Xbox Fans Ponder What 'Largest Technical Leap' Means For The Series X Successor

I don't think the comment was much more than a corporate bod speaking corporate BS. I think the NeXtBoX will not be much of a step ahead than the PS5 Pro. The returns are diminishing, and there is only so much you can do for a reasonable cost, as the Pro has demonstrated. It'll be a decent, but expensive console, but not a giant technical leap for console-kind...

Pointless speculation, it’s just marketing talk for what we all already know it’s gonna be AI in some shape or form.

We won't see any more major leaps in technology.
The biggest thing, going from last gen to the current one, was MUCH faster load times.

Games aren't gaining in resolution either.
The native resolutions are going down, as developers sadly are using upscalers now.
The games are now so damn demanding, that even high end GPU's can't run them in native resolution, if you want 4K 60fps.

And unless the developers pull the breaks, and actually starts developing, within the limits of the hardware, we can actually buy, then it's just gonna get worse...

We used to go from console release games, being good, and then getting more and more impressive, as they learned how to handle the hardware.
Just look at the NES, that basically started life, as a console to play games like Donkey Kong, to end up running impressive games like Little Samson.
Now it's the other way around, as it starts great, and then gets worse and worse, as the generation goes on.

And that's why I no longer feel any hype for next gen.

We all know it was just BS. I'd be surprised if they have even decided at this point.
However, if they did have plans to make a TV friendly PC with a bespoke games OS, this could be what she was referring to. If this is the direction they are going I'd bet the $700 for a PS5 pro will be chump change in comparison to what they would have to charge - particularly as I don't see them launching with a price that looses money any further.
Having said that - if this is where they are going - I'd be all in for it!

@Steel76 "as developers sadly are using upscalers now."

You clearly haven't moved on and realised that Ai upscaled gaming titles are often producing better image quality than native renders. This has been happening on PC for some time.
The idea that native internal rendering resolution is the metric that matters is now way off the mark. For the end user, how such a fine 4K image is derived doesn't matter at all, and its often much better to use DLSS on a 2K or 1080p image than to render native.

Largest Leap can mean Anything. From a purely Mathematical perspective, jumping from 360 to XB1 was a bigger leap than OG Xbox was to 360. The leap up from XB1 to Series X was even bigger as no Console as leaped up by over 10TF of GPU compute.

If they release a 24TF Next gen Xbox, that would be a bigger Leap up for example as that is a leap of 12TF - more than XB1 to XSX. However, that is only a 2x leap compared to a 8-9x leap from XB1 to XSX.

To me that is Marketing speak - you can't argue that a 12TF 'leap' up would be larger than a 10.6TF leap for example, but I doubt you'll get a 8-9x 'leap'...

Let me know when Xbox studios produce a game using all the power of the series x first.

Largest Technical Leap = Streaming Box

@Titntin
I have moved on. But I'm tired of most developers using the upscaling as a crutch, to get their games to run on the hardware.
It's great to use on weaker hardware, but when you even have to use it on a RTX4090 (which I own), then they really should learn to optimize their games.

@Fiendish-Beaver I reckon you are right in that it will not be to dissimilar to the PS5 Pro, especially if its delivered in 2026. I wonder if the marketting BS speech is in part because the Pro and Base 5 sit in the same generation, so by not having a pro model MS can claim the biggest leap. Especially when coupled with the fact that they can arguably choose where the goalposts are placed.

I will definitely get an Xbox handheld which seems to be inevitable.

As for a huge leap, I just don’t see that and let’s not forget that was said at a time when Xbox was announcing games moving multi platform. It came across as a desperate statement at the time and it still sounds that way now.

Also Bond, Booty and Spencer have even less control anyway now as Nadella has pretty much taken centre stage with Xbox as he presses ahead with moving it all to Microsoft Gaming.

Cloud and streaming is what they want and with games we own being tested via cloud soon, Xbox is basically heading toward Stadia land.

I guess we may see a hybrid but with rumours now - only today - that Halo is going to PS and PC lock stock and barrel- it is clearer than ever that Microsoft Gaming will be the name in the future.

Nadella is in full control now. Anything Spencer or Booty say may as well be taken with a massive pinch of salt.

@Titntin "a TV friendly PC with a bespoke games OS"

Even that is basically a steam box using Steam OS or the much older big picture mode they originally had. I think you would have to narrow the category further for it to be more revellant.

Definitely just marketing BS.
What it's gonna end up being is proprietary AI upscaling (that might be similar to PSSR, and probably worse than DLSS), and cloud computing integration (which I'm not a fan of, as it makes playing current games even less likely in the future if core mechanics rely on cloud services).

@Steel76 You still don't get it. It's BETTER than native rendering - why would you want worse PQ that ties up more of your resources?
My machine is 2 years old now, but I use an EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra myself - though I rarely ever game on PC. I'd rather use DLSS and have horsepower to spare than waste my time native rendering 4K for a worse output.

@Ilyn Yeah I didnt really flesh out any specs, but its clear it would be a Steam Box with much better specs, and yes you would need to specify a lot more than that for it to be relevant, but I suspect that's where a lot of their thinking has gone.
Ultimately, they are a software company though, so I suspect they wont make this as its not an area where they can make big profit and there are already platforms where they can make big bucks from their existing studios.

This was said at the same time that Phil said that Indiana Jones wasn't being ported to Playstation, and that they were only looking to port games that were over a year old. Everything that came out of that 'business update' was them flailing around in a panic. The more time goes by, the worse that whole thing looks.

Everyone’s thinking in the wrong direction (advancing technology and better looking games).

We are talking about the corporation behind the mantra ‘Great games don’t sell consoles’, the company taking their best titles and releasing them on every platform that will take them. Suppose they get something as good looking as Gears E-Day on an old Texas Instruments Ti-86 calculator? That would be the biggest technological leap I’ve ever seen, even more impressive than people getting Doom to run on old microwave displays.

@InvaderFromSpace Phil said Indiana Jones was not part of the four games being ported. He also said those 4 games were 1 year or more old.

You made the conclusion that it meant any future ports would be 1 year and never indy.

@Balaam_ I think Doom on a sex toy is still the peak of innovation. More enjoyable haptics than anything else out there.

Copilot

cause ms gonna ms

@Ilyn steam box with Xbox store included is probably exactly what it needs to be, if they can get that deal. I think that's how you tempt PC players to either switch to the console market, or have it alongside a PC as their living room machine.

If it's not that, then it'll likely do as well as Xbox hardware does now, which is still pretty good for MS as a game pass revenue stream. For all the doom you can read about as an Xbox owner, at least it's always interesting 🤣

I thought they'd since doubled-down on not releasing any more hardware and were focusing on the 'play anywhere on any device' aspect of Gamepass? One would assume then they are working on new data centre / cloud tech with AI enhancements. My guess is they could potentially offer full backwards compatibility in various VMware / containers, so we could see tons of old games come back.

I’m excited to see what this is but at the same time MS are masters of PR.

I’m not sure we’ll ever see a leap like we did, for example, between SNES and PS1 again.

They're putting Kinnect back in the box!

It's going to be extremely AI driven. Plain and simple.

Chasing native resolutions and native framerates is becoming a pointless effort thanks to advances in AI technology.

The RTX series of GPUs have been a game-changer for PCs. And switching from console-only to an RTX-driven PC is like entering an entirely different generation of gaming.

I play Cyberpunk 2077 completely maxed out with full path-tracing enabled at 1440p output resolution and get anywhere from 75 - 90fps with amazing controller response using a 4070 Super.

However, the native resolution is like 800p (I think I am using DLSS Balanced) and the native framerate is probably in 40s/50s (frame gen doesn't necessarily double framerate, by the way). I am sure I could get very similar results at 4K output (but I'd have to use a more aggressive DLSS setting if I wanted to keep things maxed out).

Thanks to Reflex, the game also feels like I am playing at a higher framerate. Now, I play PC games with a controller, so perhaps keyboard/mouse doesn't feel as responsive, but that doesn't matter much for a console.

Sure, I could turn off path tracing and RT if I wanted and get much higher FPS, but if I can get the best visuals running comfortably over 60fps (even if I have to rely on AI to achieve it), that's the choice I'll make.

Bottom line, AI can make even modest hardware punch well above its weight. So even if Microsoft were to double the power of the Series X, having powerful AI capabilities could "triple" the power of the next console.

But Microsoft's problem isn't power. It needs to do something new to differentiate itself from Sony. Simply playing the power game isn't enough, anymore.

People are pretty much locked into Sony's ecosystem now - they've built up way too much to "start over" on another console. So whatever Microsoft is trying to do, it needs to be able to stand alone as a great secondary machine as well as a primary machine.

I already said that back when MS announced it. Literally every console generation power leap is larger than the last because that’s how it works.

Hopfully be in AI imagine a game, say halo. where the enemies are close to real human behaviour.

For practical purposes we are definitely reaching diminishing returns, how many more pixels/refresh rate can our eye balls/brain handle?? I'm sure I don't have the vision requirements to be a pilot, having said that, I have both a Series S (basement) & Series X (main floor) and when I hop between them, I do not notice a difference between them. If they were side by side in the same room & I stop to pixel compare, yeah sure I would probably notice a difference, but for effective purposes I really don't care which console I use. We are definitely into diminishing returns for next console generations.

I can't imagine that I am really going to notice the difference in the next 'Largest Technical Leap', my eye balls are probably not good enough to notice the difference. Mainly I just need more storage for the games that are getting ever bigger.

That's like when a band says "this is our best album ever."

Wow, @Mazitron! What a hostile and rude comment!

So, what are you expecting? A console that will play everything at 120FPS and 8K with full Ray-Tracing? Now, if that comes along, then I'll be suitably impressed, but also, probably won't be able to afford it like probably 50% of the Xbox community.

I did not say that the console would not be better than the Pro. I said it would not be much better, and I stick to that. The Pro is not giving vastly better returns than the base PS5, and costs more than £800 if you want the stand and the disc-drive.

So, given that as a starting point, and assuming that the NeXtBoX is better than the Pro, which again, I think it will be, then what will more will it offer and what will it cost?

I think the best we can hope for is more games that run at upscaled 4K, and maybe more will run at 60FPS. I think that is pretty much to be expected, though we thought that when we were told about the Series consoles too. I still doubt that we will get that many games that will run with those settings and also Ray-Tracing, unless the consoles is going to cost £1000 or more because in order to achieve 4K, 60FPS and Ray-Tracing, you are talking expensive.

So, what are we left with if we have a more reasonably priced console? One that will more often than not have 4K, more often than not have 60FPS, and sometimes also Ray-Tracing. All of that, by the way, is what the Pro is offering right now. So best case scenario is that the NeXtBoX can do that a bit more often, but doing that and keeping the price down is next to impossible.

I simply do not know what you are expecting from the next console, but put simply, for it to be the 'largest technical leap' it has to be offering something that is also the largest price point leap too...

100% correct. It could be anything today and something else completely tomorrow if the design/contracts are yet to be finalized. BUT we are about 2 years out of a 2026 console so if that is coming the design should be basically done. If 2027 it's still up in the air.

@JH64 we are probably at least a decade to 15 years from something like that unless big breakthroughs happen in AI or AI hardware.

Its marketing speak.
But with a kernal of truth.

In terms of power, the next gen doesn't need much more. Enough to make stable 4k60 a reality. Probably with RT.

But the real improvement will be in the addition and integration of Cloud, AI and ML based systems. Much of this won't be visible to the gamer but could, and should, make games quicker, easier and cheaper to develop.

It will be AI. You could tell the first time Sarah bond said it, ages ago. Probably a combo of on-device and remote, all integrated.

Whether it will be wanted, that I have no idea.

They said this in the middle of their presentation confirming that they are going multiplatform and no game is exempt from going multiplatform. They flailed around trying their best to distract from this with nonsense like "it's just 4 games (for now)!!!" And "promises" about next gen. They were saying anything they possibly could to keep selling Xbox consoles and games for the next few years, deceiving people about their 3rd party plans. A surprising number of people here bought it at the time.

Its gonna have 1000% an AI upscaler, the more interesting question if thats going to be their proprietary solution like PSSR or just dlss/fsr depending on who is providing the tech.
And i would also bet on some cloud textures like in flight sim.
Anyways it will be more powerful than ps5 PRO and new games at some point will target next gen xbox. So its a mandatory purchase in the end of the day wheres we all can skip the ps5 pro

If they have other technologies for the software visuals sure, if they have another console gimmick/controller gimmick like gyro (the plans whatever they were prior and 'if true or not' as got impulse triggers for Xbox One, Share button for Series X/S but quick resume on the software side instead (that some people clearly don't know Xbox has and go oh no innovation, sigh some people).

I'd be happy with gyro/whatever motion and whatever they want to call it but I have already prior consoles to experience it so like I really care unless they put some interesting spin on it really in their games or the OS.

But if it's just a RAM/CPU/GPU increase, AI upscaling, eh could go either way but I really don't care, to me the game design matters and I haven't seen anything appealing like I have old gens (not PS4/Xbox One as while PS3/360 was the start 8th gen really set in the game design I wasn't into and audiences were a different focus so the game design was more dumbed down and I see it more and more so I am pulling away and being more picky of releases nowadays), whatever wattage for the power supply and so on sure. IF it's a bit more going on with getting the most out of them fine.

I couldn't care less other than gyro or game design, that's it, but my Xbox One is a YT app/soundcloud app and blu-ray player, I use it ucommonly for Xbox One/BC games but with streaming/gamepass/digital as the focus and with console sales being what they are for hardcore mostly I don't know what to think.

I haven't touch a Series 2020-2024 game physical (I don't buy digital Xbox games) in the slightly personally (sure Syberia remake seems fair for the price, Forza Motorsport 8 disappointed so pass on that, the rest are fine but either waiting or not interested) while others have.

Only picked up OG/360/Xbox One and not a single Xbox One 2020-2024 like I have PS4 more even if a small handful. Besides Switch of course.

Even then I'm mostly buying third parties and I mean niche or AA 3rd parties. I am very Indie picky too if it's nostalgic/very safe of ideas in execution I can be very harsh to Indies wanting them to do more ever so slightly. Or move more than their inspirations especially in some genres. The few 1% that impress I enjoy (not ones everyone talks about either I don't care about popularity the game design speaks for itself if it's good).

I think people are missing that even if it's not marketing speak, it doesn't matter. The current gen consoles are the MOST POWERFUL ever and on paper leagues more powerful than last gen, but that hasn't actually materialized much. Software development just hit a peak and we're seeing diminishing returns. I mean for how much the PS5 Pro and all it's specs on paper, in actuality you just aren't seeing the massive night and day difference between the PS4 and PS5 that you saw between the PS1 and PS2, because games can only perform and look so much better. We really need to see a lot more innovation in the industry which we aren't super getting as publishers and devs chase the same hyperreaslistic graphics and massive open worlds. Of course that's not everything but what I'm saying is regardless of how much more powerful next gen is, video games probably won't take that much advantage of it. Heck, if this gen is a sign of things to come then they'll see the extra power as reason to optimize less or fly too close to the sun causing more issues. Now there's a LOT Xbox could still do to make this feel like a big generational leap. Like a handheld as strong as the series S would be wild. The fact that the steam deck is as strong as a PS4 is already insane. And devs are doing a great job optimizing for me. I've played BG3 on my Steam deck since day one and have now clocked nearly 200hrs on it. The suggestion of more of a convergence with windows could be incredible if we see stuff like mods on Xbox and a standard of every game being play anywhere. My favorite thing from the series consoles is still the FPS boosts. Idk why they stopped, but if we continue to see them next gen that'd be fantastic. We could see Xbox One games hit 120fps. If that's something AI can turn on automatically without as much effort from Xbox engineers so we see it for more games then go ahead. But honestly judging from how development has been this gen, I'd say generations are dead.

Well it better not use upscaling and not struggle to be above 60 frames for all games

Performance leaps are a thing of the past unless quantum computing happens. My PC is basically the best money can buy in 2024, and it's not a "great technological leap" over the XSX. It just has better performance with more visual settings on, and the only real reason I bought it was for doing actual "great leap" stuff in taking normal games and making them run VR by brute force. That's a big leap, but that's not what the consoles will be doing.

I'm pretty sure it's some mixture of marketing BS, PC hybridization and/or AI. And given MS's AI obsession I'm sure it's about shoehorning AI awkwardly into games to try to make it a feature. There are some legitimatley cool features like being able to talk to any NPC in skyrim directly.

I’m buying it as an emulator box so more power is good.