Analyst Claims PS5 Outsold Xbox Series X|S Almost 5:1 Last Quarter

to be honest both companies are crap the last years....it's just about who got the most as* ***** fans, im better gaming on pc, also pc gamers have no chills punishing a company or devs for trying to play them (look at sony and the helldivers accident)

after years of being a xbox fan i would like to say
pc master race

It's no surprise with the extremely poor way Microsoft is managing Xbox. Soon they won't have a console business to save. Nothing but bad vibes and news. Only thing that's kept them going at all is Game Pass.

Won't be long until it's just called Microsoft gaming as they have clearly given up on Xbox. They have lied multiple times to customers and their own staff nobody trusts them anymore. People have had enough and will leave a sinking ship.

@TakeItEasy i am close to making the switch from Xbox to PC. Just not sure yet and want to save up more money for it. Sad to see MS with all the money and resources they have be so bad at gaming. They just don’t learn and continue to shoot their own toes off.

I picked up an Xbox Series X which was my first Xbox in 2022 cause of how annoyed I was with Sony (I own a PS5 as well) and I felt Xbox offered a more customer-centric experience. But goodness me, the way Xbox have managed their business tells me that I won't be getting another one.

I still primarily play on my Xbox cause of Game Pass but I don't think the Xbox brand has long to live.

TBF both PlayStation and Xbox doesn't fill me with any confidence moving forward and I would rather invest in PC (in terms of platform stability) but I do love a console experience where I can sit on the couch and play on my big screen.

@TakeItEasy overall PC gaming community is much worse than both Xbox or PlayStation — too many people with too many differences constantly bragging about rigs, components, games and everything else. After visiting some PC-gaming resources and reading an article about any game there, the only thing written in comments sections - "game is sh*t don't play it".

The best way to approach to games nowadays imo is playing what you find interesting to yourself and giving 0 attention to other opinions.

Though, I can't disagree that this gen both Sony and Microsoft are doing goddamn bad communicating with their audience.

For months MS has been saying sales are going to slow, along with reported stalling of subscription.

My question always comes back to, why aren’t people picking Xbox? It has the cheaper console, it has GPU, it has the most powerful console, it has some of the biggest franchises.

So why aren’t people buying it? Especially in advance for CoD etc. it’s not just the reason of well the joneses have a ps5 so we should. There has to be more to it.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner It all started to go wrong with the disastrous Xbox One launch. They simply haven't recovered or ever will. They have had a stigma for many years that they had no games which is why they went on a spending spree for studios.

They lost the worse generation when people were building digital libraries people won't just swap and loose their games. Many games also don't get a physical release on Xbox and some people will only buy physical.

Xbox series hasn't been advertised very well and launched with no exclusive game due to the terrible state of Halo. Plus all the bad news and vibes from team green with constant mixed messaging. Nobody is convinced that Xbox will be around for much longer so why would people want to invest.

I would have to personally blame this on poor marketing first and foremost. Sony has always been pretty good at marketing (just... forget about those early PS3 ads; that baby one still haunts me every night), while it seems like Microsoft hasn't even been trying. I have seen plenty of ads for the PS5 itself, its accessories, and its first party games. For Xbox I recall seeing Redfall and Starfield ads, although I'm sure that there were a few more which I missed. Marketing is truly important, as it can be crucial for cementing your brand/product into the current cultural zeitgeist. Sony understands this.

Oh, and some questionable decisions along the way haven't helped things. Not like Sony hasn't had controversies, but I swear that there's a new one with Xbox almost every month or two now. For people caught up on these things, that's enough to scare them away.

I honestly thought that Microsoft had a chance at competing well this generation if they played their cards right. Turns out while Sony was playing Poker at the professional level, Microsoft just learned Yu-Gi-Oh 30 minutes ago and decided that they were good to sign up for a regional tournament.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner You must be taking the mick right? It's because of the games. The complete lack of must-play, only-available-on-Xbox games. Compared with Sony Xbox has been a wasteland for years, so why on earth would anyone pick them over PlayStation?

It's almost like saying your platform is crap for about 2 years solid, struggling to release games, and releasing your (some but according to perception all) exclusives on rival platforms, has an effect on people actually wanting to buy your platform.

Deliver the games and the sales will follow.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner the simple answer was summed up by Microsoft themselves. They lost the last gen which was the most important as it is the one where digital took off and folks built a library.

The majority of sales are from casual gamers or parents who simply don't look at it like we do. They spent money and built a digital library on playstation, they see no reason to drop it or buy a second console.

Then the whole 'joneses' reason will come into play as while most of us have both, they just see folks have a PS5, they get a PS5.

@HonestHick i always played my fps games on PC and everything else on xbox, but not anymore, i can take my laptop anywere and buy games for cheap even pc gamepas is cheaper,
not to forget that i got into mods so much, im playing re4 remake now with mods tons of costumes and improvements, and i will be honest also i do cheat on my games, to speed things up, something soft like x4 exp and gold in open world or JRPG games to save time going into random encounters, i dont have much time in my 30s as i did before

I dunno, I bought an X1 day one had three games, traded it for PS4 and rocked with it for the majority of the gen. Bought mostly physical then traded that stuff in for an X1X and the digital games began for me. Don’t know about yall but them casual folks have brand association with Sony. Madden, 2k, CoD, FF (barely). Folks friends play on there, it’s the machine to get. But they ain’t buying games forreal, no account to replacement PS5s. Also media spin. Rule of large numbers. Tekken sold less on XSX well Sony sold second highest after 50 million sold when they should be first also they are the branded fighting game machine nah PC sold the most.

Tbf I'm impressed anyone's still buying xbox at all. The writings clearly on the wall so why bother?

The truth of this situation is that it simply cannot continue. I firmly believe that this is why Microsoft are now the ones calling the shots, and that Phil Spencer is merely a figurehead for Xbox. Yes, he will be passing instructions down the food-chain, but those instructions are coming from on high. He is not the one making the decisions any longer, which is why we see what was previously said now being completely contradicted.

The turning point, in my opinion, was the ABK acquisition, and the failure of Starfield to move the dial on Xbox console sales. Microsoft making the decisions is why we are seeing games that were previously exclusive head over to the PlayStation, and is why we will see pretty much everything do so. Any game that releases as an Xbox exclusive from here on out will be on the PlayStation 6 to 12 months later. The next big title to make the leap will be Starfield towards the end of this year once it has passed the 12 months since its release, and once the DLC has released. I think that Starfield would have made the leap with Hi-Fi Rush etc., but that Microsoft got cold feet when they saw the backlash. I think Phil was able to persuade them then that it was a bad idea then, but the success the games have had since going to the PlayStation means he will have no chance of doing so now.

As for future hardware, I think it highly likely that we will see the much rumoured handset release in the next year or so, but I have my doubts as to whether we will see a proper successor to the Series X. The probabilities are that that too much money has already been invested in the handheld, and it is already close to be manufactured, to not now release it. I don't believe that the next Xbox console is in the same situation, and so I can see Microsoft deciding that enough is enough, and pulling the plug on that prospect.

In all honesty, I'd absolutely love to be proved wrong as my Xbox is my primary console, and I want to see Xbox succeed as both a console manufacturer, and as a games developer and publisher, but I seriously have little hope for the future of the Xbox as a console now, which genuinely saddens me...

This is no surprise. Xbox hasn’t been selling well. I’ve been a fan of Xbox since the beginning, but Xbox’s own worst enemy is itself. I’m always hopeful they’ll turn things around and at the beginning of this generation things looked bright. This past year though has me thinking differently about them.

@HonestHick you can always just keep your xbox around , it doesn’t have to go anywhere you know , lol. I got a PC a couple of years ago pre-built and have had no problems , plus most PC games have controller support so thank god for that

Thanks for the positive news🤮

It is fairly obvious that even used the demand for PS5 is high as if you go to somewhere like CEX the price is much lower for a used Series X than a PS5. The further we get into this generation the more it repeats the previous one.

@themightyant I have trouble understanding how current situation can be seen as anything but grim. On it's own, this could be seen as a flop in transitioned from business model (hardware sales), unless we factor in that game sales for MS owned studios are down, GP subs are stagnating, studios are closing, strong owned IP-s have been absent (ex. Gears), brand communication and PR is on an all time low.. and 3rd party developers are taking notice and have started being vocal about financial feasibility of Xbox ports.
MS can still pump money and turn this around in the long run, and most likely will, but things are looking as bad as they can based on all measurable indicators.

This is just console wars fodder. PlayStation has a bigger cultural penetration than Xbox in regions outside US. We have a huge casuals market playing F2P games in mobiles and consoles, some just want to play Fornite in theirs TVs, and PlayStation is the device they know.

In the dedicated segment, off course there are almost no reasons to buy an Xbox (vs PC), except if you want to enjoy the plug-n-play convenience it offers. Their service is top notch, I'd like to remark.

So, the real question if it's Xbox is selling enough to be sustainable, and attractive for third party partners. My impression is that Microsoft will move to PC architecture.

I know I've been upset with Microsoft's decisions lately but it doesn't change how the company is doing. VGChartz estimates Sony has sold roughly 58 million (the company just announced they're over 59 million so it's close) and Microsoft is at 28 million. It's a little over 2:1.

The thing that matters is revenue and profits. Companies don't disclose profits for individual departments but for revenue Sony did $7 billion last quarter to Microsoft's $7.11 billion. Even if you take away AB's $2 billion in revenue Microsoft made 72% of Sony's revenue with 48% of their boxes.

@nomither6 yeah i may or may not keep the Xbox around if i go PC. Honestly these days i am just happy to play a handful of the games i love and go way down the rabbit hole with them then try a bunch of busted games at launch. If i can play Diablo, Gears of War and Red Dead Redemption then i am fine. I have 800 hours on Diablo 4. The new season 4 is insanely good. So PC would do me just fine for those titles. Of course I’d love to see MS pull its head out of its backside and turn Xbox around. But that is looking like a tall order at this point. They would need a GTA6 level type exclusive game that sells gangbusters and brings every one over to the platform and i don’t see GTA’s growing on trees.

@RedShirtRod thats an excellent point and well delivered. I do think sometimes we forget Xbox makes money. Especially with the ABK move. But man they need to get some hardware out and show how good it can be. Cause the series consoles are well made. Now if we could only get the improved controller that was leaked. Be even better. Good post.

@Kooky_Geezer And back to the real world, Microsoft have already announced a next gen console is underway and the real big difference between Sony and Microsoft now is Games.
Microsoft now hit their target of 4 AAA First Party exclusives per year, but Sony! Not a single First Party AAA exclusive since '2023!' and that was it one game for that year, 2024 not one AAA First party exclusive and the current target is 'April 2025'.
People would be wasting their money if Sony released a mid gen PS5 as you can count the 'actual current gen PS5 developed AAA exclusives' on one hand and new ips are almost non existent.
It's no good selling a lot of consoles if you can hardly get any games out and Sony have a serious problem with ever increasing game devolopment cost vs profit. The announcement that they are going to get their games quicker to PC may help them somewhat.

I thought Xbox would do better this gen, I was wrong. It’s failing miserably against the competition when it comes to selling units. I can also understand why that is, sub par exclusives that were meant to hit big time and and time again and the pivot towards releasing their games everywhere. Why would anyone consider an Xbox over a Sony or Nintendo console at the moment.

The trend will only continue one way imo, ⬇️

@HonestHick I'm with you on this, brotha!

With the $1000+ dollars I spend on buying both Xbox and PlayStation, I could have bought a good gaming laptop to play Microsoft and Sony games at least console settings.
Plus, all the PC games I like from when I was a PC gamer back in the early 2000s.
Plus, emulation.

In the end, it really does feel like the better deal. Sure, I lose most of the purpose of my 4K TV as I'd be playing most games at like 1080p on a laptop, but the amount of games at my disposal is significantly higher.

I think if Microsoft doesn't manage to successfully make the "Xbox PC" for next generation, I will look into migrating to PC rather than clogging up my entertainment center with multiple consoles (well, except a Nintendo console, which I will always buy).

@Ricky-Spanish @RedShirtRod @fbnaulin Well, it's a Ben's article, what did you expect? 🤣

Well, yeah, the only metrics that matter these days is revenue and profits. It's not SNES vs. Mega Drive consoles sold anymore. There are twice as many PS5 than Series S|X consoles, but Xbox is doing great. Better than PS, even. Consoles are just another tool for selling and marketing their gaming business. Xbox has become huge and selling games and subscriptions to the different kind of players there are makes total sense for a huge hardware and software company.

Besides, since they own Windows and Xbox and Windows are becoming progressively even more unified, it really doesn't matter if people play on console or PC, not even for third parties. It's an old strategy that started last generation, when all big games started being released not just for consoles but also for Windows, so it was easy to port them to Xbox One that started using Windows as OS, e.g., Tales of Arise on Windows, Xbox One, Xbox Series S|X, PS4 and PS5 on day one. Xbox One X got more enhanced games than PS4 Pro, some of them based on the PC releases, that are based on Windows.

Xbox without Windows and without PC would probably be endangered, but as long as there is a console market and Windows and PC exist, they are totally fine as part of the same ecosystem. It's a no-brainer for Microsoft to be part of that market. The revenue is too high there, in spite of the competition (Sony and Nintendo) and even considering that the console market is limited and has its own and new competition. Then, there is Cloud, mobile devices, TV apps...

@PsBoxSwitchOwner Why would you by a console if you have a PC? Would be better off buying a Playstation/Switch for the games you can't play Day 1.

Why upgrade to a Series S/X? Most games are out on XB1S/X and some of the next gen games can be played on Cloud.

Why buy a Series S/X? Despite the 'Promise' of games from all these Acquisitions over the past 5yrs, we are still waiting for Fable, Perfect Dark etc. Redfall & Starfield over the past few years maybe aren't the 'killer' games to bring people in when up against Spider-Man, R&C, Horizon, God of War. Where are the Games that will bring in the Players?

It's all very well having one of the 'best' value hardware or services, but if the Content isn't really there 'yet', despite all that potential, Especially as the Console Hardware is not necessary to play the 'few' games you may want to play, its not going to tempt people in.

Not only that, if we look at the state of the world in many regions, its understandable why they aren't spending money on Gaming. Its not the 'dedicated' Hardcore gamers - they have the Hardware, they still buy games/content, but its an expensive leisure activity in a economically difficult time for many who would rather 'wait' for Sales, buy 'used' Games/Hardware etc or play the free/old games they have instead of spending money on 'new'.

Xbox and Sony are still selling Hardware, just not at the quantity they had predicted, expected and/or projected. Instead of selling 20m this year as 'predicted', they may only sell 10m. I can't really think of a 'big' game release in the last 6months or so for Microsoft - Sony had Helldivers 2 at least...

@Cikajovazmaj I completely agree. Despite what anyone says I refuse to believe that MS don't view console sales as important. You don't spend millions developing a new console with features such as quick resume, auto HDR and a massive backwards compatibility programme and simple not care if people buy it.
Privately I would imagine that the higher ups are very concerned about the figures and trying to work out what they can do to improve sales.

@BRT15 Video cards have HDMI ports, the same Xbox controllers work on PC, and keyboards and mice are wireless. Have fun PC gaming on the couch.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ary_UaxKSG2XvbJ3BMMkXQiOSEcPhA

Works for me just fine.

Xbox is definitely not doing so hot on the hardware front. They still have a few cards up their sleeve so it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few years.

Game Pass growth may be slowing significantly, but it’s still an immensely popular sub service, one that will only get better and better as Ms’s first party releases really start dropping regularly. They still have COD and I wouldn’t underestimate what that one game can do to help turn the tables. Supposedly their next console is gonna be a huge leap forward for consoles, so I guess we’ll see about that as well.

Xbox may be down, but they aren’t out yet. They were seeing record revenue even before the ABK deal and they are making more per gamer than both Nintendo and Sony. As long as the people running MS and Xbox get their sh*t together fast and make some good moves and good games in the next couple years, anything is possible. Again, will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

so its about 2:1 last gen as it is now. but the way ms/xbox talks and acts im sure xbox sales will tank hard before next gen.

"Analyst claims." Stopped reading after that. I will wait until the companies report profit.

And with the way that Microsoft are doing everything possible to shoot themselves in the foot and destroy the Xbox brand it could be 10 to 1 by Christmas.

@Kevw2006 I mean, it's completely possible they have pivoted and changed strategy from hardware sales mid-gen. Actually, if that model was failing, that is the right and commendable move.
It's just that in my observer eye, the other metrics are failing too.

@cburg great comment.
Xbox is behind Playstation in the console market. What's new? It has always been like this. Nothing's changed guys.
I'm hearing Xbox is dying since the days of the OG Xbox (even when surpassed Windows in revenue). There's news about Xbox death every week. I'll wait until it actually dies.

@Cikajovazmaj That is a possibility, however MS having already confirmed that they are working in new hardware the will be the biggest technical leap ever. That, along with talk of them launching the next generation early to try and get a head start suggests to me that the console market is still very much important to them.

@Foxx_64740 Good point, as Xbox is now the third largest business at Microsoft, just behind Office and Cloud and ahead of Windows. How that means that Xbox is dying according to some people is anyone's guess, probably simple wishes coming from die-hard fans of other gaming platforms.

@TakeItEasy I've played on PC since PS1 launched. All platforms have their uses. I play on PC and Xbox now (along with Steam Deck). The convenience of having PC and a machine in the living room with "Play Anywhere" is welcome.

@Weapon_Wheel I am pretty sure MS has been there the whole time, granting and revoking permissions and funding. Xbox did not gain any new studios until 2018 (a deficit stretching back to the 360 days). Scalebound, Quantum Break, ReCore, Fable 4, and Crackdown were long in development and a paltry set of titles. Most of these games either never arrived or were not in the greatest shape when they did.

While a company needs to keep spending in check, Phil and crew has been handcuffed for much of their run. He was promoted after the Kinect investment went down to the toilet.

Xbox will never die 😎

@GamingFan4Lyf i’’m right there with my friend. I am going to see how they do over the next year or so and continue to save money on the side. Cause of course i am going all in if i do PC. Never did PC gaming before. So i want all the settings HAHA 4090 or 5090 and treat myself. However i would like to hear more about what the next Xbox is before doing so. Plus i am weird and love to save money and then find a reason not to have to use it. At least we would save on GP and PSN a year. For me thats $200 a year or so. Plus i can finally play redneck rampage.. haha

@PsBoxSwitchOwner same reason why people believe playstation has better exclusives when all their games are 12h movies... Brand loyalty.

@Steel76 yeah that's what I've been thinking about recently. Get a decent PC setup in a nice compact encasing (essentially build my own console)

@themightyant The comparison between Sony and Microsoft's revenue wasn't meant to knock Sony, only to show that they are indeed apples verse oranges. Comparing consoles means very little anymore as Microsoft is most likely pulling a large portion of their gaming revenue for other sources. Doesn't matter if Sony outsells Microsoft on consoles 2 to 1 or 20 to 1, if they both are pulling in the same revenue and profits, they both are doing equally well.

@MrBook me neither... Yea the 12h was a Spiderman 2 joke it may not be 12h for all games but still... I bet you could do it faster tho 😂

PS: I played the "broken" redfall more than 34h and it wasn't even close to the best games i played on xbox. For me its more important to have more things to do in a game rather than having a good story.

@Kevw2006 The theory, on the doomsday side is that basically it was Phil's program at Xbox that brought Quick resume and all the great features they developed, but when it basically proved to be a market dead end, especially after ABK, corporate stepped in, and while Phil cared about growing console, corporate does not and would rather just become a big multiplat publisher. An Xbox 180 if you will.

The other theory, the good theory, isn't so different. That they've basically given up on Series as a dead and are in, as Bond put it "transition" (like Reggie's post Wiiu, Pre-NX speech) basically just lame duck waiting for the next gen hardware to start for yet another "brand reboot."

@themightyant While you're not wrong about games, that still really sidesteps the complaint about the platform. Those games are on PC. Those games may even be on PS. I don't think anyone at all doubts that Microsoft as a publisher is going to make bundles of money and even make some good games. It's platform buyers that are concerned that the platform is going to be ignored or become irrelevant. Right now there's little to be optimistic about other than that they promised there's new hardware.

The problem isn't knee-jerk responses at all. The problem is after years and months of people absorbing every negative infobite (including Microsoft itself repeatedly announcing how terrible it's console business is and has no hope at all during ABK) and being patient and not having knee-jerk reactions, the company has not only done nothing at all to try to get out in front of those perceptions, but they've actually reinforced them. There's only two reasons that a company lets doomsday prophecy run the narrative of their brand. Either total incompetence, or the prophecy is true and they're avoiding admitting it. In MS's case it's 50/50 which one it is, but the fact that it's either one of those is the root of the problem. They can't be silent while they're in a losing place with terrible numbers and public perception is running the narrative that they're basically folding the business. No company lets that happen. But when they talk all we get is Bond's painful avoidance, and Nadella boasting how awesome selling on Playstation is. That's doing opposite of helping. That's not incompetence, that's almost mocking his own customers in public. When you have former executives getting out there to volunteer pep talks and brand positivity statements but saying they need to pick a direction and communicate that because they're not doing that clearly, and even then the company still has nothing official to say while former leaders speak for them, something is really wrong at the brand.

If During WiiU's darkest days, in response to the woes of the platform, Iwata's answer was "Mario Kart is the top preorder on Xbox One! We're beating Forza on its own platform! And look at these Super Mario Run numbers, iOS is great! We're putting Kirby and Kart on Xbox. Not Mario and Zelda, but it's a test for other other games, not Mario and Zelda, just Kart and Kirby but it's a test for other games, but not Mario, but we're not ruling anything out, we're just seeing how it goes with Kirby. Did I mention Kirby is Xbox's top preorder? Our games are doing great on Xbox! We don't really like exclusives anyway. And we're launching Mario and Zelda day one on PC too. Oh, also we're making NX, gonna' be great." And then closed Intelligent and then said nothing at all. I don't think Switch's launch would have been so good...

@RedShirtRod That's a very good point, but the one thing we don't know that matters most is, did that revenue come from those 50% of boxes, or did that revenue come mostly from PC, MOBILE, and PS's 59 million users? It all means nothing to console players if MS's gaming revenue isn't coming from their consoles. It just means that's a dead branch on the tree.

@Cikajovazmaj To be fair and contradict myself, as a WiiU owner, things for Nintendo were twice as bleak as they are for Xbox now, and look at Nintendo the very next gen. Things can be turned around. The only difference is that Nintendo wanted to turn it around and I don't know if Hood and Nadealla actually want to or if they like things the way they are as "New Activision."

@TakeItEasy Somewhat agree, but ironically I was thrilled to leave the horrors of pcmr *** ***ery and go back to the chill console pleb world a few gens back. I don't think the PC fanbase sucks any less, I just think the console fanbase now sucks just as much as PC's always did. It's the 360 dudebros. The Nintendo and Sony fanbases were chill back in the PS3 era. 360 was insufferable. Then in PS4 they all jumped from XB to PS. And then somehow Nintendo fans became that, too.

I wouldn't trust any numbers coming from sony as they seem to be counting portal sales as console sales as well. Lets not forget they count shipped to retailers as sold

@PsBoxSwitchOwner

Reasons (not mine):

1) I'll get PS coz mates all have one.

2) Marketing. In the UK PS marketing has been very visible. But Xbox... nothing. It's like they're not even trying. I swear younger kids probably haven't even heard of Xbox here.

3) Hardware design. As an old fart, I love the series X design. It fits unobtrusively and tastefully into our media centre... and has a satisfactory spouse acceptance factor 😆. The PS design, whilst not to my taste, probably looks very cool to a 13 year old boy pestering his parents for a new console.

4) Something about Xbox just ain't "cool"... whatever that is. Not that I think PS is cool. But I think for teens that the Xbox has more of a corporate stink to it... and probably perceived as a bit boring. A bit like owning an Acorn Electron (for those old enough to know what I'm gibbering on about).

I had the OG Xbox, then the 360... Swerved the xbone and got a PS4... then had a big decision to make on the current gen. I gambled on Series X. Had some good times with it... but still not sure if I've made the right decision. The uncertainty around the future of Xbox, due to its poor performance relative to PS, has me wondering what I'll do next gen.
PC is not the answer for me... I like gaming from the couch with a simple console.UI.

@antstephenson PS5 lights up? Does XSX light up? No, it does not. 13 year old cred confirmed.

Yeah, Xbox is very utilitarian looking. It's a video game appliance. A VCR for video games. I can see that selling well with the older crowd and not the tasteless young crowd. And definitely the Microsoft name is a problem of its own. It's a name associated with corporations. Maybe associated with schoolwork. Not what kinds what for funtime. And it doesn't have a brand image at all. It's just an Xbox, it's not associated with a certain group appeal. I don't mean characters, but a whole "lifestyle". Sony's main schtick is lifestyle branding. Xbox is like a PC. A tool to get a job done. But unlike PC gaming with nerd appeal, it doesn't have that either.

Then again are kids even into consoles? Not anymore.

@MrBook lots of people have the same opinion as you. I only played the first one on ps3 and for me it was meh. Never got an other playstation console to play the second. I played all ps games that were ported on pc only liked horizon and not enough to make me wana buy a ps5. The only ps exclusives i m interesting in are the Final Fantasy games and well i prefer waiting for pc port rather than getting a second high end console for 2 games.

Some good positive news and I look forward to the bright future of Xbox. I have a Series X, it works, I play game pass so I'm all good.

@NEStalgia you sir made me laugh so hard 🤣🤣
Thing is, and this might be because English ain't my primary language, but that is exactly how Xbox leadership sound to me when they were giving updates. Nintendo/Sony will publish a professional text, Phil will do an interview full of pauses, lapses, contradictions..

On a separate note, I happen to like PS design over XSX, exactly because it sticks out. XSX/S is just efficiently boring, it's a thing you stick in a server room. Reminds me of Silicon valley, when they were building Black box..

@Tomato_Goose do i care what they discuss with each other? no i care that they speak out loud when someone f* with them and thats really matters because every company thinks twice.....in the other side sony is a holy being on earth and can do everything and get a free pass, and xbox....well its xbox even them dont know what there doing!! and the Second they have the chance the bite their fans!! so yeah i like how ruthless pc gamers are and i hate how softy console fans are accepting every bad decision and cheer for there box
its like the meme with the dog in a burning house saying ''everything is fine''

@MrBook we talking about real football or soccer ? 🤭

Sad news to be sure. I prefer xbox to PS5 but I will say between the two PS5 currently has more must own games. They also got a lot of great franchises first and held them as exclusives for longer (like a dragon for instance ). Which is sad considering imo series x is better hardware (battery life on the dual sense is trash) That being said I am a Bethesda diehard so at least until TES6 comes out (redoing my PC at that point) I will focus on xbox and gamepass. At this point Sony’s PC ports will determine if I get a PS6 or start to phase out (only because I want them to finish the Horizon series).

I do feel like Xbox needs a major showcase. Show some good exclusives and highlight the great multiplats.

PS5 has better games & the better system. It’s no surprise. PS4 also smoked Xbox One.

I had a PS4 Pro and was waiting and waiting (and waiting) for that "next-gen" essential to make it necessary to jump to PS5. But it still doesn't feel like this generation ever started. I got a promotion and celebrated by buying a Series S - all the "next-gen" stuff that I was sort-of-kind-of interested in (Alan Wake 2, Dead Space remake, and soon Hellblade 2) were available here for me to 'dip my toe' into this gen without going "all in" on a PS5.

So I got what I wanted from Series S. But from Microsoft's perspective, they've failed to seduce me a customer. Series S is my "try before you buy" - my unfinished Elden Ring cloud save is still on my PS account and one day, once I feel like this generation finally has a flagship game (i.e. GTA 6 ) I'll "go home" to PS5. I'm a weird hybrid of hardcore-and-casual; true casuals wouldn't have hopped over to Xbox "for a bit", and hardcores wouldn't at this point knowingly invest in a doomed platform or hobble themselves with something as weak as Series S. If people like me are the only ones buying Series S then it was a failed experiment; there can't be more than like, seven people on planet Earth in my little bracket of hardocore-ish-casuals. So then who was Series S for?

edit: Oh man and biggest of all - if everything exclusive is going to PS5 anyway then it's truly a pointless console

Crazy how they went from 360 to this.

@NEStalgia "things for Nintendo were twice as bleak as they are for Xbox now"

Not really. That's sorta like saying Sony was on the edge of the abyss due to the failure of the PS Vita.

Nintendo has always survived on the sales of its handheld console line. Aside from Wii, their home console sales were in freefall from generation to generation.

Also, the Wii U actually had a lot of great first-party games, unlike Xbox. Nintendo's ability to output fantastic software wasn't in contention like it is with a lot of MS' studios.

I mean, things are obviously much better now, but it's not like we wouldn't have gotten more portables from them in the future.

Now if the Switch had failed...

@themightyant A brand needs to know when its image is in trouble and correct it. This isn't a successful brand facing some random twitter controversy. This is a brand that's openly in freefall in its numbers now supplying its main competitor with both social media and the actual media publicly debating if the brand is even viable, for a period of many months leading to further erosion of it's last remaining key market as its competitor gains market share there. I can't even think of an equivalent scenario to use as comparison because any other brand would have been out in front of the PR correcting itself a long time before it got to this. That's why PR managers exist. The only even relevant what-if I can think of is Xbox itself, if you imagine after E3 2013 they simply stuck with #dealwithit and held onto Kinekt for dear life and signed a 10 year deal for Matrick. There is simply no competent brand that lets their PR get to this low a low, unless, again, they are incompetent, or they don't actually have a message to save it. This isn't even just robotic reiterating of feel-good mission statements to reinforce their position, it's just watching the flames out the window and ignoring them.

The business update highlights the problem. They let speculation swirl a full week after it began while they tried to figure out a message, escalating the damage (complete and total PR 101 failure) and their high profile attempt at damage control ended up causing more damage because their not only didn't resolve their position but gave every appearance they were avoiding answering the question. It's like a politician responding to allegations they're screwing the intern with statements about their record on the economy. Is MS/Xbox avoiding saying "yes, it's all true" by talking in circles and vague half-statements, or are they just so incompetent they don't even realize they're talking in circles and avoiding addressing the problem? Coin toss. PR silence, and letting the media answer for them isn't a normal business decision though. Eventually the media creates truth and it becomes reality to the public even if it's false.

Xbox may or may not be doomed. Nadella may or may not be trying to kill it like he's killed every single consumer facing initiative MS has had to date. We have no idea. But Xbox is killing itself by not managing PR at a junior varsity level either way. The current strategy of ignore the PR, and hope the problem fixes itself isn't exactly fixing their sales hole.

For a better PR example look at Sony. Not their consumer PR of which there's been little, but their investor PR. They're spinning bad news like a tilt-a-whirl into good news. Their numbers are surprisingly bleak considering they're a pseudo-monopoly at this point, but boy are they spinning it all as a rosy outlook to the point you can't help believe them. But it's easy for them to spin bad into good when they're running the market.

@Ralizah I mean Sony was on the edge of the abyss due to the failure of PS3. Yeah, Nintendo survives on its handhelds, but 3DS while successful was way down from DS, and they were genuinely in the red for a while, and Reggie openly admitted that had the Switch not been a hit they may have folded. Similar was said by Shu Yoshida of PS4. Granted, Nintendo sits on so much cash reserve it barely harmed them, but the same could be said for MS.

Despite MS's software missteps, the funny thing is nobody really is doubting their ability to be a successful publisher, especially after buying out so many strong brands. It's purely about their role as a platform holder there's doubt, and their own actions are what generates most of the doubt. 343 is in ruins, but despite Starfield's missteps nobody doubts Todd's team is a hit-maker, and anybody that pays attention knows what happened with Redfall (and now they've "taken care of the problem", like sending Vinnie the Brick to clean up a "misunderstanding.")

That's the thing with XB, they have the money, and nobody really legitimately questions they have the software. What seems to be lacking is the will to actually leverage any of it to make a successful market. In a vacuum maybe none of that would even matter, but where it becomes a problem is it fits into a long term pattern for Microsoft across many of its products, where they've killed basically.....everything. Nadella makes big money by investing big money and operating MS like a hedge fund instead of a tech company, and that makes investors happy, but he's jeopardized almost all their actual business lines aside. Their main business isn't really tech anymore, it's finance. They're a bigger Bain Capital that happens to have an OS.

They don't even back their own plans. For years it was cloud gaming cloud gaming cloud gaming. Now they barely mention it, they make no active efforts on it, promised features remain awol with no comment, and they got rid of the guy running cloud and moved him into "AI" (the whole company's central focus), then totally got rid of him and rolled the department into.....hardware......under Bond's "ecosystem" (i.e. Xbox) division. Of course it's now clear that "cloud cloud cloud" really meant "finding a way onto mobile" and in buying King they found a better way and no longer need cloud much.

@themightyant I certainly hope you're right because I'm looking at $3k in PC parts spend and rebuying half my library if you're wrong

I think, on it's own, it would not be so bleak. But I think what makes it bleak for Xbox isn't the fearmongers. It's the reactions from the people we trust at MS that indicates they're not at the wheel anymore, coupled with the history of Nadella's strategies overall. There's a lot of assumptions happening, but they're not unfounded assumptions, they're assumptions that come from a pattern. I suppose more specifically I don't like Xbox because it's Xbox, I like Xbox because the vision of what Xbox is that Phil has been building since 2016 or so resonated with me and fit my use perfectly. If it's not Phil's vision of Xbox, and they're not clear on what their vision of Xbox is, then I don't actually know what Xbox is to me. And that's a question that won't be answered for a year or two. But, I'm still interested in the presentation....but also the cynical side. Is it Phil or Nadella presenting. Is it all "launches first on". Is it PC, PC, PC, oh and Xbox too. etc. It's not what they say that will matter, it's how they say it and what they don't say

PS's numbers....eh....that's not so hot given their total market dominance. They're nearly a monopoly in most of the world and their numbers are still down. The numbers that were up seem to have weird spin on them "network services + advertising" etc. It's like MS hiding Xbox sales behind Surface. And PS itself admitted they expect sales decline for the second half. They don't say that lightly I'm sure. And that would include their expectations of a GTA6/Pro spike. I'd say that's surprisingly bleak. No PS isn't folding, but the market is looking....awful.

@Steel76 Because it's not practical for everyone? They either don't want to run a cable from one room to another or they don't want to have a tower sitting in their living room. You can stream, but then you're bringing latency into the equation.

@GeorgeKal All of their games are movies? Stellar Blade? Rise of Ronin?

@MrBook Not sure why tying your identity to a video game console is any weirder than the other examples you used. It's all strange.

@Weapon_Wheel Why don't you want to go Nintendo, PlayStation, or PC? You have three other options and you don't like any of them? Lol

@themightyant This...might take a while....and a few posts

Haha, yeah, I totally hear you on avoiding the long exchanges and trying to spend more time playing instead of talking, I'd successfully gone AWOL for months until someone dragged me back in just as Xbox was blowing up and ended up back here lol. Someday....

That was a good summary, and I get where you're coming from. I think that defines a theoretically idea and well run organization, and how it would behave, what it's reasoning would be, and how it's power distribution would work.

But....

It also describes a theoretical well run egalitarian efficient business operating ideally in a difficult situation. We're not talking about that theoretical organization. We're talking about Microsoft. There's a certain history and baggage that carries that can't be ignored. Nadella has a rock-solid history of laying waste to any product line he just doesn't like the trend on, that doesn't fit in with his very narrow vision, forcing product lines to conform to his narrow vision even if it kills them (even when they're much bigger pillars of the company than Xbox is), and generally devastating anything that's connected to physical hardware in any shape. Unless it's printing money, which Xbox consoles are not, he dislikes them existing on the books. He has a rock solid history of making large purchases and then immediately gutting the thing he purchased because it was never about purchasing the thing, it was about asset stripping. Maybe he accomplishes this by issuing edicts of reducing x%, etc, but no mistake he does so with extreme targets such that the self desctuction is the "choice" of his subordinates. None of the various product lines have made the rediculous decisions under his leadership that they have that have harmed their long term success under reasonable orders. None of them have played executive musical chairs of their own will because of external factors.

Then we have the fact that, whether these decisions are a result of having become bloated, the history of ABK's value of being multiplat, etc, these would have been known factors before the buyout. Moreover we know that the push to become so bloated by buying ABK came not from Phil, but from Amy Hood, and the goal was their mobile business (we return to asset stripping. A Microsoft smash hit since before Nadella's time.) I.E. being saddled with so much baggage that required being in a position to be told to cut x amount was the primary result of corporate interference to saddle the existing console business with too much overhead that fundamentally breaks its business plan in order to extract a completely different business in a completely different market from the result. It doesn't count as choice if the loan shark coerces you by force to take the loan, then comes to collect claiming you made a choice to owe them.

Bottom line is in terms of organization, we have enough history and insight as to the thinking of the corporate leadership to be able to see deeper into it than your normal business operations expections might see. I don't think there's any room for debate that corporate now calls the shots directly, and Phil's role is little more than figurehead now.

@themightyant
Regarding the two promises they've (kind of) made, yes, there will be another generation, I do believe that, and I believe my theory on a PC hybrid console is really their only possible direction in their position. It may serve them well. It may also provide an offramp to just move everyone to actual PC in time as well. I think they HAVE to make the Xbox a PC at this point. I think they're going to lose too many games if it's bespoke hardware again. At this point they only reason any publisher publishes on XB at all is that it holds a chunk of the USA. Other than that it has almost no real value in any market for a publisher.

Now about the promise that all games on game pass day 1. Something has to give there unless they can start exploding # of subs, but I don't see that as possible. I think there's three possible outcomes there. "All coming to GP D1" could mean "for the next 6 months until we reverse course and change that abruptly and move the goal posts and tell you "we didn't say forever." It could mean "All coming to a new tier of GP for Day 1 ABK releases we haven't announced yet that will make this statement true technically but not the way you think", It could mean they plan to raise the price to LOL levels and implode it through sudden subscriber loss. It could mean a lot of things. Bond reiterating that boldly seemd almost out of place for the rest of their tone where nothing is defined. I almost wonder if that was thrown out there defiantly to force corporate's hand. Props if so.

Getting to the concerns, I think most of the concerns aren't coming from the knee-jerk OMG they're going to PS! reactions. Honestly I think PS would be on Xbox if Xbox had, well, any market share at all. No, I think the concerns come from people that know Nadella's style and history, and see the cannons being set by the border and the tents going up around it are speculating they're gearing up for a war while other's insist "maybe Napoleon's just holding a carnival?"

I think we, myself included, have spent a lot of time thinking like a normal business, that wants to improve it's success and turn the fortunes of a product, and not thinking in line with Nadella. And not thinking in line of the purpose of the gaming division to be to make the most possible money from the total market of gaming, not to specifically be a successful console. After all Microsoft's PC gaming division predates Xbox by a wide margin, Xbox was an emergency response to PS stealing Windows gaming market, and then Xbox consumed all of MS gaming (leading to their top tier PC studios getting closed.) In a world where PS is publishing on PC, is Xbox actually necessary for them? Isn't a world where MS makes PC games and PS isn't a threat to that the world the Xbox was supposed to create from 1999? Mission accomplished? Selling a lot of software is their goal. If the console isn't helping them do that, and worse, hinders them from doing that....why do they have it? Yes, understanding gaming in ways he does not, we know the value of holding the platform. But we're talking about a man that couldn't even see the value of the desktop PC monopoly holding a stake in the mobile phone market against its two biggest rivals even if it was at a loss. He doesn't think the way we do. It's made him a ton of money....but at a cost to long term strategies for short term windfalls.

@themightyant Ultimately, it's 50/50 you're right And that's the problem. They may be planning to do things just as you laid out. Or they may be planning to shut down unsatisfactory performing conosle. Or they may try to eat their cake and have it to and limp along a flagging console, half morphed into PC with a low install base to reinforce their brand. Like Surface (for now.) Problem is, we don't know. and they won't hint, leading to #3 of your points in your concerns. With a 50/50 total uncertainty a chunk of their community absolutely will jump ship. And the more that happens the more damaging the spiral becomes. Phil told Nadella years ago they need to go all in. But they're not. They're tiptoeing around, avoiding committing to any long term vision, changing the vision every few months. That doesn't build confiedence. If the company can't commit to an absolute vision and strategy for a long term platform because they don't have confidence in any particular long terms strategy, why should consumers back a meandering platform on a quest to find itself? They need an absolute message of "this is what Xbox is, this is where Xbox is going, this is what to expect." They did that in 2017. They did that in 2020. Then since then they've "adjusted" that vision half a dozen times, and then decided to simply avoid having a vision. How is that supposed to get buy-in?

The big problem is it's no longer about building a market, or preventing a PR/community decline. It's about reversing that. It's a community that's already pessimistic and getting tired of guessing what is or isn't next. And that bleeds into the casual market that knows there's a cloud around it. I'm not sure an all GAMES showcase can help much. Yes people will be excited about some games. That will also be on PC. And might also be on PS. And the less people buy an Xbox the more likely it'll be on PS. Doesn't matter if it's timed exclusive, or full exclusive, if the public believes it might be on PS that's all that matters. They need to talk hardware, they need to make platform direction clear, and they absolutely are not doing that. By opening pandoras box and not tying games to platform, they gave up their ability to use games to boost platform. They need platform to boost platform now. Where we are now, we had Phil saying "we don't want console players to feel second rate, Xbox is still the core of our brand", followed by announcement after announcement that put console plebs in their place, pretty much. Starfield's "vision" of 30fps on console, alone, did damage to console enthusiasts, only for a year later to go "lol we were wrong console does 60fps just fine!" They don't need Sony, they've got Todd undermining them from within. Does the consuming public care? No. Does the Xbox faithful care? Yes. And right now they need the Xbox faithful marketing the thing for them....because they sure as heck won't.

@themightyant
Personally? I almost don't care if they stick with the consoles, or want to ditch the consoles and just go PC. I was playing Microsoft games before Xbox was a thing. I despised Xbox because it consumed and devoured Microsoft PC gaming as they went all in on console and abandoned Windows gamers. It's kind of full circle. But what I want is for them to be clear about their direction. The console is the most cost effective, convenient solution with some of the benefits of PC. I don't want a $1500 rig I have to tweak and upgrade and tune and use a keyboard for to do what my $500 box does, only to be surpassed by miles by a $700 box in 2 years, sometimes better, sometimes worse. But if they're going back to their PC roots, just do it and let me know rather than having me guess and hemming and hawing for the next 10 years while I build a dead-end library.

To your last edited point: I do see them trying to forge a unique path, and I don't think they care about competing with Sony at all at this point. I do see them merging with PC. But I also wonder at what point hardware cost and featre difference means there's not much reason to buy it vs a PC. We know it'll be more expensive, we don't know by how much. It may get to a point that it's not "Xbox or PC" as a choice but simply "an Xbox PC or another PC" to the point there's really no such thing as "Xbox" anyway. It's just the name of a premade PC with a custom launcher, while the services will work on any PC. And that may not be a bad future. But also one you can just get a head start on now. The real value of consoles is the hardware subsity and simplifed UI. Without a hardware subsidy, it's a lot less interesting.

@themightyant lol ohhhhh, yeah.... If you're missing the context of the history of Nadellas warpath through Microsofts product portfolio You're missing a lot of context for the reactions.

When he first arrived on the scene he said all the right things, great things, it felt like a new beginning for Microsoft. What he said and what he did are very different things. We're not taking Xbox even just core MS pillars and markets.

I've said in other threads but the problem with Nadella is, yeah, he's financially created a lot of value, but he's done it at the cost of knocking the pillars out from under the structure. He doesn't run it as a tech company, he runs it as a hedge fund. Makes shareholders rich. But it's a hollow house of cards where not even windows is safe anymore.

Ol Jimbo is amateur hour next to him. Only difference was satya stayed out of gaming until abk was on auction.

It WAS amusing watching Jim go up against him though. It was like watching someone from the local gym take on Mike Tyson at peak.

@themightyant LOL no worries, I spent the weekend working on my test run of migrating from XB to PC on a Legion and spent countless hours troubleshooting problems that are not yet resolved........yet, ironically (or not) 100% of the errors to troubleshoot involved Xbox, Game Pass, and the Windows Store. If I excise everything Xbox and GP, the PC conversion is 100% peachy. Not sure if that's a sign to stick with Xbox to the end and dodge the PC mess, or to run overboard and swim to Gabe Island and away from Xbox anything as fast as humanly possible.

On the upside now that I'm running a Legion I can officially steal your avatar since I'm back on all 4 platforms again, begrudgingly. Though I prefer that generic "PC" icon they put on game boxes, rather than the Steam logo...it under-represents the rest of PC

Phil answering to Nadella: Phil always had to REPORT to Nadella, but I'm not sure he was ANSWERING to him on a day-by-day level, outside overall direction like launching new consoles etc. By all appearances Xbox ran itself like a separate subsidiary until ABK where it started running as a division.

Really not unlike with SIE that for many years ran mostly independent, but, also like MS, corporate took an interest and assumed direct control when the numbers stopped working. Except MS corporate is a lot more troublesome.

Though I'd argue the only reason "Microsoft Gaming" now exceeds Windows is because Satya butchered Windows market with a baseball bat to the knees with Windows 11 insanity.

Game Pass subs: First they have to make the Windows Store not be a trainwreck if they're going to get anywhere with GP on PC given my experience over the weekend.

I do think they can boost subs, but it depends on them not screwing up desirability of GP. Given their penchant for turning gold into poo, I do question their ability to not shoot themselves in both feet with pricing, tiering, controversy gaffes. But the potential is there.

Nadella: It depends what fans. Anyone that followed the XB 2013 disaster watched Nadella appointed partially BECAUSE he was willing to close down XB and that's what shareholders wanted at the time. Also his desire to close winphone which he did do. So for those long time watchers, killing XB is part of why he has the job to begin with. However, he didn't do that, asked Phil's input, and followed it. Unfortunately, Phil's strategies haven't worked out and that puts the ball back in Nadella's court. Those who follow MS outside Xbox certainly are familiar with Nadella, and I daresay a lot of XB's market is of people otherwise involved in the PC world, and probably pretty familiar with his tenure.

Had to laugh there was business rag article just today talking about Nadella's long term forward thinking and success etc etc, all gushing and praising and I'm thinking "huh"? Naturally the article was yet another cheer-leading piece on AI, AI, AI, nothing but AI. As every business rag is full of, probably with the articles written by AI...

Though it touches on one of the key problems. In Nadella's current world, there is nothing but AI, nothing but AI exists. Nothing but AI matters. And a lot of products are suffering for that, because that's the big industry money pot.