Microsoft Hits Back At Apple Over Project xCloud's iOS Absence

I assume Netflix don't have to submit every piece of content on their service to Apple for review, so this excuse makes no sense. The app just hosts content that is outside of Apple's infrastructure, just as Netflix, Spotify and all other streaming platforms do. I suspect this has more to do with Apple not wanting people to game outside of their Apple arcade service

Is that a silly excuse? It seems so.

I love my iPhone, but times like these I want to smash my iPhone against concrete and tell apple to go [bleep] themselves.

This is [bleep], there are Remote Desktop apps on the store and they don’t demand each and every single one of them be approved via submissions.

We know the truth is they don’t like the idea of GamePass potentially undermining Apple Arcade. Honestly? I think I’m done, Apple has until the next high end Pixel phones come out.l to change my mind.

@Tharsman The point is, GamePass will let you play a game from a list of available games. This is different from stuff like Shadow.tech, which uses a remote desktop. (This basically gives you remote access to a desktop, instead of access to a game)

This is to prevent people from making an "app launcher" which launches an app that's not on the App Store / installed on the device. That could be a security risk.

@sanderev please, don’t try to defend this. This is remote play. None of these apps will run natively. This is a much a security risk as Netflix adding a new movie without having to get App Store approval.

Lol, talk about reaching new levels of stupid Apple. As mentioned already, they don't apply that to video streaming services. This is the same concept morons!

@Grot except the games won't be searchable from the app store. It's all enclosed within game pass. So, that is all a meaningless argument. It's the same exact concept as Netflix having movies they stream that Apple sells on their store.

@Grot I did, and my point still stands. I didn't say you are for it. Your "argument" was explaining their reasoning and I'm telling you that reasoning makes absolutely zero sense and is built on a false premise of xcloud games being searchable, individually, through Apple marketplace. Again it's the exact same concept as Netflix as far as they should be concerned.

Uh...okay. That's an interesting defense.

The fact that Apple had to respond to this means they are getting flak for it. That answer won’t satisfy anyone. They are going to have issue another statement soon. I suspect Apple will taking heat from this for a long while.

You know... I already changed my mind. I’m not waiting for the high end pixel, I’m caving in and getting the Note 20 Ultra.

@mousieone I have been running iPhone since 2009. Apple is going to lose a 11 year long customer overnight over this. Admittedly, it’s not the sole reason; just the straw that broke the camels back.

@Tharsman I’m with you, brother. I switched to android for my last phone, and for my current one switched back to Apple because of a few things/apps/purchases (and lower cost per month) I missed, and I totally regret it. It’s not worth it. Android is way better, despite a few downsides. When my contract is up, I’m getting off Apple for good.

@BlueOcean given the trash on the apple store, yes this is a silly excuse.

@Grot lol k...

@Tharsman I’m kind of there as well. I mean I don’t have that Apple brand loyalty; I just didn’t want to switch. It was easier. I don’t even use my Mac anymore, and haven’t for years.

@Grot They are answers sure but they are paper thin answers. Although you are right the article gives more context, it’s still not a good answer. I mean the excuse that “games are different medium” than movies is stupid; Netflix is make an interactive tv show or has already. I think it’s out, anyway the lines are blurry. We are long past the divide that they are trying to cling to. Their answers just don’t hold water and I think this time it might just cost them in court. I think they are being sued over this...

@mousieone I don’t have loyalty either, I do own Android tablets, mostly because I find iPads too expensive for how much I use them, but I genuinely feel the iOS environment as a whole offer a ridiculously higher quality experience.

That does not mean I have any actual “brand loyalty” I just feel they make a quality product. But I detest the way they have been handling the eco system, especially in the last few years. Not that it’s exactly a new thing, but it feels lately they are intentionally stretching the definition of their lame rules, instead of just clearly writing down what they know will come to bite them as anti-competitive.

@Grot @Tharsman MS responded, and Wow it is hot. This is the MS I remember.. It’s on Windows Central

https://www.windowscentral.com/apple-responds-xbox-project-xcloud-ios-roadblock-citing-store-policies

Personally I don’t care if xCloud will be accessible on Apple devices, if I want to play a game it will be through a game console on a tv rather than a phone.
And before anyone says “but you can play it on the go” that’s why I have a switch, which I prefer over my Xbox.

This just makes my decision for me (I was already thinking of doing it)...... 👋 Apple. I haven’t bought anything in that ecosystem anyways.

That was the best burn I've seen all week 😂

Unfortunate thing about this is a really don't see either one budging any time soon. Neither one of these companies typically backs down. Hopefully this gets resolved in some way for you ios folks eventually

I have an iPhone so I’m not happy. Does xcloud work for pc? I have ok internet but my pc is too weak to actually play modern games. Maybe I could stream them there?

I can actually hear the sheer anger in the comment issued by Microsoft. We all know the criticism surrounding iPhone and the clear advantages Android has over iOS. Apple should stop being so stubborn, they somehow manage to one-up even Sony when it comes to brand narcissism.

I'm stock Android all the way. As a matter of principle I'll never buy an iPhone or a flagship phone. I value my money to much than to be throwing it at "possible" the richest company in the world.
BTW I'm not interested in game pass either. I prefer to own my games.

@tinCAT-zero You can still benefit from game pass if you prefer owning games you can just buy it for the first time for 1 dollar and use it to see if you will like a game but afraid of spendind that much money on it and if you do love it just buy it instead of paying 50 dollars and then getting disappointed by the game or ending up not liking it at all

@experTiger
I normally buy games when they hit €20. I will agree tho, because I tried a month's free game pass voucher I had and there were a few games on it that I might have bought but after trying them i decided I didn't want them so it did save me money there.

Microsoft's reply is right. Their words, "All games available in the Xbox Game Pass catalog are rated for content by independent industry ratings bodies such as the ESRB and regional equivalents" are something that I have realised as well and that makes Apple's excuses absolute nonsense.

@experTiger Not to mention, if you buy digital, there is a 20% discount on games that currently exist on Game Pass.

The whole "anti-consumer" argument is ridiculous as if Game Pass somehow nullifies the ability to purchase a title. People don't think about how it's a great way to get introduced to a plethora of games.

Heck I am just happy that, when Series X does release, I only have to buy the system and nothing more as Game Pass will be taking care of the majority of my initial gaming needs for Series X.

Regarding this: good on Microsoft for calling out Apple's garbage PR answer. Just admit it, Apple doesn't want Game Pass competing with Apple Arcade because Apple knows that people will prefer it over something Apple has invested a lot in creating. Though, even that logic doesn't hold much water as Apple still allows for non-Apple TV video apps on it's platform.

@GamingFan4Lyf I think Apple is more interested on getting money from any IAP that games might have. Being able to "vet each game individually" would actually allow them to block any game that lets you buy stuff for free. Fortnite is big, huge, and not just in consoles. Apple does not want anyone to stream Fortnite and buy IAP in a different ecosystem.

@tinCAT-zero I'm not going to say that GamePass is for everyone, because it isnt, but I am in a boat similar to yours. I always buy my games, physical copy if possible.

I still see benefit on GamePass and xCloud. For one, xCloud would allow me to play games I own, and also happen to be on xCloud, remotely. Even I can also not deny the convenience of being able to just start a game without reaching for the disk, or being able to try games.

Other times I might just play a game I own, but for a different platform. I still that game, likely on the switch, but now also get to play it on the XBox without a heavy additional investment.

That said: I am pre-ordering Halo Infinite whenever it becomes available on Amazon, even if I have Game Pass.

@Tharsman
If you're a fan of Halo I say go for it. I found game pass a bit intrusive on my console tbh. As for Xcloud and cloud gaming in general - I'm not going to be a part of that. I read recently that Phil Spencer said that the real competition wasn't Sony or Nintendo but it was Amazon and Google. I will not be a part of that system they are trying to carve out. Amazon and Google in gaming would make my blood run cold.

@Tharsman Incorrect. A movie will never interact with your device. A game will. I buy Apple devices because then I know every app I install on it has been checked by Apple that it won't steal my private information or corrupt my device because of some virus.

Apple has a very clear list of rules that applies to all apps on the App Store, they don't play favorites. If they'd allow MS to release a game streaming service, they would have to allow every game streaming service. Including those that will steal all your data.

There is a reason you need to have anti virus software on an Android device.

@tinCAT-zero you might had taken that statement way too literally. Spencer himself has clarified what he meant with that a few times already. Anyways, not trying to sell it to you, it’s not for everyone, as I Said before.

@sanderev first: I bought Apple devices for similar reason, but a streamed game does never interact with the phone. That’s is no way for a streamed game to ever reach into your phone. There will never be game code running in the xCloud client app, any info sent to the game is sent via the app code that Apple already vetted on every update. All that the client ever does is send controller input data to the server, the remote server in turn is just seeing an Xbox as it’s host device, and a video stream of the resulting render is eventually sent back.

It seriously isn’t much different to Remote Desktop apps, and we have plenty of those.

Facebook gaming offering, on the other hand, did run, if I am not wrong, game code on the client. THAT is the stuff I always expect Apple to block.

@Grot as someone that actually has published in the App Store, I disagree with any cry of unfairness over xCloud. The only other party I can think could legitimately complain would be Google over Stadia, since they are exactly on the same boat.

Again, given no game is running locally, or even able to see anything about the local device, I find the security question is not valid.

Being able to remotely buy stuff? I can do that via Remote Desktop. There is an app that lets me stream games from a pc with Nvidia cards, Moonlight, and it also will let me spend IAP remotely.

At the end of the day, it’s exaggerated greed. Imagine if they had tried to do the same forced approach with iAd, when they were still running that. Forcing all non-browser apps that had ads to exclusively rely on iAd instead.

Either way, after 11 years, Apple is losing me this month as a customer. I defended them myself over and over throughout the years, still defend them over the Facebook gaming app, but this is, in my book, indefensible. I’m lucky it’s time for me to upgrade and I was holding off for the next iPhone. So glad this happened before it came out.

I know Apple well enough to know all this chatter is meaningless, they are a stubborn company that will never admit wrong. They will not change their stance on this, but I don’t have to stick around either.

Time to build my own portable Xbox One. 🤣

@Tharsman I never said the xCloud client would do that. But others might, I, for one, could easily create an app that would connect to a "game" and execute code downloaded from the server locally on the phone.

Without testing every single game (which this problem implies) Apple could never test that. That to them - and by proxy me - is a security risk.

(I am an app developer, and I have good morals. I would never make an app like that )

@sanderev that is on the review of the base app itself. The base all just can’t allow that. Sure, some might hide functionality, but that is not new. There been ton of apps with hidden functionality over the years that Apple had to ban after the fact. No rule will prevent that from happening, it can happen with something as mundane as a calculator or a note app that hides a torrent server or a console emulator.

@Tharsman True. But there it would be noticable that the app connects to a server when it's not supposed to. And yes, you could for one make an app that's an RSS reader that has a default news feed and that feed giving it "new code" after it has been approved. Your app will be removed faster than you can say "not fair" and they will even revoke your developer license for that.

But, I'm trying to give an example here. There are other checks on apps as well. Like, for instance, parental control. Screen time. etc. Which really wouldn't work with a game streaming launcher.

@sanderev “But there it would be noticable that the app connects to a server when it's not supposed to. “

Nope. For one, almost every app you ever used connects to a server when online, at minimum, for analytics. It is also trivially easy to set date locks on code so things don’t happen until long after they showed up in the App Store. Again: this is not new. Apple does not look at your code. Reviewers, almost entirely, base their decisions on humans using the app, not on snooping network traffic nor crawling the code base.

Parental controls also don’t work on movie streaming, or audio streaming. It’s a meaningless reason. Any app that downloads anything, even chat apps for text, already are on this ballpark.