Talking Point: What Are Your Thoughts On 'Lies Of P' So Far?

Haven't had a chance to play it yet as I want to finish Starfield this week.

@PJOReilly 👋👋

Started playing last night, stopped and back on Starfield.
Such a shame as the game overall seems great.
We need an easier mode for us old folk that are slower nowadays.

It’s so stupid that developers don’t offer an easier option.
It can still be souls like for those that want it that way.
Options and choices are the way forward.

@OldGamer999 I always put my games on easy. i'm here for the fun, not frustration.

I like it a lot, truly a spiritual bloodborne successor.
And it actually plays like a nice blend of BB and Sekiro.
Did the first three or so boss fights yesterday.
Plays well, looks well, optimized very well, soundtrack's great as well.
And all this from a korean dev.
Might not get to the end however because it's a bit too parry heavy for my tastes.
Also, weird thing is they same to have korean subs embedded for boss fights.

it looks good, its just not my kind of game. if im gonna play a sword game, its gonna be skyrim or assassin's creed and i'll use bows 99% of the time.

@OldGamer999 I just don't understand why these games limit their appeal by refusing to include difficulty options. Not only for us old folks but for people who don't have time to fight each boss 40 times. I've been saying for years that someone is going to make a great soulslike, add a difficulty option, then sell an enormous number of copies lol

I've been good about allocating an 30-60 minutes to it when I can. Last night I beat the first boss. That wasn't too tough (2-3 deaths) since I played the demo. The plan is to chip away here and there.

@armondo36
Glad a few of you on here agree.
I mean I gave it ago as have game pass and failed of course.
But they so limit their potential sales, if it had an easier mode and I didn’t have game pass I would probably buy the game.
Never mind their loss as well as mine as it seems a very well put together game.
It’s annoying when the game is good and you can’t play it because of stupid difficulty and no easier mode.

@OldGamer999
Couldnt agree more mate. I still want to play these games and dont mind a challange, but I genuinely dont have the reaction times to deal with the challange any longer. Only got through Elden Ring by over levelling (which is why it took me 400 hours) 😊

@Titntin me too! And Elden Ring was still difficult even with the over leveling, but it was a MANAGEABLE difficulty and it made the game so much more fun not having to sweat out every second of the game

@Kaloudz it gets harder 🤣 I beat the demo and the last boss on it, yeah…. 😂

I’m a fan of the game though but it’s tough. The parrying is extremely tight and unforgiving. Not every game has to be for everybody and that’s okay.

@Titntin
Wow 400 hours on Elden Ring, good on you.
Lies of P seems a great game what I played
Just a dam shame really.
Anyway I soon stopped and went back into space.

@armondo36 @OldGamer999 I agree on the Difficulty but I also understand why they don't. The point isn't necessarily to get through the game as quickly/easily as you want - its meant to be a Difficult challenge and that you can 'learn' something from failing - even repeatedly failing until you find a way to overcome that obstacle. Bonfires are a Risk/Reward choice - risk losing everything but payoff is higher.

Its a bit like learning to play the Guitar for example - if it was easy, everyone would be able to play but it takes time, practice and you have to be 'motivated' to persevere through. If you are motivated enough, you'll keep pushing through.

Its not like Gears of War for example where they want you to reach the end, enjoy the Story so can basically remove any challenge to make it 'easier'.

Instead of turning the Difficulty down to get passed a difficult boss, the point is that you 'learn' from the challenge. It may take you many attempts to learn all the attack patterns and/or indications of what attack they are about to do during each 'phase', what is 'working' for you and/or what doesn't? Whether or not you should leave to try and level up skills/weapons etc or just need to adapt your playstyle etc.

In some ways, its teaching people a valuable life lesson - that somethings are life may seem like an impassable obstacle to you achieving your 'goals' - whatever they maybe. But if you are willing to put the time and effort in, the pay off is much higher. The sense of achievement of overcoming that obstacle is much greater too - like playing a song on the guitar that people recognise and enjoy makes all those months/years of practice and 'learning' to overcome the difficulty that at times can feel like you will never be 'good enough' to make 'music'.

I see your point too - at 51 myself, I don't necessarily want that 'challenge' and have had a Lifetime of Difficult Obstacles blocking my path - some I had to overcome and others maybe I gave up trying. I don't want to waste what 'little' leisure time I have on bashing my head against a wall over and over again and feel like I haven't really got anywhere when I could have played something else and felt like I really made progress.

But that's what I feel about Souls-like games - the Challenge and 'lessons' they teach are part of what makes them a Souls game and taking away that Challenge takes away that Risk/reward, that sense of Achievement, that sense that gear, skills etc matter as even a small stat increase feels impactful.

Well, they tried. A souls like game that doesn't do it nearly as well as a souls game. Lies of P is a 6-7. For someone who has never played a From Software game, Lies of P might be a higher score. Although the boss fights are far too hard, borderline frustrating. But, as everyone will probably say - "At least it's on Game Pass".

@armondo36 Because if you take the high difficulty out, then in most cases youd be left with a really short game. Most of them are really linear, you could probably run through Bloodborne in just 6-7 hours if you didnt keep dying.

@Fenbops but everygame should try to welcome everybody imo.

@NeutronBomb why? It’s a developers choice to decide the difficulty of their game. If they’re willing to not cater to a portion of gamers then I don’t see a problem with it’s their choice.

@Kaloudz Those policeman grunts are no joke 🤣

@BAMozzy ‘In some ways it’s teaching people an important life lesson’

I think there’s real value in this, if you fail, do better next time, don’t give up. That’s what make these games so rewarding and it’s also a good attitude to have outside of gaming too.

@Kaloudz Oooo.. thanks for that info dude!
I've not booted it up yet cause I'm stuck in Starfield on series X and Motorfest on the PS5.

But now I'm aware, I can at least try.
I'm not a quick quitter - I have 95 hours in Returnal despite never beating the third boss (I don't even get to it very often!)

Its a little sad how much you lose as you age, especially for a gamer like myself. But its all part of the great journey, and If I can last another 30 years I want it to be with a controller in hand

I'm playing it, it's ok. I got a bit bored of it after playing for a while but I keep wanting to play as I like the challenge.

The atmosphere is lacking to me, but I am comparing it to Bloodborne.

@Fenbops gaming is meant to be a hobby, an enjoyable hobby. You may only have 1-2hrs to game but where is the fun if you are constantly re trying the same bit over and over?

Where instead I can boot up Starfield or whatever and actually progress? On a single player game having difficulty options doesn’t affect anyone else’s enjoyment of the game. It just means more can enjoy it. Those that want to do the developers intend settings still can.

@BAMozzy Nice try, but the challenge is not equal if you have reaction times that are measurably longer than you had when you were younger. The challenge for this game is set for the average 30 yo to find it tough but ultimately 'doable' and if we all had similar capacity, then everything you say about the rewards of perseverance makes a lot of sense.

However, in this instance, its also about accessibility. Team green have gone a long way to try and make their games accessible to all, so its clearly a desirable thing to open up games to all people.
The best case scenario includes people of all ability levels, and that should include us oldies, who simply cannot react in the same time frames any longer. Its a universal truth and it will catch up to you too some day.

I'm not on any mad crusade or about to loose my cool cause they didnt think of me, I just think its shame that this particular accessibility feature is so over-looked. There's still very few gamers at my age, so I expect in 10 to 20 years time when many more old people still play games, that more devs will consider it.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner what’s not fun to you is to others. If it’s too hard, don’t play it, the developers chose to take that risk, it’s their choice and like I said I see no issue with it.

There are so many games out there, one not catering to you or me doesn’t matter, play a game you enjoy (like Starfield you mentioned) while others play some games you can’t. Like I said not every game has to be for everyone. That’s okay.

@NeutronBomb very true, which is probably why they refuse to do it lol. Don't get me wrong I love these games but I'm reluctant to buy them outright because I know I'm super unlikely to get anywhere near finishing them lol

@Romans12 I'm at around a 7 as well. The controls are off, which isn't a huge problem until like you said the bosses. Too many times I'll push a button once and P attacks an extra time, leaving you open to attack. I almost never feel like From software games are unfair, just hard. This game often feels unfair. Needs a patch.

@Fenbops luckily I can still play many fine. But we are in 2023 now where accessibility is a thing, and it’s becoming harder to leave people out and so on.

I totally agree that it is the developers choice, but why as a business would you leave potential sales?

I just see it as no issue to include difficulty options on single player games, as it affects no one else. Give a special achievement to those who do it on the developers difficulty. But let as many people as possible enjoy your game.

@BAMozzy I do love these games but I'm extremely selective about them because I know I probably won't finish them

Beat the first 3 bosses and enjoyed what I played so far. Few nitpicks though, parry window is a bit hit and miss, I know it's a hold for perfect parry rather than tap but it just whiffs entirely sometimes. Some very dodgy hitboxes and occasionally woeful input lag. Nothing a patch or two can't fix, it's a great effort for a first attempt at the genre.

@Tintin I fully get where you're coming from, I'm 52 and definitely feel the drop off in reaction times but this isn't a twitch shooter, sure it's reaction based but you're up against readable foes with set patterns, not an unpredictable 14yr old pumped full of sugar.

Is there an easy or story mode?

Really hope so. If not, I'll never play it.

@Fenbops Totally. If the publisher is fine knowing sales are hamstrung by skill requirements, then who am I to say thats not ok? Nice to see that more money is not the only thing that matters for a change.
But won't stop me asking for easy mode, on behalf of those of us who want to just experience the story/game beginning to end, but don't want the whole thing to feel like a painful lesson in perseverance.

There are so many souls games out there I would try, but they are too hard to play, die die die everytime each minute

@Fenbops That last boss in the demo took me a lot of time and many failures. He kept faking me out with that damn "wave my hands over my head" attack. I thought to myself, "I can't believe I fell for that AGAIN." 😄 I really should have taken a long break or turned the game off for a while.

@Fenbops @BAMozzy I agree your assessments of challenge in games. I'm 46 I don't believe I've lost some preternatural reaction time that I once possess 20-30 years ago. 😄

My attitude has remained the same and I imagine my problem-solving skills have improved. The games have certainly changed. My age remains irrelevant — I play just about every game on the hardest difficulty, with few exceptions. I'll never put on the chicken hat, no matter how many times it's offered. 😄

Games are designed to be beaten on any difficulty. When I die repeatedly without improvement, I blame myself, not the game. The game isn't going to change for me. When you don't reassess your tactics and those of the enemy, that's when you get stuck in a rut and frustrated.

@armondo36 And that's OK - it just means that these type of games are 'not for you' regardless of the score, the narrative or some pretty looking graphics that appeal...

Point is, that difficulty is a design choice, call it catering to a 'niche' audience not looking for the Mass Market appeal of an Assassins Creed. I dislike Turn Based Combat so had zero interest in Midnight Sons despite being a fan of Marvel. Point is just because some aspect appeals, their design choice to make a Turn based Combat, a Souls Like, A first Person only RPG or whatever, its not going to appeal to everyone regardless.

The ONLY difference between games like Dark Souls or Elden Ring is that you have a barrier to entry and maybe an expectation about getting to the 'end' to get your 'moneys worth' where as with this, you can try it and decide whether the game play is enjoyable enough to actually worth persevering through the difficulty, worth the incredible highs you get after suffering some of the 'lowest lows from overcoming those obstacles or not, all at NO EXTRA COST.

If the 'difficulty' is the only thing stopping you from progressing, its not really a game for you - that's OK because not every game is meant for EVERYONE. Not everyone likes Rogue-likes - dying and having to restart again and again and again but that is a design choice for those that 'enjoy' that aspect.

As I said, I don't want to waste my time bashing my head against a wall when I would rather feel like I can make Progress in many other games and feel 'satisfied'. I don't like turning off/quitting a game knowing the next time I play, I face the boss that's been kicking my ass over and over again either. However what you may think of as 'difficult' may not seem as difficult or as bad when you click with different mechanics and/or the world they are set in. You may find that the customisation options in the weaponry suits a playstyle you enjoy and then its not so much a chore when you want to find out more about the story, the world etc and/or find better 'gear' to be more efficient and deal more damage when you get the chance to attack...

This games not for me I really don't understand why there isn't difficulty modes in all games I would of loved elden ring and bloodborne and all the other great games like that but there's no way I'm playing something like that I play to enjoy games not get frustrated constantly I do that enough at work lol but each to their own there should be different options for everyone in my opinion but there's a certain audience for these games I suppose it won't change