We're hardly 18 months into this console generation and talk of mid-gen upgrades is already upon us. Last week, TV and electronics company TCL suggested that console upgrades could come as early as next year, via a company presentation. However, the folks at Digital Foundry have now sat down to discuss the topic on a recent podcast, and they've questioned the need for mid-gen upgrades within the next few years.
DF's Alex Battaglia had this to say on the topic:
I don't think we need them [new consoles] because there still is not a large enough install base for the currently released PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S. Supply constraints throughout the pandemic threw off the dissemination of these consoles so that they'd have wider base. They've been selling really well, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have a wider install base, which is what I think we need before we get into the 'pro console' territory.
Host Richard Leadbetter then handed the baton to John Linneman, who talked about why consoles like the Xbox One X appeared but that doesn't mean we'll see the same this generation.
I think the PS4 Pro / One X kind of worked for two reasons. Because, one, there was the rise of 4K displays which were becoming popular, that's not happening with 8K displays I think.
Secondly, at least especially from the Microsoft perspective, they knew the original Xbox One was largely underpowered and not well received. It was the first time that Xbox came out with a console that was, below par, in terms of capabilities. That's not okay for the Xbox brand, hence Xbox One X was designed, essentially solved that.
So yeah, the DF team don't think TCL's claims have that much viability in 2022, and new, more powerful machines look unlikely in the immediate future. We're inclined to agree, especially as Xbox Series X still feels like it has untapped potential 18 months after launch.
But what do you think? Would you like new consoles in 2023 or 2024? Let us know down below.
[source youtu.be]
Comments 35
Since 95% of new games are still on last gen consoles then I see no point in pro models so soon
I agree with digital foundry in that we don’t need new models to reinvigorate the market; however, many past console iterations such as the ps slim etc have streamlined and reduced production costs for the consoles. So if Sony and MS can save a buck it may make fiscal sense to launch a new model.
better raytracing, FSR 2.0 and more storage thats enough for a mid gen upgrade
The 'need' for mid-gen models last time was to support 4K TV's. Neither Sony, nor Microsoft wanted to be the odd one out that didn't support 4K.
This time we don't have the same hardware reasons but we could have software reasons. We've already seen how hard Unreal Engine 5 and ray tracing affects frame rates. A mid-gen hardware upgrade could allow all those settings to be be on AND have 60fps. I don't see it happening though.
@UltimateOtaku91 Ironically having Pro models could potentially push devs away from last gen. lol
I'd imagine Sony are racing to get a smaller digital PS5 to market, however.
If the planets are aligned we might get 10 made for new generation only games by 2024.
Let alone a silly mid generation upgrade.
I say do it. More the merrier. I won't get it. But if a midgen refresh allows more consoles(I know, right?!) to be in the wild, why not.
I think it's crazy to even be suggesting consoles that can do 8K when most people don't even have 4K yet and there is very little regular tv content that even takes advantage of even 4K for the vast majority or people to consider it. Gaming seems to be the main thing that is trying to push resolutions too high and too fast for consumers to keep up with. Doesn't help that most people will still be gaming on base Xbox One's and PS4's in the next couple of years because of supply issues.
They are looking at this all wrong. Xbox has it's pro. That's the X. For xbox, the refresh will be the Series 2, and five years after that, it will be the Series 3
It won't be about generational leaps, or appealling to a certain high end market. It will be about refining and upgarding the current line.
Nor will the goal to be selling 100 million series Xs, but to grow the active Xbox Platform user base, across PC, Series 1, etc to more than that.
They’re right, it’s unnecessary for lots of reasons:
I’d bet money it’s a redesign, like a slim/smaller version that will MAYBE have more internal storage, but no GPU or CPU upgrade.
If they do a mid gen, I'll bite, and I don't even have a 120hz TV yet 😂 Been saving reward points for just that reason. 130k and counting. If I can get one purely on reward points, why not.
Who is actually believing that TCL is in the know on what Sony & Xbox are doing? They the budget TV brand right? Lol.
They will make smaller ones but i don't see any mid gen power refresh at all this gen. They haven't come close to utilizing the consoles yet so no way they messing with what they have.
So IF the isn't a mid-gen refresh, maybe that will mean we get the future gen console a little earlier.
However, I do think there will be a mid gen model of some sort...
I could see the X splitting... The standard model getting slightly smaller and losing the disc drive, then an X-Pro with disc drive and 2tb storage.
Maybe also a fresh design for the S (maybe with a slight storage bump).
I don't see anything coming out that is as big a leap as the One X was over the One.
The only way I'd be interested in an Xbox Series X|S "Pro" in the next few years is if it was an avenue for more splitscreen games, similar to how the first three Borderlands games support 4-player splitscreen on the Xbox Series X|S (as opposed to only 2-player splitscreen on Xbox One consoles). But that really comes down to the developers more than anything else.
I don't know, I'm still waiting on a PS5 Pro before I consider buying one, or at least a hardware revision. Satisfied with the Series X though, but I'm sure we could use an improvement eventually.
The biggest question is does pro models help or hurt development? Hurt. More hardware, and the old problems still have to be supported.
Then, how much of the market would be upgrading to make the supply chain nightmare worth it? Not much. It wasn't much last time either.
So mostly it would just replace these models for new customers and cost more to make with little to no effect on install base. Who would propose that?
Agree 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000%
There is NEVER a need for mid gen refresh. Just pointless. Use that time and funds to continue to development on next gen and be done with it.
If wanted to spend neverending cash on upgrading, I'd PC game again.
Although it can go up to 4K120 in some games, the Xbox Series X is a solid 4K60 machine with Dolby Vision. That’s enough for me.
It’s such an expected but wrong rumor.
I pretty much agree. I'm glad someone who gamers actually listen to said it.
Of course they're not needed; look at the glacial pace with which decent games have been releasing since the launches of both PS5 and XBox Series X/S. PS5 took over a year to have Horizon: Forbidden West to show for its frontline first-party efforts. Microsoft? Aside from Flight Simulator, Forza Horizon 4, and Halo Infinite (which also took several months or more after launch to materialize) there simply aren't really any must-play first-party titles available (and Halo Infinite being a dumpster fire has a LOT more to do with 343's priorities than it ever did with COVID).
You can have the latest and greatest, most powerful piece of hardware the world has ever seen, but without GAMES it's just an expensive doorstop. The GAMES are what hobbyists care about, not crypto, microtransactions, or whatever other online-centric business model the mega-publishers can conjure up.
I own all three current-gen consoles. The one I find myself playing the most (by far)? The Switch, because regardless of its comparative power, the thing has what Sony and Microsoft are still lacking a year and a half after their respective launches: GAMES I want to play.
I don't want to hear about what's coming two, three, or more years down the road anymore (and yes, Nintendo's been guilty as sin of that, too; see Metroid Prime 4 and Zelda: BotW 2), and I CERTAINLY am done listening to COVID being used as an excuse, because I've been watching, reading, and listening to the PRIORITIES of developers over the past couple of years. If you want my money as a consumer who votes with my wallet, you'd better give me what I want instead of arrogantly telling me what I'm getting.
Last gen there was a genuine purpose with the introduction of 4K TVs, now though I don't see the point. Certainly not in the short term as we have about 10 (if that) next gen exclusives between them and their only real weakness is ray tracing support.
@Xiovanni thing is Insomniac have already shown with Ratchet and Clank that this can be achieved by leveraging their 120hz modes and running games at 40fps
@Xiovanni they already offer that, at least on the SX.
I see the benefit of new consoles if the supply chain problems don’t resolve. New units could use smaller CPUs and yield more product. It could simply be a refresh that happens to be 5-10% faster on the CPU side and create mild improvements where the SX may have underperformed versus expectations (from the dev team’s perspective).
Microsoft is likely focused on streaming and games delivery. They had to push their Bethesda releases at least 3 months which really annoyed the leaders I’m sure. Starfield may be a Sony wrecker and bleed their potential install base because of that relationship. Not to stray from the topic at-hand. If they release an SX upgrade that drives better visuals, higher frame rates, etc I’m always interested to invest. Whether they actually drive mid-Gen upgrades is probably more of a question of “when” and not “if”, and I think the when is 2023, definitely not 2022.
Can we have some games for the current models first? I get why they’ve done it in the past, but I don’t feel like we’ve scratched the surface of what these consoles can do yet.
Companies are still making games cross platform with last gen. Also, can you even buy current gen consoles off the shelf yet?
I completely agree. We don’t have many games for the current generation and you can’t walk into a shop and buy one.
While the last gen really needed an upgrade because of the increasing proliferation of 4K TVs and because the originals were so underpowered, neither of these factors apply now.
@Anodyne I think TCL were saying it would be around 2023-24 if I'm not mistaken.
Mid gen upgrades this gen will just be a marketing gimmick. I expect that they would offer more stable framerates and resolutions in AAA games, but, won't offer enough to make everyone go buy them.
We are already seeing with the success of the Series S that console performance is starting to mature. The next step would be 8K support and I don't see that happening for a few more years since 8K TVs are rare to buy.
If the mid-gen upgrade for Series S offered 4K gaming that would maybe push more sales but an X upgrade won't push sales a lot more.
I'd like to see soft launches with better versions of all the consoles.
Like when Nintendo just started making Red Box Switches with better battery.
PS5 need more built-in internal space and needs more USB ports.
Size of the thing is also an issue, so Sony definitely needs a SKU update.
All these companies might want to get costs down & streamline components too.
Switch OLED should replace base version at $299. We can do better now.
If you look at how bad the chip shortage is combined with supply constraints I truly believe it'd be foolish for either company to release a "PRO" model. The only reason pro models worked last time was because BOTH companies already massive install bases and because by the time 2016/2017 rolled around 4K TV's had become increasingly cheaper.
The PS5 might as well be a golden unicorn, I've still never seen one on a store shelf. It took me 15 months to finally get my hands on one & the XSX wasn't much easier although I was able to get one much easier. Point being these consoles barely have an install base, these companies need to figure out how to get consoles into people's hands. Microsoft actually did smart by making a cheaper & easier to produce next gen system as it's the ONLY console I've actually seen in stores. My local Walmart, Target and BEST buy all had the Series S on store shelves. Producing pro models with more expensive components makes ZERO sense when Sony & a lesser extent Microsoft can't even mass produce their current flagship consoles. I think Sony and Microsoft need to focus on mass production of their current flagships and make sure that anyone who wants one can buy one from a secure legit source. My wife got tired of waiting for a PS5 so I asked if she'd be willing to try a series S I explained to her that since she doesn't play on a 4K display she didn't need the extra grunt of the PS5 or XSX and needless to say she's been so happy with her series S lol she hasn't touched her PS4 pro in months & now she's committed to the Xbox ecosystem. It just goes to show availability is everything, you can't sell consoles that aren't there. Happy gaming ✌️
They aren't needed like they were last gen which is why I think they're going to be super premium at like 700-800$ for people like me who will buy them. For those that don't care the s/x will hold out fine all gen unlike xbone/ps4. But don't doubt that they'll sell. I guarantee you pre orders will sell out like always no matter what they are. The thing is Sony is making a pro so Xbox has to as well, they can't let Sony take the power crown even if a mid gen isn't necessary. I'm all for it, when it comes to Xbox I'll buy a new better one every few years if that's what they offer. 500$ is half of what most phones cost and I get far more out of a game console than a phone so why not.
@Richnj logical comment in a sea of illogic. Your comment is a good explanation of why having some newer upgraded premium consoles in a couple years is perfectly fine. Does last year's phone you just bought still work fine if they make a newer one? Of course, this is no different, at least with Xbox since they're trying to get around the generation thing. I believe the "mid gens" this time will be a super premium version probably in the 6-800$ range for people like me that want the best version possible and will gladly pay for it even though I have a perfectly fine series x. I think the feeling with some people is that they either can't afford another one or don't want to pay for another one therefore they don't want it to exist for anyone else to enjoy if they can't or won't get it. If not that I don't know why anyone would be against it. Doesn't matter anyway because it's happening you can pretty much bet on it and I'll be there day one like I've been with every significant new Xbox model since the 360
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