Topic: General Xbox Series X|S Thread

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/ps5-soc-die-shots-reveal-rdna-1...

Eh whatever. PS5 still has games I wholeheartedly prefer over Xbox's so I couldn't care less about the technicalities

After a year full of misinformation, lies and deceptions they are now trying to hide behind lame irrelevant BS excuses and pointless justifications. 😂🤮

Pretty much
It was already assumed that Sony's console would be comparatively behind when looking at the availability of the dev kits to Microsoft's

That didn't stop the whole BS excuses 😁

I'm confident that Sony will release a pro model to catch up, as with optimisation, their console is lacking 🤣

Edit:
Not to mention, that with the RDNA 2 features that Sony had foregone, does make for some huge improvements for past and current titles.

Interesting. The question is then why are we not yet seeing the difference? Too early in the generation?

Too early.
Optimisations not implemented yet, considering the time it takes for development...

Also, developers have had the Sony dev kits for some time now, compared to Microsoft's offering.

@Insightful Pretty much all games are running in a B/C mode - not taking advantage of many (if any) new technological improvements to the hardware - just relying on the 'brute force' of these consoles as opposed to being fully tuned and optimised utilising all (or at least most) of the features.

The vast majority of games right now are running the Series X like a XB1X+ and the PS5 like a PS4 Pro+ - just using the raw processing power these consoles have. Its not surprising as these games are built with the older gen in mind. Things like the decompression of assets may well still be done by the CPU because that's what the older gen consoles have to use and because the CPU is much faster and more efficient.

Hitman 3 doesn't look 'way' better on Series X. It has a small resolution advantage with a slight boost in Shadow Quality that you only notice in a Side by Side. Even the difference between the Series S, with its 'lower' texture quality as well doesn't look 'way' worse - especially not on a HD TV without the added 'upscaling' blur a 4k TV adds. The difference between most PS5 and Series X versions is less than the difference between XB1X and PS4 Pro and less than most of the XB1 and PS4.

Back Compat games are different again because for a lot of games, they were optimised for XB1X/PS4 Pro. The settings they used for the older hardware seems to be the limiting factor so we see a bigger difference.

On paper, the RAW specs of the PS5 is closer to the Series X than the Pro was to the X or the XB1 was to the PS4. Of course there is a LOT more to a system than the RAW specs - how all the components synergise with each other as well as how 'easy' it is for the Devs to optimise their games for the hardware, use all the features and schedule tasks to be most efficient.

Of course I expect the Series X to have 'an' advantage more often than not in numerous metrics - like resolution or visual settings. Performance, if the devs do their Job right, should be very similar as both systems will target the same frame rate so if the devs do their job right, the performance 'should' be the same. On paper, the Series X has quite a lot more processing power so could put that to use on maintaining a slightly higher resolution or other visual settings.

Of course, that's on 'paper'. What we don't yet know is how all those 'parts' of the system synergise, how easy it is for devs to utilise the hardware to maximise its potential etc. We don't yet know how the Geometry Engine compares to the Velocity Architecture for example or whether 'different' approaches to design (smaller but faster GPU vs larger but slower GPU) will make a 'big' difference - at least in 'some' if not all games. We don't know if Sony/MS have other 'built-in' tricks to offset perceived advantages either - for example, Sony went 'big' on Data throughput with their SSD speed, MS's approach was to look at the Data and be much more efficient on what Data is actually needed (Sampler Feedback) so only stream that Data.

Both have Pro's and Con's of course but right now, we cannot say categorically that Sony's decision to go with more Data bandwidth is a 'better' choice than MS's - after all, that Bandwidth is always there where as MS's solution relies on the system/devs to be much more efficient on what Data is needed. For example, an area may have 10GB of Assets in it and on Sony's system, that 'could' be transferred in under 2secs compared with over 4secs on Xbox. However, in that area, 5GB of textures etc are not visible - either because they are obscured by other objects or only part of the texture file is being used - so Xbox only streams the 5GB of data and thus negates Sony's advantage - but only if the Devs utilise that feature. That's just one example of how a 'different' approach to the same issue of transferring Data quickly enough could end up giving a very similar 'end user' experience. People expect Sony's system to load faster, to stream assets in quicker etc (minimise texture pop-in) because it has a much faster SSD but the difference could be 'minimal' if Sampler Feedback is utilised fully.

As someone with a PS4 Pro and XB1X (as well as PS5 and Series X, PS4 and XB1), I am also less bothered about higher actual pixel counts than I was back in 2013. Over the course of the generation, we have seen more methods of improving image quality above the actual running resolution of the game. DLSS2.0 is simply incredible - how it can look like 4k from just 1080p. Also Chequerboard or temporal reconstruction can look 4k too. I'd take a 1080p or 1920x2160p with DLSS2.0 or CB reconstruction over a Native 1800p - even Native 4k in a lot of cases - especially if that enables higher frame rates and/or higher visual settings. Even if the Series X has a 'higher' average pixel count, doesn't mean it will necessarily look better either - a CB4k may well have a lower average pixel count per frame than say 1620p but looks better on a 4k TV assuming all other settings are the same. Point is, some 'advantages' can be offset, or even bettered. I'd rather have a DLSS 1440/60 with all the visuals turned up to max than a native 4k, unstable 60 and some visual settings turned down to try and push the frame rate up a bit more. Technically, the Native is pushing out more than double the pixel count every frame and therefore would appear to have the advantage but overall, the visual quality of the DLSS 1440p would exceed that.

Anyway, I look forward to the upcoming years as it will be fascinating to see what devs create with these new consoles and technology in mind. It will be interesting to see how the Hardware holds up to different game designs and whether or not, the game design is built around a specific feature - like Data throughput - how they compare on both systems. Its entirely possible that some games could be better on PS5 or have some advantages that are 'more' important to you as a gamer than just resolution...

@Insightful Let me give you a TL;DR - “We just gotta wait to find out more”.

Nice one Uncle Phil 💜

So I was watching the roundtable earlier and I think it's just so cool how much interest Phil Spencer is showing in the Japanese market. He was asked which place he would like to visit (where the ZeniMax studios are located) and he wanted to visit Tokyo where Tango Gameworks is. He wants Xbox to have a larger presence in Japan and I love that. Hopefully this trend continues because I would love to completely switch over to Xbox eventually as long as the games I love (i.e. JRPGs like Persona) are coming to the platform as well.

"But, if you're an Xbox customer, the thing I want you to know is this is about delivering great exclusive games for you, that ship on platforms where Game Pass exists. And that's our goal, that's why we're doing this, that's the root of this partnership that we're building, and the creative capability we will be able to bring to market for Xbox customers is gonna be the best it's ever been for Xbox after we're done here."

This is like music to the ears. ☺️

UK retailer GAME has the Series S in stock.

According to insider Jez, it looks like Microsoft is planning some incredibly impressive exclusives and acquisitions with big third party studios down the line which will be mind-blowing if it ever comes to fruition.

https://youtu.be/OFQDyLAr6C4?t=2h41m30s

@LtSarge I am sure the fact that Zenimax had a Studio based in Japan was a big incentive to Microsoft. I am also sure that having a studio that makes games for iOS/Android (Alpha Dog) was a big incentive too.

@Senua The one thing that was clear was that all games will come to Game Pass on day 1 - and that includes Deathloop and Ghostwire when they eventually release on Xbox. OK so it might be a year after releasing on Playstation, but its still 'day 1' of availability on Xbox.

If you are on Playstation, things are not so clear. Obviously MS have stated that ALL prior contractual agreements are observed but as we don't know exactly what contracts are in place, not just with 'platform' holders, but investors, partners etc. We don't know if LucasArts for example made an agreement with MachineGames to make Indiana Jones on all available platforms but then Disney were OK with Insomniac and Crystal Dynamics using Spider-Man on Playstation only. Yes I know Sony have the 'movie' rights to Spider-Man and Disney/Marvel wanted to use Spider-Man in their movies so may have other reasons to allow this. Starfield too could have contractual agreements in place too - all these games were announced 'before' MS owned Zenimax.

The Legacy aspect is rather open to interpretation. On the one hand, Games like Doom, Wolfenstein, Fallout, Elder Scrolls etc all started on PC first!! Yes some were ported or reimagined for Consoles but Doom 3 for example was a Microsoft Exclusive - until the BFG edition. In the last 10yrs, all these games have released on Playstation too even if MS had marketing (or more) deals. Legacy could therefore be taken back to the beginning, the roots of each franchise or past couple of Generations. There will be Gamers who started playing Elder Scrolls, Doom, Fallout etc on their PS3 so may see these as having a legacy on that platform.

Another aspect is that Fallout 76 and Elder Scrolls Online will continue to be supported on Playstation. If those games are on that platform, then it makes sense to release ES6 or a Fallout 5 as you have an established community for those franchises. If the next Wolfenstein or Doom is a final part in a trilogy, I would be surprised if they don't release on PS too. Whether any of these release simultaneously and without any 'bonuses' (early access, timed exclusivity etc) to MS or not, we will see but they will all be on Xbox and the games will be built with Xbox in mind.

Even if NO game was exclusive, its still a major plus for Microsoft gamers. All games available day 1 on Game Pass, Games built with Xbox as the Lead Console and built more to its strengths etc. There is never going to be another Generation where MS gamers are kept from playing games from any of the Zenimax studios. The worst it can get is a game releasing on all platforms on the same day with no 'bonuses' (no early access, no timed exclusivity, no 'bonus' content - cosmetic or otherwise) for MS gamers. You will never have to wait a 'year' again for games to release on Xbox. In other words, the worst it gets is that you get the same game at the same time as others - but you still can benefit from getting these via Game Pass. This has stopped Sony buying up 3rd Party Exclusivity (timed or otherwise) from these Studio's as well as ensure that MS has a more competitive range of First Party Studio's to compete with Sony.

However, we do know that 'some' games will be Exclusive so MS are not lying when they say Game Pass is going to be the Best place to play all of the future Zenimax Studio releases. Not only will you get every game Day 1, but the fact that these will also be built with Xbox as the lead Console should be good news too.

I almost wish at this point that Halo: Infinite is transferred to ID Tech - Doom: Eternal looks and runs very well on Base Xbox One considering the hardware and quality of the visuals at 60fps and considering how static and lifeless, let alone the very dated look the game-play. Collaborating with ID/Machine Games could really help Halo...