Microsoft Is Expecting Two New PS5 Models In The 'Near Future'

Unrelated to this article. I wanna know if xbox will be at the Tokyo Games Show in September?

I’m definitely interested in a PS5 Pro, likewise for a Series X equivalent. If it means full 4K @60 fps with Ray-tracing then I’m in 🙂

And how did Microsoft get hold of this information and also why share this information instead of Sony.

I’ve been eyeing up PS5 Digital a lot lately, but have remained stubborn in my desire for a more compact Slim revision. Likely a day 1 purchase for me as soon as Sony offer a slim refresh.

@Nightcrawler71
Not happening. That beast of a console would have to be about $1000 and that's not going to fly in console territory IMO. I've just sold my gaming PC with a Ryzen 7, RTX 3070 and 32 GB of RAM and I could play CP2077 at 1440p/60 with RTX on ultra and my PC was sweating bullets, generating a lot of noise and heat. The console folks have little idea just how taxing RTX is on the GPU and the hardware in general. Also, aside from a select few titles like CP2077 it just isn't worth the cost. Not to mention that Xbox would have to partner with nVidia as only their RTX cards handle RTX due to DLSS. As MS prefers AMD (cause their GPUs are cheaper) I don't see this happening.
Edit: that PC cost me $1200.

I don't really understand what Microsoft is doing here with their consoles. The prices make no sense, at least in the US market.

The 1TB XSS is $349 compared to $399 for the PS5 digital/slim. But the PS5 vastly outperform the XSS for only a $50 difference.

@evan23 I guess they wouldn't have known about a $400 PS5 Slim at the time they priced it.

That said I'm surprised they didn't got for an all digital Series X

@evan23 I was also thinking this. A discless series X probably would have been a better move.

But I think the 1tb XSS was a bit of a marketing ploy. Instead of saying it’s gone up in price by £20 or whatever. It’s £50 more but you get a bigger SSD. So it sounds a ‘better’ deal, but in reality it still has the price rise included. Common tactic across many companies.

Won't be getting no pro versions of consoles ...seen as we still are releasing last gen for most games

So if the corporate intelligence says there is a PS5 Pro, and Phil Spencer confirmed there is no equivelant on Xbox, we are heading into interesting territory, as once again Sony will have "theoretically the most powerful" console on the market. Which is a bit redundant as Series X and sales of Series S clearly proved being the most powerful console is broadly speaking worth nothing and doesn't help with a console's fortunes one bit.

@gollumb82 It seems like Sony believes a 700-1000 euro console will fly somehow (at least in limited numbers), whether it does the full RTX etc will be interesting to see.

I’m probably going to get a PS5 later this year for Spider-Man 2, plus a lot of the other exclusives I’ve missed out on like Final Fantasy 16, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Ratchet and Clank, etc.

A $400 slim model (with a disc-drive, or at least a detachable one) would probably sell me. That said, I’ll still probably get most third-party titles on my Series X. XBOX controllers are still my favorite to use.

@Nightcrawler71 I’m right there with you. I want a Pro model and i have been very vocal about how i think Sony has a Pro model coming and MS not having one or saying they don’t is a BIG BIG mistake. I would buy a PS5 Pro day one if i could find one. Series X Pro same thing. I want 4K 60 on all games.

@slatyatpion i got the Digital PS5 with the Black plates and it looks pretty good next to the Series X. I didn’t much love it in White in my setup. But the black plates from Sony did make a big difference as you said 😊

@gollumb82 i agree ray tracing is way to taxing and not always worth it. However and i am not a PC guy. But most PC’s waste so much specs in optimization, running the background apps and the Os. Console is so much more better at getting more out of its specs. If the old rumor is true of Sony doing a dual GPU Pro model. The thing will be a BEAST in performance. While i don’t care about ray tracing all that much. I mean it’s nice but i want 4K 60 on all my games if i have the chance and i think the Pro model would give me that. Here’s a link of what could be a monster upgrade to the PS5 base model.

https://www.psu.com/news/sony-patent-suggests-a-dual-gpu-ps5-pro-model-could-be-in-the-works/

@BrilliantBill
Well, Sony likes risk-taking, with mixed results. Their PSVR2 is starting to pop up on auction sites in Poland more and more, as the owners claim most have barely been used. Can't say I'm surprised if you think about how much Sony thinks it's worth. You are right about the most powerful console meaning little, if nothing at all. PS2 was weaker than Xbox but it crushed it with software. The Switch has been the weakest console on the market for years, yet it is hugely successful. However, I suspect most games are still optimised for Playstation as it sells better than Xbox, so that is definitely one of the reasons.

@BrilliantBill the PS5 Pro rumors are interesting and could be a huge advantage for Sony as many on here have said for $50 more dollars you get the more powerful Digital PS5 over the S. I have both the Digital PS5 and the Series X and I rarely see much of a difference in most games. However if Sony does release the rumored dual GPU PS5 Pro, i could see myself buying more games for that. As much as i love the series X controller and mostly tolerate the Dual Sense. I have high end video and Audio equipment and want the full experience i can get. Money isn’t a problem thankfully for me, so i would pay for that option if it existed. Have a read 😊

https://www.psu.com/news/sony-patent-suggests-a-dual-gpu-ps5-pro-model-could-be-in-the-works/

@HonestHick
I get you, but it's a fallacy to think any console, no matter the config, will be a 4K/60 machine for longer than 2 years into its lifecycle. Hardware ages like milk, sadly and no matter what specs you're rocking it will stay that way. That's why streaming could one day take over. Imagine paying a sub for a service like Geforce Now and not having to worry about specs ever again. The only thing stopping me from subbing to it is the poor games library, but that can change quickly. One final example: my PC (bought it almost a year ago) went from being capable of running CP2077 at 1440p/60/RTX on ultra to being able to run CP2077 Phantom Liberty at 1080p/60/high/RTX on low. In a matter of one year, a drop like that. This pissed me off and led to my selling it and just sticking to consoles for the time being.

@gollumb82 Yes, unfortunately Xbox doesn't have that many teams that truly know how to squeeze a console and get stunning graphics out of it. We are still waiting for Hellblade 2, Gears 6 etc to do that. So an even more powerful console won't change Xbox's fortunes much.
On the contrary Sony has many of these teams and if they really push that Pro console all the way they might be able to produce some stunning output. Meanwhile Multiplatform games will probably take the lazy way out as they did back then with Pro/One X and just give you slightly higher res and frame rate.

@HonestHick Personally I think that while the situation with Series S and PS5 DE is very bad for Xbox, at the end of the day the decision between Series S vs PS5 DE comes down to the games. The slightly cheaper Series S doesn't give you GoW: Ragnarok, but the vastly superior hardware in PS5 DE won't be running Starfield, Avowed etc. The audience first chooses the ecosystem and then picks the lowest barrier of entry they can afford (or the highest with a PS5 Pro).

@BrilliantBill
Good points. However, if the PS5 gets pushed to its limits I sure hope it doesn't sound and act like PS4 PRO lol. I still have nightmares from playing GoW and TLoU2 on that thing.

@UltimateOtaku91

And how did Microsoft get hold of this information

Same way Sony got hold and shared GamePass subscriber numbers. It's all part of the FTC court battle and the involved parties. While you might find it shocking, Sony are very much part of it too.

No one is out to get your beloved Sony 😂.

I think the only way a PS5 Pro could be game changing and still be priced feasibly is if AMD has some unannounced AI upscaling in the pipeline and the PS5 Pro ships with an updated GPU to support that. Unfortunately, it seems like it would be difficult to get something like that launched by late 24 unless they already had access to it. Since there haven't been leaks or rumors to support that it doesn't seem likely.

Alternatively, they could launch a "Pro" model that was more like a refresh at the same price point as the existing PS5. For example, a more modern CPU could make a noticeable difference since we are seeing more single core, CPU bound games due to a lack of optimization from devs.

That being said, I think 4K/60 for most games is probably not going to happen in this generation, even with upgraded hardware. We have been seeing 4K/60 in games early on because they were mostly cross-gen games. As more devs utilize the features of the current-gen hardware, I think we will see more 30fps games unfortunately. Even in those, the 4K will probably be coming from up-scaling.

Mostly I am just curious to see what it ends up being.

@Sol4ris I was just curious how they get hold of information from a rival competitor, same with Sony then how did they get hold of Microsoft gamepass numbers.

@UltimateOtaku91 It only takes one person with the information to share it. Leaks happen. However, it is even more likely to happen between companies in an industry with a relatively small number of people who move around during their careers. You can call an old friend or take them out for some drinks. You can also sometimes get info out of the supply chain.

Even if they don't reveal everything you need you can piece together info from multiple sources.

It happens in all industries.

@UltimateOtaku91

I was just curious how they get hold of information from a rival competitor

I'm not at all sure, perhaps in a similar way the Matt Booty and Jim Rayn emails became (public) as part of the ongoing FTC v Microsoft takeover case. I'm speculating here 😁.

@gollumb82 If your so sure that a PS5 Pro and/or a more powerful version of the Series X wouldn’t be able to do 4K @60fps with ray tracing at under £1000, then what would be the point of either console then? I don’t think either of them are needed right now, the PS5 and Series X are both not being fully utilised yet but I do expect the next generation of consoles to do full 4K @60fps with global illumination ray tracing as standard and also 4K @120fps without ray tracing. Otherwise what else can they offer that the current consoles can’t?

@evan23 @Sol4ris So that's the thing if these two companies can't keep anything secret from each other then Jim's point about not wanting to share future new console specs with Activision because of Microsoft finding out becomes pointless. I'd wager then that both these companies know pretty much what each other are up to and have some pretty detailed insider info. Its probably why every console gen neither console is really that far apart on specs, unless you get a situation like the ps3 by launching it a year later.

@Nightcrawler71 4K/60fps with RTX this gen on console is a pipe dream, pro model or not. I have a PC with an i9 11900KF, 32GB RAM and a RTX 4080; not the absolute bleeding edge of gaming PC's, but it's up there and certainly no slouch. 4K/60fps at max settings on most games is no issue, but add ray-tracing into the mix and the results vary wildly. DLSS 3 eases the load but even then ray-tracing is massively taxing.

A massive tactical error imo. They only recently got their supply issues on track. To add two new SKUs will both piss off people and confuse others.

But they are desperate so I get it too. Every chief at the playstation division should be fired on the spot. I would have done it 6 months ago.

I know people on NL, PX and PS get super duper sad when people 8 get fired but sometimes it is necessary to move on. I love it.

I expect the series s console to constantly be on sale while the PlayStation slim will constantly be full price. As a result there will be more than a $50 difference. People like to think they’re getting a deal when things are on sale.

@MaccaMUFC
It's a good question. We have reached a time when I'd say visual fidelity of games is at its peak and with each new gen the jump in it is smaller and smaller. Honestly, I'd rather consoles tried to aim at 1440p/ultra/60 or 1800p/high/60 with maybe some RTX like shadows and stuff. I mean, consoles are the gaming mainstream. They aren't for the so-called enthusiasts, which PC gamers are (and a minority of them game on cutting edge hardware too). I'm currently playing Shadow of TR on XsX and it looks and plays glorious. I'm actually shocked at how gorgeous this game is and how my XSX is capable of outputting such graphics while also being silent. Personally, I'd much rather have features like Quick Resume, Smart Delivery, auto HDR etc than better graphics, but that is not what hardware makers want us to think. I bet the Xbox Series XL will have: 8K/240 fps on its box, which will be another far-fetched claim, like 4K/120 is this gen.

It’s hard to justify a new console when last gen is still so active. I’ve only just started FFXV, I’m still playing Skyrim and there’s a backlog of classics still to explore.

There's just no way MS would let's a ps5 pro exist unchallenged.
It would mean spending the rest of the entire generation in a PR black hole of every release being compared between the series X and Ps5 pro.

A comparison that's only going to get worse as more and more game either don't have performance modes or performance modes that constantly fail to meet their targets.

We've had more powerful mid gen refreshes for one gen and i still feel like its a bad idea. This gen now more than ever. We still haven't actually gone into it fully yet, none of it actually utilized like it could be. something like the switch OLED is fine.

@abe_hikura it’s slightly trickier for MS tho with having the S which is weaker. Any game then on Xbox would have to run on a pro and XSS.

Whereas PS is all the same power across its digital/disc/slim or whatever they release.

Tho I would suspect MS would release a pro version too. (Personally don’t think they are needed)

@evan23 I think a major problem here is that in this gen, or the next or the next after that, you will always have games on console that tradeoff that frame render time for higher visual fidelity, bigger environment, raytracing, better AI etc. People that hope for a Native 4K or 60FPS or both across all games all the time will be disappointed on consoles, always. Because consoles always aim to be cheap and affordable and "good enough", the aim is never achieving peak performance independent of pricing.

It is only in PC gaming that due the unlimited hardware access you can always build something strong enough and just brute-force your way into whatever framerate or resolution you desire.

@BrilliantBill Yes, that is exactly my point, as more games target current-gen hardware they will use more features and/or increased visuals that will come with lower performance targets. It isn't that games can't run at 60fps, it is that games won't be willing to make the compromises required to make it happen.

I think Jedi Survivor is an example of this. The burden from ray-tracing causes the internal resolution of the game to drop extremely low and as a result the upscaled image looks awful in motion.

@Moonglow To be fair, I think the sales numbers reflect your thinking. The upgraded consoles sold in far fewer numbers last generation. Presumably, it is only the serious enthusiasts or people who don't care about that amount of money who purchase them.

Last generations upgraded consoles seemed a lot more needed than this time around. Especially with the original Xone being so underpowered. Although, the XoneX launched so late that it was too late to make a big impact.

On the other hand, Sony has a lot more market data available than we do so they must have some rationale for making this move at this time.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner a game also needing to run on Xbox Series S shouldn't be a factor when considering the possibility and/or inevitability of a potential Series X "Pro". Developers already factor in wildly different specs on PC, taking into account the most commonly used PC components being far from cutting edge. Series S being less powerful than Series X and "Series X Pro" is nothing compared to the hardware gap catered to in the PC market.

All of the good announcements really are coming from Microsoft lately.
Now they're the ones announcing new PlayStation hardware!

@gollumb82 you are spot on on both points. PC’s don’t hold up to high end settings as long as many users will convince you to believe . Consoles are in some cases even at a worse degrade. That is again why i have been a loud supporter of year 1-2 base console, year 3 slim line, year 4 Pro. I think if Sony stay’s to this schedule i will slowly crawl over there. The slim be it cool and all, is not what i am after outside of looks. That Pro tho i really like. Extra juice in a console cycle is right up my alley. Have to wait and see but yes i agree cloud spec’s and no more worrying about that would be awesome. I already have 1000mbps internet speed in t he house so bring that on if it can work. But i think it’s a way off.

@BrilliantBill for sure and i don’t agree with your points, however when you are being outsold steady for since the beginning of time outside of the 360. You can’t let the rules be set by the leader. You have to find ways to have your doubters look into your ecosystem. If you are constantly following instead of leading that plays a part in purchasers decisions, among games and yes Starfield will be big for Xbox or so it seems. But the S seems cool in some ways and underwhelming in others. As to where the PS5 seems more like an option and not a sacrifice purchase. You lose a lot with the S and for many that isn’t much or anything but again Xbox needs to lead and take charge. Look at the features in controller that ended up being a more follow than lead and some gamers are concerned by that. Xbox is coasting like they are leading and the truth is falling behind like the PS4/Xbox One gen and thats with exclusives. All things matter, even the smallest things. I want 4K 60 and whoever gives me that gets my money. Cause i already have libraries on PS5 and Series X.

Seems pretty pointless to get into pro consoles when most games are still cross-gen and hardly taking advantage of what we already got.

@Markatron84 @gollumb82 Oh well, maybe just 4K/60fps then

So sony release a better product for less.

Meanwhile Xbox releases a product that has the amount storage it should have launched with, but for more. 😂

@themightyant
Yeah, anything even close to 4K/60 and some light RT would be a success on mid--gen (or next gen) consoles.
@HonestHick @BrilliantBill
I get the desire to have to best possible hardware to game on, but take my word for it: PC gaming is not all it's cracked up to be. Sure, you can upgrade, but you have to invest a lot of money and need to have at least a basic knowledge of putting together a PC. Then there's the Windows resource hog, drivers issues etc. Consoles are still the best option for budget-conscious people and I have just come back to them from the PC so-called promised land and I won't be going the PC route again. I'd rather buy all 3 consoles and still be left with some spare cash, while just gaming without the hassle mentioned above. To each their own, of course.

@Wheatly
Just like they did with their elite controller, instead of releasing a pro to the large customer base, they release an overpriced controller to a dedicated few. Is it really good business to sell few expensive than many cheaper?

@UltimateOtaku91 My thoughts exactly.

@Joabra01Swe all depends on the profit margin per item. For example elite controllers make £25 profit per sale but standard £1. You would have to sell 25:1 for same profit.

Literally any new PS5 will be buried in hype over Nintendo’s next console, which most expect to be launched next year. And whether Sony likes it or not, Nintendo IS a direct competitor to them.

@UltimateOtaku91 To be fair, if there's a pro, they probably have devkits for their many games on it (unless Jim's doing the "we won't share specs" thing so that a dozen plus games suddenly don't play nice with it.) Slim....who among us didn't have that information?

I'm still surprised though that if MS knows about a Pro, Phil's already doubled down on not doing one assuming this is something they know and aren't just making up, considering it talks about the handheld PS5 (yes, please!)

@InterceptorAlpha Unless Sony's upping the storage, PS5 has less storage than the new S though.... but I agree $350 vs 400 for the S vs the PS5 is....not a great look..... I'm hoping/assuming MS keeps selling the $300 S because that pricing really puts it in "why buy it" territory if you're not really comparing the storage needs, and then MS is left with a much more expensive core X than core PS5 (disc drive aside, but most XB players don't even care.) If Sony ends up winning this gen on price, I don't even have words.

@Wheatly Works reverse, too, the more "lifestyle" something is, the less I want anything to do with it. Usually it just means overpaying for worse products for status. I think a lot of gamers fall far outside the lifestyle market. Heck, going all in on "lifestyle" is what made such a disaster of PS3. Go figure, gamers and high-end home theater aren't the same market... I for one thought the people that pay people $200 to program their remote control on-site were definitely the people that run Skyrim mods.

@NEStalgia Microsoft did limit Series X stock to prioritize cloud gaming. It wouldn't be surprising if the strategy is they upgrade their xCloud servers to be the equivalent of a more powerful Series X even though there's no physical release of a more powerful Series X.

@gollumb82 i agree 100%, i have zero desire to game on PC. To much hassle and i don’t even use PC for anything else. I have Mac’s and iPad’s all over the house. So a gaming PC would be a waste of money for me. But i would drop money on a PS5 Pro or Series Pro from Xbox. I would pre order it and be happy to have whatever spec bumps and performance I would have gained 😊

@Grumblevolcano I know they were prioritizing delivering hardware for cloud over delivering retail units, but I'm not sure they were artificially limiting stock specifically to push cloud, there was only so much to go around and cloud got first priority on deliveries. I think Hood did say they were limiting production on hardware to maintain profitability though which, IMO is idiotic, but it's what they did...) Not so much for pushing cloud as much as just not spending money making inventory. (because who needs an install base anyway?)

Besides every xbox exec just told us nobody uses cloud, it's just something people use while installing games to their console.

Seriously, though, I don't think they could go with that strategy until they have purchased games available on cloud. GP is great and all but it's still an extremely narrow slice of their actual library and misses out on a lot of the big games when they drop. Which they said will happen but we haven't heard anything about it in ages so it doesn't sound like it's close to happening, and the shape of that might even be changing since they've been getting so close with nVidia (Xbox Two uses nVidia confirmed?). Considering how little cloud capacity they actually have in places like UK, apparently, it would be a challenging approach, too. I'm not convinced they have enough capacity in the US either, as I frequently see the "lots of people are playing now, so it make take a little longer" message when connecting. I never have problems getting in but it's clear capacity is kind of at limits even with low usage for now.

Your idea DOES have some merit, it would be interesting to see if "Pro" quality means streamed for them, but honestly, I don't think they actually have the ability to do that probably for a number of years still. Their capacity and beta tech just isn't quite to that point. Plus replacing all those still-new XSX racks would cost fortunes, and they still seem to be kind of just handing off a lot of "cloud" to nVidia at this point. I think they probably spent waaay more on their cloud racks than is profitable right now. That'd be interesting though. Better experience on cloud than local console. I'd switch, for sure.

@gollumb82 @HonestHick PC can be quite nice at the high end, but I still find myself puzzled by the amount of people that rave about how much better it is than the old days. Yeah, my last gaming PC was when Win7 was new, so it's been a while, but nothing I see looks like it's dramatically better than it was back then, but people around here will tell you it is. Driver issues are still a thing, troubleshooting games not running right because of all kinds of reasons is still a thing, unoptimized games is still a thing, hardware constantly changing versions is still a thing which makes "upgrading" a lot shorter lived than people claim when the bus still keeps changing meaning upgrading one part still means upgrading all parts every few years. Building super rigs only for it to crumble and then be obsolete over and over eventually was too much.

Still, if consoles going to go the constant upgrade route like PC, it really loses one big advantage it had over PC.

@NEStalgia
All great points that I agree with 100%. I would still argue that a console mid-gen refresh is a lot cheaper and a lot less bothersome than upgrading a gpu or cpu in a PC. I will wait and see what these pro consoles are capable of and decide if it's worth the money and trouble. I don't have fond memories of PS4 PRO as it was a poorly designed machine with regard to how it handled intense games in the heat/noise department.

@gollumb82 Yeah, but it gets into diminishing returns. If buying one PC for $1500-2000 at the start of the gen, which will be more powerful than a console at the start, basically covers the role of 2 base and 2 pro consoles for the same or less money (now that MS and Sony are both into PC), it may actually end up cheaper in the end buying one or even 1.5 super-rigs instead of 4 consoles.

Hassle is another question though. I'm really leaning more and more into looking at GF Now. Basically a 4080 super rig for like $200 a year and all the hassle is their problem. Right now the content supported is limited but if MS goes through with all XGS games on it, a 7 year gen is $1400 vs probably $1200 on console + mid-gen. And the hassle and failures are all on them.

Sure it's a PC rental, but with costs and time involved, that's a cheeeeep rental.

@NEStalgia
Oh, I'm with you here. I'm looking at GF Now as well as a potential option for the future. The only thing stopping me is the poor games library. If and when they improve it, I will be there, if only to keep it an as option.

@gollumb82 @NEStalgia I’m going to go into my Apple bag here a minute friends, stay with me tho. I look at PC gaming like android phones. There is so many configurations and specs to make a app (game) for on android that there is no way it’s going to run as well as say iPhone with 2 phone configurations using mainly the same parts minus some quality of life features. So android is like PC and Apple is the console. I see people compare iPhone specs to the galaxy all the time, only for the iPhone to run 2.5X longer and with better battery life. Code comes down to 2 things in my opinion, stability and optimization. It’s simply too hard for PC to ever be plug and play. So i agree with NES that i highly doubt it’s much better today like others say. Take the Last of Us PC port for an example. The PS5 version is one of my favorite PS games ever. If i paid $3K on my PC rig to be high end which is what i would do if i gamed there, i would be awful upset on my return to investment for a game that run’s nearly perfect on a $400 console. I don’t think console needs to go the upgrade route of a PC. But i don’t see the harm in a pro model half way through the Generation. To me it gives dev’s some extra juice, for the consumer that Pro model might carry them from year 4 of the PS5 into the last 3-4 years of PS5 and year or two of PS6 while they are hard to find or no games of interest for them. So in that case that pro model was a 5-6 year investment. To me that seems like a win win for consumers and developers. I think the writing is on the wall we are going to get a lot of 4K 30 on base consoles. It’s not trending on looking like 4K 60 for most newer titles. So if this PS5 Pro dual GPU can provide that, i am for sure a buyer. However PC just don’t interest me much in the slightest. Do i believe when PC is running right it’s the best experience? Yes, probably so. But when it’s not or you have busted ports like TLOU and many others then it’s simply not worth all the headache and price for the few times it get’s it right.

@slatyatpion yes the black plates make the PS5 look a lot better. It is still not a favorite design choice of mine. I hope the PS5 slim or Pro look better and not need a stand to lay flat. But for what we have to work with. I think the black plates are the best i can do with the PS5. Series X looks great in my setup. However i would love the series X power in a slightly bigger series X form factor. That would be amazing. 😊

@HonestHick To counter that slightly, there's one key difference as it applies to battery use beyond the admittedly good efficiency on Apple between Android and iOS and that is multitasking. iOS still doesn't support true parallel tasking, it, by design, uses a Windows 3.1 style switch from app to app, putting background tasks into a suspend mode, thus only the active app plus any specifically background tasks that are switched to are ever active. This conserves a great amount of battery, while Androids is more like Windows, it's a true windowed environment where numerous applications are running simultaneously. For the "average" user it probably doesn't matter, so the "average" user loves their iPhone. For the power user, Android is using more battery because Android is genuinely doing considerably more at once.

FWIW, that's actually optional in Android, for example, the Logitech G-Cloud uses a loader that actually does only run one application at once, and kills background apps, so it milks a ton more battery out of the interface, but of course, you buy a Galaxy because of it's multitasking ability vs the one-at-a-time iOS.

.........I just wish Samsung would stop being like Sony and under-specing their batteries all the time. They used to do so much better with that!!

As for pro consoles, it depends on what they're charging, too. I don't see a pro console with significantly better hardware running under $750, maybe $700. It's going to be a small market it reaches (it was last time) and they need to make considerable margin on it to be worth all the extra development and support overhead it generates for them as well. Realistically the two consoles added bring you well into PC territory. That's where it starts getting really iffy as to how useful it is, when you could have just spent that on a PC in 2020 and already been ahead.

But, yeah, the headaches....are real. I'm rooting for GF Now

@NEStalgia i would love to see GeForce Now become more and more a real thing. It has a chance. As for the Pro consoles and pricing and return to investment, i do agree that the Pro model will be smaller numbers wise as it should be. The average FIFA player don’t need and won’t buy the Pro. But for the hardcore gamer many will the question is is that enough for Sony or MS to deem worth the time? I don’t know honestly so i can’t comment. One thing is for sure, Sony isn’t afraid to price their products high and luxury. They have the name brand and people willing to do anything to get their hardware. MS can’t price a Pro to high as they just aren’t that in demand of a brand at the moment, sadly. Android phones also have loads of Malware and optimization issues that runs battery harder and they use processor that aren’t as refined as the M series Chips in apple. Apples M series chip can outperform intel using 1/3rd the power draw. That is impressive tech. But yes android does have more flexibility in it’s window management as apple is always telling us what is best for us vs giving us options. 😀

@slatyatpion haha, yeah i used to always lay my consoles flat. But i do have my Series X standing tall and PS5 flat. I am just happy both consoles are silent in running. Seem to vent heat good and haven’t had much to any problems with either. But i sure hope the slim and Pro look better and lay flat. Knowing Sony they will try to make it look even more bold. 😀

@HonestHick The real bottom line with pro consoles given the sales trends last time is that they simply don't sell very well. They reach a very niche market of console players that either want more power but are not willing to go PC, or those that are easily enticed by FOMO to simply not have the latest thing whatever that thing may be. As such, the real performance seekers already are on PC, and the majority of console consumers simply don't care. Consoles are generally sold at razor thin margins and the difference is made up on software, but for that tiny niche to be meaningful for a pro console the markup really needs to be significantly higher. Last time hardware had dramatically dropped in price so the margins were made up with very little price increase. This time hardware cost has not dropped. The markup, to make it viable, would have to look like the $200 Edge controller. Honestly saying $700 might be low-balling it in the current climate. Problem is then it's getting into mid-tier to upper tier GPU pricing.

From a business perspective I just see very little business imperative to release such a product. Not saying Sony won't do it, MS basically said they won't do it, and we know Nintendo didn't do it. But business-wise it's basically a loss just to have a halo product for the sake of having it. It doesn't reach a meaningful market at any really meaningful profit as a line of business. It exisits only to enhance the brand image, really, because the target market barely exists. Will they do it? Maybe. But it doesn't really make much business sense as an actual line of business beyond bolstering the total brand image. It's more of a marketing expense than an actual product.

Interestingly, I was reading a article earlier that contradicted other articles. I've seen so many retailers citing dropped discretionary spending, so many retailers closing. Then I was reading about "revenge spending" and how people are still spending through the stimulus savings but it's almost expired and that's when things really drop. Right now it seems like people stopped buying consumer products, but started spending like crazy on entertainment and travel, but they're debt spending now. With what's coming? I don't see a $700 or even $500 console doing all that well in the next 3 years. If these companies are trying to move up-market, they picked a really bad time to try it, probably based on artificial highs of the past few years.

We don't know how X1X performed because MS was in a weird position at the time, it was kind of a brand reboot, and they don't report hardware numbers. We know PS4 Pro really didn't do so hot. It was hotter than they expected in the first 6 months and they were excited, but once the early adopters had theirs it all went downhill. And that was the bull market years. The bear's going to be slumbering for a generation I think.

@HonestHick Also, with Sony, yeah, the high price luxury thing is such a turn-off to me. I just won't pay for luxury. It's great if you're trying to impress people. I'm not trying to impress people. I don't even like people. But the thing with PS is they built their brand on being the value brand, not on being luxury, and the attempt to go luxury with PS3 backfired, really really badly. It's sorta kinda working for them right now? But I also think they have limits on that in the gaming world they don't have in the TV and camera world. They've always tried to be what Apple became, but it's never really happened. Apple products are decent for what they do but realistically Apple mostly was built on a cult of personality of the leader, and then carried over feeding its own monster afterward because then the status symbol was already a status symbol and that was that.

Apple's CPUs...well, they're well designed, but....they're going forward by going backward because backward was always forward. By that I mean Apple's strength back in the day was always their RISC architecture. At the core it was always more efficient than x86 because x86 always was inefficient. Then Apple changed to x86 selling overpriced hardware and the hype train carried them. Going to the ARM setup of M1 just means going back to mini-RISC basically which works because mobile is all ARM based now, so there's a lot of cross compatibility. It's not that that's a bad thing, they're returning to an old advantage because that advantage became common place again with mobile, but it's also a little misleading and "marketing enhanced" to keep boasting about Apple's magic technology when it's nothing of the sort, they're just building laptops on a mobile based architecture, which is naturally far more efficient, which is a return to what their OLD PCs used to be more or less back in the day before they did a 180.

Don't get me wrong, it was always stupid for them to go x86 when their whole advantage was that they were not x86 before, so this is a logical move, if belated. But the marketing angle is a whole other level of fooling the sheep...which is easy because Apple sheep are easily distracted by shiny things. Still, on mobile it's ARM v ARM and that distinction doesn't apply. It's just the mix of more efficient OS power management mixed with the fact it's not actually truly multitasking while Android devices are. Whether most users benefit from that is another question. I quite like it. But....I'm not an average user....I often have well over 100 browser tabs open on a phone....

Have not read the entire comment section, but did read enough to see a lot of over-reaching. Microsoft expecting new PS5 models is just that, an expectation. Microsoft does not know there will be two models, but we all have heard enough rumors and MS hears the same.

At the same time, I see some that still believe the last statements from Phil mean there wont be a mid gen "pro" xbox model, and that also is running with an assumption based on a very narrow statement. Phil specifically said they didnt feel consumers or developers needed a Pro xbox, but he never said its not happening. He was very careful at navigating that question, leaving room for it to exist without it turning out to be a lie.

If I was a gambling person, I would put money that there is internal research being done on a mid-gen Xbox pro refresh. Even if they don't decide to launch it, that thing is very likely under development and ready to be revealed as counter to any PS5 Pro reveal, but not earlier.

@Tharsman I agree with your last statement. I, too, think both sides are R&D'ing it and that's where the rumors come from but it doesn't mean they'll launch it, it's just mutual deterrents.

The first...it's possible MS does know, after all, they're a PS developer, if there's reality to dev kits they may well already be onto that information or even in possession of them. Jim was threatening to withhold such things post abk but they probably aren't withholding it yet. And even if they aren't privvy, abk may be and could have informed them. Not saying it's definite, again their "handheld PS5" comment sounds more like lawyers using talking points than real statements, but it's easily possible they would know while most others have rumors.

As for Phil, I think that statement couples, though, to a statement he said pre-launch about not wanting to be in a position of needing to launch a mid-gen again this time. Between the two statements, yes, he left the door open in case it needs to happen, but I think he's also made it clear they really don't want to actually have to. It's sticky for them because even if they do, they make their cloud product look worse, which is bad for them all the way around.

@NEStalgia i was beyond upset when Apple went with Intel processor and x86. At that point i felt like i had a PC with a different operating system. What else was i getting outside of the apple experience. Returning to their own in house products is what made apple important to me 20 plus years ago when i was coming out of high school. It’s not that apple always get’s it right or does better, but it’s the unique experience they create that kept me hooked for so long. Apple products aren’t even suppose to be mainstream, they were nerd and graphic designers. As much as i love Apple and have every product and all my life is interwoven in their ecosystem. I am never one to brag much about them being the richest in the world or taken over the industry, cause it’s not always what’s best for apple. I like them small and hungry and worrying about the true user’s that love them for a certain reason. The one area i will say about apple is they know how to create and so does Sony to a degree, this is what got the Xbox brand in trouble. Microsoft isn’t much of a creditor, apple made fan of them back in the Steve Jobs years about that. To not know or care to build better games against Sony was just driving your console business off a cliff. It was Easy victories for Sony really. Now MS wants to buy a good size of the market to ensure content availability and many gamers question that. Myself included and i’ve been a huge Xbox fan since the OG. Pro consoles in my opinion come down to can you make people care about the extra power and in the mainstream player base the answer is No. so is it worth it to sell 15-20 million of them? I am not sure. But i will buy one. As long as it gives me 4K 60 and the best quality i can get. Cause again i ain’t buying or building a PC.

@HonestHick Apple was for the artsy fartsy types. Nerds were Windows and *nix.

Now Apple is for vain posers and tech illiterates. And you.

I never liked Apple stuff, but at least thought the RISC setup was cool. Even I thought it was crazy when then went x86 even as an anti-fan. It just made no sense to me at all, that was the whole point.

Xbox, though, I suppose it's just old news now. The Balmer/Matrick duo really didn't get consoles, and the destruction to the brand made that obvious. They really thought they were selling the machine itself, not the content. Though I still see Jim as a good fit for those two. He has the same mindset to the core. What's working for them works in spite of him.

Pro consoles....if that dual GPU thing on a PS5 pro turns out to be true I'm guessing you could pay for an entire generational subscription to GFN and still have some change to hit up the steam sale on it. And you'd still get better performance! The only thing that would tempt me is the VR possibilities.

@NEStalgia Yeah, if anything, I'd say PC gaming peaked during the past generation (2013-2020). Driver and compatibility issues were at a minimum (only case I personally encountered was Deadly Premonition), and even the lower-end cards were well above what the consoles were offering.

Now, between ridiculously high GPU prices, all-around terrible optimization, and consoles being good again, PC isn't quite as attractive as before.

That said, the whole thing about PCs not lasting as long as consoles is a misconception: Yes, if you NEED to be on the cutting edge, then you have to upgrade constantly, and also replace your whole rig every few years. But if you just want a decent gaming experience- which must be the case, if you'd consider a console- then you can easily get 5-10 years without upgrading.

I'm still rocking a GTX 960, a lower mid-range card that I got 8 years ago. Is it too old to run the latest games at 60fps? Yes, but it still fares better than its rival consoles (base Xbone and PS4), and isn't too far behind today's lower-end Xboxes and PCs. Had I splurged on a 980 (or waited another year for the 10 series), I'd be golden.

@NEStalgia they withed PS5 kits pre-anouncement from Mojang, so I would not be shocked if they withed pros from them too.

I also think Sony was paranoid, its not uncommon in the industry to make contracts that forbid the sharing of information on stuff like this. I mentioned it before but Samsung and Apple had a similar relationship for many many years. These days Apple uses TSMC, though.

Also, Sony (in court) claimed their biggest concern was not the specs, but "innovations" like all the new Dual Sense (battery munching) features.

Edit: on the cloud front, i dont think it maters much. As it stands, I think those racks only render 1080p, or at least that's what they will stream out. They are not as high fidelity as playing on an actual Xbox, regardless how good your internet is.

@NEStalgia VR on that could be a huge gain and i am sure thats some of the plan with it. Yeah MS duo was a mess at marketing and selling Xbox one, no need to beat that dead horse. But wow Jim Ryan i mean talk about a guy riding the waves. He could come out and say he hates the PS fan’s and they would go out and buy PS5’s in huge numbers. They almost can’t fail. Not even sure a PS3 level mess up would sink them at this point. Apple and me are together for better or worse. X86 is junk to me. Windows while i think it looks cool sometimes and i like certain aspects of it. It just runs so inconsistent and buggy. Nothing about it ever feels polished to me. My MacBook Pro from 3-4 years ago keeps up or passes current windows machines. Plus still has a better screen and speakers. So while Apple isn’t perfect to me and i don’t love the direction they have taken all the time. They are still my exclusive computing platform. Google just sells peoples info makes a ton of money on it and closes their services and app’s all the time when they reach a level of concern for them. Apple Maps launched in a dreadful state. I mean it could tell you how to get to your local post office correctly at times and yet apple continued to hire for it and made it into a great map now. Even leading google in some ways and behind still in others. But Google would have killed that app in 2 seconds. So i give them next to zero of my time and money. Windows would be my second choice, i could use a Surface Pro laptop and be fine. But it wouldn’t tie all my apple products in to make it a family of info, so i won’t.

The PS4 Pro was meh - mid last gen. Doubt I will consider a mid gen refresh, but, maybe Microsoft will surprise me with something worth considering.