Sony CFO Says That Game Pass-Style Launches Would Cause Exclusives To 'Deteriorate'

Well, they also said a subscription service wasn't sustainable and yet here we are. So who knows, only time will tell.

Without getting into a console war, statements like this just come across as daft. Xbox has launched very good games into its service. PlayStation makes very good games too but I still think the £70 a pop for their exclusives is not sustainable either. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer for the game pass model.
It's just two different approaches, both have pros and cons and both could learn from each other.
End of the day, I'd rather have the 1st party exclusives at launch into a subscription service than have to fork out £70 each and every time at launch... I know which methodology I prefer.

There's a big difference in money, Microsoft can afford to blow billions, Sony can't. Especially as sonys games cost more to make as well.

They have to justify not doing it and this is the reason they’re pushing. It’s smart in a way as they really don’t want to do it, probably for financial reasons, and they tout their games as the premium exclusives’. It’s the only way they can really one up Gamepass at the moment.

I don’t agree with it but I can see what they’re trying to do and it pleases the Sony faithful, they cheer and bow to their god everytime they bring it up. It’ll be interesting when Sony really start pushing the horrid ‘live service’ games they want so badly, there will be a drop in quality and that won’t be due to a subscription service.

Forza Horizon 5, Flight Simulator, Halo Infinite (campaign) and Psychonauts 2 would like to have a word with you. All of those showed up on many GoTY lists last year. If that’s “deteriorating” quality, I’ll take it.

BTW, Horizon Forbidden West wasn’t even in the top 10 of PSN sales last month. Elden Ring probably had a lot to do with that but just saying…

Shouldn't even matter to xbox gamers if sonys games release day one on subscription anyway especially to those who never intend to get a playstation 5, Sony do them and xbox do their own thing let them get on with it.

Also if this business model was sustainable and more profitable then selling your games then why the hell would sony not do it? Or are people suggesting sony do not like money.

But I can guarantee sony will eventually implement a strategy that involves releasing their console exclusives on pc and onto their subscription service 6 months after release, and I think that will work well for them

@ShadowofTwilight22 Halo Infinite was in many site’s top 10 lists and some named it as GoTY from like Game Informer. Honestly thought the campaign was one of the best in the series - not the best but certainly better than the last few. 87 on OpenCritic.

@ShadowofTwilight22 That’s multiplayer and has nothing to do with GamePass because it’s F2P. The campaign on GamePass was quality IMO.

What is with Sony and their obsession with exclusive games? I don't even like their exclusive games anymore.

@ShadowofTwilight22 Fair enough on multiplayer but this story is about GamePass and again MP is F2P and not part of GP.

I would really like to know how the budget for these Triple AAA games is split. E.g. development, marketing. My guess is that a huge chunk of the budget goes to marketing, with a subscription service surely less marketing would be required for each new game because they are not looking to sell the game just the service which can be advertised in different ways.

I'd say. Lets wait for the June's showcase to confirm. Just one more month.

"AAA titles on PS5, if we distribute that on subscription services we may need to shrink the investment needed for that and that will deteriorate the first-party title quality and that is our concern."

Same old old ***** excuse again and again, but it is understandable - Sony are just a small feeble Indie gaming startup company and not at all the gargantuan entity reality describes ....look forward to them increasing their game prices to £90 just to break even😂.

@PhhhCough Um. Nothing has changed. Jim said at the start of the gen first party titles were not sustainable because they wanted blockbuster games. Nothing has changed. They still think the same.

They don’t necessarily have to stick to this. No reason why (okay financial but still) Sony can’t try a game or two out as day 1 releases and just see how it goes (and also help subs). Will be more interesting in a couple of years where Xbox has more output (seriously let’s hope!) and Playstation is balls deep in its new subscription service.

@JayJ They make the best games. Period. It's the most awarded publisher. They feel they need to make that exclusive.

@ShadowofTwilight22

I call it the gamepass brainwash technique. It uses a lot of chakra (parent company's money).

@RevGaming I'd argue Nintendo make the better games, especially over the last 15-20 years their sales figures are crazy and have high metacritic scores to go with them, then playstation in seconds.

I mean may just be preference, but i played halo, psychonauts and both were very underwhelming and halo has its half finished aspects ongoing issues

@ShadowofTwilight22 I couldn't agree more, I know people who own xbox's who refuse to buy new big third party releases just beacsue they are holding out for it to hit gamepass but 9/10 they don't come to gamepass so they are missing out on great games and the developer is missing out on money. And I think this is why the majority of third party games are selling better on playstation.

@ShadowofTwilight22 "Also, lets not pretend that every IP has had smash hits in quality cause we both know Gears 5 and Halo Infinite are not the most lauded games in their series."

I've had to point out the problem with this logic over on Push.

Halo Infinite is rated higher than Halo 4 and 5 by fans and critics, and Gears 5 is rated equally to Gears 4 by critics and higher by fans.

Now, both games still have their issues, but these issues were present in 2015 and 2016, before the launch of GP, and in fact, the quality seems to have gone up. So trying to blame the issues on GP is dishonest.

"Forza Horizon has had consistent quality"

And this right here is a clue. Forza has had a consistent developer. Halo and Gears have both had new devs. If you compare Gears 5 and Halo Infinite to their original trilogies, then yeah, you are going to see a problem, but within their current devs, their quality has been far more consistent. And again, improved slightly.

The problems of Gears 5 and Infinite are caused by their dev, not GP.

Microsoft treats their games as services, which by releasing them on Game Pass they can analyze usage over time and define end-of-life on a per-product basis. Sony on the other hand treats their games as a complete package. It’s difficult to shift, which can be seen in the release of Gran Turismo where the dev tried to go a different direction.

I think the Game Pass model has a lot of potential, but I also see an eventual consolidation if all developers and platforms start their own equivalent service. It would be a repeat of the cable and streaming wars where we see heavy consolidation, but most developers don’t release enough new content annually to justify having a dedicated game pass (I.e: EA, Ubisoft).

@ShadowofTwilight22

Mjm. Average will be great. Give it time. Some people will wake up from the effect.

"I am tired of ms nickling and diming for everything just because the game is on gamepass, I am going back to the other platform"

It’s an interesting point but I think Sony would be better sorting out their own house right now. I haven’t had access to so many superb, high quality games as I had had since owning a Series S and mainly thanks to Game Pass. I just don’t buy the idea that it in any way reduces quality. In fact it does the opposite.

Sony can do what they want but right now I have more than I want with Xbox and also am not having to fork out sky high prices for a lot of games.

Xbox have proven they can have a subscription service, make it work and still maintain the highest of quality and for a gamer that is absolutely spot on and what I want.

I think its perfectly ok for sony to do it their way and Microsoft to do theirs.

theres very little point in both companies being the same

@UltimateOtaku91

I am just speaking from goty awards. I saw a graph somewhere and sony had almost double the awards Nintendo had (from 2003 to 2020). You can count them on gotyblogspot site hehe. I won't do that

To their credit as much as I love me some Halo and Gears I tend to get much more excited about Playstation's games than most of Xbox's 1st party. They make great games. If putting it out on subscription is not how they want to do it then as long as the game justifies the price I see no issue paying a premium for a premium experience which more often than not Playstation does deliver.

If Xbox can afford to put it out on GP then great I'll play it that way. Both ways of doing things are perfectly valid as long as everyone gets what they need out of the deal.

People have to decide what's 'right' and/or 'sustainable' for their Business and their Business Model. Whilst Sony and Microsoft may well be in the same 'Business' of making games, their Business Model is very different.

Sony is a SALES driven company - they rely on GAME SALES to drive their Business and invest in their future products. Releasing a game into a Service on the ONLY platform (Only on Playstation) you have to generate SALES income is obviously going to have an impact on their SALES profits which would then have a knock on effect to the amount of Money they can generate to reinvest in their 'future' projects.

MS are not in that SAME business Model, they have moved from being solely reliant on Sales to a Service driven Model - yes you can still BUY the games, still buy their Console, but that's NOT the ONLY option. Game Pass is on many more devices than 'just' Xbox consoles and so has much more reach - meaning 'many' more people are accessing their ecosystem, using their software, their servers, sitting in their 'store' and spending money - whether its to 'keep' the game after trying, buying DLC/MTX's etc or buying other games (not in Game Pass) because you are in their 'ecosystem'.

Sony can't do that - its a 'limited' system - limited to the number of PS5's they sell - which is currently less than MS has GP subscribers - let alone the various platforms that Xbox is on. You don't 'need' a Series S/X to play MSFS, its on EVERY platform apart from Switch/Playstation and only requires a Game Pass subscription to play.

Because its a 'Different' Business model its a different proposition to MS. Games are NOT sale dependent on its 'success' based on costs to develop, its dependent on Player engagement and 'engagement' is via Purchase OR Subscription, it Still needs to be a GREAT game to get Players to engage. Great games can fail because they don't SELL enough for the Publishers to convince them to make a sequel. Even award winning games can 'fail' to cover costs - especially if you expect people to pay £70 upfront for it. Returnal didn't sell 'well' for example - perhaps because the £70 was off-putting and didn't do enough to convince people it was 'worth' it.

Point is, just because one Company feels that 'copying' anothers service would be detrimental to their Business, that doesn't mean that its going to be Detrimental for ALL. If MS doesn't make 'great' games, there is little reason to have Game Pass or be invested in their ecosystem. I'm sure FH5 was a massive success for MS with 20m players - whether the game 'sold' less than FH4 or not as a result. The fact is, it encourages people to become part of their Ecosystem and pay for their services. Sony's model is heavily reliant on Sales and if they don't 'sell' well, regardless of how good/bad they are, that has a big knock on effect so it stands to reason they think a 'drop' in sales would give them 'less' money (especially as Platform Holder, Retailer and Publisher) to re-invest in their future projects.

Microsoft had the best average of any publisher on Metacritic last year. Yeah, GamePass is really hurting quality.

https://www.techspot.com/amp/news/93725-microsoft-tops-metacritic-game-publisher-rankings-2021.html

Ultimately, Sony and Xbox (and Nintendo) make different games. I really enjoyed Halo Infinites campaign. I went through it twice including on Legendary and am very much looking forward to any campaign DLC they might add (I'm not interested in the multiplayer, and have not touched it at all).

I have also played through Returnal, Demon Souls and Horizon Forbidden West on my PS5 (indeed, those are the only games I have played on my PS5 despite owning it since launch).

If Halo Infinite is held up as the premium release on the Xbox this generation, then I would argue that HFW is that for the PS5. In my opinion, as much as I enjoyed Halo (and I really did) it is not on the same level, scale or scope as HFW. They are two very different beasts, but the likes of HFW is what Sony excels at.

However, what I would add is that Xbox (in terms of the Games Pass) offers far, far more variety, with many Day One releases and plenty to entertain. Whether Xbox would ever invest the levels of cash that Sony do in their first party releases, and then put it out Day One on to the Games Pass remains to be seen.

As it stands, with the way Sony are doing their version of the Games Pass, I won't be investing in it, and instead will just be buying the huge exclusives they do release as and when they come out. Thus far I've only bought 3 games this generation on the PS5, and the next one is likely to be God of War Ragnarök. For me, 3 games in 19 months to date, is likely a more affordable way of gaming on the PS5 than joining their subscription service (and anyway, I'm too impatient to wait 6 months in the hope they might release their big exclusives in their Games Pass)...

@Richnj I appreciated your take on the Sony site 🙂 it’s unfortunate that some fans just can’t shake the idea that Gamepass can sustain itself year over year with great releases. I believe most Sony fans know and respect this, it’s that some, erm, struggle with their bias against competitors. It’s a superiority mindset that stubbornly maintains Sony > Microsoft, no matter what the results are. I suppose there’s no arguing there, sadly. Not a problem for me as I love both and enjoy having two completely unique gaming options between them as a consumer 🙂

It's a myth that PlayStation exclusives are superior.... unfortunately I fell for the hype after 2 generations of hearing how superior they are....been pretty underhelmed by the exclusives I've tried on the ps5 and PS4.....

They have good games but nothing a step ahead of Xbox like the fanboys pretend ....been massively underhelmed by horizon and Ratchet and Clank is pretty but nothing remarkable....even Spiderman which I looked forward to the most doesn't hold a candle to the Arkham games...I'm hoping Spiderman 2 is a step up...I haven't tried god of war yet but I have a feeling I will be underhelmed by that aswell....really is true for alot of their games they might have okay stories and nice cut scenes but the gameplay is pretty dull....I loved the last of us when i started it, i was like wow the hype was real but then the gameplay for boring and repetitive very fast

The ones I've enjoyed the most are Death Stranding, Returnal and Deathloop...but again none of which are worth getting a console for if you already own an series x

@StylesT And Deathloop will be coming to Xbox (on GamePass) later this year.

@ShadowofTwilight22 "Why is the only that has been developed for Game Pass in mind the only one that has multiplayer so bad that the devs have to constantly put out apologies or roadmaps?"

Because they are trying to undo the damage from Halo 4 and 5.

People forget this, or just missed it, but Halo 4 and 5 were absolutely panned for their MP by the community. Halo 5 was missing BTB, forge and split screen, had only around 3 gametypes. Halo 4 bled players and Halo 5 had a really small community in comparison to any other Halo (hence why you see Halo infinite going f2p to help attract players).

And Halo MCC was an absolute unplayable mess. 343i's response to that was to give a quick apology and to pretend like it was fixed.

All this created massive backlash from the community, and one of the biggest issues was their lack of communication with the community. They bought in Ske7ch back in 2016 to try to help the community feel better about that. The community has been really upset about the way they operate, and they continue to do this with Halo Infinite, so it too is bleeding players. So, I'm not surprised 343i are trying to appeal to the players through apologies.

This is just the dirty war Sony likes to play. I don't remember Microsoft or Nintendo talking about the ***** service PS Plus is.

@StylesT only thing I disagree with here is Spiderman. It’s the best superhero game I’ve ever played, and probably a bit above the Arkham games. But that’s me 🙂

Otherwise I think you’re right on. The PS4 gen was really solid but I am tired of hearing that it’s god tier or that it has the best exclusives. I thought some were great, and some were… fine, but nothing special. I just don’t understand the bonkers mentality for games like Zero Dawn and Days Gone.

Sorry you feel you were a little duped, hype can be deceptive.

I would say you should give GoW a try, you may fall in love with it! Just a thought.

Quality goes down ? Have they not played psychonaughts 2

Complete toss what they actually mean is we can't afford it at the moment but will later then the fans will laud it as the greatest thing ever and not a developer killing pile of rip off like game pass

Like ps fans used to say we don't want backwards compatible we don't want to play old games ....Sony releasing old games on spartacus woohoooo

Game pass is rubbish I want to own my games ......Sony streaming games oh yes amazing

Vrr is ***** anyway.......Sony released vrr great Ive been waiting for this

Not hard to see who the fanboys get Thier bs from

@ShadowofTwilight22 "So it's more studio incompetence"

Yes.

MS built studios are cursed (for a lack of a better explaination).

I enjoy Sony games but they honesty get a bit samey with the whole third person adventure thing. I’m happy with both systems. Just strongly disagree with the assessment that Sony’s games are massively better then Microsoft’s.

@Enriesto couldn't agree with you more. It's sad to see those so called fanboys still exist nowadays. Instead of being a fan of gaming they feel the urge to make unwarranted fun of the plastic box they don't own, like I see from some people on this topic again. I still can't understand why they feel the need to do that since there is absolutely no reason to. But oh well meanwhile I'll enjoy both my Xbox and my Ps and my wife loves her switch.

Said it on pushsquare and will say it here, regardless of if it proves true or not ‘quality’ seems to be their standard go-to for fear mongering their most faithful (the early adopters, the ones that will buy into new subscriptions)…it’s the same tactic used for increasing the price of their games to £70 when other platforms didn’t. Charging £10 for upgrades.
I suspect they’ll use the same ‘quality’ statement to fan the flames when ps5 games come to pc day 1… it will be interesting to see if the same people defend it then.

It may well be the reason. Time will tell. And if they’re pressured into releasing games day 1 on a sub we’ll see what the new narration is. And we’ll see how much they’ll charge for all the live service games they’re currently working on as one would assume they won’t be f2p if quality is priority

@uptownsoul I’m not saying that Sony needs to release day and date on their service. That’s their call. I’m just disagreeing with those who think MS putting games on GamePass has led to less quality output. Metacritic last year alone shows you that isn’t the case.

I actually agree with the sentiment that Microsoft has a bigger pocketbook to put their games on GamePass. That said Sony might want to experiment with their service by putting something exclusive on it, even if it isn’t one of their bigger games like God of War Ragnarok, just to see how it goes.

Sony is just echoing what their fanboys have been saying about GamePass and using it in their favor. Increasing the price of their games because of it's "premium" quality, refusing to put their exclusives day and date on their subscription service, locking features such as backwards compatibility behind a paywall. It's like every pro-consumer move Xbox does, Sony will do the opposite because their fanboys are encouraging them to do so.

Only thing that will "deteriorate" is the big money, which sony squeeze out from the gamers.

@ShadowofTwilight22 As a fan of both, I fail to see how Psychonauts 2 is "less" of a AAA blockbuster than, say Ratchet & Clank. Is it all about the visuals and art style? Are we really down to want to pay significantly more money merely for vfx? Both games are similar in length, master their controls and strengths equally well, have great level design. Psychonauts takes more risks in gameplay with more variety while R&C sticks pretty much with pew-pew-pew. I like them both, and R&C certainly spent more money purely on visuals, but is that what really differentiates the value of a video game is how good a tech demo for raw rendering power it is? R&C is pretty, but I wouldn't rate it above Psychonauts 2, or worth more money purely based on visual excess.

@BartoxTharglod I get your point but I don't think it's that black and white. Simple example returnal and miles morales are coming to playstation plus extra. Those are games I usually don't buy, but Im gonna subscribe to playstation plus extra to try them out. Now Sony will get money from me for just trying those games which I might like and buy including dlc, money which they wouldn't have gotten otherwise . I also bought games that I played on gamepass as well since I want to "own" them or want the full package including dlc. And all those bought games are extra money above the gamepass subscription money.
Sure there are people who don't buy games anymore since they don't have the time or money to play games outside of gamepass, but there also a lot of people who still buy those games even when they are in gamepass

I absolutely get this. We all know that game pass does not operate at a profit, but as MS has the magic money trees, they dont care and we all get a sweet deal.
Sony however, need to make a profit, so if they are going to invest in big AAA titles, they need to sell them so they can reinvest and make more. Its an older model, but its very sucessful and imo has delivered some great memorable titles in the last few years, so its still delivering the goods.

With the investments ms is making we will see in the next few years if this model will produce more big AAA titles of similar quality, or if the ambition gets dialled down by the distribution method. Im willing to bet the experienced devteams they have bought are not looking to scale back, and ms have no cash worries, so im betting times ahead are looking good.

As someone who plays all platforms though, I'm glad the two corps have different stratagies as it feels like im spread betting 😊

.. and to person asking 'why they are copying gamepass then?',
PS now was doing it years before gamepass, gamepass just did it better!

@PhhhCough Microsoft sustains itself through its other business ventures like windows so they can afford to lose money on gamepass till they get enough subscribers to make it profitable

Would it though?

"exclusive to gamepasss" just means you need to have an xbox series s/x or better

@MiGke do you know that gamepass is making a profit or are you just assuming it is

Looks like Sony is going to deteriorate hahahaha

@Would_you_kindly here is a direct quote from Phill Spencer

I know there are a lot of people that like to write, 'We're burning cash right now for some future pot of gold at the end.' No. Game Pass is very, very sustainable right now as it sits and continues to grow.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/phil-spencer-says-game-pass-is-sustainable-not-burning-cash/1100-6498057/?ftag=CAD-01-10abi2f

So best anyone can do is pretend he is lying, but he is very clear that Game Pass is not but burning cash. I personally find his quote carries more weight than a random platform fan’s skepticism.

@Tharsman where does he mention profit in that quote ? Of course it's sustainable when it's being funded by a corporation as large as Microsoft

@MiGke well yeah Microsoft is looking at it as a long term investment thing that's why it makes sense for Microsoft because they have more than enough money to support it companies like Sony & Nintendo however are much smaller in comparison & depend on the money they make from their gaming divisions

Spot the Fanboys - it isn't hard!!!

MS have stated that Game Pass is doing very well, a Success and Sustainable despite spending 8bn on Bethesda and going to spend $70bn on A/B and putting ALL their games into Game Pass.

As I said, Sony only has 1 platform and their whole Business model is SALES based, making you think that their products are somehow 'superior' than others so 'worth' paying more. Just like their TV's are 'overpriced' for what they offer, but hey they 'look' pretty!!!

Stick Spider-Man mechanics in an AC game and you basically have Spider-Man by Insomniac - towers to unlock the Map, collectables, repetitive side missions and puzzles etc with combat straight out of Activisions Spider-Man 2 - albeit with better visuals and improvements the more powerful Hardware allows.

I enjoy PS5 exclusives, I enjoy Xbox games, I also enjoy 3rd Party games too and MUCH prefer the Tomb Raider reboot trilogy to the Uncharted (and Last of Us) games, more depth just for a start.

Plsaystation Fanboys can't get their head around the fact that MS aren't Sony, don't rely on making you think their games are 'superior' because they look great so you 'buy' their Hardware and then charge you MORE to play a game that's no better and cost no more to make than any other games.

The Reason Days Gone 2 was cancelled was because of Metacritic - they can't 'sell' you on the 'best' games, get you spend £70 on something if its less than 85 on metacritic.

As I said, Sony rely on ONE platform and SALES - its their 'entire' business model - so saying its NOT sustainable for them is 'understandable' and to stop FANBOYS from going on about Day 1 releases, threaten that the Quality would have to drop.

Its clear that Xbox are sustaining their Game Pass, expanding their collection of Studios to increase the variety of Games ALL coming to Game Pass - and EVERY 1st Party Game - inc those released on PS that were polished and/or expanded on (in the case of Psychonauts 2 which was able to add more levels) by MS money.

That very narrow minded 'Console' Fanboy mentality is a Joke. MS are NOT reliant on building up a 'Console' to determine how 'successful' or Sustainable your Service can be. The MOST R&C can sell is not quite 20m (if Sony's figures are true - but who knows how many are in peoples hands because 'Sales' just mean those bought by 'suppliers' to Stores, not actual Store sales). MS with Game Pass has NO ceiling -its available on EVERY device. In fact, the ONLY ones that 'can't' play MSFS, FH5 etc is those who ONLY play on Playstation/Switch - although they probably have a Mobile or PC.

Its also not as if those games aren't Sold on PC/Console DAY 1 for anyone who 'prefers' not to subscribe. If less than 1m at £70 can be a 'success' for Sony on their PS5 for Returnal, MS could sell 5m on PC/Console and the other 15m that played FH5 maybe were Game Pass - but 15m paying $10 to play is still $150m revenue - and if they keep playing for 2-3 months, that's $300-450m coming in - plus they don't have to pay to release on their platform, don't have to pay for Physical manufacturing and distribution, get that 30% as 'retailer', get Publisher money and yet its losing money and having to be subsidised (according to Console Fanboys!!)

@Would_you_kindly he stated they are not burning cash. No, it's not sustainable because of MS throwing cash at it, the service itself is sustainable. These are the kind of statements they can't lie about, not even mislead, not because of us, but because of investors. That can easily lead to a lawsuit.

BTW, Nintendo might not be doing the same, but they are now doing the opposite. Microsoft's Game Pass tends to add games day one to game pass, but not DLC. DLC rarely gets into Game Pass.

Nintendo Switch Online Expansion service does the opposite, it adds their DLC day one. This is exceptionally interesting given that games go down in price all the time, even months after launch, but DLC is way less likely to go down, yet here is Nintendo making DLC available day one on their subscription service. Conceptually not that different from Game Pass, even when it's quite different.

@ShadowofTwilight22 The source of financial backing or total amount spent on development doesn't determine the material quality of the final product. Otherwise Avengers would be at the heights of reception 😂 What specifically, makes R&C Rift allegedly superior to Psychonauts2? Just visual effects/tech demo qualities?

Not a knock on R&C, I love the series, though aspects of Rift slightly disappointed, but I just don't see anything beyond vfx that separates it at better or worse in any way.

@RevGaming Totally disagree, I got every noteworthy game of theirs over the PS4 gen and I thought Sony was about as overrated as it gets. I guess it's great if you're the type of person who loves cinematics and games that feel like movies though.

@Tharsman why did they try to double the price of Xbox live gold if they make so much money from gamepass

@JayJ

Where have I've seen that comment before...

So I'm guessing you don't like heavy story based games like RPGs, JRPGs and Rockstar games. Everyone has their preference.

Anyways. You asked why they are so protective and I answered.

@MiGke

Hope sells, doesn't it?

Lets just wait one more month for the showcase and we can put most of these discussions to rest. If we see mass appeal blockbuster high end games during the showcase, the pro-gamepass crew will be right. If not, a lot of people here are wrong.

"While we understand that the financial aspect of launching AAA games onto a service can't be understated, Microsoft is continually proving that the model works, at least for Xbox."

Yep, just like Man City proving that spending unlimited amounts of money on players, their wages and their agents works and all Man City fans criticise other clubs for not doing the same 🤣

@awp69 it shouldn’t have been F2P that’s why it’s a mess and the GPU claims all first party exclusives launch on GPU. You are defending it by saying Xbox made a decision basically. They weren’t forced to make it F2P - also the campaign is 8 hours long. That’s what Sony mean. When you have pressures due to being on a sub service delays are a nightmare (Halo team would agree) and big long campaigns are harder to accomplish. Halo was great but it was a very much a subscription service game - that’s not a criticism that’s fact. No co-op campaign (still delayed) multiplayer stripped out and put stand alone to boost income in F2P model. Literally using Halo only confirms what Sony say. Halo is still brilliant but it’s clear it’s a very different game than if you were chasing full RRP.

@StonyKL and they still can’t get world domination and win the big European cup. Haha. It’s a great example.

And Game Pass itself doesn't necessarily need Xbox 'Exclusives' - its also offering the SAME FULL games Day1 that release on PS - Games like MLB21/22, Back 4 Blood, R6:Extraction, Plague Tale: Requiem, Back 4 Blood etc to name a few.

On top of those, you get a lot of Indies too every month and new games to the service - its NOT just about Exclusives!! Mass Appeal isn't ALWAYS important. Sony 'persists' with JRPG's which have very Niche appeal outside Japan - games like Nioh, Gravity Rush etc and even Returnal didn't have Mass Appeal. What you 'need' is enough variety of 'great' games to appeal across a broad Spectrum of gamers - not just target Cinematic Single Player and 'hope' 3rd Parties will make up for the lack of Variety.

Just look at what they have in their line-up. Starfield was massively anticipated by MANY, even on Push Square until Bethesda joined MS. MS own (or will own) some of the Biggest Franchises in gaming History - Doom, CoD, Elder Scrolls, Minecraft, Halo etc and ALL those games are/will be on Game Pass. As soon as MS bought Bethesda, their Back Catalogue was added as buying a Publisher gives them Publishing rights on those 'old' games to put them out on Game Pass and will do the same with A/B - That will mean games like CoD, Spyro, Crash and any other 'A/B' games released on 'Xbox' but not licenced (so perhaps no James Bond and certainly not Spider-man) will all be on Game Pass.

Its NOT just Xbox Exclusives that drive Subs - its ALL Games on that Service, new and old, big/small budget. Its NOT like PS+/Gold where you get a few games every month and that's it, you have access to a large library that is adding 'new' games 'every' week...

I didn't Subscribe 'just' for Xbox First Party Exclusives, I subscribed to a Library of GREAT games, many of which I would not of played because of Price barriers. No way would I pay £20 for a Digital Only Indie regardless of how great it is.

As 'good' as games like R&C, Returnal etc - even Elden Ring, they have NOT reached as many Gamers as FH5 did in its first WEEK, or Halo: Infinite for that matter - both hitting 18m+ and Sea of Thieves has over 25m players. Sony games don't 'reach' that many players in their Lifetime and for 'Mass Appeal', you'd have to say that MS have games that 'do' reach more players than Sony can right now - regardless of 'critical' review. But then MS had the highest average Metacritic Publisher score of 2021 - and that's '5'yrs into Game Pass when EVERY game developer knows their Game is going straight into Game Pass on Day 1...

Sony's pockets are just not deep enough to put day 1 releases in their service. The rest is Marketing talk...

In many ways he is correct. Microsoft's 1st party gamepass releases are all designed around the idea of long-term engagement via service-type updates and 'seasons'. Halo Infinite's campaign was fun but you stick around for the multiplayer; Sea of Thieves continues to evolve; Forza Horizon is full of weekly playlist rotations and literal season changes. This is all to facilitate continued subscriptions.

This doesn't make them bad games. I certainly enjoy them all! But for PlayStation gamers who have been on-top for the last generation because Sony concentrated on single-player adventure games and weird curio titles it would come as a shock to see that business model changed.

@Stocksy What about Forza Horizon 5 and Flight Simulator. Both first party released during the GamePass era with 92 critic scores. Microsoft had the highest average of any publisher last year - even over Sony. I don’t buy that MS games have gotten worse due to GP. It just hasn’t happened.

@Would_you_kindly because Xbox live gold is the one that is not sustainable at its current tier price? Thought that would be obvious given the usual crap selection of XBLG games we get every month, they don’t have the budget to give the service better games.

Not sure how anyone would think that increasing the prince of Service B means Service A is losing money….

@Would_you_kindly, I think that Xbox attempted to double the price of Gold not for the revenue (though they would gladly have taken it!), but so as to push people into opting for the Games Pass instead. I think in the very near future, Gold will disappear (and it may as well for all the value it offers), and then the only option will be Games Pass or basically being an offline player. I don't think the planned price hike had anything to do with Games Pass failing or being unaffordable. It was just a heavy-handed move at persuading people that Games Pass was the better option...

@RevGaming does your post mean you don’t consider Star Field to be a mass appeal game? I mean, it’s Skyrim in space, Skyrim being one of the best selling games of all time.

I find it very odd reading through these comments of a lot of people trying to downplay PlayStation single player games and yet almost everyone here was outraged when they discovered they can't play God of War on Xbox through Nvidia Shield when that would never have been expected.

People try to say their first party games are not great or that they wouldn't deteriorate on a service plan, they might. As for being great games, winning GotY as often as they do speaks for itself.

People here try saying they're not fanboys yet the bashing here is insane. You do you, if you prefer GamePass, go for it, I don't and neither does a lot of people. If I have to pay £70 for a game I know I will enjoy I'm fine with it, I know I'm in for a treat because for me their games never disappoint. On the other hand I have yet to find anything I consider remarkable on GamePass that I would pay that kind of price for, so I believe them with this statement. You do t have to hate me for my opinion (I'm sure there will be negative comments thrown at me) nor do I have to hate you for yours. You do you, but don't bash just because you think your opinion is superior.

@MiGke

To be completely clear, I don't care about the companies money. Just a little bit when it comes how the games that are being made are affected. I only talk about this because services could drastically change how games are made. Look at the surge of free to play. Yes, more people have access to them, but none of them are as high quality or high end of those that cost $60.

and you know what? That may the reason why I think multiplayer games from last gen mostly sucked. So sorry if I'm a bit skeptical for games being more cheap to access.

What acquisitions? I really don't any company to acquire a publisher lol. That's more of a last resort kind of thing.

@Tharsman

I also said high end. I beat fallout 4 and it was outdated in a lot of areas. Starfield could be popular, but the technical stuff could be outdated. We'll see how the game looks. The in game trailer showed... well there are multiple games that look better, but that could've been improved by now.

Hellblade 2 looks phenomenal, but the first one did also look great, but it lacked combat and it was a very short game. Game's length would also be affected if it's on a service.

@Fiendish-Beaver

That's very anti consumer then. I don't want a company to decide what service should I get. Either they get my $60 per year, or they get nothing because $120 to play online is horrendous and I rather get a PC then.

There is absolutely no doubt that it was a very poor decision, @RevGaming, which is why they quickly reversed it. I strongly suspect that Gold will be gone in the not too distant future.

Going off tangent, PC gaming is not the cheap option that people think it to be. I bought a gaming PC at the beginning of the Xbox One era because my two closest mates decided Xbox was not for them at that time and decided PCs were the way to go (they've since returned to the fold for this generation though, and I bought both an Xbox One and One X on the day of release too).

So, I spent £2000 on a gaming rig, and time and time again struggled to get games to play. Settings forever proved to be a problem, even stupid things like talking to my mates on the PC was often a struggle. 4 years into my PC lifecycle, and the graphics card died. To replace it with the same or upgraded version, was over £700. I decided to just get a new PC at a cost of £2400, but that was just me. I could have done it more cheaply. Yes, games are a bit cheaper. However, I could basically have bought a new Xbox each year for the entire Xbox One generation, and still not spent as much as I did by trying to play on PC. Unless you really understand the inner workings of a PC, it can cost you a great deal to keep it up to date and working properly. Consoles are simple; switch on and play. PCs, not so much...

You guys are too stuck on scores and "publisher of the year" stuff. The same stuff always gets mentioned. It's about how budgets are linked to some quality aspects of games.

Sims are not that expensive to make, so idk why people mention those like it's a definitive fact Sony is wrong. Psychonauts and Deathloop are on PS so they could've sell well there so those should be the least mentioned. Plus Psychonauts 2 was cheap to make. I mean look at it.

What I fear are things like Tango Gameworks said. They now want to work on smaller scale games and that's not what I want from video games. I don't want to go backwards.

Halo Infinite doesn't even look as a good xbox one game. It lacks content too. Budget is important and it's tiring a lot of people not "getting" it.

Look at how free to play has changed the landscape of multiplayer games if you want a scene of how big could stuff change.

@Fiendish-Beaver

Then simple. People will buy their multiplatform games on playstation because online costs $60 vs $120 on xbox. I was going to do it anyways since PS is my platform of choice and the more traditional one.

If that happens, I hope they have A LOT of offline games from their studios. Paying $120 per year for one or two online games I MIGHT enjoy exclusively on xbox it's horrendous.

Yeah I know pc is expensive hehe.

Maybe I'll get the next switch. Idk if I have time for 3 consoles.

I'm getting on a bit (I'll be 60 next year!), @RevGaming, so I've had many different consoles. Indeed, my first console was an Intellivision, which I got in about 1980. I've owned every iteration of the PlayStation except the PS4 Pro (I didn't see the point as I didn't really play the PS4 that much). I've also bought every different Xbox console, including 3 different Collector's Editions. I've always preferred the Xbox over the PlayStation, mostly, I think, because of the feel of the controller; I've always found the PlayStation one to be slightly less comfortable to hold. My PS5 is purely for the big exclusives, and as with the last generation, I am unlikely to upgrade it mid-generation, as thus far, in the 19 months since the release of the PS5 I have only played 3 games on it (Returnal, Demon Souls and Horizon Forbidden West). Exclusives is what I bought the PS5 console for, so I am content with that, though I am really looking forward to God of War Ragnarök. My Series X, on the other hand, is my go to console, and though I rarely play any games from the Games Pass, I still find plenty to occupy my time...

@Fiendish-Beaver That's great. Everyone has their platform of choice. Can't wait for June's showcase. It should be their biggest one.

@Tharsman I don't think anyone really subscribes to gold for those 'free' games they subscribe solely to play multiplayer online & Microsoft wanted to double the cost of that

@Would_you_kindly but they are part of the service that cost money to run.

@Tharsman you don't need gold or ps plus to play ftp games online why should you need it to play games you've actually payed for online

It would deminish that sweet $70 a game pay day that is for sure.