Topic: General Xbox Series X|S Thread

This reminds me of rumours that PS5 couldn't run Resident Evil VIII as well as expected. Developers were expecting a console capable of 10.28TFLOPs as advertised by Sony but that's the theoretical figure. It will be interesting to compare Valhalla running on both consoles.

@Senua Difficult to say if that is the final spec for that and what else is going on. 1440/60 or 4k/30 may sound 'poor' if compared to some games we have now that can match those specific metrics but we don't really know yet whether they are using any RT for example. There wasn't really any easy way to confirm or disprove it. Pushing things like draw distances, LoD's etc - as well as increasing shadow resolution, fog resolution etc would of course need more resources too.

The Spider-Man: Miles Morales demo was running at 4k/30 too - with Ray Tracing enabled and I believe will have a 4k/60 option yet Fifa 17 ran at 4k/60 on a PS4 Pro so why can't a PS5 run Spider-Man at 4k/60 with RT?

Realistically, its best to wait to see what like for like games run like and how they compare on visual quality settings. It seems that Assassins Creed: Valhalla was only going to be 30fps on early trailers - until they confirmed it will be 4k/60 on Series X. Whilst they haven't been so forthcoming on the PS5, it seems that on PS5, it will also be 4k/60 - https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/looks_like_assassins_...

That would then make it seem odd that a remaster of an old game can only run at 60fps at 1440p on the PS5. A big open world game like AC: Valhalla can but a game essentially designed to run on a PS3 can only manage 1440p/60 - even if it has had a visual upgrade. Of course we don't yet know if AC:V is Native or using some form of Temporal Reconstruction for example and until we have BOTH systems to compare like for like, its difficult to know whether the Series X would do much better IF Demon Souls were to release on it, and if so, how much better.

The only real way to get an idea of how both consoles compare is to look at multiple games that run on BOTH systems, built by the same developers etc. The developers could have decided to keep Graphical Settings as high as possible - maybe some RT, opting to drop resolution to 1440p to double the frame rate rather than drop visual settings, turn off RT to keep resolution at 4k and hit 60. We don't know whether the Series X would do better...

Dirt 5 I think will be an interesting game too. Its obvious that graphical settings will need to be sacrificed to run at 120fps. Pushing the GPU to render a frame in 8.33ms will be interesting to see what sacrifices are needed on BOTH systems and how stable those frame rates are.

@BAMozzy Some fanboys online are claiming that this is a “true next-gen” title unlike Cyberpunk will not be even close to as demanding as this. They are basing their claims on the fact that Cyberpunk’s minimum PC spec is very average but not considering that in PC everything is supposed to scale across hardware configurations and moreover Digitalfoundry has already found out Cyberpunk absolutely needs hardware RT to look decent.
Let’s see how well this one runs on RTX 2080. Like I said I would expect atleast checkerboard, Dynamic Res Scaling or even better DLSS 4K60fps on a top end next-gen console.

@Senua Well you won't get DLSS on a console - that is nVidias tech and only available on the RTX cards and games that support it. The RTX2080, with DLSS2.0 could potentially blow both of the new consoles away in output resolution (not internal resolutions), visual settings and/or max frame rates by using DLSS.

So far, AMD have NOT confirmed their version of DLSS, if they have one and how well it works. Where nVidia are already on their next RT cards and DLSS 2.0, AMD are yet to launch any GPU with these features. MS has DirectML as part of the DirectX 12 API but we will have to wait and see what, if anything AMD and the Consoles offer to compete with DLSS. I am hearing that AMD's RDNA2 GPU's are very competitive with the RTX30 series and some may beat a 3080 on straight up rasterisation but RT is not as efficient - anyway, we will see soon as their RDNA 2 cards are due soon.

Minimum spec is meaningless on a game - Cyberpunk is going to release for Xbox One - the 'weakest' console (not inc Switch) on the market. You have absolutely NO idea of what 'settings' are on offer and what compromises are needed to run on that system. Draw distance and density of Objects are two areas that can really save on GPU and CPU resources. The Witcher 3 had a setting for Foliage and on Low, you got a lot less - as seen on Switch - and you may find that signs and other details 'missing' on weaker hardware just to get it running. Point is, you don't know what is necessary to run on those 'lowest' specs - let alone the resolution and frame rate. Maybe the fact that Cyberpunk is well optimised and has a wider range of settings means that the game can be scaled down enough to run on such minimal hardware. No one expected the Switch to run the Witcher 3 - yet it can and for all we know, the minimum spec PC may run Cyberpunk with all the settings set to the lowest (inc res and res scaling) at ~30fps but may even look worse than the Xbox One version.

As far as I know, Digital Foundry were impressed with the visuals before Cyberpunk was shown with nVidias Ray Tracing and they do expect that you will need a high end current RTX card to get that level of visual yourself. It was stunning but the game was impressive before that...

@Senua I dont understand why digital foundary microscopic anylazing of games sways peoples opinions so much. Before the demonsouls analysis video , everybody was saying demonsouls was a absolutely stunning looking game, and now DF says its 1440p 60fps, its suddenly a very unimpressive visual spectacle!!. The game is stunning period. Looks like CGI infact.

Infact the only bad thing about bluepoints work is that Fromsoftware must be tearing their hair out! No way elden ring will look anywhere near as good as bluepoints remake!

@BlueOcean are you saying Demon souls is visually unimpressive?

@Bazzawilson I don't think anyone would say Demon Souls looks unimpressive - certainly not in its environment and characters. Some animations are a bit off/dated BUT that could be more down to legacy than design.

However, I bet no-one was also watching on a big 4k TV - the TV they will be playing on. Not to say it won't be 'more' impressive without compression and with HDR too - but compared to the 4k/30 option, it may look a bit softer around the edges and compared to other 4k games coming too.

Its not the fact the game looks bad that is the issue, its that the game has to run at 1440p to achieve 60fps. There is an expectation that games will be 4k/60 this generation - much like there was an expectation of 1080p at the start of the current generation and Sony fanboys were very quick to use Resolution metrics as a way to belittle the Xbox One. Sometimes it seems that how good a game looks is not the issue, its the metrics that a system can run it at. Last gen, it was Xbox that was delivering a 'lower' resolution on games - whether they looked 'good' or not, whether they played well or not - the fact that it wasn't running at 1080p was the issue - amplified then when both consoles were out and direct comparison's could be drawn.

As I stated above, we really don't know the full details of this game. Having to drop to 1440p to get 60fps may not be the full story - 1440/60 with RT for example is more impressive considering the compromises often needed on high end PC's to run at 60fps with RT and fortunately, they have DLSS to help as well. Its obviously premature to draw any conclusion at all from this one game and I can expect that fanboys will be slinging mud at either side over petty details - All the power but no games - 3rd party games running worse etc etc - same as last gen. Seemingly more concerned with what the competition is offering/doing than what their preferred platform will be offering/doing. Seemingly more concerned with making comments either deriding the competition and/or defending their preferred platform. One thing is certain is that Demon Souls will run at a higher resolution and frame rate than is being offered on Series S/X.

@Bazzawilson Even Ori running on Nintendo Switch looked absolutely visually stunning to the point that the incredibly talented engineering team at Moon Studios had to create a custom version of Unity just to optimise on the weak hardware.

Just a stunning looking lone title doesn’t change the fact that people have to settle now for a last-gen 1440p60fps performance expectation on a 500$ next-gen console with a “revolutionary gamechanging architecture”.
Like I said I would expect atleast Checkerboard, Dynamic Res Scaling or even better DLSS-like solution to achieve 4K60fps on a higher end next-gen hardware.
Even the visually stunning RDR2 checkerboard 4K on PS4Pro looked blurry compared to X1X...imagine 1440p on a 4K display.Since 1080p and 4K are the two dominating TV standards so 4K TV owners will absolutely see difference.

Anyways I see you have created your profile just 2 hours ago. Welcome to Xbox forum.

@Senua Just find it bizarre that people hang their hats on DF videos. The human eye would never have guessed Demonsouls wasnt running in 4k, before their analysis.

It baffles me why people are more concerned about numbers, than what they see and feel.

@Bazzawilson Well then people should just stop shifting goalposts everytime when it didn’t suit their narrative. Once upon a time it was all about terraflops/resolutions, then it turned into games, then it was shifted to cross-gen problems and then back to numbers again etc. Ultimately it has turned into an utter mockery when people are constantly fed with ever-changing narratives about what to expect from whom and when!
Regardless it’s just not about numbers, be rest assured if you had a 4K TV you would absolutely see a noticeable difference in details and the 125% drop in rendered pixels for obvious reasons. Again welcome for joining the Xbox forum today!

@Senua I have a 4ktv. My onex and pro look fantastic through it. Thanks for the welcome

Demonsouls is the most next gen looking game I've seen gameplay of so far....that's all I'm saying 1440p or not.

It’s a great piece of engineering given the fact that only a single slow silent fan is providing all the cooling.

@Bazzawilson I've always been interested in Digital Foundry videos since before the Wii U was released. It's suspicious how the narrative has changed lately. When PS4 launched, it was all about 1080p resolution, when Xbox One X launched it didn't matter that it achieved better graphics and performance because it didn't have any games other than Halo, Gears and Forza, then when Microsoft revealed their cross-gen plans, PS5 was the better choice because Series X would be held back technically by Xbox One and now that PS5 games are going to be published for PC and some for PS4 and PS5 is less powerful than Series X, it doesn't matter either because games will be optimised for PS5 regardless of not being built exclusively for PS5 and PS5 being the weaker console. Xbox has 23 first-party studios, still has "no games", apparently.

I've watched Digital Foundry's video of Demon's Souls remake running on PS5 on my OLED 4K TV and, obviously, it looks and runs much better than the PS3 game and loading times are drastically reduced but I'm not particularly impressed by the graphic and the game runs at 1440p60 with dropped frames with no ray tracing enabled. And we're talking about Bluepoint, one of the best studios remastering games and there's barely any AI in the demo. When the CPU of PS5 is under heavy load, the GPU runs at a lower speed, they can't run at the top of their performance at the same time and that's what worries me about PS5, that both CPU and GPU are variable, less powerful than Series X even when they are fully overclocked, not to mention that when the CPU needs more power, the GPU must use less and vice versa.

@BlueOcean well if you arent "particularly impressed " with demonsouls graphics. Then I feel this generation is going to disappoint you. Be cause I guarantee you , that you wont see much better, on either ps5 or series x . For along time. A year at least!

The game drops like 3 frames once with the knight shield bash. Its basically flawless.And ray tracing was neither confirmed or denied too.

Yeah we will see about that since Cyberpunk is already around the corner. It doesn’t really matter which lower end platforms it will poorly scale to but Digitalfoundry has already confirmed that game absolutely needs hardware RT to look atleast decent. Given the fact that it’s going to be easily the biggest, densest, dynamic ultra-detailed open world RPG for atleast next few years I will expect it’s going to be both CPU/GPU intensive.

@Senua next gen cyberpunk upgrades are months away. We just getting slightly improved version of the onex version of CP for the time being. I'm going to wait for the full next gen patch, before I buy it. Could be waiting till next march/april though..

@Bazzawilson I have always said that next-gen games won't be ready for launch on PS5 and Series X and that's why Sony rushed Spider-Man as a cross-gen spin-off game instead of a full next-gen game. I am not saying anything bad about Demon's Souls graphics but how can I be impressed with a next-gen remake of a PS3 game with little AI (CPU use) in a demo that runs at 1440p (like Series S games) and even then it drops frames? If it was 4K60 or the demo was busier in CPU terms then it would be impressive. You could say that it's the combination of low CPU usage, low resolution and imperfect performance what gives this mixed impression.

Valhalla is not next-gen but cross-gen but the Series X/PS5 version is available at launch unlike Cyberpunk so we could see the first comparison at launch.

@BlueOcean could you tell demon souls was not running in 4k, before digital foundary told you?

Dont hang your hat on the numbers. Trust what your eyes see.

@Bazzawilson Yes, I usually can tell the difference unless it's a cartoonish game with flat textures 😁. Anyway, exciting times ahead 😉.

Check this out. This is just mind blowing. Also remember this Capcom title is running on backcompat.

https://youtu.be/eS6m-fOyZmc?t=11m20s