It's as sad as it is funny watching how Sony is treating 7th gen. I started with ps3. It ran most 3rd party so badly I got a 360 despite being a typical pony that thought MS was instantly a bad console. Then spent the rest of the gen buying almost everything on 360... It was just nicer to use despite feeling less "premium" or rather less home theater.
Jump to 2021 and Sony is making it impossible to play games you bought then even on original hardware, and truly impossible on current hardware. And Microsoft is jumping through hoops to make as much of it as possible playable on current hardware plus on original. Sony might be defendable if not for the fact they're the only games seller with that policy other than perennially abusive Nintendo.
I hope them shutting the stores down still means they're actually planning something better when it comes to BC or some form of games preservation
I know realistically speaking BC isn't necessarily a system selling feature but there are a bunch of PS3 games that are basically about to go MIA for the rest of time after this all goes down
@TheFrenchiestFry You know as well as I do that Sony doesn't give a rat's tush about BC or game preservation. They watched Nintendo nuke the Wii shop channel and realized they could save a few pennies by doing the same with PS3, PSP, and even the Vita (because Sony's higher management has wanted people to forget the Vita exists for a while now).
Currently Playing: Fields of Mistria (PC); Cookie Clicker (PC); Metaphor: ReFantazio (PC); Overboard! (PC)
@TheFrenchiestFry Sony is now a "data driven" company which thanks to the internet is the disease that has turned the diversity of a free market filled with trials and errors and experiments leading to niche markets into a clone of the dross that is a centrally planned economy, where only universally embraced sure-bets exist across all industries. Meaning they run the analytics, look at the cream that floated to the top, and invest only in more of that, for maximum investor return.
Some companies operate to be the best they can be in their sector. Their premium or value status is their image they sell. Sony is now a fully investor driven company. They operate simply to maximize the return lines on the balance sheets for investor praise. They'd kill Playstation and replace it with Now-only, bundled with movie streaming, and exit many market countries that underperform in a heartbeat if they thought that would maximize investor return.
The comment section is absolutely appalling. "Well done Sony"? It's good that PS5 is selling so much which will encourage Sony to be more arrogant and put in less effort? How are people not getting that Sony is catering to the mainstream audience and doesn't care one bit about their loyal users? What Sony needs now is a cold shower by having people not buy their system so blindly in order for Sony to realise that they need to change their current attitude. Instead, people are encouraging this type of behaviour. Absolutely insane, blind loyalty will only lead to a worse company and therefore worse products/services.
And yeah, I'm going to be honest, I'm genuinely upset with Sony. A couple of weeks ago I tried to purchase Klonoa on the Vita store and it was delisted prior to the PS Store closures with no notice at all. Same thing has happened with numerous games on the PS Store. Then I went to add funds to my account and I couldn't do that for three days, again with no information about this issue on the social media channels. Then I find out a week ago, again not through Sony but through an intermediary channel, that some games have had their patches removed from download without any warning beforehand. People reacted to this by assuming that this was simply a mistake and shrugged it off. I just tried updating the game SOCOM: Special Forces (which was one of the games mentioned on the PushSquare article that had its patches removed) and sure enough, you still can't download them one week later. "Mistake" huh?
As far as I'm concerned, Sony is dead to me. It's one thing if the negative press on Sony doesn't affect consumers, but when it actually does then we have a problem. And I hope more people start getting affected by Sony's arrogance so that they can wake up to reality. This is simply unacceptable but there's nothing we can do when the majority enables this type of behaviour.
Here's my current stance: I'm never going to buy a PlayStation system ever again and I hope that Microsoft keeps acquiring more studios or enter into partnerships with more companies in order to secure games on the Xbox ecosystem so that I don't have to feel like I'll be missing out on many games on PS. And while I'm talking about acquisitions, I find it hilarious that people think what Microsoft is doing is anti-consumer but Sony gets a free pass with all these moves they've been doing the past eight months. Crazy.
Honestly I'm done with the notion of picking sides if anything.
Sony's PR is appallingly bad but at this point when people have to vocalize stuff like "I'm never buying a PlayStation again" or "Sony is dead to me" I really can't help but roll my eyes so far back I look like I'm being possessed
I've already accepted the fact that corporations simply don't care about people's feelings. Warner Bros & Disney are like the master of pleasing as many people as they end up inevitably pissing off, and I've learned in recent years that I'm really just wasting my own time getting worked up about that kind of stuff.
You know what? I'm going to start looking at things more positively. Well done to Sony for selling that many PS5s in such short time. It's a great console and I'm enjoying myself with it. You could be working a bit on actually listening to your core consumer base when we request features like wider BC or simply not being radiosilent when they should be talking, but as a console right now, the PS5 is pretty solid and has made a great first impression on me.
I'm honestly just worn the hell out by all this constant negativity. I've become generally super neutral in all of this stuff. At this point I'm really just in it for the games. If I really cared about picking a side and none of the consoles right now didn't have compelling exclusive software, I'd straight up being winging it with just a PC.
Microsoft's doing great stuff with Game Pass and the partnerships they've struck but I've come to realize that they just don't have the pull for me to get on their side because I'm just not into their games compared to Sony or Nintendo which is why PC being an option for their stuff allows me to just take a neutral stance on this entire thing. Picking sides is stupid lmao
I'm just going to be there wherever the games come from now on. I don't have the energy that some other people on this site do for stuff like "F*ck Sony" or "F*ck Microsoft". If the games are good, they're good. If either of them make a move that benefit me or a collective as gamers/consumers of their product, even better.
They both have their strengths and weaknesses. In Sony's defense, there is way more stuff on the horizon from them I'm looking forward to compared to Microsoft, but Microsoft also has a good thing going with Game Pass and at least Hellblade 2 looks neat.
I just...really don't care anymore lmao. Negative press this and negative press that. Sony's arrogant, but it'll come to a point where eventually they have to feel their mortality because it's happened to them before. I just hope the games are good. I can willingly learn to seperate games and game makers from the corporation that pumps them out.
@LtSarge You know honestly I don't really see the point in bickering about the PS5 doing well. There are even a few Xbox folks acknowledging the console is successfully getting into more consumers' hands and the software out there right now is clicking with a lot of people
Maybe it's because I can more easily acknowledge when things are going right for a specific company but there was really no need to bring the whole thing about the PS5 doing well back to the negative press they've been getting. We could use any positive news at this point
Hoping that more people get affected by what you're going through honestly sounds incredibly petty. I get that this recent wave of news about the Store closures was definitely worth calling out but praying that something like that happens again just so Microsoft gets better press or their brand gets more of a bad reputation honestly sounds kind of selfish and going past venting territory.
And honestly in regards to Microsoft buying more studios, I will only deem it anticonsumer if they aren't using those studios well. I don't like the notion that Microsoft has to buy third parties to strengthen their own first party portfolio when they could be using the IPs they already own and making them better for their new consoles instead of basically snatching up franchises with recognizable titles and faces and claiming it as their property. If that happens on a more frequent basis then yeah I'm not okay with it and I don't think a lot of people who aren't already heavily Xbox-biased are going to be either.
Sony's done stuff recently that was worth calling out, but just because of that it doesn't mean you have to be exempt from crediting them on their successes and where they do find leverage. Just my two cents.
@TheFrenchiestFry You'd think that after so much negative news about Sony that people would think "hey, maybe we shouldn't invest in a PS5 now". The fact that every week has had bad news about Sony AND it's still selling extremely well is what I'm taking issue with. People are supporting a scummy company like Sony, that's not something we should be happy about. And the reason why I said that I hope more people get affected is because they've just been fortunate enough to not be affected yet. People like you who say they are tired of people constantly talking negatively about Sony is exactly the issue here. Let's say that you were having issues with your PlayStation devices recently, and one issue after another would show up. Would you not then be upset with Sony? Or would you just let all that slide by? Because the thing that people are not realising is that they're giving Sony a free pass either because they haven't been affected yet by their poor behaviour or because they like their products so much that it doesn't matter. They deserve all the criticism they can get and it's absolutely justified this time, just like how it was justified to criticise Microsoft back in 2013 with all that crap they tried to pull off with Xbox One. So let me be clear, it doesn't matter if it's Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo, all companies are equally worth calling out whenever they do scummy stuff. It just so happens that Sony is the primary company this time, just like how Microsoft was the primary one in 2013. And as @NEStalgia mentioned, who knows, maybe Microsoft will be the arrogant one in a couple of years when they let their success get in over their heads. But as far as I'm concerned, I've had enough with Sony now and I'm definitely not going to support them this generation if they don't change their attitude. They've been the most anti-consumer and vile gaming company these past few years and it's completely unacceptable. If PS5 is selling well, you can be sure that no changes will come to the company anytime soon. I hope you realise that.
@LtSarge I think those people aren't necessarily in the wrong for getting a PS5. They have their own reasons
I think the lack of first party from Microsoft's side has just immediately made everyone default to going with Sony this generation despite the bad press they're getting. It definitely helps in their case that for a large portion of the last generation, Sony were just undoubtedly winning more people over to their side no matter how much the new management with Spencer at Xbox tried to turn things around, so naturally there's going to be overlap. Obviously the people who adopted the widely successful, 100-million selling PS4 are going to buy its successor because that's just how it is. PlayStation has a worldwide grab now that Xbox arguably still doesn't have despite the good press they're getting. It's the same reason people overlook stuff like Joy-Con drift, the "Switch tax", Nintendo's mediocre online offerings, and their shadier practices like creating artificial scarcity for particular games or their hypocritical stance on people uploading content of theirs like their game OSTs, and the Switch is STILL a widely demanded console. That doesn't mean there aren't people who aren't ok with the direction these companies are heading. I've been pretty vocally critical of some of their recent practices, but at the same time there's literally nothing on Xbox that really compels me to convert over, because I'm just not a Forza or Gears guy and I don't see myself using Game Pass to the extent its value proposition justifies. I don't think I'm alone on that either.
It's also a matter of either brand loyalty or recognizability. Not every one of those 5-6 million people getting one of these consoles is really getting them because they're a core gamer, they just have preferences with brands they've been used to. A lot of people get PlayStations just as FIFA or COD machines, not necessarily because Project Athia or Pragmata blew their socks off or because they watch E3 religiously or follow gaming news super seriously. In a broader sense it's quite obvious Sony would have a leg up in terms of consumer morale because not absolutely everyone is getting these consoles for specific games, but just as a casual gamer. I know people who had PS4s but their game stack was usually just sports games or FPS games. That's really just how it is no matter the press they get
In regards to the online stores and the debacle surrounding that, I feel like it would've been more effective on other people if those people hadn't long since moved on to another console without batting an eye. It doesn't help especially that in the Vita's case, not a lot of people own a Vita and it ended up selling about an 8th of what the PSP did numbers wise. The PS3 Store has likewise, been active for about 15 years, and in that time we've gone two generations up and I doubt a lot of people who aren't super into the ecosystem on PlayStation are holding onto their PS3s this late into its lifecycle. I actually had to sell mine prior to getting a PS4 for example.
Game preservation is important but there's also a harsh reality that I think a lot of its advocators can't really accept as to why these things happen when they do. Sometimes it's down to management being the way it is and other times, it's just certain platforms running its course. I'm not overly fond of every decision Jim Ryan is making but there are mountainloads of more people who just don't really use up their energy writing blog posts about how much he's damaging PlayStation's identity or how he should be removed forcefully from the higher ups and stuff like that. Most people in the long run, probably don't care nearly as much as we do. I think this proves how much of a vocal minority we really are
I'm not saying it's right, but it is reality. The PS5 was poised to do better from the get go, and I think Microsoft even knows that considering they aren't positioning Xbox as strictly a console platform anymore.
@LtSarge Well there's still the legacy vs. new situation. If you want to play old games get a Series X, if you want to play new games get a PS5 and that narrative will probably remain until around 2023.
I really don't see why people get so defensive over a Brand. At the end of the day, they are NOT paying you to be their PR, their spokesperson etc and you are 'paying' them to provide the service/products you want. In the case of Consoles, you have a choice to make - but whichever 'brand' you go with, you are paying 'them' to provide the 'games' and/or services you want. Granted that can change over a generation and you have to take some 'risk' that the games/services continue to be what you want for at least the duration of that hardwares life cycle.
With things moving more towards 'digital' games/services as well as people having a profile with a history of achievements/trophies and at least 1 generation of Backwards Compatibility, there is much more to 'lose' by jumping platforms at the start of a new generation.
Sony also targetted the US market with the release of the PS5 - sending more consoles proportionally to US because they know the NPD charts are important to investors. Being the biggest selling console in the US is more important than selling more consoles in the Rest of the World. Regardless, both the Series X and PS5 have both been sold out so can't exactly of sold 'more' units over that period of time.
MS is a Software company primarily and their focus is on Game Pass primarily. They don't really care how many consoles they sell, that's like worrying how many Surface laptops they sell when they have Windows on the majority of other branded laptops - all potentially a Game Pass subscriber and MS constomer. They provide a Console for those that prefer the 'console' experience for playing games but its just a 'small' part of the overall Xbox Gaming Ecosystem. They don't need a 'system' seller, they want Game Pass sellers - and if that means if they can put games like Outriders and MLB - not even exclusives to the Xbox ecosystem - on Game Pass, that's still a big win for that service. Yes you can buy a PS5 and play both of those, if you have the money left to buy both in a month, but its cheaper to buy a Series X and a Game Pass subscription or even cheaper, a Series S and GP...
The knock on effect of MS building up Game Pass of course is that the 'Console' will get more exclusives. If you prefer to buy your games, you still can. There has been talk/rumours about MS selling a 'dongle' and/or working with TV manufacturers to get Game Pass on TV's. No need to hookup a console/PC, just stream games direct to the TV (or Dongle). Whether Sony follow suit, we will have to see but right now, their focus seems to be on making the 'big' games to build up their PS5 user base and if you are spending millions on development and/or marketing, you want it to appeal to the largest group of people to entice them to buy a PS5. Its cheaper to also look around and buy timed exclusivity on the more risky or niche type projects than make them in house.
Point is, MS and Sony are on completely different strategies for the next gen. Looking purely at Sony, they are doing what they have done for years and years. The PS4 was a 'fresh' start for the generation and still went on to outsell MS - even after the introduction of BC and Game Pass. This gen, they have made it BC with the previous gen, that's more than the PS4 had. Some games have been free upgrades to next gen too and has a lot of interesting projects lined up too. If that isn't where you are as a gamer anymore, then you can jump brands - however, you don't know if Sony will stick to that strategy forever - even focussing more on big name franchises. For all we know, Sony may want to get those big names out as fast as possible to get people into their PS5 ecosystem and then can add 1st Party diversity. People are more likely to buy a PS5 with franchises they know and love than a bunch of games that are far more niche or unknowns so their priority right now might be different to mid way or even towards the end of the generation.
I think its better to buy the 'brand' that delivers more of the games/services you prefer and if that changes, then why not buy the other system - especially if they have been out a few years and the price is significantly lower. Just assess what best for you at the time but you are paying for the games/service...
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Hey guys this is my first time posting for a long time so hope you are all doing okay. I understand why many people are disappointed with the PS3, PSP and vita stores closing, myself included and i definitely agree that Sony should be called out on how they handle things, at the same time i think are alot of people out there who need to calm down a bit, none of these companies are your mates and there number one concern has always been getting money from you, none of them really care how their costumers feel, there are pros and cons for every system and i feel people should just pick which one calls out the most. personally i like all systems and i feel there is so much negativity out there surrounding something that at the end of the day that should be fun.
Yeah honestly at this point I say screw picking sides or biasing yourself towards one console because clearly both Microsoft and Sony have kinks they need to work out
Microsoft's first party output could be a LOT better and they still have some work to do with their already great BC lineup in regards to the original Xbox. At this point, potentially for a few years you're buying an Xbox console for Game Pass and third party games, and honestly in that regard I think Series S is a way more compelling offer right now than Series X given its lower price tag with a similar feature set unless you're just really into the Xbox brand and their ecosystem or you already have a capable PC which also guarantees you both and potentially plays third party games better than any of these consoles can
Sony likewise has a great console with great exclusives so far, but really need to work on their PR and transparency with consumers and core fans, while also not shying away from taking some notes from Microsoft in regards to oft-requested features like backwards compatibility with consoles prior to PS4, or even something like Quick Resume, which is legitimately the most next gen-ish feature I've seen from either console
They both have strengths and weaknesses and honestly the negativity on Sony, despite how bad of a look it gives them, should not just give Microsoft a free pass from admitting there are faults with their console as well
That's incredible that they actually reversed course on the PS3 & Vita store. This is the first time in as long as I can remember since Kaz stepped down that PS has actually almost indicated they're paying attention and actually care about the core market's opinion.
@TheFrenchiestFry Apparently that small vocal minority sometimes matters as much as it thinks it does....enough to get even Jim Ryan to take notice from atop his ivory tower! And enough to get MS to reverse their Gold Price doubling in mere hours. I find it interesting Sony would choose that issue to start listening. Maybe they're starting to recognize the tides could be turning on the PR front. That would be good for everyone.
@Grumblevolcano I still don't understand that thinking, still. I can understand people that prefer Sony's big cinematic movie games and that's what they want to invest in. But I don't' get the meme that Xbox has no games and Sony has so many right now. What does PS5 have? A bunch of beautified PS4 games mostly consisting of sequels to PS4 series, a remake of a PS3 game that is step for step identical to the original, and R&C, plus some exclusive and timed exclusive indies. And one of those is on Game Pass. Neither of them have much in the way of new "first party games" right now. We know MS has a ton of stuff a few years off. We don't know what Sony's drip feeding outside what we already know, though we could probably guess with 75% accuracy what 80% of it will be. We can all go "If you love GoW and HzD buy a PS5, if you love Halo and Fable buy an Xbox" but in reality first party next gen hasn't really arrived for either company and we don't have a dated roadmap for either to truly start. Third party is on both.
TBH my PS5 is a dust collector while most "new" games I've been playing have been on XSX. I used the PS5 for Sackboy and Miles at the start, then just played some Gravity Rush, Cold Steel, and Mankind Divided on it (because it doesn't have an X1X patch but has a Pro Patch.) Other than that it just sits in standby forever and ever. Ratchet will pull me back in, it's what I bought the console day 1 for, but that's about all on the horizon of much interest to me. GoW is very much backlog, as in, I still haven't finished the prior one yet but "I'll get to it someday" - same with HzD and GoT. I could wait for the sequels to hit $29.99 and not even notice I got it late. Kena and Stray interest me, though those are third party indie published by Sony. It's not exactly the "exclusives" people are talking about. Ghostwire and Deathloop are timed-only....and are MS-owned now. Preferring one set of games to another is one thing, but the narrative that PS5 has tons of new games while Xbox has none just doesn't make sense from where I'm sitting. We know a ton of MS games that will be coming, and we know it's not now. We know a handful of Sony games that are coming pseudo-now-ish-maybe, and we know most of them are cross-gen. "Next gen" starts in 2022.
@NEStalgia Even better, Jim Ryan was literally the guy who made the announcement on the PlayStation Blog, and he directly acknowledged that there were still people using the PS3 and Vita stores for classic game downloads, which is so goddamn ironic after his "who wants to play old games?" interview.
If this is the start of PR stuff turning around for them then this is definitely a good first step
@TheFrenchiestFry I saw that. It's funny, they promised they'd use the blog. And then they didn't. And then they finally have something meaningful to say and it's Ryan himself posting on the blog. Maybe he's watching Phil thinking "Pfft, I can do that!"
"A better Playstation" that actually wants to compete with MS in offering value and good PR is what I was hoping would happen with the PS5 launch. If it's a few months late, I'll take it!
@NEStalgia Honestly a few months late is fine enough for me as well
Considering this is happening like right ahead of Returnal's launch it might come off as even better press that sparks better morale in the brand ahead of PS5 getting some more exclusive software. I do hope they also take notes from Microsoft in regards to things they've been doing for the consumer as of late because other than that I honestly don't regret getting a PlayStation this gen either. It's a great console with some great games, but they could be doing more
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