Yesterday brought us the news that Microsoft was laying off 10,000 people across its workforce, and early reports suggested that Halo developer 343 Industries had been hit quite badly as a result of the layoffs.
Since then, we've seen numerous Xbox and Bethesda employees take to social media to confirm their jobs have been affected, although one set of comments in particular have been getting a lot more attention than the rest.
Patrick Wren, who worked for 343 Industries for over eight years and was a Senior Multiplayer Designer on Halo Infinite, didn't hold back with his thoughts, blaming "incompetent leadership" for the layoffs and the state of the game.
"The layoffs at 343 shouldn't have happened and Halo Infinite should be in a better state. The reason for both of those things is incompetent leadership up top during Halo Infinite development causing massive stress on those working hard to make Halo the best it can be."
"The people I worked every day with were passionate about Halo and wanted to make something great for the fans. They helped push for a better Halo and got laid off for it. Devs still there are working hard on that dream. Look at Forge. Be kind to them during this awful time."
Wren ended up leaving 343 Industries in late 2021 and joining Respawn Entertainment, for which he's now working as a Senior Encounter Designer on the upcoming Star Wars Jedi: Survivor.
It's worth keeping in mind that these comments are based on the leadership structure that was in place during Wren's time at 343 Industries, and various changes have been made since then, most notably in September of last year.
What are your thoughts on this? Let us know down in the comments section below.
[source twitter.com]
Comments 35
This isn't a surprise at all. Bad leadership can ruin everything.
All you have to do is look at Halo Infinite to know he’s correct.
I like Halo Infinite MP well enough, but it's fair to say the game could have had a smoother launch. Hell, post launch hasn't been great for a lot of people.
@FatalBubbles That's sad, but true unfortunately....
@BrilliantBill The thing you should remember is that this problem isn’t just unique to 343…it’s every MS first party studio. They’re all in a state…either fallen apart, like the initiative. Had games delayed, cancelled, or completely started from scratch since first shown…like pretty much every studio under them, most recently Rare.
Xbox has had a huge problem for generations now…that they keep throwing money at hoping that that will fix. Meanwhile studios continue to mainly exist without structure and focus…leading to games rarely being released and ultimately what we’re now seeing…layoffs.
Meanwhile Phil Spencer continues to win awards.
Luckily the problem can only get better with them taking on aload more studios and staff…
343's days are numbered. Bonnie Ross was well respected at Microsoft so she was able to shield them through all the crap. But with her gone it's open season.
With Microsoft owning multiple legendary FPS franchises (Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein) and Call of Duty on the way i can't see them caring much about Halo anymore.
Personally I quite liked Halo 5 and Halo Infinite. I don't really understand the bashing, I guess there should be more multiplayer content but otherwise it's pretty good.
@Kaloudz employees do what the management decide. so primarily it is a management issue. could the employees do a better job? perhaps, but its harder to do that with bad management. something that gets mentioned about xbox studios regularly.
points to something higher up being wrong.
Obviously 343 as the developer f***** up massively but as the head of Xbox game studios Phil Spencer should share alot of the blame god knows he gets credited enough anytime there's good news for Xbox
Man, Xbox really needs to deliver on this Developer Direct or they’ll be cannibalized by the gaming community at the end of the month almost assuredly. It’s about time people sniffed the BS though. Clearly there’s been a management problem and it’s been apparent for most of the Phil Spencer era. Meanwhile he and the rest of top management keep getting awards for being positive personalities and pretending to be the good guy. I’m glad the more dedicated fans are finally starting to question what is going on and why now that there are actually consequences in motion for the poor management.
@somnambulance totally agree especially about untouchable phil.
that aside i think gamers are getting fed up in general, be it live service, mtx, delays, products releasing unfinished/poor state. alot of good will is going to be lost, MS need to nail their big 3. Hopefully the bethesda ones arent their usual bugfest
@stvevan This generation so far has ultimately made me a bigger fan of Nintendo overall, simply because they tell you a game is releasing, it does, and if there are any internal issues, they seem to be addressed because the rumors don’t stick around for long. It sure seems simple and they’re providing quality games on top of that.
With regards to Phil, he’s been portraying Sony as a bad guy all generation, saying how Xbox does better, only to follow suit. I mean, think about how harshly he talked about Sony with the $70 price point on games and then Xbox goes and does the same thing. I am tired of the “We care more about you, the gamers,” schtick Phil plays up on. I am tired of Xbox saying something and then doing something else. There’s so little consistency. I’ll give Phil credit for the idea of Gamepass, but even there, I question the true motives for that service as well. I suspect many of the things I’ve noticed will be things others finally realize in the coming weeks. Xbox fans have long been the independent thinkers and I’m glad to see that spirit returning to the community.
@BrilliantBill maybe…I mean that’s the real reason they’re buying publishing houses rather than just developers isn’t it?…to help ensure games actually come out. The problem is the difference between working effectively for yourself and working for somebody else - you generally try harder when working for yourself. So these publishers have been getting games out consistently before MS now suddenly have a big bag of money to rely on regardless of hitting release dates…this will naturally lead to games getting more delays. I mean last year we already saw this with Bethesda…how often did they miss their release dates by a year before being acquired by MS.
Usually delays are good for the gamer at the end of the day…which any other publisher this is true. MS however it’s not…nearly every game they’ve announced since Phil Spencer has seen long delays and ultimately still been released half baked. It’s easy enough to track as there’s been so few games…but the big ones have been crackdown 3 and recently halo.
Of course there’s some out liars under MS …playground games have appeared to be competent in getting games out regardless of MS management. And the coalition was pretty productive last gen. But you do get a sense that there’s been a realisation amongst ms game studios that with ms’s hands off approach they can simply get paid for doing very little… helped all the more by the backlash towards ‘crunch culture’ in recent years. When 500+ people can’t steadily regularly release content you know somebody is taking the piss.
And now of course they’ll complain about lack of management when they’re no longer reaping the rewards of that lack of management.
@robe I liked halo infinite too actually. But when you consider the money invested in it. The extra year delay and it still being released missing main features. And general lack of content and variety…something clearly went wrong.
And then when they’re pushing a live service version of it with the mp but failing to regularly support it…then it you start to get the backlash.
And now that they’re going to be charging £70 for these games then expectations in them should grow with the price. Of course ms have the shield of gamepass to rely on…but that will get a price rise too soon enough.
@somnambulance Man, you've said it all! I've never been into the backstage of the industry, I was just an average guy who was into gaming. And while I've been quite satisfied with Gamepass, I always felt something was a bit "off" with Microsoft, since the end of the Xbox One era (I got one late, by 2019, I guess).
Now, in 2023, after owning a Series S for a yearvand a half and after been around this website for some time, I realize how unacceptable the situation is: MS's gaming division is a multi-billion operation, and still, they can't show consistent, original, quality content?
I wonder what they're lacking...talent, motivation, leadership, or a sum of all those?
Or perhaps they're satisfied with the 3rd place and that's it?
Regardless, I'll still support MS for a bit more, but honestly, if the PS5 wasn't so damn expensive here in Brazil, I guess I would've already pulled the trigger.
Well, 2023 is supposed to be THE year for Xbox, right?
Confirming what many of us here have speculated over the past couple of years.
@Kaloudz
I think when they say upper management, they mean upper management within 343, not within XBox or Microsoft.
This goes hand in hand with developers never being actually in change of anything, it is management that is in charge of deciding directions. When players say "developers that are not in touch with the community" it's actually a manager that made calls that go counter to the community despite what the community (and often even the dev team) thinks.
A very good example of this is WoW. Various leads for years ignored the player base and forced their ways on the game, even their teams were against it but you cant go against leadership. Eventually the problematic leaders in question were kicked out the door, and under new leadership, now WoW has one of its most successful expansions ever, and people love it.
So, yes, the problem is always leadership. Hell, if a dev is dragging its heels and does not get fired, that is also a leadership issue.
@somnambulance
Metroid Prime 4 (announced 2017)
Bayonetta 3 (announced 2017)
Breath of the Wild 2 (announced 2019)
Advance Wars 1+2: Re-Boot Camp (permanently in limbo)
Do you have a quote or link to XBox actually talking harshly about this? Because all I recall xbox reps (including Phil) say at the time was simply along the lines of "we have nothing to announce at this time" or the such. I have always assumed the reason they didnt do a price increase the same way Sony did was because it messing with the whole Smart Delivery strategy and promise, where Sony taxed its players for a white PS5 label in the box, and forbid them from ever playing their multi-plat games on a PS4 if they paid more.
The only thing Phil Spencer gave lip service to was the increase in price to the hardware.
We know. We've been saying that for years now. We're just impressed it has taken so long.
343 was never meant to make games. They were there to run and maintain Waypoint.
Now we're a decade in and they've given us 3 bad games and a garbage television show.
@OldgamerDave As someone that’s been with Xbox since practically the beginning, there’s just been so many failed promises the last five or so years. I remember the E3 where we were promised “over 100 games are coming to Xbox.” It was of course all hubris, however. So many games have gotten cancelled or vanished into nothingness or were merely timed exclusives or old titles that were already on other platforms. Xbox is still celebrating the release of old games on the Xbox platform as if they’re brand new too. Watching how they discuss their brand through the legal documents of this Activision acquisition too, I just continue feeling distant from what Xbox has become and where they want to be. Reading things from Moon Studios and Bungie (who were willing to sign up with Sony behind MS’s back) don’t help to paint Xbox in a better light. It’s all so two-faced. That said, I’m still holding out to see how Bethesda and Obsidian look in the near future under the Xbox umbrella. I haven’t lost all my faith yet, but I’m getting close.
But I do think problems go above Spencer as well. The “purchase and monopolize under the guise of philanthropy while pretending to be an underdog” philosophy is an inherent part of MS and has been for ages.
@OldgamerDave
Xbox started seriously acquiring studios in 2018 with Ninja Theory, Undead Labs, Compulsion, Playground, Inexile and Obsidian. Added Double fine in 2019 and ZeniMax in 2020.
It usually takes a Triple-A game about 6-10 years to be made from scratch, sequels can potentially take less time since they are building on top of an existing foundation. Arround 3-4 years for Triple-A sequels.
The truth is the acquired studios simply have not had enough time under ownership to deliver exclusive games. Most these studios were tied up in pre-existing arrangements for either multi-platform games or, in cases like Deathloop, PlayStaton timed exclusives.
2023 marks the 5 year since this acquisition spree started. It's a miracle of timing that Xbox will get a big exclusive out of the ZeniMax deal "just" 3 years after acquisition simply because Starfield had been under development for so long and Sony never managed to lock an exclusivity deal for the game (we know they were trying.)
@somnambulance
There were a lot of rumors going around for a while about Bungie going around trying to find a buyer. They denied it, over and over, but obviously it was true since they ended up selling to Sony. Among those rumors, it was said that they talked to Phil about it but it was a hard pass for XBox.
This deal didn't happen "behind MS's back", Sony was Bungie's rebound pick after being rejected by Xbox.
@Kaloudz I'm old and as a dev I have worked for small and large companies, goverments from local to state to fed levels. For the most part, whenever "higher ups" get involved (as in a whole new layer from the studio/component/division/etc) the options tend to be:
A) do you need more resources to finish X?
B) Should we axe X?
C) You are fired, we getting someone else in charge.
I think we can make a case that Bonnie Ross should had been fired way earlier (lets face it, there is no way she just left due to personal reasons, I wont ever stop believing she was asked to turn in her resignation.) MS still seemed to had decided to do something about things when they had to delay Halo Infinite for a year, when they basically sent Joe Staten to oversee that extended period.
I can see, in part, how Ross got away with it for so long because I have seen similar. It might sound counterintuitive, but when you are in charge of one of the tentpoles of the company, there can be a lot more resistance to just kick them out and put someone new in charge. Devil you know kind of thing.
Maybe had XBox have had more tentpoles besides Halo/Gears/Forza, they would had felt more empowered to do drastic changes to 343.
When you have employees like snickerdoodle, what do you expect?
Hope she is one shown the door with those layoffs. Horrible person.
@Tharsman Thanks for the fresh perspective, friend. I know you can't "rush art", still... half a decade seems a lot for fans to wait.
But then again, MS has virtually unlimited funds. So, maybe they could expand their teams, promote a higher level of integration and optimization of tasks, without necessarily crunch... THAT is the challenge of MS leadership!
@somnambulance I'm on the same boat: I've been on Xbox since the 360 days, and I still trust them, but the clock's ticking and many veterans may be very close to the edge, depending on how 2023 turns out to be. But again: I really hope this will FINALLY be Xbox's moment to shine!
@OldgamerDave see Brook's Law:
More manpower might help a project early on, but not necessary too late in.
A funny counterintuitive thing that some might consider proves mismanagement from XBox management, is Starfield's delay. I honestly think Starfield would had launched on its scheduled date had ZeniMax still be an independent publisher, not because the game would had been ready by then, but because they would have not had the money to continue development without shipping. It could had been a Cyberpunk scenario.
@Tharsman Another deep insight, friend! I saw in one of your comments you saying that you're a developer - and that changes things in my book. I'll follow your comments closer and hopefully learn more about this field. Cheers!
The entire 343 studio should be shut down.
They're awful and have failed with every single product they have ever made.
@OldgamerDave for clarity, I'm not an XBox game dev, I am mostly an old fashioned boring software dev that has worked in a few game projects for PC and mobile, never for console.
On the topic of 343, from what I hear there is a policy issue with contractor term limits. I have been trying to google up the source of this but cant find anything official, but the claims are that due to some labor laws, contractors have an 18 month term limit. I am not sure if this is exclusive to 343 or a Microsoft wide thing.
Among all the management choices that impacted Halo Infinite development, losing contract developers after this 18 month mark is often highlighted. Thats a huge loss on experience and knowledge that can set back any project back.
I have not heard of any other of their studios having issues due to this. For what its worth, the Coalition is in Vancouver, Canada, and Playground Games is in the UK, but Turn 10 Studios is also in Redmond, Washington. Would be interesting to know why we don't hear about them having similar issues. Maybe they have a smaller ratio of contractors? 🤷
@Tharsman Still, the fact that you work as a dev brings a higher level of understanding on the topic, that I won't pretend to possess. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts: it helps me to have a more informed opinion on the "xbox has no games" issue.
@Tharsman From my understanding with the Bungie deal, Microsoft were also attempting to purchase and were blindsided to them having signed the deal with Sony. I could have sworn I read something where Phil said they were in talks about acquiring Bungie and were about to put out an offer when Sony rushed something in to undercut Phil’s efforts.
I also recall something to the effect where Phil had outrightly said that they did not have any plans to increase pricing on software or hardware right around the time Sony increased their hardware price and then backtracked four months or so later when software prices increased. I don’t think the price increase is wrong, by the way. I’m surprised they didn’t match Sony in the first place. I unfortunately don’t have a specific citation.
And, ah, yes, a few examples of protracted Nintendo releases. Advance Wars, however, is completed and some actually got a surprise chance to play it for a bit before Nintendo realized that a few preorders opened. Bayo 3 finally released and Botw2 is coming soon enough. Most of the time they get release dates in pretty well though. And if not they are transparent about delays. Metroid Prime 4 is the only title the Switch generation that has been a total no show.
@somnambulance what I heard, months (hell think up to a year) before Sony acquisition was that they had talks, and MS simply determined they wanted too much money for what they brought to the table, and too much independence. It does seem Sony was happy to give them both.
Honestly, for Sony the deal might be seen a lot more sensible since it brought with it the Destiny IP for movies and animation purposes, an angle that meant nothing for XBox since they don’t own movie or animation studios and would rely on third parties (like Paramaunt for Halo.)
I have heard this spiel countless times, yes leadership can ruin things but the ppl at the ground can also.
These past Halo games have been a mess and broken too. Their inability to communicate with the fans and broken promises.
End of the day, it does suck when people lose their job(s). Criticizing a studio is fair, but to a point they lose their jobs is terrible.
Half right. The franchise should have been taken off the studio years ago. Well before they even started Infinite. That's pretty bad management.
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