Xbox co-creator Seamus Blackley drummed up a lot of attention on Twitter last night in response to a viral Xbox Live recording from Twitch streamer Grenade Queen, who filmed herself getting sexist comments in a Halo Infinite multiplayer game.
The video (which you can see below, but be warned that it features plenty of salty language) features two players telling Grenade Queen to leave the game — presumably because her skills aren't as good as theirs — making various sexist remarks in the process including a mention that "Master Chief was never a woman".
In response, Seamus Blackley had the following to say:
Blackley went on to point out that he's aware instances like this are "nothing new" for Xbox Live, but the fact that "nothing has been done for a long time" motivates him even more, and he wants Microsoft to openly address it:
"First we need Xbox and Microsoft to openly talk about it and address it as a problem. It limits the audience and impacts their profits. It’s morally wrong. And it’s something they can show leadership on by working in good faith."
"A lot of people will be angry to see what they think is always too little too late. But we need to call it out and not be fatigued. There are solutions if we shine light on it and work together."
You can check out all of Seamus's thoughts on this topic (there are many of them) over on Twitter.
Comments 105
Pfft this is nothing compared to the nonsense you can hear...why I usually just mute everyone so I don't have to listen to some dweeb saying things from the safety of his bedroom he wouldn't dare say to anyone's face
But yeah this is super cringe...pair of no lifers no doubt
Isn't it WELL passed time for harrassment to be a thing of the past? Who bloody well cares about the opponents gender, identity or favorite bubble gum? I've never once understood this 'gamer elitist' mentality of those lacking self-confidence and having to use a video game to belittle others and make themselves feel better. It is pathetic and embarrassing.
It’s not cool but that’s online gaming for you, anyone can get abuse for anything, sometimes it’s just not a nice place. Report if they annoy you enough and move on, it’ll never be perfect.
Sad truth is that this is never going to leave the online gaming scene, always full of idiots who a abuse people, hence why I don't bother with an headset anymore and can see why Nintendo don't include it with their systems
Reminds me of MW lobbies. I had a lot of questions for my mum during those days. Such an active social life she had.
But seriously it needs to stop, the problem is removing chat from the idiots without hampering teamwork and communication from those wanting to play together. It seems that most people just mute everyone nowadays to avoid this bull. I'm genuinely shocked when I get a game of Halo with team mates on mics and usually ask to party up when playing ranked.
There is also hostility on any internet forum including NL and PS that many of us have suffered. Like @StylesT says, they are losers that wouldn't dare say anything to anyone's face.
It sort of reminds of the racism that was hurled at me because of my Arabic gamertag back during the 360 days. Some things won't change, just have to mute the chat and keep playing.
It would be great if I could let my childs play online with anyone but that they only could talk with friend of friends... I think they are pretty close doing something like this, but there isn't any common platform for all developers to use.
Unfortunately still very common, one of the reasons I too don't use a headset, I know these companies out there feel like they cannot tackle this issue, but it's mainly as they don't want to. They know what needs to be done for this kind of abuse and also just generic internet abuse, but that would reduce revenue. I.e when you sign up you have to sign up with identification. A driver's licence. That way people cannot hide through VPNs and fake personas.
@Carck yeah, I think I've tried that, but if I activate that I had a few problems in certain games where it disallowed multiplayer.
I think the issue raises when it's a crossplay game.
An utter disgrace to mankind, then again the human race is the worst species on the planet.
Isn’t it a simple matter of banning them for life from the user account. Take a zero stance on this and it won’t happen. Stop pussy footing around, take action ban account for life. They lose everything account, gold, gamepass the lot. Then watch it stop happening.
People such as these should be identified and banned from the Xbox platform. There's no room for such idiots. If people thought they would be banned from the entire platform, they may at least keep their unwanted and inappropriate thoughts to themselves...
I hate to see things like this. It really puts me off playing online games with anyone but friends. Even then if it's a game that's also got other players you'll get abuse and slurs over voice chat or DMs after the game.
They need to take this seriously, and put more effort and resources into combating it. Of course you'll never get rid of it, but that's no excuse to not put every effort in. Particularly since Xbox and Playstation feel the need to charge you monthly for the privilege.
@Fiendish-Beaver
Totally agree, take action all you game companies.
Ban them for life, let them lose everything, they are scum of the gaming community.
Actually as Microsoft and Sony charge for this membership subscription they have a duty of care to its users.
Let’s see someone take Microsoft or Sony to court over this and win. Then they may ban these idiots for life and take some action.
@EquiinoxGII I fully support removing anonymity from the internet. What is the point other than doing shady stuff that (hopefully) won't be traced back to you? That said I don't think we should necessarily broadcast our real identity (for security concerns) . Maybe we have an internet license (with an internet name) and it never changes. We aren't anonymous anywhere else in life. Why the internet?
This clearly has to change.
In the meantime, I've got the habbit to just mute everything and everyone.
Yeah there needs to be a way to stop it. I probably said some stupid stuff online when I was a kid too. Racism, sexism, griefing and bullying need to find a way out of online gaming. I report as much as I can when I find these people out in the wild. Bans, suspensions and if it keeps having start taking levels away. Probably these people need help and education and they are in a community that can breed these ideations. You say something dumb and get a laugh out of your buddies. Well you are going to keep saying that nonsense until someone puts you in your place or you yourself find out that what you are saying "online" affects people "offline."
@Dezzy70 it’s unpleasant and they could/should face a ban of some sort but taking MS or Sony to court over it are you mad 🤣
I’ve gamed online and had some abusive messages sent my way during/after games. I either text them back taking the piss or block them, there are measures in place to report if you want (I don’t bother) and avoid unsavoury types. Maybe MS and Sony could do more, but this utopia people dream of where everyone is nice to each other and riding unicorns will never exist.
And this is why if I’m using the headset, it’s only in closed parties these days.
@Carck I agree with the "tracking down" risks hence why I said we should not broadcast our real identity. However, there should be some identifier that links bigot01 on Xbox to bigot01 on Youtube.
In life, you're only anonymous until someone (law enforcement) needs to know who you are, then you lose all anonymity. Not to mention, people that know you will always recognize you. A similar concept needs to exist for the internet. Something that prevents spoofing identity, and where people that know you will always know you.
Whatever happened to the days of Cod lobbies being full of 10 year olds who told you they fkd your mum.
Unacceptable behaviour, and sadly many of us have been treated pretty ***** online over the years I'm sure.
I don't know this streamer, I have just read the article.
I popped onto her Twitter and saw this:
https://twitter.com/Brandino035/status/1473199769942208525?s=20
She did not deserve to be treated like she was, but this was pretty ***** of her too. If it is all real of course, like I say I do not know this streamer or her history.
God forbid a woman tries to have fun and unwind in a way she enjoys. I would love for companies to start permanently banning abusive people like this.
This is why I always start a party and chat with friends only before entering an online game.
@JetmanUK well well well. Seems she isn’t so innocent herself.
These people are the worst.
xbox live allows you to report abusive behaviour
@JetmanUK Haha she's even worse because she is just as bad....but she's even more cringe because she tried to get attention as a victim....and technically what she said is worse...hope she gets banned haha
I almost NEVER play games online anymore, and to be frank it was the bots and the possibilities they offered that really sold me on Halo Infinite. I'll never be remotely confused with probably even average let alone really good players at Halo, but I still enjoy it every now and then; however, my overall experience with online chat has been overwhelmingly negative, so I'd rather fill out a local splitscreen match with friends/family (oh yes, 343, better get cracking on that and a few other kinda MAJOR features in Halo Infinite you released the game without, huh?) by using bots if at all possible.
As many above comments have already stated, a lot of folks either mute other users or don't even bother using a headset anymore (I personally don't, either). Sure, it leaves you at a huge disadvantage if you happen to come across a team that's actually coordinating as opposed to spewing childish profanities and insults, but them's the breaks, I guess. Just another casualty of the baser aspects of human nature...and unfortunately, I don't think that any amount of policing will eliminate the root of the problem: the darkness in people's hearts and minds which is only exacerbated and enabled by a sense of anonymity.
@StylesT that would be funny 🤣 plays the victim then gets banned herself too. Won’t happen though.
Either disable online voice/text communications or accept that people are sometimes crude.
I haven't played online multiplayer in a long time, so I don't know what systems are in place, but is it possible to report/ban these people? Couldn't a report with a 30-45 second video recording of the instance be fed up the chain and some Mod at XboxHQ revoke the offender's privilege of communications with others until a probationary period is fulfilled? Maybe even revoke online gaming access if it becomes too prevalent? There are solutions even if it's not popular with the barely out of Tween crowd.
L O L xD
It happens, get over it.
I tend not to play online games like this due to stuff like this. Which is fine I prefer solo campaigns anyway. But if it was something that could be fixed, I would keep a game pass/ps+ subscription going.
I do have game pass right now since it came with my series x purchase, but doubt I’ll keep it after it expires.
@StylesT @JetmanUK you can turn the other cheek just so many times before you just need to respond in kind.
I just mute people online if i can but yes its terrible this still happens. Once upon a time gaming was looked at as a hobby for "sweaty nerdy basement dwelling men" but nowadays everyone plays them so why be against it? Having people like Henry Cavill and Brie Larson be very open with their love for gaming helps break down that stereotype image we all hate, of course irony is those morons verbally abusing that girl are most likely that incel image some still have of gamers. We have a girl here playing Halo and gaming that's awesome so be happy instead of gatekeeping and being salty you haven't been laid yet haha.
@Tharsman I don’t think that’s the case. I think both parties here are as childish and idiotic as the other.
I can get behind that, but companies often pay lip service with stuff like this.
Also, the mute button is your best friend. Nobody needs to sustain that crap if you aren't within slapping distance of someone talking trash to you while playing a game.
@JetmanUK Yep that doesn't make her the victim anymore. She's getting a lot of free advertising for her broadcasts and she seems to be enjoying it. Toxicity vs. toxicity.
@Carck @NotoriousWhiz If being known was so dangerous all popular people would be in danger but, at the same time, nobody should be able to force anyone to identify themselves except the police if they are committing a crime. Police can track you down on the internet, indeed. I really can't help to find it funny when people here say I'm not saying my name because of security concerns. Giving all your data and exact address is a different thing, though.
@AtlanteanMan I've met nice people online, what I do is mute/report whoever bothers me. There are worse things I have to deal with.
@oconnoclast Probably off-topic but I just remembered an article that explained how some teams were looking for "slaves" to "work" (for free) in the virtual reality of Ark 😂.
Toxic people like this everywhere in online gaming, Just block mute and move on..
Oh my God lmao thin skinned are we? Can't handle a group chat with a bit of sass in it...don't turn on the console. This ultra idealistic leftist minority of loud voices killing everything need to stop! Your ruining entire industries with BS LOGIC.
@Carck When I said name I didn't mean surname as well. I said that I find it funny, not that I don't respect that. I don't think that you're saying the opposite of what I said but whatever, it seems that everything is either black or white these days.
Be careful what you wish for, when you say you want to perma-ban everyone for saying something offensive on social media just to virtue signal to everyone. They might just listen to you and you could be on the chopping block some day. Yes, this isn't pleasant, but I'd rather deal with these idiots and have them shamed publicly for what they said than to have gaming companies crack down too much on speech. Light is the best disinfectant.
If you think this is bad, try growing up with an Asian surname. 😂
A childhood of hell from it has left me as someone that pretty much doesn't get offended over personal insults.
I'd rather they do something about the constant quitters in games.
That is more prevalent than all this going on.
I mean they are both as bad as each other. Seeing both videos made me cringe that there are grown ass people saying these kind of things to each other.
She definitely let the women's side down playing the victim after she gave as good as she got. They are all pathetic. I can't take them seriously because of the words that came out of their mouths. ***** talking like a bunch of 12 year olds. They need to grow up.
https://twitter.com/Brandino035/status/1473199769942208525 Ahh let's just all ignore the other half of this story for the sake of feigning outrage. Guess we better ban her too then...
I’m not condoning what has happened…merely stating the following: this pool has been the same temperature for years. It shouldn’t be a surprise when people experience vitriol online. It sucks, sure, but there isn’t going to be a definitive fix for all this. Mute chat and don’t queue pub matches.
Or, become a savage yourself and engage with the idiots.
It’s gonna take more than some manchildren talking trash to me to put me off my games.
I've never really been into online gaming (even in FPS like Halo I play them more for the campaigns) and people acting the fool is part of the reason why. I don't actually mind trash talking, I played sports for a lot of years, but when I play video games I want to relax and some of the stuff I've heard people say to others on the rare occasions I do try multiplayer can be a bit over the top. Easiest solution is use the mute button. People can say 'it shouldn't have to be like that' but it's the same as saying 'that's not fair' when something in real life doesn't play out the exactly the way you want. The internet is vast, there's going to be a-holes. The tools put in place to mitigate the toxicity aren't perfect but used right you can have a mostly good time.
First thing I do after I boot up my Xbox to play Halo Infinite or any online game is create a party so I don’t get in game chat.
Seriously, what is wrong with people?!
Why is gaming so full of angry people?! I [expletive] hate people online.
One time, during a Halo Infinite flight, I had my chat volume up just to listen, and one of my “teammates” spent the whole time complaining about us because we were losing as if he had no idea his mic was on. The words coming out of his mouth were terrible.
I was in the US Navy and am no stranger to hearing some terrible language; but it was way over the top.
Before the match was over, I piped in and asked why he was so angry at the world. I think he finally turned his mic off because he never answered and I never heard him the remainder of the time. It was both hilarious and sad. It’s just a game…and a beta test at that.
It’s like people have NO idea how to socialize in life. Do they talk about co-workers and friends like that too?!
Show some decorum people!
Why do people only call this out when “sexism” is the issue? They were being abusive idiots and that is the real problem - them being abusive - it shouldn’t matter who the victim was.
Heck, this same lady herself has been caught abusing others herself, even using sexist insults saying they have a “small ****” and a “virgin”. That’s just as bad, right?
Ultimately, this is a problem within the gaming community. All abuse should be stopped. Not just sexism and racism, but all abusive behaviour. But how can it be stopped?
This really only comes out in competitive gaming. You don’t get it so much on Guild Wars 2 or Final Fantasy 14 where everyone works together an helps each other. But games like Halo and Rocket League, where people can’t handle losingc they just go to insult whatever way they can to win an argument.
They don’t realise they have already lost as soon as they allow themselves to get angry.
@Trmn8r we know how it is now. Just by being a part of a certain protected ‘group’ you can play the victim while being an awful person yourself with no repercussions.
I’m a male and the reason I don’t play multiplayer online is the endless abuse. It’s not just sexist (and that’s bad) it’s gatekeeping of “elite” gamers and sad little people who will abuse anyone that isn’t cool or good enough in their eyes to just look good. The whole thing is toxic to me and I play solo all the time. Now some games force me to play half online (Forza H) but I don’t have any voice and only race against AI. To take just the sexist nonsense isn’t solving the abuse people get everyday. All abuse should be stamped out.
@JetmanUK I'm all for banter and trash talk, but these two are just completely toxic and deserve each other.
@Carck I’ll admit my no online play has been in place for a good few years after just being fed up with it all. Maybe everyone has given up with them. I was led to believe on many squad shooters it was essential. Either way it’s not for me.
@Kienda I think it's because our society doesn't have values anymore and we don't really communicate even if it's a globalised society. It's a super selfish and stupid society where everyone thinks they're right and nobody cares for others because they think that they don't need anything/anyone. We don't have to like everyone (I don't) but, well, where has the respect gone?
I have 2 perspectives to look at here. One the girl being ***** talked to. Which was fine till they made it sexual and ongoing. Cause I had no problem with it if they just kept it Halo. But they didn't. She also had a mute button. 2. Our culture is responsible for this not Microsoft. When they said go on twitch and do what the top streamers are doing now, being sexual in the hot tub sending sexual vibes to these kids. So our culture is to blame on both parts. Stop being Dicks and Stop putting all girls into the same category and 2, Stop supporting adult performers who are corrupting how kids see girl gamers now. You don need to stream in a v neck 3 times your size, don't need to sit in an awkward position etc and gamers support it. It's our issue, not Microsofts. Also, shaming kids who were probably just ***** talk to flex with their boys put us in the same category. They apologized for acting up. I'm good with it.
Removed - inappropriate
These jokers may think they're anonymous and can say whatever they want to people, but Microsoft knows their real names and can ban them. Bet that's a never ending battle with online play.
@GuyinPA75 🤣🤣🤣 spot on.
I'm no expert but "I'm laughing because you have such a f***ing small d**k" is also sexual harassment? And she said it herself in her own video on her Twitter. But she's here playing the victim
I've heard as bad and often worse, especially in COD lobbies on the 360. That is why the mute is there. It's mean sure, but why has everyone become so unbelievably sensitive to what strangers say to them in an online videogame. Also why do people mention the year and then exclaim shock that people are still mean, as though human beings haven't had a mean streak for the last all of our existence. I was actually expecting this to be so much worse but really it was pretty cringe if anything. This streamer has also engaged in sexist insults online so I don't exactly see why she is so utterly offended here.
Can PureXbox do the right thing as journalists and update the article condemning her behavior as well please. Link: https://twitter.com/Brandino035/status/1473199769942208525
Part of the problem in addressing anything is as long as anything is addressed in pockets as specific individual groups, it compartmentalizes everything. This is abusive to women so this is bad. This is abusive to Asians so this is bad. This is abusive to [insert ethnic/racial group here] so this is bad.
Wouldn't it make a lot more sense and solve a lot more problems to address it as "this is abusive so this is bad?" What is helped other than financially backed lobbies and interest groups to continuously segment abuse and harassement based on which ehtnogendergroup is being targeted at the moment? If anyone is being targeted, whether it's due to gender, race, baldness, big ears, small head, speech impediment, not having cosmetics items totaling $1000 on their spartan so they must be poor....why are we pretending it's sometimes more wrong and less wrong to abuse people based on a cursory evaluation of their attributes? In effect, that basically promotes being abusive to people that aren't in designated protected groups by declaring it "less wrong" if the target isn't among those groups rather than simply training people that being a **** is wrong. The takeaway is that it's sometimes ok to abuse people, and then people will seek to test those limits of how far they can go. Then this happens.
@BlueOcean "I think it's because our society doesn't have values anymore"
That really ends every thread and every conversation in a nutshell right there.
I knew the wheels were falling apart one time, many years ago, earlier on the internet world in an argument about something with someone on the internet and was told "morality is just an opinion." On one hand, there's truth, but in reality the entire point of societies was to put everyone on the same page of the "morality" opinions to establish a code of behavior and interaction between all people in that society. The fact that different societies had different established codes of morality is what made them different, and sometimes hostilly incompatible, but at least within a society everyone was expected to be on the same page of morality/ethics/values, even if it was based on pretending for common decencey expectations.
Something at the end of the 20th century changed. Religion that used to be the backbone of that morality compass and instruction vanished within 15-20 years, and in it's place was the idea that morality is an opinion and everyone has a different morality. And extending from that, everything is acceptable so long as you can't get punished, and a cost-benefit evaluation of punishment is the only restraint anyone has governing their actions rather than an innate, instructed code of ethics. Schools and parents stopped teaching etiquette and ethics....too busy, the schools should do it. You'll harm your kids if you don't let them have their way, just give them a timeout. So now that's what we have. A society of "adults" who were never raised to have a standard code of ethics as kids, where each one is right, and invincible as long as no one is looking. A society of only children, regardless of their physical age.
@oconnoclast "Ultimately, I think the issue is that we are on a trajectory to be forced together as a society and asked to play nice, when what we actually need is our own spaces and an agreement to stay out of each other's hair."
Absolutely this as well. Forced homogenization, everybody hates each other, and the sage advice was if someone bothers you, avoid them. In this new world everyone is to be forced on everyone else and everyone else must be forced to pretend to like everybody else all the time. In the physical world it also goes along with urbanization.
Look on the bright side. Any time that was ever attempted in the past was called "conquest", and usually ended up with everyone killing each other. So the second dark ages might be the time of peace and distance we need?
I say report them and be done with it. It sucks when it happens to you but I think everyone has been a victim of this. Honestly, it happens once in a blue moon and doesn't deserve the attention it gets when it blows up. On a separate note, knowing xbox monitors party chat, I fully expect me and my buddy to be banned just for the things we say to each other privately. Gonna be a sad day when we get there. Keep it classy people, what goes around comes around
Blackley is spot on. That this has going on for so long and become normalised is a serious problem.
Look at all the replies here going ‘yeah but I’ve heard worse’ as if that makes it OK. Or those just resigned to it. Just because people have the safety of distance and semi-anonymity, and because this is how people often behave Online, doesn’t make it OK.
As a simple starter for a code of conduct, behave towards people Online the same way as you would if you were talking to them in real life. Is what you’re about to say likely to visibly upset someone or get you a punch in the face? Probably best not to say it then.
What is with these people trying to make a federal case out of every person that acts disrespectful over chat? If you can't handle that type of thing you probably shouldn't be chatting with a big open community in the first place.
This type of thing always comes off as a gatekeeping attempt for some individuals to have a power grab over the community as a whole.
I think it's because they come from corners of the internet, like Facebook and Twitter, where you have a lot of control over who is allowed to chat with you. So when they enter a big open space where anybody can participate, they get frustrated with their lack of control over everyone.
I love getting a mouthy one on fifa, think its part of the fun though..
Genuinely horrified by many of the responses here. Think it’s “banter” or “sass” to abuse someone you’ve never met online. These aren’t your mates who you know, and can push the boundaries, they are people you don’t know.
Do you walk up to strangers on the street and insult them? I bloody well hope not, so why do it online? Bunch of cowards! Ban the lot of them.
meh another metoo, like is it too hard for her to mute?
Whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me" ? Online social medias rapid growth shows us that roughly 10-15% of the population are trolls, or troll like. 300-400 years these kinda people were in control and were brutal as heck. Burning witches and creating the laws that still enslave us. The problem is too many overly sensitive people who cannot differentiate real hate speech and fantasy language. I heard what was said here and the lady didn't seem too distressed by it. No tears, no physical distress. I blame IMBD for starting this troll wave.
@NotoriousWhiz I don't think we would even need to share our details with the world, it's more of the point.. My name is attached to my account and Microsoft can see all my information. That way they know who to report me to. I know it's not that simple, like data hacks could cause a huge issue, but I agree, I think it's time.
@themightyant Strangers on the street aren't competing against you. If you are playing a sport (digitally or IRL), you can banter, you can get competitive, you just don't get abusive, racial, sexual, or otherwise, and if you do, you apologise (which coincidentally, from what I saw on that twtter thread, the guys did apologise).
@Richnj it’s true you aren’t competing on the street, that’s a fair point. But why when you are competing do people feel the need to insult each other? I don’t think it’s good that this has become normalised. You say you don’t get to be abusive, racial, sexual, etc. but this is often exactly where it goes in my experience. I don’t think I’ve ever played online without hearing some abuse. That’s not OK.
Also good to hear the guy apologised. Still doesn’t excuse saying it in the first place. Too many people saying “you can just mute” here for my liking. That isn’t a solution or a community I want a part of. But maybe I’m just old.
@themightyant Yeah, I don't like the "just mute" answer. People shouldn't have to mute others (because we should all have a decent level of social skills to be able to respect others) and I feel like it takes away from the whole reason to be online.
Playing Halo 2 and 3 was super special because the only way to talk to your friends, was to risk talking to strangers. Which gave the polygon spartans a personality. Fighting against a silent player is like fighting a bot, and we could do that offline.
This is really the reason schools and sports are super important. It should be a chance for kids to learn key social skills and to be able to be competitive without being toxic. Anyone acting like those in the article, obviously failed to learn those skills (whether that's their's or their school's failing is a completely different topic).
@Richnj completely agree. I played sport to a reasonably high level and while it was competitive on the pitch and occasionally there was a little rude banter it wasn’t often personal or toxic. If one of our teammates went too far we’d call them out and reign them in. Moreover at the end of the game good sportsmanship and respect was always there.
I see almost none of that Online. People using “trash talking” as a catch all excuse for offensive and abusive behaviour. You want to “trash talk”, play with your mates, not strangers.
I gave up on online because of this. It’s just not a nice place to be. This is meant to be a fun hobby and we should have MUCH higher standards. Sadly it’s become normalised.
Don't get me wrong. These idiots are terrible and should reevaluate their priorities in life but I don't agree with the idea of any company being able to control what people say and don't say online. I'd recommend people just use the mute option for people like this. That's what works for me and then I laugh as I imagine someone yelling at nothing!😆
The beat days of multiplayer gaming existed before online gaming IMO. You and your friends battled it out. You didn’t worry about making a game your life to be on some international leaderboard. You just had fun and went on. And also, in reference to this article, they were your friends and weren’t hiding behind a pseudo name. So they either didn’t say stuff like this or id they did you punched them, fixed your disagreements, and went on.
I still enjoy halo online as well as many other games. But I will forever be an old person at heart when it comes to my feelings in online gaming. That’s why I still play only with friends I know in person really and single player campaigns.
It’s just my opinion. But the world was better before we were absorbed in the internet.(and believe me I get the irony of saying this with a pseudonym while actively checking this new site every day).
True story. In the opening days of Sea of Thieves, my kids and I would man the helm (admittedly, them just watching me play). I set off on solo adventures, yet never found another player, like ever. One afternoon my daughter spied what she thought was a mast. I sailed towards it in hopes of seeing my first player and not an NPC. I saw him on the beach of an island and I furled my sails and doing a salute, we sailed past him.
The next thing I know, my surround sound speaker system is just filled with all sorts racist spewage, calling me an 'N' this and 'N' that and even other known skin color comments. I didn't know how the local voice system worked. I had never found another player. Yet here it was live and coming out of my surround sound system. He just kept calling me every name in the book and my kids sat staring at me in stunned silence.
I later learned how to mute that garbage but my days in SoT waned.
@Korgon "but I don't agree with the idea of any company being able to control what people say and don't say online."
Every online space is controlled by the owning company. Even here. Even the "free speech" social networks have TOS.
https://www.purexbox.com/rules
It is the best way to cultivate a community. It's either that, or every space gets 4chan level of quality.
@Richnj
I differentiate between typed words and spoken words. I agree with monitoring comment sections like this where words would stay forever including the unfriendly comments.
However spoken words over a mic simply come and go...well unless you record it anyway like in this case but that's just how I see it. Just ignore the bad actors and move on.
@Korgon But both create an unfriendly environment. And I'd argue it's easier to ignore something wriiten than it is to ignore someone yelling at you personally.
Any other kind of company would remove you if you were being verbally disruptive. I don't see why an online service provider should be forced to allow more than any other company.
I really only play with friends and we always form a party first this is one of the reasons. Some of my friends have younger aged kids. That being said xbox needs to bring the ban hammer heavy and hard. This is the one terrible thing the internet brought everybody is a tough guy these days and it is dumb.
Removed - discussing moderation
@themightyant @Richnj I think you guys are giving the real world too much credit. Heck back in the old days, back when we walked up hill to school, both ways, without shoes, carrying bricks, to build the school, on top of an alligator pit, I remember the kids, even face to face outside of sports being toxic, personal, and abusive. At the time I thought it was just toward me, and then found out even the bullies were bullied, everyone just abused everyone and everyone. I may have been at the bottom of the food chain, but the top apparently wasn't as better as it appeared. That was the early wave of a bunch of upper-middle-class-white-collar "rich kids" with parents whose careers were more important than parenting, so the kids behaved like savage feral animals because they were effectively raised as savage feral animals. That's now become the norm, not the exception. We've regressed.
Ultimately the original idea (women's lib some called it) where the idea of staying home an managing the household and raising the kids was challenged as unfairly designated as women's role, and was SUPPOSED to be a push to change things so that it wasn't designated by gender and either parent could be the bread winner and the other would stay home and manage the home and raise the family was rapidly corrupted into meaning NOBODY does, and institutions are paid to raise the kids and nobody manages the household at all....conveniently it also happened to double the workforce and halve the value of labor. Funny, that.... The result is the chaos we're living in now. Indeed, nobody raises the kids, and they remain children for the rest of their lives. It's not going to change, it's either going to get worse, or an even more problematic authoritarianism will replace it by popular demand. There was no other path once the idea of families was disposed of. It's a factor even I forget as monumental to how society transformed, and not for the better, in the past 30 years. And I don't see any fix for that, at least not one that won't take at least 3 generations to fix, and we'll certainly all be dead by the time it happens were it to even happen. But it won't happen, because it's not in the interests of global business's quest for infinite cheap labor.
Now we have multiple generations raised on the internet, where the internet world is the normal world, the only world that people ever knew, and internet behavior has carried over into the real world. I'm honestly positive that most of these people behave exactly the same way IRL. It's not an anonymity thing anymore, that's just how they'll behave if they don't know they're being monitored by an authority with punitive power over them.
I come from the world of text chat in games....voice didn't exist back in early PC online, and I was horrified when it was invented (thanks, Microsoft!) I never accepted its existence at the start, and still don't now. People complaint about Nintendo's lack of chat, but honestly the only reason Splatoon is the only online game I play (other than MMO without voice) is expressly because it has no chat. If it did, I'd stop buying it.
@orionreplay That was a 100% authentic pirate sim experience, though, so there's that.....
@NEStalgia "It's not an anonymity thing anymore, that's just how they'll behave if they don't know they're being monitored by an authority with punitive power over them."
OK. Lets take that at a given. (I disagree in part but don't have the time or energy to debate that today, but I am an optimist... mostly) Should Xbox allow that on their platform? I think they SHOULD be the authority with punitive power.
@themightyant Perhaps, but I think that's probably the wrong question. If we're a society comprised largely of barbarian savages, and our primary sense of civilization comes from closed, paid for, commercial platforms with active human policing monitoring all conversation for whatever the daily abuse definition defined by Legal is, why even bother at that point?
I'm not really saying it's ok that it exists on Xbox, I'm saying that we're at a state of society (or lack thereof) that we're caught between barbarianism and authoritarianism, and I'm not sure that replacing one with the other is necessarily an upgrade. Once the very concept and will of ethics is lost, policing doesn't solve the problem, and usually creates an even worse problem. (Who watches the watchmen, and so on.)
But it's devolved so much, at this point, if the Covenant were to show up and start glassing the planet, I'd send them a cheese basket despite their lateness.
@NEStalgia LMAO That last line gave me some properly morbid Christmas cheer. I might frame it. Merry bloody Xmas to you NES
I rarely chat, but I usually have a headset on when plying shooters so I can hear can hear what’s going on better and get a sense of direction sometimes, since I don’t have surround sound. I believe in freedom of speech in general, but insulting people is just wrong. It may be my imagination, but Halo Infinite’s community seems to be particularly toxic. Idk what the solution is.
@NEStalgia In an article about sexism online, your solution appears to be (and please correct me if I'm wrong) to kick women out of the work place and put them back at home to raise the kids?
@Korgon Yeah I think the distinction needs to be made how these are paying customers who are paying to use a service. You can't get too controlling with customers when they are paying like that, as a lot of entitlement comes along with charging people to use something. Xbox already had a bad PR disaster with the Xbox One launch and anti-consumer practices souring the brand, they don't need to be trying to ruin their relationship with their userbase.
Due to the nature of online gaming, especially highly aggressive and competitive genres such as FPS multiplayer, there is always going to be a lot of trash talking that goes along with it. I mean you are playing games where the goal is to hunt down and kill your opposition, how clean do you need that kind of scene to be?
@Richnj No, not at all. My point was that the ORIGINAL idea was that the role of raising the kids shouldn't be automatically designated to women. I.E. The role of working or staying home and raising the kids could and should be interchangeable, men could be the "housewife" and women could be the "bread winner" or vice versa. That was the ORIGINAL argument. Not "ending family life" but ending designating the role in family life by gender.
At some point that changed to EVERYONE is the bread winner and NOBODY raises the kids or takes care of the home, ending the concept of family life entirely. Promoted no doubt by business interests seeing the chance to double the workforce and halve the cost of labor.
The idea that women could be the breadwinners and men the family caretakers rather than assigning that role by gender was a good one, and a win-win for everyone, the only casualty being departure from a tradition.
Instead of allowing the roles to be reversed for equality between the sexes, society was coerced into disposing of the role entirely to the detriment of society at large. That role was a critical pillar in ordering society, and it's erasure has inflicted myriad harm on society that no doubt will ever be solved. The result is, we get this, "adults" that are still children. Several generations deep, now. With the internet adding kerosene to the dumpster fire.
@themightyant Haha, you as well!
@NEStalgia I'm with you that families should be able to support the entire family with one salary. I've done stay at home, work from home, and full time, and none of it is easy.
I don't see that as a problem from women's liberation. I see that as a problem caused by capitalism and governments.
@Richnj We're definitely in agreement then! And yeah, it's not "because" of women's lib, that was originally to be just the equality and role swapping....but the capitalism and governments used that as a weapon and very subtlety and quietly twisted that message into the new one, and used "double incomes = double the money, go buy McMansions, people!" that lasted exactly half of one generation as the carrot on the stick to make it happen. Then the economy was forever distorted after that. Few ever even saw it happening. They were busy reveling in "so much money" until the inflation negated it within a few decades.
@NEStalgia,
Correct, people can't be forced to love and respect each other, no matter what group they belong too, hell even the same groups of people, and family units can't get along many times, would all this be classed as hate?.
Respect has to be earned and can't be forced, it just does not happen that way, you can force people to respect things but it's never true respect.
Another issue is the opposing view to any group is automatically seen as the enemy, when it could just be a simple difference of opinion, or a different standpoint, there also seems to be this move towards criminalising any argument and labeling it hate speech, which begs the question who defines what qualifies as hate speech in the first place?.
How is a whining e-girl a story?
Don’t be too harsh on the fellas!! They’re probably virgins an not used to female company.
@Dezzy70 Totally agree!
@johnvboy Fancy seeing you here on the green page!
Absolutely true. That's similar to occonnoclast's comment in #54 about being on a trajectory to be forced together as a society when what we really need is distance, which is something I've thought about for a long time. More and more everyone is being forced to be one happy group where everybody loves everyone and every thing. A horrifying vision of a utopia that could never exist without force and drugging a population.
It's a thing I think about every time one group or another attacks or shames others for not embracing them. Tolerance, non-discrimination in an absolute sense is one thing, but most movements for that seem to end up shifting to demanding to be embraced by all rather than tolerated, an impossible goal, but increasingly aggressively demanded from various corners. People will always be uncomfortable with various other groups of people, for logical or illogical reasons, and that will always be constant. The disturbing utopia we're increasingly forced into is to pretend with a smile that's not true, and everyone celebrates everyone always. And then they can't figure out why people keep killing people....
@StylesT this is why when i play online i start a private voice chat with nobody and then play my games....miss the days of online with no voice chat...its actually why i LOVE playing the Splatoon 2 online on the switch no voice chat....sad thing is most people who say ***** to me in games wouldn't dare say it to my 6'3" 320lb face....as id likely knock their teeth into the back of their throats.
I've seen the majority of people, and they fcukin suck. So when they have a platform, that affords them anonymity, of course the vitriol is gonna come out. A lot of pent up frustration, because of their lot in life. You can tell how small, intellectually and physically, some is when they jump straight to racist or homophobic taunts.
Show Comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...