'No Xbox' Begins Trending On Twitter As Another Game Skips The Platform At Launch

This legitimately makes a stronger case for Xbox being allowed to purchase ABK. Developers are skipping their platform altogether so why shouldn’t they be allowed to strengthen their library when everyone are being strengthened but them?

It’s all about console user base size and what console the game sells the most on.
It’s purely time which costs money development wise. Skip the consoles that have the lowest user base and the game will sell the least on.

Microsoft are the ones to blame with their strategy for this new generation.

Correct me if i am wrong, but Netflix purchased the Oxenfree developer and IP

Xcloud is their direct competitor, as Netflix is a subscription cloud service. It makes some sense not to support Xbox but support places which are not directly competing.

There seems to be a weird amount of fearmongering and hyperbole around xbox at the minute, I cant help but think the ABK deal has a few people shook/panicking and are creating mountains out of mole hills

Putting yourselves in the shoes of an indie developer, initially skipping Xbox makes perfect sense (unless you go GP day 1). Smaller install base, with users mainly consuming content through the service. How many people actually buy indie games day 1, with such a library already on GP?
Instead releasing later on for extra cash, and maybe even directly to GP, not delaying initial release is a sound business move. S*cks but also smart.

@Sakai Yes, but let's not forget that Netflix partnered with MS to handle the advertising for their ad based tier, and Brad Smith is also on the board at Netflix. So, it's not like Netflix is just waging some war with MS. I think this was just a studio decision.

@Cikajovazmaj I think you may have hit the nail on the head there. MS may have created a problem for themselves with their focus on game pass that some devs may not feel it is worth releasing a game on Xbox if they can't/don't want to release on game pass for one of many reasons. Not every game can be added to game pass and MS need to pick the games they add carefully to ensure quality and a variety of content so it's quite possible that the devs will wait until it is possible, or just not bother with an Xbox version altogether.
I've seen recent articles where indie devs have said that their games generally favour releasing on Xbox as they are promoted better and generally sell better, despite the lower install base so I can't see it being because of the user base size.

@DNortonX Microsoft purchasing ABK means and will change nothing. If anything, ABK as well as COD will be killed because of being owned by Microsoft in the end.

The gameboy one is a violation 😭😂

‘Oxenfree II is coming to Netflix, but not Xbox. lol.’

Yeah because Netflix own it you melon.

I think at the moment this is being blown out of proportion, ignore the dregs of society on Twitter.

@Sebatrox It's not just 1 single game though is it. This is something that keeps happening time and time again. Look at Square Enix, they don't even support Xbox anymore.

This means it will be added later to Game Pass. After it made the biggest sales.

Right?

@Snake_V5 crisis core just released on xbox

@SplooshDmg i highly doubt it was the studios choice when they’ve releases other games on Xbox and gave interviews about releasing on Xbox. I think there is even an IGN interview where the mentioned it where they praised. It.

Anyway, MS and Netflix can be friendly companies but as far as content goes Netflix can still see MS as a competitor. Nintendo doesn’t release content on Xbox but the two companies are friendly.

There is a lot of people with insight into this and I won’t link them but yes it’s most likely because Netflix sees MS as a direct competitor.

Netflix today is now entering publishing games in the console space. They aren’t the same company as they were two months ago. Looking at past actions ignores they weren’t a publisher of console games two months ago.

And who they view as competition in that space depends on what they are aiming for. You can’t play Sony or Nintendos console games on a phone. You can play MS games via xCloud. Now right now that’s a service limited very limited but you think Netflix cares?

It’s not a war but you can’t expect the rules to stay the same now.

I mean, it's pretty much a given at this point that Sony will buy Square it seems once they are done crying about the Activision/Blizzard purchase and that goes through. So otherwise, Oxenfree 2 and some no-name game nobody cares about.

I'm seeing some people say the Oxenfree situation is made worse by the fact that the first one launched exclusively on Xbox. Keep that same energy with Hellblade 2.

@mousieone I just fail to see how that argument makes any sense. Netflix is releasing this on mobile, not streaming. If Netflix doesn't choose to offer this on Game Pass with streaming, then this is nowhere near a phone for MS's offering. It's not unusual for smaller studios, and even larger studios to skip Xbox. That's what this entire thing is about. How is it that Netflix is aspiring to become a multiplatform AAA publisher, but they view MS with the struggling Xbox as competition worth isolation, but Sony and Nintendo somehow aren't?

Is it a guarantee it's not coming? Couldn't they announce it themselves down the road?

@mousieone @SplooshDmg To be fair, I do see the point with the Netflix thing. Sure it's phone not streaming, but in general, Microsoft is Netflix' most direct real competitor, as both are the cornerstones of subscription model services in general, MS having even compared the idea of GP years ago to be "the Netflix of gaming", yeah, I could see Netflix being a little aggressive with games on MS' platform(s) since they now want to be the Netflix of gaming themselves....

@NEStalgia Honestly, I think it's just pushing into corporate conspiracy stuff. You all could be right, but I simply with the limited info we have don't buy it. Games skip Xbox. Every time a game skips Xbox it's some conspiracy about who did it and why. When the reality really might be that the Xbox One was basically a failed product, and the Series X|S isn't doing much better at this point. This entire thing is just getting tiresome.

@Dezzy70 I wouldn't go that far. There are tens of millions of Xbox consoles out there and the devs are forfeiting profits. How much could it cost to develop some of these games? Microsoft has proven pretty eager to support indie development and make deals on smaller games. We also know that deals to keep games off of Xbox is not exactly unheard of.

@Clankylad That's correct. The first people to come to Pure Xbox just to make things dreary and doomed for Xbox are the resident Xbox haters and fake neutrals (tiny user base, nobody buys Xbox games, Game Pass is not profitable, etc). It's a pity that the Xbox fans are much quieter.

Okay, when something like this happens, try to think the most logical explanation based on "Previously on Xbox". Xbox OS is Windows so if you develop a Windows version it's very easy to develop an Xbox version. We all know that Sony is an anticompetitive company whose shotgun is backfiring every shot since the ABK acquisition started. We also know that many indie developers that are asked about the Xbox version answer, "Stay tuned!" and things like that on Twitter. They think that the game will be more successful on PS4 or Switch (they're probably right in spite of the indie saturation in those shops) but they are not against Xbox and they release it one year later or try to sign a Game Pass deal. I didn't like Oxenfree but of course the more the merrier.

Seems to me that Netflix blocking game from Xbox at this point would do them more harm than good.
And I have not seen a release saying Xbox will never be supported. It could be just the most obvious thing, small indie studio optimizing their resources toward realistic targets (something MS should try themselves, with all delays and late feature drops lately)
P.S.
This is a single, better than average, indie game. There have been few cases, that don't yet make a trend. Reaction here is completely blown out of proportion. Xbox has not been doomed. It's ok to not get all the games in the universe day 1.

@SplooshDmg 100% it’s streaming. When they said “Netflix” as a platform it means streaming. Yes there are native versions maybe but 100% it will be able to be streamed. And yes it’s true they could release on Xbox not GP, but Fortnite can be played via xCloud and isn’t technically in GP.

What doesn’t make sense is dev that’s released on Xbox twice before suddenly getting to chose their own platforms when aquired by publisher and say yeah we’re aren’t doing an Xbox version. It’s usually the Switch version they released after BTW.

As far as I know devs don’t normally get their choice in these matter; it’s the publisher. Now if they hadn’t been acquired sure.

@SplooshDmg @NEStalgia I’m not talking about other games skipping the platform. Richard Hoeg the corporate lawyer that’s explaining the ABK deal on YouTube even said in his opinion this is because Netflix sees MS as a rival. Others have also weighed in that that it makes sense. Again the dev had no issues with putting stuff on Xbox as the primary platform but suddenly skips?

The Square stuff or smaller pubs that’s one thing but this is literally Netflix getting into gaming. And I don’t think they would want to publisher their game on the “Netflix of gaming” platform.

@mousieone No, they aren't. They are circumventing the Google Play Store and the Apple App Store and you install through the Netflix app.

"Before we try Netflix Games out on some smartphones, it’s worth talking about how it works. This isn’t like Google Stadia, where games are streamed to your device without the need to install anything, despite Netflix being best known for streaming. Instead, when you choose one of the games listed in the Netflix app, it transports you to your phone’s app store to download the game itself."

@BrilliantBill Exactly, and yes Square is JRPGs basically at this point.

@SplooshDmg fine but they want to provide a way to control your phone. Keep you engaged on it. MS had already said they want to do the same thing and open their own ap store. Wouldn’t you see that as your competitor?

@SplooshDmg I lived through WiiU as a WiiU main, I know the drill. (Project CARS is coming to WiiU, I know it!!)

But Where MS is right now is this mixed dichotomy. One segment of the industry ignores them because they don't sell enough games on console. Another segment ignores them because they're an evil games monopoly blocking their way to the industry.

On one hand it's the Xbox that keeps dropping in sales and "people don't buy games", on the other hand once ABK is done they'll own like 3 of the top 10 mobile games, which basically represents triple Nintendo's entire annual revenue, and have the leading cloud/sub service. It's just such a weird product space to talk about.

TBH what really amazes me is that so many people DO buy so many games on other platforms at modern prices. I honestly don't get how software sales can be as high as they are, especially for random games that aren't the 10 big hype games of the year. I can't fathom how sales haven't fallen through the floor yet given the amount of games vying for attention, the amount of games designed to consume all attention forever, and the amount of people that play only 2 of those games and nothing else. How does basically anything lower on the tier list than Ghostwire even end up selling 5 copies? The games market is just such a weird market that defies any economic norms.

@mousieone Richard Hoeg is an attorney, and he's a smart dude, but he doesn't have clairvoyance and that's just his opinion. He's changed his opinion on the ABK merger passing like fifteen times because all it takes is one shred of new info to change the situation entirely. All I'm saying is Netflix can't be a AAA multiplatform publisher, but also terrified of MS because they stream games. Sony is hiring people for a cloud division as I type this. Will they just not release games on PS later too?

It's upsetting that Octopath Traveler 2 and the Final Fantasy Pixel remasters won't be on Xbox, but at the same time it's semi-understandable in that JRPGs probably don't sell the greatest on the console and, I'll admit, playing them on it just somehow feels out of place. Also, companies have chosen their platforms to develop and release their games for since the very beginning, so the fact that a major Japanese company chose to sit out on its latest JRPG releases shouldn't come as too much of a surprise. They're in it for the money, and if they didn't feel their past releases did well enough, it doesn't matter what you want them to release their games on. Still, it couldn't have been that difficult to just whip up a quick port (after all, they're on PC), and the fact that they're on literally everything else is concerning.

As for Oxenfree 2... who cares? I'm not interested in that game on any platform. It not releasing on Xbox doesn't affect me in any way.

@SplooshDmg Fine be obtuse but this is one of the few times most people in the industry agree it’s a competition thing.

But you tell me why dev that’s gave interviews and did t have any issue publishing on Xbox suddenly decided nope?

And maybe they won’t release on Sony later but that’s not right now. Right now between them Xbox is literally trying to launch a mobile platform Sony is not.

@mousieone I'll be obtuse all day long, because it's such a petty game release that it just makes no sense. Oxenfree 2 skipping Xbox consoles isn't all of a sudden going to stop Microsoft's cloud efforts. It's a drop in the bucket, and anyone in a position of power surely knows that.

I don't know why devs do anything they do. I don't know why anyone says anything they say in front of a camera. They just do. At the time MS probably gave them some money for a deal, and talking good about who is paying you at the moment maybe isn't that odd. Who knows?

@UltraZelda64 A friend bought Octopath Traveller when it was released for Switch and I tried it but it was the Series X version what I found the most enjoyable because of the crisper graphics, smoother performance and controller. I remember seeing Octopath Traveller in the most popular Game Pass ranking.

These games have an audience on Xbox and the development costs are minimal once there is a Windows versions. It's not like the Xbox360/PS3 era when porting from one console to the other was extremely difficult. A Windows version of console games only started to be a popular thing last generation, precisely when consoles started to be PCs (PS4 and Xbox One, what @NEStalgia called the PC twins). Somehow, many people think that games fail on Xbox and are very difficult to bring to that platform but all developers (except Sony's) say that it's an easy thing to do.

Xbox haters will make anything up for kicks and social media clicks. Oxen who? Is all I can say. And there is a ton of fantastic titles on Xbox.

@Wheatly The two events that changed the narrative are ABK, MS went radio silent and seems bent on looking pathetic to get ABK through, and it's working. The other is, that still wasn't a problem until Sony resolve their hardware production issues and suddenly flooded the market with PS5s to sudden saturation. XSX's are still often impossible to find, PS5,s are stacked to the ceiling. That was the the day the theme changed for real. Just about 2.5 months ago. Couple it with delays on the big MS games and I think that really ruined them more than lack of capitalizing on Sony gaffes, simply being on the wrong end of Sony flooding the market while MS didn't. I don't think that can be recovered this gen. Once the momentum swings like that, it's hard to bounce back.

@mousieone @SplooshDmg I agree with Mousie on that one, PS is doing their streaming thing, but are adamant that they don't want it to be a competitive platform. It's not a real subscription competitor by design. MS is currently #1 in the space that Netflix wants to be in. For Netflix to publish on Xbox is basically the same for their subscription industry as publishing on Xbox is for Sony or Nintendo in the console space. Like is there any reasonable explanation as to why one would think they would publish on Xbox or Luna? It's the directly competing platform in the sub space as much as PS and Xbox in the console space are.

Doesn't mean I don't think MS has uncontrollably blundered console and lost all the momentum they built from 2018-2021 and reset back to 2015, because they have. But I think this particular product is a different issue and is simply the rival platform not publishing with their competitor, same as in the console space (other than Xbox which publishes more on Sony and Nintendo than on Xbox, but that's their own weirdness.)

@SplooshDmg no you aren’t going to do that this time. It’s not a drop in the bucket. It’s the first of 40 games that they plan on releasing over the next few years. You don’t get to check out of the news, come back and act like Ota one thing when it’s clearly another.

Sony considers itself a multiplat dev and they don’t l release on Xbox. This isn’t different.

MS has made their intentions into cloud a mobile loud. Meanwhile Sonys been quiet it about it. They’ve also failed and lack the kind of money to be a player there.

Netflix can see that. But trust me if that changes they’ll stop releasing on Ps as well.

While it would be great if there was just ONE CONSOLE and everything released on it, that will never be the case. Unfortunately, if you want access to every game, you have to own every console.

@mousieone I haven't checked out of the news. I check out of here because there's only so much interacting with humans that I can stand. I'm not even saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I don't agree with your speculations. Reality could end up being whatever it ends up being, and the only truth here is none of us know for sure. It's possible that MS could be isolating themselves in the tech world, or it's possible that people making games really just don't give a rats arse about Xbox. We have plenty of evidence to support both claims.

Whilst the situation with SE is a little concerning and seems to have more behind it, I don't think this story fits that narrative but some have tried to push that narrative as a result.
A few unknown games skipping the platform is hardly earth shattering news, no matter how trolls paint it.
Compared with Bethesda and teams like ID being only on Xbox, and soon the ABK stuff, this kind of non news has little impact on the majority of the games buying public.

However, the message is not being shouted enough and Xbox is falling behind the sales curve as a result. I assume that once the ABK merger is cleared, MS will go on a huge advertising campaign to ensure the public understand the benefits of the box. It can't happen soon enough imo as once your main competitor has twice the install base you have, its a tough climb back no matter many devs you buy.

Its also quite probable that MS are looking at PC, GP and mobile as their future and might not care if sales of xbox continue to slide - their overall games business will still grow.
I really hope that's not the case as the industry benefits form having two 'high level' consoles competing, and I still feel the Series X has not had its chance to shine and really flex its muscles.

Exclusiviy needs to stop from 3rd parties. If it's in house game that's different but outside studios, no.

I'm not supporting companies that pull this BS. Will put my money towards something else.

Consolidation will just lead to more games being siloed off. Xbox will get some, but Sony will buy Square (bad for the industry!) and google/apple/nextlix will exclude Xbox from various titles due to their growth.

I wish Xbox didn’t buy studies and just got their current studios to produce quality games in a reasonable pace.

@Moonglow I am your fan 😂.

@NEStalgia There is no more or less motivation to publish on Luna or Xbox than there is PC, PS or Switch. They are offering the game other places day one. There is nothing sacred about you being forced to open up your phone, go to the Netflix app and install Oxenfree 2. You have the choice to go buy it somewhere else and play it without ever looking at Netflix. Netflix is NOT streaming games to phones. They are circumventing the App stores on mobile. That seems to be their real motivation. If they don't release on xCloud, that's not a reality. Luna probably has about seven subscribers, so even that is a stretch. However, I can download it on Steam, go fire up the iPad and stream Oxenfree 2 to my iPad without even installing Netflix. In this hugely tangled up mess we call the tech world, I don't see how not releasing games for individual sale on Xbox consoles is somehow defending Netflix's ambitions to gain subscribers. It's not different than "Available Day One on Game Pass!". The game may be available other places, but there's only one place to play it day one with your subscription. That's the motivation to open the Netflix app.

@SplooshDmg I kinda of think you are missing the point. But yeah it’s fine. I don’t agree with you. Not this time with this game.

@NEStalgia no I think MS has dropped the ball. I mean they going back to XB1 numbers in Japan. They’ve fallen off all the charts globally it’s sad. I hated COD before but now I really hate it.

It would be great if it turns out Oxenfree 2 was planned to be a stealth day 1 gamepass drop, hence no anouncement.

One of the reasons I got an Xbox was some buzzy games coming to Xbox and not other platforms (Deaths Door, Song of the Sea). There may have been others. Those examples later released on other platforms but I am glad I purchased. It's all about which games you really want, and how patient you can be.

@mousieone I'm not missing anything, I just don't think your point makes any sense, as it basically just sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. As you don't think mine makes any sense. Odds are we're both wrong and just yelling at clouds.

I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one that sees this. However, for some reason, the perception is something else. I wonder if it's because the majority of players don't waste time on gaming sites like we do and because Nintendo and Sony fans are known for being extremely vocal but, for once, I agree with @Titntin, Xbox marketing should improve. I hope that this changes once the ABK is completed because Sony has never had a worse reputation than now and Microsoft should make the most of it, not to destroy Sony because that's not what I want but to balance the industry and, most of all, to stop Sony's anticompetitive practices. For me, the best part about the whole ABK deal is that the authorities are questioning Sony about their anticompetitive practices because they should be illegal and in other business areas those practices, e.g., paying third parties to damage your competitor, are illegal already.

The hate for xbox brand is just so high the level that maybe even ABK deal cant save, Don mattrick have done a big damage to the brand and the leak of exclsuives after that didnt help, seem every journalist and youtube gaming channel just waiting from any small news to put a negative comment on them,

To be honest o don't think good exclsuives will do the trick as they get hate for no reason xbox need to make top tier games and with no always online no rushed releases no 30 fps only!!! Xbox need to do wonders to clean there names

Even if COD is ganna owned by xbox the community will hate on it and they will try to support any game that try to rival it (like xdefient) the loyalty to sony and also the hate to xbox will make a comeback for xbox very hard, and this is funny as sony now is so anti consumer right now but fans wont see it and journalist hides it

To be fair. Microsoft has firmly set up camp in the western rpg area. Buying up publishers that have the bigger names in this area.

So for me it’s unsurprising that jrpg are not promoting as hard to be on Xbox. They obviously feel for what ever reason, they don’t need to publish these smaller titles on Xbox

@Widey85 I agree once again. Some silly launch issues that could have been fixed damage a game's reputation. I'm positive about the future because of what Xbox Game Studios have in the oven but I can't ignore how 343 Industries needed external assistance to finish Halo Infinite in spite of the massive budget and that The Initiative, that started as dream team, has Crystal Dynamics developing their first game. An older example would be State of Decay 2, a mess at launch but one of my favourite games on Series X.

Series S|X is the best way to sell Game Pass to gamers, that's true as well. Perhaps revised models will help.

@Sebatrox More than likely with those games you mentioned it would be the Switch hardware, it's not powerful enough.

@Widey85 I agree 100% and I couldn't have said it better. In the end, nobody should wish Microsoft doom because look at how anti-consumer is Sony already, I can't imagine what they would do without Microsoft around and without authorities questioning them about their dirty practices towards competition and gamers.

@Widey85 apart from @dezzy70 there is never any articles on why sales numbers are dropping or the fact circana?! (Npd) are saying that subscription while growing is slowing. The site gives off the appearance everything is rosy with Xbox when in fact there are questions to be asked.

The console is good. Series S is a steal. Games pass is dirt cheap. Potential of Abk most likely dropping cod on there. So why aren’t people buying Xbox?

@SplooshDmg sure it is clouds. But like I said a dev successfully publishing all their games on platform suddenly saying nope after getting acquired seems far more “conspiracy theory” to me, than Netflix choosing not to publish on the platform seen as the “Netflix” of gaming. 🙅🏼‍♀️

To each their own. Clouds it is.

If you consider that Xbox is just not Series S|X consoles but Windows PCs (via Steam and Microsoft Store) and Cloud (tablets, smartphones, TV, Xbox One) and the stock issues that have affected Series S|X and PS5, plus the fact that PS5 just ramped production up, the numbers aren't as bad as our local Sony fans say:

PS5: 35.44 (19.6% market share counting Switch as competitor)

Series S|X: 21.33m (11.8% market share counting Switch as competitor)

PS5 has sold 1.6x more consoles, not 2x like they usually say.

I'm sick to death of indie games so this doesn't bother me in the slightest.

@mousieone We're talking about 2016. That's seven years ago. I'm not sure if you're paying attention or not, but Xbox is currently getting decimated (I know that might offend the faithful, but that's fine), maybe worse than they were even in 2016. Square Enix used to launch exclusives on the 360 too. Then times changed. I really thought MS had a handle on this stuff and were turning the brand back around, but at this point I have zero confidence in them. I can't shake my fist at a developer for skipping Xbox when most of Xbox's wounds are entirely inflicted by MS.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner
Because they have lost any main momentum and are not trendy and useful as a games creator.

The switch has its characters and main games and family games and a hybrid console.
Has masses of PR etc.

Sony is the trendy kid to own and has some big AAA titles and is the main playground chat with COD and FIFA. Very good PR and advertising.

Xbox, basically has none of the above that gets the general public on board. General public don’t care about game pass and don’t even know about it really.
Xbox just brings up the rear with some hardcore fans and the main geeky gang and picks of a few general public.
Xbox still will never move beyond that currently in my opinion and sales show this with month on month less sales in 2023 than in 2022.

@SplooshDmg Afterparty didn’t launch in 2016. It launched well after. The developer was acquired in 2021 and the game was announced in 2021. This was time Xbox was doing well. So no you can use that logic here. 2021 was a great year for XSX/S

@SplooshDmg
Microsoft are currently destroying the Xbox brand slowly but surely.
Week on week sales down in every territory
Month on month sales down in every territory
Having the most power console series x and the most cheapest series s is doing nothing.
General public wise the brand is getting less and less recognised with gaming.

@mousieone I really have no idea what you're going on about. I'm particularly referring to Oxenfree, which launched in 2016. Afterparty launched in 2019. Xbox was def not doing well in 2019. I get it. You think everyone shuns Xbox because of whatever reason. I think some reality has to be accepted that the Xbox brand is far from healthy. I like Xbox, I'm not here to knock it down. Honestly, I'm pretty mad they're screwing this up so bad and I'm done making excuses for them, which is why we aren't going to find any agreeance here. This is MS's fault, period.

@Dezzy70 I think they gave it the old college try, but I just don't know anymore. My confidence in Xbox has finally reached rock bottom. I'm here for the games, when the games show up, I'll be waiting. But their performance for the last year and a half is just... Wow. I as a consumer owe them boo squat.

@Banjo- Most of the comments I see saying the gap is bigger is from those in favour of the ABK deal, where the claim is that Sony 'dominates' the market share and MS needs ABK to be able to compete and close the gap. Those figures you posted paint a massively different picture

@SplooshDmg I didn’t say “everyone” I even said I agree I’d this was a Square game. Now you are reaching. Again any other company sure it’s a different story. I just think in this one case it’s competition and a rival platform.

Oxenfree 2 was announced in 2021. A time period that was going well for Xbox in the indie scene and Gamepass. They were also acquired that same year by Netflix.

@Kevw2006 Yes, I've read all kind of different figures (income, game sales, number of exclusives, Japanese market, etcetera). Those I posted are console figures. If you count Nintendo, Switch is the console leader (68.4%) which never ceases to impress me because it's a Wii U 1.1.

PS5 sales increased now but it's because they ramped production up while Series X has stock issues. Some people are picturing it as if it's the end of Xbox. Maybe they will release tons of Series S|X along with Starfield or an ABK game.

@mousieone I really don't see how I'm reaching anywhere. I'm just looking at the data available and saying, "Oh, man. This looks kinda rough". Maybe Oxenfree 2 wasn't planned for Xbox because Night School doesn't have a crystal ball to check and see if they think it's worth their time before starting the project. Just because Oxenfree 2 was announced in 2021 doesn't mean that development started then, or they decided to just change plans because MS managed to get some Xbox's out the door that year. Again, all speculation and just throwing it out there for the sake of arguing.

@SplooshDmg no I mean you are reaching with what I said. You made it seem like I’m saying everyone when I’m literally talking about this one instance.

@mousieone Oh, don't give me that. You wigged out when the Furi devs announced that the DLC was skipping Xbox. You wigged out when Actraiser was on mobile and not Xbox. This isn't the first time we've done this, and it probably wont be the last.

@Widey85 Console's a rough space. Historically once a console gains the overwhelming dominance, another one doesn't really become competitive until the next generation. Wii reversed from dominance because it really wasn't selling to the gaming market it was a separate market that moved on. X360 reversed from dominance only to near parity (despite the exaggerated "PS3 won (after the next gen was already available)" claims, but it slowed because of major blunders by Matrick. But that's about it.

I think MS could definitely rebound a bit once the big games start rolling, and if they do big marketing, CoD marketing, etc. I think we're at the generation low point here and it will pick up. But I do think PS5 will be far and away dominant again at this point. The inventory thing clinched it.

It's not all bad though, I said during the "Project Scarlet" days I wanted MS to "lose" so they continue having to be consumer friendly and remain a great experience. As long as they're making money and have enough market, and the market remains competitive, they'll keep doing so.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner Lack of marketing, lack of "cool factor" for the young set especially. People just buy what they see is what other people buy. Sony are masters of marketing. I hate that that works, but it unfortunately does because most of the human race is brainless. But also, PS5 is available to buy and XSX is basically not. You still have to really want one to go out of your way to get one, and most console buyers just want "a console" and don't really care much beyond that if it plays the big games. They both play Hogwarts, it's all fine.

Heck take a look at what FFXVI will do. Fans of the series are all arguing over the (disastrous bunch in the nether region) the game is to fans, or be apologists that refuse to accept the brand as anything but perfect no matter what it is. That's like 10% of the market. For most people they'll just see a very pretty looking tech demo that's super hyper advertised as the next big thing that the world has told them they're supposed to like, and it's not on Xbox, so they'll buy the PS5. Then even if MS does the same with Starfield and it goes Skyrim level viral in September......do they have consoles to sell people? Not enough of them even if demand surges.

Subs are slowing across the board due to saturation, many subs competing for money, and global recession perfectly excellent bull market _{approved language} but still growing. Console sales seem strong, but.....right now PS has the marketing/hype, cool factor and importantly, product availability.

Does that all change once ABK goes through? not at first, as SOny still has marketing rights on CoD. Does it all change once MS gets total marking exclusivity on CoD? After a lag time, maybe. But, then....even if demand increases, if product availability doesn't they still have a problem.

That's a problem for the US though. For Europe where Sony boasts what, "83% market share" between the two? That's game over. Who buys the console that literally nobody else buys? Recovering from that is very hard without a totally new product launch.

@Dezzy70 "Sony is the trendy kid to own" "Xbox just brings up the rear with [...] the main geeky gang"

Well that explains it all. Trendy has never been for me, ever, I run the opposite way as fast as I can, and geeky....well...here I am!

@SplooshDmg DLC yes I will all day long. Because it’s half of game. Which is dumb. But I didn’t scream about the pixel remasters. And I believe my conversation with you about Octopath 2 was based solely on money. But it’s funny how you forgot that conversation.

But you want to paint me the villain here you go right ahead.

@Sebatrox Okay babe 😌

@mousieone I didn't forget that one. You and I didn't agree there either. Lol

I'm not painting you as anything. We are arguing on the internet, and you're making your points and I'm making mine. If we both walk away from here without changing our minds, then fine by me. Other than that, nothing happened. If you want to take it personally, I guess you're allowed to do that. However, this is just another argument I'm adding to the long list of argument's I've had with you prior.

Most people surely must own at least one of the major consoles and a switch? Unless they're a diehard mental obviously.

Makes you wonder how strong sales are with Xbox versions of games and if Gamepass is really killing sales of games and causing players to skip games not on GP.

@Banjo- The reason I brought up Windows/PC versions of these games being available is because the Xbox itself--being a Microsoft console--runs a version of Windows with DirectX, so if Square already did the work to port it to PC it's not like they'd have to do a lot to get it on Xbox.

@WallyWest I truly believe Game Pass could be beginning to have an adverse effect. Game Pass is an experiment, I think, and it's been an experiment worth seeing. It's fun, it's neat and it's def saved me a few bucks. But I think there surely has to be some consideration being given now that a product not launching on Game Pass is now competing against Game Pass for attention and dollars. There's some level of possibility that MS's biggest draw to its platform is also it's Achilles Heel.

@SplooshDmg I think a big problem with GP is a lot of its users don't care for games not on it, the "wait till its on GP" mentally is clearly real so if a game isn't on GP then sales suffer meaning why bother releasing at all on Xbox?

I really wish Pure Xbox, a site dedicated to Xbox, wouldn't reproduce every ps fanboy's propaganda. So now Oxenfree is the end of all things?

@Moonglow
Fair enough, when I get the big AAA games from Xbox because that is what I play, my preference then I will change my stance.
Currently for over 2 years it’s been maybe this and that and broken schedules and results.

@WallyWest Right, not saying every Xbox user does that, but the whole idea of paying for the sub is to have something to play. The idea of subbing, then just buying a game and not using the sub seems contrary to the point of the sub. I think with Game Pass, they have put so much focus on new games (and that's great), that it really is just talking players out of spending elsewhere. It's hard to fault the user because that's what they paid for and what MS offers. However, I think MS can sustain Game Pass and make money from it, but I also think it's creating a new friction for developers who might want to release on Xbox.

@NEStalgia
Don’t get me wrong me probably just as geeky in most ways 😊

@SplooshDmg
I’m in exactly the same position as you.
But oh my god, it’s like watching paint dry waiting for Xbox at the moment, year after year.

@Sebatrox
Don’t forget USA PS5 And even the Switch sell better currently in 2023.
Well done in China to Xbox.

@Dezzy70 It's honestly just disappointing. We keep coming back and saying MS has it this time, then they prove us wrong again. Every new year is going to be the big year for Xbox, then they take two steps back and into a pit of used surgical equipment. You know what they say tho, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

@UltraZelda64 Exactly! If there is a Windows with DirectX version like the Final Fantasy games, it's super easy to port to Xbox.

@SplooshDmg @WallyWest Yes and no. Some people will "wait for game pass" because that's how they're budgeting. Some will "wait for game pass" because they're not highly interested in a particular game but if they have the opportunity to play it in their sub, they might play it. OTOH sales have been strong for day one games, even mediocre to poor ones like High on Life despite being on game pass, so I think it's a generalization to come to that conclusion.

I'm sure there's good and bad there. The bad might be it's not as much raw profit as Nin/Sony's model, and some devs might be gunshy to be on the platform competing with GP. OTOH it elevates GP itself to be a sort of ultra-premium platform in terms of devs fighting to get an invite on it and get the associated marketing blitz. I know people see it as the "value platform" and the opposite of "premium" but for devs the associated semi-first-party-exclusive level marketing spotlight GP gives a game is like getting a billboard in times square, it's premium you fight for and can't simply buy, especially for higher profile indies. Rockstar doesn't need it but plenty of devs do.

But how DOES the friction it generates of basically having a "showcase spotlight" on GP titles fighting all other titles on the platform get resolved? That's A good question, but not necessarily a negative that shouldn't exist.

Some in the industry then like the Sony idea that subscription is only for back catalogue. I don't think that's where sub goes either. I don't think people would subscribe to Netflix if you could only watch I love Lucy, Knight Rider, and MacGyver. I would. Most wouldn't.

There's also the gamble. If MS does it, Netflix does it, Amazon does it, sooner or later Apple does it, then like with Spotify and Netflix the old model just kind of becomes obsolete. People just get used to entertainment costing X amount at that point.

OTOH, I think if we get to the point where we say there's only enough space in the market for PS and Nintendo both who have decided gaming should cost fortunes and extract every penny possible and nobody can compete with them.....I'll become a mobile gamer at that point. Gaming's just dead at that point.

@Phantasystar77 They're not trying to crash it, they're just vaguely incompetent at marketing, somewhat going for a different strategy that's not all about consoles being the #1, and currently by all appearances trying to look as useless as possible so FTC/CMA doesn't think they're a monopoly.

@Widey85 The thing with Xbox is its value increases the more hardcore a gamer you are. It's the better system in a lot of ways for people who play loads and loads of games, mostly digitally. The reason we like it, that's it's a great enthusiast box that's not as costly or time consuming as PC, is also part of why it fails, most people want a plastic box to play NBA/Fifa/CoD on occasionally and it never goes any further than that. PS has the image and appeal for that group, which is the majority of the whole consumer base on consoles.

The question, that doesn't work on internet arguments but does work in shareholder meetings, is how profitable is that group of nerdy enthusiasts? Even at worst, even if we just look at GP subscribers that play ONLY GP games, we're talking abut customers spending $180 a year, which is still more money spent than the average gamer that buys 2 games a year. Are they spending as much as the Ninty/PS enthusiast that buys 12 AAA games day one and 15 $20 indies? No. But if they're more profitable than the average console consumer, that's still a win. it doesn't win numbers shows and it won't earn squeenix not skipping the console, but it's a solid business to keep going. And hopefully keeps Nin/Sony at least slightly honest. Though I have little faith there.

The game pass model causes this. You often see people saying “I’m not buying will wait for gamepass” unless MS offer that sweet gamepass money more and more will skip. Greed from gamers has caused this issue and more and more it’ll get worse. Especially with so many clamouring for 3rd party companies to be swallowed up into the GPU calendar. Enjoy your wait for a new doom/fallout etc.

I’d rather pay and get the games I love.

I look forward to coming back to Push Square….I mean Pure Xbox when all cylinders are firing and we’ve got Redfall, Forza 8, Starfield and Activision-Blizzard under our belts…while Sony only has Spider-Man 2 from first party. This is going to be a great year for Xbox. But you wouldn’t know it reading this site.

@SplooshDmg
And please no one tell me the below is ok and healthy for a new console starting it’s third year.
Also with the most powerful console and the most cheapest console of all the manufacturers.

Worldwide for March 2023 compared to 2022.
Xbox Series X|S sales are down by 343,537 units (-38.2%).
And third world wide March 2023
2:1 compared to Switch.
4:1 compared to PS5.

If game pass was that wanted by everyone the Xbox console would be selling a lot better.
No it isn’t people would rather pay for games on switch and PS5, simple as that.

@NEStalgia Right, and I think your points are all relevant here. I'm not really dunking on Game Pass, but the word we've used before is 'disruptive'. It is absolutely disruptive, and I think we're just sort of casually observing how it is actually playing out in the market. For all the good it could do for one studio on Game Pass, it might be a total death sentence for the studio that isn't interested in a Game Pass deal, or maybe MS just wasn't interested in their game.

I hate to say it, but I think PS+ Extra is just realistically a better overall strategy. It's maybe not as beneficial to the customer, but I think in terms of sales metrics and consumer value, it strikes a pretty solid line between the content producers and the customer. Let Sony and their partners sell their game, then put it on the sub later. I understand MS is trying to draw new customers with their sub, where Sony really isn't, and that's the difference here. PS+ Extra probably does more to negate secondhand sales or really just caters to customers that were already just patient gamers anyway.

I'm still shaking my first at Nintendo for not letting me just buy Metroid Fusion on my Switch, tho. I don't want their damn sub. I just want to play Metroid Fusion on my Switch.

@somnambulance I am ashamed of how huge a Bethesa fan I am. I mean, I owe Todd nothing, but I love that snake oil salesman. I stuck a 3080ti in my PC early last year in anticipation for Starfield, and then he let me downe. But really, I can't imagine Toddy will let me down in terms of the actual game when it gets here. Sure, it'll be a buggy mess at launch (probably), but that's fine, that's what I expect. I've somehow always avoided the game breaking Bethesda bugs, and just encountered the fun silly bugs. I guess I'm lucky, or a unicorn. But really, somethings gotta give. Let 2023 be that year already...

@SplooshDmg I prefer term discussion and we didn’t disagree with Octopath 2. We had a slightly different viewpoint but I didn’t see Square as doing it out of hate. We both saw it as a cost issue. The only differences of opinion there, wa I thought it had more to do with them waiting for a GP deal. But that was it. I don’t think Square Enix is a villain there. I do think the relationship is strained but that’s normally with business partners and not one sided. Money smooths everything over.

I don’t take it personally. Maybe if it was someone else l. But you front woke that way. So no it’s a difference of opinion.

@mousieone You say tomato, I say tomato. That doesn't work as well when you type it out, does it?

@SplooshDmg Plus Extra is a LOT cheaper though. It's a different strategy but I'm not sure it's really comparable in terms of value propositions. People joke that gp is "free games" but it's actually pretty expensive based on normal player spend. Plus extra is truly practically free, so the content disparity isn't that stark.

@Dezzy70 Is not as simple as people wanting or not wanting gp. It's more about marketing and perception, especially among young people more interesting in popularity and image than anything else so all which is most of the games market. You can pay for games on either box. Ps is the one they pay on because it's the one that seems popular.

It's really a flaw in modern society than anything. People don't comparison shop and do cost benefits they just look to be sure they're doing the same as everyone else, and wait for the company to tell them what to like. Ps does that. Ms doesn't. I really just despise humanity.

@Stocksy So keep in mind though the the percentage of the market that buys $1500 worth of games a year is like a single digit percent of the market though. People in the enthusiast bubble tend to lack perspective of how most consumers spend on games and why gp pricing is where it is. It leads to focusing on the wrong problems.

@NEStalgia Right, and that is true. I think the cheaper-ness of PS+ adds something, though. Like you said, Game Pass Ultimate is kind of pricey. It hurts a lot more to pay for GPU and not use it, than say buy a whole year of PS+ on Black Friday for $80 and not use it, because you still got the benefits of Plus Essential as well. So, an odd game here or there pretty easily justifies having it. I don't feel like someone with PS+ Extra might feel as deterred to buy a new game like someone with Game Pass might. Like you said though, they really are kinda hard to compare because they aren't like for like things. I think this is just a case where Sony has the healthier strategy, but it's not quite as loud and bombastic as Game Pass.

@NEStalgia
Ok don’t totally agree.
But then if you are a trillion dollar business with analysts etc, you should know what you have to do and about humanity and catch that train and learn and do better.
It’s not totally humanity. Take Nintendo and it’s games and characters some are legends.

@Widey85 the series X is everywhere round here in the UK. Yes you may have to get it in a bundle but if you look at a few sites you will find the stores have quite a few in stock

@somnambulance
Well I hoping Redfall and Starfield are the big AAA bangers they should be.
If not Xbox studios and management have let me down and it would show me they focusing on mediocre AAA to get it on game pass.

The Redfall 60fps thing is just daft by Xbox, so I have not got my hopes up for the company’s approach to things.

@somnambulance I'm an anomaly that really doesn't care about Forza, Spiderman, Redfall, FF16 or Zelda. I've somehow always just disliked Zelda. Even when I was a kid. FFXVI just doesn't look like a me kind of game, I'm not really in the #NotMyFF camp, but at the same time I just don't really like super-fast paced action games, and I think that's what we're getting. So, really for me, Starfield is the only mega huge release this year, that I know of.

@somnambulance redfall is b tier under the radar like any arkane game. Maybe it's good maybe it's not but even in Xbox circles it's just not a heavy hitter. Ff16 just makes me mad though. It's not ff16, it's Devil of War 1. I'm sure devil of war will be a huge hit. Add a new series from square. But it's all insulting to take a new series for depressed sugar high kids and call it ff 🤬

@Dezzy70 marketing marketing marketing marketing. It's all just marketing. And then once that takes hold it's only about doing what everyone else is doing, again especially the young which is most of the market.

Playing Fortnite is the same on ps and xb. Cod is better on ps which is Microsoft's point. Fifa is the same. Madden is the same. Apex is the same. Gtav now is the same. That's what most of the market is playing. Why do they do it in on ps? Because everyone else is. Why is everyone else? Because marketing told them they should and it will make them cool.

It's really sad. But it's how it works. And I agree that's on Ms. They started strong.. Then after abk they basically stopped existing at all. They don't even promote game pass. Phil just tweets about what PS5 indie game he loves now 😂

@SplooshDmg I still don't even know gp is less healthy. Microsoft factored their own costs on 1st party to take the loss and make the platform appealing. But how many third party major games are day 1? Almost none. Mostly indies and yes that does decide winners and losers there. But idk it's unhealthy. It just means the platform is amazing for some devs and poor for others. That's not really unhealthy. The major games failing to sell well I don't think it's gp related. It does mean when a big ms game does drop everything else fails but, that's not really different than Nintendo with Zelda where indies are rushing games out to land before Zelda kills all sales.

@Sakai
Netflix isn’t exactly a direct competitor. Their games are all mobile and target the audience of… okay I’m not sure what audience netflix games is going for but it still feels different from gamepass.

@NEStalgia I draw the term unhealthy from this. Xbox is great for certain users. Kinda like you said above, the more games you play, the better Xbox becomes. Because you are squeezing value out of Game Pass. However, what does Xbox offer right now that isn't Game Pass? It's kinda limited. The driving news for Xbox right now is a merger to get games on Game Pass, and what's coming to Game Pass. I say unhealthy because it's too many eggs in one basket, and everyone else that isn't interested in GP is just sitting around waiting. It's a great platform for some. That's just not healthy imo. Not that it can't change in the future, and I think it will. But we're running out of fumes to burn. This ship needs some gas, bad.

Not surprised about the netflix stuff cause they own this IP and studio so that's that. A bit funnier is the Xbox being missing point. Could be some stuff about cloud provider competition like you guys say, netflix seems to have some interest in games. Oxenfree was an interesting title, shame I won't play 2 on Xbox, but hardly a huge miss. I did enjoy the first one, but that's it.

I guess this gives MS more justification for their acquisition strategy if more and more studios keep leaving the platform out but releasing on almost everything else. We'll see over time I guess. Would really like MS to iron out whatever is happening with SE for example, if at all possible

@SplooshDmg Maybe...but....it's a lot of eggs in one highlighted feature that is replacing marketing to a large extent, and that's a problem.

But....compare to Sony....what feature are they highlighting that's generating that much more interest? Nothing really. A few exclusive games. That's really it, and the only difference there is MS's big games are delayed while PS has some.

Put another way, if Sony were highlighting GoW, FF16, HFW all on Plus Extra day and date, they'd be singing it from the mountain tops and crushing GP which has......Ghostwire a year late and......uhm.....something....day 1....minecraft legends? Sony would earn less profit than they will otherwise but doing all that would not hurt Sony's position in any way and might only strengthen it, despite leaving some money on the table.

I don't think pointing to GP as the problem is quite right. Sony wouldn't be harmed by doing that with theirs (beyond money left on the table), so long as MS is ok with that money left on the table (they are), that's not really what their problem is. Microsoft's problem is something different. GP is the only thing they have that gives them ANY relevance in the conversation at all. And THAT is the real problem. It's not really about how GP is harming anything, it's about what harm has happened that has made GP the only thing that matters?

You're not wrong about the good and bad effect of the sub, and how some, mostly indie games (and square?) aren't interested because of it, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, as long as it's balanced by making Xbox the place for other, high quality indies, which it is. I just don't think that really connects to what the underlying problems with XB sales and public interest are.

Realistically, nothing, at all, differentiates PS from XB right now other than GP, and which selection of exclusives are available which contrary to enthusiast boards isn't that huge a driver in console sales, really. They're more or less the same box. GP is a plus for MS more than it's a negative in some areas. The ABK GP CoD news is the only thing keeping them discussed at all. Like I said to Dezzy, other than the inventory problems (which is huuuuge) ,there's not really a material reason PS should be outperforming XB right now at all. Neither platform is differentiated, really at all, from the other, if you look at the small differentiators, other than VR, or CoD special bonus content, XB actually comes out ahead in most differentiating factors. The only thing PS has that's differentiating it is simply marketing, cool factor, and public perception of being the popular one. That's really all they're doing different.

And sadly that's hard to change in consumer products at all, but seems even harder in the gaming space where consumers seem to be excessively image-conscious, insecure, striving for a sense of following everyone else, even by general consumer products standards. It's kind of a sad market in general. Why are we doing this?

@NEStalgia
For me Phil Spencer would be out of a job.
But then again he maybe doing exactly what the up above gang want him to do.
But just on form since the series consoles release he would out out out for me.

@SplooshDmg it works okay.

At the time of Actraiser it was the first time. I have different opinion this many years forward l. I do think it’s about money. You personally might see different facets to it but overall I think the two companies have a very complex relationship that we will never know about. However I don’t think it’s a Villan vs a hero. I think it’s cost discussion.

Furi I will always have issues with as its DLC to an existing game.

But this to me smells different. It just does.

@NEStalgia I really really want to see what MS looks like without an ABK deal going on. I really really hope the relaunch the brand. This and they way it currently is, is pathetic.

@NEStalgia All that said, though... That's just it. What is Sony REALLY doing other than kicking back and collecting their dump trucks of money? That's the problem. They've done basically everything wrong, outside of release a steady cadence of games. I think Xbox has gone all in on a strategy and somewhere along the way the duct tape and bubblegum started giving out and now they're taking on water, and I think they just have nothing to work with right now. It's just wait for ABK to close and pray.

I kinda disagree though, I think a lot differentiates PS and XB right now. You know I'm no lush for Sony 1st party games, but those games matter. If games aren't a differentiating factor in the success of the platform, then I don't know what's going on at Xbox, because they should be thriving, and they aren't. You know how resistant I was to get another PS5. I didn't want one, but now I have one, because if I didn't, I was just shooting myself in the foot. Most of the games I play on my PS5 just aren't on Xbox at all.

@mousieone I hear ya, I mean, I'm a multiplatform kinda guy, so I'm always for as many games in as many places as possible. But it just seems like that's never really going to entirely happen. There's a myriad of reasons why something misses somewhere, and we just never really know what happened, and it's frustrating.

@SplooshDmg of course is. Like I said this smells different.

That said I don’t think games of this size skipping a platform should be as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. Like people made about the Pixel remasters are comprised of a few people that care, but it’s mostly people upset about FF16. And the reality is they can’t see that.

Regardless of either of our feelings, people are going to make a big deal about this most likely won’t play this game. I mean a trending hashtags. I think we can both agree that’s a bit extreme for game that will be lucky to sell 500k copies.

@mousieone I predict you'll have a PS5 by 2024.

Yeah...I do think they'll try a soft re-launch at some point, they'll swing hard, they'll try hard, they'll look a little better, but I just don't think this can be totally recovered this gen. Not with a total marketshare collapse in year 3 of a 7-10 year product. The 2:1 split and the very bad decision to go silent during ABK...I don't think the momentum can come back. I think it's back to 2017/2018 X1S/X1S brand relaunch time so that NEXT next gen it'll get off to a good start. The only good news is it means they have to pander and placate people again for another 5 years. Which might be a blessing in disguise. We don't need 3 Nintendos in this market.

In some ways this highlights what a Little Deviant Jim really is. His plan was maybe never to stop the deal, just buy it enough delay to keep MS impotent long enough for them to get their hardware surge on the market and undermine them. And it worked. And that's gross.

OTOH as we write this, the first comment on Push on the article about Sony's latest multiplayer purchase is lamenting that Sony needs to buy a WRPG sudio because MS owns almost all of them. Where there's one comment there's a million not commmenting thinking the same thing. It could be that Sony does a little harm to themselves in the latter half of the gen by overcompensating and swinging too hard into multiplayer and away from single player. If they do, and if MS is doing their 2018 schtick and trying hard, it's possible some reverse erosion could happen from single player fans moving from PS to XB since PS seems 2nd half all stacked on mutiplayer and MS seems all stacked on single player.

@Dezzy70 IDK that it's all about phil. People love him, people hate him, and while the only thing he's doing is tweeting about playing games on other platforms and staying silent on XB it looks bad and even I want to slap him, and I really like the guy. But, when he came in he had a grand vision, pushed hard, and put them back on track and on the map. I don't think his enthusiasm has changed. All the fail seems to be post-abk. I do think corporate has told him to basically sit on his hands and lay low and let legal run the business. Which is shooting yourself in both feet in entertainment. Corporate isn't wrong with that being needed for their legal efforts, but.....it's very very destructive to the brand and maybe isn't what they needed to do.

Though, again, I think they banked on inventory remaining universally low. It only really changed when PS flooded the market.

No gamepass deal? Why even bother releasing on Xbox. Can't compete with gamepass so it's a waste of time and money to support the platform.

Only a matter of time before large studios and publishers start thinking that way too.

@NEStalgia I don’t know that it cannot be recovered. It really depends on Starfield. But MS has production issues. I follow Wellfare and there just aren’t as many XSX in the market. Not a cop out, they just aren’t. They are still mostly online and PS5s are in atores.

Which is an issue MS is trying to ditch Brick and Mortar altogether and that ain’t happen.

Couple that with the all hands on deck for ABK.

That said Starfield does have the potential to swing the pendulum the real question is which way.

I say this because of BotW wad Nintendo’s Starfield and rescues the brand. It’s going to depend on MS getting their act together quickly before holiday 2023.

@SplooshDmg Sony didn't really even release a steady cadence of unique games. Most of them were prior platform games and remasters. Almost nothing that needed the new console. It was just the marketing perception that they had so many more games. They literally did nothing but market a worse product better until sales success made it the better product. Plus a couple games that can be counted on one hand. And most of those that were truly platform unique tepidly sold.

"If games aren't a differentiating factor in the success of the platform, then I don't know what's going on at Xbox, because they should be thriving, and they aren't. "

That's exactly my point! The games are partially differentiating. But it's much much more amplified in the enthusiast echobox. The masses aren't even buying those games in huge volume, MS has it's own games (someday, real soon now!) it promotes. And most of the big big games on PS5 are PS4 games that people could already play on the PS4 they already owned last gen until the HFW DLC. It's not the games so much as the marketing perception of games. Even you're falling for it because it's just in your head space. They've released nearly nothing of significance you need to own a PS5 for. But everyone thinks they have. That's just the power of marketing then the herd mentality picking up from there.

Otherwise, there really ISN'T a reason for MS to fail. So why are they? All great questions. Sony, isn't just an entertainment company, they're a MEDIA company. They have hollywood experience. They KNOW how to manipulate media and public perception as a science. They're a freaking INSURANCE company for crying out lout! They sell peace of mind!

@mousieone I expect starfield will sell very well, but I also expect it will sell well over long tail sales, it won't have the big market shock effect of an FF16 or GoWR. Just my feeling of a Bethesda game and it's market reception in general, though.

I totally agree about the stock though, I made that point strongly a number of text walls above At least in the US. I'm not sure that's at all part of the issue outside the US, but in the US, yeah, you literally just can't buy an Xbox when you want one even if you really want one and PS5s are now everywhere. Xbox has lot in common with PSVR2 in that regard. Xboxes aren't even online, they're still in waves like it's 2021 just more frequent.

Wait people still shop in brick and mortar stores? WHY?

BotW isn't really what saved Nintendo. Having BotW with a new platform launch which was a hybrid handheld saved Nintendo. If Starfield launched with XSX in 2020 instead of Halo AC Valhalla it would have been a seismic shift. BotW launching on WiiU would have maybe bested Vita sales. Maybe. I'm afraid XB is slightly better than but kind of in that boat. If it's already an afterthought, Starfield will boost numbers, but not in the way a big IP at a console launch (with enough inventory) would.

Much as I absolutely detest the idea of an Xbox Series X-X and it's a slap in the fact to anyone that bought one in the first 3 years and still basically hasn't had a single 1st party major game for it yet, I kind of can't see them rebounding without a soft relaunch with new hardware that thrashes the PS5 to go with it like X1X did. And even that merely set the stage for the Series launch.

@NEStalgia
The excited voice inside my head likes to think since the release of this generation all of sudden Xbox are going to blossom, big AAA must have games. Pioneering game play and IPs etc. Basically the 360 days.
But as each year goes by nothing really happens and Microsoft become Xbox own worst enemy.

Sony and Nintendo have not done to much magical, don’t offer a full Gamepass equivalent.
Been a bit quiet at times. Sony better last year and probably Nintendo better this year.

Imagine if Sony and Nintendo really got their act together simultaneously and for about three years back to back. Xbox would be flattened.

Wow the comments today!!! Over Oxenfree 2.

With gamepass there's so many new games to play so people on xbox buy less games so developers/publishers make less games for xbox, unless micsrosoft pay for it to be on gamepass.

It's like a domino effect of gamers not buying games and developers/publishers not making games for xbox.

@NEStalgia I think the thing is, you aren't exactly wrong, but it sounds like what you are trying to peddle off as some sort of Sony trickery, is actually just the path to success in this industry. Consumers don't care if a game really needed new hardware, they just determined that it looked interesting, then they stared long and hard into the jaws of capitalism and bought it. Ghost of Sushi didn't really need to be updated, but at least there was a proper DLC and it ran considerably better on PS5. That's better than nothing, and the PS5 version was rock solid. MS could have marketed an updated Gears 5 a whole lot better, but it was just a free update. I mean, I like the free part, but there's a lot of little things MS just gave away that could have been marketed as an actual product and reason to buy the thing. MS is just terrible at marketing. But hey, at least they're sure to let us know when seven new controller colors are available for preorder.

@SplooshDmg Well, it is some sort of Sony trickery, and it also is the path to success in the industry. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. I'm mostly just lamenting how amazingly stupid the human race is and how civilization needs to be ended as fast as possible so that the people that can't figure out if they want to eat the red berry or the black prickly berry unless the guy guarding the red berry bush tells them which one they want will be eliminated from the gene pool rapidly so that in 5000 years people can compare two video games and figure out which one is good and which one is a cash grab. Is that really too much to ask?

It amazes me that the only company to get the Rolling Stones to do a commercial which is the only reason their OS literally erased all other OS's from existance until the iPhone happened manages to be so bad at marketing today.

@NEStalgia I think you’re being a bit too pessimistic.

They can pull themselves out of the hole. It’s just a lot of things have to hit right. But it has happened for others. Now if they another year like last year yeah it’s an issue.

These next few months are really critical to watch what they do.

That said I can’t understate how much this deal has taken their eye off the ball.

@NEStalgia As I've mentioned before, I have Asperger's. I'm weird, I'm rigid, I like stuff a certain way and I have been driven bananas by neurotypical normies my entire life. Mostly because everyone around me is just doing things in ways my brain just doesn't understand, and this is applicable here. I don't get why people like what they like, but they just do. It makes no sense to me why people love Spider-Man and everything Marvel, but they just do. To me it's just brain-dead fluff devoid of anything interesting whatsoever, but I don't really broadcast that, not anymore at least. I eventually just had to accept that I just don't understand the normies and why they aren't interested in talking about quantum mechanics and slice of life idol anime, and that's okay. It's made my life immeasurably simpler by not arguing with them about random arcane subjects constantly.

@mousieone I fancy myself an optimist. Reality is usually much worse than my pessimistic expectations.

If we give it the benefit of the doubt and wait till June I think we can get a sense from notE3 just how much of a plan they have and just how much they're meandering uncontrollably without a plan.

@SplooshDmg I'm really sticking to my red berry, black berry idea. Nothing about the current "normal" is logical, rational, positive evolutionary traits outside artificial constructs, nor consistent with human normal any time prior to the past 30 years. Twitter is "normal". Just let that sink in for a moment.

@NEStalgia Hey, you don't gotta convince me. You do the berries. I'm just saying, I'm not sure humans were ever really meant to have internet access, but here we are staring into this rectangular nightmare bickering about God only knows what. I'm just trying to make the best of a weird situation.

@DNortonX It makes the case that obtaining more companies shouldn't be out of the question as well.

@SplooshDmg Nothing comes close to Tears of the Kingdom for me, but between Sony and Microsoft's upcoming slate of games, Starfield is the exclusive I'm most interested in.

I finally managed to snag a decent GPU for my new rig this month, which I upgraded the other components for during the pandemic. It's now Starfield ready. I've built my last three rigs around the need to play Bethesda's newest RPGs at 60fps at launch (Skyrim, Fallout 4, and now Starfield). But Fallout 4 was so bad I quit playing it halfway and never booted it up again, which sucks, because I put hundreds of hours into Skyrim and FO3.

I want to be excited, and I'm giving them one more chance to win me over like they did with their seventh-gen games.

@Dezzy70 Interesting. Microsoft seems to be fine doing the opposite. When they obtain a company it ends up on more platforms. I don' t buy that nonsense.

@NEStalgia if you say so

@SplooshDmg you don’t see a point in Spiderman? I’d burn every copy of Madden in existence. Sports games are dumb to me and take up shelf space for precious thugs like Persona. I mean I think it’s perfectly normal not to like popular things.

@Ralizah Yeah, I'm pretty excited to see Todd taking steps back from some of the less savory changes in FO4. I mean, I liked FO4 well enough, but it's absolutely the weakest game in the ES/FO roster. I'd argue that I seriously like FO76 (post Wastelanders) more than FO4. I'm sure I'll like Starfield either way, but like you, I'm ready for some Skyrim/FO3 levels of bliss again.

@mousieone I really don't. I just do not care about Marvel/DC superheroes. I'd probably rather watch The Golden Girls than The Avengers.

I mean, I know it's perfectly normal to not like popular things, but this rabbit hole goes a whole lot deeper than just entertainment. I'm just making quick, easy examples based on hyper popular things to empathize with NES that I understand his frustrations, probably more so than most.

I don't get sports AT ALL. I had a client ask me if I watched the game last weekend, and I told him, "If I've ever watched a sporting event, I don't remember it and it was on accident." But really, I'd tell you that Marvel and football are on the same level to me. They're both just utterly silly nonsense and I hate them.

Studios/publishers know what gamers are finally starting to realise - Xbox IS gamepass. An app. And if they can’t get on, or don’t want to get on, that app, they feel there’s no point in releasing it on a console that isn’t promoted and will get very few buys on.

Xbox as a console has lost so much ground in the mindshare of casual gamers. The console gets no push. I mentioned the other week that Xbox marketing consists of a twitter page - one where they promote a new controller every week over the actual console. This, of course, got me labelled as being ‘toxic’ by fragile minds…it makes it no less true. And these things have consequences…the consequence being the console isn’t selling well, it just isn’t.
This will of course lead to not just indie studios but also AAA one’s skipping Xbox - we’ve seen this with square already. We’ve certainly seen it with last gen (games like RE4 are still coming to ps4).

MS have a decision to make. Do they want to invest marketing into clawing back console sales, getting gamers locked into an ecosystem where they’re more likely to stay subbed to gamepass.
Or do they want to focus on PC and mobile. Allowing the console to be an after thought by themselves (and thus with gamers) and hope players will sub each month with gp
When you consider that GOLD still has more subs than gp on console and pc combined after 6 years…one’s a bigger gamble than the other. Personally, I think they should start focusing some marketing on the console…

@mousieone has @Dezzy70 hacked your account? Reading your comments I can’t tell the difference 😜 by the way I agree with you.

@SplooshDmg Bettie White was WAY edgier than anything in a Marvel story.

@Ralizah Starfield is more of a JRPG than Witcher Origins: Devil of War.

@NEStalgia That's a very interesting thing that we have mentioned before but sometimes I forget. PS4 was the casual console last generation but that also means that most players only bought a couple of games and the software sales reflect that. What is important is the money spent on games and subscriptions and not the number of consoles.

@NEStalgia @SplooshDmg I think most people that frequent web boards get it. That’s kind of why we are heat seeking out the like minds we cans find on the outside.

@Fenbops a broken clock can be right once a day

Which part burning copies of Madden?

@NEStalgia I'm more of an Estelle Getty fanboy. I can only hope I get to be as edgy and cranky as Sophia one day.

@mousieone I mean, tolerable human beings are difficult to find in person. I just get on the internet and find anyone else that loves Kaname Date, and then I'm good.

@SplooshDmg I could understand getting invested in sports if you enjoy playing them, but sports CULTURE and fandom absolutely baffle me. And not in a "I don't get the appeal" sort of way, but more in a "I feel like I'm surrounded by aliens" sort of way.

Tbh, I never played Fallout 76, as I couldn't get on board with the idea of an online Fallout game. But yeah, FO4 comes out, and, like, despite being vastly more demanding, it doesn't really look all that much better than the previous games, and power armor is suddenly mecha that requires power, and everyone wants you to run around crafting stuff all the time, and I just couldn't do it, man.

I know there's some crafting in Starfield, but I'm hoping it's less intrusive and more intuitive.

@DNortonX But what about the decade plus time of Microsoft sitting there doing basically nothing with exclusives, putting themselves in this position?

I'm not saying stuff like this is right for Xbox fans, but like others have said, this particular instance is likely because Netflix owns them and xCloud is a competitor.

@Ralizah Yeah, sports culture is crazy to me. Every time WVU wins a football game here, there's sure to be couches set on fire. It's like... Bizarre.

FO76 has honestly turned into a decently solid game. It's always online, but you can play all the quests solo, and they're still half decent FO quests with some interesting storylines. It's far from Bethesda's best work, but for really serious FO fans, it's easy to recommend these days.

I HATE FO4 POWER ARMOR. Oh. My. God. I hate it. That was something I hated so much in FO76. There was a power plant that was a pvp target and you could charge power cores at it. You'd spend all this time taking over the plant and powering it up, then someone would just knock you off and start charging their cores. Absolutely maddening stuff.

Crafting was somehow better in FO76. Building structures had a lot more purpose. It was actually kinda fun even. I built some pretty massive structures and I enjoyed it. But I basically never even fooled with it in FO4. It just felt so.. tacked on to that game. The weapon and armor crafting felt a lot better too, because in ways FO76 really felt more like a survival game. I think in some ways it actually had the best wasteland vibe of any FO because you really had to scrounge and find basically everything you needed.

@SplooshDmg I can’t play Judgment in English because I only hear Kaname

@Ralizah I’d rather do most things than watch sports ._. I can’t fathom why people play video games about them. I can understand going to an event because of the spectacle but watching on a screen … I don’t get it.

@mousieone As weird as it sounds, I'd probably be more inclined to play a sports game than actually play sports or watch sports. I mean, at least Madden is a bad video game, and bad video games I guess are still better than no video games. Now if we're talking like, Mario Tennis, I'm totally in.

@SplooshDmg I modded out the energy requirements for the power cores pretty quickly, but I just kept finding aspects of the game I wanted to change via mods, and eventually realized I'd destroyed all semblance of game balance in the process. At that point, you have to ask yourself hard questions about why you're even playing the game in the first place.

Skyrim was heavily modded as well, but I wasn't messing with the core mechanics and balancing of the game, so it turned out fine. It was mostly adding on extreme content to accompany my evil edgelord of a character, anyway. Like, the game allows you to purchase a torture chamber, but doesn't give you all that much to do in it.

@NEStalgia Yoshi-P would agree. He feels very uncomfortable with 'Japanese-ness' being identified with his games, and calling something a JRPG is taken as a slur. If you think about it from that direction, Final Fantasy XVI really is the perfect Playstation exclusive.

@mousieone Watching sports, in any capacity, confuses me. If you don't have some sort of vested interest in one side winning (via betting, being related to someone on the team, etc.), why would you care who wins at all? As far as I can tell, the proper response is to tribalistically cheer for whichever team is representing your state, college, etc., but it's not like you're personally getting anything out of it.

There's also so much downtime in professional sports. Particularly football. Every time the channel would flash past an event, the players would all just be standing around, and announcers would talk in the background. I'd watch for a moment, grow deeply bored, and change the channel. Turn it back an hour later, and the players are in a different position on the field, still just standing around not doing anything. I made the joke to a sports-appreciating family member that it was like an activity populated entirely by Weeping Angels, who would do stuff when you happened to be on another station, but they didn't appreciate what I was trying to say.

@SplooshDmg @mousieone and im sure theres plenty of people that think the same way about video games. zoomers and boomers alike.

@nomither6 I mean, I would certainly think so. Doug Stanhope kinda said it best though. "Anything I don't understand or can't do is stupid".

It is odd. But then again what's stopping these games being on PS+ at some point. Whether Essential tier or Extra tier. Extra tier is downloads yes but cloud is an option for games besides PS3 isn't it?

The shooter/racing/sports side aside that Xbox gets usually known for. But is it really that low of a lower userbase. Sure Xbox One was half PS4 but for Series X/S it's not that bad of a gap there. Yes I know many people have a Series S as an easy machine for Gamepass, or the COD/Sports/Fortnite machine but still high enough userbase at least that has interest in the games being available there. I mean it isn't the Wii U or Vita where mostly mobile Indie games went to it mostly or the bigger Indies.

I don't know the numbers for many of these companies games for their digital sales not counting Gamepass playing hours/whatever deals they went with.

But a few bigger game examples. I mean did anyone pick up Diofield Chronicle on Xbox that's a Square Enix game that isn't a Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest (I didn't even know it went to Xbox until I saw it physical in a bargain bin and I bet people didn't buy it physical, nor do I don't for digital). Granted I hadn't checked the Xbox store for a demo I did the PS4 to play the demo there because I just assumed oh Japanese games I usually play on Switch or PS4. I know Xbox has some but I don't really hear about them as much as the Xbox OG or 360 era where I noticed more.

Valkyria Chronicles 4 I picked up on Xbox because it was cheap for $4-5 but I didn't know Sega even released it there but it's the only entry on Xbox, not even the Remaster was ported to Xbox One only PS4/Switch. Some Japanese publishers will be particular it isn't the same with 360 where they were willing to as much.

I assume other examples of Japanese third party published games exist. For Indies though eh. I mean their Indie showcases for Xbox do a good job no doubt but deals with Indies now clue there.

Western Indies yeah no idea there. The Netflix side does seem likely but otherwise not sure. Maybe the Oxenfree Gamepass numbers didn't do it much. Maybe it's a development time thing so can't for Xbox. Maybe it's marketing/didn't make a deal/meeting with Microsoft yet. Who knows. Is it a crowded time for Xbox though Gamepass releases or otherwise when Oxenfree 2 comes out or these other games?

Gamepass is what it is but I think it's the mentality of gamers for sure there. Digital may be one thing but Gamepass has quite the power for sure because it's games offered, because they cycle. Because of it being a deal.

I don't know others like me that only buy physical Xbox One games.

I'm just thinking out loud though nothing more.

All this reminds me of the Sega conversations back in the day. It was never about the hardware....Sega just didn't have the compelling software and the same can be said of Xbox.

Now Xbox has much deeper pockets and more studio's but I cannot name one team/developer and think yeah..... That is going to be awesome ! Love Arcane but yeah. Bethesda ? maybe in 6 months or so it will run properly. Tango ? Well Hifi was spectacular so their pointing in the right direction and Ghost Wire happens. 343 ? Moving on to Ninja Theory, boy Im hopeful for 2 in a row.

Has anyone else noticed almost all Xbox games being made are 1st person rpg/shooters ? Wonder why most of Sony/Nintendo popular Ip are all 3rd person adventure/platformer/rpg ?

so when a game like vampire survivors(that has had critical acclaim) does not come to playstation, no one cares. but when xbox doesnt get a game i have never heard of, the sky is falling. sony does not need to do PR when the media does it for them.

Spent about an hour searching for the SF6 demo that was supposedly released this afternoon. Found out it comes to PS 4/20 and does not come to Xbox and Steam until 4/26.

@NorthwestEagle I apologize should have been clear at the end of Sega.

For sure Nintendo had 3rd party developers by the short hairs. What turned it around for Sega was compelling software and slick advertising. Those things will help Xbox now

@The_Pixel_King what about PC? Everything comes to that, well except Nintendo stuff.

@Clankylad its console wars shenanigans. Just people trying to justify their purchase of an overpriced device.

@NorthwestEagle So Nintendo has always been evil, not just now 😉.

@fizban3332 Sony has just acquired a new studio, Firewalk, to make online multiplayer games. Sony has raised game prices on PC. Sony fans are so worried about anything Xbox that they probably don't even know this yet

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/playstation-has-significantly-increased-steam-game-prices-in-some-countries/

@DNortonX I'd argue the opposite. It looks like Xbox is cementing its library of western RPGs and shooters.

The reason half of these games don't come out on the Xbox is because of the perceived notion that there is no market for them. It goes back generations: Microsoft made a good push for Japanese exclusives on the 360 with games like Blue Dragon and Tales of Vesperia and they fell flat.

Even a game like Hi-Fi Rush seems to have failed to break even (although I don't see how a Gamepass title can when its 'free with the sub') Look at the E3 Conference from last year: shooters, zombie titles and horror games. Nothing aimed at families and precious few JRPGs.

Now it might be that if more games did come out they would sell and that would then continue a positive cycle but it remains that they don't and there isn't.

Microsoft could turn this around: The Series S is a lovely little box. Get some devs on some 6-month ports of older titles like Motorcross Mayhem or Doritos Crash Course and bundle them with the console and 2 controllers for the same $249 price and see if it makes a dent.

@Ralizah LOL. I truly and completely do not understand what the love affair is with YoshiP. People on push tried to explain it to me when I asked. The answers I got were thoughtful but basically still came down to "I heart FF 14", and their reasons for their high praise of him really don't connect at all with what I've seen of him, and in the process of defending him they actually corrected my understanding that the things I didn't blame him for in FF14 because it wasn't even his design, actually are his fault.....?

His anti-Japanese position is bizarre. He's basically an America-phile (what's the version of "weeb" that means a Japanese person unhealthily obsessed with the US?) He lived and worked here for a time with western studios, and MMOs is basically his life's work. Even if 16 is a good game for an action game, I don't know how a guy that's really dedicated to western MMOs even came to work on an action game at all.

Like, I get people liking DMC16 as a new DMC game if they're big DMC fans, but I don't get the "it's YoshiP so it has to be amazing" phenomenon. If we take the guys behind WoW and have them make Bayonetta 4 should we hype? He just doesn't have the credentials to warrant it even if the game is a really great DMC game. But it makes you wonder why he's not just working at Platinum or Capcom rather than Square, co-opting FF and making it DMC game he wanted to.....because his goal is growing MMOs in Japan..... ?

@NEStalgia He does indeed give me strong westaboo vibes. I'll almost be disappointed if he doesn't wear a cowboy hat and interject random English words into his otherwise fluent string of Japanese in his personal life.

Well, Platinum and Capcom know what they want their games to be. They don't need to wildly flail around and change the genre of their flagship series with new entries.

Some amount of change is expected from entry to entry in Final Fantasy. Some are more story-heavy, some are more linear, etc. But they all feel like JRPGs. Yet people who just want [insert brand name] to succeed feel the need to gaslight naysayers and act like mainline single-player Final Fantasy titles being grimdark character action games is within the expected level of change for this series.

At least the FF7 Remake series is still a thing.

I'll be taking note of who is doing that, so I know which games never to buy.

@Banjo- I think it should be obvious by now how Sony is not our friend, they're a massive and greedy corporation, and the more they get their way, the more anti-consumer they are going to get, and the more anti-consumer the gaming industry is going to become.

This is why competition is vital, it keeps everyone in check, prevents them from exploiting everyone.

@Sakai facts! No lies spoken here! If I could give an award I would.🏆

@JayJ I totally agree.

@Ralizah westaboo! Perfect! Yeah that seems to be him. He talked long ago about how his love of wow and swtor and how his motivation was to make those kinds of games popular in Japan like in the west. He's literally the equal opposite of the weeb devs who try to make authentic jrpgs in Cleveland.

I'm more excited about sakagichis new apple arcade game than 16, and I don't even have an iOs device or arcade sub.

What I really don't understand is WHY people are so obsessed with the brand name succeeding even if it has to become a baseball game to do it. It's like they don't actually like the games they just like the brand. It's the weirdest phenomenon. If the brand doesn't represent anything particular what's to even be attached to? You don't see mother 3 fans saying "just give us a linear grimdark hack and slash and call it Mother 4 and we'll be happy if it's in the npd charts!". That's not going to happen. But with ff, that's the consensus.

@RadioHedgeFund "shooters, zombie titles and horror games. Nothing aimed at families"

I honestly read that and just assumed you were taking about Sony until I saw it was Xbox. I think that's the sorry state of the whole industry right now really.. Sony gets other games just because the market is so huge there's enough customers in the woodwork, but shooter, zombie, horror, zoom calls with guns is really all that matters across the whole industry now.

Not a game that matters. Let the games that don't matter stay on the sub-par consoles that don't matter. (Wipes hands of dirt)

@Dezzy70 nah. You're off base, bigtime.

@KilloWertz that’s so true to be fair

@NEStalgia The 2 biggest games of this year will be Final Fantasy XVI and Zelda. Starfield looks great but its on Gamepass so won't actually 'sell' any copies.

@RadioHedgeFund The two biggest games of the year will be two of either Call of Duty, MK8D, Fortnite, GTAVO, Apex, Minecraft, EA Football, or NBA, or the outside chance of Spiderman because it's mainstream mass media.

Zelda and XVI will well a lot of copies, they'll be talked about most by internet enthusiasts as the biggest games of the year, but they won't be the actual biggest games of the year by sales. Though I don't think Starfield gets removed from the significance factor simply due to unit sales due to GP. It will be dominating conversation as well, but a Bethesda game, despite the virility of Skyrim isn't the same mass market seller as a Marvel hero, the BotW sequel on the #1 hardware platform, or the big shooters. XVI will sell huge at launch, the marketing has ensured it, but I don't think it has quite the legs that Spiderman or Zelda have, let alone the big shooters. Remember Bethesda's biggest market is and always has been PC, so it's really a whole other kind of market.