performance, well written story, emotionally impactful moments, I think it has it all. Of the Xbox franchises, Gears has most of the characters I care about. Shout out to Ori for being emotionally impactful, as well.

Being lucky enough to own ps5, series x and switch I have to say that Nintendo are still the kings on this front with sony 2nd by a large margin. That said all 3 systems have an excellent choice of top quality games

@Woodinghal can I get a list of those Switch Games? Just picked up an OLED and want to experience those top tier Nintendo games.

As for Xbox I'm still waiting to be excited by games for the system, but I'm watching and ready to add a series model to my game room when that happens!

I completely agree with Matt Booty. There isn't really any difference between Gears of War and Uncharted/Last of Us in many ways but the major difference is that Gears is 'sci-fi' and those games are more 'grounded'.

Sony may well have an 'advantage' when it comes to third person Cinematic games as Sony are also producing Movies and TV that may of helped with the writing and directing of their games.

Gears 5 has the visual quality and performance of any of Sony's 'finest', Both Forza franchises have dominated the racing genre in terms of 'awards' etc - beating Sony's Gran Turismo series and beat Sony on FPS games - Halo beating both Killzone and Resistance into obscurity as well as providing more online co-operative and competitive experiences too.

Point is, Sony doesn't have ALL the 'best' games and only really excels at one specific 'style' of game - the 'grounded' 3rd Person Cinematic action/adventure story driven game. Their games are very much centred on Earth with 'ordinary' leads - not some Sci-fi genetic created Super soldier. Sci-fi settings are not as popular in general...

So I whole-heartedly agree with Matt Booty - Playstation has found that template that works for them and have more than doubled down on producing 'more' of them but have limited their diversity.

If you want to play Sony's games, buy a PS. Same with Nintendo's games. I'd rather have studio's making the games they feel passionate about in the way they want the game to play rather than be forced to make a game to 'tick a box'...

It's a long read but I for one have thoroughly enjoyed this comments thread, cheers guys.

I hope Xbox doesn't try to copy the Sony formula, just let their teams make the games they want to make. Passion = quality. The Sony studios make great games already, all Xbox has to do is support its own studios to get the same results.

There's more than enough to be hyped about at the moment, coming from all three console sides

@MightyDemon82 Breath of the wild, xenoblade chronicles 1 and 2 are three of the best games I have ever played.

@BAMozzy You bring up a super important point that I think everyone, myself included tend to miss. THEME. It goes along with my comments on "focus tested, market researched" games, but I missed the center issue of theme! As you said, their games are very grounded, modern, current, local. They would test well as relatable to the broadest of mass markets as a universal theme that can fit everyone. From a business standpoint, that's a perfect market focus test. Even their mythical GoW universe has been reigned in to feel like "modern people in a practical world, despite the presence of magic and talking heads." That would test well across a broad market. But it doesn't mean the most "universal" content is the "best" content. It means it's a highly marketable product for a mass consumer profile. It's also about when I started losing most interest in what Sony's producing, and I never fully realized it. inFamous was amazing (I'd pre-order inFamous 4.) Empire City was dark and interesting and curious with mystery and intrigue. Spiderman is Manhattan. F Manhattan. It's boring freaking mall-ified Manhattan brought to life on the video game screen. If I wanted to be that bored I'd just go to boring freaking mall-ified Manhattan. It comes with the exciting bonus of urine-tainted falafel. MS is giving me high fantasy and sci-fi. That's a lot more interesting (and nerdy, and hardcore, and whatever.) Plus "grounded" in the extreme with hard simulators of the actual world. Plus Grounded. Sorry, couldn't resist.... Zombie apocalypse, fortune hunters, samurai (ok that one's awesome), a much more "raw natural world" mythology than past GoW entries that ignores the world and focuses on a personal father-son story for the mass feel appeal. All very grounded stuff from Sony. All Hollywood safe zones. Makes sense. Makes sense it's profitable. Makes sense it doesn't really interest me strongly, even where I somewhat like it.

I used to buy Sony for the same reason I buy Nintendo: Bizarre fantastical worlds and experiences.

@KilloWertz I wouldn't say no to more Raz as a mascot. I know Double Fine moved onto new things, but I think that's become a surprise phenomenon of a series. It would be a shame if it stopped there. It took 20 years to get into its groove, and it finally has. It's also criminal they do nothing with Banjo other than license it to Nintendo. Maybe it's a 90's mascot, maybe Sony's moved on from all their 90's mascots and it's worked, but Sega and Nintendo milk 1993 like no tomorrow and walk away with bank...and now MS just makes some royalties on Nintendo milking their own 90's mascot....

@BlueOcean and some people are really into that, which is fine, but I play games....to play the game, not to watch it lol

@themightyant
Yes, I mean in terms of first party titles.
Xbox covers a great variety of genres, which to me, is a strength they need to lean into.
If they start trying to emulate PlayStation with focusing too much on 3rd person narrative action games, they won't compete, simple as.
PlayStation has nailed that genre and can't be challenged in my opinion.

@blinx01 Funny thing is just a few years back I was arguing with @BlueOcean that Xbox had a very limited set of genres in their games and PS had a huge variety. And it was true. But Sony really tightened the noose around just the most profitable sure bet formats since then, while XB through their purchasing just exploded into a bunch of variety, and the tables really flipped.

I don't think Returnal is the solution, but I think if Sony did more of that risk taking in variety (and priced it accordingly, or the games were bigger than a rogue), they'd look a lot more appealing. That was kind of Layden's point before he left, really....

@NEStalgia Yeah but as we have noticed, they still have to pick up Banjo, Viva Piñata, Conker...

@UltimateOtaku91 when they announced Metroid Dread, i was in on the spot lol. which reminds me....Microsoft should totally give the Ori studio money to totally blow out the 3rd Ori game. that is essentially Xbox Metroid. if Will of the Wisps isn't as good as Dread, it's VERY close.

@Woodinghal Breath of the Wild was going to be a purchase but I've picked up Mario Odyssey, The Ori collection and Animal Crossing.

Although with Animal Crossing my wife has basically nicked the switch from me for the last 2 days. I've looked into Xenoblade and they sound brilliant and who doesn't love a JRPG!

Microsoft's biggest problem continues to be that they have a habit of mishandling the IPs they own. Sony would have locked up Cuphead by now, not to mention Sunset Overdrive. if they owned Banjo Kazooie's IP, we'd be playing the 3rd one by now. We'd be getting trailers for Crimson Skies 4 lol.. They would have paid Remedy to retool Quantum Break (play it while skipping the TV show bits...it's actually fantastic without those!). they don't need to worry about what Sony is doing: they need to do a better job with the games they already have. if they want to emulate anything, emulate Sony's diligence and patience with their Franchises.

...and make MechAssault 3, for goodness sakes.

@armondo36 I don’t think Cuphead is on the table to be bought ever. That studio has other ideas. I can’t say more here but 100% they wouldn’t sell it. Sunset Overdrive is most likely similar.

And Sony wouldn’t be making a 3D platformer either. Minus Mario they don’t sell well let’s consider Crash 4 as perfect evidence.

Not that I don’t think there is a mishandling IPs but those examples aren’t not great. I supposed the real test will be Fable/Perfect Dark if they can successfully revived those.

Sony makes good stuff. I think we can all agree.

The general sentiment they make too many games in one hyper-specific genre - I agree with that as well as a firm fan of Sony overall. I want to see what they can do in other more niche genres.

They DO still dabble in arcade, story-lite experiences, just not as much these days. Demon's Souls, Destruction All Stars, Sackboy... I don't think they fit the theme you guys are talking about here.

Also, there is an argument to be made 3rd party devs fill that role well enough anyways.

I think Microsoft should be Microsoft. I'm playing through Psychonauts 2 and that just "feels" like a Microsoft property, warts and all. I mean it as a total compliment, it takes me back to the original Xbox days in a way. Pretty sure Psychonauts wouldn't have that old school feel if Sony made it, and that would be a shame.

Microsoft should find its own way and distinguish itself, I see them as totally capable of doing that and releasing some great games down the road. They just need a little more time to warm up.

@mousieone They wouldn't have had to buy the IPs, i said lock them up. Cuphead launched on Xbox platforms. Do what Sony does, write a check to keep it there once the glowing reviews were out. if Sony owned Banjo-Kazooie...you honestly believe they wouldn't be making them? they would have made at LEAST one or two to justify the purchase of the IPs. Same with Sunset Overdrive. no WAY they shouldn't have been smart enough to greenlight at least one sequel. that was just dumb.

@NEStalgia Talking of themes, the one thing I have noticed with a lot of Sony's games and that is their 'main' protagonist. They are all 'strong' and well defined Characters with strong personalities.

From a gaming perspective, that's putting the Player into the characters life playing 'their' story etc. Even the third person view makes it seem like you are more an observer than actually 'you'. You can't really put something of yourself into these, but you can still feel like you know these people (or someone like them). I struggled with the Last of Us because I didn't really like Joel or wanted to relate to him.

When you compare Nate to Master Chief for example, the difference is clear. MC is certainly much more a 'blank canvas' for you to put a bit more of yourself in and of course, the First Person view also puts 'you' into the game, seeing the world as 'you' would if you were the main character. Halo is 'you' becoming Master Chief and saving the planet, Uncharted is following Nates adventures to get the treasure...

A lot of MS games don't seem to have that 'strong' and defined personality for their Lead character. They have more of a tendency to be either created by the player or relatively bland so you as a player can put as much of yourself into them as you want or not.

Again, it may be something to do with Sony's Movie/TV background - making games like Movies with strong personalities to tell the 'story'. MS from a 'software' background seem more likely to want to put (more of) the 'player' into the game and make them the 'centre' of the Story.

Even if the story, setting and game-play loop are basically the same, that's still a noticeable difference...

@BAMozzy Absolutely, that's a really good point. Not too different from what was already said about narrative experience, but an important enough distinction.

I suspect that in the large consumer entertainment market, "most" people can't or don't want to really get into the role play of first person and can't quite use their imagination like that, which is why the familiar, cinematic, watching a character's story format resonates so well, and sells so well. First person, putting yourself into the role is a much more imagination-driven format, and probably appeals to less people. But for long-time gamers were much more familiar with that idea. "Link" after all, was named because he's the literal link between the player and the world, a blank slate that becomes "you". So the immersive first person format really goes back to Miyamoto's designs in the 80s. It's classic gaming. But even for Zelda, Aonuma made like much more "third person over the shoulder" in some ways. Link remains mute, however, ensuring "he" is really "you."

Microsoft, coming more from the PC environment, and still staying grounded there, seems more connected to the PC golden age where it seemed like everything was going to go first person. And largely, everything was always first person. Doom, Quake, Myst, Zork. Even with it was played on a DOS command line, Zork was first person. "You are standing in an open field west of a white house with a boarded up front door."

PC has been first person, with yourself as the protagonist, more times than not from the beginning. Even RTS games. C&C had the live action cast talking to YOU, the commander. Same for Wing Commander. XWing series, the briefings were written to you. Wizardry, the original WRPG/CRPG, all in first person. That's kind of a tradition among PC gaming, and it makes a lot of sense Xbox gaming, which is also simultaneous PC gaming, would continue that tradition, even if not intentional, it would just be design tradition among the types of studios with a long relationship with MS they tend to buy.

Sony, absolutely, I think their film know-how has become a big part of their game design and business model. It wasn't always that way. They once had a very Nintendo-like design template. And in hindsight, Kutaragi, the Nintendo-obsessive and one time collaborator, was probably a big part of that. Once he left during the PS3 era is when the "Sony Pictures" mentality started to really drive the product direction.

Even Assassin's Creed games, while they have defined protagonists, are third person, narrative, and over the shoulder, most of the time, outside cutscenes, the character gets out of the way and simply becomes your "Link" and you have total agency over the world. Only at specific story moments does the character become narrative. Sony's games tend to ensure the narrative is continuous, even during gameplay. That's a big function of the ubiquitous sidekick, be it a person in tow, or an AI/voice over comms. But it's always the characters communicating with each other, never the characters communicating with the player as the character. Kratos and Boi are talking with each other while you watch. Cortana is talking to you, the last Spartan.

Very good point on theme!

Edit: That's also probably part of why I prefer games that are designed like books (most Japanese games, and many WRPGs) more than games designed like movies (most action adventure/Sony type games.) A movie shows you passively the actions of others. With a book, even if it's "third person" I tend to read the protagonist from a first person perspective, same with narrative, text driven games. I'm not playing as Kiryu/Majima/Ichiban. I am Kiryu/Majima/Ichiban, even though they have their own personality and are over the shoulder action, I have total agency over their actions. When I play as Kratos or Alloy, I don't feel like I'm Kratos or Alloy, they do their own thing without me.

@themightyant thanks for the recommendations. I own a fair few of those already on PS5 but Mario Kart is a definite buy, as is Astral Chain (love platinum games), I'll have to research into the breach as it's the only game on your list I've not heard of.

@MightyDemon82 spent lots of hours on animal crossing. Usually 30 to 40 in bed before I go to sleep. Xenoblade 2s combat system once you are about 10 hours in becomes absolutely incredible. I suppose the closest game on xbox is tales of arise but it is still basic in comparison