Reaction: Microsoft's Constant Tweaking Of Xbox Game Pass Is Becoming Exhausting

Honestly, being an Xbox customer this generation has been exhausting, console users are being treated like third-class citizens by Microsoft, we have to pay to play online, and now we have to pay more to have any version of Game Pass and waaay more to get games day one compared to PC, and this comes after the shift in strategy where most if not all Xbox exclusives are heading to PS5 or Switch.

Funny how literally just yesterday I was just thinking to myself, “Xbox has been on a streak lately, maybe they are finally done with screw ups” and hours later they announced this, next generation I’m out of Xbox, if it still exists anyway.

They should finally introduce the ad based budget version that has been rumored for awhile. A version for $6.99 or something with ads might be appealing to those who are starting to feel it's getting too expensive.

Really hit the nail on the head, and I'd said something similar myself. The entirety of the Xbox experience has become "case by case basis", "more details later", "don't worry, nothing's going to change" (one month later: "WE CHANGED IT like the youtubers said we would when we said no!") They don't know who their customer is, they don't know where that customer is, they don't know what that customer wants, they seem to only know the customer they have isn't the one they want and is an expendable tool to try to get the one they want.

Not so different from PS where the F2P whale appears to be the only customer they want/need/have and everyone else just doesn't matter.

Right now, I would find it hard to recommend Xbox to anyone. Not because it doesn't have good features but because you don't know what those features are, what they will be 6 months from now, or if they will exist at all, nor what it will cost. It's a scratch-off lottery. They'll figure it out next month after this month's figures come in. It's like a console by a Kickstarter company except it's Microsoft.

And any time they get good press and put themselves in a confident place they slap their customers in the face with a 2x4 within a few weeks, stirring the chaos again.

Meanwhile on PS you know you're going to get screwed before you start. And on Nintendo you've been screwed since you were a kid so you're just used to it.

My sub doesn't expire until 2026, but I'm already planning to not re-sub. I'm done with gamepass. Between the price hike for ultimate, the standard sub, and the constant nerfs for microsoft rewards... I'm just tired and done...

My current subscription ends in September; I'm done after that, I've already set it to not automatically renew. I've had enough.

@NEStalgia all this nonsense when ALL WE ASKED THEM FOR was games. 'Hey Microsoft, why can't you get better games over the finish line?' Turned into all this....and most of their first party games STILL aren't that good.

I kept Game Pass when I moved to PC because I got a year of Ultimate when I switched internet providers, but I hardly ever use it anymore. The main reason I wanted it - Xbox games - have either been few and far between or have been underwhelming. There's always the promise of "the games are coming, we swear!" but they've been so hit and miss so far, I don't see the point in me keeping the service on the off chance one of their future games will keep be hooked. What with that, and the confusing mess of tiers; do you want day one games (which you'll still get later than other people in some cases, unless you splash out extra money), do you want cloud gaming, etc...

Once my current subscription ends, I won't be renewing it. I can understand the appeal if you're on console, but on PC there are so many other options to get games at a ridiculously steep discount. I'm generally not bothered about playing games as soon as they come out, so in future I'll just wait for XGS, Bethesda and ABK games to go cheap, like I do with most other games I'm interested in.

Microsoft had a good thing going with Game Pass but, as is usually their way, they've found a way to balls it up.

@somnambulance that's LITERALLY all we asked for.

@WhiteRabbit This is officially known as Game Pass Confusion Day at PX HQ 😄

@WhiteRabbit best response I’ve seen today 🤣

I just want the catalogue+ Day 1 games without having to pay for online.

I am strongly mulling over selling off my Xbox Series X and PS5 and pulling the trigger on a good gaming laptop.

I am just worried about requirements for the next generation.

Would getting a laptop with an Nvidia 4080 (and DLSS, Ray-reconstruction, and Frame Generation, etc..) carry me both through this generation and through next generation?

Would the physical hardware even last that long (especially when most places say that gaming laptops really only have a 3 - 5 year lifespan)?

I really don't want to get back into building gaming desktops (as they have a longer shelf life) like I did in the early 2000s and I like the convenience of a laptop. But, I also don't want to have to spend thousands on a new machine every 3 - 5 years, either.

I am just growing tired of both Xbox and PlayStation's ecosystems (I just want the games, not the baggage that comes with it). I am also tired of having multiple consoles, cables, controllers, etc. in the house when a gaming laptop can pretty much cater to all my gaming needs (well, except current Nintendo hardware that I will always own).

While I certainly have appreciated the value of Game Pass Ultimate, I wouldn't be hurt if it just went away entirely. In fact, I'd love it if one of the Big Three took the biggest leap and just did away with all services and just existed based on great games for the hardware and marketplace sales - you know, like how PC storefronts rely on great games and marketplace sales.

No charge for online play
Free Cloud saves (well Microsoft already does this...)

This has been my #1 problem with Xbox for years. I'm sorry but Phil has to go. Xbox HAS to be led by someone capable of creating and executing a concrete, straightforward plan. Notice that once again he's gone missing when there's bad news? Not great leadership.

Top tier is now £180 a year, somewhere around 3 new AAA party games. You have to ask yourself are you confident you will play more than 3 new games on the service day one and enjoy them, or if you could get better value buying a little bit later in sales or missing things you don’t need?

And that doesn’t just go for Microsoft or gaming in general. It counts for Netflix and all the other subscriptions.

Just give us gold back for god's sake 😂

I’m tired. The industry is a mess.

@MrGawain if your paying £180 a year for gamepass ultimate your doing it wrong. and if your only playing 3 games a year why have it anyway

By obligation, Microsoft CANNOT be on a roll for too long without some sort of controversy to shake things up and lose consumer trust. Can't get people to have TOO much trust in your brands now, that would be just awful...

@MrGawain, not really, because you would have to buy those three games day one. If you are a bit patient you get much more than that for 180 bucks.

The fact that this comes after the stellar Xbox showcase last month is just really bad. It looks like they are going in the Netflix direction; making the more inexpensive tier the one with less content and features just to push for more people to buy the more expensive tiers. Them locking specific games behind the expensive ones is the thing that stuck out the most to me. I, unfortunately, don't have all the money to buy individual games or the more expensive subscription, so I found the Console sub to be the best option. Them introducing free internet for the Standard subscription is great, but the caveat is that they are now locking games behind Ultimate and PC game pass...It stinks because I found a lot of value in it and I am apart of the PX Game Club, and it seems that a lot of people there are now going to unsub and not renew. When they get onto a specific game there (which I own) I'll likely leave the Game Club, unfortunately. The new prices are too expensive for me.

@Kezelpaso i remember when the bethesda buyout was announced. i celebrated and called it "xbox day".

what happened between that day and this day is a nightmare im still waiting to wake up from.

@rustyduck 💀

Not a huge deal to me. I've purchased codes from other countries for years and used a VPN to save hundreds on Gamepass

@trev666 I totally agree, there are plenty of ways to get it cheaper. If you're not playing many games then you're simply restricting yourself, when you can play a game that cost about £50 to £70 and complete it then move on.

@MrGawain Even that though is not a direct comparison. At least if you bought the three games you can play them again next year. With Game Pass you have to keep paying for them all over again if you want to go back to them in the future. Also if you got any DLC that would become obsolete unless you kept on subbing as you would not be able to access it.

Game Pass only makes sense at this point for a 'fast food gamer', consuming and disposing of games at a rapid rate. For anyone else the far better option is to buy outright.

@MrGawain Or you could just buy your subscriptions from places like CDKeys, Eneba etc at about half that price.
I can never understand why anyone quotes RRP prices when Microsoft allow you to shop around they don't lock you to their store.

It’s exhausting for sure. I’m paid through mid-2025, but I’m not looking forward to trying to figure it out. I guess it depends which games won’t be day one, and how late they’ll be. Not sure I care about EA Play, and cloud streaming is kind of crap anyway. And most day one games I can live without. Looking forward to avowed, but I can sure wait a year to play it.

Microsoft has lost their way! The 360 was their golden era and they haven’t been able to hit the same heights consistently yet Sony have hit the heights of PS2 (not sales) but games over and over again.

It’s okay though, we can play all Xbox exclusives on PS5 and Switch soon enough!!

C'mon Microsoft, add something new, do some different but better!

@Sifi Eneba is a safe space for my credit card? i love that they sell $7 gpu cards. this is about what i pay now but have to buy 1 to 3 years in advance.

@NEStalgia I think Xbox are just stuck. Throwing things at the wall and hoping something will stick.

In the last year alone…

2 GPU price rises.
New/change tiers.
Early access charges for day 1 (day 5) gpgames
70billion on ABK (with currently little to show in GPU additions).
Games on competition consoles.

And nothing is working. Sales are down. Subscriptions are levelling.

So what do they try next? I really don’t think they know. They are so used to outspending the competition and it’s not working currently.

I'm still waiting on details of the "family" GP plan, if that'll ever happen.

@Jake_homs I forgot that was ever on the cards until I read your comment. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you...

They haven’t put out anything even remotely playable for almost 2 years and they think they deserve more?

Subscriptions can only get so expensive until I start to question the value they're presenting. The entire appeal of these gaming subscriptions is having access to a wide variety of games at one low rate, but if that rate is no longer low, I really start to question why I don't just apply the money I am spending on a subscription towards buying games I can actually own.

This question is made more obvious by the fact that I just really don't play games online much anymore. Over 90% of the games these subscriptions offer don't do anything for me and I can easily live without them, it's just a few that I really play often and get value out of. That and I have generally been losing interest in new games lately anyways, so having a subscription to keep up with the latest just isn't as appealing as it once was.

When the big sales come around I am really going to be looking into buying the few Gamepass games I still see myself playing long term and might just let it expire and move on from the concept.

My GP subscription expired. I'll stick with buying great single player games and playing them by myself. That's what I did when I first picked up the original Xbox. That gave me the greatest joy. Fortunately, I have a good amount of friends that are on the Xbox. Unfortunately, we almost never play games together. So, it doesn't matter to me.

There's a potential plus side to this we're all overlooking. This is really just a Game Pass price drop back to the original $15, because is there anybody at all that feels they actually got value out of playing Starfield and Redfall Day One? It's now $15 for Game Pass, or $20 to join their Xbox QA Ready Access Program (X-QRAP) service.

@Fenbops Yeah this value for your subscription issue is industry wide IMO. I mean it's not like things are better at Playstation, after their most recent PS+ price hikes I let my subscription expire and I no longer have an interest in subscribing again, I just think it represents poor value for money when I got honest about the games I really played from it. Nintendo's Switch Online service is also something I let expire, I never really play my Switch online and their emulator apps just aren't worth paying a subscription for.

The whole gaming industry just feels like it's trying to milk everyone with these subscriptions much like the streaming industry these days, and I've definitely gotten to the point where I've been questioning why I keep paying for some of these subscriptions especially as the rates go up. At least when I buy games it's just a one time expense and I have access to my games for as long as I like. With a subscription your access is instantly removed as soon as enough time has passed. I am really getting tired of subscription expenses.

@JayJ same boat. I hardly play online so didn’t bother renewing PS+ last year and I dropped GP as I really wasn’t using it much. Nintendo online is laughable, they’re a decade behind or more 😂

I did sub to GP for a month to play Hellblade 2, but like I said elsewhere, the games just haven’t been regular enough for me to want to keep it, it works out cheaper just buying titles in sales eventually.

When subscription services mainly profit from selling subscriptions and not ads, guess what? They're gonna keep jacking up the prices on you. This was inevitable with their business model. You can only sell so many subscriptions, you max out at some point and to keep investors happy profits have to increase. That's captialism, baby!

@IOI subsidized gamepass is still a great deal mate. For day one there is the option to buy new but I know most don’t want to do that. As 60$-70$ seems too high. The price increase is so small considering all that one gets. I don’t like GP but I admit it’s a great deal. I prefer to buy outright and support devs, well as long as I can get a physical copy. I agree with the other things you said about Xbox being confusing this generation.

@Jake_homs "Family plan", "play your own library games on cloud", "Series X cloud servers/4k" there's a whole raft of promised GP features from years ago that they still haven't implemented yet managed 2 price increases, a new tier, and blacklisting games outside the top tier all before implementing basic features promised in 2022.

@PsBoxSwitchOwner I think it depends on defining success. They're now, I believe the largest publisher in the world. That smells like success. I don't think it's that they haven't found success, it's that they haven't actually decided what success actually is, and it's hard to achieve success in any one area if you keep changing the goal posts and confusing your customers by jerking them in every new direction your CFO wants to adventure to. But......that also defines MS as a whole these days. I've said it often but they operate like a hedge fund rather than a tech company. They don't have a tech goal. They don't focus on ONE thing until they're the biggest and best. They jump from thing to thing whichever way the market trend is blowing and abandon the old one.

The main problem is exactly as Amy Hood stated in the trials. They want to see Xbox generate margin more in line with their other divisions. Their other divisions are monopolies with government contracts. Xbox will never generate margins anywhere close to those other divisions. It's impossible, even if they bought Sony and Nintendo. So while they chase the impossible, they keep kneecapping their real success potential in the market by changing directions with no clear message every few months.

@JayJ "Subscriptions can only get so expensive until I start to question the value they're presenting."

Exactly. A lot of these sub companies keep messing with the idea that "all things just get more expensive forever so we can just keep raising the price every year forever." It misses the point that at some point they cross a value line where that money is better spent on something else, and a reduction of their product usage makes the most sense.

The problem is the game industry outside mobile doesn't seem to be growing, and appears to even be shrinking. So they feel the need to milk the customers they have for every last penny. And worse a lot of gamers seem to be both wealthy and stupid enough to not care and be willing to pay it. Makes a dangerous combination that abusing customers actually leads to better numbers.

@Ooccoo_Jr "Game Pass only makes sense at this point for a 'fast food gamer', consuming and disposing of games at a rapid rate."

Yeah I said a similar thing yesterday. At the old pricing GP was a great companion subscription for any gamer to get access to a bunch of things they might not otherwise try. But now at the newest pricing, 25% more than it was a year ago, the value changed. It's now an either or. GP is a route for a non-committed gamer that just wants to try things without building their own library - it's their only access to gaming and they play whatever's on it. If you're someone that also builds your own library and goes off the farm to games that aren't on GP, it's just too expensive to continue using. I think they're going to see a large sub drop due to this, as a whole class of customer got outpriced by this change, and probably won't come back. Not sure what new customer they expect to pick up to replace them.

@GamingFan4Lyf "Would getting a laptop with an Nvidia 4080 (and DLSS, Ray-reconstruction, and Frame Generation, etc..) carry me both through this generation and through next generation?"

Definitely not a laptop version of a 4080 and equivalent CPU through Series Y/PS6. Honestly desktop 4090 probably won't carry you through NEXT generation either. I could see it lasting for 3 GPU gens (2 years each) so maybe a 4-7 year lifespan, but by mid-next gen I'm certain it'll start showing its age. Though, over that much time you have as much chance of it breaking as just being not good enough. By then there will be some new must-have feature (DLSS4? New HDMI standard? Required AI components? 48GB VRAM?) that will be locked behind a 7070.

There's a caveat to that though. With game devs tapping out on spending too much on developing "high end' graphics games, the industry might be dialing back. I don't know what that means for the next consoles. For GPUs the trend has been that the TOP tier cards (xx80/xx90) go up 50% in performance (and also up 40% in price) each generation, but the mid-tier cards which are the cards MOST people buy (xx60, xx70) only get a 15% bump or so (4070 Ti Super being the outlier, it's really a stripped down and gimped 4080, not a 4070.) And those high end cards are only bought half by gamers, competing in the market with people using them as "cheap" alternative to $6000 workstation cards for CAD and video production and local deep learning AI models so the steady sales don't reflect gaming users necessarily - a video editor needs 24GB VRAM. A 4090 is the only viable option and is cheaper than the A6000 pro cards by a few grand. In other words, performance is mostly static for the majority of gamers between gens now with minimal gains. Nvidia even said something similar about why the prices will stay high, basically, they don't get much better any more, and if game devs aren't going to be pushing the gfx as hard, we might be stagnant for a while in which case, run the 4080 till it breaks. But IDK about laptop versions.... The whole "it's a 4080, but not actually the same product" naming of mobile parts has always bothered me. It's not the same part. It doesn't have the same power profile, thermals, or performance.

@somnambulance It's a catch-22. There's that temptation to be so frustrated with Xbox you just want to go to PS. Then you remember that the problem with Xbox is that' it's moving ever closer to where PS already is, it's just that it makes no sense from them to do that while also being in a losing position. Xbox used to be the better but less popular alternative. Now it's just the same alternative except without the popularity to back it up and (for now) a few nicer features.

@sarcasmasquach yup and it’s not cheap running data centers nor expanding racks in said data centers. People have become so entitled to cheap everything for the gaming hobby yet expect it all.

Subscription tiers change all the time with these entities. This is the downside of being beholden to the rental model. As one is truly beholden to the entity. It’s why I only buy my console game’s physically. Anyways people are making such a big deal out of this. The same people that want more from subsidized gamepass. It costs money to run a data center plus expand and upgrade servers. Infrastructure doesn’t come cheap. Also all of those deals Microsoft gets to get most games on GP cost as well. Plus they loose money on their big hits now on the Xbox side like Call of Duty by offering day on GP. Anyways in my teens I remember working to buy new games for my x360/ps3 outside of the ones that my parents got. Modern gamers have it much cheaper to play today on the Xbox camp.

@Vaako007 " It costs money to run a data center plus expand and upgrade servers. Infrastructure doesn’t come cheap."

You're mixing up cloud and GP itself, where GP's datacenter cost is just the transmission bandwidth for download, shared with digital purchases - I.E. If they're selling the games, the subs require 0% more disk space or rack capacity, only transmission bandwidth for extra downloads.

Cloud requires more racks, but then there's all the more reason to separate cloud into its own expensive tier as a hardware purchasing alternative rather than as a bundle for hardware purchasers, because renting GPUs isn't cheap - doesn't affect the download portion of the service. Or are console buyers and PC/Windows buyers being used to subsidize other people renting GPUs? Another consideration.

@NEStalgia "Honestly desktop 4090 probably won't carry you through NEXT generation either."

Yeah, that's my worry too.

But with things like Frame Gen, DLSS, etc. I wonder if something like a 4080 or 4090 - while not able to run "Ultra" settings on new games down the road, could get away with "Console settings" and still provide a decent experience longer than GPUs have before we had this technology.

My goal is to just play the games at the minimum "console quality" for a couple of generations. Maybe wait until the 50 series of Nvidia cards are released?

Plus, I am also looking at a broad spectrum of games. I can run emulation on a PC. Things like GOG provide older titles that I am also a fan of.

If I were to take the leap, I'd definitely look at the top-tier GPUs now - even if it's overkill - because mid-tier GPU, while cheaper, won't go the distance.

@GamingFan4Lyf I think if you don't mind stepping down to 1080p/30 with DLSS scaling and framegen, it might end up ok, or at least often ok. But then if you need say DirectX 13 support by then, you're SoL. Or, with a 4080 with 16GB VRAM if 24GB starts to become normal and 6090 has 48GB you might start feeling it etc. It's one of those hard to predict things.

My gut feeling says you can probably run a GPU DESKTOP mind you, if it doesn't break, for a decade, these days, if you don't mind dropping down to low internal resolutions and lots of gfx settings off. Which is really console like anyway. But where you'll end up in trouble eventually might be VRAM, DX version requirements etc where you just hit a brick wall. or it may not happen.

Then again I can guarantee you the next PSXbox will be $600 minimum but more likely 700. Phil hinted at subsidy ending. PS wanted 600 last gen. So if you figure, this gen console plus next gen console, excluding mid gens, it's $1200 for 2 gens of ONE brand consoles anway....is 2 GPUs much worse? And you can upgrade your CPU too especially if AM5 in that time. That's better than "PRO" models offer if you want.

Pricier? Yes, still probably pricier. Maybe. But I'd be more wary of the cards just breaking in that time. Stuff happens. Cards run hot. Fan bearings don't last forever. Though for a whole laptop that change is more painful and what laptop really lasts a decade or more? Something breaks somewhere.

All that being said, I, too, Am looking into the PC conversion full speed at this point. I dipped my toes in with Legion/Ally and love it. Used to be PCMR for over a decade back in the day. Seems like this is the right time to cross back over.

PERSONALLY I'm looking at top tier GPUs as well, however I honestly would not be if VR did not matter to me. I think value wise a 4070 super or Ti Super + another 6070 later is probably more value than one supercard today that will be old later. But for me VR is a major priority and even a 4090 "isn't quite enough" to fully drive a good PCVR set, and even 5090 may barely cut it, so it's sort of a "get by for now until what I actually need actually exists, probably a decade later" sort of thing.

Game Pass should be two tiers. Ultimate the way it is today. And Standard which is just Xbox exclusives. Both tiers should have day 1, cloud and special discounts.
Oh, and online play should be free, like on PC. That would give Xbox a clear advantage over both PS and Switch.

The industry has made me buy a ROG Ally and play PS2/PS3/X360 games over the ones coming out nowadays. I have a Switch and a PS5 but the Switch is mostly used by my daughter and the PS5 is mostly gathering dust. My GPU sub expires in December and I’ll wait till then to weigh my options but I might downgrade to PC Game Pass.

@Fenbops Yup, seems like it doesn't take long for good sales to show up on most games these days anyways. Heck deep sales have become a routine thing for most games after they have been on the market for a number of months.

Combine this with my backlog and it's like I just really don't see the need to keep up with subscriptions anymore. I own more games than I can find to time to play as it is, and they just aren't releasing new games that appeal to me all that regularly anymore anyways. I think Flight Simulator, Starfield, and a Yakuza title are among the few Gamepass games I really play regularly, and I was telling myself that if the subscription gets any more expensive I might as well just buy the games.

@NEStalgia Part of the reason I got out of PC gaming around 2010 was because PC hardware was so expensive to "stay current".

But, unlike 2010, pretty much all games release on PC at some point now (well except all Nintendo published titles and only select Sony games - I doubt Astro Bot will ever release on PC).

I guess I am just stuck with doing the whole multi-console thing - unless Microsoft goes 100% third-party publisher by the end of the generation (in which case I will buy a PS6) or decides to make its next console 100% PC-based (in which case I will get that as I seriously doubt Sony would be able to block its games from running on said Xbox PC as that would give Sony power to essentially block a PC just because it says "Xbox" on the plastic - and I just don't see Valve, GOG, Epic letting Sony do that).

@NEStalgia X-QRAP made me laugh 😂

@somnambulance
Two weeks ago I posted on push square that I decided as of now and moving forward into the future Playstation is now my major platform.
So as of two weeks ago all third party will be purchased on PS5 and of course my future subscription services.

I will keep my series x for now as my GPU doesn’t run out until March 2025 with no renewal.

That’s my future and now it’s done. Been with Xbox since day one and all the consoles day one so it wasn’t an easy decision.

My Switch is Switch but lame for me right now, but of course let’s see what Switch two brings.

@jFug At least someone noticed! 😂

I've been having a think and to be honest whilst I'm irritated that they've hiked the price again it's not the end of the world.

Whilst owning games IS better than kinda renting them on a subscription service...when I add up the price of new games today (around £60) and also factor in the sheer amount of games on game pass and how much keeps being added...it's still incredible value.

Now saying that I very much DON'T want constant increases or them seeing opinions like this and thinking "hmm, I wonder how much people would pay 🤔" because regardless of value it would still price me out going up by much more, but on the whole it's still good value and it still trumps the available selection on PS Plus by FAR (and I have access to both so no need for me to pick sides.)

That they only released their new plan one year ago, and now have to create a whole new plan, is perfect proof that Xbox is run by incompetent clowns.
Hellblade 2 was a disaster, with Xbox making zero demand or request to improve the gameplay which is why that game failed so badly. Then you’ve got the disaster that was Halo Infinite, Redfall……, & is really obvious that Spencer, Matt Booty, Sarah Bond….and the rest responsible need to be fired & replaced.

@GamingFan4Lyf Yeah it sounds like your timeline is a whole lot like mine actually. I think that's exactly when I built my last gaming rig as well, and spent like $3k on it, and was looking over my shoulder at $400 consoles thinking "why am I doing this?" Felt like I was wasting infinite money and then spending more time making it work.

I think PC remains expensive, and possibly much more expensive than console in terms of hardware. OTOH games discount better, are cheaper at launch, and GP is almost half the price if sticking with it. That's something. Long run you still spend a lot more I think on PC, but the problem is with console nickel and diming as it is, the gap is closing that in the end, it's still cheaper on console, but if you compare how MUCH cheapr it really is total vs how much worse an experience you have, IDK if it's worth it if it's a major hobby.

Using the little ROG Ally, not the Z1 Extreme, just the regular Z1, and I can coax most non-blockbuster games to get 45-60fps where I can't even do that with most games on PS5/XSX where shadow detail is forced on me, framerate be darned....there's more life in those PC parts than console, even where games are poorly optimized. The console performance this gen is just flat out poor.

When I figure, $500 for Xbox, $500 for PS5, another probably $600+ for PS5 Pro to make it almost acceptable. Next gen probably 600-700 for each console...under-speced as always, then probably another pro? Yeah, a $1600 4090 + another $1200 PC compoents + probably another $1800 7090 + another $350 CPU in a few years.....it's still more expensive. But at $250 a year for GP (or over 300 by then)....how much more expensive is it really? At the current price 4 years of Game Pass buys you a 4080 FE/Ventus/Windforce/Trinity. With the backlogs we have....that 4080 is a lot more valuable. You can pick up those XGS games when they hit $30 on Steam (unless MS gates them to Windows Store only which would be hilarious, pathetic, and on-brand.)

Also totally agreed on "most" Sony games but probably not Astrobot. If I go full headfirst into PC again, Astrobot may end up being my last PS purchase. ALTHOUGH, I also suspect that it will sell terribly and then end up ported to PC where it will also sell terribly, just like Sackboy. Nerdz are interested in the game. The mass PS market I suspect is not, and the mass PC market I know is not. At least the PC version I can rig VorpX up to run it in VR lol.

Should have change the core teir name as well:

Gamepass basic
Gamepass standard
Gamepass ultimate

It is ABSOLUTELY a complete and total disaster now!

It was SO, SO, SO much better when able buy 12 months of Xbox live on sale for $40 somewhere online and be done with it. Did that every year for like 10+ years. Now they forced all this game pass sh*t on us. Terrible now

@EdgarTheBug Exactly. Think my comment above covers it all really.

@GamingFan4Lyf I am absolutely with you on this one. I just recently took my ps4/5 game collection of about 70 games down to the second hand shop and sold those off. Just finishing with Rebirth then plan to sell my PS5. Figured I’d keep the Series X but at this point think I’m going to sell that too and the few physical games I own for it and just go PC and Nintendo. I picked up a Legion GO (which I have since returned) but it introduced me to the PC world and man looking at a laptop, Series X and a PS5, a laptop (or decent Desktop and PC handheld) just keeps making more and more sense. Especially with GOG seeing that I own the files for the games I buy. I’ve already started to build up a good little GOG collection. At this point with emulation, whatever Nintendo puts out and everything available on PC, there is enough that interests me to play for 10 lifetimes without Xbox or PlayStation hardware. I’m new to Xbox this gen by the way.

Honestly at this point just subscribe to Gamefly.

You can get ALL NEW RELEASES, not just Microsoft games, plus can rent movies as well. Much, much better service than Price Increase Pass.

@Utena-mobile Yep. 12 month Xbox live card and Gamefly. Best gaming setup any gamer could ever ask for.

Such an overpriced mess now. Worst part it is based on a completely unsustainable business model. Look for $40-$50 monthly game pass before too long.

Nadella probably pushed hard for this cause of cloud based tech. He is insanely obsessed with anything cloud. Hope there is a way the board could vote him out. Be great day for Microsoft.

@Sifi Yea. But at least you can recoup your money by selling the game. Can't sell a game back to game pass.

@NEStalgia Maybe there is something to getting a desktop with a more mid-range GPU at $300 (which is more capable than a Series X or PS5 at the moment - assuming you go with a higher end CPU and RAM out of the gate) and then 4 - 5 years, getting another mid-range GPU at $300 and maybe some extra RAM.

It will cost less than buying a Microsoft console, a PlayStation console, and will still probably be more powerful and can still run all the games at a minimum of console settings.

I know PC gamers tend to want to go beyond console settings, but I am more looking at this from a cost of ownership/convenience of having one platform perspective.

I feel like, for gaming, CPUs and motherboards are the one thing where PCs have a gigantic advantage and could last 2 or 3 console generations. RAM and GPU are where the upgrades need to happen more often - but if you keep the RAM and GPU in check, you end up spending less in a 14 year period than owning a bunch of consoles at $500 - $600 per console.

Plus, you still have access to a massive back catalog of games (even if some of those games need community patches to work on the latest OS/DirectX versions).

@QuoVadis I loved PC gaming back in the day - and things were a heck of a lot more complicated back then as there really weren't that many games that had Graphical Presets like they do now. Drivers were incredibly finicky - updating them sometimes cause major problems. Plus, there was still very much "console games" and "PC games" back then.

Game Pad support also wasn't common either and made third-person action games a pain to play sometimes.

My work laptop can do light gaming (basically limited to about 720p and Low settings for anything modern - if it works at all). But, man, PC gaming is so much "easier" now than it was before.

Plus, there is no need for any of these stupid services.

@GamingFan4Lyf Yeah, excluding Zen5 as it's JUST announced basically, 300-350 basically buys top-end CPUs. And if on AM5, AMD committed to at least 2027 to make new CPUs for it, so you can get at least one more major upgrade from a board if, say, NPUs become critical for gaming over the next 3 years, and you get into DDR5. Intel's a bit tighter since they only do 2 years on a socket so upgrading just the CPU is almost non-existent. AM5 boards are still pretty pricy if you want to make sure it has PCIE5, but IMO it's worth it, because that guarantees the next 2 gens at least of GPUs work with it, and also nvme5 SSDs for the inevitable faster-than-PS5-storage needs next gen, but it's a debate of pay more now for future proofing, or go cheap and replace board later.

Just don't forget the hundred bucks for Windows. Satya needs your tithe no matter what way you go

Realistically a PS5 XSX is a 3060 equivalent. Realistically a 3060 outclasses current consoles a bit. 4060 even more so. The consoles aren't THAT beefy. And basically any CPU you can buy will run circles around the lousy APUs in these things. If you're not going for 4k ultra RT 120fps, the cheap cards really still shine. And remember the real cost of an XSX with decent storage is, what $650? More? I'm factoring in a 2TB drive in the PC pricing. I think if you want a "better than current console" and fairly overspec future proofed PC you can get away with $1300-1600 if you keep the GPU "a little better than current console" and upgrade later and don't need to "rip the consoles a new one" out of the gate. $1300-1600 sounds like a lot, but an XSX + PS5, plus extra 1TB HD each, plus the subscriptions to each.....is actually more expensive. Then you just throw an extra grand in it and rip the consoles a new one anyway.

Gamepass goes up by £2 a month, wild panic spreads and discussions of switching to PC. 😂

It’s been so weird to read this website over the past year. It’s either Xbox is dead and everyone is done, or they just had the best showcase ever and Xbox is back!
Price increases for anything suck, but Xbox is still my platform of choice.
I’m very excited for several upcoming releases, and get plenty of use out of my console and game pass subscription.

This is just the latest example of what I've been saying all along. The trouble with the Xbox brand isn't Xbox, the trouble is Microsoft itself. Things run much better when the Xbox division is allowed to handle themselves and make decisions themselves. This is the division that, for the most part, understands (or is supposed to understand) the console and video game market and the gamers who are interested in them. But because Microsoft is such a huge corporation, all they ultimately care about is increasing profits at all costs rather than satisfying the market they serve. It is apparent that they (Microsoft) have very little understanding of this market or of the gamers that they serve. This has been especially true of the petty bean counting Satya Nadella era. It is easy enough to point fingers at Phil since he is the head of Xbox or whatever, but the reality is Nadella is pulling the strings, and there isn't much Phil or Xbox fans like us can do about it. Pity, because Satya is going to eventually reap what he sows, and it sure is not going to be what he thinks in the long run. But hey, it's a complex issue to be sure, and that's just my take on it. I just the Xbox brand will survive in a way conductive to their own bloody customers...

@Nexozi That's a reduction. It's the parade of carefully worded half promises, reversals, empty and hollow statements, one after another. The customer-foucsed reason It's not "GP went up $2" It's "GP went up 25% in one year with no reason to believe this is the last increase within the next year, all while Phil and Sarah said no price increases or tiers were happening, demonstrating, again, their words carry no value."

Beyond that, Xbox is basically jumping up and down screaming into a megaphone that they see PC as their primary platform - between how they're treating GP PC vs console, their game release states (30fps on console, then updated later, etc.) Why would it be weird for people to consider jumping to PC after this news that pretty much announces MS encouraging jumping to PC (again?) My perspective is that in MS's view PC is their main platform, Xbox "exists" for those looking for a cheaper route.

And that's not necessarily a wrong route. I was PCMR back when Xbox OG came out and many PC gamers were livid with MS for destroying PC gaming by forcing their console onto everything, publishers, branding, controls, console-exclusives, ending PC series and studios (RIP Ensemble) etc, so it's fair if MS wants to focus on being a PC publisher with console being a weird adventure on the side. It's what they used to be until console briefly sidetracked them. Though MS's lack of interest in console leaves the console market in a dire place in Sony's hands mostly alone.

In my case it's the double whammy of all this plus Playstation abandoning PSVR2 pushing PCVR as the only viable path for a VR customer that kind of makes both platforms pushing me that direction. Ironically one of the flagship titles for PCVR is......MS Flight Sim.

@Medic_alert We thought we were having a joke when we drew up our annual Xbox Showcase bingo cards, until Microsoft started issuing us Cease and Desist letters.

"Just pick a plan and stick with it"

Ultimate. Why would you ever choose anything but GP Ultimate?

As a forever Ultimate member this matters very little to me. I don't really understand the confusion either.

@somnambulance Yeah that's exactly it. The lying. The fact that now anything they say is meaningless because they'll just directly lie to you shamelessly. No product or promise means anything because they keep proving they don't make good on their statements. That's the real killer.

I said in Jan or Feb that this is the end of Xbox as we know it and many, many horrific changes are coming as MS completely changes their console business. The TLDR is Phil Spencer would remain as CEO of Xbox only as a face as the business morphs into something completely unrecognizable, and not a console business at all.

I get wound up over stuff like this for a second, but then I step back, and remember this is still the beginning stages, and there's a lot worse to come than a couple tweaks to game pass.

This is a nothingburger compared to what Satya and Amy have scheduled for us in the next 4 years. Count to 10 and go have some fun playing some video games. I'm currently completely stuck trying to beat the Scadutree Avatar in Shadow of the Erdtree.

I don't like the idea of a game subscription. If I was stuck w a Series console, I'd probably get Game pass cause it's the thing to do. The best a monthly thing like this can do, imo, is stay out of my head. Changing prices makes me think, and reconsider, ya know?

@NEStalgia B-but 2025 XBOX will have so many exclusives!!!

I find that the value of game pass is kind of overstated and it all coming soon rather the what currently available. Like the EA games are nice, but it's largely sport's titles and EA titles are only available 3-6 months after release. I might find 1-2 titles out of 10 I check out that I actually want to play. Most of the "good titles" are time consuming and are often better to just buy rather then try to finish it on game pass. For me the best part of game pass is to check out the full games and see if I actually like the game. Then it's can I finish the whole game in roughly a day, then I'll just play it on game pass. If I like it, but I'll take over a week or so of playing to finish it, perhaps I wait until it goes on sale and just buy the game. I thought Redfall and Atomic Heart would be good games, after seeing them on game pass I realized they were a hard pass.

Phil, and in fact much of the leadership, need to go. Indeed, Microsoft needs to make a decision about the continued existence of Xbox, because at this point, they're just getting on everyone's nerves. You get the feeling that if Microsoft ever did decide to leave the console space, it would be announced via a short, vague press release, probably the day after Phil gives an interview assuring the fanbase that everything is fine and Xbox will be around forever.

@IOI most exclusives are heading to other platforms? Really? Either you’ve got a crystal ball and can see into the future or you’re completely over reacting.

I kind of regret buying into this generation, but it got its use during Covid. Honestly, I think just steam deck and pc next for me. Kind of tired of Xbox, and if I really want to, I can do game pass pc. Though, I probably won’t. Goodbye Xbox… we had a nice run.

I can see how it's still worth $20 for Ultimate for many people but I'm tired of the changes. I just dropped down to Core & got 3 years of cards for Core for $140 total ($4 a month/12 cents a day). I'll buy discs and a la cart digital games on sales now and still have the same experience. I'm done with the shenanigans by Microsoft. Mid 2027 should be about time or after next gen Xbox will be known/available and see if Series consoles will be my last Xbox.

@Jenkinss what means of torment do you imagine for us the next few years?

Sony abandoning VR had largely pushed me into planning a PC migration anyway along with Xbox chaos, but I admit after the showcase I briefly thought it was maybe the wrong plan.... Nope, is a good plan.

@Utena-mobile It's a good analogy because we'll keep getting routinely effed the whole time.

I just hope they don’t force multi-month/yearly subs. Or start with GP-only exclusives. I don’t trust they won’t - they are now in the profit-turning phase and there are no bad ideas for them - even if it makes no sense for their most loyal users.

Seems pretty obvious to me that people higher up have started calling the shots ahead of Phil

@somnambulance
Mainly for me it is that I would not be surprised if the news tomorrow said series consoles are Microsoft’s last under the tv home console hardware and it’s that uncertainty and lack of big AAA quality games that have lead me to make PlayStation my lead platform now.
Don’t get me wrong both of them are misfiring this generation in their own ways.

But I can’t keep investing in an eco system and digital games when there may well not be a next generation Xbox home console and also not a streaming cloud system device only, I just have no confidence in what Microsoft say do.

For all we know there may well be no next generation home console that downloads digital games and plays discs.
Could be handheld instead.
Could be cloud streaming only.
Could be using cloud streaming to boost games.

I just want a full next generation hardware home console that has full power in the box, no cloud to help make it better and also fully download games and a disc option.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we don’t get that from Microsoft or they leave all together.

Thank god for Nintendo and Sony for our next generation full hardware future.

@NEStalgia
We all thinking this is bad sometimes but you want to look at new cars now.
You buy subscriptions for getting the air conditioning etc to work paying a monthly subscription fee.

Then if you sell the car the subscription goes with you to your next car.

The ducking world is going subscription mad and just making things confusing.

Whilst everyone can. Find a cheapish 12 month code online. I've just bought 12 months for £100. Don't sit on your hands.

It's all nonsense. MS have continuously pushed the boundaries of customers good will. Payed early access, price increases and now taking day one games away. They are on the cusp of crossing the red line of price versus value. And the moniker 'best deal in gaming' doesn't hold much water.

@themcnoisy
If they bring say about 3 top end AAA games at top quality per year then it’s not bad.
But Microsoft haven’t done that yet, so for me the value is not really there.

I think the since the series x released 4 years this November. I would say Halo infinite, Forza Horizon 5 and I guess Starfield have been the only top new AAA games for me and that’s questionable really and that’s over 4 years nearly.

@OldGamer999 I work in used cars and these recent sub services are a nightmare. We used to be able to list cars festures 99% accurately. It's now a toss up for certain car makers as the services can and have been switched off.

@themcnoisy
Wow good luck, yeah it seems a nightmare.
I just bought a brand new Honda Civic sport 1st March 2024 and that no subscription so I got all the features I wanted with the car.

I got into Xbox this generation after becoming disenfranchised with Sony, and it really does feel like there’s no real plan. Maybe there’s some behind the scenes stuff going on that’s preventing that from happening, like infighting or the like, but the management needs to get their act together. I don’t like Sony’s plan but at least it’s a plan.

@OldGamer999 Civics are great! Great pick. I'm in a 2 litre GR sport corolla. I'm due an upgrade early next year and was tempted to get an R Line next.

@Jireland92
That is where I am with Xbox and I have a PS5 as well.
I’m just so unsure about Xbox future hardware plan, no matter what Xbox tell us.

@WhiteRabbit Im not expecting anything.

@OldGamer999 for what it’s worth I don’t regret my purchase of a Series S. I have more than enough games to play on that thing, at the end of the day the frustrations you have with a company should come second to how much you enjoy their product. Nintendo frustrates the hell out of me too, doesn’t mean I don’t love the Switch.

@OldGamer999 Wait, wait....WHAT?! Features, subscriptions, switching them off....WHAT?! Cars with "No subscriptions?" What? Seriously, WTF? I have no idea what you're talking about and all I'm thinking is I have no idea what this is but if I ever hear anything like that I'll just smash windows and take what I want. Does that make me a real American now?

@NEStalgia
You winding me up 🤣
You must me remember I’m UK and things like this take ages to come here and get going to the general public.

If I didn't need GP (Core) for the ONE game I'm playing right now, I wouldn't have it at all.

@Jireland92
Some of it is company frustration but yes they all frustrate me.
But it’s more what is the future hardware Microsoft if there is any, I can’t trust that moving forward spending on eco systems, subscriptions and digital games.

At least with Sony and Nintendo I’m getting home console future hardware and works full power out of the box.

Absolutely god knows what Microsoft might cook up, remember they did say a new console that also uses cloud tech to improve performance.
That sucks I want the best performance from the hardware and no need to rely on the internet.

Microsoft needs to send clearer messages and not lie all the time.
They need positivity and brand momentum and security for Xbox, like the other two have.
Not half arsed comments and mind changing.

Timing wise my subscription ended yesterday I had returned to Xbox after years away and skipping the Xbox One generation. As of now I have little motivation to renew as the whole appeal of Gamepass was day one exclusives included in the price now you actually have to pay extra for those. In all honesty I expected it sooner rather than later but the fact they claimed only several months ago that this exact case wouldn't happen then it really shows they really over estimated the growth they would get by including all Bethesda and Activision-Blizzard games at that same price point. Eventually all of the developments of those games will be costing more than the revenue that Gamepass brings in if they don't already. They don't seem to have had a long term business plan on this other than hope they some how get millions of more subscribers just because they have all of the games.

@OldGamer999 I get that, but I’ve been through all this before. I remember the Wii U and early PS3 era where the confidence in Sony and Nintendo was at an all time low. Both companies bounced back and Microsoft can too, they just need a plan to get them back on track. Plus at the end of the day we don’t know the future of any given ecosystem. I get not wanting to support something that looks like it’s going downhill, especially in this economy, but at the end of the day al we should focus on are the games. Is there a game you want to play just play it on whatever you want.

I get that licenses cost money and that profit needs to be made, but after being a subscription customer (so the prime sucker because I found out about all the conversion tricks too late and didn't use Xbox Live anyway) I'm out once the price hike hits. I wanted to set it and forget it for at least 12 months...but it keeps changing. Might as well as go get netflix subscription (or actually it would pay for my Kadon subscription). I'll just stick with Nintendo and maybe sub game pass on a month of a good game coming out.

@Jireland92
It’s not about Microsoft bouncing back with Xbox like Sony and Nintendo did, that’s because they wanted to.
It’s about do Microsoft want future Xbox console hardware and the answer is looking like they may not.

This is Microsoft a trillion dollar company who do what they want and pulling hardware from Xbox is nothing to them. So what you gonna do if they make no more Xbox hardware. What hardware in the future are you going to play your current games on etc.
They may say use the cloud streaming service and what a load of ball that is.

@Zenszulu "long term business plan"

That's a huge part of it but I think only one part of it. They needed more games to keep the subs appealing, and they absolutely could have bought in studios to keep that need up and manage the service. And less than ironically, studios like Tango making smaller viral hits to give the service shots of relevance were a huge key to doing so.

The problem isn't so much that they didn't plan for GP. The problem isn't that they bought studios. The problem is WHO they bought and why. They didn't buy ABK to get content to fit into Game Pass to better sustain subscription numbers. And ABK being overwhelmingly financially tied up in generating one single game annually was a very costly purchase, that served almost no value to sustaining the GP service.

What went wrong is they bought ABK, a MASSIVE money sink into a single game that doesn't really help their sub, because the only real goal was to tap into the mobile gaming market that's worth 50x what all of Xbox is worth, and King was up for sale. So they bought King to get MICROSOFT (not Xbox) into the mobile gaming revenue cut to better level their playing field with rival APPLE (not Sony), on a quarterly earnings level. Having to absorb Activision and CoD is a side effect generated by doing so, and if doing so undermines the entire fundamental business stability of Game Pass and collapses it, doesn't matter, MSFT now tapped a key revenue stream controlled by AAPL, and it only cost them Game Pass to do it.

That's the subtext everyone misses. We're quick to blame Xbox for messing up, and they have, but that's only part of what happened. The real story is that Xbox was offered as sacrifice and Xbox's customers as collateral in order to buy King to tap into a market Apple controlled and MS was missing out. If Game Pass were the business plan, ABK would not have been their acquisition. It's a bad fit for GP, and as we see, fundamentally breaks the model. But that wasn't the goal. Mobile was the goal, and Microsoft got it. If it broke Game Pass and the console business so be it. It's worth more.

I cancelled game pass a while back. Higher pricing again and no first day games. I have not touched my Xbox in a year. I have owned a Xbox since the original. I was a beta tester for Xbox Live. 360 was one of my favorite consoles of all time. Honestly I am thinking of dumping my Xbox. MS is lost in my opinion. They seem to be destroying good studios. Raising prices even as sales drop which will eventually snowball. I am personally tired of paying more for less with everything because of company greed. Phil Spencer may be a great guy but honestly MS if they want to remain in the console business needs to do something different.

I think Sony is starting to get lost and is pricing themselves out of the gaming market and is getting some what lost too. I see a resurgence of people going to the pc if something is not done.. I think gaming hit its peak and there is little growth and may be on a downturn.

These companies are squeezing the gamer too much. There is a point where people say enough is enough.

@OldGamer999

I agree 100 percent.
That is a good point. It is hard to invest in digital content if you do not know if there is a next gen system.

I have been saying for years I think MS is trying to get out of the console business. I think they want to return to software.

I think MS was also looking at game pass as a investment in the future but got lost.

Get that cloud stuff out of here. This is another area MS got lost. Should have followed Googles exit out of Cloud based games. Internet is not there in the USA and wont be for a long time.

@Jireland92

I am not sure MS can anymore . It is hard hard to turn a ship this size around. They keep buying more and more without fixing the core problems making it harder and harder. Firing people and making less quality games.

When Bungie gave away their top game Halo just to get away from MS it should have been a signal. Look what MS did to Halo. I worry about MS destroying Bethesda now. I mean look at the last two games.

Nintendo nor Sony got this low. Nintendo always had quality games.

I hope MS does turn it around, competition is great in gaming. It keeps moving technology ahead and better and better games.

It is not about the console to me its about quality games. I am not a fanboy of systems, I am a fanboy of gaming.

@shred5
Could not agree more it’s a little like they are lost and not sure what way to turn which leaves us in a dizzy spell not knowing what to do for now and in the future.
So now they have lost my series x being my main console so the 30% they get from third party titles is going to Sony and probably my GPU no more after March 2025.
That’s not a business looking to continue with home console hardware future to me. It’s a business very smartly looking to move away from hardware and go all PC and publishing on other consoles.

@VoidPunk Not only has Xbox 1st party failed to produce, but the 3rd party stuff they have been adding lately has been subpar, to be kind. This reminds me of when F2P games realize they aren't going to increase the number of people playing their game so its time to milk the die hard fans. Xbox fans, get your udders ready.

@shred5 Agree with all your points on the industry at large, MS getting lost, and Sony pricing themselves out and getting lost as well. Although on the PC side it's not entirely sunnier, where Nvidia is almost a defacto monopoly on GPUs and we've seen prices reach the stratosphere and Nvidia pretty much telling everyone, including mfr partners to #dealwithit. $700 XX80 cards became $1200 XX80 cards. We'll ignore XX90, that's a different product half in a different market, sort of replacing dual card SLI, and competing in the professional/productivity market. But $600, 800, 1000 (formerly 1200) normal cards....and it'll only go up because Jensen declared that GPUs should cost more than consoles.

Meanwhile devs can't make a profit on games that push said hardware. The whole industry priced itself out of practicality.

Though I also think nearly EVERYBODY gets Microsoft (corp, not Xbox's) strategy wrong. The obsession with cloud was NEVER about cloud. It was about a backdoor in the the massive money pile that is mobile gaming. Cloud was their way to get their games on mobile and tap the bigger market. It's also why the push for cloud vanished the moment ABK talks started. They were getting King. They were getting mobile. They didn't need cloud anymore.

And with MS corp pushing their synergy onto Xbox I can 99% guarantee you exactly where they will get lost next gen already: They're going to make the next Xbox entirely about pushing AI/Copilot into the experience, and possibly their Qualcomm partnership. I gua-ran-tee you.

Xbox is on its death bed. Gamepass numbers are not rising. Console sales are abysmal.

The next gen XBOX will probably sell about half as this gen.

I love Xbox and will ride it out until the end, but I know it's breathing its final breaths as an ecosystem.

Console > Standard

@OldGamer999 I’m probably just going to go into PC gaming. I bought the series S largely as a stepping stone to get to PC eventually.

The whole thing is tiring and has lost its allure. Doubt I will buy another console of any type.

honestly pretty tired of the shenanigans. I don't really care about the price increase just the constant stupid flow of bad messaging. they don't even know what their going to do tomorrow.

@NEStalgia

Nvidia is a huge problem. They are turning there backs on gamers again and chasing AI profits just like they did during crypto mining craze. Sad part is gamers got them to where they are. ATI/AMD are good alternatives. When AI bubble burst like crypto they will come crawling back with there tails between their legs. Gamers should tell the to go themselves.

@shred5 Is infuriating they're now the largest market cap in Earth, even bigger than Microsoft and Apple. All on the AI chips. And Jensen already said they're not a graphics company but an accelerated computing company and the graphics thing was just "a strategic thing" Honestly graphics counts for so little of their revenue these days I doubt they even come crawling back again. They don't care anymore.

The problem is that even at their obscene prices, amd just follows in lock step, and at the same price point, Nvidia still ends up the better value because and at the same price point they're usually faster, cooler, and less power other than 4k raster with no rt. Intel is the last best hope for sane pricing and that's just a depressing comment.

@NEStalgia

Not to mention neither company actually makes anything anymore.

Intel is the only one left with any Fabs left.

$20 a month knowing that they have not only a killer lineup of 1st party titles coming, but also knowing they secure a ton of great 3rd party games is not a big ask. Everyone of us use DoorDash or hit up fast food more than once a month, so if $20 is pinching you just rearrange other extras in your life.

@shred5 Yeah, that's the other ridiculous thing. I don't even know the story of how AMD lost their fabs. And even Intel mostly just contracts TSMC for most of their chips, not even sure what their fabs even make now. How exactly did we end up with basically 4 companies that design chips, but only one company in Taiwan that actually makes them?

We talk about gaming being broken but I think gaming is a symptom. The whole tech industry is broken.

@NEStalgia

Yep

What a security risk with all these chips being made in Taiwan.
If China took them over what would people do without their cellphones, computers, tablets, gaming systems, and even cars. We would be dead in the water and China would rule the world.

@Utena-mobile
$20 can not get me day one releases and the same large category of games gamepass provides. On steam it can get me a lot but it will very greatly in both quality and diversity