The CEO of Moon Studios, Thomas Mahler, has opened up about why he's decided not to partner with Xbox Game Studios for the developer's next title (non-Ori related), which has previously been described as "an RPG that dares to innovate and go far beyond what the genre has offered players thus far.”
Responding to Phil Spencer's recent comments about why Bungie left Microsoft back in 2007, Mahler explained that the decision to go with Private Division instead of Xbox was (at least in part) due to platform exclusivity reasons.
"We always got so many gamers saying that they love Ori, but hate that they can't play it on PlayStation. Well, why not? Because it was funded by Microsoft, hence they call the shots. Luckily, we got Microsoft to allow us to port Ori to the Nintendo Switch, but that didn't come for free and they probably only allowed it cause the title was small enough to not cause any fuss.
Our next game has a grand vision where we want everyone to be able to play together, across all systems, where Moon owns the platform and the IP and we can steer it into the best direction in order to hopefully make as many people as possible happy without having to tell some of them that they're **** out of luck... cause business."
Mahler also mentioned in his long response over at ResetEra that he felt Xbox wasn't acting accordingly on its idea of having "no artificial walls, no boundaries", most likely due to the fact that "the other parties aren't playing along".
He says he'd ultimately like to see Microsoft "hav[ing] the guts to just go through with their vision" by making their games and porting them to all platforms, setting an example for the games industry in the process.
"Show the industry that that's how you get the most amount of players to play your games. Didn't Minecraft show that that's the right way forward? If they'd do that, I'm sure pretty quickly everyone would follow suit, because usually all these corporations copy what makes the most amount of money... and on top of that, it's the best thing for the players out there."
There's no word on a release window or any major details on Moon Studios' upcoming 3D action-RPG just yet, although it was said to be in early development as of July last year, with the suggestion it was at least a couple of years away at that point. In any case, we know that it'll be a very different experience to the Ori games.
What do you make of the Ori director's comments? Let us know down below.
[source resetera.com]
Comments 42
I'm wondering what will happen, when a company comes with a bag full of money and wants it timed-exclusive for 1-2 years.
Will he say no, we want that everyone can play together or will he take the money^^
Absolutely respect them for this and wish more devs would be open minded like this. One day in the future all games can be enjoyed by all no matter what system you have.
Wish it worked the other way around but rarely seems to! Glad those on the PS side can benefit from this.
I still think there's an argument for console exclusives. Look at Nintendo's games, which consistently make the most of the hardware in often interesting and innovative ways. Is he saying that Wii Sports should also have been designed to work using a controller on an Xbox or PlayStation, just in the name of having "no boundaries" for players? It's one thing if the hardware is basically identical across platforms but I certainly don't want that to be the norm going forward. Hardware innovation breeds software innovation.
My issue here is MS owns the Ori IP now. He had to know when it got to that point the freedom of where his game went was going to not include PlayStation.
@mousieone Yea I mean he agreed to and benefitted from the deal with Xbox at the time. So not much point whinging about it afterwards that they wouldn’t allow it on Playstation.
And to be honest, it is so easy now, because of Microsoft, to access Ori that no one is really “**** out of luck” as he puts it. But got to keep those Playstation only gamers as happy as possible.
@UltimateOtaku91
This will only happen if Nintendo, Sony and Xbox go the Sega route and turn into a publisher only.
But who will then produce consoles for a reasonable price if they can't lock you into their eco system und get a 30% cut from every sale?
Translation: We want more money, and Microsoft wouldn't write the check.
Why do Playstation never get called out for this? They've been seriously aggressive this gen in getting third party Exclusives. Even games that were timed Exclusives for Playstation have had their time period extended like Final Fantasy 7 Remake and Fall Guys. Yet no one is calling them out.
They've got Forspoken, Sifu, Kena and Stray as timed Exclusives and there's talks that the same is happening with BioShock 4 yet when Microsoft does it its bad. I bet if Playstation went to moon studios with millions, this developer wouldn't think twice.
the answer to the console exclusivity issue is pretty simple: exclusives stay exclusive for 1-2 years, then publishers (including Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo) can sell their game wherever they please. this way you still buy the console you want, because if you love Sony's games, you're still buying a Playstation so you can play them at release, but Sony gets to sell SpiderMan to everyone, allowing them to make more money, and possibly even keep game prices down. no one would be upset but the "Console Warriorz", and who gives a crap about them?
@Chaudy it' so weird. Final Fantasy 7 Remake STILL isn't on Xbox and who knows if it's ever coming, Persona still never goes to Xbox, no one says anything. but everyone is ALL over Microsoft lol
@K1LLEGAL the other thing that baffles me is he seems to act like there is massive amount of people wanting to play this game that haven’t. I mean it’s on literally everything but PlayStation, how many sales are actually left on the table? Switch install base is creeping up on the PS4 and MS has xCloud. I can’t see it really effecting a lot of people.
@Chaudy as far as I know people are always calling sony out and moaning about their timed exclusives, but obviously sony players aren't moaning and nintendo players aren't moaning either as those games wouldn't even run on a Nintendo console, so really the only people moaning about sony's timed exclusives are xbox players which out of the three consoles are the minority in size, that's why Sony don't and won't listen
@Murray As a creative who has run his own (non-videogame) studio before, this is always a hard balance. It's not usually about the money but occasionally people make an offer that is hard to turn down, especially when you have the jobs of dozens, or hundreds, of people and their families weighing on your conscience and decisions.
We used to do the occasional job for the money to keep things more fluid but on the whole did the projects we wanted to creatively. If we didn't our best talent would leave. I suspect it is the same for Moon Studios, who from all the interviews and documentaries I have seen are very keen on pushing their creative boundaries. As such this seems like a good choice for them.
At the end of the day, the owner makes the decision. Whether that's an independent Studio or major Publisher/platform holder. If a 'independent' developer, like Moon for example, need the 'financial' support and turn to a Publisher to fund that game, then they have a right to stipulate what platforms they are willing to 'fund' that development for. With Xbox or Sony, you expect some 'exclusivity' (timed or otherwise) to get 'something' from their investment too. Why would MS fund a project and get 'little' from it.
Minecraft is a very different animal in that the game was released independently initially and have continued to support it after buying Mojang.
Maybe the 'success' of Ori has left Moon Studio's to fund a larger part, if not all of their next project and therefore can negotiate a publishing deal elsewhere that isn't Platform locked and will release on all applicable hardware.
I think MS's strategy is far more 'open' than Nintendo and Sony. Yes you may not be able to play on 'Switch' or 'Playstation' (at least whilst Game Pass is not on those), but you also have PC and Mobiles and a LOT of PS/Switch owners have those devices too. Got a Mobile or PC, well you can play these games too. Prefer the console, well then maybe you will need an 'Xbox' and the Series S is relatively cheap, small and compact.
I can't see Sony releasing their 'Marvel' Licensed games on Xbox despite the universal appeal of these iconic characters - let alone their other franchises even though the 'potential' sales of those would seemingly bring in significant 'profit' to Sony. However, its the fact that these also help boost the profits of the other platform. It would cost Sony to Publish to Xbox, use their trademarks etc on box art/adverts etc. Also lose 'digital' sale profits to Xbox, they'd get just publisher, developer profit - but the bulk of profit still goes to Xbox for games sold on that platform. By being the Developer, Publisher and Platform holder, you have the maximum profits.
At the end of the day, independent devs have a choice to accept the Publishers stipulations if they are funding the games development as they want to get a return on their investment or try and fund the game yourself and then self publish...
Expecting a Platform holder to fund a games development, advertise and publish that game on their competitors platform is completely unrealistic. MS support existing games on other platforms, but that was 'unexpected' and uncharacteristic of the industry as a whole. Everyone expected games like Minecraft to become exclusive. After purchasing Bethesda, there was an 'expectation' that Starcraft, ES6 and the 'next' Doom, Wolfenstein etc to release on 'ALL' platforms but as soon as Sony buys a Studio, they expect ALL games to be locked to PS...
As I said, I think MS are more 'open' than any other Console holder. They are not locking their games to a specific Platform and giving 'gamers' a much wider choice of Platforms. You have XB1S/X (streaming only for 'next gen' games), Series S/X (for local/streaming), PC (for local/streaming) and Mobile (streaming only) and who knows what devices in the future - maybe won't need a 'device', just a Smart Display and a Game Pass Subscription so Switch/PS gamers have 'options' even if they can't play on Switch/PS. On PC/Mobile, they can even use their preferred controller too - essentially, they probably own the hardware to play these games on.
He's unfair when comparing Microsoft to the other two. I mean, Sony wanted their own customers to pay again for playing the same first-party game on another of their own platforms until they backtracked because of the backlash (Horizon: Forbidden West) and PS is the most closed platform, even more than Nintendo. Microsoft are allowing everyone to play their games on Xbox consoles, PCs and mobile devices for one price. Even if Microsoft published their games on PS5 or Switch, do he really thinks that Sony and Nintendo would do the same? Did Xbox get Mario after bringing Banjo to Switch (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and Nintendo Switch Online)? Did Xbox get Dreams after bringing Minecraft Dungeons to PS4? Nintendo and Sony won't publish anything for Xbox so Microsoft are wise thinking twice and using open environments.
@Murray that's true, I was think more like all three of them have their own seperate streaming app like gamepass and ps now but also available on either console and pc
A piece of advice to Moon Studios, if you don't want Microsoft to publish your next game or own the IP, you'd better publish the game yourself so at least the publishing is "for free" and you can do whatever you want with the game.
@BlueOcean I'm not sure PS is more closed than Nintendo - at least some of their exclusives are going to PC. Can't say I expect to ever see Nintendo IPs on PC or any other platform.
So this guys philosophy is to not have exclusives on any system going forward and he’s upset MS aren’t doing that. Okay.
I'm not a fan of console exclusivity in general, and would love a world where you buy the console based on the functionality and ecosystem rather than games that are locked to it. And yet even though I agree, I find this guys comments kinda cringey and self-serving.
@dmcc0 Yes, that's right, they're on a par with each other. Nintendo was slightly more open about cross-platform multiplayer a few years ago when Sony refused to allow it but that's it.
@UltimateOtaku91 why would Sony players be moaning about timed exclusivity on their own platform? 🤣 that literally makes no sense. They sure as ***** do moan when it’s the other way around. Every fan base has moaners, I find Sonys to be the most elitist bunch of hypocrites around.
@Murray This is Thomas Mahler. I would VERY much bet he takes the money and goes exclusive. I mean he halfway did with Ori, with the 4K HDR version exclude to Xbox.
And using his argument why stop there? What about mobile players? What about Mac? What about N-Gage owners?
And using Minecraft as a false equivalency is extremely disingenuous of him. He knows damn well the myriad of reasons why something like Minecraft made it to Sony platforms while Ori didnt.
Guy sounds more like a troll than a CEO. You would expect more intelligence from a guy running a company.
If whiny PlayStation owners wanna play Ori so much let them pay Microsoft for GPU and stream it via the cloud.
Do you guys not have phones?
I see many red flags. For one, these are very “I’m a naive indie” words, yet they want to make an RPG where everyone plays together… so an MMORPG? From an indie team with no big publisher funding?
Anyways let’s see whenever this project magically materializes, and if we end up seeing an “only on PlayStation” trailer when it gets revealed…
@dmcc0
https://www.nintendolife.com/nintendo-mobile/games/browse
@armondo36 that's exactly what I thought with your translation
@Chaudy Yep. Still think that really hurt the Avengers not having spidey on Xbox. Yes the game was so-so for multiplayer. But not allowing me to play as spider-man really leaves me never wanting go back and play again. Especially with all the games out now.
Only so much time in a day I'm able play games. Not give me a reason play your game then I'm playing what interests me.
So let me get this right...
The guy signs a publishing deal with a platform holder in order to get his indie game off the ground.
He then cries that it's tied to one platform, even though available on Xbox consoles, PC and Cloud.
He then gets a Switch port greenlit.
Still not happy, because he wants the game to be fully multiformat, even though the publishing deal is with a platform holder.
Then wants Xbox to scrap being a platform holder and simply become a publisher.
Sounds like a very intelligent fellow...LOL
@Bluerangervegeta And? I mean, it was pretty clear from the context of the article and the comments that I meant Nintendo exclusives weren't on other platforms.
Those games are mobile apps and are not even on Nintendo consoles, never mind others - but it's the internet, so I guess it's a requirement to try and be a smart-arse 🙄
@dmcc0 "B-b-but mobile doesn't count as a platform for some reason because..... because..... well, because reasons! Showed you smartass."
@Murray will most likely take the money. It's the smart move.
Why is Microsoft is the only one to be call out on that?! All those years with PlayStation exclusives and not a single complain. Microsoft has to do nothing about other platforms, her platforms are Xbox, PC and Cloud. period.
If we start to call out for multiplatform games lets call out everyone, Sony and Nintendo as well. Not only Microsoft.
But no, we can't mess with PS Exclusive, cant mess with Nintendo exclusives, but Xbox should go multiplatform. That's so tiresome.
Funny part is that he complain about the game not being on PS but when Microsoft offered tons of cash for the exclusivity they signed the deal.
Doesn't matter who the platform holder is. None of them give a crap about any of us. We are just money going in the bank to them. Whether it's a publisher, small developer or the giants like MS, Sony and Nintendo. None of them do right by us. Only what will make them more money. I would believe otherwise if they were not for profit. This notion that one is a Saint and one is a sinner isn't real. Just a lot of good marketing.
@blinx01 He sounds more like a troll than a CEO as @Bluerangervegeta said 😂.
@eduscxbox Because he's a hypocrite. The game wouldn't even exist without Microsoft. Now that he's famous and relatively rich, he could try on his own without ***** on his first patron.
@Chaudy facts. It’s only bad when Microsoft wants to do it.
@Murray But isn't that technically what they've done? I'm pretty sure MS paid them money for publishing Ori. And now they've said no to the money?
He calls out all platforms in this discussion saying the reason
MS don't play nicely is because none of them do and he's completely correct to want to have his own vision without corporate control.
In what world do 95% of comments side with the huge corporation over art? Isn't this an excellent scenario where he will make HIS game and we all get to experience it?
Isn't it like saying we're angry at Christopher Nolan for refusing to make a film for WB because they want to control his artistic direction and only show the film on WB network - and then nearly everyone on this site complaining he's a tool for doing it because now everyone will get to see his film?
Unless I have completely misunderstood what this article was about?
@StonyKL
Actually a independent developer/publisher and a platform holder have the same interest, their primary goal is to make money and not to make all player happy. Its just different how they will reach this goal.
If a platform holder would make more money when they release every game on all competing platforms too, they would actually do it allready.
If he will accept any exclusive deals in the future his words will be reminded as very hypocritical.
@armondo36 FFVII Remake is a case of timed exclusivity followed by extended timed exclusivity. Intergrade for PS5 meant the end of timed exclusivity for the game moved from April 10th 2021 (1 year after base game launch) to December 10th 2021 (6 months after Intergrade launch).
Given the dripfeed of FF games on Game Pass, I don't expect FFVII Remake to come to Xbox until April 2022 (Lightning Returns release in February then FFVII Remake in April) though the timing of the end of its timed exclusivity means it may be a Game Awards announcement.
as i said yesterday, this IS the way forward. it's just a matter of time. games cost too much to produce, and simply raising prices isn't sustainable. the answer will be, everyone releases their games to anyone who wants to play them. you will see timed exclusivity take the place of outright exclusivity.
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