Head of Xbox Phil Spencer has been talking a little more about Microsoft's decision to unleash two next-generation consoles on the world later this month in the form of the Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S.
In an interview with Spanish outlet La Vanguardia, Spencer explained that being "price conscious" was a part of Microsoft's next-gen strategy - hence the Series S - and went on to point out that "certain platforms" (clearly referencing Sony's PlayStation 5) could prove a heavy investment for casual gamers and families.
"When we thought about doing Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S, we thought about markets where price might be an important consideration for families - and the value of Game Pass.
You know, gaming can be an expensive hobby. I see certain platforms going to, in the US pricing, $70 for games. The consoles are $500 in US pricing. And I think that's a heavy investment for people who aren't every day playing videogames - kind of, the more casual player or a family that's balancing many things."
Of course, Microsoft is also pricing its Xbox Series X at $500 alongside the standard PlayStation 5 in the US, so there's not much difference there, but the Xbox Series S is significantly cheaper than both at $300.
And when you factor in the low cost of Xbox Game Pass, which will include all future Xbox Game Studios titles, the £69.99 / $69.99 price point for select PS5 first-party games certainly seems steep in comparison.
How do you feel about this? Which console represents better value? Give us your thoughts below.
Comments 62
Gamepass is turning out to be a great value proposition especially in these times. Things are only making Phil look like a great visionary and foreteller.
Well I've switched from PS5 to Series X at launch for this very reason, some of my cost saving is coincidental such as my stepson having a One S. Meaning I only have to buy 1 copy of Assassin's Creed and I already own Cyberpunk due to having the limited edition One X. So right out of the gate thats £110 less and then add to that the games I can play on Gamepass including The Medium and Scorn when that comes, where as the Sony exclusives are £70 each (apart from Miles Morales).
So altogether I'm going to be over £200 better off getting the Series X and just before Christmas as well, so it was a no brainer. For a casual gamer pairing a Series S with just Gamepass then that is going to be a lot cheaper than running a PS5
Well of course it's much more expensive to invest in a PS5. Even if you buy the digital edition for €100 less, you'll still have to buy PS5 games at €80 each with no cheaper alternative like Game Pass. It's going to be a very expensive generation for PlayStation users!
I'm also switching from ps this gen, partly because of cost and partly because I have a ps4 pro and when sony backtracked by releasing big hitters such as horizon on current gen I dont see much reason for going ps5 (at launch anyway)
I Have both a Series X and a PS5 preordered, but I'm thinking of cancelling the PS5 just because of the cost of gaming at launch.
I can't deny it : the All Access is what made me decide for all which console to start the gen with.
I'll eventually get a PS5 too, I think, but later, when it will be cheaper.
In Phil we trust. 👍🏻
I've kinda gone off subscriptions for non-video media at the minute. I only really play 1-2 games at a time so the value of paying £10/m is lost.
£70 is way too much for a game but I'd happily sink £40 on a game that will last me a few months or an older release.
This may be where the value of the PS5 is found. The latest AC game is going to cost you £50 on top of the sub on Xbox so you're not getting additional value out of it whereas on PS you're not paying for the sub so you put more time and effort into the games you do pay for.
Experience has taught me never to write Sony off.
Glad I am fortunate enough to be getting both.
Game Pass just continues to be the best deal in gaming. I have no idea how anyone could say otherwise.
I'd rather pay €70 for a game to own forever than even €1 for a month of gamepass. But I primarily game on PC, so I don't have to worry about "full" prices unless I want to.
thank god i hardly ever buy 'AAA' games at launch
@RadioHedgeFund Don't really understand the argument here. Just because you buy an Xbox doesn't mean that you're forcibly locked down to a Game Pass subscription every month. You can pick and choose when you want to subscribe to it on a monthly basis. For example, you could've subscribed in August to play games like Tell Me Why and Battletoads, then skipped September, October and November in order to play Assassin's Creed in November. Then maybe you feel like you're done with AC and then you subscribe in December in order to play The Medium. You don't have to pay for Game Pass every month, i.e. there's no "£50 on top of" anything. Not to mention that you can buy AC on Series X as well, so why would you buy another system for that?
I would definitively agree with you if you were forced to pay for Game Pass on a yearly basis, but that's not the case at all.
LOL Uncle Phil firing shots ha!! 😂😂
Microsoft should focus on trying to get more hardware stock. All this talk about the value of Series X/S + Game Pass is meaningless if you can't get the console.
Seriously, both Microsoft and Sony handled next gen preorders a lot worse than how Nintendo handled Switch preorders.
The part I don't follow with Game pass and this argument is that for most people Game pass isn't the full picture. What it means is you pay £10 a month for a load of games 90% you've never heard of before, then you have to pay £50 for all the games you want to play but aren't on Game pass.
Its a bit like Netflix for games. You get loads of stuff 90% you'd never think of watching but do because its just there, but you still rent/buy the films you really want to watch that they don't include.
It just sounds like its not as simple as "Game pass is the cheap option". Its only the cheap option if you only want the games they supply.
I'd have thought the 'casual' market would need the FIFA and CODS every year so I guess this would only work if those games are included on Game Pass when they release.
My aim for getting the series X and Game pass is to play through those games that I wouldn't normally pay for, but I'll still be buying the ones I really want to play as well. Looking at whats there now, out of 400 games available, only 6 I played this last gen (and bought them all on sale for about £10). This means 2 things really. 1 - having game pass wouldn't have saved me any money last gen, 2 - Game Pass offers me 396 games I haven't yet played for £100 a year.
The other side of this, is this Phil calling out companies that don't go the Game Pass route? If they are trying to say not to buy games at $70 because people should just use Game Pass, is that freezing out Xbox gamers to non Game Pass games in some way? I mean if ALL games were on Game Pass then that would be game set and match for Xbox.
Was a big part of my decision to jump into the Xbox ecosystem. I missed last gen due to breeding...kids take up a lot of your time and money. When i decided to get a new system it was PS5 and nothing else...didn't even know a new Xbox was launching. As the months went on and I started delving into articles and podcasts I slowly started thinking about Xbox and eventually just flipped over. A casual so game pass is perfect for me. Just search for a game and start playing for a set fee. All the games on gamepass are new to me so I'm drowning in options. I likely won't be buying any games fir a year or two. Might get a sonic game with my rewards points to play with my boys....unless the buy SEGA. I was planning on getting a used copy of Battlefront II and Doom but i no longer have to thanks to EA Play and the Zenimax deal...so if they do buy SEGA it's all because of me...i have some sort of universal power that I don't know how to control.
I agree with him. If I were him, my next strategy to support the casual market, is to offer a lot more family friendly games.
@Dijita agree and i believe he specifically mentioned them not having enough E rated games. Also a big step would be to allow you to create at least two accounts for gamepass. I don't want my kids accidentally resuming a Gears or Scorn game vs Super Lucky Tale.
I was a PS3 player until like 2012 I believe. Then I went to PC but really never settled in. I did miss the simplicity of console gaming so I went back to console gaming 2 years ago. I live in Holland and we’re pretty much a PlayStation country as Xbox is not that popular. Knew some people that had a 360 but switched to PS4 because of the whole Xbox One debacle.
I went Xbox because of game pass and because of Microsoft’s transparency regarding Xbox and everything around it. In my eyes, now because of Phil Spencer, they’re much more pro-consumer than Sony so I’ll be sticking with Xbox when the Series X releases.
Phil literally saved the whole Xbox brand.
@Kefka2589 You raise a good point, although I'm unsure whether or not Sony will actually make use of that. They've said that they are going to offer a "PS Plus Collection" for PS+ subscribers which consists of 20+ PS4 games and they seem to be adding more over time. I don't get this approach at all, they have PS Now but they're using PS+ instead. So if people want to experience both PS4 and older PS games, they'll have to pay for both PS+ and PS Now. It's not really optimal, why not just add those games to PS Now?
@Kefka2589 Well hopefully Sony will eventually bundle both PS+ and PS Now together on PS5 sort of like Game Pass Ultimate. That way PS5 users will be able to get both PS4 and older games, and Sony won't have to worry about PS4 exclusives being on PC through PS Now. Not that PC users would be happy about that, lol.
PSNow still isn't available in Australia and other countries.
It's a bit silly really.
I still prefer my method. Have patience and wait a few years for a decent discount.
I don't have to lock myself in to a subscription but also don't have to be bent over a counter to access exciting game content. Added bonus, is I don't feel rushed to finish a game in time for a new one just about to launch.
I choose the price point and time frame.
in all fairness he was always going to say that even if games had stayed at there current prices because he's always going to big up Gamepass (like he should)
@JGRockford It's to do with cloud server location. Microsoft has lots of Azure data centres all over the world and that's how they can get good quality xCloud coverage to lots of places.
If a company doesn't have enough cloud data centres spread out, some areas will have subpar coverage and so those areas generally miss out on cloud related things for example Australia's also missing out on the Switch cloud versions that were announced last week.
@Kefka2589 I'm not being forced with subscriptions just like I'm not being forced with microtransactions and battle passes. It's a business model that is beneficial to a certain style of gaming.
If I were to buy and play the games for a month, two months, three months, then stop, I lose access to those games and no longer have that money either. And if I wanted to continue playing the games I had been playing I'm once again faced with the sub vs full price issue. Even worse is now you may be paying full price for a game you've already experienced half the content. Best value is to continue paying that sub. You get locked in.
I'm not saying game pass doesn't have value, only that it only holds value for a certain type of gamer.
Honest question, are you going to buy the random month sub or are you going to keep your sub going?
It’s certainly been a factor for me. I rarely buy systems at launch. Over my 32 years of owning my own Games devices I’ve only done it 3 times. One of the issues is that everything is expensive at launch. Not just the system but the Games and Accessories.
With Series X I can justify the pre order because Game Pass will give me new games for it anyway, my existing library carries over with significant improvements to the games, and I don’t even have to buy new Controllers.
@Grumblevolcano yup yup. it’s also why Sony partnered with MS to use Azure. I’m sure when that gets into full swing; PSNow will be in Australia.
@Richnj The thing is though that your logic doesn't make sense for first-party titles. Sure they get added on Game Pass on day one, but they don't leave the service so you're never going to feel pressured to keep subscribing in order to finish the games. Major third-party titles on the other hand such as Red Dead Redemption II rarely get added on Game Pass on day one. If they were ever to be added, then it would be years later and at that point, they've already gone down so much in price that you can easily buy them for €20-30 after they've left the service. Thus you're never locked in for any type of game. Even indie games will go on sale frequently and you can just buy them at a very cheap price even after your subscription is over. Not to mention that you get a 20% discount for all games that are on Game Pass.
@Kefka2589 "Is losing access really that big an issue? Do you literally replay every single game you purchase forever and ever?"
In the last few months I've played Saints Row 4 (360) Gat out of hell (360), Halo MCC, Halo CEA (360), Dante's Inferno, Fallout 4, Mafia 2 (360), Dead Space 1 and 2. And throughout the year I've also replayed all the Bisohocks, Borderlands, Fallout and god knows what else.
So yeah, I do replay my games,
And like I said, Game pass holds value for a certain type of gamer. I'm clearly not that type.
I also have a kid, and the whole reason I've been replaying the 360 version of Halo CEA is because me and him were playing it co-op together. He was having his first Halo experience. And me and my Fiancee were playing the Saints Row games together. Games that I picked up years ago for pennies and still have access to today.
@LtSarge That's exactly the point. If I can get the games cheap off the service, then what value does the service offer me?.
The value would come in making the service my main solution to obtaining and playing games, and there's no point buying a game, even with a 20% discount, when I already have access to that game through the service.
Any game I own that is on the service inherently decreases the value of the service. Then I'm also stuck between playing the game I own indefinitely or playing a game that could be removed from the service I'm paying for on a monthly basis. Any time spent not playing games on the service is value lost.
And heaven forbid I spend an entire month or more 100% a game. Something I've done four or five months this year.
@Kefka2589 Again, like I said, I buy heavily discounted first time round. I'd get practically nothing trying to resell them
@Richnj Because you get to play the games first before buying them. Will that not save you money from making purchases that you could regret?
Let's say that you want to buy Resident Evil 7, Forza 7 and Gears 5. Each game costs €20 to buy separately, but only €10 through one month of Game Pass. Let's say that you buy all three of them and end up not liking Gears 5. You've spent €60 and wasted €20 of those because you won't be playing Gears 5 anymore. On the other hand, if you had spent €10 on Game Pass and played those three games, you would've realised that you don't like Gears 5 and saved yourself €20 from making a bad purchase. Then maybe you get to finish up Resident Evil 7 during the remainder of the month since it's only a 10 hour game. That leaves Forza 7 and since it's a long game you realise that you don't have the time left from your subscription to keep playing it, so you buy it for €20.
What did buying a month of Game Pass save you in total? €30 (€40 for two not purchased games because you didn't like the first one and you finished the second one minus €10 for the cost of 1 month Game Pass), i.e. half the amount you would've otherwise spent on three games.
So as a person that spends months playing the same games, I think that's the best way for you to get value out of Game Pass. Whenever you see that the service has games you're interested in, buy one month for €10, play all those games and then decide if you should buy them or not instead of buying them outright and risk regretting those purchases. Plus as an added bonus, you might even finish one of those games during the remainder of the month, thus you get to save even more money from not buying that game at all.
@Mckilmer I debated the same but I am a massively compulsive buyer so I chickened out and paid for both a couple of weeks ago. I have a big PS backlog anyway so I will definitely use it with the improved performance. I am hoping that having the Series X as my main will mean that by the time I come to play one of the Sony exclusives they will be on sale!
@Deadcow exactly the same situation for me. Just made a lot of sense.
@Alpha_Pulse Knowing me I'll probably keep the PS5 pre order because well........games. I just have so much to get through. I have a Switch as well.
@LtSarge I'm sorry, I had half my reply typed out but I had to delete it. I need to address this instead.
@Kefka2589 "I'm going to have to explain to my daughter why daddy doesn't love her enough to take her to see The Lion King"
Love isn't material. Please, for you and your daughter, build your love outside of what you have, and inside of the times you spend together. Whether you watch Lion King in the cinema or in your home, it only matters that you do it together.
@Kefka2589 I never said you couldn't or shouldn't.
@Kefka2589 Making that point while replying to me, implies I said otherwise. And the experience of something does add value to a piece of content. Going to the cinema to watch a movie, or a stage to watch a band, is totally different than watching and listening at home.
But in fairness, paying for game pass or buying outright, you're not changing that experience, because in both cases you have the experience at home. You only change the cost and the time spent with the content. So saying that an experience can add value is a weird argument to make when talking about game pass.
And I never said you had no sense of value. My very first opinion was simply "I prefer my method". It's not like I said 'people who buy game pass have no sense of value', or 'game pass is a waste of money'. Everything since then is me trying to explain why game pass doesn't hold the same value for me that it seems to for others.
I feel like people took my comment as a swipe at them and it really isn't the case.
@Mckilmer hahaha same! And thus begins anew the backlog of games... :/
I have to agree with him. On one side you have gamepass, which is phenomenal value and every Xbox exclusive is there day one. On the other you have Sony and £70 games on release, I love gaming but £70 for a game is insane to me, I wasn’t a fan of £50 but bit my tongue most of the time. A £20 increase is massive.
I think MS are smashing the competition with the value of gamepass, 15 millions subscribers and growing is nothing to sniff at.
"I see certain platforms going to, in the US pricing, $70 for games. "
OoooOOohhh.......is this low-key confirmation that Microsoft is not going the $70 route for their own games this gen?!? I've been waiting for them to say that for 5 weeks now.... That would be a big industry signal that there's not a new "standard" of $70 pricing just because Sony says there is.
Sony did it after Activision and 2k said they wanted to do it...but Ubisoft has been fence-sitting and refusing to comment (considering they're the home of the $100 complete edition, why raise the base price?)....if MS signals openly they're sticking with $60, the industry might pull back from that price overall, with the few arrogant outliers pushing their limits (and then putting rapid sales up after launch week or two.) I've been waiting for that!
@Grumblevolcano At what point did Nintendo handle preorders well for Switch? They infamously underproduced, being cautious post WiiU warehouse overload, preorders were sold out online within minutes as usual, and they continued to be behind demand for a further 8 months where scalpers had a field day the whole time....... WITHOUT a pandemic and logistics difficulties/demand boost in play.
MS at least set a date and time and stuck to it. Preorders were a cluster as they always are, boosted by pandemic demand and the fact that both companies waited until the mass market cared to open preorders unlike June E3 preorders. Sony just went for a candy scramble or something. They tried with the "register your interest" but failed by choosing to make it weird "ideal customer selection" rather than a lottery.
@Menchi Because PC games are never full price and consoles never have sales?
@thejameswhogames
Games on -Game Pass- will be up long enough for you to check out and enjoy. They won't be there forever. So if there's a game you like and want to have in your collection there will be physical.
Except that this $70 price tag isn't always $70, Phil. All PS5 users (who don't want to fork out 70$ per game) have to do is wait a few months and the deals will start rolling in.
Aside from Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil games, I hardly buy games day one (thank Christ for my huge backlog), so I can afford to buy Horizon Forbidden West a few months later when it will be 20$.
Xbox is gonna take over baby..
Gamepass is seriously changing the landscape
I already bought a Series X for myself but Game Pass has made it very easy to justify a Series S for the rest of the family (why yes, I really am that selfish!).
Seriously though, I make a very decent living but the randomness and uncertainty of 2020 has made finances quite a bit more conservative than in years past. I appreciate Microsoft taking note and responding accordingly.
@NEStalgia The point is on PC games are usually cheaper by default due to no licensing fee and there are 3rd party key sellers making game codes significantly cheaper day 0.
@Menchi Yeah, something really has to give with console digital. I understand the licensing and there's some value added there to a degree, but when retailers (in EU, not US) are cutting physical prices on pre-orders and day 1 and digital is full price, it's pretty lame.
The third party key vendors until this past year they were there for console, too. Nintendo is, weirdly, the last to have the ability to do that, weirdly enough. Though I'm ambivalent about that. It's a sketchy gray area of currency exchange rate manipulation (and some hot goods)... On one hand out feels wrong, and on the other that's how megacorps make the money they do, why shouldn't we?
I got some xb stuff that way before, but can't wash the feeling of sleeze away from the things I bought that way for some reason. Yet I'm sad to see the ended the possibility.
@NEStalgia I bought Wolfenstein 2 on PC physical here in Ireland on launch day, simply because it was somehow opposite day and it was being sold physical for less than half price. Was cheaper than even any keysites, reputable or otherwise on day 1.
Just stick with the legit sites and there shouldn't be issues.
Game Pass, backward compatibility, transparency, pro-consumer moves are all part of what made me switch from PS4, as well. Not to mention a quiet console- it really needs to be stressed just how bad Sony dropped the ball on the noise levels of the PS4 PRO under load. I literally stopped playing on it having finished TLoU2. I game at night (family man, not much time during the day) so I was constantly afraid my girls would wake up. Happy to start next gen on Team Xbox 🙂 I will get PS5 when it's cheaper and the games get cheaper too (only for the exclusives, though).
Also, xCloud works great on my wifi to the point I can see myself streaming games on a regular basis (currently playing The Walking Dead). Never thought streaming could be done so well (there are occasional issues, mind you- it's still in beta).
My combination is game pass ultimate which I got a year for £45 last week and a rental service I pay £9.99 a month on which I always pretty much got new releases day 1....save so much money, the amount of games I actually buy has reduced so much, the last game I bought was red dead 2 on release.
And if games are going upto £70 I will never spend that much, I think £50 is a rip off.
I had a PS4, then a Pro since their respective launch and loved them, but found then awfully loud and the durability of the controllers and the consoles disappointing.
Decided to get a One X in April, got three years of Gold for about 150,- € and upgraded it to GP Ultimate for one Euro...and never looked back.
I find GP an amazing value, even before Zenimax and EA Play and the volume and build quality of the One X vastly superior.
So I now have a Series X on preorder and can't wait. I'll probably get a PS5 at some point for the exclusives, but not in the next 2 years or so and before some hardware revisions. Also, with their strong commitment of carrying over and even improving my library, Xbox will most likely stay my main/multiplat system in the future.
@Kefka2589 @LtSarge I think it has to do with the fact that both PS+ and PS Now aren't their main strategy (maybe PS+ is). However, I think the positive side is that it allows costumers to pick. The downside is that it's more complicated than GamePass, but you can sub to PS Now, without ever paying for PS+ and vice versa. Both are $60 a year (120 in total), whereas Game Pass Ultimate is $180 for a year. PS+ comes with the PS+ Collection on PS5; 20 essential games. So I think you can make an argument for it. It's not a bad deal. You are missing out on the big Sony releases, but I don't think it makes sense for them to include it for that price. Especially not if they keep releasing several each year.
With GamePass it's simpler because it's all under one branding. Maybe Sony should change their branding as well, and offer option within that sub (monthly games, streaming games, etc.), and allow users to pick and choose. Essentially what they have now, but under one rebranded name so they can advertise it better.
Well he isn't wrong.
It's going to get very expensive being a PS5 owner with the new £69.99 price tag of first party titles.
I'll be relying on trading games in personally or being a lot more selective on what I actually purchase.
@Grumblevolcano Xbox supposedly held back consoles for launch to stop scalpers and at least Microsoft put a time on pre orders unlike PS5 shambles.
I think it's great. As Xbox wins on value and power Sony will have to win on game quality and fan service. I think everyone wins. PS5 will be for hard core gamers, Xbox will be more for casual gamers. Everyone can win.
@LtSarge
I couldn't disagree more. Games don't stay at £70 they drop in price. And games will cost the same on series X. Plus series S is very bad value with reports that it has only 364gb of usable storage and it's underpowered.
Finally game pass is priced €10 - €15
10x12=120 per year and how many games will you own? Zero. Game pass for 7 years, say a consoles lifespan = 840 minimum and you now own zero games. Last gen I didn't spend the colour of that on games and I have a stack of both one x and PS4 games. All or 99% of bought brand new for under €20 each.
@tinCAT-zero And how long will it take for a game to drop from €80 to a more reasonable €20? 2-3 years depending on the game? Are you honestly telling me that you're going to buy a PS5/Series X and not get any new games on the system until 2022-2023? Your argument makes sense if we're halfway through the generation, but not when we're still in the beginning.
I used to buy hundreds of games every year for all kinds of systems. Let's say on average that I paid €20 for every game. That's €2000+ on video games expenses for one year alone. How much did you say that Game Pass costs for 7 years? €840, i.e. less than half of what I pay for video games for one year only. Over 7 years I will have spent more than €10,000 on physical games purchases. And how much did you say Game Pass was for 7 years? €840? Yeah, totally not worth it at all. I'd rather pay €10,000 so that I can have physical copies of games I'm never going to play again, lol.
I never replay games because I'm constantly buying new ones, so all I'm doing is putting away physical copies in boxes and never playing them again. They're now taking up unnecessary space and I have no use of them again. Hence case in point, buying games traditionally is a thing of the past for me. There's a much cheaper option now and more people will realise this over time.
Tell me, how many people think "Oh I'd rather buy DVDs and Blu-Rays instead of subscribing to Netflix to watch the movies that I like"? Yeah, not that many. Only dedicated people will do that, the majority won't and Microsoft realises this with Game Pass.
@LtSarge
I was correcting you on your comment where you said - "It's going to be a very expensive generation for PlayStation users!"
My point is, it's not going to be anymore expensive than any other generation. And yes I am not going to buy any next gen games for at least 3 years since I won't be buying a series X and PS5 until then. Not everybody is an early adaptor. I used to buy day one or as close to as possible but I've learned that it is not very clever financially and with a backlog like mine is here is no panic.
I hear what you're saying about Netflix, but games are different. For me games are to be nurtured and cherished, I think game pass takes that away. I know I had game pass for a month and I didn't like it one bit. Any good games on it I already owned. I found it a bit intrusive on my console also.
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