What Does A $1049 Steam Machine Mean For Xbox's Project Helix?

It means a massive opportunity to undercut the steam machine with tonnes more performance

According to Digital Foundry, Steam Machine is a mini PC that compares to PS5 in terms of graphical capabilities. Helix is the next-gen Xbox that plays Xbox and PC games. We don't know its power and price nor how the components prices will vary, but Microsoft can get better deals and has excellent hardware engineers, so it would be better value and a proper console with optimised and customised hardware. The price will be premium but considered good value for next-gen gaming. I also think that the cross-gen period will be long as this one that lasted 5 years.

I dont think a delay is feasible. Its not a matter of just pushing it back a year or two and suddenly its a $500 product again. 5+ years from now, it will probably still be in the $1000 ballpark.

Honestly, I never believed in the success of the Steam Machine for plenty of reasons (The fact that it’s arriving at the end of the console generation is a big issue, limited power, game compatibility issues, unclear target audience, a poorly designed controller, etc.), and I already expected it to flop just like it did 10 years ago.

But unfortunately for them, with prices like these, they’re only digging the hole deeper. At this point, it’s obvious it’s going to flop hard. I don’t know if we can blame everything on RAM prices. The controller costs $90 — what’s the explanation for that? There’s no RAM in a controller…

And I’d even say that for the few people who actually buy it, it’s a big risk , they might end up with a machine that stops being supported in a few months, or maybe a year or two, simply because the budget won’t be there.

To answer the question, this is actually an opportunity for Xbox Helix, which on paper is already capable of doing far more than a Steam Machine — it can run all PC games and Xbox games, while the Steam Machine ironically can’t even run all Steam titles, nor all games from the Xbox console catalog.

@BacklogBrad I agree and I also think that a delay does nothing, as it's not like in the past when timing was everything and you needed your console to be a big seller from the start to introduce the new and exclusive software in the market.

We know that they are taking a bath on the current consoles so I'd expect next gen to be at least the same price if not more expensive. It all depends on what Xbox is allowed to do regarding subsidizing Helix....if it's sold at cost it's likely a bit more expensive.

All this means is I'm running my series x for as long as humanly possible. The 2TB steam machine is $2K in Canada pre tax....you can just piss right off.

SM was DOA. There’s a huge opportunity here for Microsoft to take over. Valve profits from every SM sold, while MS and Sony take a loss on each console. So even if Helix ends up more expensive, I’d bet it becomes the gaming PC we’ve been waiting for

Steam machine has 2 disadvantages price wise to Helix. 1st, they can't get contracts for RAM and merely have to buy stock on a month to month basis and secondly, Valve can't/won't subsidise hardware in anyway.

Memory will still be expensive gor Microsoft but you'd expect that they can get contracts for it and will be buying chips in far higher quantities.

I'd expect it to be perhaps inbetween the 2 Steam Machine prices but as a price per performance prospect, it'll blow it away. What will be interesting is what PC functionality it has

I know this is not going to be popular, but people are absolutely dreaming if they think Helix will cost less or the same as a stream machine. Helix has way more silicon/power than a stream machine so it will cost a lot more. Plus Microsoft can't subsidise it like a true console, it's a PC. People would otherwise just buy it and use it for non gaming work. Sharma already said hardware prices doubled from Nov-Feb, then another double since she started on Feb. The last time Xbox increased hardware prices was Oct of last year & prices have gone up 4x (two doubles!). People are also absolutely dreaming if they think there is not going to be another big current gen hardware price increase.

Honestly, it depends on when it launches. If it launches 2027 it will cost more. If it launches later, there is a chance the market stabilizes by 2028.

I predict Helix will be significantly more expensive than the Steam box if they are targetting this premium device which keeps being touted. MS will have better buying power than valve but I also don't think they will be willing to go all in on a massive order for a device which is going to be niche. Their market share has eroded with each successive generation and its likely to continue with the Helix, which will affect any contracts for components.

Unless they make significant cut backs to the rumoured device then I can see this thing being another £200 over the steam box, likely more.

It has to cost less or at least have a series s type version that does.
They are looking at ways to bring the price down that's been confirmed so I'd expect it cheaper than this valve console!
This machine is a rip off at this price the series x is more powerful aswell!

It means that, for what it is, its struggling to be as powerful as the base ps5/xsx at DOUBLE the price. You want a controller? Pay $80 more.

People "claimed" it would be a helix killer and shake up the console market but looks more like a super niche, overpriced piece of tech that'll be a wet fart rather than the monster it was supposed to be.

It was an intriguing proposition at a cheap price but for THIS price? No thanks, I'll get the 25th anniversary xbox and wait for the helix after.

There's no way on this earth Helix will cost less unless Microsoft are willing to take a huge loss and in the current climate that is very unlikely.

On top of that a £1000+ "game console" will have zero mass market appeal. Not now, not ever.

@Fiendish-Beaver

if people expect to pay £600 for Helix, then they are not getting a PC with stellar performance.

Try building a PC for yourself to decent specs, and you will see that it is not a cheap thing to do, and even if Microsoft could source every component at 50%, you would still be paying a significant sum for it.

Exactly. Its totally unrealistic to expect the equivalent of a high-end PC at a third of the price. In fact, such a train of thought has no place in reality whatsoever.

Gaming has always been a luxury pastime, but now it's moving into a territory where only the reasonably wealthy will be able to comfortably afford it.

Welp I guess I took too long to upgrade my gaming PC. I think it is time to focus on my 401k. I’m out.

@BoredOfEverything

I want a pure console experience

The only place you're going to find that now is with PlayStation or Nintendo.

It means I'm not getting one if it costs the same or even more. I'm not spending that kind of money on a console or whatever you want to call it. This is getting ridicoulus.

Has access to Steam and Epic for Helix been officially confirmed as yet? Microsoft's statement that it will play "PC games" could refer simply to Windows store.

Reason I ask is a £1000+ PC/console hybrid without access to those store fronts is not a platform worth investing in. It's the equivalent of a Ferrari kit car. Looks like a Ferrari, even sounds like one, but lift up the hood and it's a Ford Focus.

@BoredOfEverything

I can understand your frustration, certainly given the investment. Unfortunately loyalty is just a word to these companies, it has no real meaning or value to them. Never has.

Isn't the Magnus chip going to be used for more than just the XBOX? That alone could help keep prices down.

@shiny-enzo "[Project Helix] can run all PC games and Xbox games, while the Steam Machine ironically can’t even run all Steam titles" <-- This is what holds me back from the Steam Machine. I can get behind the pricing due to rising hardware costs, but the hardware should be up to par. I couldn't imagine buying a new console at that price and not being able to play the current generation of games.

So googled it's and £1208 is $1,595.83 ripping of c***s or what 😭

@BoredOfEverything

I don't believe Helix has any chance of surviving past the first 18 months. However, holding their cards close to their chest is going to most definitely shoot them in the foot - even if I'm wrong.

Microsoft need to start putting out more information as soon as possible that counters the high price talk, which itself has made its way into mainstream media outside of the gaming press.
In a game of poker you have to play your hand at some point.

I think short of Steam failing to sell any of them, this will let Xbox charge what they like for Helix. Before they was scared of breaching that 1000 mark and being seen as crazy. Now they can show the Steam Machine specs next to Helix's and go "look Helix is X times more powerful and not even 2x more expensive and it comes with a controller"

If I was MS I would make sure the Helix is packed with as much digital extras as possible. They cost the company nothing and makes the price seem more justified.

@Fiendish-Beaver

Each to their own, but I have to wonder why did you invest in a decent PC then not use it?
Sorry to use a car analogy again, but that's the equivalent of buying a Bugatti then leaving it in the garage covered by a sheet while you spend your days driving around in a Fiat Punto.

@BoredOfEverything

Indeed.

I think PS6 will be around the £700-800 mark, but it will offer a pure console experience - of that I'm sure.
As a PC gamer I've no interest in PlayStation, but if i were after a full-time console experience next generation then PlayStation would be my first choice as Helix will unquestionably be an inferior version of something I already have.

Nintendo? Well my Switch is currently boxed away on a shelf and has been for about a year. Only bought it to play Breath of the Wild, which I've now done.

It’s not really a question of price in the end, but of performance‑to‑price ratio. If Project Helix costs less than an equivalent PC, that’s what really matters. That said, it still shouldn’t cross a certain psychological threshold, no matter how powerful it is.

However, from what I understand, Xbox has already said they want to offer affordable solutions, and several manufacturers will be able to release cheaper versions

Valve officially jumped the shark in hardware. Sure they got an ocean of money from Steam, but this is insanity. This PC isn't even better than a Series X... No practical person will buy this, Frame and Deck. It'll be only people who buy it as a fashion statement who have no concept of money management and just like burning through dollars. RIP Valve Hardware Department

@shiny-enzo

Helix - it can run all PC games and Xbox games

There has been no official confirmation of Steam and Epic on Helix so until otherwise this isn't true. (After my above question I did a bit of digging. Nothing)

Also even if Steam and Epic come to Helix you still won't have ALL PC games as GoG will not be available to Helix due to the non-DRM nature of the platform. Microsoft want complete control of the content on their platforms. GoG removes this control and hands it over to the end user entirely, this is why very few AAA titles find their way onto GoG as publishers don't want users to have complete control over the products they buy.

@fatpunkslim

If Project Helix costs less than an equivalent PC, that’s what really matters

And what's your idea of an equivalent PC? You're not going to get £2000-3000 of gaming PC for a fraction of the price. It's a totally unrealistic expectation.

The only way Microsoft could achieve such a feat is with massive losses and that's obviously not going to happen.

£1000/$1200 is my guess.

We have already been told that it is premium. The big question will be if Xbox can subsidise the cost any. If not it may be even more expensive.

We all know the steam box isn’t subsidised

Wait, do Xbox gamers really think they're going to get the equivalent of, say, a GeForce RTX 5090 combo'd with a Ryzen 9 9950X3D and all for a grand?

Really? 😂😂😂

@NishimaruX It'll be a better value than this pile of crap Steam Machine. This thing is a Series X at best (possibly even lower), which came out in 2020 for more than twice the launch price... Absolutely pathetic

@Trmn8r

More capable likely, but more value? I doubt it. Helix will be a damn sight more expensive and as such Steam Machine will very likely outsell Helix which is a huge problem for Microsoft.

@Trmn8r

I'm not interested in Steam Machine. I am, however, interested in realistic expectations. Neither Steam Machine or Helix will offer mass market appeal.

@NishimaruX It's all ifs and buts though in fairness nobody can say today this steam machine will sell more than anything also why would it sell well at all would be my argument when is only just as powerful as a ps5 and series X for over a grand I don't see them flying off the shelves!
It's simply not powerful enough to do anything new and is amazingly overpriced.
Seems theres more hope from you the steam machine does well and the helix fails.
This steam machine is going to be a very niche product simply because it's underpowered and overpriced with whats coming next gen.

@Skinny-Pete

Seems theres more hope from you the steam machine does well and the helix fails

No that's just your take. I don't care about Steam Machine's success or failure, it doesn't offer me anything. However, I think Steam Machine will has the potential to outsell Helix, particularly if Helix arrives with no access to the Steam library and only the Windows Store.

Yes Steam Machine is niche, but so will Helix be.

@NishimaruX saying Helix will cost more than Steam Machine and also not be a better value has no place in the realm of realistic. Of course Helix will cost more than Series X at launch. I'd put a lot of money down that it'll still be a 3 digit console. I'm predicting somewhere in the $700-800 range. No chance its over $1000 like this turdsteambox and the Series X is already as good as it.

@Trmn8r

I'm predicting somewhere in the $700-800 range

A PC/console hybrid capable of running the very latest, next generation games at optimum levels at the equivalent of a £3000 gaming PC - for under £1000? Not a chance in Hell.

And you're forgetting that Microsoft said themselves that Helix will come in at a premium price. £800 isn't a premium price.

You best get saving, son.

Jez must be out his mind if he thinks prices will come down when the market becomes more stable!

@NishimaruX Not necessarily Xbox is still massive in gaming nobody knows how next gen will go I doubt Sony are just going to steam roll everything again it's very possible helix sells more units than the the series s/x generation it's far from a a forgone conclusion.
And I'd bet my house on it doing better than this overpriced rubbish to be honest!

@Fiendish-Beaver Yeah especially when you consider than the Steambox is comparable in performance with the PS5 / SX and its still far more. I honestly do not understand why people think the device is going to be earth shatteringly powerful, but still be in the comfortable range of a £600 console.

If the Helix is as powerful as they suggest and lands at £1500 then it will be better value for money than the Steam Box, but that doesn't means it will sell in large volumes. It's going to be a device for the enthusiasts, which is fine, but people need to be real and accept they are not the majority.

@Fiendish-Beaver

Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

I've always predominantly gamed on computers rather than console. From the Speccy, to Amiga, to PC. I do own a few consoles, (mostly boxed away, granted), but I'm a tech tinkerer and as such the walled garden of consoles simply doesn't offer me anything. Consoles are just way to limited. For example I've been playing classic games with high definition/performance improvement for years, without charge, that console gamers are still asking for - and even then the chances are slim.
Also, where else can I play Brutal Doom and other great mods? Not on console, that's for sure.

I see appeal the of consoles, but it's not for me long term. In fact, I don't see them as much more than toys. Unfortunately they're fast becoming very expensive toys that will alienate the mass market if it continues.

@Skinny-Pete

A game console pushing £1000 and beyond will not have mass market appeal. I find it quite bizarre that Xbox gamers can't seem to grasp this.

I don't game on PlayStation and have no interest in the platform, but I've absolutely no doubt that the PS6 will absolutely steam roll over Helix. Why? Because it'll be a pure console experience that won't cost the average consumer a £1000 upwards.

It hopefully means they’ll do the sensible thing and hold off until 2030 to release it. Nobody needs a new console right now. The market isn’t ready for Xbox 5 or PS6. We’re nowhere near the performance ceiling of the current gen.

@NishimaruX They also said they wanted to keep it affordable but ignore that part. Lol £3000 exaggerate much? You don't need anywhere close to that to play all the top of the line games. But then you argue Steam Machine is a threat using £400 hardware? Pick a lane bud. You just making it up as you go aren't you?

@Titntin

You'll miss nothing by keeping your current machine for at least the next 4 years while this all plays

Absolutely. Everyone is so intent on stumbling into the next generation, which will be very expensive, that they haven't given a moments thought to the box currently sat under the tele, one that I've no doubt has given them and can continue to give them gaming goodness.

@RadioHedgeFund lol 2030?!?! A bit extreme.

@Skinny-Pete Whilst you are correct that no one actually knows how the next generation will pan out, because non of us have crystal balls. We can however look at the past 20 years and make an educated guess based on the trends and what each device is currently suggesting they will offer.

360 - 84m / One - 58m / Series - 33-35m estimate
PS3 - 87m / PS4 -117m / PS5 - 90m

Every generation of Xbox has seen then lose about 30% of their user base and even MS have previously said they lost the generation that mattered when people built up their digital libraries. I suspect PS5 will hit 100m lifetime and Series may hit 40m as both will get a boost from GTA, however I suspect the lions share from that will be PS.

Helix will easily outsell the Steam Box but that was always likely imo, however I don't think the overall trajectory between Xbox and PS will change much at all into the next generation. PS will be looking at 90m+ lifetime while MS will be happy with 20-30m.

@NishimaruX What do you actually game on then?
Also all console ls will be near enough to a grand next gen what makes you think the playstation won't be just as expensive they haven't even mentioned anything about trying to keep the price for next gen down just monitizing there current user base theres a lot of assumptions in your logic not many things that are aren't factual just feelings.
Also why is a pure console experience superior to a console and pc experience???

@ilyn Yeah I'd totally agree with that I'd say if they can beat how series s/x generation in sales that would be successful for Microsoft

@Skinny-Pete

PC, mate. A very good PC that will breeze into the next generation.

However, I do have a pre-owned Series X I bought specifically for GTA 6 this year once the news dropped that said game isn't seeing a PC launch any time soon. It's not all rosey being a PC gamer!

As for your last question I've always believed a console's strongest feature, other than affordability for the average consumer, is that they do offer a unique experience - or at least did up until the 7th generation. It's why I still own a 360, although yes currently boxed away.
Now, though, game consoles are shifting ever closer to PCs, albeit low-end PCs with none of the benefits, so I see little point in them. I most certainly don't have any brand loyalty to any of the console manufacturers. They're something I'm happy to dabble in if there's good reason - like GTA 6 and Breath of the Wild.

Game consoles need to revert back to offering that unique experience that made them so popular. Affordable systems for all with great games and great exclusives. Helix won't be this, certainly not next to PlayStation and Nintendo's offerings. It'll be niche. Too expensive for the mass market and pointless for PC gamers like myself. A jack of all trades, master of none. This is why I think it will flop.

@Banjo-
The cross generation 5 year period is Sonys and XBOXs second big issue to price.
With less gains each generation and potential high prices it may only be us keen gamers buying into next generation, which will definitely make for very slow sales.

@AI-Generation Right but at the same time software sales are not interrupted. I expect at least a five-year cross period like the last one.

@Banjo-

While I agree this will be the case wasn't it this cross generation games development that annoyed console gamers? Up until recently almost a day didn't pass by without complaints about a new game being developed across the previous and current generation at the cost of quality.

@Banjo-
Correct software sales will not affected.
But genuine top next generation experiences maybe.

Look at series x, it’s not until Halo remade and gears e day are we really seeing XBOX studios give us the top potential of the console, 5 years in.
Similar can be said for Sony studios and PS5.
It’s been a weird and hard generation this current one.

@AI-Generation

But genuine top next generation experiences maybe

As before they absolutely will be affected.

Steam machine is a seriously pricey little box with a massive identity crisis.

XH just needs to undercut it.

Fascinating discussion in the comments. I'll never understand why people who don't care for Xbox and have no interest in consoles have to chime in, though.

@Shy_Hallaman

I imagine this aimed at me. Fair enough. 😂

I am interested in Xbox games, though, and the future of Xbox games, of which I have many on my PC some of which are, much to my delight, Play Anywhere - which is a boon given that, as I said above, I picked up a pre-owned Series X for GTA 6. In fact Play Anywhere is why I opted for X rather PS5 when making this decision. Made sense, don't you think?

I hope this eases some of your concerns because, and given the cross nature of Xbox games on console and PC, I have equally as much right to "chime in" as you do .

@Titntin this is literally my thoughts completely. It will be a very easy decision for me with Helix. I could see Asha taking away other storefronts now and then it’s no-go for me. If it does have Steam then I think they’ll capture me.

If they stay the course and make a PC hybrid? It’ll cost a lot more.

I’m a broken record on this but I don’t think Helix is a PC hybrid anymore.

• Asha has said they’re rethinking Helix plans
• Xbox is focused on a exclusive ecosystem
• They’re hyper-fixated on being profitable, and a PC hybrid would kill that by letting users to buy from other (much cheaper than Xbox) storefronts
• They’re talking a lot about affordability again (including new statements today). Helix as a PC would be too expensive to sell much, which would also tank their renewed focus on consoles.

I think all the signs are pointing to Helix not being a PC hybrid anymore, or at least a much more closed one (cutting out Steam, Epic, even emulation).

Predicting power and price of the Helix is nye impossible. I imagine they would like to get to around the performance of an RTX 5070. I could see that running them in the $1500+ territory though. I saw people online suggesting it would give the rtx 5080 a run for it's money which would be impressive but to me would mean the price of the full console itself would reach the 2,000 dollar range unless AMD is running miracles over there.

@NishimaruX Fair enough points I can see now where you are kinda coming from not that I necessarily agree with you but it's more clear.
Maybe I'm hopeful but I can't see the helix doing better than this gen of Xbox no doubt especially if there will be multiple versions of the console like what is being made out.
Time will tell.

@RareXbK Some people can be positive about Xbox without being bots or In lala land especially on an Xbox fan site in fairness.
Also we don't know what any of the next gen consoles will be like price points features games improvements anything other then they are happening nothing is set on stone if Xbox can go from great to crap in your mind what's there not to say they can be great again??

I hope Microsoft is paying close attention to the shock and backlash Steam is receiving over these prices. I have already said multiple times that if Helix costs substantially more than the Playstation 6 ($300 or more), I'm getting a Playstation.

@Skinny-Pete

Thank you.

Now in my mid 50s I tend to err on the side of caution in life in general. I would like to see Helix succeed, more importantly see Xbox regain some some of its clout - Sony PlayStation need an aggressive competitor.
Microsoft can't be complacent, they have to pull a rabbit out of the hat and wow the audience with a platform that's uniquely interesting, affordable and that appeals to a wider audience outside of the Xbox faithful. Simply turning up to the main event with an expensive system that doesn't do anything particularly new won't be enough.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure what I've put forward will be the case. Happy to be proven wrong, though.

@Fiendish-Beaver

Regardless of the outcome of Helix I think GP will continue on. There's huge potential for a GP app on every media device as a gateway for Microsoft's own software as well as other publishers. Some TVs already have the GP app as an option.

I mean I just skimmed but I'm pretty sure it's already been said repeatedly.

$1050 gets you a steam machine that is weaker than a Series X.
How could MS possibly release Helix cheaper? Release a console weaker than the one you released 6-8 years prior? Math doesn't math, this thing is going to be very expensive unless the component shortages (and make no mistake, there are multiple, not just RAM) are miraculously resolved.

@RareXbK "Asha, she has background in AI and just recently hired some more of her ai bros"
Really! That's a coincidence.
Sony dropped PC from its Sec filings, with the PC strategy removed Sony has introduced a brand-new section outlining its extensive AI aspirations:Game Development: Sony is using AI-powered tools (like its internal "Mockingbird" tool) to automate tedious, technical groundwork—such as turning performance capture data into facial animations in a fraction of a second.Store & Backend: Sony is leaning on AI to personalize game recommendations on the PlayStation Store and route transactions more efficiently.Visual Fidelity: The company is investing in machine learning and AI to boost visual fidelity and enhance the overarching PlayStation experience.

Not sure why some people think Sony gaming is not completely involved in AI.

MS wont subsidize Helix because its a PC and multiple storefronts and apps will be available. Same logic as steam machine.
Now if steam machine costs 1k for current-gen performance, there is no way Helix will cost the same. It will be significantly pricier - I now adjust my estimates up to 1500 USD for a base model of Helix.

P.S. That's of course if we are talking Windows PC device loading into xbox mode, not an xbox series X successor running designated xbox OS.

@Fiendish-Beaver what i know for a fact that I am not buying anything that works similarly as xbox rog ally x. Unless Helix fully solves all the windows issues or fully loads into xbox OS (not xbox pc app that it uses currently), I am not interested.

After seeing steam machine prices, I think its fair to say that Helix could be around 1400-1500+ for a base model given the massive gap in specs and that MS most likely wont subsidize it.

I still believe they can do better by simply releasing xbox series X successor.

For now I am looking more on the PS6 but honestly PS5 PRO works just fine

I kinda agree with both - technically it would be better to delay next gen up till 2030+. PS5/PRO/xbox S/X has still a lot to offer and cross-gen with ps4/xone ended only 1-2 years ago. So now its a prime time for these machines.

That said, Jez is also right because both PS6/Helix were already in the early production/costing stage when RAMageddon started. So delaying now probably does not make sense financially.

I think the concept of generation will dissapear as seemingly "next-gen" will be treated like a PRO version of current gen. We saw it already for solid 3-4 years after ps5/X/S launch. Now with next gen costing up to 1k for PS6 and 1.3-1.5k for Helix, it will only tailor to whales that Jez mentioned. The adoption of next gen will be way slower to the point of maybe current gen will still be supported for another 7 years after launching next gen which never happened before.

It simply becomes too expensive to launch next gen and with rising costs of games platforms need big audiences to buy it meaning all most devs will focus on S2/PS5/XBox S/X and avg PC specs for their games rather than PS6/Helix.

@Millionski

multiple storefronts and apps will be available

Again, though, that has not been confirmed for Helix. Only Xbox games and "PC games" which could just mean Windows Store.
Should Steam officially come to Helix then that will only be a good thing as there are literally hundreds of great games, possibly even thousands, from smaller devs and indie projects that you can only get via Steam. Having access to such a library would be a huge boon to Helix while offering a huge advantage over PlayStation and Nintendo.

Point in case: I'm a fan of horror titles, particularly of the first person kind, and some of the best I've played are only available via Steam and nowhere else.

@shiny-enzo the problem with helix is that "on paper" it should be better but we dont know how polished/optimized experience will be. Steam machine will fail because of the price not because of the experience as steamOS is amazing.

I think the biggest challenge for MS is to make windows experience as good as xbox OS which I personally dont have faith they can pull off. Thats of course if Helix will work similar to xbox ally which is my assumption for now.

@NishimaruX wasnt there news sometime ago about EGS app on upcoming Helix?

Sure, actually if they do ONLY xbox console store and xbox pc app - that would be good move.
With steam - while it would be amazing for a consumer, it will be detrimental to MS business model as people simply will switch to steam due to better pricing and more games available. This also means MS wont be able to subsidize it.

@Millionski I agree with both points, current gen still has legs so I don’t think people will be too disappointed to play games on current hardware in 28/29.

However I also don’t see prices of components coming down. They might level off and stop rising but won’t go lower.
If they want to sell consoles at 1000 in 2027 postponing to 2029 it’ll will still be a 1K and by that point slightly older tech.
I just can’t see wages rising enough over that two year period that makes a 1K console more affordable for the average consumer that will be put off by a 1K console next year.

@Millionski

Personally I rarely buy directly from Steam, GoG and Epic. I use other platforms, generally Eneba. Whether or not this is detrimental to each individual platform isn't really my problem. I'm the consumer, I go where a product is cheapest. I don't owe these platforms a living. It's up to them to encourage me to buy direct.

This is a lesson Microsoft will come to learn should Helix come with multiple platforms.

People should be pissed about the lack of 4TB/8TB expansions for Series X/S, but nobody's even mentioning those being limited to 2TB all these years because of the insistence on using the shorter form factor NVME drives, which could easily be changed.

I think DOA is what Helix is. At the very least it will cost the same but it will no doubt cost more.

@NishimaruX No worries my friend I knew you were coming from somewhere I just didn't know where from haha ✌️
Hopefully GTA 6 will be worth the price for your series x when it drops I'm looking forward to it.
Welcome to the community aswell don't mind people making out you shouldn't comment here.
It's a bit tribal at times with Xbox I'm very guilty of it myself in the past and will probably will be in the future but hey nobody is perfect haha 😂

@DennisReynolds Shocker you are normally so positive around anything Xbox haha 😂

@Skinny-Pete

To use one of my daughter's sayings 'cool-beans'.

Hopefully GTA 6 will be worth the price for your series x when it drops I'm looking forward to it.

I'm sure it will be. I'm only interested in the single player side and have always found GTA to be gloriously stupid fun. GTA 6 looks to be no exception.

It's a bit tribal at times with Xbox

Yes I've gotten that impression quite quickly.

Here's a weird thing though, regarding the Series X and Play Anywhere. Why is Resident Evil 2 Remake Play Anywhere and Resident Evil 3 Remake not? That literally makes no sense to me. 🤷

@NishimaruX There's good dudes here but yeah it is what is it haha like I said I'm guilty myself sometimes can't lie most likely with you aswell but hopefully you will continue to comment here despite it 😊
GTA 6 hopefully will be amazing it will take something to beat red dead redemption 2 in my books but it's looking good.
Will you be picking up fable when it drops I'm really hyped for that one!
I'm sure the game would sing on a strong gaming pc.

@Skinny-Pete

I'm not really a fan of Fable. While I did play Fable 2, (after all the high praise ), overall I found it rather, how can I put this, 'baby's first RPG '.
I appreciate the simplicity was by design so don't take that the wrong way, or as a slur on your enjoyment of the series, but I'm an RPG veteran dating right back to Bards Tale on the Spectrum so outside of the curious, often amusing narrative, Fable 2 didn't click with me at all. So no, I've no interest in the next Fable.

Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 is more my thing. Throw me in the deep end and let me carve my own path.

RDR was very good, if a little drawn out. I've played a little of RDR 2 and it was very good so will need to find the time to get back into it. Too many other games on the go at the moment.

This was the console generation Xbox needed a pro console. A pro console could have kept us from needing a helix sooner than later. And yes helix is going to be damn expensive. Ram. SSD. Ugh the whole thing expensive. Anyways I’m out on Xbox. I don’t have faith they can turn this ship around and I’m not spending helix money to find out this thing lasts as long as a 3DO, Dreamcast, or jaguar.

There is literally zero chance I will ever pay £1000 for a console. It's just not happening. I think £700 is my limit and even that is asking way too much.

I would happily wait 3-4+ years into the next gen before getting the new Xbox because let's be real. They'll be releasing Series X and PS5 versions of games well into the 2030's.

Helix will cost more, but I think they will also push the helix out to 2030-2032. This will give time for incomes to catch up to inflation and hopefully lessen the component crisis.

So well probably see a $1200-$1500 console in 5-7 years. Honestly at this time, the consoles are fine. There isnt a need to release new ones.

@Runex2121 @Millionski I don't personally think that Helix will sit in the 1300-1500 region. Even if MS aren't likely to subsidise it, the key difference between helix and steam machine is economies of scale. You'd expect them to source most parts for a better deal than Valve ever could, and in bulk

@sixrings I'm willing to bet Xbox did have a Pro console in the works but after failing to scrape back market share against Playstation and the signs were there early on that Sony was running away with yet another console generation, they shifted priorities to next gen to make the jump in power more noticeable and not incremental. I just don't think Xbox banked on Sony advancing so much, so quickly in machine learning and AI to the point that PSSR 2 is allowing the Pro to achieve some very impressive performance metrics and fidelity.

Helix is gonna be $1800 if it has performance similar to that of a RTX 5080 and 1TB of storage. (They mentioned previously performance would be on par with 5080 so I use that as an example). I personally just bought a new PC with a 5090, 64GBRAM, a 9850X3D CPU, 2TB SSD and it was (on sale!) for $5400 USD. Can’t see Helix being lower than 1000…Steam Machine specs are kinda low for a grand.

@Trmn8r Up until about 2 years ago we were still trailing the PS4 and Xbox One. There are only a handful of games that really feel like this gen. The best looking game is still Forbidden West and that was built on a PS4 title. We still have plenty of headroom left.

We also live in a market where a game like Balatro (which looks like a SNES game) can outsell titles with 10x the budget. Pure power doesn’t mean anything anymore.

I’d probably argue we never need another generation of consoles ever again.

Depends on factors such as:

How much RAM and storage did Xbox buy? They have far greater access to RAM and storage than Steam

How much cost is it willing to bear? They have significantly more money they can lose than Steam

When did it source these items? And at what price? Larger orders pre-2024 will be much cheaper than Steam's 2024 + smaller-order prices.

How far will it lean into affordability, by lowering specs and reducing cost (as Asha and Matt Ball have mentioned in recent interviews), Xbox could pivot away from very high-end specs, which would lower the cost.

That will determine the launch price and how many units they can sell at that price.

Unless we have that information, we will just be assuming and guessing.

This is perfectly normal. I still remember in 2015. Back then, the Xbox One was €500 and the first Steam Machine came out. Jep, look it up; it was over €900 back then, made by Alienware, the very first Steam Machine with Steam Controller. In 11 years, the Steam Machine has gone up by €200. What is the price of the Xbox Series X now?

@Fiendish-Beaver even an expectation of 10-15 million units would still be a bulk contract though, unlike steam machine which will likely be priced to order and sell much less than Helix.

I think the reality is that yes, if the specs are set in stone, the BoM is still very high right now. But they will forecast for a few million first year, not to order, and probably already have contracts in place for storage and memory due to the crappy AI push that they've been so implicit in creating

I honestly thought Microsoft was going to win this generation. I would have thought covid would have been helpful for a competition between a trillion dollar company and a billion dollar company. I thought Microsoft would be able to source the components. They couldn’t. It was easier to find a ps5. Xbox also would have been better off selling their console for 100 less and getting it in people’s hands then all these acquisitions which caused them to raise prices which caused people to run from the company. They blamed everything on the Xbox one generation and if they thought that was bad what is their internal thinking now. I love my Xbox controller. I hate the ads in the os. I’ll miss Xbox.

@Coletrain thats true about MS being a bigger playing and being able to secure better pricing for components. That said, we are looking at a whole generation leap in specs over steam machine and reportedly even more powerful than PS6. I just dont see how they can price it at same level as steam machine or below.
For example based on leaked/rumoured specs Helix, GPU alone is equivalent to 5080 or so - thats 1.5k already. Thats excluding RAM that was severly affected by ai crisis and basically all other components.

Basically Helix is targeting a 3K PC rig today, there is just no way it costs less than 1300-1500 and thats assuming they secured the best deals possible. I wouldnt be surprised if it actually goes up to closer to 2k.

@Fiendish-Beaver there are some easy answers though, it's just whether or not MS have the foresight to execute them.

1) Don't sell Helix until 2028 (and pray that AI retreats slowly into the hellscape it crawled out from)

2) make sure all access is available so it can be purchased on an interest free monthly plan

3) Don't release it at an insane figure like £1500. It's DOA at that price point because, even if it is a "PC", that's not how consumers will perceive it

All comes down to being brave with it for me. If they're not prepared to challenge Sony then it's time to exit hardware and leave it to OEMs

@somnambulance I agree and I think the problem is it was ready to go and then the RAM crisis happened. As they are smaller company and did not (could not) secure millions of components, they got hit right away.
I think delaying just did not make sense as its better to sell some of it rather than let it sit on the shelf for years.

By the way latest reports say the same about PS6 - it will be ready to go in 2027 and reportedly Sony doesnt want to delay as again its better to start selling it to enthusiasts than letting it sit on a shelf.

That said, I think Valve could subsidize steam machine and price it more aggressively, so I am not fully buying their reasoning for a price. I think 899 would be doable for them

@Millionski Asha even at this early stage knows that's not a viable price point though. I know I wouldn't jump in at 1300-1500, it's simply not a good product at that price (given it's primary function is gaming)

Valve have priced it at what they have and you know, whatever, I'm hearing all the excuses and defences from them and (some) reviewers: "well it's a PC", "we can't get better deals on components" etc. but they can't seriously think we believe that they don't have the stacks of cash available to subsidise the product.

Xbox is different though. It has an ecosystem that is stagnating in comparison to Valve and Sony, so it's important that they price hardware aggressively

Helix needs to come with Microsoft office and a keyboard mouse set up to justify these prices to the regular crowd.

@Fiendish-Beaver I'm HOPING that the rumours are a little exaggerated, because the comparison to a 5080 will always point to a stupidly high price. The truth should be that FSR4 machine learning should be making the biggest difference for a 4k TV set.

Bear in mind that also, TV gamers don't need stupidly high frame rates. 120 would be the max, with 60fps the norm. So we don't need a crazy SOC with a GPU that can match 5080 in raster performance at all. Probably closer to a 5070 would be ideal. Which brings the ballpark figure down considerably.

I would hope that's what Sharma and Ball are working through now...because over a grand and I'm back to ps6

@Fiendish-Beaver all I want is a console experience. I never asked for PC gaming, nor want it

@Fiendish-Beaver yes I'm in agreement with your £800 disc-less prediction for a PS6.

Just to sort of pare back on all the negativity around pricing and capabilities though, I'm still incredibly excited to see what both MS and Sony are going to produce

@kmtrain83

I paid $1000 for a gaming PC with 32GB RAM 2TB SSD and NVIDIA 4060 GPU three years ago

That would cost a lot more now and therein lies the problem. Costs have doubled since then.

My bet is between £1200-1500 for Helix, with subsidiaries, at the very least.

@Coletrain @Fiendish-Beaver I think instead of re-inventing the wheel they need to release a Series X successor and keep series X as a baseline. And they can do whatever they want with PC - asus rog ally, asus/lenovo desktop - any collab they want or do another 1st party SKU that is basically a dedicated gaming windows PC (xbox PC). But clearly distinguish xbox console and xbox PC.
I dont know about how other people feel, but everyone who actually tried the xbox mode on PC and any console on the market will tell you the experience is VASTLY better on console. Moreover, steamOS while impressive is also behind consoles experience and Windows is miles behind steamOS...

@kmtrain83 based on rumored Helix specs, 999 would be a miracle. Next year costs are expected to go up again so I dont believe anything less than 1500 - maybe 1300 if we are lucky.
Thats of course if Helix would be a windows device.

@Coletrain @Fiendish-Beaver I wonder if xbox OS simply can be installed on Helix? My understanding is that its pretty much done and they need to figure out assembling and distribution. Consoles are running more or less PC specs since last gen, so what could be the roadblock?

I think Asha would be down to make Helix a proper console based on how she wants to bring back consoles. Not sure Satya looks at it the same though...

@somnambulance only in our dreams lol. I expect 0 subsidies based on what Satya said recently - he made it clear - they invested too much and did not see ROI they expected, now its time to monetize the xbox business. I would not be surprised if not only they dont subsidize Helix but put a decent markup to make money off it and cover it with marketing speech like "bext console and PC in one" and stuff like that, like you are paying premium price for "features"

@Fiendish-Beaver people (Especially on push) are very delusional and somehow act like these price hikes affect only MS.

I think we will be lucky if cheapest PS6 (no disc, smallest SSD) will cost same as PS5 PRO. So 899. That would be great. But yeah 1k is very probable and Helix to be easily 1300-1500 (and I lean to 1500+ more lately)

@Fiendish-Beaver when consoels were 300-500 I could buy a second one just for fun, new experience and some exclusvies. Now we are in the era with minimum exclusives between PC/PS5/xbox and in terms of gaming all 3 are mostly the same (of course PC allows mods and settings tweaking but if you have avg PC then experience is similar to consoles) - I just done see any reason to own multiple devices.
Moreover as owner of both xbox and ps5 - its literally gives me a headache to decide where to buy the game now and when I play one or another I dont see much of a difference.

So next gen I just want a proper console experience and with very high chance it will be PS6. I will definitely keep SX for exclusives and my existing library and BC + play anywhere.

@Fiendish-Beaver I'll get the popcorn out and jump over there now 🤣

@Millionski I will say that I've found the Xbox mode on PC to be a lot better recently. But you're right it's nowhere near as good as the Xbox OS. Still too laggy and not very intuitive on the store section.

I don't personally think they would bother with the Xbox OS on the Helix, because of the lack of compatibility with PC games (and that's what we can play on it, apparently) but we can dream...

Just look at PS5/Series X prices as well as the all digital PS5 Pro with its 6yr old Chip. SSD storage and RAM have gone up and I doubt the chipp will be 'cheaper' with a more powerful CPU/GPU built in to it. Shipping and distribution costs too are escalating so I'd be surprised if it was 'much' cheaper - and I can't imagine Sony selling a PS6 either for 'less' than a PS5 Pro costs either.

The raw materials aren't any cheaper, if not actually more expensive as they too likely incur additional shipping costs to get them to the factory for assembly into the Console.

The demand for Silicon, for RAM, for storage etc is increasing which is why the costs are escalating. Add in the rising cost of fuel that affects shipping the hardware around the world and we are more likely to see prices going up and up through the generation if they try and undercut, subsidise and/or take a loss on it...

Helix will certainly be more expensive. Its rumoured leaked specs blow the steam machine out of the water and it has access to other storefronts. It will be priced like a PC. I’m guessing $1500.

My guess is Xbox will release helix at a VERY premium price point but continue selling Xbox series x as a more affordable option relative to helix.

Il spend $1500 on helix if it truly means I can use it as a day to day computer as well as gaming rig with all the openness that comes with PC ecosystem (and free online).

I’ve been wanting to switch to PC but not really interested in all the tweaking that comes with PC gaming. So if Xbox can truly replicate a console like experience but in a PC format I’m sold.

MS is likely to just wait and see how the Steam box preforms. If the Steam box sells very well then the Helix will cost just as much or more. If the Steam box doesn't sell MS is likely going to find ways to keep costs down.

I now nothing about logistics for this kind of business, but I assume Microsoft has a sturdier, more robust network and production-line setup than Valve does for actual hardware.

So maybe they'll be able to score a slightly better deal on components. And being in direct competition with the next Playstation, Microsoft has an incentive to keep the cost-of-entry low. I reckon if (big "if") the RAM and HDD costs have sunk and normalised a bit by the time Helix comes around, it'll end up costing about the same as Valves niche PC-experiment here.

It´s entirely too much for a luxury item like a videogame console, but I think enough people have the expendable income to convince the higher ups that it'll be fine.

I´m personally not paying 1k for a new console anytime soon.

@Wilshiire

and it has access to other storefronts

Not officially confirmed. PC games could just mean Windows Store, not Steam and/or Epic