Topic: Finding the right TV for Xbox Series X

@Banjo- thanks for the share. Interesting.

@Titntin Completely agree. C1 is likely still the best price/performance of the high end televisions. This Samsung is still crazy expensive, it’s more the ‘money no object’ tv right now, but in a year or two it will be the same price as a C1/equivalent.

I actually have a Q90R for 2 reasons
1) My room is super bright (south facing, dual aspect) my OLED wasn’t bright enough
2) I did have a B7 (or was it a C7, I forget) and it got minor, but annoying, burn in 😢

It’s not too far off 3 years since I created this topic and I’ve still not upgraded to a new tv. That is finally changing this year as I’m just going to buy one in March, it’s been over 2 years since Series X and PS5 have launched and Xbox should be releasing quite a few big games this year so it’s about time I have a new tv that really takes advantage of those consoles. I’ve done my research and with OLED out of the question, it’s got to be the best mini-led tv. I’m deciding between the Samsung QN85B 65” £1,299 or the QN90B 65” £1,499. It’s just a shame that Samsung are still stubborn to not included Dolby Vision.

I’ve seen that the Hisense U8U 65” £999 is a good tv and highly rated from users and several sites that recommend TVs for gaming but it must lack several things that the Samsung does, like more speakers, anti reflection screen, brighter picture etc. Plus it must be of poorer build quality and lack better picture quality and black levels.

I really wanted the Philips PML9636 65” but that has only recently been reduced to £1,899 just a measly £100 off from its original £1,999 price. It’s strange that it’s hard to find sites that review this model and that it’s not even mentioned on many sites that recommend it, even Hisense and TCL are on many sites and have many reviews so why is this Philips mini-led model omitted?

@MaccaMUFC why was OLED out of the question for you? I've been a bit out of touch and not done further research on TVs since I settled for the LG C1 55 inch for £1050 in black Friday 2021. If the price of OLEDs is the main concern, the only thing I kept track of in terms of TVs was how much mine retailed for after I bought it. It went back up to it's ~£1300 RRP for a few months and then dropped right down to about £900 around February/march/April 2022. I assume because the C2 was either out or on the horizon. If that's anything to go by then I guess the C2 will get a similar price drop when/if the C3 is in a similar position.

Even though I paid £150 more than it's final price for the C1. I don't regret buying it at all. Considering the amount of use it has had, the fact you can never predict prices accurately and also that if I'd waited for a bigger price drop and the C2 was available, I would have faced the tough decision about whether to get "last year's model". I think the £1050 I paid for the TV was a happy medium between all those considerations.

If it's not price then my apologies! I thought I'd share what my considerations were that led to my decision. Of course you might be thinking of other things like daytime watching, lighting conditions, maybe mini LED is better (I don't know, I just got sold on OLED from people's experiences here when I reached out for advice), etc.

I had a similar thing when I was looking at the Philips equivalent of the C1 back in 2021. Not a lot of reviews but on paper, the specs looked really good and I was intrigued by the ambilight. Ultimately, not being able to see it in store for demonstration, no stock of it in brick and mortar stores and me running into an old friend who worked in an AV store and giving me a better than Black Friday price for the C1 led me toward buying that TV instead.

@MaccaMUFC I've not 'upgraded' either from my Samsung KS8000. I still have 'concerns' about OLEDs and really like the One-Connect box that Samsung do - but as you said, Samsung are reluctant to offer Dolby Vision - although the 'better' the HDR Quality your TV offers, the 'less' you need DV. It's more inconsistent too in some ways. By having Variable 'Metadata' instead of Static Metadata, you get an 'inconsistent' tone mapping algorithm. In a scene that maybe tops out at 500nits, DV would rightly not utilise tone mapping on most TV's because that scene is within the TV's range. With static Metadata, it would still be using the 'same' Tone Mapping algorithm so anything that's 500nits, will ALWAYS be the same brightness tone mapped down if your TV needs to Tone Map with HDR10.

Yes that may mean some 'darker' scenes look 'darker' on HDR10 because its 'consistent' with the Tone Mapping algorithm required to 'fit' Brighter scenes where Dynamic Metadata can change the Algorithm to suit the 'scene'. But that is 'consistent' with the rest of the film as all content is tone mapped with the 'same' tone curve. If 500nit areas are tone mapped down to 350nits, then all 500nit bright areas are always 350nits with HDR10, with DV, it may drop to 350nits in the 'brightest' scenes, but could be displayed at 500nits in the darker scenes so is less 'consistent' but does make some scenes look more impactful on TV's that need to tonemap HDR content.

We are about to see the 'new' range of TV's expected for 2023, so it maybe worth waiting a few months - unless you find a TV you'd be happy with discounted because its now 'old' stock.

I thought I might actually share my experience as an OLED owner, a little bit more than one year after buying it (14-15 months or so).

Basically I've not had any issues. No burn in. I don't watch news or sky sports which are the things I typically see "burned in" to other people's TVs. No dark patches, no dead pixels. I've been worried about certain things in games, like centred reticules and hud elements but nothing has burned in or damaged the TV so far. I believe the LG C1 has a feature that "darkens" static elements of an image to prevent burn in, I've seen it darken the screen when I'm paused but never noticed it otherwise if it's been applied to portions of the image. Also, most modern apps and consoles tend to have "moving screensavers" which I guess helps to work against burn in.

I also feel somewhat (though perhaps foolishly) safe with the extended warranty that was given to me on purchase. I can't remember if it was 5 years or 10 years. I did bring up my fear of burn in and dead pixels to my mate in the shop. Him and his colleagues all told me that it's much rarer these days and modern TVs are designed to limit that sort of wear and tear. One of the colleagues went as far as to say they hadn't seen an OLED with burn in for many years. Whether that is a sales pitch or not, I don't know. All I can say is my experience which is that I've yet to experience any issues. But apart from gaming, like I say, I don't watch BBC News or Sky Sports News which are the biggest culprits for causing issues like that.

In terms of the settings, I'm no expert. So take what I say with that in mind. For gaming, I have turned on DV on the Xbox for games, I've found it to be a bit darker and less vibrant than HDR but ultimately I'm not that bothered. I usually just let the Xbox and the TV's "Game Optimiser" do its thing. It's fine, normally the game lets you set brightness levels when you first start playing and doing that accurately has always left me with a desired image. I don't play a huge amount of moody and atmospheric games but when I have, the blacks have been black and I believe the developer's intended effect has been achieved.

For movies, I'm still working things out. I remember the first movie I watched on this thing, without touching any settings was Prometheus. It looked amazing, blacks were black. It was brilliant. More recently however, I watched Interstellar, maybe a few months ago. Space looked grey and washed out, I couldn't work out if it was just the directors intention or not. I messed with the settings, reduced brightness and I ended up using the tunnel scene in Inglorious Basterds as my reference because I feel like I know how that should look. I settled on some settings that were good enough.

Recently, I messed with it a bit more as I was rewatching the first series of Daredevil. It actually went largely unchanged, I think I might of upped the brightness by 1 or 2 increments (it's still under half way) but I'm satisfied with the results.

Soundwise, for films I change it to cinema and for games it's on game optimiser, "network" TV shows matter a lot less but I tend to change it to Cinema for any TV that's more cinematic. It sounds absolutely fine, I have no additional speakers or woofers (I live in a flat). The TVs speakers are loud and clear and I don't get a lot of what I used to get on my parents TV, which was that dialogue was too quiet in comparison to the special effects (I assume that old TV had trouble translating surround sound to stereo). None of that on my new TV, I'm completely satisfied with the sound although id like to get a surround system when I live in a house.

Overall, I am really happy with the TV. There are still some kinks to work out in terms of settings for movies/TV but I have never found a spare day to really test a lot of different reference media. Beyond what I've described anyway.

But, I will say, go to the shop and get a demonstration of the TV. Richer Sounds, Currys, your local AV store. Whatever it is, just go and see the TV in person and ask for a demo. Keep in mind that shop conditions won't be the same as home conditions but they may actually be less favourable due to excessive lighting. If the TV looks good in store then it will probably look good at home. Also keep in mind that TVs look much much smaller in the store than they do at home because of the larger space and the fact there are ridiculously sized TVs surrounding it. Remember the dimensions you want, whether it's because of wall size or TV unit size and stick with them. I'm glad I went for 55inch and didn't get a smaller but possibly better or cheaper set and I'm glad I didn't give into temptation and go for a 65 inch. 55inch was perfect for me and my needs.

Also, don't feel awkward about not buying a TV from a store that you ask for a demo in. You need to do it to see if you want it because it's so hard to know just looking at specs on paper. Have a list of questions ready for the sales assistant, questions about specs, performance, life span etc. They will try and sell you a TV but resist. You can always explain beforehand that you are not intending to buy on that day, I did and all the reps I spoke to were still really helpful and luckily none were pushy. Have a list of prices from online stores, maybe you might feel the sales pitch was worth an extra 30 quid and you feel happy buying from that store but realistically nobody is going to expect you to pay an extra £100-200 just because someone showed you a demo of a TV and answered a few questions. Also try and buy from somewhere that offers a 5-10 year warranty/guarantee. I've not had to use mine yet but it does offer that little bit of extra reassurance and helps you feel happy with your purchase.

I found that on Black Friday 2021 that store and online prices were largely similar though and ended up buying in store because i got a lucky with circumstances and the price offered was actually £150 cheaper than other stores and the online prices

@ralphdibny I decided against an OLED because of how often the tv would be in use, about 10 hours a day maybe more. Then there’s the content that would be used like Netflix, Sky/BT Sports on a weekend, my kids would sometimes watch YouTube on it when me and the wife are not in the room. The tv would be facing opposite a window and most of the day would be daytime viewing although if the sun is really shining I tend to close the blinds. Also I just think it would be worn out and suffer burn-in more quickly when I’ll be the only one who cares about looking after the tv and wanting it to last as long as possible. If it was solely for gaming and only myself using it then without question I’d buy the C2.

Price isn’t an issue although I wouldn’t be looking to spend more than £2,000 and I’m after a 65” to upgrade from my current 55” Samsung KS8000 which I’ve been happy with to this day but it’s had backlight issues for the last couple of years with light bleed across the bottom and sides of the screen but it’s not that bad as I don’t even notice it when I’m watching what ever is on the screen. Glad to see your experience with your C1 after a year and that you’ve had no issues but given we’ve probably got different viewing habits and how often we use our tv on a daily basis, I’d say we’d have different experiences with the tv, with mine (if I had a C1 for the same length of time) being more degraded than yours, obviously I don’t know this for a fact but I think there would of been issues like faded pixels and slight image retention at least.

@BAMozzy Good to know about Dolby Vision vs HDR10 with tone mapping, I always thought DV was the best for HDR over HDR10 no matter what because of its variable metadata. I suppose with regards to DV I can’t miss out on what I’ve never had in the first place but it’s going to be the one thing that’s not going to be ticked off when it comes to being completely covered for Series X. At least I’d still have the more important things like VRR, 120Hz and ALLM. Not sure if HGiG matters.

I’ve really liked the One-Connect box with my KS8000 but there’s no way I’m paying an extra £500 for the QN95 to have the convenience of the One-Connect box. I’m happy to to just use 2 HDMI leads, one for the Virgin box and the other for the Series X, I already swap HDMI between Series X and PS5 as the PS5 is being shared between me and my kids so I’m constantly taking it up and downstairs. I now just need to see if it’s worth getting the QN85 and save £200 or go for the QN90 but I’d only go for the QN90 if the benefits are worth it like better blacks, I know it has HDR2000 to QN85’s HDR1500 and that the QN90 has more speakers and an anti-reflective screen.

If I wait for this years tv range then I’d be looking at paying around £2,400 for a 65” whereas the QN90 65” is almost a grand cheaper. Let’s be honest what difference is this years range going to be compared to last years? I can’t see it being anything significant, not enough to justify paying almost a grand more anyway.

@MaccaMUFC ahh fair enough. Netflix has been fine on my end but I can't speak to family viewing habits or any kind of sports/sports news channels. I definitely sympathise with the scenario though as my parents have destroyed their 3D TV that I was hoping to get one day as a hand me down (I have so many 3d blu rays and they don't make the TVs for them any more!) by having BBC news on all day in the week and sky sports news on all day at the weekend. That wasn't an OLED though, it was a Samsung something or other 3D TV.

I will say that for periods of months over the time I've owned it, the TV has been in use for well over ten hours a day on a daily basis (I stopped working for various reasons back in October after a few elongated breaks throughout the year). Before the energy prices really shot up, I would have it on from morning to night. But, it's almost always on the Xbox input though so the Xbox does its thing and flashes up its darkened notifications screensaver which I am sure helps with the TVs longevity.

But yeah, fair enough! Definitely sounds like we have different viewing habits. It is only my partner and I that watch or play games on the TV. I would feel very uncomfortable allowing anyone other than us to have free reign over it for any extended period of time considering what I've seen happen to the two HD TVs my parents have used over the years.

Hell, I'm scared to even install any apps on it or agree to any license agreements on it. I do almost everything through the Xbox (or another console I have hooked up) itself except watching things on the hard drive. I've heard horror stories about intrusive adverts on modern TVs and beyond system updates, I am incredibly apprehensive to agree to any legal mumbo jumbo that I don't understand!

I also have my curtains closed basically all day because I live next to an office block. They do get opened occasionally but it creates a streak of light from a reflection in a window from the office block. I can't say what it looks like if it's entirely illuminated but the contrast between the streak and the rest of the TV is annoying enough for me to just close the curtains. Also the light really makes the dust show up 😅

Anyway, sounds like you have some idea of what you are looking for. So best of luck with it all. I'm sure you will find something you like!

@MaccaMUFC Think about it. HDR10 and DV are HDR formats that can be mastered up to 4000 or even 10000 nits and as NO commercial TV can display that content as it was 'intended' to be viewed because TV's can't get that bright, then you have to rely on Tone Mapping to fit that 'High Dynamic Range' into a 'smaller' container.

HDR10 Metadata would set the 'tone mapping' curve at the start. If the brightest scene is say 2500nits and you have a 800nit TV, then the content would need to either 'scale' 0-2500nits into a 0-800nit container using a 'tone' curve or 'clip' everything over 800nits. That tone curve remains consistent throughout so in a dark scene that only peaks at 500nits, that is still tone mapped down.

Dolby Vision and any other 'dynamic' metadata can change the tone mapping curve with every scene so that scene that's only 500nits can be displayed on an 800nit TV with 'no' tone mapping down. Therefore on the 'same' 800nit TV, DV would 'boost' the impact of HDR in darker scenes as it doesn't need to tone map down so 'aggressively' as it does in Bright scenes. DV is also a 'locked' format meaning that you cannot use it without a licence and every piece of equipment in the chain (player/source, Display etc) needs to be DV enabled. LG DV is the 'best' display tech for DV as it has DV processing built in, Sony's DV implementation requires the Source/Player to 'process' DV - or at least they used to be that way. Being locked also means that in theory, you shouldn't need to 'set-up' your TV for 'best' PQ as the 'locked' DV layer should display as close to intended as that was 'locked' in by the Colourist.

It makes much more sense for OLEDs or 'cheaper' LCD panels to offer DV because they don't have the greatest range and therefore benefit most from Dynamic tone mapping. They are the TV's with the most 'compression' of that range. 2000+ nit TV's may not need ANY tone Mapping so HDR10 content is 'more' accurate to the intent of the master. All post-processed HDR will be HDR10 but not all will also get a DV layer on top so as long as your TV has HLG (live/TV broadcast HDR) and HDR10 support, you won't miss out on ANY HDR content as all the DV content will play in HDR10 on your TV - it just won't be able to access the DV layer.

Of course that's a 'basic' take. Its like taking 4k resolution and supersampling down to 720p, 1080p or even 1440p monitors. The way it 'supersamples' down to fit inside a 'smaller' container without considering other factors - like 'perceived' brightness, perceived PQ etc that also makes a difference. DV is supposedly mastered in 12bit too so may have slight advantages in gradients over HDR10, OLEDs have instantaneous pixel response too so no smearing motion or 'blur' as the pixels instantly change colour. OLEDs are like 720p screens and LCD's are like 1440p screens and if Dolby had a supersampling format to map content down to the 'limited' pixel counts of monitors, it may have some slight advantage over normal/open source supersampling which gives it an edge at the lower end, but it still doesn't look as close to the 'original' as standard on a 1440p TV as less had to be mapped down anyway - and that's the same with HDR. Yes DV will adjust the tone mapping to 'fit' the container on a scene by scene basis, which benefits darker scenes on that 'TV' but if you have a TV that doesn't need to tone map those darker scenes anyway, they will be no different to DV as they both would not be tone mapping - but the Brighter Scenes have 'more' impact because the TV has a bigger Range...

Anyway, CES starts on Thursday with Samsung, Sony, LG etc all likely to unveil their 2023 plans...

@BAMozzy Thanks for all the info on DV. Seems I’m not missing out on it as long as I have a good enough tv that does HDR10 well and I’d say Samsung’s top models do HDR well. I’ve seen videos of people describing DV has a game-changer but I just believed they were exaggerating and overselling it. It does make sense a lot of cheaper TVs using DV as they would most likely need it.

I didn’t realise CES started this Thursday, I’ll see what this years TVs have to offer but the only way I’d stop myself getting a tv in March is if this years range were micro-led and that they were affordable and not set at silly prices but I seriously doubt micro-led will arrive this year, more likely to be a good few years away yet at least. Apparently Sony are breaking tradition by not showing any of their TVs at the event this year.

@MaccaMUFC The issue was that Dolby Vision was used on OLED or LG's LCD TV's which weren't all that bright at their 'peak'. So if you compare HDR10 content where you have static metadata compressing even dark scenes to fit the 'brighter' scenes without too much, if any clipping versus dynamic metadata pushing those dark scenes up to the brightness they should be, its going to be a 'game changer'

However if your TV doesn't start to tone map below 500nits then those Dark scenes would still be displayed as they were meant to be, but then you'd also get a 'bigger' impact when the bright scenes occur.

The downside is more 'tech' related - the downsides of owning super bright LCD's but maybe not 'perfect' blacks and other light bleed issues vs 'bright' but always tone mapping because they are not 'bright enough' OLEDs - each has their strengths/weaknesses and I'd consider DV as a 'bonus' option rather than a necessity with bright HDR TV's but more important for 800nit OLEDs as the 'minimum' mastering standard is upto 1000 nits so could always be tone mapping.

Samsungs new QD-OLED panel looks interesting 55, 65 and 75" models upto 144hz VRR gaming quality and 1300nits peak when calibrated to D65 (2000nits otherwise) so similar to the KS but 'perfect' blacks and instant response times too...

@BAMozzy Yeah Samsung’s S95 looks good, the 65” is £1,799 but it’s still an OLED and there’s still the worry of burn-in, faded pixels etc. Plus it still doesn’t have DV unlike every other OLED. What is Samsung’s issue with DV? They’ve included Dolby Atmos in the 2022 range so why not include DV?

It seems all the S95 has over other OLEDs is that it’s brighter but that could change once LG reveal their OLED 2023 range. I’ll look forward to CES on Thursday but I’m not expecting anything to stop me going ahead and buying the QN90.

@MaccaMUFC The QD-OLEDs are 'different from the LG OLED panels. They don't have a white sub-pixel for example to 'boost' the brightness whilst desaturating the colour. QD OLEDs are essentially just 'blue' OLEDs that pass through a QD layer changing the colour to green or red as required. That gives you the same per pixel control as OLEDs but without some of the drawbacks.

The new QD-OLEDs from Samsung look to be as bright as your existing KS8000 with the precision of OLEDs, Perfect Blacks etc, Also will have Game Pass app built in, all the 'gaming' features you could want/need - except DV of course.

It will be interesting to see what LG do too - although if they follow tradition, they will still be using WRGB panels so the White sub-pixel that 'boosts' brightness also desaturates colours too...

If I had to guess why Samsung don't feel they need DV, its because its 'too expensive' to License and it's not as if they can't offer 'Open Source' HDR10+ Dynamic Metadata formats and/or even use 'software' to add 'auto-HDR' and/or Dynamic HDR (assesses the 'range' and adjusts tone-mapping automatically) - all without needing to pay Dolby and having 'NO' control over it because its 'locked'. I don't expect audio licensing to be as expensive but again, Dolby isn't the 'ONLY' option with Audio but was popular in the Movie industry. Its a bit like LG deciding they don't 'need' HDR10+ support because their own 'software' can automatically adjust the tone-mapping to give 'similar' results.

DV is a bit like nVidia's DLSS in that its 'locked' to just 'nVidia' GPU's but everyone can use FSR2.0. If you also needed to buy 'nVidia' licensed monitors to actually use DLSS, its a bit more like DV. Its 'locked' so Dolby make money on every 'link' in the chain - from those licensed to master in DV, from the 'sources' licensed to sell, stream or play DV content, from the licensed Displays that must also be DV enabled - every part of the chain! If any part is 'broken', for example your Bluray player can't access the DV layer, then you don't get DV.

When you also have the brightest TV's on the market so less tone mapping, backing open source HDR formats inc HDR10+ and can use 'software' to auto-HDR and/or dynamically adjust the tone curve maybe makes more sense than 'paying' Dolby to have their 'locked' format on their TV's. Maybe 'prefer' a consistent tone mapping algorithm so Dark scenes are relatively dark compared to bright scenes because the static metadata keeps that 'consistent' and if they build a TV that doesn't 'need' to Tone Map, then you don't 'need' Dynamic Metadata anyway - every scene would be within the range of the TV so won't need to 'dynamically' scale that down to fit the TV...

@BAMozzy The S95 is still an OLED at the end of the day and is still prone to the same issues as every other OLED.

Did you manage to watch/read what was unveiled at CES in regards to TVs? Samsung are bringing out a MicroLED tv this year that will come in 76-inch, 63-inch and 50-inch sizes. It will also have 240Hz VRR, 2-nanosecond response time and 20-bit black detail but I expect even the 63” will be well out of my price range, if I had to guess I’d say it would be no less than £6,000, it’ll most likely be more than that.

@MaccaMUFC I know that its still an OLED but the design is quite different but its still 'new' technology to understand exactly how it will 'decay' over time versus a WRGB OLED panel. I do think the the technology may well overcome some of the issues - or at least improve the long term consistency.

Whether its for 'you' or not is a different matter - same as the 'new' LG OLED Panel TV's or whether you are better off waiting to see if the new Samsung LCD's will be a better option for you and your budget and peace of mind.

Personally, I'd love a MicroLED TV with every Sub-pixel a R, G or B microLED but whether we will see an affordable option at a reasonable size (55-65"), time will tell. The next week should let us know what 2023 will offer across the manufacturers but even then, its still going to be 'months' before they arrive and longer before they 'drop' in pricing. It may not be 'worth' waiting for but at least you'll have an idea of whether to stick a bit longer with what you have or buy a 2022 TV at a 'discounted' price to get more up to date features.

I still think the LG OLEDs are the 'best' all round TV's on the market right now. Best for gaming and general TV viewing even if 'brighter' HDR scenes lack as much impact in side by sides. Again, there maybe long term issues associated with OLEDs, but is still the 'best' in the short term. Its whether you sacrifice PQ for a longer lasting (in theory) TV.

I'm in a similar position to you. Bought a KS8000 as it was the 'best' value and highest performing HDR 4k TV for 2016 and the OLEDs of that era would never have lasted this long - not with the amount of use my TV gets (on a minimum of 12hrs a day, every day), a LOT of SkySports too so I haven't yet been convinced to drop over £1k on an OLED despite me knowing that the LG C2 is probably the 'best' TV on the market right now in terms of Price, Quality and Value and why I am 'reluctant' to consider any 'OLED' tech myself too - inc QD-OLEDs. That being said, I could 'find' a way to justify it if I really wanted but with my KS8000 still adequately performing, I haven't been 'pressured' to upgrade and so kept waiting to see if the next years models would be the 'year' to upgrade.

If the 63" microLED is ~£6k, it would probably drop £1500 by Black Friday - maybe more if they don't sell well at that price. Depending on the specs, the quality of the build etc, I could be tempted - especially with a 10yr guarantee against certain issues. £6k over 10yrs is £600 or less than £2 a day for over 12hrs of use which would be how I would 'justify' it and whilst it might be a big initial outlay, I wouldn't expect to buy another TV for many years. When I do replace my TV, I have certainly had my moneys worth. Well over 20k hours now on my KS8000 for £1800 - that's 'pence' per hour of enjoyment....

@BAMozzy We have definitely had our money’s worth with the KS8000 given how long we’ve had it and how much we’ve used it on a daily basis. But I’ve had light leaking across the bottom and edges of the screen for a while now but it’s nothing major, not bad enough to affect my viewing.

Now that I know microLED TVs are now going to be in sensible sizes and that it’s releasing this year, I’m thinking of the LG C2 for now to have the very best tv on the market right now and then replace it with a microLED in a few years time when hopefully they are at a more affordable price, I’m hoping under £3,000. Even if £2,000 got knocked off the £6,000 price, £4,000 is still too much to pay for a tv for me. I have other things to pay that makes me think against paying that kind of money like kids, bills, mortgage, fuel etc. I know I’ve been dead set against OLED since creating this topic but that’s because I wanted a tv that would last at least pass 5 years and now that I know microLED is on the scene, I’d be happy to get about 3 years out of the C2 until I can get a microLED.

@MaccaMUFC My 10 cents as someone who's had both an LG OLED and a Samsung LED. There is no perfect TV. But all the TV's listed are good for gaming, especially Hisense and the QN90B. i.e. HDMI 2.1 on at least 2 ports, VRR, 120Hz etc.

Personally I did have burn in on an OLED from just gaming (I don't watch much TV) on an LG B7... or was it C7... I honestly can't remember, but apparently the protective tech is much better now. But then again they said that burn in didn't happen back then... and it did. Once bitten, twice shy.

So I bought a Samsung Q90R about 2+ years ago to replace it, the precursor to the two models you mentioned. It's been fantastic. Here's a few things I love about it over my old OLED.

• The blacks are virtually at OLED levels. Honestly there's little difference in gameplay. Samsung has done remarkably well here.
• Brighter than any OLED - My front room is south facing dual aspect, so very bright! The OLED was a bit dim by comparison.
• Reflections are very low (again great for bright room), I noticed it on the OLED sometimes.
• Response time is very very fast for an LCD
• Better performance on 30fps content. OLED's faster response time amplifies the 30fps and actually makes it appear worse. I almost 'couldn't' play 30fps on OLED but it's fine, once i've got used to it again, on LED.
• Love the one box. One cable from my TV and then everything else plugged into the box. Neat, easier to access.

Here's a few things I preferred about the OLED

• Response times were better, 60/120fps content looks even smoother.
• Better gradients. Q90 has occasional banding of gradients when Game mode is on. E.g. Xbox grey gradient background. Honestly it's rare this is noticeable as games don't tend to have one colour with a slight gradient, I mostly notice it when the Xbox is on screensaver. Grey background with a subtle gradient.
• OLED means you don't need local dimming. On the whole local dimming is great great on Q90 (see note about deep blacks) but occasionally when the whole screen is dark apart from a small bright thing you can get some noticeable bloom/haloing around the bright object. The only time this is REALLY noticeable is during credits. Black screen with scrolling names each haloed is an eyesore. It's not great, but I never really notice it in game/tv. As I said no tv is perfect...

My only other problems I've experiecned are related to the specific older model I have specifically that it doesn't have an official HDMI 2.1 port, though it runs Xbox and PS5 HDMI 2.1 features fine e.g. VRR + 120fps + HDR. I just occasionally I need to return to the dashboard as I get desaturated screen or some other quirk. It's random and a very occasional minor nuisance. In hindsight I should have waited another year as the 2020 models weren't officially HDMI 2.1 - it's got all the features just not the certification it's an HDMI 2.0+ port with more bandwidth - but my hand was forced through burn-in on old tv.

TLDR: All in all i'm actually happier with my Samsung LED than I was with my LG OLED contrary to what most advice says. But both had pros and cons and both were great tv's (until the burn-in anyway)

I have noticed that I have a bit more light bleed too, but like you, its not noticeably impacting on my viewing. Its only occasionally I notice when watching a movie but watching full screen content isn't really noticeable to me.

I don't know that I'd pay £4k for a 63" TV - even if it is MicroLED. I'd want to have at least a 10yr guarantee at that price. £4k for 10yrs vs £1.5k for 2-3yrs isn't too much difference in 'cost' per year but it would allow the MicroLED technology to mature and we'd have more 'years' of data to see how 'durable' they are.

Until I see what ALL companies have in store for 2023, I cannot really say whether I would go for a C2 for a couple of years and 'wait' for MicroLEDs to drop. I'd still be considering whether or not 2023's TV's offer a 'better' alternative so that if I had to wait 4 or 5yrs, even another 6yrs+ (like I have with my KS8000), then my TV would last. I don't want to be left having to buy a TV because my current TV has 'worn out'. If QD-OLEDs have a 'better' lifespan due to a different design, I'd be tempted by the Samsung. I expect my 'main' TV to become my '2nd' TV so I would want it to last more than 2-3 years. My KS8000 is 'likely' to replace my 1080p 48" Bedroom TV when I do upgrade...

Its a difficult decision because none of us can predict the future. Technology may well not get much cheaper as Supply/demand and global issues affect these - as we have seen in recent years. You could be waiting forever for MicroLEDs to drop in cost to a point you'll willing to pay because if they do drop to say £3k, the other technology could be less than £1k so you'd still be faced with deciding to spend say £800 on a OLED for a 'few years' to wait for MicroLED to drop to £2k, then when its £2k, OLEDs maybe £500 and then its the same question of paying £500 to wait until MicroLEDs drop below £1500 because you don't think they are worth 3x+ the cost...

My Kids are older now so earn their own money and have their own places so I am not 'responsible' for their upkeep any more. Don't have to go on Holidays or pay for school clothes, trips etc. I have money saved up for 'emergencies' or the proverbial Rainy day so I could 'buy' any TV and spend the next few years (maybe longer as the amount of 'free' cash I can put away each month is reducing as costs rise) building those savings back up - but because I 'save', its not going to impact on my ability to pay bills, etc. The money I save each 'month' is what gets 'left' after all the bills and other expenditure has gone out so anything I buy is paid for, no credit, so it doesn't 'impact' on my bills. Of course, I don't want to spend all my savings and then have some emergency expenditure that impacts my ability to pay bills or buy food, but as long as I have at least a few months of pay in Savings after buying anything, I 'could' buy any TV without putting me in a difficult financial position. £4k for 10yrs minimum is not that different from £1200 for 3yrs - still essentially £400 a year in my head - but its a 'bigger' chunk of savings...

Finally found a TV with all the bells and whistles to allow Xbox series X to shine at a price point I was "happy" to go along.
I went with the Sony Bravia XR55X90KAEP which is specifically made by Sony for PS5. it does not have the best image quality but it is a decent upgrade from what I have right now.

My LG CX will be 3 years old this summer! Still looks amazing and from what I've heard not much has changed with the newer models. So glad I went for OLED.

Three and a half years later and I’m still on the hunt for a new tv. It’s ridiculous but it’s been one thing after another whether the car needed repaired, something expensive in the house needed replacing or the wife deciding to book a last minute holiday. When those things were happening, I needed that money before the top tier TVs were discontinued and all remaining stock sold out.

This time I’m better off financially so even if something came up I should still get a new tv no matter what. I’m still on a budget because I’m not paying over £1,500 for a tv when there’s plenty that are good enough in that price range. I’m still looking for 65” and it has to be mini led.

I’ve been set on getting the Samsung QN90C for awhile but only just learnt that 65” and above has an ADS panel which is akin to the IPS panel. Now I’m no tech wizard when it comes to TVs but even I know that IPS/ADS panels are not great for deep blacks and contrast which is why I’ll only go for a tv which has an AV panel.

With that being said I’ve been looking at TCL and Hisense. I wouldn’t normally go for those kind of brands that are on the lower quality side and target a more budget-friendly audience but I saw this TCL C935 model >> https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/5f502c1c and I thought the specs were looked excellent, on paper it looks like it is much better than the QN90C which is usually touted as one of the best mini led TVs on the market.

I liked the look of the Hisense U8H but it doesn’t seem as good the the TCL C935 and it is a bit thicker than the TCL, this matters because the TV will be wall mounted and I don’t want it sticking out. My current Samsung KS8000 is thin so anything that is significantly thicker is a no-no.

I’d love to get the Sony Bravia X95L but at £2,399 it is well out of my budget and even if it was in a sale before being discontinued I doubt it would go as low as £1,500. Basically I’ve rambled on just to ask people’s opinion on the TCL C935?